Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[John Dolva]

Yes but nowhere as precice as Glenn. He's a master. Maybe one difference is that (and I'm going by the photo) is that he may not have a first hand knowledge of Swedish as spoken around Stockholm in the 60's. That doesn't mean he isn't completely aware of that, but I basically grew up in the street and Swedish like all languages, perhaps Australian more than most, has undercurrents *and regional dialects*. So there may be idioms that I may be able to offer an alternative to. Swedish, as all languages, has evolved. I'm a child of Palmes Sweden.

edit typo(s) add*

and because of family an inevitable smattering of Norwegian, Danish, Icelandic, German, the germanic languages, English, French (which I failed miserably because of total lack of interest) and with persons fluent in the other scandinavian languages close at hand. But even there, Annti trumps. One really funny phenomena is the swede not understanding the dane but the dane understanding the swede ''enigma''. I wonder why that is?

for example I have no idea what mfv or whatever means. We had different endings then but I think all is needed is a prompt and I'll get it without having to expend any brain power on it.

Edited March 12, 2010 by John Dolva

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO JUNKKARENIN:

BARB wrote: What I find "offensive," Pam, are unsubstantiated claims that have the potential to alter our history and throw pursuit of the truth about our president's assassination off into fantasy land. What can be checked out, must be checked out. You have posted that you are trained as an historian, why would you even consider settling for anything less? And if those claims fail to check out at every turn, that casts real doubt on the veracity of the claim overall, imo. Also "offensive" - in my opinion - is the very notion that anyone would try to block and discount research into such claims.

THE 'RESEARCH' BEGAN, AND HAS LARGELY CONTINUED TO BE, PERSONAL ATTACKS, REPEATING FALSEHOODS, AND CLAIMING ABSURDITIES. THEY PASSED ALONG THEIR 'FINDINGS' TO OTHERS.

TEAM McADAMS' EARLY "RESEARCH" INTO "CLAIMS":

a) That newspaper reports of Baker getting research grants were lies – refuted in debate—accusations still being repeated a decade later

That Dr. Sherman was not a cancer researcher –refuted—no apology for false assertion by McAdams

c) Baker never did any cancer research after high school –refuted—no apology for false assertion from team McAdams

d) That Baker went straight from high school to New Orleans to do secret research there

with no college training in between –refuted—no apology for false assertion from team McAdams

e) Baker claimed she was recruited by the CIA in Indiana – denied as book error, with provenance, written by co-author – accusation still being repeated

f) Dr. Canute Michaelson, who sponsored Baker’s science research when Baker first entered high school, involved her in Ochsner's Get-Castro project in 1963 – refuted – accusation still repeated

g) Baker and Oswald planned to meet in the resort of Cancun, which didn't exist in 1963 -- though denied as a book error inserted by another person, with provenance, accusation continues to be repeated for a decade

h) Baker was a mere clerk for Reily's –refuted— no apology for false assertion from team McAdams

i) Robert Baker joined Mormon Church first, Baker followed. Bakeer denied– refuted with church documents – no apology for false assertion from team McAdams

j) “Robert Baker” (Baker’s 2nd wife, posing as Robert Baker onlne) told J. Baker to go to New Orleans and he would later meet her there –refuted through letters proving opposite – no apology for false assertion by team McAdams

k) “Robert Baker” 9Baker’s 2nd wife, posing as Robert Baker online) reported the Bakers returned to Florida in July, not September – refuted with letters, checks and bank documents – no apology for having accepted false information from false informant when she was unmasked: team McAdams continued to keep the false information online as if it were true

l) Robert Baker's 2nd wife reported Robert Baker was only gone a few days at a time while they lived in New Orleans –refuted with documents and letters – no apology from team McAdams when Dr. Howard Platzman unmasked “Robert . Baker” as baker’s 2nd wife, who married him in 1988 and knew nothing of the matter. Mr. Baker himself refused comment on (j), (k) and (l).

m) Baker claimed to have spent nights in hotels with Oswald when Oswald was home every night with Marina -- almost all hotel meetings were afternoon meetings. Brought out email from Mary Ferrell repeating the same thing, when witnesses were present when Baker told Ferrell that Oswald spent almost all nights with his wife. Team McAdams still brings out this accusation using the emal from Ferrell, who is deceased.

m) Baker has no witnesses except people who lie, are Mafia, are in jail, or their whole family is lying –

n) Baker's family members are all liars, as well --her mother, sister, daughter and son have lied about her disclosures to them that she knew Oswald -- disclosures made years before she spoke out publically –Baker : “Besides written statements by my children and mother, there is the Green Glass incident, where over 35 people – all Mormons—heard J Baker tell them that she and Oswald had been friends in New Orleans and rode streetcars and buses together: a green glass Oswald gave to her was in danger of getting broken at the party and was rescued, prompting the revelation spontaneously..

n) Baker is insane – repeated without apologies

-- refuted with fully documented batteries of tests conducted after a concussion; Baker was employed as a mental health counseler by the State of Florida, as a counselor by a residential treatment center, and also worked as a secretary for Dr. James Stuart, a psychiatrist at Hauser Clinic in the Houston area, which required passing the MMPI in 1981. She passed the updated MMPI II in 2002.

o) Baker did not in the slightest resemble Marina Oswald -- stated only one or two photos were presented – which was refuted (and most people say the resemblance exists, plus the fact that both women were the same height, had the same hair color, the same body build, and blue eyes)

p) newspaper articles about Baker were just blurb -- puff pieces and full of lies that 15-16-17-and18-year old Baker gave to fawning reporters -- yet the articles describe her meeting with world famed scientists, the nation’s most elite cancer research scientists, Nobel prize winners, etc....

After ten years, all that is still being brought up are ramifications of the same old, tired, refuted items on this list.

For example, Barb stated "The Indiana Biological Association" did not exist, though it's mentioned in a newspaper article and in a personal letter from an American Cancer Society area leader The association was not officially found in the registry of science organizations in Indiana, therefore, according to Barb, it did not exist, even though Baker provided documents showing that the National Science Foundation allowed loose organizations to form to help sponsor young science students without registration.

Barb says Baker’s cancer research paper for the Indiana Academy of Sciences was never published (though we have the abstract, thanks to Barb) as if this is some kind of failing on Baker’s part.

The paper did not get into the journal, though the abstract did, because Baker’s parents withdrew her from St. Francis suddenly, as she wanted to become a NUN. The paper was left behind and did not get sent to the journal as planned.

Barb recently said there is an undisclosed, private message about Baker on the records at St. Francis that she intends to get her hands on. She wants to read the confidential message there.

What she will find is a notation that Baker wanted to become a NUN and was forcibly removed from St. Francis College by her parents, who objected. This is the same person (Baker) who wanted to be a nun, that Barb accused of having lied to everybody about, as if Baker had no morals. Baker later became an atheist, however, in reaction to being forcibly removed from St. Francis, which shook her faith in God for years and made it easier for her to later date non-Catholics and to plan to elope with a non-Catholic in defiance of her family’s wishes.

The above is the quality of 'research' team McAdams has been pursuing.

This is their 'research' for ten years.

They now bring their accusations against Baker – long in the tooth as the accusations are -- to the Education Forum, just when Dr. Fetzer has attempted to publish information Baker wished to communicate as a witness, for she am not getting any younger and lives in exile due to death threats.

Barb and her newsgroup make light of that.

Judyth writes: “Barb and her team, who have repeated countless lies about me, also say that nobody is bothering me and nobody ever did. . The auto accidents, hospitalizations, robberies, burglaries, cyber-stalking and threats are just coincidences, or she is making these things up. Barb described my exile in Europe as ‘globe-trotting.’ “

Concerning political asylum, Barb says I should just go back to America and shut up and be a grandma and enjoy my grandchildren.

Think what that sounds like to a person whose family has sacrificed so much to make sure I can stay safe overseas, far from the constant harassment that occurred in the US, to say nothing of outright threats and debilitating events...

I wish Barn would go and enjoy her grandchildren, and allow others to review my information without her interference. She’s kept at it for years, though she never met me or s much as wrote me an email.

I offer evidence of my commitment to the truth, to history, and to Lee Oswald by virtue of sheer persistence, despite almost ceaseless mockery and criticism from barb and Team McAdams. I continue to harbor faith in good people, whom I believe will come to realize that I am telling the truth.

I thank everyone who will try to ignore her ad hominem attacks and just look at the evidence Dr. Fetzer is attempting to present on this forum. If you want to read biased attacks against my character, go to the McAdams forum and read fiction.

[Jack White]

My question: Why would ANYONE speak to a total stranger (?) in a FOREIGN LANGUAGE?

Forget an exact translation. I would consider such a person weird.

Jack,

That was one of the questions Mary Ferrell asked Judyth too. Mary thought it extremely bizarre ... especially for a young girl in a strange city...

Barb :-)

Mary took a course in Russian so she could translate Russian documents. She learned to read

Russian well...but COULD NEVER LEARN TO UNDERSTAND NOR SPEAK the language. As a result

of her study, she said it was absurd that LHO learned to speak Russian BY READING BOOKS as

the WC alleged. Mary's IQ far exceeded either LHO or JVB. Mary had a photographic memory,

and was able to reconstruct what any document said merely by reading it.

Agreed, Jack. Mary did not believe Judyth could think in Russian ... here is the passage from her e-mail about Judyth in Dec 2001 where she comments on her own training in Russian, Judyth telling her she was thinking in Russian, and the comment about why Judyth would speak to a strange man too ... all in the same paragraph:

From Mary Ferrell e-mail, December 12, 2001:

I asked her why she would use the Russian language to a man

she didn't know standing in a line at the post office in Louisiana.

She claimed that Dr. Oschner and his colleagues had insisted that she

study Russian and become fluent in the language. She never gave a

coherent answer about why she was instructed to learn Russian. She

did ramble off several portions of sentences that did not make sense.

She said, in effect, that she was "thinking" in Russian. (I studied

three years of High School Latin, four years of High School Spanish

and, following the assassination, I used every available text book,

audio aide and visual aides to intensively study Russian for one year.

I was only able to think in English at the end of that year.)

Bests,

Barb :-)

Thanks for the quotes from Mary. Sounds exactly what she told me

except not in the context of MVB, but LHO.

Did Mary say more about JVB that you have saved?

Yes, Jack, she did ... and I will post something for you here. In December 2001, Mary had had enough of Judyth. And she wrote and sent an email with an attachment to several people. There was a hue and cry from Judyth and her team that Mary had not written it, that someone had intercepted what Mary really wrote and switched it out for something else, or that someone else had commandeered her computer ... the long rambles we've seen here pale in comparison to what went on. Ultimately, Paul Seaton, undertook looking at the whole magilla back in 2008 and with the help of some screen shots from Debra Conway's computer, and most importantly, with the document and being able to get down into what all data had been recorded in the bowels of the file as Mary had worked on it, he was able to show, without a doubt, that Mary wrote this document, worked on it for several hours, he could even tell how many times it had been save along the way, and that it was then sent out from her computer.

And I have all of that information should Judyth decide to try the same excuses and allegations again. I hope she will spare us, as there is no doubt this came from Mary, and there are those of us who heard Mary make comments about Judyth in person after this. It was all very upsetting to Mary and she didn't want to even hear the name anymore.

John McA was one of the original recipients Mary sent it to ... he asked Mary if she wanted/if he could post this. He has posted that email in the past ... in which Mary tells him, yes, post it.

Subject: Mary Ferrell on Judyth

From: john.mcad...@marquette.edu (John McAdams)

Date: 12/12/01 10:18 PM Eastern Standard Time

Message-id: <3c181cef.33104434@news.newsguy.com>

The following was sent as an e-mail attachment from Mary Ferrell to me

and a few other people this afternoon. It is posted here with her

explicit permission.

Wednesday, December 12, 2001

The last thing I would ever want to do is harm another person

by my careless words or deeds. I have tried to refrain from talking

about Judyth Vary Baker and her alleged association with Lee Harvey

Oswald for more than a year now - afraid that I might say or do

something that would hurt her or her family. I have been uncertain as

to her motives and preferred to believe that she was delusional and,

although I believed she had actually known and probably worked for a

short time with Lee Harvey Oswald, her "affair" with Lee Oswald was

all something she dreamed up.

Judyth came to my home more than a year ago, late in the

afternoon in November 2000. A charming young woman named Debbee

Reynolds accompanied Judyth. Debbee was and is an employee of

American Airlines. Debbee had managed to obtain free transportation

on American Airlines for Judyth to come from Layfayette, Louisiana, to

visit her sister, Mrs. Tony (Lynda) Bauer, in Dallas.

One of the first things Judyth did when entering my home was

look at a set of the 26 volumes in shelves adjacent to my front door.

Judyth said, "Oh, is that what they look like? I've seen pictures of

them but I've never actually seen them before. I've never read

anything. I just know everything that happened because I knew Lee."

She seated herself on the floor close to my feet and started

telling all about her wonderful love affair with Lee Harvey Oswald.

She told how she met him in April of 1963 in a New Orleans or

Metairie, Louisiana, post office, while standing at the General

Delivery window. She said she and her soon-to-be husband, Robert

Baker, had chosen to write to each other through General Delivery

using code names. One of the names used was similar to Rorke and

either she or Lee misunderstood and thought the name being used was

Alexander Rorke. Judyth said it had been planned that Alexander Rorke

would pick up Lee Oswald in a plane in some part of the Yucatan,

Mexico. She was so startled that she dropped a rolled-up newspaper

that was under her arm and Lee Oswald stooped and retrieved it. When

he handed it to her, she thanked him in Russian.

I asked her why she would use the Russian language to a man

she didn't know standing in a line at the post office in Louisiana.

She claimed that Dr. Oschner and his colleagues had insisted that she

study Russian and become fluent in the language. She never gave a

coherent answer about why she was instructed to learn Russian. She

did ramble off several portions of sentences that did not make sense.

She said, in effect, that she was "thinking" in Russian. (I studied

three years of High School Latin, four years of High School Spanish

and, following the assassination, I used every available text book,

audio aide and visual aides to intensively study Russian for one year.

I was only able to think in English at the end of that year.)

When talking about Alexander Rorke, she said she was to meet

Lee and Rorke in Cancun, Mexico, following the assassination. She had

a book that she claimed David Ferrie had given to her to use as her

pass into Eglin Air Force Base in Florida where she was to be put

aboard a plane and flown to Mexico to meet with Lee. "Eglin Air Force

Base" was stamped on the spine of the book.

I questioned Judyth about her first meeting with Oswald and

the exact date it occurred. She claimed it was within a day or two of

his arrival in New Orleans in April 1963. She also claimed she

accompanied him to visit his father's grave but never gave an exact

location of the grave. (According to the Warren Commission's

investigation, Lee visited his aunt, Mrs. Arthur A. P. Alice Barre, on

St. Charles Avenue in New Orleans, to learn where his father was

buried. Judyth did not answer me when I asked if she was with him

when he visited his aunt.)

At one point, Judyth said, "I can tell you where Lee was on

the two occasions when you don't know where he was." I asked her how

she knew that there were two periods when I didn't know where he was.

She stuttered a bit and finally said that Martin Shakleford had

questioned her from my chronologies. However, she never gave any

explanation of when those two periods were nor where she knew that Lee

was during the two periods.

She said 60 Minutes had intended to film her story but some

unnamed persons had stopped 60 Minutes. She seemed to blame David

Lifton because she said Lifton's book would not be published if her

book were published. She seemed to think Debra Conway had some part

in her dismissal from 60 Minutes because Debra would no longer have

Lancers if Judyth's book were published.

Judyth said the most ironic thing about the whole thing was

that CBS made the decision not to use her in a film on Lee's birthday,

October 18th, a month before her visit to me.

She begged me to help her get her book published. I told her

I would have to read the book first but finally agreed to write a note

to a friend of mine in New York, Frank Weimann of the Literary Group.

On November 27th, I wrote a short note to Frank Weimann on a scrap of

paper. I have since learned that Judyth has circulated Xerox copies

of that note as proof that I endorse her story.

My note read: "Nov. 27, 2000 Dear Frank, I think you

should take a look at this woman's story. I believe she is credible

and I believe her story will sell. Best regards, Mary Ferrell" I

later learned that she placed a small photo of herself in a pose that

looked very much like an early photo of Marina on the note before she

sent it to Frank. I later asked Frank to make a copy of Judyth's

book for me since she refused to let me look at the book. I have

never seen any portion of the book and I now have no desire to see it.

She and Howard Platzman immediately started sending notes to

Frank Weimann wanting to know when he was going to sell the book,

apparently wanting advances. Frank finally sent the whole book back

to them and refused to work with them. Frank apologized to me and I

told him I was surprised that he had tolerated them as long as he had.

Frank told me that the book would have sold but needed rewriting,

which they refused to do.

Until now, I have discussed this matter with only four

people: Robert Chapman, David Lifton, Debra Conway and Louis Girdler.

They have all kept my disclosures in confidence because I begged them

not to do anything that might cause Judyth to harm herself.

It has now reached the point where I believe Howard Platzman

and Judyth are using what they think is a form of blackmail to prod me

into endorsing Judyth and her entire story. Howard wrote a long email

message to me indicating that I must go on camera or write a message

saying that I believed Judyth's story or I would be branded a demented

old woman. Judyth came to visit me, unannounced, Monday night and she

said almost the same words that Howard had used. Then she brought up

a name from my past - the name of a woman I had not even thought of in

almost 50 years. I asked her where she got that name and she said,

"Carol Anne told me." I immediately said to my son, "Judyth is

leaving. Will you see her to the door." Jimmy escorted her to the

door. I called Carol Anne and told her what had happened. Carol Anne

became almost hysterical and said, "Mother, you know I never said

that." I explained that I had not believed she had said it. Carol

Anne said, "Mother, those people act like they are crazy." My son

Jimmy later said he thinks they act like they might be dangerous.

I want to make it clear that I have never believed Judyth's

"story." I have believed that she knew Lee Harvey Oswald, either as a

co-worker or as an employee she remembered after the assassination. I

have NEVER believed the story of the mad, passionate love affair. I

can account for almost every minute of Lee's life from the time he

joined the Marine Corps until the day of his death. There was

absolutely no time for nights of passionate love and Russian poetry

reading. I do not believe that they had sex in the back of trucks in

Adrian Alba's garage. At the very most, Judyth knew Lee a total of

less than five months. She claims that she talked to Lee just two

days before the assassination by way of a Mafia wire-service phone

line. I do not believe this.

Judyth claims that Lee introduced her to David Ferrie. She

claims that Ferrie introduced her to "Sparky" Rubenstein. She claims

that Lee told her that Carlos Marcello called Jack Ruby when Lee was a

child in Fort Worth and asked Ruby to keep an eye on Lee. She claims

that she last saw Ruby in New Orleans in June 1963.

She claims that as soon as she arrived in New Orleans, in

April 1963, Dr. Oschner got her an apartment where prostitutes were

living and the place was immediately raided and everyone taken to jail

except Judyth. She says Lee got her another apartment. They then

lived close to each other and would ride the bus from Reily out to the

end of the line and ride back so they could sit together.

Her first job, after arriving in New Orleans, was as a

waitress in a hamburgher restaurant in Metairie near Carlos Marcello's

Town and Country Motel. She speaks very familiarly of Carlos Marcello

and says that Lee acted as a courier for Carlos and Lee's uncle, Dutz

Murret.

Her story of Lee's reading to her from the small gray book,

The Queen of Spaces, did startle me because I had seen either this

book or a replica of it in Ruth Paine's living room two or three years

following the assassination. Judyth claimed that the library in

Lafayette, Louisiana, did not have the 26 volumes of the Warren

Commission's work and did not have a copy of The Queen of Spades.

When I asked her if she had tried the university library where she

worked, she said they had nothing. Louis Girdler called the

university library and talked to a woman named Sandy who worked there

and they had everything on the assassination and also had a copy of

Pushkin's play, The Queen of Spades.

Judyth tells a fantastic story about the man who wrote

Andersonville - MacKinlay Kantor. She claims that she would walk with

him through a garden, holding a tape recorder and Kantor would dictate

into the recorder. She says that Kantor "fell in love" with her. She

claims she was still a teenager when this happened.

She claims she wrote to Bertrand Russell about her reluctance

to have sex with Lee because she and he were both married at the time.

She says that Russell wrote to her that she must not let anything hold

her back if they were in love. They must have sex. Joan Mellen was

married to Ralph Schoenman for a number of years. Schoenman was the

top aide to Bertrand Russell during the last years of Russell's life.

Schoenman told Joan that during the period Judyth claims this happened

Russell was not even able to read his own mail and he NEVER wrote such

a letter.

I could go on and on for pages about her truly incredible

stories. I just want to emphasize that I have never told her I

believed she and Lee had a romantic relationship. I have assured her

that I do believe she knew him. I can't explain her knowledge about

the book I saw in Ruth Paine's house between Christmas and New Year's

of 1967. I believe the little book was unique and I know that Judyth

described it perfectly. With few exceptions, Judyth's accounts of her

relationship with Lee could have been concocted from things that have

been published. She has repeatedly said that she loves me because I

want to clear Lee's name and reputation. I have only said that I do

not believe that Lee planned, executed and covered up the

assassination alone. I am not at all certain that Lee's name and

reputation can be "cleared."

There is more ... regarding an incident that happened in April 2002.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Thanks for the information from Mary. It sounds exactly like her!

Jack

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO JUNKKARINEN, PART 2:

There has been so much more that has happened...

Attached are some photos...

The usual bank of metal P.O. boxes...

Mine had the door ripped off...

Postal box broken into LA

I was issued a new p.o. box...

The door to that one was also ripped off...

The broken gate -- The week I moved into a gated community in Dallas, besides the Sprint phone installment incident, where 'Sprint' in presence of my sister and good friend Debbee entered the day arrived to 'fix' the phone jacks--We complained because they took so long in my bedroom and found out that Ma Bell (Bell South) handled all phones in the complex...

Well, a week later, the gate right in front of my apartment where my car was parked was completely flattened, and so we didn't have any security for over a month until they installed a new gate--and during that time, my apartment was entered and files and evidence torn, water dumped on my computer, and so on. Nobody but me suffered 'vandalism'.....

This was in Dallas..I'd stupidly moved there to try to find evidence to prove Lee's innocence...

The door locks are right after I was advised to flee Hungary and seek political asylum for my safety...it was m second warning...the people were so upset because my door had literally been ripped open that the maintenance people came at once and replaced the lock with a new one--

But I moved to a different hotel--you would have, too...

They stole as much out of my room, including money, etc. I arrived almost penniless and without much clothing in Sweden...BTW, I had moved from teaching in Miskolc, Hungary back to Budapest because I was advised of a death threat...told to leave the country, finally did...

[NOTE: I am trying to get the right photos with the right text. I will correct it as appropriate.]

Edited March 13, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

NOTE: It grieves me to see people I admire, like Jack White and Doug Weldon,

making nice with people I don't. How many times will they repost this ancient

piece from Mary Farrell, who is no longer here to say whether or not she would

still hold the same opinion, given the mass of evidence and documentation and

photographs that Judyth has produced? Was Mary operating independently or

for other reasons? I know she is venerated by many, but many of us continue

to support Judyth, including Jim Marrs, Nigel Turner, Ed Haslam, Wim Dankbaar,

and me. None of us is infallible. But then, none of Judyth's critics appears to be

the least bit affected, even by Judyth's demonstration that Junkkarinen, Viklund,

and McAdams are in collusion. Judyth has produced so much proof in support of

her position and in refutation of theirs that you would think it would impress the

more rational among them. If Judyth did not live through the experiences that

she has reported, then she must still be one of the leading experts on Lee Harvey

Oswald in the world today. I have been astonished by the sincerity and detail of

her communications with me--and they appear to me to be completely authentic.

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO JUNKKARINEN, PART 3:

Door marked with "X" in Sweden

Mailbox spray painted with red paint

Post boxes broken--both mine

Another uppercut for Barb! Uh, I like this fight! Great entertainment!

KK

We are witnessing a full-blown Barb-offensive against Judyth. Of course, it has been Barb's mission for many years to track down every detail of Judyth's life, including trying to find where she was being hidden by the Swedish govt, so this should come as no surprise.

But there is also a larger dynamic, which you have already eloquently addressed -- namely, who and what will attempt to block Judyth from having an open forum?

If Judyth were truly as insignificant as Barb tries to portray her, surely there would be no need for an offensive in the first place.

Thanks.

Let's keep in mind also that Barb's axiom is a refusal to ask questions about the evidence. As a result, her posts tend to block any leads to conspiracy, save a few rabbit trails, which she apparently thinks will suffice. So while Barb is proclaiming that she wants to keep history 'pure' she is in fact making demands that we all walk back into the fold of the WCR.

Barb has managed to make herself, in fact, a great warrior for the protection of Marina's WC testimony from the challenges placed on every sentence by the statements of Judyth. It seems that the entire structure of the WC and the subsequent Ongoing Coverup are threatened by Judyth. Ironic that Madeleine Brown did not receive the Full Barb Offensive, just a bit of nipping at the heels over the Murchison party the night before the assassination. Perhaps the difference is that what Madeline had to say did not threaten the WCR?

Edited March 13, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

NOTE: Since Judyth and I first came into contact

on 5 May 2009, I must have exchanged some 150

communications with her, including two interviews

for YouTube which have been posted on my blogs

about her. Based upon my exchanges with her, I

am profoundly convinced of her sincerity and her

integrity. She has obviously not satisfied all of her

critics, but I remain convinced that she knew Lee

in New Orleans and that most--not necessarily all--

of what she has to tell us about him is true. Just

suppose that what she is telling us is by and large

true. Had any of us endured the experiences that

she has endured--including constant harassment,

threats to her life, and having to stay constantly

on the move--we might have trouble recollecting

every event of our distant past and possibly even

be inclined to "fill in some of the blanks" when we

were challenged by hostile forces. That is where

I come out with Judyth: I continue to believe in

her and regard her as an important witness with

regard to one of the murkiest aspects of one of

the most mysterious persons in our history. My

objective continues to be to bring her story to the

attention of the American people and then allow

everyone--public and critics alike--to make up

their own minds about what she has to tell us.

FROM JUDYTH: JOHN PIC, THE SILENT BROTHER

We hear little of Lee’s half-brother, John Pic.

“Harvey and Lee” researchers say he failed

to recognize various photos of Lee.

The photo identified by the W.C. as ‘Lee Oswald at the Bronx Zoo’ also greatly resembles John Pic. The boys were half-brothers, and the phenotype, obviously, is strong.

Perhaps someone has photos of an adult John Pic. There are none to be found on the Internet.

Remember those `here and now` photos, where you have to try to identify a movie star from his or her high school photo? It isn’t always easy, and John Pic didn’t seem to be able to recognize many of his brother’s more mature photos.

But perhaps Pic was just being smart and wanted the questions to stop.

For he was smart. In fact, he was working in a hospital.

Not just any hospital, either. It was a military hospital.

And he wasn’t working as a janitor there.

Pic was working in a pathology lab.

What is pathology?

"Pathology is the medical science…that deals with all aspects of disease, but with special reference to the essential nature, the causes, and development of abnormal conditions, as well as the structural and functional changes that result from disease processes.1"…Human pathologists study the causes of disease; how various internal and external derangements or injuries affect certain cells and tissues…”

Who would have guessed that both Lee Oswald and his half brother John Pic could be involved in matters of pathology in 1963? As a witness to Lee Oswald’s activities in the field, I was pleased to see that another family member was also engaged in related activities.

It makes it easier to believe that Lee Oswald might have an aptitude in science. The same young man who trained in radar and science fiction, who evidence interest in astronomy and biology in high school, indeed had an interest in science when he was 23.

A good researcher noticed that John Pic had training in the medical field, in pathology, no less.

Here is a portion of Pic’s testimony before The Warren Commission. Lee’s half brother was initially questioned about his work in Japan, close to the time Lee was also there.

Mr. Jenner. What was your assignment in Japan?

Mr. Pic. I was a medical laboratory technician at the hospital there, sir…

Mr. Jenner. You are stationed where at present?

Mr. Pic. I am attached to Wilford Hall, USAF Hospital, Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio, Tex.

Mr. Jenner. Do you--what is your particular assignment?

Mr. Pic. I am NCOIC [Non-Commissioned Officer-in-Charge], Special Procedures Branch, Department of Pathology, Wilford Hall Hospital. I have had this job since the 10th of February this year…I had another job when I talked to the Secret Service if you would be interested in that.

Mr. Jenner. How long have you been at Lackland?

Mr. Pic. I have been there since August 1962, sir.

John Pic was working in a USAF Hospital in a pathology lab in Texas.

A file was sent to me by an Australian researcher, obtained from the Advisory Committee on human radiation experiments:

DOD-072294-D1 box; 1.2 cu.ft. Source: Department of

Defense, Radiation Experiments Command Center (RECC)Contents

Description: Materials requested re: additional Air Force experiments,

including reports from Wilford Hall Medical Center, Keesler AFB, Travis AFB, and RECC event file

Descriptors: Experiments; Human Subjects; Radiation--Ionizing; Department of the Air Force.”

“At the least, John Pic was working in the same medical center where the Air Force was known to have conducted experiments with radiation on human subjects, in San Antonio Texas.”

I remind you that I have reported that Lee Harvey Oswald was working in a project involved with radiation on human subjects.

What else do we know about John Edward Pic? His father was Edward John Pic, Jr. The Warren Commission reported that Marguerite had married

“….a quiet man of her own age, who worked as a clerk for T. Smith & Son. a New Orleans stevedoring company.11 The marriage was not a success, and by the summer of 1931 she and Pic were separated.12 Marguerite was then 3 months pregnant; she told her family that Pic did not want any children and refused to support her.13 Pic ascribed the separation simply to their inability to get along together.14 A boy was born on January 17, 1932, whom Marguerite named John Edward Pic.15 Pic saw his son occasionally until he was about 1 year old; after that, he did not see the boy again 16 but contributed to his support until he was 18 years old.”

The sad litany of problems that occurred after the death of Lee’s father shortly before lee was born will not be repeated here: they are easily accessed in the official record. Of interest to us is that John went to a military boarding school a couple of years, left home as soon as he could, joined the Coast Guard in 1950, and was married with a baby by 1952. By then, Lee’s full brother, Robert, had also left home and joined the Marines. The W.C. tells us:

In August, Mrs. Oswald and Lee moved to New York, where John was living with his wife and a very young baby in an apartment at 325 East 92d Street; the apartment- belonged to John's mother-in-law, who was temporarily away.182 Mrs. Oswald has explained that with Robert gone she did not want Lee to be alone while she worked and that she went to New. York City "not as a venture," but because she "had family" there.183

John Edward Pic gave his testimony to the Warren Commission on May 15, 1964, having been flown in from San Antonio, TX to Washington, D.C. He was a U.S. Air Force Staff Sergeant. He’d never gotten along well with Lee Oswald ever since Lee had threatened his new wife with a pocketknife as she argued with their mother. Before that incident, and others that concerned him, he had wanted Lee to live with him, if Marguerite, Lee’s mother, would have allowed it.

Lee Oswald’s facility in Russian language has been thought by many to simply have been too good. Researcher John Armstrong believed there might be more to it than hard work: When we are dealing with history, it is important to be thorough, and to consider all witnesses. Have any witness made statements about Lee H. Oswald and any possible Hungarian parentage? I have stated that I knew Lee personally and, furthermore, I was raised in a Hungarian-speaking household. My mother, aunt and uncle were-full blooded Hungarians with whom I spent entire summers and most weekends while growing up. As a witness who was raised in a Hungarian-speaking family, I was able to ascertain that Lee H. Oswald knew not a single word of Hungarian.

Mr. Armstrong discovered a telephone call that he believes might help prove that “Harvey”

(Lee H. Oswald) may have grown up speaking both Hungarian and Russian:

“ John Armstrong has suggested that Lee Harvey Oswald –as “Harvey” might have been born of Hungarian parents, due to a telephone call that was received by Mrs. Jack Tippit of Westport, Connecticut. Oswald's father and uncle were Hungarian communists, the caller stated.

Armstrong then wrote:

"If this information is correct, one of the two Oswald's lived in New York in his youth. This could explain Oswald's interest in communism (from his father and uncle), which began as a teenager and continued throughout his life." The caller “gave two names-Louis Weinstock and Emile Kardos."(sent this quote from Vol. 1)

But, as police are aware in a murder case, all sorts of tips and crank calls can surface in a well-publicized case. I testify that Lee constantly practiced his Russian on me, and I taught him Hungarian phrases. Therefore, I wish Mr. Armstrong had interviewed me. I would have told him about my experience with Lee and my seeking and finding the testimony of John Pic on May 15, Washington, DC, before the Warren Commission, regarding the national origins of his wife’s family:

Mr. JENNER - Her parents are native Americans as well as she?

Mr. PIC - No, sir; they are not.

Mr. JENNER - What do you know of them?

Mr. PIC - Her father died; I never met the man while we were going together. Her mother and father were separated. Her mother was born in Hungary, I think. Her father was also, sir.

Mr. JENNER - What do you understand as to when they came to, this country?

Mr. PIC - I have never inquired. It has probably been mentioned but I have forgotten

Mr. JENNER - Was it your impression they had been here a good many years?

Mr. PIC - Yes, sir; they have seven children. The eldest being in her forties, I am pretty sure.

Mr. JENNER - I see. When you met your wife she was living with her mother?

Mr. PIC - Yes, sir.

Mr. JENNER - Where?

Mr. PIC - 325 East 92d Street, New York City.

Mr. JENNER - And you were at that time in the service?

Mr. PIC - Yes, sir; U.S. Coast Guard, assigned to U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Rockaway.

Mr. JENNER - How old is Mrs. Pic?

Mr. PIC - Thirty, sir. She turned 30 the 21st of December.

Mr. JENNER - Of 1963?

Mr. PIC - Yes, sir.

We obviously have much more to learn about John Pic, the “silent witness."

Judyth Vary Baker

Edited March 13, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

NOTE: This appears to me to be an acid test of Judyth's critics. We already know that

Junkkarinen, Viklund, and McAdams have been collaborating in attacking her. It now

appears to me that Judyth has proof--in the form of a tape recording--that puts the lie

to this disgraceful abuse of the memory of someone widely admired. If there is a more

dishonorable act than this--for crass political motives--I cannot image what it would be.

RESPONSE TO JUNKKARINEN'S MARY FERRELL POSTING:

TO ALL:

A GOOD RESEARCHER WILL PRESENT INFORMATION IN AN UNBIASED MANNER.

1) BUT BARB DID NOT POST MARY FERRELL'S EMAIL AND ITS ORIGINAL HEADER.

INSTEAD, SHE POSTED AN ATTACHMENT TO IT. WE DISPUTE THE PROVENANCE AND AUTHORSHIP OF KEY PORTIONS OF THAT ATTACHMENT.

2) THE EMAIL BARB DID NOT REVEAL TO YOU SAID THAT MARY EXPRESSED 'REGRET' THAT SHE HAD TO WASH HER HANDS OF ME.

TO MY FACE, MARY TOLD ME THAT SHE COULD NO LONGER BEAR THE RELENTLESS PRESSURE FROM ALL HER OLD FRIENDS. IT WAS DRIVING HER CRAZY AND SHE HAD DECIDED TO STOP DEFENDING ME IF SHE WAS TO HAVE ANY PEACE. SHE RELIED ON THESE PEOPLE FOR TRANSPORTATION, INCOME FROM LANCER, THE MARY FERRELL AWARD AT LANCER, AND SHE JUST COULDN'T KEEP DEFENDING ME ANYMORE.

3) BARB WITHHELD THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A TAPE RECORDING WHERE MARY DENIED WRITING THE ATTACHMENT AS IT IS NOW PUBLISHED.

WE NEED HONESTY IN RESEARCH.

THOSE WHO HAVE HEARD THE TAPE OR HAVE READ ITS TRANSCRPT MUST ASK:

4) DID MARY FERRELL LIE TO THOSE WHO TAPED HER,?

WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT MARY FERRELL'S HONESTY, IF SHE DID?

SHE IS NOT HERE TO GIVE YOU HER SIDE OF THE STORY NOW.

MARY SAID SHE DID NOT WRITE THE ATTACHMENT IN THE FORM IN WHICH IT NOW EXISTS.

WE READ PORTIONS OF IT TO HER.

MARY TOLD ME SHE SAID BAD THINGS ABOUT ME TO PAUL HOCH, LIFTON, CONWAY AND MCADAMS BECAUSE OTHERWISE THEY PESTERED HER UNTIL SHE FELT READY TO CRY. SHE SAID ONLY PETER DALE SCOTT KEPT AN O[PEN MIND ABOUT ME.

SHE WAS TAKING A LOT OF MEDICATIONS, INCLUDING ANTI-DEPRESSANTS. SHE HAD BIG MOOD SWINGS, AS EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO KNEW MARY WELL.

SHE TOLD ME AND FRIENDS OF MINE THAT SHE JUST COULDN'T STAND THE PRESSURE OF MY ENEMIES ON HER ANYMORE. THEY HAD ALL BEEN HER FRIENDS FOR SO LONG, EXCEPT, SHE SAID, SHE DESPISED CONWAY.

IF MARY DIDN'T LIKE ME, WHY DID SHE GIVE ME THE GATE CODE SO I COULD VISIT HER AND RECORD HER MESSAGE THAT SHE DID NOT WRITE THE EMAIL? HOW DID WE GET INSIDE THE LOCKED SECURITY GATE, WHERE YOU HAVE TO PUNCH IN THE GATE CODE?

BECAUSE MARY FERRELL CALLED ME AND ASKED ME IF I WOULD COME OVER. SHE HAD BEEN OUT TO LUNCH WITH PETER DALE SCOTT AND OTHERS AND HAD COME BACK IN AND WAS FEELING BADLY BECAUSE BAD THINGS HAD BEEN SAID ABOUT ME ON THAT EMAIL.

MARY GAVE ME THE NEW GATE CODE TO GET INTO HER HIGH SECURITY ASSISTED LIVING QUARTERS.

I HAD BEEN THERE MANY TIMES AND ALREADY HAD HER ROOM NUMBER.

SHE PUT ME ON HER LIST OF ACCEPTED VISITORS..

I DECIDED TO TAKE WITNESSES AND A TAPE RECORDER.

THE NURSE UNLOCKED HER DOOR, AND ASKED IF SHE WANTED TO SEE US, AND WE WERE WELCOME.

YOU CAN HEAR IT ALL ON THE TAPE.

THAT'S NOT WHAT MCADAMS PUBLISHED ON HIS NEWSGROUP.

HE PUBLISHED A DESCRIPTION BY ROBERT CHAPMAN, WHO HAD NOT BEEN THERE.

SHAMEFULLY, ROBERT CHAPMAN DESCRIBED TO THE NEWSGROUP A NOISY, YELLING INVASION OF "JUDYTH SUPPORTERS" CHARGING INTO MARY'S UNLOCKED ROOM AND FORCING MARY TO SAY SHE DID NOT WRITE THE ATTACHMENT.

MARY NEVER TOLD CHAPMAN OR ANYBODY ELSE THAT I WAS THERE, TOO. MY VOICE IS ON THE RECORDING. BUT SHE NEVER TOLD.

SO CHAPMAN DESCRIBED A GANG OF JUDYTH SUPPORTERS BREAKING IN AND YELLING AT MARY. HE DID NOT KNOW THE TAPE RECORDING WAS MADE,

THAT WAS ANOTHER THING THAT MARY FERRELL DID NOT TELL HIM.

AFTER I RECORDED WHAT SHE SAID, WITH HER PERMISSION, I PUT THE RECORDER AWAY BUT IT DID NOT TURN OFF. IT HAD RECORDED OVER 400 INTERVIEWS WITH CAJUNS AND THE BUTTON WAS VERY LOOSE AND IT DID NOT TURN OFF. SO EVEN MORE THAN I HAD PLANNED GOT ON THE TAPE, SHOWING WE HAD A VERY PLEASANT MEETING AND MARY ENJOYED IT.

CHAPMAN DESCRIBE US AS BROWBEATING AND HARRASSING MARY.

THANK GOD, THE TAPE RECORDER KEPT ON RECORDING IN MY PURSE.

HE SAID THAT ATER THAT, THEY HAD TO LOCK MARY'S ROOM TO KEEP OFFENSIVE JUDYTH-SUPPORTERS FROM BOTHERING MARY. BUT HER ROOM WAS ALREADY BEING LOCKED, AS THE TAPE RECORDING PROVES.

ON THE TAPE RECORDING, YOU CAN HEAR THE NURSE SAYING SHE WILL UNLOCK THE DOOR AND ASK MARY IF SHE WANTS TO SEE US.

MARY DID.

WE HAD SUCH A NICE CONVERSATION.

I HAVE COPIES OF THE TAPE IN THE HANDS OF SEVERAL PEOPLE.

I CAN GET THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE TAPE AND WILL PUBLISH IT ON MY NEW BLOG.

WHY DIDN'T SHE TELL CHAPMAN, MCADAMS, & CO I WAS THERE? WHY DIDN'T SHE TELL ANYBODY ABOUT THE TAPE RECORDING? WE ASKED HER ON THE TAPE IF IT IS OKAY TO RECORD HER AND SHE SAID IT WAS.

WAS THAT HER WAY TO PROTECT ME, JUST A LITTLE?

PLEASE READ THE REMARKS ---LIKE THIS-- THAT ARE WRITTEN WITH CHAPMAN'S MESSAGE. HE DID NOT TELL THE TRUTH, AND WE HAVE THE AUDIOTAPE TO PROVE IT. THIS MESSAGE IS BEING SHOWN HERE TO THE PUBLIC IN DEFENSE OF JUDYTH VARY BAKER, ACCUSED OF ACTIONS SHE DID NOT COMMIT, BY A MAN WHO WAS NOT PRESENT.

JUDYTH BAKER HAD ENCOURAGED MARY FERRELL TO KEEP HER FUNDS IN DALLAS FOR HER TO HANDLE PERSONALLY. FERRELL SAID CHAPMAN WANTED FERRELL'S FUNDS TRANSFERRED TO AN OUT OF STATE BANK. SHE WAS IN TEARS OVER IT. SHE ALSO SAID THAT HER FRIENDS WERE BROWBEATING HER TO DENONCE BAKER, SHE WAS GIVEN NO PEACE IN THE MATTER, AND THEY WERE WEARING HER OUT ABOUT HER FRIENDSHIP WITH BAKER.

HERE ARE THE LIES THAT WERE POSTED BY ROBERT CHAPMAN, WITH COMMENTS I WROTE AT THAT TIME. THE REBUTTAL TO THE ATTACHMENT, WHICH IS REPLETE WITH INACCURACIES, THE WRONG DATES, AND OUTRIGHT LIES, WILL BE POSTED AT THE NEW BLOG THAT DR. FETZER CAN SEND YOU TO.

BECAUSE BARB DID NOT PRESENT THE EMAIL THAT CARRIED THE ATTACHMENT, NOR DID SHE TELL YOU ABOUT THE RECODING, I HOPE YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THAT I WLL NOT RESPOND ON THE EDUCATION FORUM TO ANY MORE OF HER POSTS, REPLETE AS THEY ARE WITH INACCURACIES.

I ASK THAT YOU SEE MY ANSWERS TO HER ENDLESS CRITICISMS THAT TAKE US FAR AFIELD FROM LEE OSWALD, BIOWEAPONS, ETC. INTO PERSONAL VENDETTAS.

THEREFORE, FROM NOW ON, I WLL DIRECT YOU TO THE NEW BOG FOR ANSWERS.

THAT WILL FREE THE EDUCATION FORUM FOR EDUCATION INSTEAD OF BOXES OF RED HERRINGS.

REMEMBER, BARB HAS TEN YEARS OF SUFF TO TROT OUT. THIS ONE IS PARTICULARLY SMELLY BECAUSE MARY DENIED WRITING IT ON TAPE. ROBERT CHAPMAN SAYS 'PEOPLE SENT BY JUDYTH' ACCOSTED MARY.

I WAS THERE.

HE DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

MARY DIDN'T TELL HM.

ASK YOURSELF WHY....

I WLL HAVE MORE INFORMATION FOR THOSE INTERESTED AT THE NEW BLOG.

COMMENTS BELOW WERE WRITTEN AT THE TIME CHAPMAN SENT OUT THIS DISTURBINGLY UNTRUE EMAIL THAT DOES NOT MATCH THE TAPE RECORDING. WHY DID HE LIE?

From: Robert Chapman

Subject: Mary Ferrell and her denunciation of Judyth

This is the only article in this thread

View: Original Format

Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk

Date: 2003-07-27 11:52:07 PST

All: Martin wrote:

"Mary Ferrell is cited based on one communication she has denied writing,..."

CHAPMAN: I have known and worked with Mary since 1975. We remain the very closest of friends. We speak by phone weekly (often several times), and I visit her in Dallas (I live in Memphis) 3-4 times a year. I know ALL of the details regarding the two incidents Martin refers to as Mary "denying" she wrote her letter of repudiation regarding Judyth. These are the facts:

Mary wrote that letter. She stands by every word of it. She considers Judyth a fraud.

--Tthe 'letter of repudiation' showed a source code from a different computer where the 'letter' was held up for hours before finally transiting on the internet. When the delay was pointed out, the source code was erased from the posted email 'from mary' and Dave Reitzes posted a hand-typed header instead, which of course we have copies of in both instances, both the old header and its substitute.--JVB

CHAPMAN: The two occasions to which Martin refers occured when people sent by Judyth,

JVB: --The persons involved were JUDYTH, Debbee Reynolds, and Judyth's sister, Lynda!

This is all on audiotape. A transcript was published on the internet.--

CHAPMAN:....frantic to salvage her status with Mary, entered into Mary's unlocked

JVB:--on tape we have the nurse unlocking the door and asking Mary if we can come in. Mary welcomes us! She's glad to see us!--

CHAPMAN: apartment door and woke her up. Mary lives in a very expensive assisted living facility in Dallas, and prior to these incidents always left her door unlocked so that staff could come and go unimpeded. She now locks her door.

JVB:--In fact, staff thought she wasn't even home and had to knock, and Mary answered. Mary said she had had no dinner because when she was dropped off earlier that day, but her daughter, Carol Anne, had failed to tell staff Mary had come home for the rest of the day. So Mary had no dinner (it was about 7:00 PM).

Yes, Mary lived in a very expensive assisted living facility, and we would NOT have been allowed in except MY name was on Mary's list of persons allowed to visit her. The nurse checked the list, found MY name, and that's why she brought me--with Debbee and Lynda--to Mary's room.--

CHAPMAN (WHO DOES NOT KNOW HOW MANY CAME TO MARY'S APARTMENT): These people, having woken Mary (who at 80+ years suffers occasionally from poor health) from a deep sleep, began shouting questions at her

JVB;--The tape recording shows nobody shouted. We had a nice talk, which began about the pretty jewelry Lynda was wearing. Lynda is a numismatist who has sold rare coins and rare gems. Mary said she was interested in the jewelry. That is how the conversation began.--

CHAPMAN:....and waving around in the air a document and asking Mary if she wrote it. Mary worked for 40+ years for a law firm, and she told me she didn't know what they were waving about but she denied writing that or anything.

NOTE: IN CHAPMAN'S OWN WORDS, HE HAS MARY DENYING SHE WROTE THE DOCUMENT THAT BARB SAYS MARY WROTE....

JVB: --We did show her the document, eventually, about ten minutes into the tape, and she looked at it, then had us read portions. She denied having written it. She said she would never have mentioned Debbee's discounted tickets because it might have got her in trouble at her job. (Debbee and Lynda have thought of each other as sisters for years.) We have the entire incident on tape. Later a second group of researchers met with Mary and she confirmed the same things to them. We can obtain statements, if necessary, from the second group of researchers, who met Mary about three weeks later.--

CHAPMAN: She wanted them the Hell out of her apartment. Her opinion was and remains that Judyth's claims are just that--claims--not facts, and Mary cares not in the least what anyone thinks of her (Mary's) opinion of Judyth, nor does she care whether anyone believes she wrote the letter (that she did write) denouncing Judyth.

NOTE: NOW CHAPMAN SAYS SHE DID WRITE THE ATTACHMENT THAT HE CALLS A LETTER.

JVB--Mary's computer was placed in an entirely different room, which she could not reach without getting out of bed. Durng the visit, Mary asked Judyth to check her computer because it wasn't working properly. I found that the computer was not protected by a password. It was also improperly hooked up to the Internet. Mary said she would have someone brought in to fix it.

The computer was also running hot because the main component was behind a closed door in a cabinet. I suggested the back be knocked out of that part of the cabinet to stop overheating of the computer.

Did someone get on Mary's computer, paste together some emails that she had sent to me with questions, then their own comments were added?

Anybody could get on the computer without its password protection, and would not even be seen using that computer. My opinion is mere conjecture, but we may have to impugn Mary Ferrell's honesty otherwise. As for support, Ferrell wrote a note saying she found Judyth's story 'credible' to a literary agent, Frank Weimann. We have the original note and copies.--

CHAPMAN: The clear evidence for that is the absolute silence from Mary regarding Judyth or anything to do with her since the day Mary emailed her position.

JVB--Mary told us she had been browbeaten and pestered so much by Chapman, Lifton, McAdams, Conway, and other 'friends' that she refused to say any more. "They're driving me crazy!" she said. However, we had asked permission to tape record her statements and she knew she was being tape recorded when she said she did not write that email. I soon put the tape recorder in my purse so I could give Mary some water. It kept running and the rest is harder to hear, but still audible.--

CHAPMAN: I write this in the full knowledge that it will likely convince no one, and am doing so simply to put on the record the absolute truth regarding this matter.

JVB: HE WASN'T PRESENT, BUT A TAPE RECORDER WAS. HE LIED. --And Mary didn't tell him about the tape recording. This was how Mary got the truth out without Mary having to argue with Chapman. We released the tape recording's transcript only after enduring a flurry of nasty emails against me (Judyth) for several weeks, which resulted from this message of Chapman's.--

CHAPMAN: I do not normally post, and do not lurk. These messages are forwarded to me.

JVB--Mary complained that when I had tried to called her that the ringer on her phone had been turned down. She complained about ongoing computer problems. She complained that she was being isolated from her friends by her daughter. She also complained that the doggie door that had been promised was not installed, and her pomeraniam was not with her as promised.

She also complained that she had not had an intercom installed so she could talk to visitors at her door without getting out of bed. Mary said she was being locked in her room all the time, and she resented that. Chapman says this was our fault! Thank God, we have a tape recorded record of the visit!--JVB

I will reply to the particulars of the "letter of denunciation" at the new blog. I hope the Education Forum members will forgive me for these intrusions by others. I have been trying to get new information posted. I have not had the opportunity for years, due to these very tactics.

Thank you.

JVB

Edited March 13, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Jack White]

What absurdity! I knew Mary Ferrell very well from 1975 till her death. The person

described by JVB SOUNDS NOTHING LIKE MARY!

Robert Chapman was a very close friend and confidante of Mary for a number of

years. The person described by JVB sounds nothing like Robert Chapman.

Debra Conway was close to Mary because of Deb's organization JFK LANCER. The

person described by JVB sounds nothing like Debra.

Having known Mary Ferrell since 1975, I trust what she wrote. I do NOT trust

what JVB has written.

As for the photos showing "threats against JVB", self-inflicted wounds are sometimes

used to garner sympathy for persons of certain pathologies.

And as for the dumb comment about the BRONX ZOO photo, claiming that it is

a photo of John Pic is absurd! When testifying before the WC, Pic was shown the

photo and asked whether he could identify the boy in the photo. He replied NO.

Not anyone he knew. JVB cannot even get simple things like this correct.

Jack

Edited March 13, 2010 by Jack White

[Linda Minor]

NOTE: Since Judyth and I first came into contact

on 5 May 2009, I must have exchanged some 150

communications with her, including two interviews

for YouTube which have been posted on my blogs

about her. Based upon my exchanges with her, I

am profoundly convinced of her sincerity and her

integrity. She has obviously not satisfied all of her

critics, but I remain convinced that she knew Lee

in New Orleans and that most--not necessarily all--

of what she has to tell us about him is true. Just

suppose that what she is telling us is by and large

true. Had any of us endured the experiences that

she has endured--including constant harassment,

threats to her life, and having to stay constantly

on the move--we might have trouble recollecting

every event of our distant past and possibly even

be inclined to "fill in some of the blanks" when we

were challenged by hostile forces. That is where

I come out with Judyth: I continue to believe in

her and regard her as an important witness with

regard to one of the murkiest aspects of one of

the most mysterious persons in our history. My

objective continues to be to bring her story to the

attention of the American people and then allow

everyone--public and critics alike--to make up

their own minds about what she has to tell us.

FROM JUDYTH: JOHN PIC, THE SILENT BROTHER

We hear little of Lee’s half-brother, John Pic.

“Harvey and Lee” researchers say he failed

to recognize various photos of Lee.

The photo identified by the W.C. as ‘Lee Oswald at the Bronx Zoo’ also greatly resembles John Pic. The boys were half-brothers, and the phenotype, obviously, is strong.

Perhaps someone has photos of an adult John Pic. There are none to be found on the Internet.

Remember those `here and now` photos, where you have to try to identify a movie star from his or her high school photo? It isn’t always easy, and John Pic didn’t seem to be able to recognize many of his brother’s more mature photos.

But perhaps Pic was just being smart and wanted the questions to stop.

For he was smart. In fact, he was working in a hospital.

Not just any hospital, either. It was a military hospital.

And he wasn’t working as a janitor there.

Pic was working in a pathology lab.

What is pathology?

"Pathology is the medical science…that deals with all aspects of disease, but with special reference to the essential nature, the causes, and development of abnormal conditions, as well as the structural and functional changes that result from disease processes.1"…Human pathologists study the causes of disease; how various internal and external derangements or injuries affect certain cells and tissues…”

Who would have guessed that both Lee Oswald and his half brother John Pic could be involved in matters of pathology in 1963? As a witness to Lee Oswald’s activities in the field, I was pleased to see that another family member was also engaged in related activities.

It makes it easier to believe that Lee Oswald might have an aptitude in science. The same young man who trained in radar and science fiction, who evidence interest in astronomy and biology in high school, indeed had an interest in science when he was 23.

A good researcher noticed that John Pic had training in the medical field, in pathology, no less.

Here is a portion of Pic’s testimony before The Warren Commission. Lee’s half brother was initially questioned about his work in Japan, close to the time Lee was also there.

Mr. Jenner. What was your assignment in Japan?

Mr. Pic. I was a medical laboratory technician at the hospital there, sir…

Mr. Jenner. You are stationed where at present?

Mr. Pic. I am attached to Wilford Hall, USAF Hospital, Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio, Tex.

Mr. Jenner. Do you--what is your particular assignment?

Mr. Pic. I am NCOIC [Non-Commissioned Officer-in-Charge], Special Procedures Branch, Department of Pathology, Wilford Hall Hospital. I have had this job since the 10th of February this year…I had another job when I talked to the Secret Service if you would be interested in that.

Mr. Jenner. How long have you been at Lackland?

Mr. Pic. I have been there since August 1962, sir.

John Pic was working in a USAF Hospital in a pathology lab in Texas.

A file was sent to me by an Australian researcher, obtained from the Advisory Committee on human radiation experiments:

DOD-072294-D1 box; 1.2 cu.ft. Source: Department of

Defense, Radiation Experiments Command Center (RECC)Contents

Description: Materials requested re: additional Air Force experiments,

including reports from Wilford Hall Medical Center, Keesler AFB, Travis AFB, and RECC event file

Descriptors: Experiments; Human Subjects; Radiation--Ionizing; Department of the Air Force.”

“At the least, John Pic was working in the same medical center where the Air Force was known to have conducted experiments with radiation on human subjects, in San Antonio Texas.”

I remind you that I have reported that Lee Harvey Oswald was working in a project involved with radiation on human subjects.

What else do we know about John Edward Pic? His father was Edward John Pic, Jr. The Warren Commission reported that Marguerite had married

“….a quiet man of her own age, who worked as a clerk for T. Smith & Son. a New Orleans stevedoring company.11 The marriage was not a success, and by the summer of 1931 she and Pic were separated.12 Marguerite was then 3 months pregnant; she told her family that Pic did not want any children and refused to support her.13 Pic ascribed the separation simply to their inability to get along together.14 A boy was born on January 17, 1932, whom Marguerite named John Edward Pic.15 Pic saw his son occasionally until he was about 1 year old; after that, he did not see the boy again 16 but contributed to his support until he was 18 years old.”

The sad litany of problems that occurred after the death of Lee’s father shortly before lee was born will not be repeated here: they are easily accessed in the official record. Of interest to us is that John went to a military boarding school a couple of years, left home as soon as he could, joined the Coast Guard in 1950, and was married with a baby by 1952. By then, Lee’s full brother, Robert, had also left home and joined the Marines. The W.C. tells us:

In August, Mrs. Oswald and Lee moved to New York, where John was living with his wife and a very young baby in an apartment at 325 East 92d Street; the apartment- belonged to John's mother-in-law, who was temporarily away.182 Mrs. Oswald has explained that with Robert gone she did not want Lee to be alone while she worked and that she went to New. York City "not as a venture," but because she "had family" there.183

John Edward Pic gave his testimony to the Warren Commission on May 15, 1964, having been flown in from San Antonio, TX to Washington, D.C. He was a U.S. Air Force Staff Sergeant. He’d never gotten along well with Lee Oswald ever since Lee had threatened his new wife with a pocketknife as she argued with their mother. Before that incident, and others that concerned him, he had wanted Lee to live with him, if Marguerite, Lee’s mother, would have allowed it.

Lee Oswald’s facility in Russian language has been thought by many to simply have been too good. Researcher John Armstrong believed there might be more to it than hard work: When we are dealing with history, it is important to be thorough, and to consider all witnesses. Have any witness made statements about Lee H. Oswald and any possible Hungarian parentage? I have stated that I knew Lee personally and, furthermore, I was raised in a Hungarian-speaking household. My mother, aunt and uncle were-full blooded Hungarians with whom I spent entire summers and most weekends while growing up. As a witness who was raised in a Hungarian-speaking family, I was able to ascertain that Lee H. Oswald knew not a single word of Hungarian.

Mr. Armstrong discovered a telephone call that he believes might help prove that “Harvey”

(Lee H. Oswald) may have grown up speaking both Hungarian and Russian:

“ John Armstrong has suggested that Lee Harvey Oswald –as “Harvey” might have been born of Hungarian parents, due to a telephone call that was received by Mrs. Jack Tippit of Westport, Connecticut. Oswald's father and uncle were Hungarian communists, the caller stated.

Armstrong then wrote:

"If this information is correct, one of the two Oswald's lived in New York in his youth. This could explain Oswald's interest in communism (from his father and uncle), which began as a teenager and continued throughout his life." The caller “gave two names-Louis Weinstock and Emile Kardos."(sent this quote from Vol. 1)

But, as police are aware in a murder case, all sorts of tips and crank calls can surface in a well-publicized case. I testify that Lee constantly practiced his Russian on me, and I taught him Hungarian phrases. Therefore, I wish Mr. Armstrong had interviewed me. I would have told him about my experience with Lee and my seeking and finding the testimony of John Pic on May 15, Washington, DC, before the Warren Commission, regarding the national origins of his wife’s family:

Mr. JENNER - Her parents are native Americans as well as she?

Mr. PIC - No, sir; they are not.

Mr. JENNER - What do you know of them?

Mr. PIC - Her father died; I never met the man while we were going together. Her mother and father were separated. Her mother was born in Hungary, I think. Her father was also, sir.

Mr. JENNER - What do you understand as to when they came to, this country?

Mr. PIC - I have never inquired. It has probably been mentioned but I have forgotten

Mr. JENNER - Was it your impression they had been here a good many years?

Mr. PIC - Yes, sir; they have seven children. The eldest being in her forties, I am pretty sure.

Mr. JENNER - I see. When you met your wife she was living with her mother?

Mr. PIC - Yes, sir.

Mr. JENNER - Where?

Mr. PIC - 325 East 92d Street, New York City.

Mr. JENNER - And you were at that time in the service?

Mr. PIC - Yes, sir; U.S. Coast Guard, assigned to U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Rockaway.

Mr. JENNER - How old is Mrs. Pic?

Mr. PIC - Thirty, sir. She turned 30 the 21st of December.

Mr. JENNER - Of 1963?

Mr. PIC - Yes, sir.

We obviously have much more to learn about John Pic, the “silent witness."

Judyth Vary Baker

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=267525

John Pic's wife: Margaret (Marge) Fuhrman, born Dec. 1933 in New York

Mother is Mary, father deceased; sister is Mrs. John Ebel in NY City.

Margaret Dorothy Fuhrman

Born: 21 Dec 1933

New York City, New York, New York, USA

Died: 7 Nov 1994

Lynn Haven, Bay, Florida, USA

Spouse

John Edward Pic

Born: 17 Jan 1932 in New Orleans, Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Died: 25 Apr 2000 in Lynn Haven, Bay, Florida, USA

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=6

June 1954 John Pic was on sea duty with Coast Guard

Emma Henrietta Parrish nee Fuhrman

Doris Ebel, Mrs. Pic's sister

Nancy Rico, another sister

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=7

Three brothers: Edward, Arthur, Paul Fuhrman

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=338518

George Clifford Parrish, USN

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=339464

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=699655

John Pic's job

Pics did not blame Lee but his mother.

Address of school he attended.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=331534

Weinstock, editor of Woman's World

Emile Kardos, brother-in-law

Woman caller had Austrian or German accent

http://dlib.nyu.edu/findingaids/html/tamwag/weinstock.html

Guide to the Papers of Louis Weinstock WAG 013

Dates: 1910-1994, (Bulk 1930-1980)

Abstract: Louis Weinstock was born in Hungary in 1903 and emigrated to the United States in 1923. He settled in New York City and in 1925 joined the Painters’ Union, Local 499. Weinstock became one of the leaders of the “Rank and File” movement in District Council 9 of the International Painters and Paperhangers. Weinstock fought for Social Security and initiated the drive for unemployment insurance. Weinstock also led the Rank-and-File painters caucus in a fight against corruption in the union. Weinstock defeated the corrupt leadership of the infamous Lepke-Gurrah racketeer gang and was elected to the office of Secretary-Treasurer. In 1951, Weinstock was charged with conspiring to violate the Smith Act while teaching a trade union class; he was found guilty and sentenced to three years in jail. Weinstock retired from the union in 1963 and died in 1994 from heart failure.

His activism included attending the founding convention of the World Federation of Trade Unions in 1945. He was a delegate to the first World Peace Congress, held in Paris in 1949. He continued to work throughout his life on the important issues facing international trade unions. In 1950 Weinstock became the secretary of the May Day planning committee. In 1953 the permit for the parade was canceled because the U.S. Subversive Activities Control Board declared that the group must register under the McCarran Act for operating a "Communist front" organization. At this point in Weinstock's life he was defending himself against three separate federal prosecutions: the May Day charge of perjury for allegedly lying about the name of the organizing committee; the Smith Act charge of teaching anti- American labor history, and the McCarran Act for being branded a Communist.

On June 20, 1951 the FBI showed up to take Weinstock to jail. He was charged with conspiring to violate the Smith Act while teaching a course on trade unionism in 1950. The Justice Department argued that some issues being taught could be viewed as advocating a violent overthrow of the U.S. government. In 1953 Weinstock was found guilty and sentenced to three years in jail and $6,000 fine. He was finally released from prison in May 1957 and continued to pay off the $6,000 fine in monthly installments for the next 19 years. After his release from prison in 1957, he was reinstated back into the District Council 9 and continued his trade as a house painter until a massive heart attack in 1963 forced him to retire.

After retirement, Louis and Rose moved to Los Angeles where they remained active by working with the Los Angeles Committee for Trade Union Action and Democracy (TUAD) and also coordinated a Senior Citizens Organization. During the 1980s he was active with senior citizens' organizations and was a delegate to the World Conference on Aging, organized by the United Nations, held in Vienna, Austria. Louis Weinstock died on November 26, 1994 at the age of 91 from heart failure.

Sources:

Gersh, Adolph B., Occupational Hazards and the Painter.New York: New York District Council No. 9, B. of P. D. & P. of A., 1937.

[Linda Minor]

The Weinstock mentioned in the call to Tippit was one of the men arrested in 1951 for Communist activity.

Mr. Armstrong discovered a telephone call that he believes might help prove that “Harvey”

(Lee H. Oswald) may have grown up speaking both Hungarian and Russian:

“ John Armstrong has suggested that Lee Harvey Oswald –as “Harvey” might have been born of Hungarian parents, due to a telephone call that was received by Mrs. Jack Tippit of Westport, Connecticut. Oswald's father and uncle were Hungarian communists, the caller stated.

Armstrong then wrote:

"If this information is correct, one of the two Oswald's lived in New York in his youth. This could explain Oswald's interest in communism (from his father and uncle), which began as a teenager and continued throughout his life." The caller “gave two names-Louis Weinstock and Emile Kardos."(sent this quote from Vol. 1)

JUNE 20, 1951

High Brass of Reds Arrested

Twenty-One Communist Officials Rounded Up

NEW YORK. J u n e 20—(UP)—A federal grand jury today indicted

21 of the high brass of the U n i t e d States Communist party on a

charge of conspiracy to teach and advocate the overthrow of the government

by force and violence. The FBI had just finished rounding up 17 of the 21 reds when the

indictments were handed down. The other four were sought. The 17 were arrested on the basis of

warrants issued here secretly yesterday.

The indictment was the beginning of a government drive to lop off the second head of the party,

which sprouted after the conviction of the 11 members of the Communist national committee on the

same charge in 1949.

The indictment came just 16 days after the U. S. Supreme Court affirmed the conviction of the 11

and upheld the c o n s t i t u t i o n a l i t y of the Smith act, under which they were indicted.

A majority of the 21 indicted today are members of the alternate national committee of the party.

That committee recently was formed to serve as the top policy making board of the party in the absence

of, the convicted national committee members.

Triggered at 6:30 a m. EST, the FBI rounded up 16 of the defendants in New York and one in Pittsburgh.

The FBI still was seeking four of the defendants. They were Dr. James K. Jackson, 36, of Brooklyn,

southern regional director of the U. S. Communist party; Sidney Steinheig, 36, of New York, assistant

national labor secretary of the party, Fred Fine, 37, of New York, secretary of the party public affairs

department, and William Norman Marion, 49, of New York, executive secretary of the party.

There were four women among those arrested. The indictment also named as co-conspirators, but

not as defendants, the 11 convicted leaders and William Z Foster, national party chairman, who has been indicted but not prosecuted in the previous case because of illness.

...Louis Weinstock. 48, Bronx, N.Y., a member of the national review commission of the party. A former member of the national committee and secretary of the United May Day committee the last two years, he is a native of Satara, Hungary. He was naturalized in 1930.

[Pamela Brown]

NOTE: This appears to me to be an acid test of Judyth's critics. We already know that

Junkkarinen, Luklunf, and McAdams have been collaborating in attacking her.

One of the most distressing aspects of the ongoing campaign against Judyth is that the attackers not only deny the attack but also dismiss everything Judyth says about the attacks. They in fact ridicule her need for protection and asylum. The fact that Judyth had to live in fear in this country and barely survive outside of it means nothing to them. It is though she *deserves* such treatment.

And while the campaign continues, they consistently refuse to answer one simple question -- namely, why can't this one documented witness be allowed to speak in an open forum?

[Pamela Brown]

JVB has scads of charming stories about her "romance" with LHO...but NONE OF THEM ARE DOCUMENTED.

When I confronted her on the internet about which Oswald she knew, HARVEY OR LEE, she became incoherent

and nasty...saying there WAS ONLY ONE OSWALD. This sealed it for me...since I know there were two LHOs.

Judyth is a witness, you are a researcher. There are two different paths here. Your beliefs are not first-hand. You operate from an hypothesis which you think is true. Judyth speaks from what she has seen and heard.

Perhaps you could also try thinking in terms of a persecution-hypothesis. You believe it applies to you -- what about applying it to Judyth? You believe you have been targeted and attacked because of what you know about the assassination and the fact that you refuse to be quiet about it. Judyth was terrorized in the US and had no alternative but to leave and try to survive outside of the US. That has been almost impossible as well. If she really knows nothing, why has so much happened to her and those around her? And please don't fall into the ongoing campaign's little trap of saying she's 'making it all up', implying that she 'deserves' what has happened to her, as that is just a pack of lies.

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Yes--and those "pages and pages" of posts have been so graciously received!

Has anyone else on the forum been subjected to such vicious and vindictive

abuse? This is not a close call, Kathy. How many others have ever had their

mental health questioned on this forum? You should acknowledge the obvious.

And while the campaign continues, they consistently refuse to answer one simple question -- namely, why can't this one documented witness be allowed to speak in an open forum?

Hasn't she been speaking? We have pages and pages of it.

Edited March 13, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Pamela, you have no idea how much I personally appreciate your very reasonable approach

to this. I would contrast it with Jack's not entirely rational--even bizarre--position, which is:

JACK KNOWS THERE WERE TWO OSWALDS;

JUDYTH ONLY KNEW ONE LEE OSWALD;

THEREFORE, JACK REJECTS JUDYTH.

But why in the world should Judyth Vary Baker KNOW that there were "two Oswalds"?

I DON'T KNOW THAT. I'M NOT CONVINCED. WHY SHOULD JUDYTH, WHO ONLY KNEW ONE?

IF JACK WANTS TO BE CONSISTENT, HE MIGHT AS WELL REJECT EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES

WITH HIM ON ANY ASPECT OF THE ASSASSINATION OF JFK. HE AND I DISAGREE ABOUT THE

THIRD TRAMP. SHOULDN'T HE REJECT ME ON THAT BASIS ALONE?

IF JACK REALLY THINKS THAT, JUST BECAUSE HE BELIEVES SOMETHING, EVERYONE ELSE IN

THE WORLD SHOULD BELIEVE IT, TOO--INCLUDING JUDYTH AND ME--THEN HE IS THE ONE WHO

APPEARS TO HAVE "MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES".

AND HIS REPEATED POSTINGS OF THE SAME POINTS OF ATTACK BOTHER ME JUST AS MUCH.

I would like to lay this "mental health" charge to rest, once and for all. I previously posted a

report on Judyth's mental health on page 2 in post #29. Here is what I have explained already:

James H. Fetzer Feb 28 2010, 09:30 PM Post #29

Nice post, Hank! I appreciate your speaking out. PLUS would anyone in the world WANT the kind of

"attention" that Judyth has drawn with unceasing harassment, attemtps to take her out, and smears

of the most ignoble kind? And now that I beginning to speak up on her behalf, I receive a death threat

of my own? and the notice of my YouTube interview with her is removed minutes after it had been put

up? and now I cannot get comments posted or submissions even received by papers and magazines?

No one is commenting on this, but to me it speaks volumes about the authenticity of Judyth's account.

With regard to the purported "diagosis", which I had also received from Rich--where I have no reason

to doubt either of their sincerity, unlike others on this forum and thread--notice how it has the ring of

desperation about it. No matter what Judyth might claim, no matter how much she might resemble the

persons she claims to be, it can be dismissed on the ground that she suffers from a rather bizarre and

no doubt quite rare psychological disorder, where she pretends to be someone she is not. Well, that's

fascinating, but could someone like that function successfully in a standard environment as a teacher?

That seems rather doubtful, yet here is the letter of a student who wanted her to be retained when she

became controversial:

It might be claimed that student would not be in the position to render such a diagnosis. Well, then, how

about a professional one:

I rather doubt that some who post junk on this forum could pass a psychological inventory as successfully

as Judyth. So I think we should all take a deep breath and open our minds to the POSSIBILITY, however

unlikely we may view it at this time, that Jim Marrs, Nigel Turner, and I JUST MIGHT BE RIGHT and that

Judyth's legions of detractors MIGHT JUST BE WRONG. Open your mind to the possibility and consider the

evidence before you decide. My contact with her is of relatively recent origin, yet I am learning things from

her that I find quite remarkable and highly plausible. Just try listening to my interview with her once again.

Judyth suffers from Munchausen's syndome.

"FACTITIOUS DISORDER, (of which MUNCHAUSEN SYNDROME is a sub-type), (also called "Adult Munchausen", and "Adult Factitious Disorder") is a formal, DSM-IV mental health diagnosis in which people deliberately exaggerate and/or fabricate and/or induce physical and/or psychological-behavioral-mental health problems in themselves. The primary purpose of this behavior is to gain some form of internal gratification, such as attention, for themselves."

I'm curious to know if Jack White is a psychologist, psychiatrist, physician, or psychotherapist ?????

Do folks on this site now diagnose characters so easily? Should there not be a proper modicum of

respect for others? One can have problems or questions about other people without resorting to

publicly diagnosing them medically or mentally... Do not some members of this very forum seek to gain

some form of internal gratification by posting information? I think it's a sad day when people resort to this

type of tactic. I myself have questions about Ms. Baker but I would never act to diagnose her on a public

forum; this not for the reason that she could file civil suit for slander, but simply because people deserve

a proper degree of respect regardless their personal beliefs. In general, just because a person is legally

insane does not mean that they can't be correct about certain things. I must say, what a herd of individuals

we have here on this forum.

IN ADDITION:

I would also observe that, Jack is going on the basis of the suggestion of Rich DellaRosa's sister,

Denise, who is a psychologist. But Denise, I am quite sure--and I like Denise, whom I met at a

meeting of the Human Behavior and Evolution Society--was simply offering a CONJECTURE

based upon Rich's sketch of someone who, in his opinion, had beliefs he (Rich) thought were

far removed from reality, yet who persisted in defending them. Denise has never met Judyth

or interviewed her. She was offering a SUGGESTION that might fit Rich's description. BUT

THIS CANNOT BE A "DIAGNOSIS" since, having never met Judyth, that would violate APA

ethical guidelines. I have had overwhelmingly more contact with Judyth than those who are

attacking her. Jack discredits Denise by claiming she "diagnosed" Judyth. Enough is enough!

FROM JUDYTH ABOUT THIS "MENTAL HEALTH" CHARGE:

INFORMATION ON THE ATTACHED:

1) MANATEE PALMS RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTER: WORKED THERE SEVERAL

MONTHS UNTIL I GOT CUSTODY OF TWO MORE KIDS, THEN HAD TO QUIT. I WAS

A MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELOR AT MANATEE PALMS. YOU HAVE TO HAVE TRAINING

AND PASS PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATIONS TO OBTAIN SUCH A POSITION.

2) LIFE STEPS: VOLUNTEER MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELOR FOR TEENS IN ORLANDO, FL

3) HAUSER CLINIC: DR, JAMES STEWART, FAMED PARTNER IN THE HAUSER CLINIC AND

NOTED PSYCHIATRIST: I HAD TO PASS STRINGENT PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATIONS TO

WORK IN HIS OFFICE.

I QUIT AT THE END OF THE SUMMER BECAUSE WE MOVED FROM HOUSTON TO A SMALL

TOWN OUTSIDE HOUSTON, AND THE COMMUTE WAS TOO MUCH. HE RETIRED THAT SPRING.

THE PSYCHIATRIC EVALUATIONS WERE LOST. THEY ALSO SHOWED MY IQ AT 155 AND 160,

RESPECTIVELY (STUART--160).

HE WAS GLAD TO HIRE ME AND I LOVED THE JOB. I WORKED CLOSELY WITH HIS PATIENTS.

I WAS ALSO PSYCHOLOGICALLY EVALUATED, TESTED AND TRAINED FOR THE FLORIDA HRS:

THE HEALTH AND REHABILITATION SERVICES OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA, I WAS A CHILD

ABUSE INVESTIGATOR AND MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELOR FOR THE STATE OF FLORIDA

UNTIL A BUDGET CUT REMOVED THE NEWEST PERSONNEL FROM THEIR JOBS.

I HAVE DOCUMENTATION AND TRAINING CERTIFICATES, PROBABLY WITH MY DAUGHTER.

JVB has scads of charming stories about her "romance" with LHO...but NONE OF THEM ARE DOCUMENTED.

When I confronted her on the internet about which Oswald she knew, HARVEY OR LEE, she became incoherent

and nasty...saying there WAS ONLY ONE OSWALD. This sealed it for me...since I know there were two LHOs.

Judyth is a witness, you are a researcher. There are two different paths here. Your beliefs are not first-hand. You operate from an hypothesis which you think is true. Judyth speaks from what she has seen and heard.

Perhaps you could also try thinking in terms of a persecution-hypothesis. You believe it applies to you -- what about applying it to Judyth? You believe you have been targeted and attacked because of what you know about the assassination and the fact that you refuse to be quiet about it. Judyth was terrorized in the US and had no alternative but to leave and try to survive outside of the US. That has been almost impossible as well. If she really knows nothing, why has so much happened to her and those around her? And please don't fall into the ongoing campaign's little trap of saying she's 'making it all up', implying that she 'deserves' what has happened to her, as that is just a pack of lies.

Edited March 13, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Peter McGuire]

My question: Why would ANYONE speak to a total stranger (?) in a FOREIGN LANGUAGE?

Forget an exact translation. I would consider such a person weird.

Then call me weird, Mr. White. When I came back from working overseas I spoke Chinese and Korean to many strangers from time to time. At Chinese and Korean restaurants I would order in the language. I would sometime ask someone ( possibly when waiting in line at a post office, in Chinese or Korean; are you Korean ( Chinese) and struck up many a conversation.

An exact translation? Into what language? Which foreign languages do you speak? What experience to you have even living abroad, Mr. White?

There is an old joke which goes like this,

What do you call a person who speaks three or more languages? Answer: Multilingual.

What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual.

What do you call someone who speaks one language?

An American!

I have observed the ill mannered attacks on Judyth for years now and am quite sick of them. I am so glad to see some sensible people finally on this forum countering those attacks.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Peter McGuire