Jump to content
The Education Forum

The Difference


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 45
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Daniel, you might be interested in this informative work of jerry mcknight...take care b..

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Essay_-_Bugliosi_Fails_to_Resuscitate_the_Single-Bullet_Theory

Thank you Bernice. A good article, but not completely relevant to issues raised in the 2002 version of Tom's work, and if he maintains the same position now as he did then, then a number of questions come to mind. The first was brought up in the article and that is the WC's concealing the death certificate and its placement of the back wound at T-3, which accords with Clint Hill's description of its location and even the autopsy face sheet by Boswell. 2. It is clear from the Bethesda autopsy that attempts to probe the back wound were unsuccessful. The wound did not violate the chest cavity. With the organs removed, the wound was examined from the inside and it was clear the probe did not enter the chest cavity. So where the brusing of the top of Kennedy's lung? 3. Sylvia Meagher's Accessories After the Fact p. 158 records the observations of Dr. Nathan Jacobs that the Parkland doctors described a laceration of the pharynx and trachea that was larger than the small throat wound, consistent with a shot from the front but not from the back. 4. In Tom's scenario, at least in 2002, CE399 is tumbling clockwise as it enters Kennedy's neck around C-7 base first so that a lead piece from the base breaks off and exits the front of Kennedy's throat at a shallower angle relative to the horizontal than the bullet itself. How this is consistent with a clockwise rotation is a mystery to me. From his own drawing of the approximate path of CE399, Tom would say the bullet hit a vertebra and this deflected the lead fragment upward while the bullet continued a clockwise descent, as it were, to the apex of the right lung. If the bullet were rotating counter-clockwise, I might have some confidence in this explanation. 5. another problem with all this is that according to David Mantik any bullet or fragment that is alleged to have entered Kennedy high enough to connect the alleged posterior, and anterior neck wounds would necessarily have hit the spine. True, Tom could argue that's what caused the lead core in the base of CE399 to exit the front of Kennedy's throat and mislead the Parkland doctors into thinking they had an entrance wound on their hands. But did the lead fragment pierce the spine? 6. the Parkland doctors were quite experienced in judging wounds and the penetrating nature of the throat wound was noted. This would not accord with Tom's lead core exiting the front. In addition I already noted Kemp Clark quoted inthe New York times by John Herbers, Nov 26, 1963. Herbers writes: "Dr. Kemp Clark, who pronouned Kennedy dead, said one struck him at about the necktie knot. 'It ranged downward in his chest and did not exit.' the surgeon said." This is the exact opposite of Tom's 2002 drawing which would have the lead fragment exiting the front of Kennedy's throat at a slightly downward trajectory, back to front.

Knowing what we know now about the evolving nature of the official autopsy report from Doug Horne's work, I find it hard to defend the notion that anyone on the night of Nov 22, 1963 observed a rear entry wound in Kennedy's neck at around C7. That's the main difficulty I have with Tom's theory. If Tom has not come to terms with Horne's work on changes in the official autopsy conclusions, then he has work to do, IMO. Best regards, Daniel

Edited by Daniel Gallup
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Daniel, i did reply but ??? I lost it somehow...agreed Doug Horne's work is essential also imo today to be up to date more or less, it has been some years since i went through all this at rich's , till reading doug's so i am also taking it as a refresher course, have patience as i am trying to with myself, here is a bit from posted info saved, might be of interest..for now, thanks much b..

IF.......we and all are expected to believe the large extended wound that we see in the phony autopsy photos,

of the slash to the President's neck is to be believed...well that is what they would like us to...

Then WHY would a tracheostomy be needed to have been performed in the first place..Why ever

would it have been necessary ....Would it not have been necessary by the medical personnel in

attendance, to have had to have worked immediately to have at least tried to staunch that immense flow of blood

into the throat..it also would have blown out the neck as they show, to such a degree, he would not have been breathing by any chance, or imagination, to warrant a trac....but no, all that was reported was a small trickle of blood appearing from a small entrance wound.

And if it was such a huge open slash, would it not have been easily dissected and the wound probed,??

......Instead Dr.Humes stated " Dissecting the neck was totally unnecessary and would have been Criminal.""

Criminal ??.....Therefore a proper autopsy was not completed........and ...."none of the autopsy findings therefore

suggested a penetrating wound to the back...."

Even though Humes consistently claimed that the wound was obscured by the trach.....his pretended ignorance

was contradicted by Ebersole , who more than oce said he was aware of the throat wound that night...

Ebersole as well told Dr.Mantik that he was aware of such ..based on a call by someone to Dallas after 10.30pm, Nov.22/63..

Info of Dr.D.Maniks.

At first at Parkland, the wound was described as just below the Adam's Apple, larynx, just to the right...approx 2 to 3 mm..which would mean above the tie and shirt collar that the President wore.....recall the autopsy photos are fabrications, they have moved their

so called tracheostomy,also...not just the head wounds... to where they decided it should go,in their fabrication......... IMO....

Now in the Pathological Examination Report..from Bethesda Naval Hospital......they seem to have moved such to read...the low, anterior neck at approximately

the third and fourth tracheal ring....also stating the wound is.......a long trachael wound with a 6.5 cm wound, ( that's what it states cm..) widely gaping irregular edges........page 432.."Assassination Science".

By the time of the W/C and the testimony was taken, the wound has grown anywhere from approx 5 ... up to 8 mm.......except for Dr.Jones and Nurse Henchliffe perhaps...

Dr. PERRY: This was situated in the lower anterior one-third of the neck, approximately 5 mm. in diameter. (3H372)

Dr. CARRICO: This was probably a 4-7 mm. wound, almost in the midline, maybe a little to the right of the midline, and below the thyroid cartilage. (6H3)

DR. CARRICO: There was a small wound, 5- to 8-mm. in size, located in the lower third of the neck, below the thyroid cartilage, the Adams apple. (3H361)

Dr. PERRY: I determined only the fact that there was a wound there, roughly 5 mm. in size or so. (6H9)

Dr. JONES: The wound in the throat was probably no larger than a quarter of an inch in diameter. . . . t was a very small, smooth wound. (6H54)

Nurse HENCHLIFFE: It was just a little hole in the middle of his neck. . . . About as big around as the end of my little finger. (6H141

fwiw the testimony of http://www.history-m...HSCA-Lipsey.htm

Edited by Bernice Moore
Link to comment
Share on other sites

fwiw information from.......

OVERLOOKED MEDICAL EVIDENCE-RELATED GEMS

Compiled by Vince Palamara

vmplac@telerama.com

As of June - 2003, write Vince Palamara at vincebethel@yahoo.com

Dr. Charles Crenshaw---

Vindication:

WC references to his presence on 11/22/63: 6 H 40 (Baxter), 6 H 31-32

(McClelland), 6 H 80-81 (Salyer), 6 H 141 (Henchcliffe), 6 H 60

(Curtis)+15 H 761: index;

:-) :-) :-) Completely overlooked WC reference to his presence on

11/24/63: 21 H 265(report by Parkland Administrator Charles

Price)---"Dr. Charles Crenshaw was in the corridor and said they had

been alerted. He said, 'You're not going to put him [Oswald] in the same

room the President was in, are you?' told him I surely was glad he

had thought of it and by all means, not to.";

January 1964 "Texas State Journal of Medicine" article entitled "Three

Patients at Parkland", p. 72---"Dr. Jenkins recalls that the following

physicians were members of the resuscitation team: Drs. Jenkins and

Akin…Drs. Gerry Gustafson, Dale Coln, and Charles Crenshaw, all

residents in surgery, who were prepared to introduce cannulae into the

veins via cutdowns or percutaneous puncture…three members of the staff

were performing venous cutdowns, one in each lower extremity and one in

the left forearm. These were performed by Drs. Coln, Crenshaw, and

Gustafson."

???---

Geraldo's "Now It Can Be Told", 4/2/92 (excerpt inc. on James Fetzer's

video "JFK: The Assassination, The Cover-Up, and Beyond", 1994; see p.

93 of Michael; Benson's "Who's Who on the JFK Assassination")--- G.

Robert Blakey of the HSCA makes the claim that they did talk to Crenshaw

but he "was not the best witness" (?);

----------------

vindication re: Dr. Williams---

some have doubted he was there...

21 H 215 (Nurse Bertha Lozano's report)---"Then the president's body was

escorted out. The crowd vanished, and then I felt so confused that I

just had to leave the desk for a few minutes. I later went to the dining

room with Pat Hutton AND A DR. WILLIAMS and had coffee and afterwards,

went home."

---------------

Maybe Burkley wasn't all bad---

22 H 93-97: 11/27/63 report of his activities surrounding the

assassination of JFK [see also Manchester, p. 670]---(22 H 94 and

97)"[at Parkland]It was evident that death was imminent and that he was

in a hopeless condition."; [at Bethesda]"…his appearance in the casket

gave no evidence of the injury he had received.": perhaps because the

wound was in the BACK of the head?

11/22/63 Press Conference by Asst. WH Press sec. Mac Kilduff (please see

"Best Evidence", pp. 330-331 and photo 28 [Kilduff Press Conference,

11/22/63, Transcript 1327B-LBJ Library; USSS RIF# 154-10002-10194]: "Dr.

Burkley told me, it is a simple matter, Tom, of a bullet right through

the head": he then points to his right temple! Question: "can you say

where the bullet entered his head, Mac?" "It is my understanding that it

entered in the temple, the right temple."; "They [the shots] came from

the right side." [see Thomas Atkins' film clip as shown in "The Men Who

Killed Kennedy", "The Jim Garrison Tapes" video 1992, "JFK: The Case for

Conspiracy" video 1993, "High Treason 2", p. 290, Groden's "TKOAP", p.

59; "POTP", p. 408] This information was repeated by Chet Huntley on NBC

that day: ""President Kennedy, we are now informed, was shot in the

right temple. 'It was a simple matter of a bullet right through the

head,' said Dr. George Burkley, the White House medical officer." [NBC

video, 11/22/63, 1:47 p.m. CST; clip repeated in Prof. James Fetzer's

video "JFK: The Assassination, The Cover-Up, and Beyond"];

"Reasonable Doubt", p. 49 (1982 interview by Henry Hurt+letters of

10/6/82 and 10/14/82)---believed that President Kennedy's assassination

was the result of a conspiracy;

----------

Larry O'Brien: overlooked---

His book entitled "No Final Victories: A Life in Politics from John F.

Kennedy to Watergate" (1974) [see also "Reflections on JFK's

Assassiantion" by John B. Jovich (1988), pages 35 and 37]---At Parkland

Hospial: "It was chaotic, doctors, nurses running in and out. Medical

equipment being wheeled into the room. At one point Jackie and I stepped

into the adjoining room where the President's body lay. All I recall is

***I thought he looked as he always had.***"

MAYBE BECAUSE THE DAMAGE WAS TO THE REAR OF THE HEAD?

------------

Dave Powers...no, not him, too?!---

Interviewed for Ralph Martin's "A Hero For Our Time" (1983): see esp.

pages 519 and 545---Powers appears strongly to be the source for the

following sentence: "The third shot tore off the ***top back half of his

head "and we could see the hair and all the stuff go right up in the

air", an aide said."***;

-----------

Elizabeth Wright, WIFE of O.P. Wright---

21 H 198: page from lengthy/ 10-page (21 H 193-202) 12/11/63 report on

activities 11/22-11/24/63 [see also Manchester, p. 675]---"Mr. Wright

had somewhere down the line asked me if I could ascertain the path of

the bullet---or bullets---determine the path, and find out where the

instrument of injury actually was." (!);

Chief of Security O.P. Wright--

21 H 229-332: report of activities 11/22/63---NOTHING about CE399!

Part 4 of "CBS News Inquiry: The Warren Report" 6/28/67 [see also "Post

Mortem", p. 46]---"...I got hold of a Secret Service man and THEY[sic?]

didn't seem to be interested in coming and looking at the bullet in the

position it was in then. So I went back to the area where Mr. Tomlinson

was and picked up the bullet and put it in my pocket, and I carried it

some 30 or 40 minutes. And I gave it to a Secret Service man that was

guarding the main door into the emergency room...";

for more on this issue, see-

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara.htm

-----------------------

DR. WILLIAM ZEDLITZ'S PRESENCE AT PARKLAND HOSPITAL ON NOVEMBER 22,

1963, AS VERIFIED BY DR. MARTIN G. WHITE (WARREN COMMISSION VOLUME 6,

PAGE 83): Arlen Specter: "And what doctors were present at the time you

left the room?" Dr. White: "Well, it would be impossible for me to tell

you all the people that were there, but I knew Dr. Carrico, Dr. Baxter,

Dr. Perry, and Dr. Zedelitz, Z-e-d-e-l-i-t-z (spelling)---I know they

were there." Arlen Specter: "Doctor who---what is his first name?" Dr.

White: "William Zedelitz." Arlen Specter: "To what extent did he

participate?" Dr. White: "I don't believe that he did any---I don't know

what he did other than the fact that when I was doing the cutdown he

assisted me by just placing some tape over the catheters we used to do

this with." Arlen Specter: "Is he an intern as you are?" Dr. White: "He

is a surgical resident here at this hospital." [This is the reason why

no one has ever contacted him before---he misspelled his last name!]

11/4/98 mletter from Dr. William Zedlitz to Vince Palamara---

"At first glance the president seemed to be in extremely serious

condition as he was not responding to any of the stimuli around him, and

obviously had a massive head injury to the right occipito-parietal area

(right posterior-lateral) of his cranium. This area was a mass of bloody

tissue with multiple skin, hair, and bony fragments matted together with

blood and brain tissue and covered an area approximately ten by twelve

centimeters in diameter. His left eye also seemed to be bulging from his

eyesocket. At this point, Dr. Carrico indicated that he was unable to

effectively ventilate the patient via the endotracheal tube. Dr. Baxter

and Perry immediately began to perform a tracheostomy. Prior to making

the incision, it was noted that a small (5mm to 7mm) hole in the front

of the neck below the thyroid cartilage was present. This was in the

exact location where the tracheostomy was to be performed. Dr. Baxter

and Perry decided to do the procedure by extending the transverse

incision on either side of this hole so that the tracheostomy tube ended

up being inserted in the site of the former hole."

--------------

Robert E. Schorlemer, M.D.---

"I was a senior medical student making rounds in the E.R. (at Parkland

Hospital) with second-year surgery resident, Dr. James Carrico, to

evaluate who was to be admitted from the night-shift holdovers. We were

moving from one stall to another when we heard banging of doors from the

triage station at the front of the ER. Shortly thereafter, we heard

screaming from the front asking for more stretchers, and right after

that Gov. Connally was pushed through the hall door on a gurney. He was

wearing a gray silk suit with alligator shoes and was moaning and

gasping for air.

Red Duke, the chief resident in surgery manning the ER, jumped up

from the nurses' station, and we all moved into ER operating room #1 to

take care of him. I opened his shirt to see a chest wound on his right

side sucking air. Red directed that a Vaseline gauze pad be placed over

the wound to help seal the pneumothorax that was

produced by this until they could get a chest tube placed. I did this.

At that point, Jim

Carrico said, "Let's go to the next room to get ready for the next case

coming in."

As we walked out of the room, President Kennedy was wheeled into the

hallway

separating the two rooms. In my disbelief, I figured that this had to be

his double as no one could believe that the president could be placed in

such jeopardy. As one could see, half of the calivarium of the skull had

been blown away with the underlying brain exposed and the flap produced

lying behind his head. Some agonal movements were being made, and Jim

directed that I get the IV started while he tried to intubate him. His

comment was, "Boy, I'm lucky to have been able to intubate him because

the trachea was severed by one of the bullets."

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/jfk/index.html

[memories: San Antonio/ Houston]

-----------

Dr. Donald Curtis---

9/30/98 letter to Vince Palamara---"1. The wound involving the right

posterior lateral surface of the skull appeared to me to be an exit

wound or a tangential entrance wound. 2. I am unaware as to the details

of the "official story" therefore I am unable to comment on my

interpretation."

-----------

Dr. Donald Seldin---

8/27/98 letter to Vince Palamara---"The bullet struck the President in

the forehead and literally exploded in his skull, so that the entire

frontal, parietal and temporal bones were shattered…I believe that the

official story is accurate in all details." [!]

----------

FOR THE DYING/ "DEAD" AGENT, PERHAPS?---

Nurse Bertha Lozano:

21 H 213-215: report of activities 11/22-11/24/63 [see also Manchester,

p. 672]---"…obtained a carriage from Booth #5, with the help of Dr. Bill

Midgett who helped me roll it out to the entrance."; SEPARATE from JFK

and Connally: "A technician came to the desk and asked me to expect a

private pateint who was bleeding…Blood technicians came to ask me who

"Mr. X" was who did not have an E.R. number. Hematology also came with

the same problem and was told the same thing."

-------------

Milton T. Wright, Jr. :Texas Highway Patrolman(driver of Mayor Cabell's

car):

a) 18 H 802: report dated 11/28/63---"At the hospital we unloaded the

Governor first and then the President. Then we were instructed to keep

the news media away from the car."---nothing specific about the wounds;

B) 8/28/98 letter to Vince Palamara---"…I do recall helping to move the

President from the car to the stretcher. As I recall about a 1/4

[quarter] of his head was missing, mostly to the left of the back of the

head. I believe he died instantly from the wound I saw.";

c) 9/3/98 e-mail to Vince Palamara---" the wound was left ear to back of

head, generally."

-----------

Dr. Robert Shaw: did he work for LIFE???---

11/29/63 "Houston Post"---"The assassin was behind him[JFK], yet the

bullet entered at the front of his neck. Mr. Kennedy must have turned to

his left to talk to Mrs. Kennedy or to wave to someone."...

12/6/63 "Life Magazine" article by Paul Mandel:

"the 8 mm. film shows the President turning his body far around to the

right as he waves to someone in the crowd. His throat is

exposed---towards the sniper's nest---just before he clutches it."

(reproduced in "Reasonable Doubt" by Henry Hurt)]

----------

Evelyn Lincoln & Bill Greer: Parkland autopsy???---

Lincoln:

4/21/91 interview with Harry Livingstone for "High Treason 2", pp.

435-437---"…I remember coming into Parkland Hospital, and Dr. Burkley

telling me that he [JFK] had gone, and Jackie was sitting outside of the

place where he was being kept---they were doing the autopsy or whatever

they were doing, and I went up to her and tried to console her."; "I

never looked at any of that [the autopsy materials]. Nothing. I kept it,

and then Bobby [Kennedy] moved it into another room. It was all sealed

up. I never saw any of it…I had no access to it."; "It was a conspiracy.

There was no doubt about that...J. Edgar Hoover was involved in it.";

"Bloody Treason" by Noel Twyman, p. 831 and

"Assassination Science" by James Fetzer,p. 372: 10/7/94 letter to

Richard Duncan---"As for the assassination is concerned [sic] it is my

belief that there was a conspiracy because there were those that

disliked him and felt the only way to get rid of him was to assassinate

him. These five conspirators , in my opinion, were Lyndon B. Johnson, J.

Edgar Hoover, the Mafia, the CIA, and the Cubans in Florida. The House

Intelligence Committee investigation, also, came to the conclusion that

there was a conspiracy."[Lincoln conveyed the same thoughts to Anthony

Summers: see "The Fourth Decade" journal, May 1998 issue, p. 14];

Greer:

"The Asheville (NC) Citizen-Times", 11/6/83 interview of Greer (see

"High Treason 2", p. 572 [Palamara provided this to the author] and "The

Third Alternative-Survivor's Guilt; The Secret Service and the JFK

Murder" by Vince Palamara, p. 22)- "I stayed with (JFK) through the

examination and then through the autopsy, and was with him when they put

his body in the coffin and took him to Air Force One."

---------

Secret Service agent Andy Berger: FBI & CIA at Parkland---

18 H 795: Secret Service agent Andy Berger (who would go on to drive the

hearse containing JFK's body out of Parkland) reported of meeting the

following persons at Parkland Hospital shortly after the assassination:

a. FBI agent Vincent Drain (sent via Hoover!), the same agent who would

go on to accompany Agent Lawson during the transfer of critical

assassination evidence later on that weekend;

b. "a doctor friend of (Drain)" ;

c. an "unidentified CIA agent" who had credentials (like the FBI man

sent by Hoover, how could the CIA agent get to the Dallas hospital so

soon after the murder?);

[see Bill Sloan's "Breaking the Silence", pp. 181-185###; "The Man

Who Knew Too Much", numerous--see esp. pages 570-571 [see also "Who's

Who in the JFK Assassination" by Michael Benson (1993), pp. 40-41])]

### March 1993 interview of Parkland Hospital Chief telephone operator

Phyllis Bartlett ("JFK: Breaking The Silence", p. 185)---"…Ms.

Bartlett…recalled conversing at the time of the assassination with a man

fitting Hugh Howell's description. "My little office was overflowing

with as many as fifty people at once back then," she said, "but I do

remember talking to a short man with a crewcut who identified himself in

that capacity [CIA], and I do believe he said his name was Howell.";

d. an "unidentified FBI agent" [J. Doyle Williams]who did not have

credentials.;

----------

Another "J.D."...and this one ain't Tippit...

Nurse "J.D.", from San Angelo, Texas:

Page 69 of Abigail ("Dear Abby") Van Buren's 1993 book entitled "Where

were you when President Kennedy was Shot?" [all writers were shielded

with anonymity via initials]---"When Kennedy was shot, I was at

Parkland---a student nurse. I heard all the department chiefs being

paged. I saw all the press buses arriving; watched the E.R. grow

crowded; saw Jackie in her bloodstained pink suit. Thirty years later, I

find it hard to believe I was there.";

-----------------------

Brad Parker has learned that the article, "Three Patients at Parkland",

while based on the

original reports made by the Parkland doctors, incorporated subtle

changes which he was

told were made by none other than Dr. Marion Jenkins! EXAMPLE---

WR 526-527 / 17 H 11-12 / CE 392: Dr. Robert McClelland's report written

11/22/63---"…a

massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the

trachea…The cause of

death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of

the left temple.";

d) January 1964 Texas State Journal of Medicine article "Three Patients

at Parkland", p.

63---repeats the gist of his 11/22/63 report, but with one change"…a

massive gunshot

wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea…The cause of

death was due to

massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the ***right side

of the head.***"

Re: Parkland Hospital circa 1963-1964: "It is adjacent to and is the

major teaching hospital

for the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School. It is staffed

by the faculty of the

medical school and has 150 interns and residents in all medical

specialties." ("Texas State

Journal of Medicine", January 1964, Vol. 60, p. 61)

[i have over 175---see below]

January 1964 Texas State Journal of Medicine article "Three Patients at

Parkland", p.

73---"The [Oswald] operating team consisted of Drs. Shires, McClelland,

Perry, and Jones.

The anesthesia team consisted of Drs. Akin, Jenkins, and Dr. Harlan

Pollock, resident on

anesthesiology."

9/8/98 letter from Dr. Donald Jackson [21 H 171, 205, 215] to Vince

Palamara---"I continue

to be dissatisfied with the explanation of the Warren Commission. The

reason for my

skepticism is linked to discrepancies in descriptions of the Kennedy

wounds between the

Parkland Emergency Room and the autopsy findings. Drs. McClelland,

Perry, and Jenkins

gave accurate descriptions of the wounds as they saw them in the

Emergency Room.";

9/8/98 letter from Dr. William Risk ["JFK: Conspiracy of Silence", p.

183; 3 H 384; January

1964 Texas State Journal of Medicine article "Three Patients at

Parkland", pages 72 and 73

re: involvement in treatment of LHO; "The Search For Lee Harvey Oswald"

by Robert Groden

(1995), p. 202]to Vince Palamara---"...as a physician, I have the

feeling there was more

than one "shooter" and more than one bullet involved because of the

nature of the wounds.

I would suggest that, if you have not already done so, you get a copy of

an article from the

Journal of the Texas Medical Association, January 1964, entitled "Three

Patients at

Parkland." This article is a MEDICAL version of those days. The wounds

described there, to

me, suggest entrance and exit wounds which differ from the "one bullet

theory."

9/98 letter from Dr. Adolph Giesecke to Vince Palamara---"I did not

examine the President's

head and should never have said anything about the wounds. (I testified

to the Warren

Commission that the wound was on the left side. That was obviously

wrong)…I hope you

become convinced that there was only one gunman, Oswald, and all entry

wounds were from

the rear." [!] Ironically, Giesecke included with his letter a photocopy

of the "Three Patients

At Parkland" article that includes medical information that greatly

contradicts this view.

Vince

More irony:

8/26/98 letter from Dr. Malcolm Perry to Vince Palamara---"I did not

inspect the head

wound---I was much too busy. The only person who carefully evaluated the

head wound was

Dr. Kemp Clark, Chief of Neurosurgery (no one could be better

qualified). His testimony (and

mine) is in the Warren Report. His findings are consistent with those

described by Dr.

Hume et al during the autopsy."

PERRY, BEFORE POSNER GOT TO HIM:

a) WR 521-522/ 17 H 6-7/ CE392: report written 11/22/63---"A large wound

of the right

posterior cranium…";

B) Parkland press conference, 11/22/63 [see "Assassination Science", pp.

419-427; silent

film clip used in "Reasonable Doubt" (1988), "20/20" (4/92),

etc.]---"There was an entrance

wound in the neck…It appeared to be coming at him…The wound appeared to

be an entrance

wound in the front of the throat; yes, that is correct. The exit wound,

I don't know. It could

have been the head or there could have been a second wound of the head."

(apparently,

based off this conference, the Associated Press dispatch on 11/22/63

stated that Dr. Perry

"said the entrance wound was in the front of the head," while all the AP

wires for this day

stated that JFK had a large hole in the "back" of his head.);

c) UPI report published in the "New York World Telegram & Sun", 11/22/63

(see also the

11/23/63 "San Francisco Chronicle" [Groden's "TKOAP", p. 76])---"There

was an entrance

wound below his Adam's apple. There was another wound in the back of his

head.";

d) Filmed interview by Bob Welch, WBAP-TV/ NBC (Texas News), 11/23/63

[available on the

video "Kennedy In Texas" (1984) and, in edited form, on "The Two

Kennedys" (1976)]---"He

had a severe, lethal wound"; "There was a neck wound anteriorly and a

large wound of his

head in the right posterior area."; "passage of the bullet through the

neck"; "chest tubes

were put in place"; mentions the presence of Drs. Seldin and Bashour

[this was the second

conference that weekend---21 H 265: "this was a final conference to give

reporters who had

missed earlier conferences a chance to hear from (the) medical team and

to answer their

questions."];

AND

DR. KEMP CLARK:

a) WR 516-518/ 17 H 1-3 / CE 392 [undated summary; see also 21 H 150-152

:Clark's

11/23/63 report to Admiral Burkley with the verbatim summary . In

addition, see

"Assassination Science", pp. 416-418: this is an FBI report dated

11/25/63 which includes

the verbatim summary to Burkley from 11/23/63]---"..in the occipital

region of the skull…";

"There was a large wound in the right occipitoparietal region…"; "Both

cerebral and

cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound.";

B) WR 524-525/ 17 H 9-10 /CE 392: handwritten report 11/22/63---"The

President was

bleeding profusely from the back of the head . There was a large (3 x 3

cm) remnant of

cerebral tissue present…there was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue

present also";

"There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into

the parietal

region…";

c) Parkland Press conference, 11/22/63, 3:16 PM CST ["Assassination

Science", pp. 427]---"

A missile had gone in or out of the back of his head…the back of his

head…I was busy with

his head wound…The head wound could have been either the exit wound from

the neck or it

could have been a tangential wound, as it was simply a large, gaping

loss of tissue.";

-----------------

10/13/98 letter from Dr. Ronald Jones to Vince Palamara----"I recently

testified on August

27, 1998 before the Assassination Review Panel regarding several issues

including these

that you ask. I was located on the left side of President Kennedy, the

region of his left

chest, where I inserted the left chest tube and did a cut down on the

left arm to place an IV

line. As a result I did not have clear view of the back side of the head

wound. President

Kennedy had very thick dark hair that covered the injured area. In my

opinion it was in the

occipital area in the back of the head. Because the scalp partially

covered the wound I

cannot give an exact size of the defect in the skull. There was no

obvious injury to the face.

The wound in the neck was very small, perhaps no larger than 1/4 of an

inch and the wound

in the back of the head was much larger. It was for this reason that I

initially thought that

the injury to the neck was an entrance wound. During the time the

President was at

Parkland Hospital the physicians did not roll him over after he was

pronounced dead and

thus did not appreciate the wound in the back which was discovered at

autopsy."

----------

>From Life, Nov 1983 v6 p48(24) 4 days that stopped America; the Kennedy

assassination, 20 years later. Doris G. Kinney; Marcia Smith; Penny

Ward Moser.----

At 1:15 Doris Nelson was eating lunch with other nurses in

the Parkland Hospital cafeteria. "We were talking

about what would happen if the President was in a car

wreck

or something," she remembers. "I said they'd

never bring him here, they'd take him to a hospital in

town." When Nelson returned to the emergency room, the

phone was ringing. "It was the switchboard operator. she

said, 'Doris, the President's been shot, and he'll be

here in five minutes.' I said, 'Yes, Phyllis [bartlett],

so what else

is new?'" At first, nobody believed Nelson either. "By the

time I got two doctors and the head nurse convinced, they

were rolling him down the hall." Nelson was

emergency room supervisor. "As I looked around, I didn't

see anyone from the higher echelon in the hospital,

so I thought, 'Doris, you've got it.'" Connally came

first.

"He had been pretty badly wounded, and his skin was

real pale. So I just ripped off his shirt to see where the

injuries were. I put him in Trauma Two. Right behind

him came the President. Jackie was walking beside him. A

rose was lying across the stretcher. I put him in

Trauma One." While physicians hovered over the President,

Nelson stood at the door, screening the flow of

nurses, doctors and Secret Service agents. "At one point,

Jackie decided to go into the room when they were

doing a tracheotomy on him. I though it was not in her

best

interest or in the best interest of the patient or the

physicians. I suggested she wait outside. But the agent in

charge said that if she wished to go in, that was her

prerogative." Nelson was impressed by the First Lady.

"Amazed at how poised she was. I asked her if she

would like to remove her gloves and wash her hands, and

she

said, 'No, thank you, I'm fine.' She seemed

almost in a trance.c Nelson herself was on automatic

pilot.

"About an hour after it was over, someone brought

me a cup of coffee. My hands started shaking so, I

couldn't

hold it. That's when it hit me." (Doris Nelson dies

last month of liver cander at 52, shortly after she gave

this interview.)

In the same article, Nurse Nelson showed a LIFE photographer the

location of the head wound:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/nelson.jpg

For more---

Medical evidence compilation (everything but the kitchen sink):

http://www.mindcushion.com/jfk/MedEvEarly1.html

For everything(!)--

MY NEW BOOK, "JFK: THE MEDICAL EVIDENCE REFERENCE" (339 PAGES), praised

by Dr. Gary Aguilar, Robert Groden, John McAdams, Brad Parker, and many

others, is available for $30

exclusively via "The Last Hurrah Bookshop":

http://members.aol.com/jfkhurrah/

Andrew Winiarczyk

Proprietor

849 W. Third St. #1

Williamsport, Pennsylvania 17701

717/321-1150 (Phone and Fax)

Vince Palamara

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:blink: deleted double...oops

Daniel here is information from a thread on the forum, you may be interested in...b

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11340&st=165

Bernice, as long as we are bringing up interesting tidbits, there is this exchange between Tom Robinson and Andrew Purdy for the HSCA:

Purdy:... you just said you saw the tracheotomy

Robinson: Well, it was a tracheotomy, it was sort of nasty-looking.

As I have indicated to Mr. Purvis, the look of the trach incision at Bethesda is a true smoking gun in the case. None of the early descriptions of the trach incision Perry made called in "nasty."

Then later, once the work of embalming was finished:

Purdy: Were there any other wounds on the head other than the little one in the right temple and the big one in the back?

Robinson: That's all.

Comment: What incompetence of Robinson! Didn't he know there was also a sizeable piece of the parietal missing, found by Harper and identified as... oops, occipital, by Dr. Cairns?

Now so there is no mistake about matters, Purdy again:

Purdy: Do you think it was possible in your professional experience that there were no other significant wounds of the head?

Robinson: Oh yes, we would have found that.

Then there are these tidbits from an article by Michael Griffith on the ARRB contributions.

1. Stringer reported to the HSCA that the throat wound was probed, and from the front, the probe went downward, according to Robert Knudsen, just as Kemp Clark indicated to the New York Times, that the bullet hit Kennedy from the front, ranged downward, and did not exit.

2. Saundra Kay Spencer told the ARRB she did not process any of the extant photos even though she did process the autopsy photos SS agent James Fox brought from the autopsy.

3. I will avoid Joe O'Donnell's claims as some view him as an unreliable witness. But they should be read and his testimony compared to that of Robert Knudsen, with whom he worked.

As Mr. Purvis has placed great value on knowing the facts of the case, I think the strange goings on that night at Bethesda should be considered whenever and wherever the "facts" of the case are trying to be ascertained. It's enough to drive one to drink. Best, Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:blink: deleted double...oops

Daniel here is information from a thread on the forum, you may be interested in...b

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11340&st=165

Bernice, as long as we are bringing up interesting tidbits, there is this exchange between Tom Robinson and Andrew Purdy for the HSCA:

Purdy:... you just said you saw the tracheotomy

Robinson: Well, it was a tracheotomy, it was sort of nasty-looking.

As I have indicated to Mr. Purvis, the look of the trach incision at Bethesda is a true smoking gun in the case. None of the early descriptions of the trach incision Perry made called in "nasty."

Then later, once the work of embalming was finished:

Purdy: Were there any other wounds on the head other than the little one in the right temple and the big one in the back?

Robinson: That's all.

Comment: What incompetence of Robinson! Didn't he know there was also a sizeable piece of the parietal missing, found by Harper and identified as... oops, occipital, by Dr. Cairns?

Now so there is no mistake about matters, Purdy again:

Purdy: Do you think it was possible in your professional experience that there were no other significant wounds of the head?

Robinson: Oh yes, we would have found that.

Then there are these tidbits from an article by Michael Griffith on the ARRB contributions.

1. Stringer reported to the HSCA that the throat wound was probed, and from the front, the probe went downward, according to Robert Knudsen, just as Kemp Clark indicated to the New York Times, that the bullet hit Kennedy from the front, ranged downward, and did not exit.

2. Saundra Kay Spencer told the ARRB she did not process any of the extant photos even though she did process the autopsy photos SS agent James Fox brought from the autopsy.

3. I will avoid Joe O'Donnell's claims as some view him as an unreliable witness. But they should be read and his testimony compared to that of Robert Knudsen, with whom he worked.

As Mr. Purvis has placed great value on knowing the facts of the case, I think the strange goings on that night at Bethesda should be considered whenever and wherever the "facts" of the case are trying to be ascertained. It's enough to drive one to drink. Best, Daniel

In event that one truly wishes to know the facts as to why the "trach" incision was so large, might I recommend that they take a visit to The Sixth Floor Museum, if/and when, they get around to posting the reason. (there is a two-page writeup which deals only with "THE ANTERIOR THROAT WOUND".

Meanwhile, they can, if they so desire, continue to stumble around in "rabbit holes" looking for mythological creatures (IE: multiple assassins; body snatchers; wound alteration specialists)

And for the record, be assured that I have little other than disdain for anyone who would readily accept such speculative theories without any obvious attempt to realize and recognize exactly how foolish they are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:blink: deleted double...oops

Daniel here is information from a thread on the forum, you may be interested in...b

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11340&st=165

Bernice, as long as we are bringing up interesting tidbits, there is this exchange between Tom Robinson and Andrew Purdy for the HSCA:

Purdy:... you just said you saw the tracheotomy

Robinson: Well, it was a tracheotomy, it was sort of nasty-looking.

As I have indicated to Mr. Purvis, the look of the trach incision at Bethesda is a true smoking gun in the case. None of the early descriptions of the trach incision Perry made called in "nasty."

Then later, once the work of embalming was finished:

Purdy: Were there any other wounds on the head other than the little one in the right temple and the big one in the back?

Robinson: That's all.

Comment: What incompetence of Robinson! Didn't he know there was also a sizeable piece of the parietal missing, found by Harper and identified as... oops, occipital, by Dr. Cairns?

Now so there is no mistake about matters, Purdy again:

Purdy: Do you think it was possible in your professional experience that there were no other significant wounds of the head?

Robinson: Oh yes, we would have found that.

Then there are these tidbits from an article by Michael Griffith on the ARRB contributions.

1. Stringer reported to the HSCA that the throat wound was probed, and from the front, the probe went downward, according to Robert Knudsen, just as Kemp Clark indicated to the New York Times, that the bullet hit Kennedy from the front, ranged downward, and did not exit.

2. Saundra Kay Spencer told the ARRB she did not process any of the extant photos even though she did process the autopsy photos SS agent James Fox brought from the autopsy.

3. I will avoid Joe O'Donnell's claims as some view him as an unreliable witness. But they should be read and his testimony compared to that of Robert Knudsen, with whom he worked.

As Mr. Purvis has placed great value on knowing the facts of the case, I think the strange goings on that night at Bethesda should be considered whenever and wherever the "facts" of the case are trying to be ascertained. It's enough to drive one to drink. Best, Daniel

In event that one truly wishes to know the facts as to why the "trach" incision was so large, might I recommend that they take a visit to The Sixth Floor Museum, if/and when, they get around to posting the reason. (there is a two-page writeup which deals only with "THE ANTERIOR THROAT WOUND".

Meanwhile, they can, if they so desire, continue to stumble around in "rabbit holes" looking for mythological creatures (IE: multiple assassins; body snatchers; wound alteration specialists)

And for the record, be assured that I have little other than disdain for anyone who would readily accept such speculative theories without any obvious attempt to realize and recognize exactly how foolish they are.

Tom, once again an answer without facts, just opinion,and more disdain for contrary views. Why should I go to the Sixth-floor Museum? Gary Mack and I have the same evidence in front of us. If his conclusion is different from mine, fine, let's lay out the reasons for our positions and have done with acrimony. In my judgment, the best efforts to evade wound tampering have come from Milicent Craynor, and having read her work, I am satisfied that the alteration of wounds best fits what we know as fact. Best,Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:blink: deleted double...oops

Daniel here is information from a thread on the forum, you may be interested in...b

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11340&st=165

Bernice, as long as we are bringing up interesting tidbits, there is this exchange between Tom Robinson and Andrew Purdy for the HSCA:

Purdy:... you just said you saw the tracheotomy

Robinson: Well, it was a tracheotomy, it was sort of nasty-looking.

As I have indicated to Mr. Purvis, the look of the trach incision at Bethesda is a true smoking gun in the case. None of the early descriptions of the trach incision Perry made called in "nasty."

Then later, once the work of embalming was finished:

Purdy: Were there any other wounds on the head other than the little one in the right temple and the big one in the back?

Robinson: That's all.

Comment: What incompetence of Robinson! Didn't he know there was also a sizeable piece of the parietal missing, found by Harper and identified as... oops, occipital, by Dr. Cairns?

Now so there is no mistake about matters, Purdy again:

Purdy: Do you think it was possible in your professional experience that there were no other significant wounds of the head?

Robinson: Oh yes, we would have found that.

Then there are these tidbits from an article by Michael Griffith on the ARRB contributions.

1. Stringer reported to the HSCA that the throat wound was probed, and from the front, the probe went downward, according to Robert Knudsen, just as Kemp Clark indicated to the New York Times, that the bullet hit Kennedy from the front, ranged downward, and did not exit.

2. Saundra Kay Spencer told the ARRB she did not process any of the extant photos even though she did process the autopsy photos SS agent James Fox brought from the autopsy.

3. I will avoid Joe O'Donnell's claims as some view him as an unreliable witness. But they should be read and his testimony compared to that of Robert Knudsen, with whom he worked.

As Mr. Purvis has placed great value on knowing the facts of the case, I think the strange goings on that night at Bethesda should be considered whenever and wherever the "facts" of the case are trying to be ascertained. It's enough to drive one to drink. Best, Daniel

In event that one truly wishes to know the facts as to why the "trach" incision was so large, might I recommend that they take a visit to The Sixth Floor Museum, if/and when, they get around to posting the reason. (there is a two-page writeup which deals only with "THE ANTERIOR THROAT WOUND".

Meanwhile, they can, if they so desire, continue to stumble around in "rabbit holes" looking for mythological creatures (IE: multiple assassins; body snatchers; wound alteration specialists)

And for the record, be assured that I have little other than disdain for anyone who would readily accept such speculative theories without any obvious attempt to realize and recognize exactly how foolish they are.

Tom, once again an answer without facts, just opinion,and more disdain for contrary views. Why should I go to the Sixth-floor Museum? Gary Mack and I have the same evidence in front of us. If his conclusion is different from mine, fine, let's lay out the reasons for our positions and have done with acrimony. In my judgment, the best efforts to evade wound tampering have come from Milicent Craynor, and having read her work, I am satisfied that the alteration of wounds best fits what we know as fact. Best,Daniel

"Gary Mack and I have the same evidence in front of us."

Nope!------Wrong again!

Since you are not on the "distribution list", and there is no record that you subscribe to The George County Times,then I would again have to disagree with you.

Mr. Mack is in possession of a two (full) page newspaper writeup in regards to the anterior throat wound, which I might add fully explains the answers related to the questions of the tracheotomy as well as most other questions related to this enigma.

Answers of which I might add, do not require one to invent mythological "body snatchers & wound alteration specialists" in order to explain something which one has failed to adequately research.

Tom Purvis

"Failure to understand the evidence has no bearing on the validity of that evidence."

As a general rule it merely means that one does not understand the evidence."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:blink: deleted double...oops

Daniel here is information from a thread on the forum, you may be interested in...b

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11340&st=165

Bernice, as long as we are bringing up interesting tidbits, there is this exchange between Tom Robinson and Andrew Purdy for the HSCA:

Purdy:... you just said you saw the tracheotomy

Robinson: Well, it was a tracheotomy, it was sort of nasty-looking.

As I have indicated to Mr. Purvis, the look of the trach incision at Bethesda is a true smoking gun in the case. None of the early descriptions of the trach incision Perry made called in "nasty."

Then later, once the work of embalming was finished:

Purdy: Were there any other wounds on the head other than the little one in the right temple and the big one in the back?

Robinson: That's all.

Comment: What incompetence of Robinson! Didn't he know there was also a sizeable piece of the parietal missing, found by Harper and identified as... oops, occipital, by Dr. Cairns?

Now so there is no mistake about matters, Purdy again:

Purdy: Do you think it was possible in your professional experience that there were no other significant wounds of the head?

Robinson: Oh yes, we would have found that.

Then there are these tidbits from an article by Michael Griffith on the ARRB contributions.

1. Stringer reported to the HSCA that the throat wound was probed, and from the front, the probe went downward, according to Robert Knudsen, just as Kemp Clark indicated to the New York Times, that the bullet hit Kennedy from the front, ranged downward, and did not exit.

2. Saundra Kay Spencer told the ARRB she did not process any of the extant photos even though she did process the autopsy photos SS agent James Fox brought from the autopsy.

3. I will avoid Joe O'Donnell's claims as some view him as an unreliable witness. But they should be read and his testimony compared to that of Robert Knudsen, with whom he worked.

As Mr. Purvis has placed great value on knowing the facts of the case, I think the strange goings on that night at Bethesda should be considered whenever and wherever the "facts" of the case are trying to be ascertained. It's enough to drive one to drink. Best, Daniel

In event that one truly wishes to know the facts as to why the "trach" incision was so large, might I recommend that they take a visit to The Sixth Floor Museum, if/and when, they get around to posting the reason. (there is a two-page writeup which deals only with "THE ANTERIOR THROAT WOUND".

Meanwhile, they can, if they so desire, continue to stumble around in "rabbit holes" looking for mythological creatures (IE: multiple assassins; body snatchers; wound alteration specialists)

And for the record, be assured that I have little other than disdain for anyone who would readily accept such speculative theories without any obvious attempt to realize and recognize exactly how foolish they are.

Tom, once again an answer without facts, just opinion,and more disdain for contrary views. Why should I go to the Sixth-floor Museum? Gary Mack and I have the same evidence in front of us. If his conclusion is different from mine, fine, let's lay out the reasons for our positions and have done with acrimony. In my judgment, the best efforts to evade wound tampering have come from Milicent Craynor, and having read her work, I am satisfied that the alteration of wounds best fits what we know as fact. Best,Daniel

"Gary Mack and I have the same evidence in front of us."

Nope!------Wrong again!

Since you are not on the "distribution list", and there is no record that you subscribe to The George County Times,then I would again have to disagree with you.

Mr. Mack is in possession of a two (full) page newspaper writeup in regards to the anterior throat wound, which I might add fully explains the answers related to the questions of the tracheotomy as well as most other questions related to this enigma.

Answers of which I might add, do not require one to invent mythological "body snatchers & wound alteration specialists" in order to explain something which one has failed to adequately research.

Tom Purvis

"Failure to understand the evidence has no bearing on the validity of that evidence."

As a general rule it merely means that one does not understand the evidence."

If what you say is true, Gary Mack, it would seem would have produced his argument long ago, or at least posted in on McAdams. I'll check that possibility out. By the way, "newspaper writeup?" I would expect a scholarly journal article. But for your sake and in gratitude for all you hard work on the case, I give you and Gary Mack the benefit of the doubt. OK Gary, the ball is in your court. Prove to me the autopsy pictures accurately depict the trach incision Perry made and who told Lifton early on that its width was 2-3 cm, and I will admit you win. Fair enough? Best wishes, Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If what you say is true, Gary Mack, it would seem would have produced his argument long ago, or at least posted in on McAdams. I'll check that possibility out. By the way, "newspaper writeup?" I would expect a scholarly journal article. But for your sake and in gratitude for all you hard work on the case, I give you and Gary Mack the benefit of the doubt. OK Gary, the ball is in your court. Prove to me the autopsy pictures accurately depict the trach incision Perry made and who told Lifton early on that its width was 2-3 cm, and I will admit you win. Fair enough? Best wishes, Daniel

Tom, Gary emailed me and said what he has is only what you've given him, presumably about the anterior throat wound. Not sure what is going on. Can you enlighten? Best, Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dp not know exactly what is going on with the (attempted) posting of responses.

However, the latest response is as follows:

If what you say is true, Gary Mack, it would seem would have produced his argument long ago,

Since he only received the information a short while back, this too would be unlikely.

And, since (hopefully) the Sixth Floor Museum is ultimately going to present ALL of the factual evidence in a single presentation, exactly why would one want to merely let one cat out of the bag when one just may have a bag that is full of cats?

By the way, "newspaper writeup?" I would expect a scholarly journal

When taken into consideration that you quite apparantly believe the "fictional" tale of body snatchers and wound alteration specialists, then one could be lead to believe that you would believe anything that is "conspiracy" oriented.

Perhaps even if written on a well-used after dinner napkin!

And,by the way, were I so naive of the actually facts that I "world-wide" inserted my foot into my mouth by posting that I actually believed ANY of the "body snatch/wound alteration" theory, then rest assured that I too would go to my grave claiming the factuality of this (completely assinine) theory.

Prove to me the autopsy pictures accurately depict the trach incision Perry made and who told Lifton early on that its width was 2-3 cm

Since the autopsy photograph does not in fact demonstrate the "trach incision Perry made", then it would be most difficult to prove something which is factually "not factual".

Tom

P.S. In order to get the correct answer, it always helps if one actually ask's the correct question!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dp not know exactly what is going on with the (attempted) posting of responses.

However, the latest response is as follows:

If what you say is true, Gary Mack, it would seem would have produced his argument long ago,

Since he only received the information a short while back, this too would be unlikely.

And, since (hopefully) the Sixth Floor Museum is ultimately going to present ALL of the factual evidence in a single presentation, exactly why would one want to merely let one cat out of the bag when one just may have a bag that is full of cats?

By the way, "newspaper writeup?" I would expect a scholarly journal

When taken into consideration that you quite apparantly believe the "fictional" tale of body snatchers and wound alteration specialists, then one could be lead to believe that you would believe anything that is "conspiracy" oriented.

Perhaps even if written on a well-used after dinner napkin!

And,by the way, were I so naive of the actually facts that I "world-wide" inserted my foot into my mouth by posting that I actually believed ANY of the "body snatch/wound alteration" theory, then rest assured that I too would go to my grave claiming the factuality of this (completely assinine) theory.

Prove to me the autopsy pictures accurately depict the trach incision Perry made and who told Lifton early on that its width was 2-3 cm

Since the autopsy photograph does not in fact demonstrate the "trach incision Perry made", then it would be most difficult to prove something which is factually "not factual".

Tom

P.S. In order to get the correct answer, it always helps if one actually ask's the correct question!

Tom, I am quite weary of all this, but am glad at least you agree with me that the autopsy photo on the neck does not represent Perry's incision. I consider that a major concession, and thank you for it.Best, Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dp not know exactly what is going on with the (attempted) posting of responses.

However, the latest response is as follows:

If what you say is true, Gary Mack, it would seem would have produced his argument long ago,

Since he only received the information a short while back, this too would be unlikely.

And, since (hopefully) the Sixth Floor Museum is ultimately going to present ALL of the factual evidence in a single presentation, exactly why would one want to merely let one cat out of the bag when one just may have a bag that is full of cats?

By the way, "newspaper writeup?" I would expect a scholarly journal

When taken into consideration that you quite apparantly believe the "fictional" tale of body snatchers and wound alteration specialists, then one could be lead to believe that you would believe anything that is "conspiracy" oriented.

Perhaps even if written on a well-used after dinner napkin!

And,by the way, were I so naive of the actually facts that I "world-wide" inserted my foot into my mouth by posting that I actually believed ANY of the "body snatch/wound alteration" theory, then rest assured that I too would go to my grave claiming the factuality of this (completely assinine) theory.

Prove to me the autopsy pictures accurately depict the trach incision Perry made and who told Lifton early on that its width was 2-3 cm

Since the autopsy photograph does not in fact demonstrate the "trach incision Perry made", then it would be most difficult to prove something which is factually "not factual".

Tom

P.S. In order to get the correct answer, it always helps if one actually ask's the correct question!

Tom, I am quite weary of all this, but am glad at least you agree with me that the autopsy photo on the neck does not represent Perry's incision. I consider that a major concession, and thank you for it.Best, Daniel

but am glad at least you agree with me that the autopsy photo on the neck does not represent Perry's incision. I consider that a major concession, and thank you for it.Best

You will most likely want to publish a "retraction" on that thank you.

I do believe the statement was that the autopsy photograph did not demonstrate the tracheotomy incision that Dr. Perry made.

Which stands as correct.

The initial tracheotomy incision (attempt) was a relatively small cut.

Other than that, one can be assured that Dr. Perry was ultimately responsible for and created the anterior throat incision as seen in the "stare of death" autopsy photograph.

No "boogymen; body snatchers; and/or wound alteration specialists.

Along with, I might add, no falsified/altered, etc; autopsy photographs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dp not know exactly what is going on with the (attempted) posting of responses.

However, the latest response is as follows:

If what you say is true, Gary Mack, it would seem would have produced his argument long ago,

Since he only received the information a short while back, this too would be unlikely.

And, since (hopefully) the Sixth Floor Museum is ultimately going to present ALL of the factual evidence in a single presentation, exactly why would one want to merely let one cat out of the bag when one just may have a bag that is full of cats?

By the way, "newspaper writeup?" I would expect a scholarly journal

When taken into consideration that you quite apparantly believe the "fictional" tale of body snatchers and wound alteration specialists, then one could be lead to believe that you would believe anything that is "conspiracy" oriented.

Perhaps even if written on a well-used after dinner napkin!

And,by the way, were I so naive of the actually facts that I "world-wide" inserted my foot into my mouth by posting that I actually believed ANY of the "body snatch/wound alteration" theory, then rest assured that I too would go to my grave claiming the factuality of this (completely assinine) theory.

Prove to me the autopsy pictures accurately depict the trach incision Perry made and who told Lifton early on that its width was 2-3 cm

Since the autopsy photograph does not in fact demonstrate the "trach incision Perry made", then it would be most difficult to prove something which is factually "not factual".

Tom

P.S. In order to get the correct answer, it always helps if one actually ask's the correct question!

Tom, I am quite weary of all this, but am glad at least you agree with me that the autopsy photo on the neck does not represent Perry's incision. I consider that a major concession, and thank you for it.Best, Daniel

but am glad at least you agree with me that the autopsy photo on the neck does not represent Perry's incision. I consider that a major concession, and thank you for it.Best

You will most likely want to publish a "retraction" on that thank you.

I do believe the statement was that the autopsy photograph did not demonstrate the tracheotomy incision that Dr. Perry made.

Which stands as correct.

The initial tracheotomy incision (attempt) was a relatively small cut.

Other than that, one can be assured that Dr. Perry was ultimately responsible for and created the anterior throat incision as seen in the "stare of death" autopsy photograph.

No "boogymen; body snatchers; and/or wound alteration specialists.

Along with, I might add, no falsified/altered, etc; autopsy photographs.

Tom, in the previous post, I said I was weary of all this. Well I was very tired last night; I have been working on math problems today strangely as a result feel quite energetic at the moment. So I amend my statement: "..this appears to be a major concession..." You are a hard one to pin down, and enjoy playing a kind of cat and mouse game. Fine with me. Logically, if the autopsy photos have not been altered, then either the body was, or Perry made the large incision we see in the stare of death photo. There are no other alternatives. So it is not difficult to see why you think it was the work of Perry. I think later in his life Perry said it was the work of Perry. There you have it, QED as we say in mathematics. Where's the beef? etc. But as you well know, this is not a retraction, but a veiled challenge to prove your point. May I say, that your claim that the initial incision was a relatively small cut, is to me a major concession, and I thank you for it. Best, Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...