Dorman Film

[Robin Unger]

I'll add this other pertinent question.

Where is Mrs.Willis in the Dorman frame?

chris

[Robin Unger]

I'll add this other pertinent question.

Where is Mrs.Willis in the Dorman frame?

chris

Tree possibly blocking Elsie Dorman's view of Phil Willis ?

[Kathleen Collins]

Linda & Rosemary Willis in Bronson

I know this picture from Bronson was to illustrate where certain people were right before the assassination, but I'm sure everyone's seen the 6th floor window.

Kathy C

[Chris Davidson]

I'll add this other pertinent question.

Where is Mrs.Willis in the Dorman frame?

chris

Tree possibly blocking Elsie Dorman's view of Phil Willis ?

Robin,

Woman waving her arm which matches the Z film.

But, the Croft figure is walking away from the arm waving women at the moment he should be facing the same way, and getting ready to take a picture.

chris

[Chris Davidson]

Duncan,

That is an outstanding observation.

I would agree by the direction traveled , that it probably is Clint.

I don't think #1 is the other SS agent because the movie I show of the arm waving person, is just that. That matches what we see in Zapruder.

There's the timing problem again:

Clint has not passed the arm waving women in the Z frame you supplied, unless I'm misreading the relation between the two.

Which means that what we see in Zapruder comes later than what we are seeing in the actual film itself.

At least according to the sync between Dorman and Z.

chris

[Robin Unger]

I'll add this other pertinent question.

Where is Mrs.Willis in the Dorman frame?

chris

Tree possibly blocking Elsie Dorman's view of Phil Willis ?

Robin,

Woman waving her arm which matches the Z film.

But, the Croft figure is walking away from the arm waving women at the moment he should be facing the same way, and getting ready to take a picture.

chris

Agreed Chris.

You are correct, it is not Croft

Cheers

Robin.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Chris Davidson]

Robin and all,

Duncan is right. It is Clint Hill.

However:

The waving lady who I pointed out is actually on Croft's immediate right. It is not the one to Willis' immediate left.

I know this because in the previous looped movie I supplied, It only shows her black right arm waving forward, not backward.

This matches Zapruder frame approx 175 and on.

Keep a close eye on her right arm after she steps onto the curb and turns toward the street.

The Z film is off by approx 40 frames in syncing with Dorman.

http://98.155.2.255:8400/0E54F/wave.gif

chris

[Robin Unger]

Exllent GIF Chris.

I had never noticed the lady in black waving before.

Grood eye

This warrants further investigation.

Great Job

[Robin Unger]

Exllent GIF Chris.

I had never noticed the lady in black waving before.

Grood eye

This warrants further investigation.

Great Job

Chris

I think we are in sink on the identification of the Dorman three.

Young couple, and the man who is seen tiping his hat in Zapruder seen in Dorman

Chris

Notice in the Zapruder Scan above the woman in black behind the BUSH

i had ALWAYS assumed, that she was coming out to view the motorcade ?

Could this be the back of our mysterious woman in black walking away ?

[Robin Unger]

Exllent GIF Chris.

I had never noticed the lady in black waving before.

Grood eye

This warrants further investigation.

Great Job

Chris

I think we are in sink on the identification of the Dorman three.

Young couple, and the man who is seen tiping his hat in Zapruder seen in Dorman

Chris

Notice in the Zapruder Scan above the woman in black behind the BUSH

i had ALWAYS assumed, that she was coming out to view the motorcade ?

Could this be the back of our mysterious woman in black walking away ?

Z-152

Large Groden Scan showing the Woman in black stepping onto the curb.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Chris Davidson]

Robin,

Yes, you do have the couple (arms around each other) and man with hat correctly identified in both Dorman and Z.

The girl that comes down the steps actually stops at the bottom and stays there.

The gentleman who follows her down the steps moves out toward the street a little farther than she does.

But the important person is the woman who steps back up onto the sidewalk immediately to Crofts right side.

She is the one I had indicated (red box) as waving her right arm only forward at approx Z frame 175.

Which is when Clint appears to have passed her by, validating what is seen in Dorman.

These two films are out of order.

What we see in Dorman with Clint Hill passing the waving woman is occuring long before it should in Z. (Approx 40 frames earlier.)

Long ago I informed everyone that Myer's sync analysis had a problem by stating Towner's camera was filming at 23 FPS.

With this he states all films sync from beginning to end plus or minus 1 frame. He did not do any speed tests on the camera, he simply plugged in a number that fit with the other films.

Here is what I'm trying to show you:

Towner's film consists of 168 frames supposedly. I think this is probably valid.

Myer's has it as 168 frames/23 FPS= 7.3 seconds.

I say with the films being approx 40 frames off, that =2.25 seconds going by 18 frames per second for Z and Towner.

168 frames/17.6 FPS= 9.56 seconds

9.56 seconds(17.6 FPS) - 7.3 seconds(23FPS)= 2.26 seconds

The 40 frame difference explains the problem with Myer's 23FPS mistake with Towner's camera.

Towner's camera was made to shoot at 18 FPS. It states it in the manual, And I long ago revealed, with my own test results that it was between 17 and 18.

A little more to come in a bit.

chris

[Chris Davidson]

Once again,

If we use Myer's film sync formula:

Towner's film is 168 frames/23FPS=7.3 seconds.

Zapruder's opening segment without the limo is 132 frames /18 FPS=7.33 seconds.

Coincidence, I think not.

If Towner's real FPS is closer to 18, and Z is 18, someone would have a nice film timeclock to work with, if they too had started filming as the limo turned onto Elm St., as Towner did.

Where could you bury/hide 2.25 seconds. How about in a turn from Houston onto Elm.

A little wider/narrow turn would do the trick and wouldn't be too apparent from different filming angles.

chris

[Robin Unger]

In the Z-frame above Z180

Where is the waving woman ?

Is she hidden behind Croft ?

[Robin Unger]

So much has been made of the Rosemary Willis head turn.

but it wasn't the first head turn she did.

5-Frame GIF showing Rosemary Willis's FIRST head turn in Dorman.

It is not my intention to say that the first head turn was due to a shot being fired !

I beleive it was just to track the position of the limo, so that she could alighn herself with it

Edited April 17, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Chris Davidson]

Once again,

If we use Myer's film sync formula:

Towner's film is 168 frames/23FPS=7.3 seconds.

Zapruder's opening segment without the limo is 132 frames /18 FPS=7.33 seconds.

Coincidence, I think not.

If Towner's real FPS is closer to 18, and Z is 18, someone would have a nice film timeclock to work with, if they too had started filming as the limo turned onto Elm St., as Towner did.

Where could you bury/hide 2.25 seconds. How about in a turn from Houston onto Elm.

A little wider/narrow turn would do the trick and wouldn't be too apparent from different filming angles.

chris

This is Croft or someone who is supposed to be Croft .38 seconds before Z133.

The problem is the mystery man, the shadow figure to the right.

In a previous supplied animation, I show this figure moving away from Croft. (Post 19)

The timing between Dorman(which is the film this frame is from) and Z133 is supposed to be approx .38 seconds.

This figure does not appear in Z at all.

This is hard evidence that the Z film has been altered.

chris

Edited April 18, 2010 by Chris Davidson