Greg Parker Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Greg Parker, You really are a hoot. For you, apparently, this is the Alamo, and you are going to keep firing away, until you have not a single drop of ammunition remaining.I said several days ago I was quite happy to put all this aside unless anyone else had anything to say. Unfortunately they did. Your friends here decided I was the problem; that I owed you an apology; that manners are more important than facts etc. But no; I’m not going to spend too much more time on this. If anyone is still harboring under any delusions about you being owed an apology, then like Armstrong’s minions, they’re too far gone to reach. Now you have gone back to the old Usenet archives from September, 1998 (that’s 14 years ago) You seem to have some fixation with time-spans, as if historical facts have a use-by date. Why is that, David? but nothing you have found in any way contradicts the essence of what I have said, and will repeat here again, since I fear you are a slow learner. The Fort Worth news stories (which you seem to be so obsessed with) were not my focus at all. As I have repeatedly stated, my focus --in determining when Oswald knew McBride (and what year it was that they both worked at Pfisterer Dental Laboratories in New Orleans)--was on the Oswald and McBride federal tax records. Yes. Apparently to the exclusion of all other probative and supportive evidence allegedly at your disposal. I mean, here you are, telling me I’m fixated on the Ft Worth news stories to the exclusion of other evidence. Yet this is just one thread. I’ve never mentioned them elsewhere. You, on the other hand, have had many years of being fixated on the tax records TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHER EVIDENCE WHICH COULD DEMONSTRATE McBRIDE WAS IN ERROR. And you have no way of explaining that away, do you David, except to repeat your mantra that the tax records were your “focus” – as if that explains your total disregard of the Ft Worth stories – even AFTER you knew Armstrong was claiming the tax records were faked. Here, let me go through this again, for I fear you are behaving like a little mouse on a treadmill, and simply cannot get off. But let's give it another try. . . : 1) I interviewed Palmer McBride first in September, 1994, and then on October 2, 1994, on camera. In that on-camera filmed interview, McBride admitted to me that his original 11/23/63 statement about when he knew Oswald was incorrect. You will find excerpts from those interviews earlier on this thread. (See my previous summarizing post for more detail, or posts # 124 and # 128 for the exact quotes). “Exact quotes”? Not according to Armstrong. Here is how Armstrong claims it went down: McBride told Lifton he was certain he worked with Oswald "post- Sputnik" (10/4/57). When Lifton told McBride he must have worked with Oswald either before (1956) or after (1959) Oswald's Marine service, McBride again told Lifton "it was ‘post- Sputnik.'" However, in order to answer Lifton’s question, McBride said, "It could not have been in 1959, so it must have been 1956." Lifton’s coercion and approach is, simply put, pathetic. You really do need to post the video to Youtube so we can see whose lying on this issue. Or are you going to expect everyone to take your word on it, like you are trying to do here? 2) The next month, in November, 1994, I asked Deborah Conway to go to the Fort Worth Public Library and peruse the Fort Worth Star-Telegram for the TV listings of Oswald’s favorite TV program I Led 3 Lives, to see if it was being broadcast that summer. (It was). Which was your THIRD version of why you had someone go to the Ft Worth library. And it only appeared AFTER I pointed out how silly your second version was. You can keep repeating this, trying to convey that this was your version all along. Bit it wasn’t. And you can’t explain it away. 3) In connection with that search, Debra also noticed (please note those two words, "also noticed") the news stories about the civil unrest in Ft Worth, and told me about (and sent me) those stories. Yes, I do note that your FIRST version had some un-named paid lackey going to the library specifically to look for those riot stories. You had to drop that because you had to admit you’d never written anything about them, leaving you in the unenviable position of having to disavow a specific search for them, then down-play there importance… while at the same time, admit their utility in disproving McBride’s account. That’s some juggling act. Unfortunately for you, I’m not easily mesmerized by hucksters. These were stories that were published locally—in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram—and not the same as the stories you found, just recently, through a Google News search, and which were published thousands of miles away, in some other American newspaper Actually, one was in an Australian newspaper (e.g., the item you located that was published in the Spokane [Washington] Daily Chronicle, with a Fort Worth dateline). FYI: The stories that Debra found were the actual stories--published locally--that would have been read by Lee Oswald, when he was living in Fort Worth, Texas, between July 1, 1956, when he moved there from New Orleans, and October 24, 1956, when he enlisted in the Marines. You’re just underlining how ridiculous your failure was in never bringing those stories up with Armstrong, or anyone else. But that’s what happens when you set out to deceive. You tie yourself up in all manner of logical knots. 4) In the summer of 1995, the ARRB opened for business, and Doug Horne was on the staff. On September 17, 1996, the ARRB held hearings here in Los Angeles, and I was a witness. Throughout the life of the ARRB, I was in touch with Doug Horne, and, on any number of occasions, with Jeremy Gunn, because they were deposing witnesses who were prominent from my book BEST EVIDENCE. In connection with my ongoing relationship with Jeremy Gunn and Doug Horne, I urged the ARRB to seek the tax records of Palmer McBride and Lee Oswald, for calendar year 1956, to establish, without any question, when Oswald (and McBride) worked at Pfisterer Dental Laboratories. 5) FYI (and I have not mentioned this previously): I also urged John Armstrong to write the IRS, and seek tax records; and also for him to urge anyone he knew at Pfisterer, to also seek tax records—i.e., Pfisterer’s actual tax returns, as well, and particularly the Social Security Records ("Form 941") which are records of Employer Withholding, and which would establish exactly when McBride and when Oswald, worked there. John finally moved off his butt, and requested certain records, and the response he received (from the IRS, concerning the matter of "Employer Identification Number") was, imho, rather inadequate. Armstrong was sent letters which (to him) falsely suggested that his hypothesis was correct. I—and others—were sure that those IRS letters were incorrect. Consequently, I (for one) redoubled my efforts to get the ARRB to "clarify the record" Exactly. Except that previously, you have been making the argument that you never brought up the Ft worth news stories because you had no idea Armstrong would proclaim the tax records as fakes. Clearly, you DID know that this was his position, yet you remained mute about those newspaper stories – which do just what you say you wanted – clarify the record! and to seek the actual original IRS tax records, and to do so before 9/30/98, when the ARRB would no longer exist. Otherwise, Armstrong would be forever proclaiming that the IRS had supplied him information which "proved" that his hypothesis was correct, when it was not. Except you have previously admitted the Ft Worth articles cannot be disputed in the manner that the tax records were – yet you remained silent about them. They were not your “focus”. Your “focus” remained on debating the tax records which Armstrong claimed were fakes. 6) What I have said above (in point number 5) is exactly why I wrote the ARRB the fax I did in early September, 1998, urging them to do their job correctly, and seek those records. Their legisltative mandate, after all, was to "clarify the record." Again, I repeat: my concern was not the Fort Worth newspaper stories, on which you seem to obsess. Yes, I know. You were “ focused” on the tax records and couldn’t think of any other way to “clarify the records”. 7) Through my personal contacts with Doug Horne, and/or Jeremy Gunn (ARRB Director and General Counsel), I learned that certain tax records had in fact been located, and I also knew (by that time) what the verdict was: the records established that Oswald worked at Pfisterer Dental Laboratories in 1956, just as his own federal 1956 tax return (Form 1040) indicated. Furthermore: Oswald's IRS Form 1040 for 1956--i.e., his actual 1956 tax return-- was also located, and made part of the JFK Records Collection. It showed that Oswald himself listed Pfisterer Dental Labs as one of this employers in 1956 (and IRS W-2 records also backed this up). From my "back channel" communications with the ARRB (and specifically with Doiug Horne) I knew the answer to the puzzle before the ARRB released its official report a short while later: the tax records proved Armstrong’s hypothesis (re McBride) to be false. Except for one problem: Armstrong wouldn’t accept the verdict. And you kept your mouth tightly shut about evidence he could not dispute. 8) Consequently, I went online--in what was then called "Deja News" (the on-line news group)--and made certain posts about that subject; and you have located those posts. My general reaction to this Internet search effort about my past posts, in which you have been engaged, is simply this: So what? It doesn’t change anything that I have said. To the contrary, it only reinforces and corroborates my own account. Which, of the growing number of accounts would that be, David? It certainly corroborates your memory of never having written about those stories. 9) To repeat for the umpteenth time: I didn’t think the Sept/August 1956 Fort Worth news accounts (about civil unrest) were all that significant, because my focus was on the tax records, not those stories. From the 14 year old Usenet posts you have located, you have only corroborated my own account, and further established that my focus was on the tax records, and not on the 1956 news stories. You can find as many posts as you wish--you will not be able to change that basic fact, because it happens to be true. Yes, unfortunately for you, it is. Just as unfortunate, you have previously stated that the Ft Worth stories were important – and that is backed up by your more recent call to go back and get all those stories all over again – and by Gary Mack’s offer to look for archival footage of the events for a documentary you are apparently working on. And let me add this one other point: not only was my focus on the tax records (which I think is very obvious, from my own posts, and the letter I wrote the ARRB in early September, 1998), it is also very possible--even likely--that I completely forgot about the "Fort Worth news stories," which is very likely one reason I did not mention them. (Yes, its possible that when one is dealing with thousands of files, and facts and factoids, that its possible to not remember every single thing. . . but I digress. . . ) You FORGOT about them??? And, as you state in past posts, eventually lost them… without ever mentioning them a single time? Tell me something – you initially took the credit for connecting the dots from those stories to Oswald’s letter, before deciding it was actually Debra Conway who did that. Since she obviously saw merit in those stories, can you point to anywhere she has mentioned them? Now returning to your own research (circa 2011 or 2012), and which you apparently think I am trying to take credit for, or steal. . .No. Not “think” – “know”. That conclusion is inescapable for anyone not unduly influenced by friendship, arrogance, or stupidity. 10) Rather recently, you have entered this maze, but from a slightly different direction. Apparently, you have plugged the word “riots” and “Fort Worth” into a Google News search engine, and come up with wire service dispatches about the (August/September, 1956) Fort Worth civil unrest. You have rightly pointed out that these dispatches appear to offer a reasonably close match to the incident(s) mentioned in Palmer McBride’s 11/23/63 statement (based on a letter he [McBride] had received from Oswald, after he and his mother left New Orleans (on 6/30/56) and moved to Fort Worth. Further, you have argued that, because of that approximate "match," those stories offer good data showing that Palmer McBride’s original statement as to the time period he was talking about, in his 11/23/63 statement, was wrong. It was 1956, not 1957 or 1958. And I agree. But none of that is inconsistent with that account I previously wrote. None of that changes the basic fact that I learned of the Fort Worth civil unrest (circa "summer of 1956") from Debra Conway, when, at my request, she did certain library research back in November, 1994. You are right. None of it changes your STORY. 11) Interestingly enough—now, in the year 2012, and as a result of Google News--you have such news stories, published thousands of miles away, in other American cities (e.g., your recent post about an article in the Spokane, Washington, Daily Chronicle, published on 9/3/56). Now pardon me, but these are not the actual stories that Oswald read, and on the basis of which he would have written to Palmer McBride. Oswald was reading the actual news stories in Ft Worth, not from Spokane, Washington, or Dayton, Ohio, which may have come up in a Google News search. What Debra located were actual copies of the Fort Worth news stories, as published, locally, in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, and she located them because of the work she did and the effort she expended when she went to the Fort Worth Public Library, in November, 1994. Now you may not wish to believe that, and you may characterize her effort with insulting terminology, but that is your problem. At this point, we enter the realm of psychology--your psychology--and if all you can do, by way of reaction to this situation, is to spit and curse, like an out-of-control adolescant--then perhaps you should seek outside help. I haven’t insulted Debra – you have, by initially claiming she was a paid lackey, and then by stealing her limelight by claiming it was you who connected the dots. 12) I’m oh so sorry if you are unwilling to believe the facts as I have described them, but David, your descriptions have been constantly contradicted; your reasons for not doing anything with the information, frankly unbelievable (you should have taken heed of George Washington when he said, “It is better to offer no excuse than a bad one”) but that’s exactly what happened. Its unfortunate that, because of your personal animus towards me, and your single minded, paranoid (and quite mistaken) focus on the idea that I have been trying to “steal” your “original research,” that all you can “see” is the notion that I made up a story about Debra Conway assisting me (by going to the Fort Worth Public Library, in November, 1994), and that I constructed such a fiction so that I might steal your idea(s). That is total nonsense. You’ve been told how you can put me in my place – produce some evidence. And I have even told you to sue me if you believe I have libelled you. 13) I don’t know any way to change your mind, because you don’t seem open to reason. I could recommend that you undergo some “surgery of the head area, namely, in the top of your skull,” but that would probably be bad medical advice, and, despite your thick-headedness, I don’t believe the chances are high that you would survive such a procedure. I’ll settle for the body swap, thanks all the same. This one’s had a bit of wear and tear. 14) But, considering the kinds of tendentious and silly argument you persist in advancing, your apparent obsession with these "Fort Worth news stories," and the largely irrelevant “archival” research in which you have been engaged to promote your hypothesis (about me)--in short, your single minded focus on what has been truly peripheral yet how much bandwith have you now used up in tying yourself in knots trying to find a way out of this mess of your own creating? A hell of a lot for something you claim is a “peripheral” issue--I am reminded of what a noted law professor once stated, in an other context, but in words that apply to you: “Great trial lawyers have an instinct for the jugular. You, sir, have an instinct for the capillaries.” Well, I’m no law professor, but I do know you can’t survive without capillaries. Good day. DSL 9/16/12; 12:10 PDT Edited, 3:30 PM PDT Los Angeles, California I'm quite happy now to leave you and your friends including the Merry Mods while you all hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" and earn your Merit Badges for good manners and cleanliness. That old Nazi pedophile, Baden-Powell would be so proud... Edited September 17, 2012 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) The John Armstrong "Two Oswalds" theory is one of the greatest sub-canards in JFK research. It is right up there with thinking the 3 tramps were CIA operatives or assassins. I looked at John Armstrong's photo's of "Harvey" and "Lee" and they all look like the same guy to me!! Add that to the fact that because Oswald the patsy received so much national exposure that it was bound to lead to many false accounts of bogus Oswald sightings. Having said that I will give John Armstong some credit for some good research in other areas, namely the rifle and Mexico City. And having said THAT, I am of the belief that Oswald did in fact go to Mexico City in the summer of 1963, despite (maybe because of) what David Atlee Phillips later told Mark Lane. Robert You might just try READING the book before being so dismissive. Dawn I see you are in touch with my old friend Rachel. She's good people. I see once again you do not have any comprehension of the term "in confidence". I just talked with Rachel, you should not expect to be in communication with her again. She is a very private person and was not at all happy with all you have posted at Lancer. Edited September 17, 2012 by Dawn Meredith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) Before I address all that (which I will attempt to do) could you please supply me with specific data regarding the following issues. QUESTION #1: Why have you stated that there is an anomaly regarding Oswald's residence at 126 Exchange Place; specifically, in your post # 172 ("yesterday"), you allege the following anomaly: ". . with the Oswalds living at both Exchange and St. Mary's in the Spring of 1954". . (my emphasis added). Please explain why you believe this to be so; i.e., on what do you base such an assertion? I'll do the best I can David.... HARVEY moved to NOLA at the end of Summer 1953, after he’s in Stanley ND. (Have you spoken to Alma Cole and William Timmer?) Lee and his mother are in NYC and from May 1953 thru Dec 1953 MO works at Lady Orva Hosiery while LEE attends PS44 The address on BJHS records is listed as 809 French St. The address of Lillian Murret, MO’s sister. After contacting NOLA, BJHS nor Lillian, nor Myrtle Evans seem to have been contacted to explain where little Ozzie is. This I believe to be made up. There are notes that the Oswalds were moving to NJ first, then this about CA By this date MO and LEE were living at 1454 St Mary’s… this page of the FBI report lists her address thru 1954 and 1955 in NOLA as 1454 St. Mary’s. Except here is the photo of MO at 126 Exchange in 1954. Myra DeRouse tells us she takes Harvey home to 126 Exchange in February 1954. Neither Exchange or St Mary’s is in BJHS zone… There was no reason for Harvey or Lee to have gone to BJHS to begin with… http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10560&relPageId=6 In addition, I have these queries: #2: Could you please tell me where these unit diaries are posted on the Internet? I'd also like to bring myself up to date on just when these items became available, and where they might be posted, on the Internet. FYI: Some years back, I tried to get them--from NARA--but apparently I was attempting to do so just prior to the time the JFK Records Act forced their release, so the answer was "no". Anyway, I do not today know where this data is posted. The Diaries are in the Baylor collection and on the CD that comes with Harvey and Lee. I was able to download the entire thing thru a member of the forum’s online “box”… very handy. #3: Another question: I have always been interested in the matter of LHO being briefly stationed at Iwakuni, before returning from his Far East tour. (This is mentioned in Epstein's LEGEND). Are there Unit Diaries posted for that sojourn? Please advise. I found the same reference in Crossfire… seems to be the time period after HARVEY gets back from Taiwan and is immediately “gone” In the diaries he returns on October 5th and is at the Hospital from the 7th thru the 13th…. Yet the only records are for the STD treatment dated 9/29, 10/6 and 10/24… all for the same thing. I believe HARVEY was sent to Iwakuni until LEE was taken care of… there is no record for Oswald from 10/13 thru 11/1 when he leaves for SF, USA. Owen Dejanovich – who knew him previously – sees him again yet Oswald refuses to acknowledge him, and that the Oswald Owen knew CHANGED… and was speaking “communism” and making fun of the Marines, things Owen does not remember the Oswald he knew ever doing. #4 Finally, and addressing the period Fall 1953/Spring 1954 (when LHO was in the 8th grade): Could you please spell out--in plain English (and avoiding the "jargon" of "Harvey" and "Lee", which I find very confusing)--just why it is that you believe Oswald did not simply exit NYC at the tail end of December, 1953, proceed to New Orleans (with his mother), and then register at Beauregard Junior High School on January 13, 1954? Again: please try to avoid using the specialized lingo of "Harvey and Lee". (IMHO, that only clutters up the discussion). FYI: From my examination of the records, I don't see anything unusual is going on. Oswald left New York City with his mom at the tail end of December, 1953 (when Marguerite was clearly worried about losing her son to the legal system, again), and they arrived in New Orleans, and he registered at Beauregard on January 13, 1954. What is the problem with that? (FYI: I don't see any problem with that, but if you do, I'd like to know the specifics. Thank you. DSL 1. NYC records show LHO as 62 1.2” and 114lbs in MAY 1953 2. The photo of the boy at the Bronx Zoo was not ID’d by John as his brother, nor is this person 5’3’ 114 lbs 3. NYC records show LHO entering school 9/53 at 64” and 115lbs 4. Myra DeRouse has LHO in her homeroom in the basement, this boy barely reaches her chin, Myra is 5'3" 5. LHO is shown taking 2 classes in the FALL of 1953, General Science and Phy. Ed. And attending 89 days and missing 1. In addition he attends 90 days and misses 4 in the SPRING semester. 6. The NYC records are in direct conflict with the FBI & Carro reports - LHO transfers to PS44 1/16/53 but does not attend a single day - 3/19/53 (CD 60 p14) a Warrant to be executed against LHO - 4/16/53 No MO, no LHO, LHO is remanded to Youth House until 5/7/53 (“FOR PSYCHIATRIC STUDY”) - NYC PS44 reports on 3/23/53 that LHO begins attending again and attends 109 3/2 days with 15 5/2 days absent. DAVID – 124 SCHOOL days from 3/23/53 ? It is 70 days from 3/23 until June 26th… How does LHO attend/miss 124 total school days from 3/23/53 until the end of the SPRING 1953 semester - on 5/7/53 LHO and MO are before Justice McClancy who advises LHO to "Return to school as soon as possible to attend school regularly". (Even if all of the 15 days of absence were from 3/23/53 he would have been attending regularly since 4/13/53 and attended 4 straight weeks without an absence – DURING THE TIME he is supposed to be at Youth House) - on June 4th 1953 Carro contacts Salvation Army to possibly accept Oswald’s case (this now would be another 40 SCHOOL DAYS after he starts regularly attending PS44, so we have him attending 12 weeks STRAIGHT – without an absence (if he missed the first 15 days) yet the PO Carro is still working on placing the boy. NOTHING IS DONE NOW UNTIL September 24, 1953… 11 days after LHO begins attending PS44, the 8th grade.. - Carro says that Mr.s O calls to say that Lee attended regularly since May 7th (so the 15 days of absences are spread over 3/23 – 5/7 34 days of SCHOOL) and at the present tie he is in 9th grade (skipped a grade?) and elected class president. David – are you still going to tell us that this 5’4” 115lbs Oswald is the same Oswald as the one in the Bronx Zoo photo, the same LHO described by Myra DeRouse or any of the doctors who saw the troubled youth as opposed to the “normal, loud, leader” that was LEE? 7. And Finally… there is the BJHS records showing Oswald’s attendance in the FALL SEMESTER of 1953 and taking two classes and NOT being given a homeroom. 8. Not a single WCR witness who had gone to school with Oswald at BJHS was asked about 1953/54.. NOT ONE. Each and everyone tells us that LHO was there in 54/55… which we all knew. Why do you suppose not a single person was brought to the WC who could have said Oswald was in NOLA in Sept 1953… when the records show him going into 8th grade at PS44 Turns out David, that most if not all the records of his time in NYC are copies including the school and psychiatric records… there is no way to confirm that these copies represent the originals in any manner… would the FBI lose original documents on purpose??? P.S. ("#5" on my list of questions): One other thing: I notice you use the language "a lowly radar operator." I'm sure you understand that I am not a "lone nutter" nor do I subscribe to the official version of the Kennedy assassination (nor to the "official biography" of Oswald). Moreover, I am well aware that his one-year overseas tour in the Far East (which included a posting at Atsugi Naval Air Station, which was a U-2 base) was then followed by an approximately 8 - 9 month stay at El Toro Marine Base in Southern California; and then, following his 9/11/59 USMC discharge, by a brief visit home, and then by his globe-spanning journey to the USSR, his arrival in Moscow on 10/16, and by his defection (what his mother called his "so-called defection"). So it would not surprise me at all if various anomalies turned up in connection with the USMC tour of duty: rest assured, I am interested in them all. Where we possibly disagree is with the notion that a "double Oswald" hypothesis (or any variant of that, as offered by Armstrong, and as set forth in Harvey and Lee) is necessary, or is the proper explanation for any such anomalies. DSL Well then David… I have to ask again… Do you believe it possible that the USGov’t would create an asset, like a LHO, who could be used for any of a variety of missions, and that creation would include the blending of histories so that two people’s pasts create one very hard to investigate person? If it is not “possible” then it’s not worth discussing… No David, H&L is not “necessary”, it just happens to explain many of Oswald’s historical inconsistencies… without the need for records to be MISTAKES… mistakes that seem only to make Oswald more guilty… there are never, ever mistakes that help Oswald. Cheers DJ Edited November 29, 2017 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 There are 2 classes and 89 days of attendance you seem to be forgetting on the first line of 53-54. Along with Myra DeRouse. The third line is a TOTAL of the two semesters... 89 in one 90 in another.It SAYS he attended 179 days with 5 absences. How do you not see that? the 1954-1-13 written there could be ANYTHING Greg... as it would be impossible for him to go to 89 days of school unless he was there from September on... Impossible? David, please - step back a bit and put your brain into gear. We are talking about SCHOOL years - not CALENDAR years. I previously said this - reposted now because you seem to have missed it, forgotten it, or not understood it the first time: I'm beginning to finally understand how you've got yourself so confused about this. What it shows is a commencement date of 1/13/54. I would assume that date falls within the 53/54 school year. A quick check tells me that that school years vary from state to state and county to county. IN Alabama for instance, most counties start the school year in August and end it the following May. If Oswald was enrolled on 13/1/54 and we count forward 89 school days, we end up in the middle of May - a common end date for school years. There is NOTHING -- I repeat NOTHING suspicious or out of the ordinary in Oswald's school records. bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) On 9/18/2012 at 8:13 PM, Greg Parker said: On 9/10/2012 at 6:16 PM, Greg Parker said: Quote There are 2 classes and 89 days of attendance you seem to be forgetting on the first line of 53-54. Along with Myra DeRouse. The third line is a TOTAL of the two semesters... 89 in one 90 in another. It SAYS he attended 179 days with 5 absences. How do you not see that? the 1954-1-13 written there could be ANYTHING Greg... as it would be impossible for him to go to 89 days of school unless he was there from September on... Impossible? David, please - step back a bit and put your brain into gear. We are talking about SCHOOL years - not CALENDAR years. I previously said this - reposted now because you seem to have missed it, forgotten it, or not understood it the first time: I'm beginning to finally understand how you've got yourself so confused about this. What it shows is a commencement date of 1/13/54. I would assume that date falls within the 53/54 school year. A quick check tells me that that school years vary from state to state and county to county. IN Alabama for instance, most counties start the school year in August and end it the following May. If Oswald was enrolled on 13/1/54 and we count forward 89 school days, we end up in the middle of May - a common end date for school years. There is NOTHING -- I repeat NOTHING suspicious or out of the ordinary in Oswald's school records. bump Then let's try it again Greg... if you still believe this is not suspicious, so be it... I understand the difference between CY and School Year... and your repeated inferences about my memory, thought process and intelligence is once again the NEW Greg... the condescending A$$hole who no one would recognize if they read your posts from this thread ... The Greg I've been reading over the years was NEVER like the one posting on this thread - seems to me you have other, much greater concerns going on to cause this violent and uncharacteristic posting... in any case, I will try yet again to illustrate my position - although if you read my reply to DSL you'd know what I was talking about. ...we need to go back to 1952 for a moment... after they moved to NYC Oswald supposedly attended 2 weeks at a Lutheran school On 9/30/52 he enters PS117 and is truant 3/4 of the time (Greg - does the FBI speak to anyone from PS117 who remembers Oswald?) "One teacher at PS #117, Mrs. Dorrit E. Woolf (who now resides in Boynton Beach, Florida), wrote a letter to a local newspaper in 1999 and claimed that she was Oswald's art teacher.11 Mrs. Woolf taught eight art classes per day, each lasting 42 minutes. She remembered Lee Harvey Oswald as a very intelligent young boy who was a very small, isolated individual, and was "slightly deaf." NOTE: Mrs. Woolfs observation that Oswald was "slightly deaf' is corroborated by a notation in the PS #44 school file, dated May 18, 1953, which states, "Teacher will arrange for exam at PS #47 (school for the deaf) for hearing. " If you look at my response to DSL you can pick it up from there thru the "transformation" this SMALL BOY who finally gets back into school in March 1953, becomes a 5'2" 114lbs by the time he is measured in MAY 1953. The BRONX ZOO photo is NOT the same person... a child does not GROW then SHRINK then GROW again... He does not go from constant Truancy, loner, quiet, kept to himself to CLASS PRESIDENT (please read my reply to DSL) in June 1953 this boy was mentally unstable, lived in a fantasy world, etc... and need psychiatric help - BADLY according to NY State. On 9/8/53 his PO report states the Salvation Army wouldn't even try to deal with the boy - that he is "severely disturbed" On 9/24/53 the report VIA PHONE from his mom is that he has been attending school, that he was elected class president and that he was now in the 9th grade - skipping a grade even after the grades and truancies? http://www.maryferre...61&relPageId=26 (this was obviously MO doing what she could to keep HARVEY away from court... this was also when LEE and HARVEY's records become one person instead of two.) Mr. JENNER - Then right below that is a picture of a young man standing in front of an iron fence, which appears to be probably at a zoo. Do you recognize that? Mr. PIC - Sir, from that picture, I could not recognize that that is Lee Harvey Oswald. Mr. JENNER - That young fellow is shown there, he doesn't look like you recall Lee looked in 1952 and 1953 when you saw him in New York City? Mr. PIC - No, sir. Mr. JENNER - Commission Exhibit No. 284 do you recognize anybody in that picture that appears to be Lee Oswald? Mr. PIC - No, sir. (this is the famous missing tooth photo where Myra DeRouse names most everyone in the photo yet does not recognize LEE as HARVEY, the boy in her class, the boy she drives home after a piano falls on him) Mr. JENNER - There is a young fellow in the foreground-everybody else is facing the other way. He is in a pantomime, or grimace. Do you recognize that as Lee Harvey Oswald? Mr. PIC - No, sir; looking at that picture and I have looked at it several times--that looks more like Robert than it does Lee, to my recollection. LEE Oswald moved to NOLA in January 1954. LEE Oswald moved into 1454 St Marys, Myrtle Evans' place after staying with Lillian Murret, MO's sister in JANUARY 1954 HARVEY was already in NOLA, living on Exchange St and attending BJHS Again from Armstrong's book.. Louise Robertson was hired by MO while in NYC to be a MAID... she worked about 6 weeks thru the summer of 1953 when the Oswald's simply up and left BEFORE the beginning of the 1953/54 school year (Stanley ND, NOLA) (as a side note - MO sold her car in NYC in 1952... HOW did they get from NYC to NOLA... either pair of mother and son??) Now, one again, look at the BJHS records... Do you understand that there are 90 days or so in each semester? That 90 school days from Sept brings us to Dec 31, 1963.... (if the semester starts at the end of August there is even time for the winter break... that 90 days again from 1/13/54 is the end of May early June.... the END of the 53/54 school year? That the first line of records from 53-54 tells us the a Lee Oswald transfered from PS44 (yet has the wrong name for the school listed) moved into 809 French Street (Lillian Murret)... and kept that address since it was in the BJHS zone (my assumption). HARVEY and MO never moved in with Lillian... LEE did, and then LEE and MO moved to 1454 St Marys - the Evans' place. HARVEY and MO moved from Stanley ND to 126 Exchange from which the photos of MO are taken... again, as mentioned in my reply to DSL... Exchange is 3 miles down Canal Street from BJHS.. According to Myra, HARVEY arrives to school very early and is waiting for her... He rides his bike to and from Also according to Myra, HARVEY tells her that his mom works at a BAR after being dropped off at 126 Exchange Apt 201. According to each and every FBI witness you offered and others you didn't... not a single soul is asked about Oswald at BJHS in 53/54... not one. Why? Cause he couldn't be both in NYC and NOLA at the same time... so nobody asks. The only known FBI report of an interview of Myra DaRouse is a half-page report, dated April 2, 1964, by SA Donald C. Steinmeyer. The report stated that Myra was interviewed at 3116 Prytania, Apt 29, and not behind a locked door in her office in the basement of Beauregard. When I told Myra about the half-page report she laughed and said, "I was never interviewed in my apartment. I talked to that FBI man in my office for two hours about Oswald, with the door locked, and everything I said about Oswald was good. The things in this report are not what I told that agent." I ended my conversation with Myra by asking if I could interview her in New Orleans, and she agreed. Good thing there is nothing suspicious about any of this... That there are no original records from BJHS is NOTHING SUSPICIOUS? That there are no original records ANYWHERE for these years is again, nothing suspicious.... That the FBI specifically excludes discussions of 1953, nothing suspicious... That the WC does not call ANYONE who might have known HARVEY up to 1954, not suspicious... That his own brother does not recognize HARVEY's photos but easily recognizes LEE from that time period That Robert LIES about when and where he sees his younger brother - especially the NYC visit in late fall 1952... NOT SUSPICIOUS GREG... so please, don't bother investigating or reading anything more about it.... Mr. PIC - So they moved out in about September 1952, maybe it was late September, early October, somewhere around there, so from about somewhere between September of 1952 and January 1953, my brother Robert came to New York on leave, and we were all invited up to the Bronx. Mr. PIC - No, sir; he may have stayed with my mother also. I don't think so. Maybe for a night or two. We went out, my wife fixed him up with a date with one of her girl friends and we went out together a couple of times. So, we were invited up there for this Sunday dinner. So it was my mother, Lee, Robert, my wife, myself, and my son. Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; we were corresponding infrequently, I would say--not very many letters between I and Lee direct when I was in the service, especially the first part of my tour in the service. In 1952, after traveling from Camp Pendleton, Calif., to Jacksonville, Fla. I did have a 10-day leave. They were in New York City at that time. Mr. JENNER. This was then some time in 1953, I take it? Mr. OSWALD. No, sir--1952. Mr. JENNER. 1952? Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. This was---- Mr. JENNER. You mean your mother and Lee that is the period of time they were in New York City? Mr. OSWALD. That's correct. Mr. JENNER. Living there. Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. Mr. JENNER. Did you see them? Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; not at that time. I spent my leave in Fort Worth, because I did not feel I had enough time to travel to New York and down to Jacksonville, Fla. After completing metalsmith school at Millington, Tenn., I took a 10-day leave. Greg - I can't help that you don't see it. Anyone looking at the records without YOUR preconceived conclusions... see a Lee Oswald attending 179 days of school in the 53/54 year at BJHS... 89 in the FALL and 90 in the SPRING that is what the transcript says. That you think the 1/13/54 has significance is interesting in that it illustrates the combining of records... HARVEY never lived with Lillian, LEE did. LEE comes from NYC to NOLA in January 1954 (again - how did they make that trip Greg? in the middle of winter) HARVEY never lived at 809 French, LEE does. Myra does not take HARVEY to French or St Marys but 126 EXCHANGE... straight down Canal... Conveniently, the records for 126 Eschange were destroyed in 1956... http://www.maryferre...56&relPageId=84 So let's stay on task here Greg... what about the BJHS records from the FALL 1953 showing Oswald taking and getting GRADES in 2 classes while attending 89 out of 90 school days do you not understand? Do children normally get grades and attendance records from schools they do not attend? Do you finally understand that this document represents evidence that the two boys' histories were blended together? .... LEE lived at 809 French LEE moved into 1454 St Marys in the spring of 1954 The FBI reports of Oswald "acquaintences" that YOU linked us to from that period do not discuss 1953... EVER, and give the appearance of a boilerplate statement with simply the names changed... SOP for the FBI. I think I've done more than my share explaining this to you... the school records alone establish SUSPICION... when you add in ROBERT, JOHN, MYRA, the PHOTOS, the testimony of those who dealt with the SMALL HARVEY in NYC versus the larger LEE, MO's horrible memory (she even states she married Eckdahl 7 years after she actually did), and on and on... at the very least we have SUSPICION... Now maybe you can explain, as I mention above, how grades and attendance are recorded for a child NOT attending the school offering these records? When you look at BJHS as the continuation of the H&L saga, the NYC and BJHS records - along with the truancies, missed court dates, and verbal descriptions of HARVEY... it actually all makes sense. Or you can just believe the FBI - did you give Swearingen's book on the FBI a read? Would you trust ANYTHING coming out of the FBI after that ? Edited March 7, 2017 by David Josephs no room left for more attachments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) Then let's try it again Greg... if you still believe this is not suspicious, so be it... I understand the difference between CY and School Year... You’re showing no signs of understanding the difference, David. and your repeated inferences about my memory, thought process and intelligence is once again the NEW Greg... the condescending A$$hole who no one would recognize if they read your posts from this thread ... Because you keep going off on tangents without addressing the actual document in question. Reading your replies is painful: akin to listening to the incoherent fulminations of a Southern Baptist who has no answer to evolution, so simply ignores the arguments as presented and repeats his Bible quotes, chapter and verse ad infinitum. The Greg I've been reading over the years was NEVER like the one posting on this thread - seems to me you have other, much greater concerns going on to cause this violent and uncharacteristic posting... in any case, I will try yet again to illustrate my position - although if you read my reply to DSL you'd know what I was talking about. The David I’ve been reading is completely AWOL. He had some ability at parsing the evidence. This may give rise to a David and Dee doppelganger theory. Have you ever lived in North Dalota? How tall is your mother? I tried to read your response to Mr Lifton, but honestly couldn’t finish it. I merely noted that once again, you could not specifically address the Beauregard records, which is why I bumped the post showing what they say. ...we need to go back to 1952 for a moment... after they moved to NYC Oswald supposedly attended 2 weeks at a Lutheran school On 9/30/52 he enters PS117 and is truant 3/4 of the time (Greg - does the FBI speak to anyone from PS117 who remembers Oswald?) Why would it matter? You don’t believe FBI reports, anyway – unless they can be used to support this goofiness. As for his truancy – you’ll find it can be further pinned down to starting very shortly after he turned 13. "One teacher at PS #117, Mrs. Dorrit E. Woolf (who now resides in Boynton Beach, Florida), wrote a letter to a local newspaper in 1999 and claimed that she was Oswald's art teacher.11 Mrs. Woolf taught eight art classes per day, each lasting 42 minutes. She remembered Lee Harvey Oswald as a very intelligent young boy who was a very small, isolated individual, and was "slightly deaf." Is that what she said in the original (i.e. pre-Armstrong contact) interview, or did all those details emerge only after Armstrong came along? All I could find was a news article from 2010 in which she merely noted Oswald was one of the “quiet ones”. In any case, “small” is a relative term – and quite often the “quiet ones” will be remembered as “small” whether they are or not, because of a psychological perception that equates “quiet” with “small”. He was certainly not BIG – whatever that also may mean to any given individual. “Big” and “small” are relative – and therefore – meaningless terms. He did have a hearing problem caused by his recurring otitis media. It is one of the key indicators that this was one individual throughout the records because the otitis media follows him from NO to NY and into the school system, into the courts and into Youth House, followed by the Marines and onto the Soviet Union. But you won’t address this because you can’t without putting forward that either ( A ) the records have (yet again) been tampered with, or ( B ) they both had hearing problems caused by otitis media. In either case, you’d be venturing into the Theater of the Absurd (yet again). NOTE: Mrs. Woolfs observation that Oswald was "slightly deaf' is corroborated by a notation in the PS #44 school file, dated May 18, 1953, which states, "Teacher will arrange for exam at PS #47 (school for the deaf) for hearing. " Good. You’ve established that the kid who was at PS # 117 also attended PS # 44 a year later. If you look at my response to DSL you can pick it up from there thru the "transformation" this SMALL BOY who finally gets back into school in March 1953, becomes a 5'2" 114lbs by the time he is measured in MAY 1953. The BRONX ZOO photo is NOT the same person... a child does not GROW then SHRINK then GROW again... Who said he did shrink and grow? That’s an unwarranted assumption. How can you even tell how tall he is in the zoo photo? He does not go from constant Truancy, loner, quiet, kept to himself to CLASS PRESIDENT (please read my reply to DSL) Again – how do you KNOW? Suppose I was to tell you that I knew a kid with Asperger’s who was regarded as quiet, a loner, even a black sheep within his own family, who also truanted but on moving to a new school, was nominated for class captain? Can’t happen according to you. No. According to you, the only way to explain this is to postulate that it was two different boys, of different height, build, eye color and intelligence levels. file:///C:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\03\clip_image001.gif Lee and Harvey - 1953.jpg 195.9K 0 downloads in June 1953 this boy was mentally unstable, lived in a fantasy world, etc... and need psychiatric help - BADLY according to NY State. Hartogs diagnosed a "personality pattern disturbance with schizoid features and passive - aggressive tendencies." It was the nearest thing to a correct diagnosis he could make because the option of diagnosing Asperger’s was simply not open to him in the US in the 1950s. Dr Asperger himself, referred to the syndrome as a personality disorder, and even now, it can be misdiagnosed as a personality or schizoid disorder: http://www.mastersonkongresi.com/en/masterson-days/5masterson/presentation-papers/65-differential-diagnosis-schizoid-disorder-vs-aspergers-syndrome.html On 9/8/53 his PO report states the Salvation Army wouldn't even try to deal with the boy - that he is "severely disturbed" Which is a crock. You know, I know and everyone here knows that the Salvation Army deals daily with far more “disturbed” individuals than Oswald was – and always has done. I think that the Salvation Army over-reacted to the word “schizoid” and took it to mean he was a danger to himself and others – a common misconception now, let alone then. If he actually had been a danger, then their suggestion that he needed “direct psychiatric treatment” would have been a correct one. On 9/24/53 the report VIA PHONE from his mom is that he has been attending school, that he was elected class president and that he was now in the 9th grade - skipping a grade even after the grades and truancies? http://www.maryferre...61&relPageId=26 (this was obviously MO doing what she could to keep HARVEY away from court... this was also when LEE and HARVEY's records become one person instead of two.) More fanciful nonsense. He stopped truanting as soon as his brother ceased his anti-subversive work for the Port Security Unit. Or is that a coincidence? How is it, btw, that Armstrong, with all his resources, and assistance from all those researchers, failed, even after interviewing him, to understand, detect, find out or otherwise divine what Pic was doing during the time his kid brother lived with him? But let’s ignore a real life brother of Oswald who was a real life hunter of subversives, and instead, concentrate on a figment of someone’s imagination. That’ll be much more fun because when we can say the FBI lied about any evidence we don’t like (they COULD, therefore they MUST have); when we can recruit witnesses and misconstrue school records and say things like "because the government is capable of what I’m proposing, they therefore MUST have done what I’m proposing" – then the sky is the limit! And furthermore, let’s not only ignore the brother he lived with – let’s concentrate on the OTHER brother. Why? Because his memory is fallible, so we’ll just pretend he made some slip-ups (instead of just having had a memory lapse) and let the cat out of the bag. Except no one but Armstrongites can detect these things. While on the subject, can I ask if Armstrong is among those who claim LHO looked up to Robert; that Robert was his biggest influence as a kid? Mr. JENNER - Then right below that is a picture of a young man standing in front of an iron fence, which appears to be probably at a zoo. Do you recognize that? Mr. PIC - Sir, from that picture, I could not recognize that that is Lee Harvey Oswald. Mr. JENNER - That young fellow is shown there, he doesn't look like you recall Lee looked in 1952 and 1953 when you saw him in New York City? Mr. PIC - No, sir. Mr. JENNER - Commission Exhibit No. 284 do you recognize anybody in that picture that appears to be Lee Oswald? Mr. PIC - No, sir. (this is the famous missing tooth photo where Myra DeRouse names most everyone in the photo yet does not recognize LEE as HARVEY, the boy in her class, the boy she drives home after a piano falls on him) Really? She doesn’t recognize Lee as Harvey? Now there’s a line worth remembering! Mr. JENNER - There is a young fellow in the foreground-everybody else is facing the other way. He is in a pantomime, or grimace. Do you recognize that as Lee Harvey Oswald? Mr. PIC - No, sir; looking at that picture and I have looked at it several times--that looks more like Robert than it does Lee, to my recollection. LEE Oswald moved to NOLA in January 1954. LEE Oswald moved into 1454 St Marys, Myrtle Evans' place after staying with Lillian Murret, MO's sister in JANUARY 1954 HARVEY was already in NOLA, living on Exchange St and attending BJHS See… this is one area in which I agree with Lifton. How can anyone have a serious discussion about this with you guys when you keep making definitive statements about a person no one believes actually existed, except you guys. Put yourself in my place. How can I say, 'no “Harvey” did not live there'? What that does is actually give you affirmation of the existence of this mythical critter. I’m not doing it. Not playing that game. It’s more productive to beat my head against a brick wall. I am drawn once again, to the religious analogy and arguing about the existence of god with a Southern Baptist. Again from Armstrong's book.. Louise Robertson was hired by MO while in NYC to be a MAID... she worked about 6 weeks thru the summer of 1953 when the Oswald's simply up and left BEFORE the beginning of the 1953/54 school year (Stanley ND, NOLA) That is an ASSUMPTION based on Robertson saying she worked for MO for 6 weeks through the Summer. Robertson was in error on this, just as she was with her mention of Jacobi Hospital. Jacobi didn’t open until 1955. Does that mean LHO lived in the Bronx until 1955? Of course not. She was wrong about the hospital and she was wrong about what time of year she work for MO. In the REAL world, people have fallible memories. Does Armstrong hypothesise at all about how MO could afford a house-keeper? (as a side note - MO sold her car in NYC in 1952... HOW did they get from NYC to NOLA... either pair of mother and son??) If she did, it might answer my question above. Can I get a cite for it? I could find nothing about it in her testimony. Now, one again, look at the BJHS records... Do you understand that there are 90 days or so in each semester? That 90 school days from Sept brings us to Dec 31, 1963.... (if the semester starts at the end of August there is even time for the winter break... that 90 days again from 1/13/54 is the end of May early June.... the END of the 53/54 school year? That the first line of records from 53-54 tells us the a Lee Oswald transfered from PS44 (yet has the wrong name for the school listed) moved into 809 French Street (Lillian Murret)... and kept that address since it was in the BJHS zone (my assumption). HARVEY and MO never moved in with Lillian... LEE did, and then LEE and MO moved to 1454 St Marys - the Evans' place. HARVEY and MO moved from Stanley ND to 126 Exchange from which the photos of MO are taken... again, as mentioned in my reply to DSL... Exchange is 3 miles down Canal Street from BJHS.. According to Myra, HARVEY arrives to school very early and is waiting for her... He rides his bike to and from Also according to Myra, HARVEY tells her that his mom works at a BAR after being dropped off at 126 Exchange Apt 201. According to each and every FBI witness you offered and others you didn't... not a single soul is asked about Oswald at BJHS in 53/54... not one. Why? Cause he couldn't be both in NYC and NOLA at the same time... so nobody asks. He couldn’t. He wasn’t. You continue to make a mess of understanding the Beauregard records. file:///C:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\03\clip_image001.gif alt="Attached File" v:shapes="_x0000_i1026"> 54-22 - highlighted.jpg 228.27K 0 downloads The only known FBI report of an interview of Myra DaRouse is a half-page report, dated April 2, 1964, by SA Donald C. Steinmeyer. The report stated that Myra was interviewed at 3116 Prytania, Apt 29, and not behind a locked door in her office in the basement of Beauregard. When I told Myra about the half-page report she laughed and said, "I was never interviewed in my apartment. I talked to that FBI man in my office for two hours about Oswald, with the door locked, and everything I said about Oswald was good. The things in this report are not what I told that agent." I ended my conversation with Myra by asking if I could interview her in New Orleans, and she agreed. Good thing there is nothing suspicious about any of this... Ya. That really seals the deal. That there are no original records from BJHS is NOTHING SUSPICIOUS? That there are no original records ANYWHERE for these years is again, nothing suspicious.... That the FBI specifically excludes discussions of 1953, nothing suspicious... Why would they? They knew Oswald left New York in January ’54 and had no information to the contrary. That the WC does not call ANYONE who might have known HARVEY up to 1954, not suspicious... That his own brother does not recognize HARVEY's photos but easily recognizes LEE from that time period That Robert LIES about when and where he sees his younger brother - especially the NYC visit in late fall 1952... NOT SUSPICIOUS GREG... so please, don't bother investigating or reading anything more about it.... Mr. PIC - So they moved out in about September 1952, maybe it was late September, early October, somewhere around there, so from aboutsomewhere between September of 1952 and January 1953, my brother Robert came to New York on leave, and we were all invited up to the Bronx. Mr. PIC - No, sir; he may have stayed with my mother also. I don't think so. Maybe for a night or two. We went out, my wife fixed him up with a date with one of her girl friends and we went out together a couple of times. So, we were invited up there for this Sunday dinner. So it was my mother, Lee, Robert, my wife, myself, and my son. Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; we were corresponding infrequently, I would say--not very many letters between I and Lee direct when I was in the service, especially the first part of my tour in the service. In 1952, after traveling from Camp Pendleton, Calif., to Jacksonville, Fla. I did have a 10-day leave. They were in New York City at that time. Mr. JENNER. This was then some time in 1953, I take it? Mr. OSWALD. No, sir--1952. Mr. JENNER. 1952? Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. This was---- Mr. JENNER. You mean your mother and Lee that is the period of time they were in New York City? Mr. OSWALD. That's correct. Mr. JENNER. Living there. Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. Mr. JENNER. Did you see them? Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; not at that time. I spent my leave in Fort Worth, because I did not feel I had enough time to travel to New York and down to Jacksonville, Fla. After completing metalsmith school at Millington, Tenn., I took a 10-day leave. Greg - I can't help that you don't see it. Anyone looking at the records without YOUR preconceived conclusions... see a Lee Oswald attending 179 days of school in the 53/54 year at BJHS... 89 in the FALL and 90 in the SPRING that is what the transcript says. That you think the 1/13/54 has significance is interesting in that it illustrates the combining of records... HARVEY never lived with Lillian, LEE did. LEE comes from NYC to NOLA in January 1954 (again - how did they make that trip Greg? in the middle of winter) HARVEY never lived at 809 French, LEE does. Myra does not take HARVEY to French or St Marys but 126 EXCHANGE... straight down Canal... Conveniently, the records for 126 Eschange were destroyed in 1956... http://www.maryferre...56&relPageId=84 So let's stay on task here Greg... what about the BJHS records from the FALL 1953 showing Oswald taking and getting GRADES in 2 classes while attending 89 out of 90 school days do you not understand? It is you who is lacking in understanding. All the document indicates is that Oswald commenced at the school on 13/1/54 and that this was during the school year commencing in (Aug) 1953, he attended for 89 days. Most school years run from Aug to May. If you cannot comprehend that the mention of 1953 has nothing to do with when he commenced there and merely connotes the beginning of the particular school year in which he enrolled, I can’t help you any further. The records have nothing to do with calendar years, nor semesters and do not show him taking classes in the fall of ’53. Do children normally get grades and attendance records from schools they do not attend? Do you finally understand that this document represents evidence that the two boys' histories were blended together? .... LEE lived at 809 French LEE moved into 1454 St Marys in the spring of 1954 The FBI reports of Oswald "acquaintences" that YOU linked us to from that period do not discuss 1953... EVER, and give the appearance of a boilerplate statement with simply the names changed... SOP for the FBI. I think I've done more than my share explaining this to you... the school records alone establish SUSPICION... when you add in ROBERT, JOHN, MYRA, the PHOTOS, the testimony of those who dealt with the SMALL HARVEY in NYC versus the larger LEE, MO's horrible memory (she even states she married Eckdahl 7 years after she actually did), and on and on... at the very least we have SUSPICION... SUSPICION that ONLY Armstrong and his supporters can divine, and then only via the most tortuous reading of the records as would be humanly possible. Now maybe you can explain, as I mention above, how grades and attendance are recorded for a child NOT attending the school offering these records? When you look at BJHS as the continuation of the H&L saga, the NYC and BJHS records - along with the truancies, missed court dates, and verbal descriptions of HARVEY... it actually all makes sense. Only after you add the eleven secret herbs and spices… and a dash of fairy dust… Or you can just believe the FBI - did you give Swearingen's book on the FBI a read? Would you trust ANYTHING coming out of the FBI after that ? file:///C:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\03\clip_image001.gif 54-22 - highlighted.jpg 228.27K 0 downloads You can’t trust the FBI, therefore you can legitimately and without a scintilla of evidence, accuse them of whatever suits your purposes. Edited September 20, 2012 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) My replies in RED, quotes in Blue, I've tried again to illustrate why I believe what I do... and to deal with you and your closed attitude. YOU don't believe H&L to be real. Fine. I am looking at the evidence... YOU do not believe H&L are real, PERIOD... does not matter what I offer or show or explain.... I remember a while back you had convinced me that the Oswald at Jiffy Mart MAY have been just some kid... it was a reasonable explanation that made some sense. Could you be wrong? of course. Could I... yes again. But I'm not here saying your position is impossible, I am asking that you take a fresh look at the BJHS record for 1953/54 and address what I've written over and over again, even in this post - how does a school record show 179 TOTAL DAYS of attendance if the child only started the school in January? how does a school record show grades for 2 classes IN THE FALL, that go on to become 5 classes in the SPRING, if the child was not there? -------------------------- Then let's try it again Greg... if you still believe this is not suspicious, so be it... I understand the difference between CY and School Year... You’re showing no signs of understanding the difference, David. and your repeated inferences about my memory, thought process and intelligence is once again the NEW Greg... the condescending A$$hole who no one would recognize if they read your posts from this thread ... Because you keep going off on tangents without addressing the actual document in question. Reading your replies is painful: akin to listening to the incoherent fulminations of a Southern Baptist who has no answer to evolution, so simply ignores the arguments as presented and repeats his Bible quotes, chapter and verse ad infinitum. WTF are you jabbering on about? You having a tough time with God now too? I'm terribly sorry you can't follow a few simple paragraphs with links and exhibits. You haven't even taken the time to read and study the book, look at the supporting documents and images, yet you can pronounce judgment and conclusions as if you had. One last time Greg... and maybe this time you'll answer the question instead of pulling a LNer on us. ===================== A school year has two semesters, FALL and SPRING When added together they make up a SCHOOL YEAR When a child attends classes his school record reflects how often he attended and the days absent It will also include his grades The FIRST LINE for the 1953/54 BJHS school year shows WHAT Greg? - it shows that this student took two classes, General Science and PE and got a 70 in each - a passing grade - it shows this student attended 89 days and missed 1 - it shows that in the SPRING SEMESTER this student now took a full complement of classes - it shows this student attending 90 days with 4 absences - it shows that FOR THE SCHOOL YEAR this student attended 179 days and missed 5 AT THE SAME TIME IN NYC, a 5'4" 115lb student in NYC named LEE HARVEY OSWALD attends PS44.. The Greg I've been reading over the years was NEVER like the one posting on this thread - seems to me you have other, much greater concerns going on to cause this violent and uncharacteristic posting... in any case, I will try yet again to illustrate my position - although if you read my reply to DSL you'd know what I was talking about. The David I’ve been reading is completely AWOL. He had some ability at parsing the evidence. This may give rise to a David and Dee doppelganger theory. Have you ever lived in North Dalota? How tall is your mother? I tried to read your response to Mr Lifton, but honestly couldn’t finish it. I merely noted that once again, you could not specifically address the Beauregard records, which is why I bumped the post showing what they say. Again, WTF are you jabbering on about? I’ve even highlighted the BJHS record for you and you STILL cannot grasp the concept that BJHS shows a LEE OSWALD at 809 French, taking two classes and attending 89 days in the SPRING semester…. Prove that record means something else please. ...we need to go back to 1952 for a moment... after they moved to NYC Oswald supposedly attended 2 weeks at a Lutheran school On 9/30/52 he enters PS117 and is truant 3/4 of the time (Greg - does the FBI speak to anyone from PS117 who remembers Oswald?) Why would it matter? You don’t believe FBI reports, anyway – unless they can be used to support this goofiness. You make such a big deal of who Armstrong spoke to and when, yet people like Myra, or anyone from PS117 – the FBI is not so interested.. and all you have is “you don’t believe anyway…” this is the extent of your intellectual curiosity? Let’s see, the FBI steers clear of anything OSWALD in 1953 in NOLA… the witnesses YOU offer in the FBI records also steer clear of 1953 at BJHS… but to you that’s SOP, nothing to see here, move along… whatever. As for his truancy – you’ll find it can be further pinned down to starting very shortly after he turned 13. "One teacher at PS #117, Mrs. Dorrit E. Woolf (who now resides in Boynton Beach, Florida), wrote a letter to a local newspaper in 1999 and claimed that she was Oswald's art teacher.11 Mrs. Woolf taught eight art classes per day, each lasting 42 minutes. She remembered Lee Harvey Oswald as a very intelligent young boy who was a very small, isolated individual, and was "slightly deaf." Is that what she said in the original (i.e. pre-Armstrong contact) interview, or did all those details emerge only after Armstrong came along? All I could find was a news article from 2010 in which she merely noted Oswald was one of the “quiet ones”. In any case, “small” is a relative term – and quite often the “quiet ones” will be remembered as “small” whether they are or not, because of a psychological perception that equates “quiet” with “small”. He was certainly not BIG – whatever that also may mean to any given individual. “Big” and “small” are relative – and therefore – meaningless terms. He did have a hearing problem caused by his recurring otitis media. It is one of the key indicators that this was one individual throughout the records because the otitis media follows him from NO to NY and into the school system, into the courts and into Youth House, followed by the Marines and onto the Soviet Union. But you won’t address this because you can’t without putting forward that either ( A ) the records have (yet again) been tampered with, or ( B ) they both had hearing problems caused by otitis media. In either case, you’d be venturing into the Theater of the Absurd (yet again). Look at the entire paragraph of DANCING AROUND THE SUBJECT… Like Clinton telling us he did not have Sex with that women… based on how “sex” is defined and the context, the phases of the moon and whatever other BS you threw into that paragraph to convince us the SMALL HARVEY and the LARGE LEE are the same person… even though we have direct testimony and photographs that prove otherwise… that you cannot see the difference between LEE in class and HARVEY at the Zoo (when his brother had no problem) simply shows your bias toward anything not H&L. How again is my saying the records have been changed/altered and you saying all these discrepancies are “mistakes” any different? I am sure you’ve read about the history of the FBI and/or the CIA – are you really saying it is more likely all these people are mistaken as opposed to the FBI altering records? Really? If so, it appears you are not paying attention to what has been discovered these past 50 years. NOTE: Mrs. Woolfs observation that Oswald was "slightly deaf' is corroborated by anotation in the PS #44 school file, dated May 18, 1953, which states, "Teacher will arrange for exam at PS #47 (school for the deaf) for hearing. " Good. You’ve established that the kid who was at PS # 117 also attended PS # 44 a year later. 1952 Greg…. Maybe take a second and explain how the boy started PS44 on March 23, 1953, (while remanded to YOUTH HOUSE from April 15 on - with reports/examinations made on May 1, 1953 WHILE HE IS SUPPOSEDLY AT PS44 - after being truant since leaving PS117 in January) yet he attended 109 school days which brings us to the END of August 1953. ?? (hmmm, that 109 days leaves off right about when HARVEY and mom head back to NOLA) “Young Oswald spent his days on the 4th floor of the Youth House with other boys his age. A special behavior report stated, "He is a non-participant in any activity on the floor. He has made no attempts at developing a relationship with any member of the group .... He appears content just to sit and read whatever is available. He has reacted favorable to supervision. Every evening at 8:00 pm he asks to be allowed to go to bed." On May 1, 1953 Youth House Psychiatrist Renatus Hartogs, a colleague of Dr. Kurians, examined Lee Harvey OswaMaybe you can explain how he is both at Youth House and at PS44 at the same time. If you look at my response to DSL you can pick it up from there thru the "transformation" this SMALL BOY who finally gets back into school in March 1953, becomes a 5'2" 114lbs by the time he is measured in MAY 1953. The BRONX ZOO photo is NOT the same person... a child does not GROW then SHRINK then GROW again... Who said he did shrink and grow? That’s an unwarranted assumption. How can you even tell how tall he is in the zoo photo? The “I don’t Know”, “I can’t tell” defense is pretty weak Greg… When shown to those who KNEW LEE, the boy at the Zoo was NOT KNOWN TO THEM… while at the same time picking out LEE and/or stating that the boy presented as LEE was not the Oswald they remembered. He does not go from constant Truancy, loner, quiet, kept to himself to CLASS PRESIDENT (please read my reply to DSL) Again – how do you KNOW? Suppose I was to tell you that I knew a kid with Asperger’s who was regarded as quiet, a loner, even a black sheep within his own family, who also truanted but on moving to a new school, was nominated for class captain? Can’t happen according to you. No. According to you, the only way to explain this is to postulate that it was two different boys, of different height, build, eye color and intelligence levels. Asperger’s and Mistakes again… what’s not possible Greg, is your opening up your mind to possibilities OTHER than Asperger’s and Mistakes…. I NEVER SAID it could not happen… while you on the other hand has repeated stated H&L is impossible, absurd and any other attack you can place on the theory. There is repeated evidence of two children described completely differently, behaving differently, recognized as DIFFERENT PEOPLE… yet you are holding onto your HATE OF THE IDEA OF H&L that only a disease and repeated mistakes can explain the record. Again Greg… it is YOU who are locked in without even reading it… and YOU who are trying to look at a mountain of evidence one independent pebble at a time. file:///C:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\03\clip_image001.gifLee and Harvey - 1953.jpg195.9K 0 downloads in June 1953 this boy was mentally unstable, lived in a fantasy world, etc... and need psychiatric help - BADLY according to NY State. Hartogs diagnosed a "personality pattern disturbance with schizoid features and passive - aggressive tendencies." It was the nearest thing to a correct diagnosis he could make because the option of diagnosing Asperger’s was simply not open to him in the US in the 1950s. Dr Asperger himself, referred to the syndrome as a personality disorder, and even now, it can be misdiagnosed as a personality or schizoid disorder: http://www.mastersonkongresi.com/en/masterson-days/5masterson/presentation-papers/65-differential-diagnosis-schizoid-disorder-vs-aspergers-syndrome.html Could HARVEY have had Asperger’s? sure What does that have to do with the first line of the BJHS 1953 school record showing Oswald attending 89 out of 90 days in the FALL? On 9/8/53 his PO report states the Salvation Army wouldn't even try to deal with the boy - that he is "severely disturbed" Which is a crock. You know, I know and everyone here knows that the Salvation Army deals daily with far more “disturbed” individuals than Oswald was – and always has done. I think that the Salvation Army over-reacted to the word “schizoid” and took it to mean he was a danger to himself and others – a common misconception now, let alone then. If he actually had been a danger, then their suggestion that he needed “direct psychiatric treatment” would have been a correct one. My point here was that as late as 9/8/53 HARVEY was still being dealt with… HARVEY was having these problems. LEE, beginning in March 1953, is who the PS44 records are referring to…. HARVEY had moved on. That you are willing to accept this AMAZING TRANSFORMATION from Truant problem to a cooperative, contributing, flag saluting LEE as a mental condition that what, simply went away, is your right… I simply do not agree with your conclusion. On 9/24/53 the report VIA PHONE from his mom is that he has been attending school, that he was elected class president and that he was now in the 9th grade - skipping a grade even after the grades and truancies? http://www.maryferre...61&relPageId=26 (this was obviously MO doing what she could to keep HARVEY away from court... this was also when LEE and HARVEY's records become one person instead of two.) More fanciful nonsense. He stopped truanting as soon as his brother ceased his anti-subversive work for the Port Security Unit. Or is that a coincidence? How is it, btw, that Armstrong, with all his resources, and assistance from all those researchers, failed, even after interviewing him, to understand, detect, find out or otherwise divine what Pic was doing during the time his kid brother lived with him? But let’s ignore a real life brother of Oswald who was a real life hunter of subversives, and instead, concentrate on a figment of someone’s imagination. That’ll be much more fun because when we can say the FBI lied about any evidence we don’t like (they COULD, therefore they MUST have); when we can recruit witnesses and misconstrue school records and say things like "because the government is capable of what I’m proposing, they therefore MUST have done what I’m proposing" – then the sky is the limit! And furthermore, let’s not only ignore the brother he lived with – let’s concentrate on the OTHER brother. Why? Because his memory is fallible, so we’ll just pretend he made some slip-ups (instead of just having had a memory lapse) and let the cat out of the bag. Except no one but Armstrongites can detect these things. While on the subject, can I ask if Armstrong is among those who claim LHO looked up to Robert; that Robert was his biggest influence as a kid? IDK Greg, why not read the book or ask him yourself? I do know that John felt that it was ROBERT in some of the photos attributed to Lee. And that Robert lied about his visit to NYC in 1952… Mr. JENNER - Then right below that is a picture of a young man standing in front of an iron fence, which appears to be probably at a zoo. Do you recognize that? Mr. PIC - Sir, from that picture, I could not recognize that that is Lee Harvey Oswald. Mr. JENNER - That young fellow is shown there, he doesn't look like you recall Lee looked in 1952 and 1953 when you saw him in New York City? Mr. PIC - No, sir. Mr. JENNER - Commission Exhibit No. 284 do you recognize anybody in that picture that appears to be Lee Oswald? Mr. PIC - No, sir. (this is the famous missing tooth photo where Myra DeRouse names most everyone in the photo yet does not recognize LEE as HARVEY, the boy in her class, the boy she drives home after a piano falls on him) Really? She doesn’t recognize Lee as Harvey? Now there’s a line worth remembering! Why must you be such a yahoo Greg… The line worth remembering is YOU stating that Oswald was flown back from Taiwan to treat his STD when you link to a page where the DoD tells us he never went… and the Unit Diaries are all MISTAKEN… “mistaken” – I really need to remember that one… they were all just “mistakes”… perfect. Mr. JENNER - There is a young fellow in the foreground-everybody else is facing the other way. He is in a pantomime, or grimace. Do you recognize that as Lee Harvey Oswald? Mr. PIC - No, sir; looking at that picture and I have looked at it several times--that looks more like Robert than it does Lee, to my recollection. LEE Oswald moved to NOLA in January 1954. LEE Oswald moved into 1454 St Marys, Myrtle Evans' place after staying with Lillian Murret, MO's sister in JANUARY 1954 HARVEY was already in NOLA, living on Exchange St and attending BJHS See… this is one area in which I agree with Lifton. How can anyone have a serious discussion about this with you guys when you keep making definitive statements about a person no one believes actually existed, except you guys. Put yourself in my place. How can I say, 'no “Harvey” did not live there'? What that does is actually give you affirmation of the existence of this mythical critter. I’m not doing it. Not playing that game. It’s more productive to beat my head against a brick wall. I am drawn once again, to the religious analogy and arguing about the existence of god with a Southern Baptist. I am presenting the conclusion of the analysis Greg. YOU want to place semantic games… we can talk about the THEORY of H&L without you having to admit H&L are real, if that’s you’re big worry. We talk about LEE and HARVEY to differentiate who we are tracking and why…. DON’T play the game Greg… I give a sh!t, but do better than ASPERGER’S and MISTAKES… that’s LNer SOP. The RECORDS speak for themselves… in Jan 1954 LEE and MO go to live with Lillian Murret (you supposed she would know her own sister?) and then on to Myrtle Evans’ apartment. In 1953/54 we have evidence that HARVEY lived at 126 Exchange… Why not take a second and show how these two things are NOT happening simultaneously… (Note: in both Lillian and Myrtle’s testimony the year “1953” does not come up at all… 1954 is the first they are asked about, the year JENNER insisted on staying with… Jenner also questioned Robert, John Pic, Again from Armstrong's book.. Louise Robertson was hired by MO while in NYC to be a MAID... she worked about 6 weeks thru the summer of 1953 when the Oswald's simply up and left BEFORE the beginning of the 1953/54 school year (Stanley ND, NOLA) That is an ASSUMPTION based on Robertson saying she worked for MO for 6 weeks through the Summer. Robertson was in error on this, just as she was with her mention of Jacobi Hospital. Jacobi didn’t open until 1955. Does that mean LHO lived in the Bronx until 1955? Of course not. She was wrong about the hospital and she was wrong about what time of year she work for MO. In the REAL world, people have fallible memories. Does Armstrong hypothesise at all about how MO could afford a house-keeper? Read the flipping book yourself Greg…. That you continue to argue DETAILS when you don’t even bother looking at the book is actually very surprising to me. SHE WAS MISTAKEN – is once again your only argument… pretty weak Greg. And believe it or not, people also have GOOD MEMORIES and CAN OFFER DETAILS yet only if it suits YOUR cause… and not the H&L one… Hmmm selective evidence – sounds like the WCR. (as a side note - MO sold her car in NYC in 1952... HOW did they get from NYC to NOLA... either pair of mother and son??) If she did, it might answer my question above. Can I get a cite for it? I could find nothing about it in her testimony. It’s just one of those mysteries Greg… Maybe try Lillian’s testimony. Mr. JENNER - All right. Now, this boy was about 14 years of age at that time; is that right, after they returned from New York and stayed at your place? Mrs. MURRET - Yes; and then the next I heard was when he came here, and he didn't want to go to school because he thought he already knew all that they had to teach him, so she must have allowed him to go to work for Tujague's, because he had a job as a runner, going from building to building, delivering messages and things like that. Mr. JENNER - That was in 1955, would that be about right? No, that would NOT be right… in October 1953 Oswald turns 14… Now, one again, look at the BJHS records... Do you understand that there are 90 days or so in each semester? That 90 school days from Sept brings us to Dec 31, 1963.... (if the semester starts at the end of August there is even time for the winter break... that 90 days again from 1/13/54 is the end of May early June.... the END of the 53/54 school year? That the first line of records from 53-54 tells us the a Lee Oswald transfered from PS44 (yet has the wrong name for the school listed) moved into 809 French Street (Lillian Murret)... and kept that address since it was in the BJHS zone (my assumption). HARVEY and MO never moved in with Lillian... LEE did, and then LEE and MO moved to 1454 St Marys - the Evans' place. HARVEY and MO moved from Stanley ND to 126 Exchange from which the photos of MO are taken... again, as mentioned in my reply to DSL... Exchange is 3 miles down Canal Street from BJHS.. According to Myra, HARVEY arrives to school very early and is waiting for her... He rides his bike to and from Also according to Myra, HARVEY tells her that his mom works at a BAR after being dropped off at 126 Exchange Apt 201. According to each and every FBI witness you offered and others you didn't... not a single soul is asked about Oswald at BJHS in 53/54... not one. Why? Cause he couldn't be both in NYC and NOLA at the same time... so nobody asks. He couldn’t. He wasn’t. You continue to make a mess of understanding the Beauregard records. That’s quite the scathing rebuttal Greg… not once do you address the FACT that the 1953 FALL SEMESTER records show a Lee Oswald taking 2 classes and attending 89/90 days. Why do you continue to AVOID that one line, the one line that establishes SOMEONE attended BJHS and rec’d a 70 in both classes before starting the SPRING SEMESTER? file:///C:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\03\clip_image001.gif alt="Attached File" v:shapes="_x0000_i1026">54-22 - highlighted.jpg228.27K 0 downloads The only known FBI report of an interview of Myra DaRouse is a half-page report, dated April 2, 1964, by SA Donald C. Steinmeyer. The report stated that Myra was interviewed at 3116 Prytania, Apt 29, and not behind a locked door in her office in the basement of Beauregard. When I told Myra about the half-page report she laughed and said, "I was never interviewed in my apartment. I talked to that FBI man in my office for two hours about Oswald, with the door locked, and everything I said about Oswald was good. The things in this report are not what I told that agent." I ended my conversation with Myra by asking if I could interview her in New Orleans, and she agreed. Good thing there is nothing suspicious about any of this... Ya. That really seals the deal. Once again Greg… excellent, insightful response. Did or did not Carolyn Arnold state that what was written as her statement WAS NOT… and how many other FBI interviews in the final product do not match what was originally said? How many pages of testimony were crossed out and re-written ala Cadigan? That there are no original records from BJHS is NOTHING SUSPICIOUS? That there are no original records ANYWHERE for these years is again, nothing suspicious.... That the FBI specifically excludes discussions of 1953, nothing suspicious... Why would they? They knew Oswald left New York in January ’54 and had no information to the contrary. Unbelievably Naïve Greg…. They knew he HAD to leave in Jan 1954. Any ideas WHY they needed to leave so quickly in the middle of the year? Or how he can be at both Youth House and PS44 at the same time in the Spring of 1953? Or how he attends 109 days ending on Aug 31, 1953? They had no contrary info cause they chose not to concern themselves with FALL 1953… the BJHS showing the FALL 1953 attendance SLIPPED THRU… even the FBI misses some things… That the WC does not call ANYONE who might have known HARVEY up to 1954, not suspicious... That his own brother does not recognize HARVEY's photos but easily recognizes LEE from that time period That Robert LIES about when and where he sees his younger brother - especially the NYC visit in late fall 1952... NOT SUSPICIOUS GREG... so please, don't bother investigating or reading anything more about it.... Mr. PIC - So they moved out in about September 1952, maybe it was late September, early October, somewhere around there, so from aboutsomewhere between September of 1952 and January 1953, my brother Robert came to New York on leave, and we were all invited up to the Bronx. Mr. PIC - No, sir; he may have stayed with my mother also. I don't think so. Maybe for a night or two. We went out, my wife fixed him up with a date with one of her girl friends and we went out together a couple of times. So, we were invited up there for this Sunday dinner. So it was my mother, Lee, Robert, my wife, myself, and my son. Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; we were corresponding infrequently, I would say--not very many letters between I and Lee direct when I was in the service, especially the first part of my tour in the service. In 1952, after traveling from Camp Pendleton, Calif., to Jacksonville, Fla. I did have a 10-day leave. They were in New York City at that time. Mr. JENNER. This was then some time in 1953, I take it? Mr. OSWALD. No, sir--1952. Mr. JENNER. 1952? Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. This was---- Mr. JENNER. You mean your mother and Lee that is the period of time they were in New York City? Mr. OSWALD. That's correct. Mr. JENNER. Living there. Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. Mr. JENNER. Did you see them? Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; not at that time. I spent my leave in Fort Worth, because I did not feel I had enough time to travel to New York and down to Jacksonville, Fla. After completing metalsmith school at Millington, Tenn., I took a 10-day leave. Greg - I can't help that you don't see it. Anyone looking at the records without YOUR preconceived conclusions... see a Lee Oswald attending 179 days of school in the 53/54 year at BJHS... 89 in the FALL and 90 in the SPRING that is what the transcript says. That you think the 1/13/54 has significance is interesting in that it illustrates the combining of records... HARVEY never lived with Lillian, LEE did. LEE comes from NYC to NOLA in January 1954 (again - how did they make that trip Greg? in the middle of winter) HARVEY never lived at 809 French, LEE does. Myra does not take HARVEY to French or St Marys but 126 EXCHANGE... straight down Canal... Conveniently, the records for 126 Eschange were destroyed in 1956... http://www.maryferre...56&relPageId=84 So let's stay on task here Greg... what about the BJHS records from the FALL 1953 showing Oswald taking and getting GRADES in 2 classes while attending 89 out of 90 school days do you not understand? It is you who is lacking in understanding. All the document indicates is that Oswald commenced at the school on 13/1/54 and that this was during the school year commencing in (Aug) 1953, he attended for 89 days. Most school years run from Aug to May. If you cannot comprehend that the mention of 1953 has nothing to do with when he commenced there and merely connotes the beginning of the particular school year in which he enrolled, I can’t help you any further. The records have nothing to do with calendar years, nor semesters and do not show him taking classes in the fall of ’53. Do children normally get grades and attendance records from schools they do not attend? Do you finally understand that this document represents evidence that the two boys' histories were blended together? .... LEE lived at 809 French LEE moved into 1454 St Marys in the spring of 1954 The FBI reports of Oswald "acquaintences" that YOU linked us to from that period do not discuss 1953... EVER, and give the appearance of a boilerplate statement with simply the names changed... SOP for the FBI. I think I've done more than my share explaining this to you... the school records alone establish SUSPICION... when you add in ROBERT, JOHN, MYRA, the PHOTOS, the testimony of those who dealt with the SMALL HARVEY in NYC versus the larger LEE, MO's horrible memory (she even states she married Eckdahl 7 years after she actually did), and on and on... at the very least we have SUSPICION... SUSPICION that ONLY Armstrong and his supporters can divine, and then only via the most tortuous reading of the records as would be humanly possible. Why do you not address the #$@^% records Greg? You have yet to explain what the first 1953 Semester grades and attendance is in reference to…. How does Oswald attend 89/90 days IF HE WAS NOT THERE? And please stop calling up Armstrong and your religious analogies, nobody cares. You offer no explanation for the records, no explanation beyond a MISTAKE for the Unit Diaries and DoD letter, and you call the most simply reading of the record “tortureous” when any moron can understand that there are TWO SEMESTERS, each with grades and attendance, that both PS44 and BJHS show records for the FALL SEMESTER 1953 (and that PS44 records have this boy finishing the SPRING 1953 semester 15 days before the next one begins…) DEAL with the records, not your bias. Now maybe you can explain, as I mention above, how grades and attendance are recorded for a child NOT attending the school offering these records? When you look at BJHS as the continuation of the H&L saga, the NYC and BJHS records - along with the truancies, missed court dates, and verbal descriptions of HARVEY... it actually all makes sense. Only after you add the eleven secret herbs and spices… and a dash of fairy dust… Cause you CAN’T Greg. You’re playing the LNer game of laugh and redirect since you have NOTHING TO OFFER to rebutt the BJHS records. Can you even read Greg? How do we have a total of 179 ATTENDANCE days in the 7th grade at BJHS in 1953, If there was no one to record attendance for? No one to provide a grade?. Does the General Science Grade of 70 in the FALL SEMESTER and the 74 he got in the SPRING SEMESTER with a final grade of 74 (with the same thing shown for PE) not get thru to you. Have you shown this record to anyone unfamiliar with the case and simply ask, “what does this tell you about this child’s 1953/54 school year”? Cause if you did, like I did, you’d find that NO ONE assumes this child was anywhere else but in two classes for 89/90 days and rec’d two 70’s for the effort. Or you can just believe the FBI - did you give Swearingen's book on the FBI a read? Would you trust ANYTHING coming out of the FBI after that ? file:///C:\Users\Greg\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\03\clip_image001.gif54-22 - highlighted.jpg228.27K 0 downloads You can’t trust the FBI, therefore you can legitimately and without a scintilla of evidence, accuse them of whatever suits your purposes. No Greg, you can’t trust the FBI… not when in case after case the words THEY WRITE are not the words the WITNESS SAYS. When they TAKE ALL THE EVIDENCE, with Dulles trying to cover the fact, and play the charade of first ACCEPTING THE EVIDENCE after they’ve had it, unsupervised, unaccounted for, for 3-4 days. No Greg… when over and over ex-FBI tell all books remind us of the extreme CYA the FBI did to itself let alone what they hid from the US people and its representative. Tell you what Greg… you point us in the direction of a reliable, trustworthy source of FBI information related to the JFK case…. Then authenticate it for us…. Anything come to mind, right off the top of your head? That you would choose to believe the FBI over citizen witnesses and direct authenticated evidence is your problem, not mine. It boggles my mind that you are presenting yourself like this… The man who helped prove the FBI was dead wrong about Oswald on the bus which in turn changes most everything about the post-assassination timeline and suggests that Roger Craig was accurate in his recollection… that Worrell and Carr were NOT lying about the men running from the back of the TSBD, that Rowland is not lying about who he sees where, that Boone and Weitzman actually do find a Mauser and Baker/Truly L-I-E their butts off about the 2nd floor lunchroom. There is not one bit of evidence in the USG’s hands that can be relied upon as authentic and accurate… NOT ONE. Mistakes Greg? I call BS… the records reflect EXACTLY what was needed… it is much more likely the FBI missed a few “loose ends” than for everyone to be forever MISTAKEN about the innocence of the Oswalds. Edited September 20, 2012 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) how does a school record show 179 TOTAL DAYS of attendance if the child only started the school in January? how does a school record show grades for 2 classes IN THE FALL, that go on to become 5 classes in the SPRING, if the child was not there? David, you are simply misunderstanding what you’re looking at. In the 53/54 school year, the total number of school days was 179. In the 1954/55 school year, there were 168 school days. The numbers vary depending on leap years, number of weekends, and number of gazetted holidays. Oswald started there (as it clearly indicates) on Jan 13, 1954. It would seem that this commencement was at the tail end of the Fall semester – thus the limited number of classes taken. Although most schools finish the fall semester in Dec, some do in fact go through all or part of January. That seems to be the case here because if you take the 90 days for the 53/54 Spring semester and count forward from late January, you end up in late May – the usual time that a school year ends. In short, Oswald had a week or two of the Fall semester which ended in late January. Here’s one example of a Fall semester ending on Jan 27: http://www.lbschools...09_bulletin.pdf WTF are you jabbering on about? You having a tough time with God now too? No. No tough time. I make a habit of not inter-acting with mythical entities. I'm terribly sorry you can't follow a few simple paragraphs with links and exhibits. Your links don’t always seem to have much bearing on what proceeded or what follows. You haven't even taken the time to read and study the book, look at the supporting documents and images, yet you can pronounce judgment and conclusions as if you had. All good up until the “as if you had” bit. I have never tried to give anyone the impression I’ve read the book – in fact, have always freely admitted I haven’t, and ask questions about it when I need to. I don’t need to read the Book of Genesis, or Lord of the Rings to know they’re fiction, either. One last time Greg... and maybe this time you'll answer the question instead of pulling a LNer on us. ===================== A school year has two semesters, FALL and SPRING When added together they make up a SCHOOL YEAR When a child attends classes his school record reflects how often he attended and the days absent It will also include his grades Yes. And with this particular record, you work out the number of days attendance by subtracting total days absent from the total number of school days in that year. You can’t do it for the 53/54, because we don’t know the exact start and end date for the school year, so we can’t tell exactly how many day he missed simply by not having commenced yet. Where you are going wrong is in blindly following Armstrong instead of thinking for yourself. I assume Armstrong was the one who originally mistook the number of school days in the year for the number of days Oswald was present in a semester or a year or whatever the claim is? The FIRST LINE for the 1953/54 BJHS school year shows WHAT Greg? 54-22 - highlighted.jpg 228.58K 0 downloads - it shows that this student took two classes, General Science and PE and got a 70 in each - a passing grade Yeppers. - it shows this student attended 89 days and missed 1 Bzzzt! It shows there were a total of 89 school days that semester with one days absense. - it shows that in the SPRING SEMESTER this student now took a full complement of classes Yeppers. - it shows this student attending 90 days with 4 absences Bzzzt! It shows there were 90 days that semester, of which Oswald was absent 4. - it shows that FOR THE SCHOOL YEAR this student attended 179 days and missed 5 Bzzzt! It shows that the total days for that school year was 179 and Oswald was absent for 5. He was also not present for an unknown number of days due to having enrolled after the commencement of the school year, the exact date of which is unknown. AT THE SAME TIME IN NYC, a 5'4" 115lb student in NYC named LEE HARVEY OSWALD attends PS44.. Bzzzz! It was the one and only... Again, WTF are you jabbering on about? I’ve even highlighted the BJHS record for you and you STILL cannot grasp the concept that BJHS shows a LEE OSWALD at 809 French, taking two classes and attending 89 days in the SPRING semester…. Because I try not to make a habit of accepting obvious miss-readings of documents. Prove that record means something else please. I have. You make such a big deal of who Armstrong spoke to and when, yet people like Myra, or anyone from PS117 – the FBI is not so interested.. and all you have is “you don’t believe anyway…” this is the extent of your intellectual curiosity? Let’s see, the FBI steers clear of anything OSWALD in 1953 in NOLA… the witnesses YOU offer in the FBI records also steer clear of 1953 at BJHS… but to you that’s SOP, nothing to see here, move along… whatever. Please indicate with EVIDENCE that the FBI had any reason to ask anyobdy about Oswald being in NO in 1953. Look at the entire paragraph of DANCING AROUND THE SUBJECT… Like Clinton telling us he did not have Sex with that women… based on how “sex” is defined and the context, the phases of the moon and whatever other BS you threw into that paragraph to convince us the SMALL HARVEY and the LARGE LEE are the same person… even though we have direct testimony and photographs that prove otherwise… that you cannot see the difference between LEE in class and HARVEY at the Zoo (when his brother had no problem) simply shows your bias toward anything not H&L. You have direct testimony that there was indeed a “Harvey”? In your dreams. Armstrong’s videos do not constitute “testimony”. Someone not recognising someone in a photo is not the same as denying who is said to be in the photo. But you are right about one thing. I do have a bias against Armstrong’s theory. For the same reason I have a bias against any theory which relies upon misreading of documents, friends of friends recruited as witnesses, and a whole great big long list of “sins” in analysis. How again is my saying the records have been changed/altered and you saying all these discrepancies are “mistakes” any different? I am sure you’ve read about the history of the FBI and/or the CIA – are you really saying it is more likely all these people are mistaken as opposed to the FBI altering records? Really? If so, it appears you are not paying attention to what has been discovered these past 50 years. There you go again. The FBI “could” alter records so they must have. But you have zero evidence for it. And you are way overstating what I consider “mistakes” in the records. You are trying to insinuate I do that with all the records. I do not. Far from it. 1952 Greg…. Maybe take a second and explain how the boy started PS44 on March 23, 1953, (while remanded to YOUTH HOUSE from April 15 on - with reports/examinations made on May 1, 1953 WHILE HE IS SUPPOSEDLY AT PS44 - after being truant since leaving PS117 in January) yet he attended 109 school days which brings us to the END of August 1953. ?? You simply have no idea how to read the records. (hmmm, that 109 days leaves off right about when HARVEY and mom head back to NOLA) Pardon? Where the hell does that come from? 109 days PLUS days absent (which includes time in YH) takes us up to the start of the new school year on Sept 19, at which time he is enrolled in the 8th grade. “Young Oswald spent his days on the 4th floor of the Youth House with other boys his age. A special behavior report stated, "He is a non-participant in any activity on the floor. He has made no attempts at developing a relationship with any member of the group .... He appears content just to sit and read whatever is available. He has reacted favorable to supervision. Every evening at 8:00 pm he asks to be allowed to go to bed." On May 1, 1953 Youth House Psychiatrist Renatus Hartogs, a colleague of Dr. Kurians, examined Lee Harvey Oswa Maybe you can explain how he is both at Youth House and at PS44 at the same time. Que??? Who says he was? The records show he had a period of being absent. The figure is impossible to read, but the 2nd digit is 5… so it was 15 or 25 or 35 etc and whichever it was, it was sufficient to cover his time in YH – and as I already said – taken together with time attended, takes him up to the start of the new school year. http://www.maryferre...65&relPageId=14 The “I don’t Know”, “I can’t tell” defense is pretty weak Greg… When shown to those who KNEW LEE, the boy at the Zoo was NOT KNOWN TO THEM… while at the same time picking out LEE and/or stating that the boy presented as LEE was not the Oswald they remembered. Pic was partially raised in an orphanage. He left home as soon as he could enlist, He next saw Lee in 1952, then not again until 1962 and no more after that. How can you possibly be surprised he didn’t recognize Lee in one lousy photo? Do you look exactly the same in every photo ever taken? Would someone who hardly ever saw you as a kid, recognise you in every single photo of you as a kid? Asperger’s and Mistakes again… what’s not possible Greg, is your opening up your mind to possibilities OTHER than Asperger’s and Mistakes…. I NEVER SAID it could not happen… while you on the other hand has repeated stated H&L is impossible, absurd and any other attack you can place on the theory. There is repeated evidence of two children described completely differently, behaving differently, recognized as DIFFERENT PEOPLE… I watched a magician saw someone in half last night. I swear it looked real. But I know it was sleight of hand. yet you are holding onto your HATE OF THE IDEA OF H&L that only a disease and repeated mistakes can explain the record. Again Greg… it is YOU who are locked in without even reading it… and YOU who are trying to look at a mountain of evidence one independent pebble at a time. Asperger’s is not a disease. And no, those things are not all I have. Could HARVEY have had Asperger’s? sure What does that have to do with the first line of the BJHS 1953 school record showing Oswald attending 89 out of 90 days in the FALL? Lee Harvey Oswald did attend from 13/1/54. There were 89 days in the fall semester… My point here was that as late as 9/8/53 HARVEY was still being dealt with… HARVEY was having these problems. LEE, beginning in March 1953, is who the PS44 records are referring to…. Really? Isn’t Lee supposed to be the dumbass in this Dynamic Duo? Just how closely have you studied those records? Have you seen the note saying how intelligent this kid is? This kid that you call “Lee” who is supposed to be a knucklehead? HARVEY had moved on. That you are willing to accept this AMAZING TRANSFORMATION from Truant problem to a cooperative, contributing, flag saluting LEE as a mental condition that what, simply went away, is your right… I simply do not agree with your conclusion. Asperger’s is not a mental condition, any more than it is a disease. It’s a SYNDROME. Who said that was my conclusion? You continue to astound with your lack of finesse here, given your past track record. Buy a clue, David. Why do you think I keep underlining the start and end of his “problems”? His truancy is bookended by two events - his 13th birthday and his brother leaving the Port Security Unit. Those two events have nothing to do with Asperger’s any more than they have to do with CIA doppelgangers. IDK Greg, why not read the book or ask him yourself? I do know that John felt that it was ROBERT in some of the photos attributed to Lee. And that Robert lied about his visit to NYC in 1952… I can tell you now, despite rarely seeing each other, Pic was who Lee looked up to and admired. The “split” in NYC was phoney. Why must you be such a yahoo Greg… The line worth remembering is YOU stating that Oswald was flown back from Taiwan to treat his STD when you link to a page where the DoD tells us he never went… and the Unit Diaries are all MISTAKEN… “mistaken” – I really need to remember that one… they were all just “mistakes”… perfect. Right. Can’t happen. The world is a mistake-free zone. But did I not also say it was possible he was flown back early? Having now checked a few books, there are several authors who give the early flight back as the correct history. Are they all idiots? I also said it was possible this was all part of some intel op or intel training. I am presenting the conclusion of the analysis Greg. YOU want to place semantic games… we can talk about the THEORY of H&L without you having to admit H&L are real, if that’s you’re big worry. We talk about LEE and HARVEY to differentiate who we are tracking and why…. DON’T play the game Greg… I give a sh!t, but do better than ASPERGER’S and MISTAKES… that’s LNer SOP. Like I said – that’s far from all I have. You’re the one doing the LN imitation by bending and contorting the evidence to within an inch of its life, and refusing to fully let go of “evidence” that has been thoroughly eviscerated ( in your case, McBride and school records particularly). The RECORDS speak for themselves… in Jan 1954 LEE and MO go to live with Lillian Murret (you supposed she would know her own sister?) and then on to Myrtle Evans’ apartment. In 1953/54 we have evidence that HARVEY lived at 126 Exchange… If the records are speaking to you, they're speaking in tongues. You have FAULTY memories of Lee living there. He and Marguerite moved there in the spring of ’55. Exchange was outside the area for Beauregard, but it was possible to go there “on a permit” in some circumstances. http://www.maryferre...33&relPageId=83 This is the form that Oswald probably had to fill out to get that permit. http://www.maryferre...7&relPageId=843 Note it is dated June 2, 1955. I believe Oswald was granted permission to attend from out of area because he was already a student there. Note also that Lee has listed reading, the outdoors and sports (mainly football) as his main interests – but according to you, it was “Harvey” who was into books. So what’s going in here? In "Harvey and Lee World" you can be into books OR sports, but not both! Read the flipping book yourself Greg…. That you continue to argue DETAILS when you don’t even bother looking at the book is actually very surprising to me. SHE WAS MISTAKEN – is once again your only argument… pretty weak Greg. And believe it or not, people also have GOOD MEMORIES and CAN OFFER DETAILS yet only if it suits YOUR cause… and not the H&L one… Hmmm selective evidence – sounds like the WCR. Okay. So you have nothing. According to you and Armstrong, because Louise Robertson said Lee was going for tests at Jacobi, it must follow that Lee was still in NYC when Jacobi opened in 1955. Your alternative is just too painful for you because to admit her memory was fallible, is to admit she was not only wrong about Jacobi but also possibly wrong about other timeframes. Have you done any study of memory? Are you aware all the studies that confirm memory of timing of events for the vast majority is terrible? The rest snipped as overly repetitive and liable to send me bonkers. Edited September 21, 2012 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Wow, this is really funny. He has not read the book but knows it is all wrong. David you are wasting your time here. You cannot argue with someone who refuses to look at the evidence. You are just banging your head against a wall. Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Wow, this is really funny. He has not read the book but knows it is all wrong. David you are wasting your time here. You cannot argue with someone who refuses to look at the evidence. You are just banging your head against a wall. Dawn It doesn't matter what evidence is in the book, Dawn. I'm debating whatever evidence is thrown at me. Most of it, regardless of where else it may be found, is in the 26 volumes. That certainly includes the school records. You are simply doing what a lawyer does; trying to extract someone from a bad situation. But this is a situation David got himself into. I mean really... looking at a school record which shows a commencement date of 13/1/54 and a total school year of 179 days for 53/54 and mistaking that figure for total days attendance and trying to use it as "proof" that Oswald had been in NO since Aug 53 is just the pits. No wonder we're not taken seriously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Wow, this is really funny. He has not read the book but knows it is all wrong. David you are wasting your time here. You cannot argue with someone who refuses to look at the evidence. You are just banging your head against a wall. Dawn Thank you Dawn... At some point, when pointing to the sky and saying it's BLUE, and Mr. B here says it's GREEN... what up? - it shows that this student took two classes, General Science and PE and got a 70 in each - a passing grade Yeppers. - it shows this student attended 89 days and missed 1 Bzzzt! It shows there were a total of 89 school days that semester with one days absense. Greg, you are simply wrong here... Maybe you just have no clue how school years work... If a child does not attend, it is impossible to be marked ABSENT.. If a child does not attend, it is impossible to be given a grade... If a child does not attend, the TOTAL # OF DAYS they go to school for that year is NOT the TOTAL number of days POSSIBLE... but the actual # of days in attendance... That you state it this ways shows you have no understanding of the records... not the rest of us. You ask for evidence why the FBI SHOULD ask about Oswald at BJHS in 1953.... because the school records indiacte a LEE OSWALD took 2 classes in the FALL of 1953 GREG. The RECORDS indicate that this child attended 89 of 90 school days in that semester... Do you see how they ADD the attendance days and Absence days to come to a total for 1953/54? There are not 5 TOTAL ABSENCE DAYS in the semester Greg, that is the number of days THIS CHILD was marked absent... You are simply wrong and cannot see it... sad. Kind of like the Unit Diary about the trip to Taiwan... The number of enlisted and officers is determined, the personnel on the ship is identified - otherwise why even bother with a Diary? The records indicate he was in Taiwan and Japan at the same time... the DoD has to make up that he didn't even go... was held back at the last moment... Yet miraculously he is on the ship BACK from Taiwan to Japan... Miraculously there are witnesses to his guard duty episode in Taiwan... People who remember seeing him in Taiwan... People the FBI didn't bother finding or speaking to.... I've had enough of you playing DVP for everyone here... You are a man who has seen a alternate version of the Zapruder film... who has helped prove the lies of the FBI over and over... yet you just can't pull yourself away from the hatred of the H&L idea long enough to be objective... YOU ARE WROING ABOUT YOUR READING OF THE RECORDS AT BJHS... as I asked before... show the record without any discussion to ANYONE... and ask them what they see for the 53/54 school year... Yes. And with this particular record, you work out the number of days attendance by subtracting total days absent from the total number of school days in that year. You can’t do it for the 53/54, because we don’t know the exact start and end date for the school year, so we can’t tell exactly how many day he missed simply by not having commenced yet. Where you are going wrong is in blindly following Armstrong instead of thinking for yourself. I assume Armstrong was the one who originally mistook the number of school days in the year for the number of days Oswald was present in a semester or a year or whatever the claim is? This is completely WRONG Greg... you work out the # of days in attendance by counting the days a student attends class... attendance was taken in the morning at every school... you work out the # of days absent by COUNTING THE DAYS A STUDENT IS MARKED ABSENT (btw - did you attend school in the US in the 60's/70's? I did) You have lost your way here Greg... you need to take a breath, take a step back and look at these records without the HATE for Armstrong and H&L that you bring to each discussion. ASK SOMEONE ELSE to read the records for you Greg... get a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion of what those records show... Or look at the NYC PS44 records and see the same thing... A student cannot attend 109 days when staring in March... A student cannot attend both Youth House and PS44 at the same time.. I wont be bothering with discussing this with you anymore... go read the book and then maybe we can talk about this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Wow, this is really funny. He has not read the book but knows it is all wrong. David you are wasting your time here. You cannot argue with someone who refuses to look at the evidence. You are just banging your head against a wall. Dawn Thank you Dawn... At some point, when pointing to the sky and saying it's BLUE, and Mr. B here says it's GREEN... what up? - it shows that this student took two classes, General Science and PE and got a 70 in each - a passing grade Yeppers. - it shows this student attended 89 days and missed 1 Bzzzt! It shows there were a total of 89 school days that semester with one days absense. Greg, you are simply wrong here... Maybe you just have no clue how school years work... If a child does not attend, it is impossible to be marked ABSENT.. If a child does not attend, it is impossible to be given a grade... If a child does not attend, the TOTAL # OF DAYS they go to school for that year is NOT the TOTAL number of days POSSIBLE... but the actual # of days in attendance... That you state it this ways shows you have no understanding of the records... not the rest of us. You ask for evidence why the FBI SHOULD ask about Oswald at BJHS in 1953.... because the school records indiacte a LEE OSWALD took 2 classes in the FALL of 1953 GREG. The RECORDS indicate that this child attended 89 of 90 school days in that semester... Do you see how they ADD the attendance days and Absence days to come to a total for 1953/54? There are not 5 TOTAL ABSENCE DAYS in the semester Greg, that is the number of days THIS CHILD was marked absent... You are simply wrong and cannot see it... sad. Kind of like the Unit Diary about the trip to Taiwan... The number of enlisted and officers is determined, the personnel on the ship is identified - otherwise why even bother with a Diary? The records indicate he was in Taiwan and Japan at the same time... the DoD has to make up that he didn't even go... was held back at the last moment... Yet miraculously he is on the ship BACK from Taiwan to Japan... Miraculously there are witnesses to his guard duty episode in Taiwan... People who remember seeing him in Taiwan... People the FBI didn't bother finding or speaking to.... I've had enough of you playing DVP for everyone here... You are a man who has seen a alternate version of the Zapruder film... who has helped prove the lies of the FBI over and over... yet you just can't pull yourself away from the hatred of the H&L idea long enough to be objective... YOU ARE WROING ABOUT YOUR READING OF THE RECORDS AT BJHS... as I asked before... show the record without any discussion to ANYONE... and ask them what they see for the 53/54 school year... Yes. And with this particular record, you work out the number of days attendance by subtracting total days absent from the total number of school days in that year. You can’t do it for the 53/54, because we don’t know the exact start and end date for the school year, so we can’t tell exactly how many day he missed simply by not having commenced yet. Where you are going wrong is in blindly following Armstrong instead of thinking for yourself. I assume Armstrong was the one who originally mistook the number of school days in the year for the number of days Oswald was present in a semester or a year or whatever the claim is? This is completely WRONG Greg... you work out the # of days in attendance by counting the days a student attends class... attendance was taken in the morning at every school... you work out the # of days absent by COUNTING THE DAYS A STUDENT IS MARKED ABSENT (btw - did you attend school in the US in the 60's/70's? I did) You have lost your way here Greg... you need to take a breath, take a step back and look at these records without the HATE for Armstrong and H&L that you bring to each discussion. ASK SOMEONE ELSE to read the records for you Greg... get a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion of what those records show... Or look at the NYC PS44 records and see the same thing... A student cannot attend 109 days when staring in March... A student cannot attend both Youth House and PS44 at the same time.. I wont be bothering with discussing this with you anymore... go read the book and then maybe we can talk about this... David, Let's start with one simple piece of data: Oswald's enrollment date - something that will be on just about all such paperwork. I say that the date is given on this paperwork as 13/1/54. But you won't have that because it renders your interpretation of the rest of the data invalid. So what happens when I ask you what that date means here? You reply "don't know/don't care". The fact is, if you blow the document up big enough, that date is next to the word "originally". Though I still can't decipher the word underneath it, the date is clearly a commencement date. That should be enough to give you reason to reconsider, but let's move on to the column you claim is an attendance column. This column is headed "Ed-Ad" which I assure you, does not stand for "attendance". It stands for "Education Administration" - or to put another way... the total number of education days in the period in question. As for his Fall grades... I assume he got those by sitting exams during the short time he is was there in that Semester. As for PS 44... what part of my explanation of those records did you not understand? Or did you just not read it? All you've done here is repeat what I've already rebutted. Your strongest argument is with the Marine SEA records because - unlike these very straight-forward school records, they could be construed as suspicious. They might be obscuring something. But that does not automatically equate to Two Oswalds. Edited September 21, 2012 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wengler Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 If Oswald in June 1953 was mentally unstable, lived in a fantasy world, etc... and need psychiatric help - BADLY according to NY State How was he able to join the Marines and get work as a radar operator? A person would need a back ground check to get tha job. I have a friend that was in the Air Force from 79-84 he was bases in England and part of his his job was to launch the bombers to eastern Europe and the FBI did a check on him. So with all the mental trouble Oswald supposedly had he got on a secret Air Base and got a job as a Radar operator?? That sounds very fishily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Laverick Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 If I have read this right the 'Harvey and Lee' story is a long-term espionage ploy by the American intelligence in order, at some future date, to insert a Russian speaking 'entity' into the USSR and pass him off as the 'historical Lee Harvey Oswald'. I am presuming that the CIA's interest in this project is solely confined to a 'defection' and not, way back in 1953, looking at a future patsy option for an assassination ten years later! The mind-boggling logistics involved and the huge amount of investment needed for such subterfuge must have been immense. Just the time frame alone implies a longstanding on-going duplicity, to be guarded at all costs, so as to completely fool the KGB when the time eventually came for the 'defection' to take place. The phrase "a sledgehammer to crack a nut" comes to mind. Because after all that careful meticulous planning, within hours of this delicate operation (a decade in the making) actually being put into place, the KGB says; "Er, thanks Mr Oswald, but no thanks!" and he is asked to leave the country immediately. Not a good start. They didn't tell Robert Webster to pack his bags did they? Or several others who defected, falsely or otherwise: if they thought that the ID switch would completely wrong-foot the KGB then they seriously miscalculated. All that effort. All that work. All that plotting. Gone. In a puff of smoke. Oswald only managed to stay in the USSR through the desperate expedient of attempting to slash his wrists, calculating that the KGB would take his defection more seriously. Talk about frantic; this plan seems to be going from bad to worse. He was allowed to stay because they feared his unpredictable actions may cause even further complications with the USA should he succeed the next time. Is that what all that planning was meant to achieve? This complex orchestral masterpiece now had 1st violin having to smash up his instrument, a la Pete Townsend, just to keep the fleeing audience’s attention. The KGB obviously didn’t like the melody; they’d heard it played so many times before, admittedly with a lot more finesse. But they now had the upper hand. They now knew for almost certain, and within days, that they were dealing with an American intelligence asset who was falsely defecting. It wouldn’t hurt to see what he’s up to would it? So they gave him a new violin, a posh Stradivarius (but bugged), and wondered “what other melodies does he know?” What did the whole Harvey/Lee operation actually achieve? After probably one of the most mind-bogglingly intricate set ups for a defection conceivable, what did it all achieve? It resulted in the KGB inserting one of their own into the USA, and further, one who was married to an American intelligence operative to boot. Great plan! In answer to the inevitable question I feel certain will be hurled my way: “Have you read the book?” the answer is no but I have read quite a lot of the material available online and on forums such as this. I don’t need to read the bible to know whether I am an atheist or not. There is enough material, not least of which by adherents and promoters of the bible, for me to be able to form a conclusion regarding the veracity of its message, without having to read the book. Likewise with the Harvey/Lee sideshow, it is just used as an irritating get out clause/mantra whenever the questions get tough. If I were to write a book called “The Earth is Flat” and then posted an article online backing up my reasoning, it would be grossly unfair of me when challenged on that article to simply refer them to the book. That would be cowardly; and evasive. And proof that it can't stand up to criticism. Because if the article is based on a seriously flawed premise then so is the book!! I am presuming that the most impressive facts to back up the Harvey/Lee story are available online and not just guarded exclusively for use in the hard copy book. When adherents of Armstrong constantly heckle critics to read the book, are we going to find further damning evidence that isn’t available online? Are you all sworn to secrecy? Is there more evidence that holders of the book are not allowed to divulge? I’m presuming that those who promote this theory are giving it their best shot and citing what they see as the best conclusive evidence from that book. But if you haven’t sold me the premise why should I buy the book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 (edited) If Oswald in June 1953 was mentally unstable, lived in a fantasy world, etc... and need psychiatric help - BADLY according to NY State How was he able to join the Marines and get work as a radar operator? A person would need a back ground check to get tha job. I have a friend that was in the Air Force from 79-84 he was bases in England and part of his his job was to launch the bombers to eastern Europe and the FBI did a check on him. So with all the mental trouble Oswald supposedly had he got on a secret Air Base and got a job as a Radar operator?? That sounds very fishily Mark, He wasn't mentally unstable. That diagnosis was the result of observed behaviors, testing, and family history as provided by Lee & Marguerite. To look at those individually: He was observed not to interact with the other kids, in any way, shape or form, to withdraw from or not participate in group activities, but instead, read in his room, and to request to be able to go to be bed at 8:00 pm every night. There are at least three possibilities alone or jointly, which might explain his actions as outlined. 1. He was scared of the other kids who included violent offenders (murder, rape, gang activity etc). Oswald was a "truant". It's akin to Arlo Guthrie's litterbug being put on the Group "W" bench with father rapers and mother stabbers. 2. Other kids were warned to stay away from him and he was allowed to opt out of activities for private study of certain material. 3. Asperger's or similar syndrome. ------------------------------------------ Testing did show up certain things consistent with the diagnosis made. But as I have repeatedly pointed out -- the diagnosis is one sometimes made in error for what is actually Asperger's Syndrome. Compounding the similar features is the fact that Asperger's was not recognized in the US in the 1950s, so if, as I believe, he had it, then a diagnosis including schizoid features was almost inevitable. ------------------------------------------- The family history provided by mother and son left out certain facts. Most people (even on the CT side) have put this down to Marguerite and Lee being inveterate liars, which tends to indicate the lies were pretty random. The reason they do this is because they cannot fathom any reason for the omissions. But there may well have been very good reasons for them... Anyhow... the long and the short of it is that he was NOT mentally unstable -- nor badly in need of psychiatric care. That second part was the Salvation Army verdict - probably based on an over-reaction to seeing the word "schizoid". In fact, the Salvation Army had been recommended by the State (YH) as the best option. The State (YH) sent those badly in need of psychiatric care directly to Bellevue. (see : http://reopenkennedy...t49-youth-house Edited September 22, 2012 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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