Who did Lyndon Johnson visit?

[Anthony DeFiore]

My guess: Richard Helms or James Angleton. Picked him up at Foggy Bottom, drove around discussing the current matter at hand, then dropped him off and headed home.

Or perhaps, LBJ saw Sen Richard Russell to discuss the Baker Affair revelations for that day. To snuff everything out by Monday.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Anthony DeFiore

[John Dolva]

Just for interest. I wonder if anyone knows where John McCormack was at that time? I suppose the notion I had in suggesting him was because of the line of succession is pretty obvious. I know he went to the white house with LBJ and Lady the next day. What exactly would you call him in relation to LBJ. ? Acting Vice President? What was his relations with JFK? He was from Boston and a Catholic. I imagine that LBJ being no stranger to house leadership would recognise JM's importance in stabilising his Presidency.

I understand the line of succession changed in 1967.

LBJ must have been pretty jittery, especially after the night encounter with an SS guy. I wonder what exactly happened at that moment. Are there any witnesses apart from LBJ and the SS guy?

[Douglas Caddy]

Just for interest. I wonder if anyone knows where John McCormack was at that time? I suppose the notion I had in suggesting him was because of the line of succession is pretty obvious. I know he went to the white house with LBJ and Lady the next day. What exactly would you call him in relation to LBJ. ? Acting Vice President? What was his relations with JFK? He was from Boston and a Catholic. I imagine that LBJ being no stranger to house leadership would recognise JM's importance in stabilising his Presidency.

I understand the line of succession changed in 1967.

LBJ must have been pretty jittery, especially after the night encounter with an SS guy. I wonder what exactly happened at that moment. Are there any witnesses apart from LBJ and the SS guy?

I do not know where John McCormack was in 1963. However, when I was administering grants from the Moody Foundation of Galveston, Texas in the mid-1980's, I always stayed at the Hotel Washington when I visited the capital. This was because the Moodys owned the hotel situated a block from the White House. Shearn Moody, who sponsored the grants that I administered, always stayed at the Hotel Washington. On one occasion when we were in Washington on business he told me that McCormack and his wife had lived for years in a small room in the rear portion of the hotel. He also told me that Lyndon Johnson refused to ever step inside the Hotel Washington, which was famous for its cafe on its roof from which one could see most of Washington. Shearn never told me why Johnson refused to visit the hotel but my guess is that he and the Moodys did not have a close relationship or else LBJ was afraid eavesdropping devices might pick up his conversation when he was inside. The rooms near the top of the hotel looked out over the roof of the Treasury Department next door and when I stayed in one of those rooms I could see armed sharpshooters stationed on the roof of the White House, which was located just the other side of the Treasury Department. I assumed the armed sharpshoots were Secret Service agents or military personnel situated on the White House roof for security of the premises.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

The notes of Johnson's secretary--not an entirely reliable source--claim he met with his assistants at the time some seem to think he was missing.

http://www.lbjlib.ut...ry/112263-3.htm

A side note here: correct - just because it is listed on LBJ's schedule does not mean its "right." For example pull up LBJ's presidential schedule for June 8, 1967, the day of the attack on the USS Liberty. The USS Liberty was attacked by Israel (at LBJ's command, sorry to say) at 6:58 AM Eastern time. The Liberty got off an emergency, very high alert "flash bulletin" within 15 minutes - say by 7:15AM Eastern. Surely this reached Washington, DC by 7:30AM Eastern. And LBJ by 7:35 AM at the very latest. When American ships are attacked, it is an act of war, and the US president is contacted IMMEDIATELY and this was true 46 years ago.

Yet, look at LBJ's schedule. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. No phone calls from McNamara, no phone calls from his National Security Advisor Dean Rusk. Apparently LBJ was just sitting in bed, chilling out, eating breakfast while an American ship (which got an emergency flash bulletin out) was being shot to hell and back.

LBJ's official schedule - breakfast in bed at 7:45 AM. No phone calls until Mansfield at 8:08 AM, the McNamara at 8:13 AM. In "reality world" LBJ should have been immediately notified of the attack on the USS Liberty at no later than 7:35AM (perhaps 10 minutes sooner) and it would have been a big deal because the prime suspects would have been the Egyptians or the Russians (the Egyptians are who LBJ/Israel wanted to pin it on).

Link to LBJ daily diary: http://www.lbjlibrar...aily-diary.html

Bottom line - you simply can't trust those diaries - if there is something critical or negative, it has probably been erased.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Robert Morrow

[William Kelly]

The notes of Johnson's secretary--not an entirely reliable source--claim he met with his assistants at the time some seem to think he was missing.

http://www.lbjlib.ut...ry/112263-3.htm

Thanks for that Pat,

I think secretaries are pretty reliable sources, although Robert is correct in that schedules are not always adhered to, but in this case they discarded the schedule when the assassination occurred and got down the most significant people LBJ met and talked to, as he would expect them to. He would also leave his secretaries behind when he left, and knew that what he did next, who he called (possibly from the car) or who he met would not be on the official record, as it isn't.

I would like to check this with a the actual phone records of EOB 274, where according to Valente, LBJ was with Cliff Carter and another aide, behind a closed door, with Carter calling Texas officials, as a number of Texas officials have reported. These calls are not listed on the White House phone records, and are not listed here.

This record indicates LBJ left the EOB at 9:25 PM and meets with aides at 9 PM at the Elms, which we know is not possible.

I'd like to know if anyone can decipher the four digits in the final notation before EOB?

To me it looks like 8212 or 8272 - which would mean what?

I have reposted LBJ's official schedule and log here:

JFKCountercoup2: LBJ 11/22/63

6:45 McGeorge Bundy in EOB

6:50 Taxewell Shepard

6:55 Secretary Harriman and Sen. Fulbright

7:05 f President Truman

7:10 t General Eisenhower

7:29 t sergeant Shriver

7:35 Mac Kilduff

7:36 Eating dinner in 274 EOB

7:40 Congressional delegation : McCormick, Hale Boggs, Halleck, Albert, Mansfield, Dirksen, Humphrey, Smathers, Kuchel, Morton

8:06 Mac Kilduff, George Reedy, Bill Moyers

8:25 t Ted Sorenson

8:31 f Speaker McCormack

8:45 Kilduff

9:00 f Sen. Russell

9:06 t Justice Goldberg

9:10 t Dick McGuire

9:25 Depart 8212 EOB

Edited February 25, 2013 by William Kelly