Robert Harris's Broken 3rd Floor Daltex Window Theory Blown Out Of The Water

[Dean Hagerman]

Am I really the only guy around here who gives a damn about the assassination?

No, but you are the only one who cares about a Scissors Snipping Venentian Blinds Window Smashing Assassin firing a missed shot from the Daltex as the limo turns the corner on to Elm, causing Kennedy to never smile again after balling his hand in to a fist and then calmly wiping the sharp non wound inflicting flying ashphalt debris from his hair.

[Bill Miller]

[ name=Robert Harris' date='26 November 2010 - 04:55 AM' timestamp='1290740157' post='213205]

And I am getting a bit tired of hearing your self-serving gibberish about riding in a car and being able to see to the rear via peripheral vision. We all have peripheral vision, Bill. Had she noticed JFK in that outlandish position, she would have instantly turned to him which is exactly what she did, once she noticed that. If her peripheral vision was superhuman and she could have actually spotted JFK's hands up to his neck with elbows above his shouders at 229, SHE WOULD HAVE LOOKED AT HIM THEN. She would have turned all the way to the rear instead of staring at her husband continuously. Your arguments are idiotic, Bill. Is Duncan helping you with this?

So now you know what Nellie would have done and will disregard what she said she did. I am surprised that you haven't busted the case wide open with your amazing and seemingly clairvoyant ability. I think about everyone has given interviews with general references only to later offer more details. Nellie went out of her way in 1966 to offer a more detailed explanation for the things she witnessed ... you seem to not want to believe her. I ask myself why if you have believed this to be the case for years ... why didn't you write to Nellie and raise this issue with her?

And when after the moment that you have chosen for the mystery shot around Z285 did Connally buckle over and turn to his right?? As I said many times ... Nellie said that she saw these things happen immediately after the second shot hit her husband.

And again ... name a witness that said they heard a shot at Z185???

Watch him in the Zapruder film paying particular attention to his mouth. He speaks TWICE, just as the lip readers said he did, first beginning just after 240 and then again after he falls back to Nellie. The first was "Oh, no..." and the second was "They're going to kill us all.".

So you think Connally saw the blood on his shirt from just having part of his 5th rib blasted and he said 'Oh, no, no' .... yeah right!

She said that she saw him then, many times throughout her life.

"I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck."

I can't believe the crap you post to this forum.

Her statement is true ... she gave a general statement. She later offered a more detailed accounting and said she saw the President's hands come up to his face. Sorry that you can't accept it, but that is your problem ... go tell it to the Youtube boobs!

I'm afraid there are a helluva lot of other boobs out there who also believe he was hit by debris from at least one of those shots

Yes, especially when they just take your word about smashed out windows and sudden fist closings, and Kennedy never smiling again. But those who actually check your claims for accuracy haven't seemed to be that impressed.

But what makes you the disingenuous hypocrite that you are is, that YOU ALSO believe that Nellie, Powers and Holland were wrong in believing that Connally was hit by a different shot than the one that hit JFK, don't you Bill?

I do not know where you are getting this nonsense ... are you not taking your meds? I said JFK was hit before going behind the sign and Connally after coming out from behind the sign. I have posted countless animations detailing my opinion and how I reached and yet you continue to misstate it ... that is a personal problem that you must deal with.

And why do you evade the fact that other people got the same mistaken impression that she did? Here is a clue Bill. THEY heard the shot at 285 also and presumed that it hit Connally - just like Nellie did.

Nellie said her husband buckled, recoiled, yelled out that they were all going to be killed, she pulled him back towards her all after hearing the second shot. So seeing how she has said that she only heard three shots and the third being the one that hit the President in the head, I must ask for you to explain where she said she heard a shot at Z285??? I am afraid that your position can't hold water.

Read Holland's statement again. He ALSO saw the Governor twist to the rear, toward JFK and then back to the front between 230 and just before 285 and thought the 285 shot knocked him down. Of course, that's why you deleted his statement, isn't it?

I believe Holland is talking about Connally's head turn which Sam could have seen from the underpass. There is no body twist back to the left seen on the Zfilm.

"The first bullet, the President slumped over and Governor Connally made his turn to the right and then back to the left and that's when the second shot was fired and knocked him down to the floorboard."

That's right and Connally demonstrated that turn for the Commission press cameras ... you really should find and listen to the wording of that press interview. Just because you thought Connally was talking about a full body twist ... that doesn't make it what Connally meant. I believe the press interview was done on the same day he testified to the Commission, so there should be no confusing what he meant when he said 'turned to my right'.

Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

Based on the Zapruder film blur analysis study, Alvarez and Wyckoff concluded that there was no shot at Z285.

Harris ignores the study which is explained in the video below, to self promote his, and his only, shot at Z285 agenda.

They even said that what blurs they saw 'could have been' shots. The test subjects they used were not reported to have Vertigo ... and in frames before the first shot was heard post the Betzner photo (Z186) ... Zapruder's Vertigo was blurring reference points like the windows in the wall that was referenced in the clip.

Then if this is bad enough .... Harris embraces this blur theory and claims a shot was fired at Z185, but Zapruder said he only heard two shots ... the first causing JFK to slump and the second shot hitting JFK in the head. The two moments that Zapruder gives for those shots do not support him hearing a shot at Z185 so to blur his film. As usual, Bob's claims do not hold water when scrutinized.

Mr. ZAPRUDER - I heard the first shot and I saw the President lean over and grab himself like this (holding his left chest area)

Mr. ZAPRUDER - Leaning--leaning toward the side of Jacqueline. For a moment I thought it was, you know, like you say, "Oh, he got me," when you hear a shot--you've heard these expressions and then I saw---I don't believe the President is going to make jokes like this, but before I had a chance to organize my mind, I heard a second shot and then I saw his head opened up and the blood and everything came out and I started--I can hardly talk about it [ the witness crying].

Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

First of all, you need to read Alvarez's original paper to the Journal of American Physics instead of the CBS filtered version, in which Alvarez talked a great deal about the "noise" at 285 which he concluded, startled both Greer and Zapruder.

Zapruder said that the second shot he heard was the one that hit JFK in the head ... the first shot being the one that caused JFK to raise his arms to his chest. So there was no shot at Z185 that Zapruder claimed to hear that would cause him to blur his film.

Zapruder had Vertigo plain and simple. Common sense should tell someone that once the car was moving quickly from left to right as the limo was now directly below his pedestal ... a man with Vertigo would be even more unsteady while trying to keep up with the car and keeping his balance at the same time. I'm afraid you (Harris) relied on an erred theory on Alverez's part.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/infojfk/jfk6/blur.htm

102: " A fifth episode E possibly associated with a shot occurs at frames 290-293. Although it contains a very small blur detected both Hartmann and Scott as well as a more substantial blur in Alvarez data, the Panel found no visual indications of reactions to a shot by the limousine's occupants coinciding with this segment of blur in the film. "

Bill Miller

Edited November 26, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Robert Harris]

First of all, you need to read Alvarez's original paper to the Journal of American Physics instead of the CBS filtered version, in which Alvarez talked a great deal about the "noise" at 285 which he concluded, startled both Greer and Zapruder.

Zapruder said that the second shot he heard was the one that hit JFK in the head ... the first shot being the one that caused JFK to raise his arms to his chest. So there was no shot at Z185 that Zapruder claimed to hear that would cause him to blur his film.

Zapruder had Vertigo plain and simple. Common sense should tell someone that once the car was moving quickly from left to right as the limo was now directly below his pedestal ... a man with Vertigo would be even more unsteady while trying to keep up with the car and keeping his balance at the same time. I'm afraid you (Harris) relied on an erred theory on Alverez's part.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/infojfk/jfk6/blur.htm

102: " A fifth episode E possibly associated with a shot occurs at frames 290-293. Although it contains a very small blur detected both Hartmann and Scott as well as a more substantial blur in Alvarez data, the Panel found no visual indications of reactions to a shot by the limousine's occupants coinciding with this segment of blur in the film. "

Bill Miller

Yes Bill, I know exactly what Mrs. Connally would have done if she noticed JFK with his elbows hiked above his shoulders. She would have looked at him.

I know that for the same reason that every sane person on the planet who is even marginally honest knows it. And I know it because that's exactly what she did. You insult everyone's intelligence when you claim otherwise, even those who lack the integrity to admit it.

And yes, of course I believe Connally who said he was hit before he shouted. You know very well that he was wounded at 223 and we can all see his mouth moving after that, including the experts. Funny though, you would think that Robin and the other graphics types would have a comment on that. I guess they're just feeling a bit bashful today.

Let's see, what's next. Ahh! You are arguing apparently, that if he saw blood on his chest, he wouldn't holler. Am I reading you right, Bill?? I don't want to humiliate you, so I won't respond to that until you confirm what you said. And while you're at it, please explain why he was capable of saying "They're going to kill us all." but incapable of saying "Oh, no, no, no".

Ok, your next argument is that Mrs. Connally's statement, "I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck." was false. And why? Well, because years later her memory improved and she then realized that his hands were NOT up to his neck when she looked back!

Is that what you are claiming Bill?

I guess the minor fact that it was impossible for her to have seen JFK in the 220's doesn't bother you at all, nor does the fact that she heard that shot some time AFTER she turned toward JFK.

"Her statement is true ... she gave a general statement. She later offered a more detailed accounting and said she saw the President's hands come up to his face. Sorry that you can't accept it, but that is your problem ... go tell it to the Youtube boobs!"

I don't think I have to go to Youtube to find the boobs, Bill BTW, you really seem to like that LIFE article from 1966, so why didn't you cite this statement by Nellie?

"First I heard the shot, or a strange loud noise - I'm not that expert on rifles - back behind us. Then next I turned to my right and saw the President gripping at his throat. Then I turned back toward John, and I heard the second shot that hit John."

Now, there are two important facts in that statement. First, when she looked back, JFK was already "gripping his throat". That's a perfect match for her statement to the WC that his hands were already up, don't you agree Bill? I guess that after only 2-3 years, her memory hadn't improved enough to really get it right, eh

And second, she then turned back toward her husband, which is precisely what she did after 258, BEFORE hearing the shot that she believed, wounded him. So, even if you were correct that she saw him earlier, out of the corner of her eye, that wouldn't matter because she STILL had to turn toward JFK and then back to her husband again, before she heard that shot.

Either way, we are post 258 for that shot, don't you agree Bill?

"I believe Holland is talking about Connally's head turn which Sam could have seen from the underpass. There is no body twist back to the left seen on the Zfilm."

I'm afraid there was Bill - and not just because JBC, Nellie, Powers and Holland said so. We can all see it ourselves - between about 230 and the mid 280's even those of us who pretend otherwise

"That's right and Connally demonstrated that turn for the Commission press cameras ... you really should find and listen to the wording of that press interview."

Bill, you really don't get it, do you? It doesn't matter in the slightest, what JBC "thought" happened. His turn to the rear and back to the front match perfectly with what Mrs. Connally, Holland and Powers saw and reported - regardless of what he was thinking at the time.

It is THEIR recollections which confirm that the second shot they heard, came after he turned to the rear and back during those critical frames.

Look at the video again. Watch him swing to the rear and then back, then you can say BANG Bill, because at the same instant where those witnesses placed the shot they believed hit Connally, every nonvictim in the limousine was reacting simultaneously among themselves and Abraham Zapruder.

And speaking of Zapruder - You need to really listen to the man. In his first, televised interview, he said the limo was about "halfway down there" when the first shot was fired. He told the WC it was almost "in line" with his position. Pull out your DP diagram, Bill. The limo was almost 90 degrees, straight across at 285, and it was indeed, almost halfway between Houston and the overpass, or at least, much closer than pre-223.

Like Clint Hill, Charles Brehm and many others, Zapruder didn't hear any shots prior to 285 and his statements prove it.

BTW, you should read Bowers testimony too. He heard three shots after the limo had passed out of his view, as the pergola came between him and the President. It's fairly easy to draw a line confirming when that happened, which turns out to be in the late 250's.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Robert Harris

[Bill Miller]

I'm afraid there was Bill - and not just because JBC, Nellie, Powers and Holland said so. We can all see it ourselves - between about 230 and the mid 280's even those of us who pretend otherwise

"That's right and Connally demonstrated that turn for the Commission press cameras ... you really should find and listen to the wording of that press interview."

Bill, you really don't get it, do you? It doesn't matter in the slightest, what JBC "thought" happened. His turn to the rear and back to the front match perfectly with what Mrs. Connally, Holland and Powers saw and reported - regardless of what he was thinking at the time.

It is THEIR recollections which confirm that the second shot they heard, came after he turned to the rear and back during those critical frames.

Look at the video again. Watch him swing to the rear and then back, then you can say BANG Bill, because at the same instant where those witnesses placed the shot they believed hit Connally, every nonvictim in the limousine was reacting simultaneously among themselves and Abraham Zapruder.

Nellie said he recoiled to his right after being shot. Connally said and demonstrated himself before the commission that he turned his head .... said the same in the Life interview. You continually leave those things out ... I just believe that you started with a conclusion like you have done most everything else and when your evidence is weighed - it doesn't add up.

And speaking of Zapruder - You need to really listen to the man. In his first, televised interview, he said the limo was about "halfway down there" when the first shot was fired. He told the WC it was almost "in line" with his position. Pull out your DP diagram, Bill. The limo was almost 90 degrees, straight across at 285, and it was indeed, almost halfway between Houston and the overpass, or at least, much closer than pre-223.

The limo can be said to be out in front of Zapruder at Z313 as well, so which is he talking about - Z285 or Z313 ..... when you hear Zapruder say that the second shot he heard is the one that exploded JFK's head, then only a fool would still say Zapruder was talking about Z285. Would you like to go on record as saying Zapruder got the head shot wrong too?

Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

name='Robert Harris' date='27 November 2010 - 02:30 AM' <br>Like Clint Hill, Charles Brehm and many others, Zapruder didn't hear any shots prior to 285 and his statements prove it.

Do you not read a response before answering .... Now I supposed Zapruder got it wrong because Baghdad Bob Harris said he didn't hear the first shot.

Mr. ZAPRUDER - I heard the first shot and I saw the President lean over and grab himself like this (holding his left chest area)

Mr. HILL.- Well, as we came out of the curve, and began to straighten

up, I was viewing the area which looked to be a park. There were people

scattered throughout the entire park. And I heard a noise from my right

rear, which to me seemed to be a firecracker. I immediately looked to

my right and, in so doing, my eyes had to cross the Presidential

limousine and I saw President Kennedy grab at himself and lurch forward

and to the left.

These witnesses said when they heard the first shot that they saw JFK react to it. JFK's reaction is seen on the Zapruder film starting before he went behind the road sign and well before Z285.

In the future, please quote the witness and then maybe you won't be misstating the facts so often. I find it amazing that your claims like those just addressed can be found to be in such gross error and yet you continue to hold onto the same conclusion.

Thanks!

Bill Miller

Edited November 27, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Robert Harris]

"Nellie said he recoiled to his right after being shot. Connally said and demonstrated himself before the commission that he turned his head .... said the same in the Life interview. You continually leave those things out ..."[/i]

I am trying to understand what your point is. Please elaborate and tell us what you think her "recoiled to the right" statement proves.

[Robert Harris]

Where in hell did you and your fellow victim of arrested development come up with "Baghdad Bob"? I feel like I am in 7th grade again, except most kids do a better job of name calling than that

But since you obviously are clueless about Clint Hill, this article which I wrote some time ago, should be helpful to you:

Clint Hill said he only heard two shots during the DP attack. If we could

figure out when he actually heard those shots, and which one he

overlooked, we would be that much closer to understanding what happened,

and particularly, the shooting pattern.

Fortunately, Hill gave us several critical clues. This is from his

original treasury dept. report, as he described the first of the two shots

he heard:

"On the left hand side was a grass area with a few people scattered along

it observing the motorcade passing, and I was visually scanning these

people when I heard a noise similar to a firecracker..."

Hill gives us two clues here. First, he tells us that he was looking to

his left and scanning a small group in a grassy area when the first of

those two shots was fired.

All we have to do then, is to look at him in the Zfilm and try to figure

out when he turned to his left to scan those people. But here, we run into

a problem. I have looked at him in extreme blowups in the MPI DVD and

cannot see him ever doing such a thing.

Now granted, Hill does get a bit blurry in some of those early frames, so

perhaps we might imagine him making a quick, leftward glance that we can't

see. But fortunately, we get a good look at him in frames Z160-161 and

Z224, the two areas where 'nutters and many other researchers believe

early shots were fired. Hill is very obviously, not turned to his left,

and not scanning any people over there, at those points.

But we lose Hill for some time, in even the wide version of the Zfilm, by

about Z250. In fact, the Z255 Altgens photo is our last glimpse of him

until after he jumps from the running board, almost simultaneous with the

Z312 head wound. Therefore, if Hill's recollection was correct, then it

would seem that he must have turned to the left, scanning that small

crowd, and then hear the shot, after Z255.

The other clue in that same paragraph, is that Hill described the people

he was scanning as "observing the motorcade passing.", at the instant he

heard that shot. His description of "a grass area with a few people

scattered along it.." really doesn't sound like the larger crowd at the

intersection of Houston and Elm. After the limo passed them, and two men

just south of them, the motorcade passed in front of Brehm and his son,

Babushka lady, Jean Hill and Mary Moorman.

Interestingly, the limo does indeed, pass in front of that group,

beginning at Z285 when it comes directly between Zapruder and Brehm. More

interestingly perhaps, Brehm, Jean Hill and Moorman, unanimously described

the first of a series of shots just as the limo passed in front of them.

So, if Hill and these other witnesses were correct, then their testimonies

would certainly corroborate a gunshot at Z285.

Another powerful clue about when Hill actually turned to scan the crowd on

his left, comes from comparing his position in the Altgens (Z255) photo

with his position in the wide version of the Zapruder film, a third of a

second earlier. As late as Z-249, Hill is turned sharply, almost 90

degrees, to his right, probably examining the strange looking "umbrella

man" whose umbrella was hiked far above his head.

In the Z-255 photo, he is still in a rightward orientation, but at a much

smaller angle. During less than a third of a second, he has spun roughly

45-60 degrees back to his left, or toward that same small crowd on the

south side of Elm St, that the President's limo would soon pass.

That puts Hill in perfect position to be "scanning" that crowd, just

before being startled by the Z-285 shot.

But Hill's most powerful clue comes from an error. This is the critical

part of his WC testimony:

Representative FORD. Did you see the President put his hands to his throat

and chest while you were still on the followup car, or after you had left

it?

Mr. HILL. As I was leaving. And that is one of the reasons I jumped,

because I saw him grab himself and pitch forward and to the left. I knew

something was wrong.

(unquote)

Of course Hill was mistaken in claiming that Kennedy first reacted at the

same time he jumped from the running board. That happened much earlier.

But this confirms two extremely important points.

First, Hill was unaware that the President was injured until just before

Z312, when he leaped onto the pavement. This is consistent with our view

of him in the Altgens photo, where he is the only man on the running

boards who has not reacted to the first audible shot. It also explains why

he did not jump off the running board earlier than about Z310-312.

And second, Hill heard that first of two shots immediately before Z312.

None of Hill's testimony makes sense until we understand that there was a

gunshot at Zapruder frame 285, and that he recognized no shots until that

point. This is what provoked him to leap from the running board.

After that shot, we see near-simultaneous reactions by Mrs. Kennedy, Mrs.

Connally, SA Kellerman, SA Greer, and Jean Hill, as well as Zapruder's

startle reaction that resulted in a series of blurred frames.

Hill's was the 7th.

Robert Harris

[Robert Harris]

First of all, you need to read Alvarez's original paper to the Journal of American Physics instead of the CBS filtered version, in which Alvarez talked a great deal about the "noise" at 285 which he concluded, startled both Greer and Zapruder.

Zapruder said that the second shot he heard was the one that hit JFK in the head ... the first shot being the one that caused JFK to raise his arms to his chest. So there was no shot at Z185 that Zapruder claimed to hear that would cause him to blur his film.

Zapruder had Vertigo plain and simple. Common sense should tell someone that once the car was moving quickly from left to right as the limo was now directly below his pedestal ... a man with Vertigo would be even more unsteady while trying to keep up with the car and keeping his balance at the same time. I'm afraid you (Harris) relied on an erred theory on Alverez's part.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/infojfk/jfk6/blur.htm

102: " A fifth episode E possibly associated with a shot occurs at frames 290-293. Although it contains a very small blur detected both Hartmann and Scott as well as a more substantial blur in Alvarez data, the Panel found no visual indications of reactions to a shot by the limousine's occupants coinciding with this segment of blur in the film. "

Bill Miller

And Bill, when you consider Zapruder, you must once again rely on the golden rule which in this case is, that you only go with the earliest statements. In Zapruder's case that is particularly important because obviously, after he sees his film, he will realize that JFK was wounded earlier than he thought he was.

In fact, if you listen to his first interview, you will hear him say that he originally thought that JFK was just kidding around. But we know he only heard two of the shots, so it is important to understand which two he heard.

The fact that the limo was "halfway" down Elm St and "in line" with his position, when the first of those two shots were fired, makes it crystal clear that like numerous other witnesses, he did not hear any of the early shots. And in fact, most witnesses who did hear one of them, said it was much different and weaker than the shots that at the end. Many, like Zapruder and Hill didn't hear it at all. So it makes perfect sense that Zapruder only heard the shots at 285 and 312.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Robert Harris

[Bill Miller]

"Nellie said he recoiled to his right after being shot. Connally said and demonstrated himself before the commission that he turned his head .... said the same in the Life interview. You continually leave those things out ..."[/i]

I am trying to understand what your point is. Please elaborate and tell us what you think her "recoiled to the right" statement proves.

OK ... I'll play along and pretend that you do not know the point I am making.

You have been contending that Nellie didn't hear the shot back when Connally was really wounded and that the shot she heard came around Z285 ... is that correct?

My point has been and still is .... that Nellie said that she witnessed certain events in chronological order. Upon hearing the second noise/shot that she saw her husband buckle and recoil to his right which put his back to her. She says that she then pulled her slumped husband back towards her and put her head next to his so to assure him that he'll be alright. Is that a fair assessment?

My point to you is that Nellie started reaching to her slumped husband so to pull him toward her before Z280 where Connally starts his glide backwards onto his wife, which implies that before an alleged Z285 shot was fired ... she already knew her husband had been wounded.

Each thing she witnessed before pulling her husband back to her also took up time and all these things according to Nellie had come AFTER hearing the second shot and BEFORE Z280 when she started pulling her husband back to her.

Bill Miller

Edited November 27, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

Where in hell did you and your fellow victim of arrested development come up with "Baghdad Bob"? I feel like I am in 7th grade again, except most kids do a better job of name calling than that

You post like you are in 7th grade, as well! The term 'Baghdad Bob' for you has been several times in the past because you constantly say the opposite of what can be shown to be true.

One of the things that I see that inhibits your assessments is that you don't consider that people look from right to left by merely shifting their eyes and not always by turning their entire head. I can't see Hill's eyes under his sunglasses, so I must rely on his saying that when he heard the loud noise ... he scanned across the President so to see JFK react to being shot. Hill is talking about the shot that came between the Betzner and Willis photos.

The second shot Hill describes as being the one that exploded JFK's head, so to me it sounds like Hill is talking about the Z313 shot as the second noise he heard.

Bill Miller

Edited November 27, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

And Bill, when you consider Zapruder, you must once again rely on the golden rule which in this case is, that you only go with the earliest statements. In Zapruder's case that is particularly important because obviously, after he sees his film, he will realize that JFK was wounded earlier than he thought he was.

In fact, if you listen to his first interview, you will hear him say that he originally thought that JFK was just kidding around. But we know he only heard two of the shots, so it is important to understand which two he heard.

The fact that the limo was "halfway" down Elm St and "in line" with his position, when the first of those two shots were fired,

Zapruder may have said it looked like JFK was playing around like 'Oh ... they got me!'... but that was just a descriptive impression Zapruder had upon hearing the loud noise. However, we know that JFK wasn't playing around .... or do you not know this?

Zapruder said that when the first shot was heard by him that the President grabbed himself and slumped to his left. This observation that Zapruder describes is seen on the Zapruder film well before Z285 is it not??? The next shot Zapruder describes was the kill shot to JFK.

And also, 'half way down' in Zapruder terms means after just getting onto Elm Street that the limo was halfway down the street from the corner intersection to his position on the pedestal. The shot that caused JFK to grab himself also came between the top of the street and Zapruder's position.I believe that if you think a little more about this, then you'll be forced to agree.

Bill Miller

Edited November 27, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

Duplicate post deleted

Edited November 27, 2010 by Bill Miller