Robert Harris's Broken 3rd Floor Daltex Window Theory Blown Out Of The Water

[Robin Unger]

JFK the movie GIF

Just a few of the things i noticed in this GIF

(1) Occupants of the limo appear to be thrown forward.

(2) Connally leaning back into Nellie as he continually talks to any one who will listen.

(3) The Greer double head turn.

Thrown forwardd is possibly a bad choice of words.

It is obviously a reaction to the headshot.

[Robin Unger]

I don't see the slowing down very much at this point.

Watch the white item on the grass, if the car had slowed down so would the travel of the item across the screen.

[Bill Miller]

The Nix film shows the slowing of the limo quite clearly and didn't Dolva and others show those films to be in sync.

Bill

Edited November 25, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Robert Harris]

JFK the movie GIF

Just a few of the things i noticed in this GIF

(1) Occupants of the limo appear to be thrown forward.

(2) Connally leaning back into Nellie as he continually talks to any one who will listen.

(3) The Greer double head turn.

Thrown forwardd is possibly a bad choice of words.

It is obviously a reaction to the headshot.

Yes, of course they reacted to the shot at 312. They were exposed to a sharp, extremely loud shock wave just as they were at 285, although at 285 the bullet didn't hit anyone and may have passed at a greater distance from them than the bullet did at 312.

There had to be a reason why the reactions following 285 were not as pronounced as the ones following 312. And in fact, Alvarez talked about a series of blurring episodes that followed the startling noises, in increments of a third of a second, or about 6 frames.

We see exactly that following 312, at 318, 324 and 331.

Now, look at the same sequence albeit not as pronounced, following 285 at 290-291, 296 and 302-303.

DPD officer Foster said a missed shot struck the concrete surrounding the storm drain on the south side of Elm. If Oswald fired that shot at 285 then it passed squarely over the center of the limo but about 15 feet above the passengers heads.

If that is what happened then to the ears of the passengers, the shock wave at 285 would have been less than half as loud as the one that followed at 312.

[Bill Miller]

[ name=Robert Harris' date='25 November 2010 - 07:28 PM' timestamp='1290709723' post='213158]

Jackie BTW, was not dropping her head in order to examine her husband's neck as skeptics try to argue after they forgot that they were claiming that she was thrown forward by the slowdown In fact, in the clearest Zapruder frames of her then, we can see that she was ducking and looking down and away from him.

You sure, Robert? It looks to me like she's just inspecting his jacket for rogue pieces of debris that he may have accidentally brushed on to his jacket from his hair.

There is Harris using the word 'We' again! Remember what he said about no one confusing cycle backfires for gunshots ... I have posted two witnesses from inside the limo who said it ... now Jackie: "You know, there is always noise in a motorcade and there are always motorcycles, besides us, a lot of them backfiring. So I was looking to the left. I guess there was a noise, but it didn't seem like any different noise really because there is so much noise, motorcycles and things".

And about Jackie and what she thought of what was going on with her husband, "And all I remember is seeing my husband, he had this sort of quizzical look on his face, and his hand was up, it must have been his left hand."

Jackie didn't seem to know just what was wrong with her husband and when the kill show came - she reacted to the explosion of debris coming from her husbands head.

Bill Miller

[Robert Harris]

Jackie BTW, was not dropping her head in order to examine her husband's neck as skeptics try to argue after they forgot that they were claiming that she was thrown forward by the slowdown In fact, in the clearest Zapruder frames of her then, we can see that she was ducking and looking down and away from him.

You sure, Robert? It looks to me like she's just inspecting his jacket for rogue pieces of debris that he may have accidentally brushed on to his jacket from his hair.

No it doesn't.

[Bill Miller]

Yes, of course they reacted to the shot at 312. They were exposed to a sharp, extremely loud shock wave just as they were at 285, although at 285 the bullet didn't hit anyone and may have passed at a greater distance from them than the bullet did at 312.

There had to be a reason why the reactions following 285 were not as pronounced as the ones following 312. And in fact, Alvarez talked about a series of blurring episodes that followed the startling noises, in increments of a third of a second, or about 6 frames.

Robert,

Alvarez would be better off making guitars .... the name is already well known in the music field.

Now we have heard when the first two shots were fired ... Connally was seen buckling over and then recoiling to his right after he was hit. He had time to see the blood on his shirt and time to yell out 'My God, they're going to kill us all!" Nellie had time to pull her husband back onto her and get up in his ear and say 'It's going to be alright'.

Now Harris ... I know of not a single witness who claimed to hear a shot at Z285 ... would you please tell me what witness claimed to hear a shot at that time???

And what about those blurring episodes .... isn't that what one would expect from a man suffering vertigo when every shake from balance problems seems to record either panning blur or motion blur.

Bill Miller

Edited November 25, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Robin Unger]

The Nix film shows the slowing of the limo quite clearly and didn't Dolva and others show those films to be in sync.

Bill

Bill.

Chris Davidson posted a very nice GIF, showing a distinct slow down just as Hill reached out for the grab rail on the limo.

as you mentioned,i believe Greer may have seen him coming.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robert Harris]

Your refusal to accept her earliest testimony is irresponsible and shameful - as if you actually believe that her memory improved after a decade or more passed.

Nellie has always said that she saw her husband buckle and recoil to the shot ... its in her Commission testimony ... is it not!

Nellie Connally: "Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right, he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."

Also, her Life interview also makes this clear and it was done 3 years after the assassination JFK.

And when you can't find some isolated contradiction, forty years after the event, you just arbitrarily dismiss the most important parts of these testimonies, like Mrs. Connally's clear statement that she heard that second shot AFTER she looked back and saw JFK in distress - and her repeated statement that she never looked to the rear again after she heard that shot.

Like I said before ... she listed several things in sequence that she had witnessed and that cannot be ignored. She may have looked back and not remembered it ... one would be a fool to not consider that her memory won't be exact on every point. However, the sequence she gives of her husbands reactions to being shot cannot be understated and is why so many people disagree with your reckless claims. The one time that you show her looking back ... who knows what she is looking at ... was it JFK or to see from where the shots are coming from? Nellie's wording of not looking back again refers to her seeing the President and you seem to have put too much in what you think she meant by this and this is why she and her husband did the interview with Life Magazine so to put an end to boobs second guessing what she meant about certain things.

You seem to want to move it back to 223, which contradicts everything the Connally's said and everything we see them do in the Zfilm, not to mention the testimonies and visible actions of the other passengers in the limo.

The transfer of energy is a science. To date you have not offered a shred of rebuttal as to why Connally's shoulder was shoved forward and downward at the rate it is seen on the Zapruder film as he makes a noticeable grimace at the same time. And if you look close ... you might see that Connally's being hit in the right shoulder caused his body to twist LEFTWARD towards Nellie ... this is called a primary reaction. Connally then recoiled back to his left in the direction of the wounding ... this is called a secondary reaction.

One more thing I have withheld and now its time to mention it ... Gary Murr did a study on Connally's clothing and are you aware that his test showed it to take around 5 seconds for the blood to soak through the material. Apply this to the clips I have presented.

And then you arbitrarily dismiss the statements of professional lip readers who confirmed that John Connally said "Oh, no, no, no" beginning at frame 242, under the pretense that they did not have a good enough version of the Zapruder film to see the man's mouth moving.

This is a hoot! Did not someone post that you have that wrong and that it was Connally saying they were all going to be killed? And did you not know that Connally said that he uttered 'Oh no, no, no ... during that head glance to his right to see if he could see the President.

I have discussed and debated this issue for years, against some of the most fanatical nutters you ever saw. They had Phd's from places like Berkely and Harvard and frequently tried to argue that the Connally's were full of crap, but NOT ONE was dishonest enough to take the positions you are trying to assume.

What is even more shameful is that your teammates sit there without expressing a single word of disgust as you attempt to distort your country's historical record.

Would those be the same PhDs who didn't see JFK smiling and waving after you wrongly said he had made a fist from being hit in the head with asphalt as the limo passed through Tina Towner's film??? You are like the Baghdad Bob of the JFK field. So LNrs didn't agree with you and now we know that many CTs do not agree with you as well.

And you know what you can do with your 'dishonest' accusations - don't you! Only a fool would think that just because someone doesn't agree with him that the other party must be being dishonest.

Bill Miller

What planet are you posting from Bill?

I pointed out that you refused to accept Nellie's original statement that she looked back and saw JFK's hands already at neck level and you reply with some gibberish about her saying he "bucked and recoil". You make no sense at all.

And you know very well that it was impossible for her to have seen JFK's arms rise to the level of his neck, which happened before she had even turned far enough to the right to see her husband. Your claim that while she stared at Gov Connally, she was examining JFK via peripheral vision is just pure crap. We can see EXACTLY when she looked back to JFK and that was well into the 250's.

And your saying that I should reject the conclusions of professional lip readers because "somebody told me" to, has to be some kind of goofy joke, isn't it? People who are deaf and well trained at reading lips, get very good at what they do. They have to, to get along in society and in the workplace. And unless he is hiding something from us I'm pretty sure that Pat is neither deaf nor has he had such training.

And they were corroborated over and over again by Governor Connally who was very specific that he shouted "Oh, no, no, no" AFTER he was wounded. This is what he told the WC,

"I immediately, when I was hit I said, “Oh, no, no, no”.

He told the HSCA in 1978,

Mr. CONNALLY. To see if the President was all right, because immediately the thought flashed through my mind that if this was a rifle shot, which I believed it to be, that it was probably an assassination attempt and I was trying to see if anything had happened in the automobile.

Mr. DEVINE. Is that the time that you exclaimed, no, no, or was it later?

Mr. CONNALLY. No, it was a bit later, because I wasn't sure at that point in time that anything had happened, so it was a bit later when I said oh, no, no, no. This was after I realized I had been hit and, then I said my God, they are going to kill us all.

As usual, you are WRONG! It was after he looked to the rear and AFTER he was hit, that he shouted, "Oh, no, no, no".

As for your claim,

"She may have looked back and not remembered it ... one would be a fool to not consider that her memory won't be exact on every point."

Bullxxxx! (time to pretend to be offended ) We can SEE her carry out exactly the actions she described and she was right on the money, every step of the way, except for her obvious error in failing to realize her husband was wounded earlier.

But it's hard to blame her for that. She heard one noise then looked back and saw JFK in distress. Then she heard another noise and saw her husband in distress. The obvious conclusion from her POV was that they were each hit by those respective shots.

And in fact, Nellie was not the only one to make that mistake. Dave Powers, sitting in the car behind the President said,

"..the first shot went off and it sounded to me as if it were a firecracker. I noticed then that the President moved quite far to his left after the shot from the extreme right hand side where he had been sitting. There was a second shot and Governor Connally disappeared from sight and then there was a third shot which took off the top of the President's head..."

S.M. Holland told Mark Lane, (listen closely as he mimics Nellie's perception of her husband's motion)

"The first bullet, the President slumped over and Governor Connally made his turn to the right and then back to the left and that's when the second shot was fired and knocked him down to the floorboard."

Are you getting the picture yet Bill?

Oh well, maybe somebody out there is.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Robert Harris

[Robert Harris]

The Nix film shows the slowing of the limo quite clearly and didn't Dolva and others show those films to be in sync.

Bill

Chris Davidson posted a very nice GIF, showing a distinct slow down just as Hill reached out for the grab rail on the limo.

as you mentioned,i believe Greer may have seen him coming.

Well, that certainly is important Robin.

Why waste time on a little thing like absolute proof that Oswald did not act alone?

[Robert Harris]

And what about those blurring episodes .... isn't that what one would expect from a man suffering vertigo when every shake from balance problems seems to record either panning blur or motion blur.

Bill Miller

Based on the Zapruder film blur analysis study, Alvarez and Wyckoff concluded that there was no shot at Z285.

Harris ignores the study which is explained in the video below, to self promote his, and his only, shot at Z285 agenda.

First of all, you need to read Alvarez's original paper to the Journal of American Physics instead of the CBS filtered version, in which Alvarez talked a great deal about the "noise" at 285 which he concluded, startled both Greer and Zapruder.

And why do you pretend that you didn't read my repeated statements that Alvarez did NOT conclude that 285 was a gunshot? Why are you forever trying to con people into believing that you outed me when all you do is repeat what I already said? Alvarez argued that it wasn't a gunshot for the following reasons:

1. Oswald didn't have time to fire shots at both 285 and 312.

2. The reactions following 285 were not as pronounced as those following 312. Therefore, Oswald could not have fired both shots.

3. He decided that the loud noise might have been a siren.

Of course, he was right about 1 and 2. With benefit of a lot more hindsight, we know that 3 is not even worthy of consideration. And the people who reacted to that "noise" told us over and over again, exactly what they were reacting to.

[Bill Miller]

What planet are you posting from Bill?

I pointed out that you refused to accept Nellie's original statement that she looked back and saw JFK's hands already at neck level and you reply with some gibberish about her saying he "bucked and recoil". You make no sense at all.

I said "buckled", not bucked! It's no wonder your claims are whacked when you can't follow simple English.

And you know very well that it was impossible for her to have seen JFK's arms rise to the level of his neck, which happened before she had even turned far enough to the right to see her husband. Your claim that while she stared at Gov Connally, she was examining JFK via peripheral vision is just pure crap. We can see EXACTLY when she looked back to JFK and that was well into the 250's.

Why would it be impossible when I have stated that I tested her view by riding in her seat in the replica car. Not once have you said that you did the same! You remind me of some fool who wants to tell someone else who's been there all about a place you have never been. I know that I can't be the only researcher who ever paid the few bucks to ride in the replica car and yet not one person has disputed the view that I say that I had .... except you who offers no proof in rebuttal.

As usual, you are WRONG! It was after he looked to the rear and AFTER he was hit, that he shouted, "Oh, no, no, no".

Connally said that he said it upon hearing the first shot and while behind the road sign. I am aware that he has said the opposite elsewhere, but I also have to consider all the evidence. Nellie who wasn't hit with a bullet at that time also said he uttered those words before he was hit. Connally made all this clear in 1966.

Bullxxxx! (time to pretend to be offended ) We can SEE her carry out exactly the actions she described and she was right on the money, every step of the way, except for her obvious error in failing to realize her husband was wounded earlier.

You see her turn rearward .... you claim she looked at the President .... she says she did not. In fact, when did Connally recoil to the right as Nellie claimed she saw after that head turn that you speak of ... take all the time you need.

And in fact, Nellie was not the only one to make that mistake. Dave Powers, sitting in the car behind the President said,

"..the first shot went off and it sounded to me as if it were a firecracker. I noticed then that the President moved quite far to his left after the shot from the extreme right hand side where he had been sitting. There was a second shot and Governor Connally disappeared from sight and then there was a third shot which took off the top of the President's head..."

Yes ... everyone was mistaken except for the boob who claimed asphalt hit JFK in the face as the limo turned onto Elm.

Bill Miller

[Robert Harris]

Sorry Bill. This has to be the stupidest posting I have ever seen in a JFK newsgroup. And I have seen a LOT.

It doesn't matter that I left a letter out of a word. It is still irresponsible and dishonest of you to ignore the original, earliest statement by a key witness, in favor of something years later after she changed what to her, was a trivial detail. Obviously, if she thought it was significant she wouldn't have forgotten. But you have no right to dismiss the fact that she not only SAID she saw JFK after his hands were already up, but we can BOTH see that she wasn't even turned far enough to see her husband at the time that JFK's hands had risen to neck level.

And I am getting a bit tired of hearing your self-serving gibberish about riding in a car and being able to see to the rear via peripheral vision. We all have peripheral vision, Bill. Had she noticed JFK in that outlandish position, she would have instantly turned to him which is exactly what she did, once she noticed that. If her peripheral vision was superhuman and she could have actually spotted JFK's hands up to his neck with elbows above his shouders at 229, SHE WOULD HAVE LOOKED AT HIM THEN. She would have turned all the way to the rear instead of staring at her husband continuously. Your arguments are idiotic, Bill. Is Duncan helping you with this?

"Connally said that he said it upon hearing the first shot and while behind the road sign. I am aware that he has said the opposite elsewhere, but I also have to consider all the evidence."

BS!! You don't consider "all the evidence". You cherry pick thousands of sentences trying to find an isolated contradiction somewhere that serves your purposes. And there is NO evidence that contradicts the fact that he started shouting "Oh, no, no, no" AFTER he was wounded. Not only did the professional lip readers confirm that fact, but we can see it ourselves.

Watch him in the Zapruder film paying particular attention to his mouth. He speaks TWICE, just as the lip readers said he did, first beginning just after 240 and then again after he falls back to Nellie. The first was "Oh, no..." and the second was "They're going to kill us all.".

"You see her turn rearward .... you claim she looked at the President .... she says she did not."

Are you insane?????

She said that she saw him then, many times throughout her life.

"I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck."

I can't believe the crap you post to this forum.

"Yes ... everyone was mistaken except for the boob who claimed asphalt hit JFK in the face as the limo turned onto Elm."

I'm afraid there are a helluva lot of other boobs out there who also believe he was hit by debris from at least one of those shots

But what makes you the disingenuous hypocrite that you are is, that YOU ALSO believe that Nellie, Powers and Holland were wrong in believing that Connally was hit by a different shot than the one that hit JFK, don't you Bill?

So please tell me why you tried to ridicule me for believing the same thing you believe?

And why do you evade the fact that other people got the same mistaken impression that she did? Here is a clue Bill. THEY heard the shot at 285 also and presumed that it hit Connally - just like Nellie did.

Read Holland's statement again. He ALSO saw the Governor twist to the rear, toward JFK and then back to the front between 230 and just before 285 and thought the 285 shot knocked him down. Of course, that's why you deleted his statement, isn't it?

"The first bullet, the President slumped over and Governor Connally made his turn to the right and then back to the left and that's when the second shot was fired and knocked him down to the floorboard."

Would you like to talk about Powers getting that same mistaken impression? Hey! Maybe you can find something forty years later in which he contradicted himself.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Robert Harris

[Robin Unger]

The Nix film shows the slowing of the limo quite clearly and didn't Dolva and others show those films to be in sync.

Bill

Chris Davidson posted a very nice GIF, showing a distinct slow down just as Hill reached out for the grab rail on the limo.

as you mentioned,i believe Greer may have seen him coming.

Well, that certainly is important Robin.

Why waste time on a little thing like absolute proof that Oswald did not act alone?

Don't be a smart ass Robert.

Was my post directed at you

Edited November 26, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robert Harris]

The Nix film shows the slowing of the limo quite clearly and didn't Dolva and others show those films to be in sync.

Bill

Chris Davidson posted a very nice GIF, showing a distinct slow down just as Hill reached out for the grab rail on the limo.

as you mentioned,i believe Greer may have seen him coming.

Well, that certainly is important Robin.

Why waste time on a little thing like absolute proof that Oswald did not act alone?

Don't be a smart ass Robert.

Was my post directed at you

Of course it wasn't directed at me. I just gave you rock solid reasons which proves that Oswald could not have carried out the attack alone.

And that is the problem. You are forever changing the subject to something innocuous and dodging everything that matters. Am I really the only guy around here who gives a damn about the assassination?