Was Oswald promised a job when he got out?

[Steve Thomas]

Let's assume for a minute that Lee Oswald was part of a fake defector program set up by the CIA or ONI, and as part of that program, the defectors were told, “You do this for us, and we'll have a job waiting for you when you come back.”

 

Oswald would had to have been given a job commensurate with his experience, with what he was qualified to do.

 

Lee Harvey Oswald in His Own Words: The Collective

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/thecollective.htm

“500 people, during the day shift, are employed on the huge stamp and pressing machines; here sheet metal is turned into metal frames and cabinets for televisions and radios. I worked for 23 months at this plant.”

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bouhe.htm

 

“Mr. LIEBELER - Let me ask you specifically if Oswald ever discussed with you the job that he had while he was in the Soviet Union?
Mr. BOUHE - Only I could pull out fragmentary information, and frankly I didn't press him because he was sort of reluctant to talk. I don't remember what he really said, except that he worked in a sheet metal factory.”

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/taylor1.htm

 

“Mr. TAYLOR. All right. Lee, on various occasions, and I discussed the life that he led in Russia,... That he worked as a sheet-metal fabricator in the town of Minsk,

Mr. TAYLOR. It was never--we never discussed this. But I always felt like that he was disappointed that they put him in a factory forming sheet metal and didn't give him what he felt was something important to do.”

 

According to Marina, after they got back to the U.S. On June 17th, they lived with Lee's brother Robert, and Lee loafed around for about a month. A month after they got back, Lee went to work for Louv-R-Pac, a division of Leslie Welding. He started on July 17^th.

 

Tommy Bargas, the foreman of Louv-R-Pac told the WC that he went through the Texas Employment Commission looking for a sheet metal worker. He swore up and down that it was nothing out of the ordinary, and just a regular part of doing business. He didn't call the TEC himself. His secretary called.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bargas.htm

 

Lee must have registered with them some time in June, but the thing is, there isn't anything from the TEC in the WC records prior to his getting a job at Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall in October.

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/adams_r.htm

Testimony of R.L. Adams Placement Interviewer, Texas Employment Commission

 

Mr. ADAMS - I joined TEC on March 9, 1962.

Mr. ADAMS - At the time that I--in September, ,beginning the second week in September of 1963, I was brought in from employment service representative duties, which is going out and calling on businesses to gain some experience on a placement desk.
After I had been there, well, when November the 22d rolled around and a couple of months--when this happened, the following Monday morning when I came to work, I said, "I'll bet that boy is in my flies."
I went to check and I couldn't find any record of it, and the office manager said, "What are you looking for?" And I said, "You know what I am looking for." And he said, "I've found it."
Mr. JENNER - Who is the office manager?
Mr. ADAMS - Mr. A. K. Sayre [spelling] S-a-y-r-e.”

 

On August 14, 1964, Mr. Arthur K. Sayre, Office Manager at TEC made available to the FBI a card on Joe Molina, so was still there as late as mid-August, 1964.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11821&search=Sayre#relPageId=54&tab=page

 

When Lee Oswald got back from Russia, he was taken under the wing of George Bouhe, the personal accountant of one of the richest men in America, and Max Clark, the Supervisor of Industrial Security and Investigation for Convair, a position which required access to information up to and including Top Secret.

 

In looking a this question, I ran across an anomaly, or a discrepancy, or whatever you want to call it.

 

George DeMohrenschildt and the Oswalds arranged a party at their house for Sunday, October 7, 1962. They were supposed to be introduced to the the divorced couple, Elana and John Hall, and Gary and Alexandra Taylor. Marguerite Oswald and George Bouhe were also there. The problem is, the people involved seemed to have a problem as to when that party took place.

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hall_j.htm

 

Mr. HALL - The first time was during the latter part of these marital difficulties with my wife whom I was divorced with at the time.
I had started my business in Odessa, Tex., and I believe this was in about August of 1962, when I was making many trips from Odessa to Forth Worth, for the purpose of seeing my wife. And the first time, I believe it was in August of 1962, that I met Oswald, was about - when I made one of these weekend trips. I came in on Friday night or Saturday,

 

We went over to their apartment near Montgomery Ward in Fort Worth with George Bouhe, and I forget the people's names, they were over there from Dallas - DeMohrenschildt's daughter and her husband, I believe that is.
Mr. LIEBELER - Would that be Gary and Alexandra Taylor?
Mr. HALL - Yes; we discussed what was going to happen, and in this Oswald was going to move to Dallas and try to locate a job.

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/taylor1.htm

 

Mr. JENNER. Now, when was it you met them? (the Oswalds)
Mr. TAYLOR. I believe it was in September 1962.

 

Mr. JENNER. Was this a prearranged meeting, an accidental meeting, or was it a purposeful meeting?
Mr. TAYLOR. It was prearranged.

 

Mr. JENNER. This is something your wife told you?
Mr. TAYLOR. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. TAYLOR. That a Russian girl, Mrs. Oswald, was living in Fort Worth with her husband, and that they were going to be--the De Mohrenschildts were going to be in Fort Worth on Sunday afternoon attending a concert and that after the concert, they would like for us to join them, the De Mohrenschildts, and visit the Oswalds.
Mr. JENNER. Now, when was this?
Mr. TAYLOR. In early September of 1962.

 

Mr. JENNER. And your father-in-law and your mother-in-law, the De Mohrenschildts, yourself, and your wife anybody else present?
Mr. TAYLOR. Yes; several other people were present. Lee Oswald's mother was there.
Mr. JENNER. Marguerite Oswald?
Mr. TAYLOR. Yes. George Bouhe was there. A Mr. and Mrs. Hall was there--- John Hall and his estranged wife. I'm not sure of her name---first name.
Mr. JENNER. Elena [spelling] E-l-e-n-a--Hall?

 

Mr. JENNER. All right. What else was discussed on this--was it a Sunday afternoon?
Mr. TAYLOR. Yes; there was a discussion about Lee's job---which I believe he had just left the Friday before. He was--he terminated his employment. don't know if he was fired or how he became severed from it--and he wanted to move to Dallas.

 

Mary Ferrell Chronologies

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40390#relPageId=76&tab=page

 

Sunday, October 7, 1962

deMohrenschildt's attend an afternoon concert of Van Cliburn in Fort Worth (22H175) (24H868)

Meets the Taylors at the Oswalds. Also present are George Bouhe, Elena Hall, her ex-husband, John Hall. They discuss that Oswald has no job, that he has left his job the Friday before.

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bargas.htm

Tommy Bargas, Foreman at Leslie Welding.

 

“Mr. JENNER. What were the circumstances respecting the termination of his employment?
Mr. BARGAS. Well, what happened is--he went home one day, not during working hours, but it was right after the regular working hours.
Mr. JENNER. After the regular quitting time?
Mr. BARGAS. After quitting time at 4:30, and he went home and he didn't give any indication of whether he was going to quit or he was going to leave or anything like that.
Mr. JENNER. You expected him back the next day?
Mr. BARGAS. I expected him back the next morning and if I'm not mistaken, it was Friday, and Monday he didn't show up, I believe it was; if I'm not mistaken”.

 

Oswald worked Monday, and Tuesday he failed to show up.

 

Oswald started his job at Leslie Welding on July 17, 1962 and according to his time sheets, and pay stubs, his last day of work was Monday, October 8^th.

 

Did the Taylors and the Halls meet Oswald in August?

Was it September?

Was it October?

George Bouhe told the WC that the party was on Saturday.

 

If Oswald worked through October 8^th, how could they be discussing on October 7^th that he was destitute and had no job?

 

Did he tell the party goers that he was going to quit? He told Marina that:

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether he left that job voluntarily or was discharged?
Mrs. OSWALD. He told me that he had been discharged but I don't know why.

 

Something is not adding up here.

 

Steve Thomas

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeff Carter]

hi Steve

The recollection that Oswald was leaving the welding job seems to place the meeting in question as October 7th.

You are absolutely correct that things don’t add up. This is another topic in which skilled investigators operating in an official capacity should have noted contradictions and sought clarification. They failed to do so, and contributed to the ambiguity which defines much of the record. 

Stories of Oswald’s supposed desperate unemployment are linked, in 1962, to efforts to separate Marina from Lee (as were stories of spousal abuse). Oswald quit the welding job on October 8 and was hired at J-C-S on October 12. During the autumn of 1962, deMohrenschildt was making inquiries for Oswald in the field of industrial security. That seems to be the sort of work Oswald was hoping for, and presumably needed assistance or reference to obtain. The Reilly’s job in New Orleans seems to be linked to eventual placement in that field (co-workers hired at NASA), or served as cover - if one considers Oswald’s link to Banister’s agency as likely an industrial, or private security gig. When Oswald returned to Dallas in October 1963 he told Mary Bledsoe he was attempting to get work at Collins Radio and/or Texas Instruments.

Marina Oswald’s animus to the FBI was said to have been stoked by an impression that they had interfered with Lee’s employment or stymied application for employment. But there is no record of the FBI intervening against him at Leslie Welding, J-C-S, Reilly’s Coffee, or the TSBD. Might the FBI assisted in blunting some of Oswald’s attempts at employment in the industrial security sector, deliberately or not? Perhaps Oswald returned to Dallas feeling the FBI had somehow messed up his ability to gain traction in the industrial/private security field through his efforts in New Orleans?

[Steve Thomas]

7 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

hi Steve

The recollection that Oswald was leaving the welding job seems to place the meeting in question as October 7th.

You are absolutely correct that things don’t add up. This is another topic in which skilled investigators operating in an official capacity should have noted contradictions and sought clarification. They failed to do so, and contributed to the ambiguity which defines much of the record. 

Stories of Oswald’s supposed desperate unemployment are linked, in 1962, to efforts to separate Marina from Lee (as were stories of spousal abuse). Oswald quit the welding job on October 8 and was hired at J-C-S on October 12. During the autumn of 1962, deMohrenschildt was making inquiries for Oswald in the field of industrial security. That seems to be the sort of work Oswald was hoping for, and presumably needed assistance or reference to obtain. The Reilly’s job in New Orleans seems to be linked to eventual placement in that field (co-workers hired at NASA), or served as cover - if one considers Oswald’s link to Banister’s agency as likely an industrial, or private security gig. When Oswald returned to Dallas in October 1963 he told Mary Bledsoe he was attempting to get work at Collins Radio and/or Texas Instruments.

Marina Oswald’s animus to the FBI was said to have been stoked by an impression that they had interfered with Lee’s employment or stymied application for employment. But there is no record of the FBI intervening against him at Leslie Welding, J-C-S, Reilly’s Coffee, or the TSBD. Might the FBI assisted in blunting some of Oswald’s attempts at employment in the industrial security sector, deliberately or not? Perhaps Oswald returned to Dallas feeling the FBI had somehow messed up his ability to gain traction in the industrial/private security field through his efforts in New Orleans?

Jeff,

 

You wrote, "Stories of Oswald’s supposed desperate unemployment are linked, in 1962, to efforts to separate Marina from Lee (as were stories of spousal abuse)."

 

That was my thought too, as I was putting that thread together. The narrative of who Lee Harvey Oswald was, that was put together for us in the Warren Report, might not necessarily be the correct one. The idea that the Oswald's were destitute because Lee couldn't find a job is wrong. He had a job. I also hadn't realized up until that point that he was a sheet metal worker.

Irrespective of whether he wanted to be a photographer, or work in the import/export business, he was gainfully employed. Marina said that Lee felt the work was beneath him, but that takes a skill set, I know that I don't have.

 

I hadn't known of his interest in the industrial security business. Perhaps he shouldn't have pissed off Max Clark huh?

 

PS: October, 1962 is a very interesting period in Lee Harvey Oswald's life. I can't help but see that time period against the backdrop of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the beginning of his efforts to infiltrate the Cuban exile community.

 

In her Chronologies, Mary Ferrell has the following notes, but these may be based on George Bouhe's WC testimony:

October 12, 1962 Oswald calls George Bouhe at 6:00 PM and says “Im fine”.

October 15, 1962 Oswald calls George Bouhe at 6:00 PM and says,“I'm fine.”

October 16, 1962 Oswald calls George Bouhe and says, “Im fine.”

October 17, 1962 Oswald calls George Bouhe at 6:00 PM and says, “Im fine.”

October 18, 1962 Oswald calls George Bouhe at 6:00 PM and says, “I'm fine.”

 

Now, that may be somebody is who is faithful to a certain time, and who is taciturn; but then again, it may be something else entirely.

 

On October 19^th the calls stop. Oswald checks out of the YMCA and disappears for two weeks. He is working at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, but no one knows where he is living. Not his wife, not his bosses at JCS, not his co-workers, not his acquaintances.

 

Steve Thomas