The Education Forum

# Elevation

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I will start this topic with a response from James Gordon to Bill Charleston in Bill's topic " Solving the JFK assassination shooting mystery".

"Actually Bill, your previous post does not clear things up a bit.

Your thesis is that John Connally was wounded after the head shot. You use a variety of sources to support your claim. My point, which you do not appear to want to address is if he receive his wound at that point then:-the source of that shot would not be the TSBD. The wound John Connally received ran down the outside of his 5th rib. If you are in agreement that, that, is exactly how Connally was wounded THEN because of the position of the car at Z 325 and the position of John Connally within the car, the source of the shot would actually be the Records building.

If you are in agreement that the source of the wound to John Connally was other than the TSBD then we are in agreement. However if it is your position that when John Connally was wounded at Z 325 the source of the shot was the TSBD, then you are completely wrong. Geometry proves you wrong. Acoustics play no part here. It matters not one iota what the acoustics say on this point. There is no geometrical way that at Z325 a line can be drawn, from the TSBD, to accurately simulate the wound John Connally received. The only way the wound to John Connally can be accurately simulated is if the source of that wound is directed from the Records building and not the TSBD."

chris

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The inset is from the HSCA.

The plat is from the HSCA created by Drommer and Associates.

chris

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or

from in front of Connally...assuming he was hit that late...

but he wasn't.

I guess never seeing the actual film, one could come to the conclusion GJC was hit after the head shot...

really kids....really...

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The lines intersect at frame 313.

chris

Edited by Chris Davidson
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Slant measurement, Frame 313 to County Records Building using 15.8 degrees intersecting the 6th floor.

chris

P.S.

When Drommer is scaled to the correct size, my measurements are applicable.

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thats a pretty large stretch...bicbw

Where is jackie in this ? Nellie? the Car itself?

these are lines in blue space...

here is a bunch of arrows!

Edited by Blair Dobson
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Slant measurement, Frame 313 to County Records Building using 15.8 degrees intersecting the 6th floor.

chris

P.S.

When Drommer is scaled to the correct size, my measurements are applicable.

extend that line in the other direction and where does it take you?

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Chris,

This is an interesting thread. I well remember that discussion with Bill. Indeed, there was a time that I also agreed with him that Connally was injured post head shot.

There was a time I believed that there was only one Zapruder frame when Connally could have been injured. I have since learnt that is an error. As you have eloquently pointed out it is quite possible to describe that wounding at Z 313. I have since realized that it is possible to set up trajectory analysis for Z317, Z 236, Z 230. I was even able to get a positive result for Z 346. However each originated from a different source. Z 317 went to the 6th floor west window; Z236 went to the Daltex and Z349 went to the County Courts.

I came to realize that which moment is chosen is a matter personal choice based on the what the research suggests. The only frame that never produced a positive result was Z 223/4. The twin trajectories, that I have written about so often, were what prohibited that from being a positive result.

My decision that Connally’s wounding took place before the head shot was my ability to demonstrate that between the late Z 280’s up to the early Z300’s Nellie can be clearly saving an already wounded John Connally. This was made possible in no small way to the quality of Z frames you gave me.

To cut a long story short I ended up believing the moment John Connally received his chest wound was Z 230. Although I am working on seriously upgrading my model and its images, below is a early example of my workings for Z 230.

Z 230 Combined image:-

It was interesting to me that Z 317 and Z 230 had both pointed to the 6th floor west window. These windows were open throughout the assassination. I became quite curious about what it was like behind this wall. If there were an assassin there what were conditions like. Generously Gary Murr shared with me an image, that was quite a shock for me. Down that south wall was a corridor. If there was more than one assassin there is no impediment to communicate and co-ordinate. For me this picture was another corroboration for this west window being a potential sniper point.

Behind the TSBD South Wall:-

I should have been more alert, but it was much later that I remembered the Dillard. I believe the window this image is taken from is window nearest to us in the above south wall. Therefore this person was very close to the sixth floor west wall.

Dillard Image:-

I appreciate you feel Z 313 is a possible moment and you are right to suggest that such a moment leads back to the Records building. However Nellie’s rescue tells me that cannot be. However, Z 313 could well be the moment John Connally’s wrist was injured.

James.

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Hello James

As you feel that JBC received his chest wound at z230, do you feel the same bullet caused his wrist and thigh wound, or do you feel they were caused by another bullet and, if so, at which frame would that shot have been?

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can we have a car in the graphics? with people in it?

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Robert,

By far the neatest explanation is that the wrist and the chest wound were inflicted at the same time. As I have pointed out a number of times the entrance wound was lateral to the dorsal: in simple terms just up from the position of the thumb. Highlighted by the yellow circle. It exited approx. in the middle of the volar surface, indicated by the red circle. The model is not exact, but it is reasonably accurate.

In order for the hand to be wounded in line with the damage viewed by Charles Gregory, it has to be raised and turned to an approx 45º. It cannot be flat against the chest, as it is at Z223/4 and indeed as it is around 230. So I always concluded it had to be at a different poin.

Wrist wound:-

I do not take the credit for this. It was Gary Murr who suggested that the damage to the jacket sleeve and shirt cuff suggested a fragmented bullet. A bullet that had already impacted something else. He asked that I look at Z 313 and see what that suggests. Below is my very first experiment. I will be coming back to this and will refine it far better than what is seen here. But even with this rough attempt I realized that Gary could be onto something.

Model Trajectory for fragment:-

Last year Chris Davidson gave me some very clear copies of Zapruder slides. So I went to Z 313 and began to see if there was anything within Zapruder to support this idea.

It is clear that something, be it blood and/or brain matter and/or bone matter and/or missile fragments are moving away from the head. And what struck me most one of these object is moving towards the wrist and towards the exact location of the entrance wound.

I know Connally did not receive his wrist wound when he received his chest wound. My model suggests that Z 313 is a possible moment and Z 313 tends to suggest that something is moving in the direction of the wrist.

Z 313:-

This does not prove the wrist was wounded at this time, but it is where my thinking is at present.

James.

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According to the description, this was taken from atop the County Records building.

chris

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Blair,

What you see below is a model I used for a presentation earlier this year. However it will suffice to answer your question, which may also be in the minds of others.

When I began my 3D model the characters were clearly a concern. As I have stated on numerous occasions I am in awe of the animation skills of Dale Myers. His models are literally outstanding. The expense and work he went to is beyond criticism.

However he uses closed models. Yes the models look exactly like the people they represent, but you cannot see the wounds that Myers talks about. Nor can you verify that where he says the wound is, that is exactly where it is. We have to take Dale Myers on trust. I am not saying that Dale Myers is lying, but I am saying we cannot verify what he is saying.

By using an anatomical model that has the complete body systems I can replicate injury and damage to the body. What I have lost is identity.

That was a deliberate decision I made: to enable verification at the expense of identity.

In the image you see below you can verify that I have placed the trajectory pointer along the fifth rib. Now had I used a closed model, like Dale Myers, you could not verify what I was saying.

Z 197 model:-

James.

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Chris,

Your image illustrates just what an excellent firing position the Records building is. It is a far better location to fire from than the TSBD.

As I recollect there is evidence that shells were found on the roof long after the assassination.

However my problem with a Z312/3 point for the Connally chest wound goes back to Nellie's rescue. If Nellie was rescuing a wounded John Connally at Z 290 onwards, then Z312/3 could not also be the point he was wounded.

This harks back to a point I mentioned above. I was surprised to find that there are numerous moments that fit the point when John Connally could be wounded.

I have not the means to challenge your arithmetic, I just know that whatever the logic that suggests Z312/3 it has to be wrong if Connally was wounded earlier.

Looking at your image, would that tree on the LHS not impede accurate sighting?

James.

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James,

I'm not determining when a shot would have occurred on film.

I'm trying to show how the location of a shooter could have been obfuscated by the powers that be.

chris

P.S