Gerry Simone Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 20 hours ago, Robin Unger said: IMO Prayer man is standing on the top step, in the corner close to the glass window. I don't see any indication that he is standing on the edge of the top step. I don't see any indication that he has one foot on the next step down. Just to clarify Robin (or anyone else) - BWF is standing on the landing or top of the stairs, correct? I can almost count the risers for each step. Is there a way to know where PM is by counting the risers and knowing how many there were in total back then? I would guess that PM is on the step below the landing or top of the stairway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Simone Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Alistair Briggs said: Cheers Ray, those measurements fit in quite nicely with what you said way back in April 2016 on the Prayer Person - Prayer Man thread - total of 72 inches and change, (6ft and some change)... it's just when you mentioned a few comments earlier on this thread that it was 7ft 6 and change it threw me off a bit. lol Cheers for the clarification. Excellent checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Simone Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 33 minutes ago, Andrej Stancak said: The current depth of the doorway does not match the one of the 1963 doorway because the door was changed and pushed back into the building during the major refurbishment works. This has extended the depth of the top platform, and the current measurement of the depth does not apply to historic photographs. Excellent. I'm planning on returning this November and might bring a tape measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) On 4/15/2017 at 0:56 PM, Andrej Stancak said: Thanks, Mr. Tommy, for both correcting my clumsy English and sharing with us your insights. However: leaning forwards is not what mammals, including humans, would do in response to a startling event, such as a gun shot. The startle reaction is a primitive neural response aimed to stabilise the head upon an impact from the front. It is, therefore, associated with contractions of back and neck muscles which prevents an animal or human to fall back. You may have been thinking of an orienting response, a primitive neural response to novel stimuli, which aims to amplify the sensory input. Turning head towards the source of a novel stimulus, dilation of pupils, adjusting earlobes (e.g., in cats), and tuning the tension of tiny muscles in the ear which increase the sensitivity to sounds are all components of orienting response. Dear Andrej Hogwash. For all we know Lovelady reacted exactly the way you say a person reacts to something "startling" but it wasn't caught on film by the rapidly- "panning" Weigman. I agree with Robin Unger on this -- Lovelady does not step down, he leans forward. Wouldn't Lovelady's alleged stepping down towards the loud sound contradict your otherwise brilliant analysis and description of what his "startle reaction" was? Or are you claiming that the first shot hadn't even rung out yet when he "stepped down"? -- Tommy Edited April 17, 2017 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 45 minutes ago, Gerry Simone said: Just to clarify Robin (or anyone else) - BWF is standing on the landing or top of the stairs, correct? I can almost count the risers for each step. Is there a way to know where PM is by counting the risers and knowing how many there were in total back then? I would guess that PM is on the step below the landing or top of the stairway. A while ago I started looking for 'contemporary' images of the TSBD doorway and I came one that showed the steps very clearly but it had been taken from the opposite side... simply by flipping the image around the doorway and steps lined up relatively well with the view of the Darnell frame and as such can act as a decent (imo) visual 'guide'... Regards Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 17 hours ago, Alistair Briggs said: Robin, I was wondering about the width of the landing there... is the width known for sure? It doesn't appear to be very big from that image... Regards Alistair From memory i think the depth of the top landing was approx 1-metre from the end of the hand rail to the glass door. that will need to be verified. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Robin Unger said: From memory i think the depth of the top landing was approx 1-metre from the end of the hand rail to the glass door. that will need to be verified. ? Cheers Robin. I came across the following from this page... with the text " They discovered that the entrance had been pushed in from approximately 3 feet to slightly over 9 feet, per this image. " If the red line on that image was indeed where the original entrance was, and it was indeed a landing of 3ft, then by implication the width of the doorway from wall to wall must be no more than 9ft across... ... not the biggest of areas then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Nice Image. Looking at the William Allen photos, the top landing looks just deep enough for two cops to be standing on it , one just behind the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Toni Frantini did some good work on the TSBD entrance and Prayer mans location, i am trying to find his old thread. there was some very good images in that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Robin Unger said: Nice Image. Looking at the William Allen photos, the top landing looks just deep enough for two cops to be standing on it , one just behind the other. In the lower of those two images, the policeman with the rounded helmet on has to, I feel, be standing one step down. The door I believe pretty much, when open comes right up to the edge of the landing, or near enough... I feel that might be somewhat better highlighted by the following image... See how on the wall at the side of the doorway there is the tiled area and then the bricked area... from what I see the tiled area lines up with the top landing and the bricked area lines up with the first step down, and from looking at it I would say that the bricked area appear to be a third of the size of the tiled area, which would tie in well with the top landing being 3ft deep because the step is 12 inches... (hope that makes sense?) 11 minutes ago, Robin Unger said: Toni Frantini did some good work on the TSBD entrance and Prayer mans location, i am trying to find his old thread. there was some very good images in that post. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Yes, as i tried to demonstrate with my colorization,the tiled area appears to be the same depth as the top landing. As i understand it, the glass door when opened only just missed hitting the end of the hand rail, with possibly just a couple of inches to spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 January 1964 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 WC Testimony MR. BALL -- "How tall are you?" MR. FRAZIER -- "I am 6-foot, a little bit over 6-foot." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 The top landing was likely several inches deeper than 3'. The reason is that the three parts of glass door were divided roughly but not perfectly as thirds of the 3.51 m (real world measure) or 3.56 m (my estimate). Although the middle part was slightly narrower than 117 cm (an ideal third of 3.51 m), it was certainly wider than 91.4 cm (3'). Therefore, the depth of the doorway had to be slightly larger than 3' to accommodate the width of a fully open door. This is how I came to 108 cm (~3'6'') . Of course, it is still only an estimate, and I would be happy for having a figure based on some direct measurement of the original "1963" doorway. The small difference of 2'' between the model and the real world measure will be accommodated in the next revision of the model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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