Plagiarism and the Kennedy assassination

[Greg Parker]

One other question Greg. If you are basing your preposition on the difference in Baker's story, 3rd or 4th floor vs Truly's 2nd floor lunchroom, then how much credence do you give to LHO's statement that he and Baker encountered each other in the lunchroom? LHO didn't change his story.

He didn't have to change it. Fritz did.

The only person who told the truth about his alibi was the much maligned Harry Holmes. Harry was brought in because of the PO boxes and weapons orders. He did his job on those stitching Oswald up. But they forgot to clue him in on the alibi and he gave it away.

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up."

He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him.

You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me."

Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say where he was at the time of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He just said he was still up in the building when the commotion-- he kind of----

Mr. BELIN. Did he gesture with his hands, do you remember?

Mr. HOLMES. He talked with his hands all the time. He was handcuffed, but he was quiet--well, he was not what you call a stoic phlegmatic person. He is very definite with his talk and his eyes and his head, and he goes like that, you see.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say anything about seeing a man with a crewcut in front of the building as he was about to leave it? Do you remember anything about that?

Mr. HOLMES. No.

Mr. BELIN. You don't remember anything about that. Did he say anything about telling a man about going to a pay phone in the building?

Mr. HOLMES. Policeman rushed--I take it back---I don't know whether he said a policeman or not--a man came rushing by and said, "Where's your telephone?"

And the man showed him some kind of credential and I don't know that he identified the credential, so he might not have been a police officer, and said I am so and so, and shoved something at me which I didn't look at and said, "Where is the telephone?"

And I said, "Right there," and just pointed in to the phone, and I went on out.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say why he left the building?

Mr. HOLMES. No; other than just said he talked about this commotion and went out to see what it was about.

---------------------

The bolded, underlined text is exactly what happened with the so-called rol call. Police took personal contact details before allowing people to leave. Did Oswald just correctly guess that that was what happened?

His interrogation report says much the same:

"When asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting, he stated that when lunch time came, and he didn't say which floor he was on, he said one of the Negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "You go on down and send the elevator back up and I will join you in a few minutes." Before he could finish whatever he was doing, he stated, the commotion surrounding the assassination took place and when he went down stairs, a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that "he is one of our employees" whereupon the policeman had him step aside momentarily. Following this, he simply walked out the front door of the building. I don't recall that anyone asked why he left or where or how he went. I just presumed that this had been covered in an earlier questioning.

This was supported by some first day news stories citing unnamed police (probably ed Hickey)

It was further supported by evidence from a fellow employee given to the HSCA and again deed-sixed.

This in my opinion is how Oswald's name appeared at the top of Revill's employee list. No Baker. The cop was most likely Welcome Barnett who guarded the front entrance (though naturally he denied seeing Oswald leave).

[Thomas Graves]

One other question Greg. If you are basing your preposition on the difference in Baker's story, 3rd or 4th floor vs Truly's 2nd floor lunchroom, then how much credence do you give to LHO's statement that he and Baker encountered each other in the lunchroom? LHO didn't change his story.

He didn't have to change it. Fritz did.

The only person who told the truth about his alibi was the much maligned Harry Holmes. Harry was brought in because of the PO boxes and weapons orders. He did his job on those stitching Oswald up. But they forgot to clue him in on the alibi and he gave it away.

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up."

He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him.

You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me."

Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say where he was at the time of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He just said he was still up in the building when the commotion-- he kind of----

Mr. BELIN. Did he gesture with his hands, do you remember?

Mr. HOLMES. He talked with his hands all the time. He was handcuffed, but he was quiet--well, he was not what you call a stoic phlegmatic person. He is very definite with his talk and his eyes and his head, and he goes like that, you see.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say anything about seeing a man with a crewcut in front of the building as he was about to leave it? Do you remember anything about that?

Mr. HOLMES. No.

Mr. BELIN. You don't remember anything about that. Did he say anything about telling a man about going to a pay phone in the building?

Mr. HOLMES. Policeman rushed--I take it back---I don't know whether he said a policeman or not--a man came rushing by and said, "Where's your telephone?"

And the man showed him some kind of credential and I don't know that he identified the credential, so he might not have been a police officer, and said I am so and so, and shoved something at me which I didn't look at and said, "Where is the telephone?"

And I said, "Right there," and just pointed in to the phone, and I went on out.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say why he left the building?

Mr. HOLMES. No; other than just said he talked about this commotion and went out to see what it was about.

---------------------

The bolded, underlined text is exactly what happened with the so-called rol call. Police took personal contact details before allowing people to leave. Did Oswald just correctly guess that that was what happened?

His interrogation report says much the same:

"When asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting, he stated that when lunch time came, and he didn't say which floor he was on, he said one of the Negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "You go on down and send the elevator back up and I will join you in a few minutes." Before he could finish whatever he was doing, he stated, the commotion surrounding the assassination took place and when he went down stairs, a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that "he is one of our employees" whereupon the policeman had him step aside momentarily. Following this, he simply walked out the front door of the building. I don't recall that anyone asked why he left or where or how he went. I just presumed that this had been covered in an earlier questioning.

This was supported by some first day news stories citing unnamed police (probably ed Hickey)

It was further supported by evidence from a fellow employee given to the HSCA and again deed-sixed.

This in my opinion is how Oswald's name appeared at the top of Revill's employee list. No Baker. The cop was most likely Welcome Barnett who guarded the front entrance (though naturally he denied seeing Oswald leave).

Greg,

Great post.

I've got a question about Holmes' testimony. If it's true that Oswald "wouldn't tell me what happened then," I wonder why not?

Do you think Holmes was just being devious here?

[...]

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up." He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him. You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me." Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about." And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

[...]

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited July 28, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

One other question Greg. If you are basing your preposition on the difference in Baker's story, 3rd or 4th floor vs Truly's 2nd floor lunchroom, then how much credence do you give to LHO's statement that he and Baker encountered each other in the lunchroom? LHO didn't change his story.

He didn't have to change it. Fritz did.

The only person who told the truth about his alibi was the much maligned Harry Holmes. Harry was brought in because of the PO boxes and weapons orders. He did his job on those stitching Oswald up. But they forgot to clue him in on the alibi and he gave it away.

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up."

He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him.

You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me."

Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say where he was at the time of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He just said he was still up in the building when the commotion-- he kind of----

Mr. BELIN. Did he gesture with his hands, do you remember?

Mr. HOLMES. He talked with his hands all the time. He was handcuffed, but he was quiet--well, he was not what you call a stoic phlegmatic person. He is very definite with his talk and his eyes and his head, and he goes like that, you see.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say anything about seeing a man with a crewcut in front of the building as he was about to leave it? Do you remember anything about that?

Mr. HOLMES. No.

Mr. BELIN. You don't remember anything about that. Did he say anything about telling a man about going to a pay phone in the building?

Mr. HOLMES. Policeman rushed--I take it back---I don't know whether he said a policeman or not--a man came rushing by and said, "Where's your telephone?"

And the man showed him some kind of credential and I don't know that he identified the credential, so he might not have been a police officer, and said I am so and so, and shoved something at me which I didn't look at and said, "Where is the telephone?"

And I said, "Right there," and just pointed in to the phone, and I went on out.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say why he left the building?

Mr. HOLMES. No; other than just said he talked about this commotion and went out to see what it was about.

---------------------

The bolded, underlined text is exactly what happened with the so-called rol call. Police took personal contact details before allowing people to leave. Did Oswald just correctly guess that that was what happened?

His interrogation report says much the same:

"When asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting, he stated that when lunch time came, and he didn't say which floor he was on, he said one of the Negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "You go on down and send the elevator back up and I will join you in a few minutes." Before he could finish whatever he was doing, he stated, the commotion surrounding the assassination took place and when he went down stairs, a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that "he is one of our employees" whereupon the policeman had him step aside momentarily. Following this, he simply walked out the front door of the building. I don't recall that anyone asked why he left or where or how he went. I just presumed that this had been covered in an earlier questioning.

This was supported by some first day news stories citing unnamed police (probably ed Hickey)

It was further supported by evidence from a fellow employee given to the HSCA and again deed-sixed.

This in my opinion is how Oswald's name appeared at the top of Revill's employee list. No Baker. The cop was most likely Welcome Barnett who guarded the front entrance (though naturally he denied seeing Oswald leave).

Greg,

Great post.

I've got a question about Holmes' testimony. If it's true that Oswald "wouldn't tell me what happened then," I wonder why not?

Do you think Holmes was just being devious here?

EDIT: Possible explanation -- Oswald didn't want to admit to Holmes that he left work without permission and after being told by his supervisor and / or a police officer to wait around for further questioning with the other TSBD workers.

[...]

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up." He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him. You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me." Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about." And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

[...]

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited July 28, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Greg Parker]

One other question Greg. If you are basing your preposition on the difference in Baker's story, 3rd or 4th floor vs Truly's 2nd floor lunchroom, then how much credence do you give to LHO's statement that he and Baker encountered each other in the lunchroom? LHO didn't change his story.

He didn't have to change it. Fritz did.

The only person who told the truth about his alibi was the much maligned Harry Holmes. Harry was brought in because of the PO boxes and weapons orders. He did his job on those stitching Oswald up. But they forgot to clue him in on the alibi and he gave it away.

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up."

He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him.

You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me."

Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say where he was at the time of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He just said he was still up in the building when the commotion-- he kind of----

Mr. BELIN. Did he gesture with his hands, do you remember?

Mr. HOLMES. He talked with his hands all the time. He was handcuffed, but he was quiet--well, he was not what you call a stoic phlegmatic person. He is very definite with his talk and his eyes and his head, and he goes like that, you see.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say anything about seeing a man with a crewcut in front of the building as he was about to leave it? Do you remember anything about that?

Mr. HOLMES. No.

Mr. BELIN. You don't remember anything about that. Did he say anything about telling a man about going to a pay phone in the building?

Mr. HOLMES. Policeman rushed--I take it back---I don't know whether he said a policeman or not--a man came rushing by and said, "Where's your telephone?"

And the man showed him some kind of credential and I don't know that he identified the credential, so he might not have been a police officer, and said I am so and so, and shoved something at me which I didn't look at and said, "Where is the telephone?"

And I said, "Right there," and just pointed in to the phone, and I went on out.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say why he left the building?

Mr. HOLMES. No; other than just said he talked about this commotion and went out to see what it was about.

---------------------

The bolded, underlined text is exactly what happened with the so-called rol call. Police took personal contact details before allowing people to leave. Did Oswald just correctly guess that that was what happened?

His interrogation report says much the same:

"When asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting, he stated that when lunch time came, and he didn't say which floor he was on, he said one of the Negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "You go on down and send the elevator back up and I will join you in a few minutes." Before he could finish whatever he was doing, he stated, the commotion surrounding the assassination took place and when he went down stairs, a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that "he is one of our employees" whereupon the policeman had him step aside momentarily. Following this, he simply walked out the front door of the building. I don't recall that anyone asked why he left or where or how he went. I just presumed that this had been covered in an earlier questioning.

This was supported by some first day news stories citing unnamed police (probably ed Hickey)

It was further supported by evidence from a fellow employee given to the HSCA and again deed-sixed.

This in my opinion is how Oswald's name appeared at the top of Revill's employee list. No Baker. The cop was most likely Welcome Barnett who guarded the front entrance (though naturally he denied seeing Oswald leave).

Greg,

Great post.

I've got a question about Holmes' testimony. If it's true that Oswald "wouldn't tell me what happened then," I wonder why not?

Do you think Holmes was just being devious here?

EDIT: Possible explanation -- Oswald didn't want to admit to Holmes that he left work without permission and after being told by his supervisor and / or a police officer to wait around for further questioning with the other TSBD workers.

[...]

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up." He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him. You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me." Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about." And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

[...]

Thanks,

--Tommy

That's possible Tommy. Or he didn't want to talk about his mode of transport for a any number of reasons - not least, simply not wanting to drag someone else into it that he thought had done nothing wrong.

[Kenneth Drew]

One other question Greg. If you are basing your preposition on the difference in Baker's story, 3rd or 4th floor vs Truly's 2nd floor lunchroom, then how much credence do you give to LHO's statement that he and Baker encountered each other in the lunchroom? LHO didn't change his story.

He didn't have to change it. Fritz did.

The only person who told the truth about his alibi was the much maligned Harry Holmes. Harry was brought in because of the PO boxes and weapons orders. He did his job on those stitching Oswald up. But they forgot to clue him in on the alibi and he gave it away.

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up."

He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him.

You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me."

Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say where he was at the time of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He just said he was still up in the building when the commotion-- he kind of----

Mr. BELIN. Did he gesture with his hands, do you remember?

Mr. HOLMES. He talked with his hands all the time. He was handcuffed, but he was quiet--well, he was not what you call a stoic phlegmatic person. He is very definite with his talk and his eyes and his head, and he goes like that, you see.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say anything about seeing a man with a crewcut in front of the building as he was about to leave it? Do you remember anything about that?

Mr. HOLMES. No.

Mr. BELIN. You don't remember anything about that. Did he say anything about telling a man about going to a pay phone in the building?

Mr. HOLMES. Policeman rushed--I take it back---I don't know whether he said a policeman or not--a man came rushing by and said, "Where's your telephone?"

And the man showed him some kind of credential and I don't know that he identified the credential, so he might not have been a police officer, and said I am so and so, and shoved something at me which I didn't look at and said, "Where is the telephone?"

And I said, "Right there," and just pointed in to the phone, and I went on out.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say why he left the building?

Mr. HOLMES. No; other than just said he talked about this commotion and went out to see what it was about.

---------------------

The bolded, underlined text is exactly what happened with the so-called rol call. Police took personal contact details before allowing people to leave. Did Oswald just correctly guess that that was what happened?

His interrogation report says much the same:

"When asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting, he stated that when lunch time came, and he didn't say which floor he was on, he said one of the Negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "You go on down and send the elevator back up and I will join you in a few minutes." Before he could finish whatever he was doing, he stated, the commotion surrounding the assassination took place and when he went down stairs, a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that "he is one of our employees" whereupon the policeman had him step aside momentarily. Following this, he simply walked out the front door of the building. I don't recall that anyone asked why he left or where or how he went. I just presumed that this had been covered in an earlier questioning.

This was supported by some first day news stories citing unnamed police (probably ed Hickey)

It was further supported by evidence from a fellow employee given to the HSCA and again deed-sixed.

This in my opinion is how Oswald's name appeared at the top of Revill's employee list. No Baker. The cop was most likely Welcome Barnett who guarded the front entrance (though naturally he denied seeing Oswald leave).

Greg,

Great post.

I've got a question about Holmes' testimony. If it's true that Oswald "wouldn't tell me what happened then," I wonder why not?

Do you think Holmes was just being devious here?

EDIT: Possible explanation -- Oswald didn't want to admit to Holmes that he left work without permission and after being told by his supervisor and / or a police officer to wait around for further questioning with the other TSBD workers.

[...]

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up." He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him. You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me." Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about." And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

[...]

Thanks,

--Tommy

That's possible Tommy. Or he didn't want to talk about his mode of transport for a any number of reasons - not least, simply not wanting to drag someone else into it that he thought had done nothing wrong.

My point was that LHO said there was a meeting with Baker and Truly at or near the front door. Baker said 3rd or 4th, Truly said 2nd. seems certain that it was one or the other. It seems as if anyone thinks there was a lot of commotion going on at the time, they would be correct.

[Mark Knight]

IF I understand correctly....Captain Will Fritz took NO notes DURING the questioning of Oswald Instead, Fritz "reconstructed" some notes a few days later. Holmes also took NO notes During the questioning of Oswald. Holmes claims that Oswald said he met the officer at or near the front door. Fritz says Oswald said the encounter was at or in the second-floor lunchroom Baker says it was the third or 4th floor, near the steps. Truly says it was at or in the second-floor lunchroom.

DVP claims nobody was lying. [Apparently only Jim DiEugenio and I use that term. How odd.]

So why so many different stories? If 1) the story told by i) Fritz, OR ii) Holmes, OR iii) Baker is the truth, then 2) at least two of the stories are not true.

And what do we call someone who testifies to something that is not true? [A sworn affidavit is a legal document, as we know.]

And it's not as if the details weren't important. Until Ruby shot Oswald, Oswald's life hung in the balance, depending upon which story was true. If Holmes was telling the truth, then that means someone else was not. So the details WERE and ARE important. DVP's standard "what does it matter?" response is invalid in this matter.

Greg, good "catch" of the Holmes statement.

[Greg Parker]

My point was that LHO said there was a meeting with Baker and Truly at or near the front door. Baker said 3rd or 4th, Truly said 2nd. seems certain that it was one or the other. It seems as if anyone thinks there was a lot of commotion going on at the time, they would be correct.

Ken, you may have thought that is what you said, but this is actually what you did say... "how much credence do you give to LHO's statement that he and Baker encountered each other in the lunchroom? LHO didn't change his story."

LHO moreover, never said he had a meeting with Baker and Truly. He simply said a cop (or cops, plural) and his superintendent (or supervisor). Baker= Barnett. Truly could be right - or it could be Shelley.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Greg Parker

[Greg Parker]

IF I understand correctly....Captain Will Fritz took NO notes DURING the questioning of Oswald Instead, Fritz "reconstructed" some notes a few days later. Holmes also took NO notes During the questioning of Oswald. Holmes claims that Oswald said he met the officer at or near the front door. Fritz says Oswald said the encounter was at or in the second-floor lunchroom Baker says it was the third or 4th floor, near the steps. Truly says it was at or in the second-floor lunchroom.

DVP claims nobody was lying. [Apparently only Jim DiEugenio and I use that term. How odd.]

So why so many different stories? If 1) the story told by i) Fritz, OR ii) Holmes, OR iii) Baker is the truth, then 2) at least two of the stories are not true.

And what do we call someone who testifies to something that is not true? [A sworn affidavit is a legal document, as we know.]

And it's not as if the details weren't important. Until Ruby shot Oswald, Oswald's life hung in the balance, depending upon which story was true. If Holmes was telling the truth, then that means someone else was not. So the details WERE and ARE important. DVP's standard "what does it matter?" response is invalid in this matter.

Greg, good "catch" of the Holmes statement.

Thank you, Mark.

[Kenneth Drew]

My point was that LHO said there was a meeting with Baker and Truly at or near the front door. Baker said 3rd or 4th, Truly said 2nd. seems certain that it was one or the other. It seems as if anyone thinks there was a lot of commotion going on at the time, they would be correct.

Ken, you may have thought that is what you said, but this is actually what you did say... "how much credence do you give to LHO's statement that he and Baker encountered each other in the lunchroom? LHO didn't change his story."

LHO moreover, never said he had a meeting with Baker and Truly. He simply said a cop (or cops, plural) and his superintendent (or supervisor). Baker= Barnett. Truly could be right - or it could be Shelley.

Ken, you may have thought that is what you said, but this is actually what you did say..never said he had a meeting with Baker and Truly. He simply said a cop (or cops, plural) and his superintendent Well, you certainly cleared that up

[Kenneth Drew]

9:30 - 11:15 A.M., SUNDAY MORNING, NOV. 24,1963 Interrogation in Capt. Will Fritz's Office

"After the assassination, a policeman or some man came rushing into the School Book Depository Building and said, `Where is your telephone?' He showed me some kind of credential and identified himself, so he might not have been a police officer. . . . `Right there,' I answered, pointing to the phone. . . . `Yes, I can eat lunch with you,' I told my co-worker, `but I can't go right now. You go and take the elevator, but send the elevator back up.' [The elevator in the building was broken.] . . . After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what it was all about. A police officer and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building. . . . If you ask me about the shooting of Tippit, I don't know what you are talking about. . . .

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html

?

By the way, this was copyrighted in 1978

Edited July 28, 2015 by Kenneth Drew

[Greg Parker]

9:30 - 11:15 A.M., SUNDAY MORNING, NOV. 24,1963 Interrogation in Capt. Will Fritz's Office

"After the assassination, a policeman or some man came rushing into the School Book Depository Building and said, `Where is your telephone?' He showed me some kind of credential and identified himself, so he might not have been a police officer. . . . `Right there,' I answered, pointing to the phone. . . . `Yes, I can eat lunch with you,' I told my co-worker, `but I can't go right now. You go and take the elevator, but send the elevator back up.' [The elevator in the building was broken.] . . . After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what it was all about. A police officer and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building. . . . If you ask me about the shooting of Tippit, I don't know what you are talking about. . . .

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html

?

By the way, this was copyrighted in 1978

It's also bollocks, Ken - useful as a very rough guide only. It is a compilation of quotes from various sources (some more reliable than others) and should not be seen as necessarily accurate, or even what is generally "known" or supported. It is one of the rare instances where Holmes' testimony has been used, but you'll find few who know it's Holmes, and fewer still who care. The section you quote is certainly not in any sort of chronological order. From memory, the rest is pretty much the same.

And is it even possible to copyright a series of quotes with no input from yourself, except the randomness of the order you put them in?

Edited July 28, 2015 by Greg Parker

[Ron Ecker]

http://www.ciajfk.com/Russ-Baker-X.html

THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPEN IN THE JFK community. ,gaal

I understand what plagiarism is. But what's the term for a website about a book that doesn't even have the book title right? (It's Family of Secrets, not Family Secrets.)

[Thomas Graves]

http://www.ciajfk.com/Russ-Baker-X.html

THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPEN IN THE JFK community. ,gaal

I understand what plagiarism is. But what's the term for a website about a book that doesn't even have the book title right? (It's Family of Secrets, not Family Secrets.)

And I thought it was Family Jewells!

--Tommy

[Ed LeDoux]

Sorry Greg I "thought" this same thing.

I can't prove it.

But by my saying I did and before you did I am obviously the originator....

I've seen some of my work in other webpages without credit.

Some real pieces of work around these parts

Gee, Ed, I'm sure you'll be disappointed to learn that I did a Google search for you and couldn't find any quotes attributed to you. So whatever you said, if it lives on, it's by quotes from others. Sorry.

Sorry to learn your search was empty, by that I mean no quotes attributed to you.

My quotes are here and on many forums, so no they live on as my words.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ed+ledoux+jfk&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Although some researches do give proper credit like Hasan.

http://jfkthelonegunmanmyth.blogspot.com/2014/09/a-few-words-on-former-dpd-captain.html

Its not just words but the ideas, like Greg has shown, have been copied and used as their own without proper credit.

Much is gone like material at Lancer I developed.

But yet a simple google of Ed Ledoux did return results. Research that is original. Hatbadge Man, Bus Transfer, etc, are proof. Other sites quoting that research is proof.

Cubans Packin' In The Plaza - The Education Forum

educationforum.ipbhost.com › ... › JFK Assassination Debate

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Neely Street. She recalled OSWALD's watch had been in disrepair and, ... Edited by Ed LeDoux, 20 September 2011 - 06:28 PM. Back to top ...

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Hmm looks like I've been quoted. How bout you?

[Greg Parker]

It's an impressive body of work, Ed. Wish we had the funds and you the time to emulate Armstrong and send you all over to interview people. We have the advantage of knowing who needs to be interviewed - and what questions need asking. You'd be one of my picks to do that that job.