Is anyone interested in Apollo missions...

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

This movie alone convinced two Republicans who I work with that 9-11 was an inside job. One of them is a former Navy Seal and both of them are not dummies and have an above average knowledge of history. I am watching the movie now and am begininng to arrive at some conclusions as to why it will convince more people, faster that 9/11 may well have been an inside job. In several respects it is well made, in some respects not so. I skipped the minutes between 6min and 32 min.

The half hour between minutes 33 and 110 is quite solid.

I think this movie could be a crutial turning point in the mediation of 9/11 history within the United States.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

In my opinion the second part of the movie minutes 1:11 until the end was a very mixed bag. It set in with a very heavy monatraist interpretation of twentieth century history that had some truth and a vast amount of oversimplification, and leaving out of whole critical facets of capitalism besides the banking sector. But there were also some very good parts in this section of the video.

[Len Colby]

Since a member of this forum seemingly was unable to locate the posts on this thread that indicated Mineta might have been confused about the exact timing of events on the morning of 9/11 I quickly went over the appropriated pages. See posts 37, 46, 48, 76, 78, 93, 94, 97 and 103.

Note that even Ron acknowledged Mineta might have been confused about the timing and a link was provided to a “Truther” video in which Mineta said he wasn’t sure he arrived in the PEOC at 9:25. Here’s the link again

[Len Colby]

Who’s Manata?

But seriously no one is saying Mineta lied only that he might have a) been mistaken about when he arrived, a few minutes makes a big difference in this case and conflated the tracking of flights 77 and 93.

I think it’s interesting how Mr. Lemkin claims to have me on ignore and not read my posts but keeps responding to them. Perhaps he or someone else would wiling to say which part of Scott’s chapters about what happened in the PEOC they find especially compelling. Much of it has already been discussed in this thread. They’re available here in “abridged” form.

http://journalof911studies.com/volume/2007...MustTestify.pdf

More excerpts can be found here: http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/R9Chapters.html

Interestingly one of Scott’s cited sources, an article by Michael Bronner about the NORAD tapes, provides backing for the notion controllers could have been following the ‘projected’ path of flight 93 after it crashed in a field near Shanksville, PA. As has been widely reported it was believed that flight 11 had not crashed into the WTC and its ‘projected’ flight path was tracked. Scoggins was “Boston Center's military liaison, Colin Scoggins, a civilian manager”:

An unwieldy conference call between F.A.A. centers had been established, and Scoggins was monitoring it when the word came across -- from whom or where isn't clear -- that American 11 was thought to be headed for Washington. Scoggins told me he thinks that the problem started with someone overheard trying to confirm from American whether American 11 was down -- that somewhere in the flurry of information zipping back and forth during the conference call this transmogrified into the idea that a different plane had hit the tower, and that American 11 was still hijacked and still in the air. The plane's course, had it continued south past New York in the direction it was flying before it dipped below radar coverage, would have had it headed on a straight course toward D.C. This was all controllers were going on; they were never tracking an actual plane on the radar after losing American 11 near Manhattan, but if it had been flying low enough, the plane could have gone undetected. "After talking to a supervisor, I made the call and said [American 11] is still in the air, and it's probably somewhere over New Jersey or Delaware heading for Washington, D.C.," Scoggins told me.

http://www.electric-escape.net/node/1561?P...91935aa5b1e2c86

This passage which Scott didn’t quote actually undermines another of his points, but I don’t have time for that now, perhaps I’ll get around to it tomorrow.

[Charles Drago]

There is an effort well underway to demonize wll who would question the official United States government conspiracy theory of 9-11 by conflating and equating their efforts with those of so-called Holocaust Deniers.

One or both of the recent examples I cite below may be "innocent" -- that is, unconnected to ongoing propaganda campaigns. But in the final analysis, the damage to those honorably seeking the truth about 9-11 will be done.

See 9-11 Truth And The Holocaust , by Wendy Campbell http://www.countercurrents.org/campbell240108.htm

Better yet, see

Curt Maynard's Blog, Why do people question the holocaust?

http://curtmaynardsblog.blogspot.com/2008/...-holocaust.html

Dig the opening line of the latter:

"People question the holocaust for exactly the same reason they are currently questioning the official version of what really happened on 9-11 ... "

It will not be long before the mainstream media begins to make the 9-11/Holocaust comparisons.

Charles

[Mark Stapleton]

There is an effort well underway to demonize wll who would question the official United States government conspiracy theory of 9-11 by conflating and equating their efforts with those of so-called Holocaust Deniers.

One or both of the recent examples I cite below may be "innocent" -- that is, unconnected to ongoing propaganda campaigns. But in the final analysis, the damage to those honorably seeking the truth about 9-11 will be done.

See 9-11 Truth And The Holocaust , by Wendy Campbell http://www.countercurrents.org/campbell240108.htm

Better yet, see

Curt Maynard's Blog, Why do people question the holocaust?

http://curtmaynardsblog.blogspot.com/2008/...-holocaust.html

Dig the opening line of the latter:

"People question the holocaust for exactly the same reason they are currently questioning the official version of what really happened on 9-11 ... "

It will not be long before the mainstream media begins to make the 9-11/Holocaust comparisons.

Charles

They'll have a tough time doing that, imo. The circumstances were so different. However, when it comes to the mainstream media, nothing would surprise me.

You make a good point, Charles. If researchers/historians/general public believe there are holes in the official version of any historical event, they should be entitled to pursue their research and present it for evaluation. That's why jailing holocaust deniers is so stupid. As Rivero states in the Curtis Maynard blog, 'the truth doesn't need laws to support it'.

[Charles Drago]

I would add, Mark, that the lesson here is as simple as it is important:

Make no such comparisons, and allow none to go unredressed.

[Len Colby]

You all realized that both articles were written by “truthers” sympathetic to Holocaust denial, didn’t you? An even cursory reading of them should have made that clear. The truth is that a significant minority of the truth movement are Holocaust deniers. I find it ironic that Mr. Drago would so object to such comparisons since he started a thread in which he compared LN’s to Holocaust Deniers.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ic=9822&hl=

The truth is that the controlled demolition of the WTC theories are not very different from creationism or Holocaust denial all three go against the near unanimous opinions of those with relevant expertise an instead offer up their experts, often holders of advanced degrees, but inevitably in un related fields. The closest the truthers get to “experts” are a particle physicist who specialized in “cold fusion”, a mechanical engineer who specialized in dental fillings and a structural engineer who specialized in oil rigs.

[Charles Drago]

"Colby" makes my point, chillingly and precisely.

"He" and others are being sent out to conflate the arguments of so-called truthers (only in America can "seeking the truth" be leveled as an insult) and Holocaust Deniers.

Do we need additional evidence to understand "Colby's" game?

[Len Colby]

True to form being unable to refute any of my points Drago resorts to sowing FUD. Odd that he feels justified in associating those he disagrees with with Holocaust denial but so objects when others use a similar tactics.

Like it or not several of the leading truthers are Holocaust deniers. I don't know who calls " seeking the truth an insult. Many members of the so called "truth movement" call themselves "truthers".

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

Yep I saw this one comming. Been gestating for a while... this conflation. It bears reminding the critical role of left-gatekeeping in all this. That is why I keep repeating the lessons of Encounter magazine. The right is not subject to this type of firewall strategy.

The only way to solve this is by teaching the history of Communications Research.

Nervous Liberals by Brett Gary is essential. It shows the crucial debate between Wlter Lippmann and John Dewy in the 1920s as the critical point where liberlism went irrevocably off track in support of hierarchical thought control, elite opinion architecture, whateva.

With liberalism like that... it would soon not matter if somebody would have talked or not!

Sixty years of communications research. This is the CIA, perhaps moreso than spooks and bullets. Tha magic is in the editors!

[Jack White]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6...r=goog-sl\

9/11 Pattern of the Crimes (24 minutes) [Caution: gruesome image of WTC "jumper" at end.]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3...r=goog-sl\

9/11 Pattern of the Signs (27 minutes)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6...r=goog-sl\

9/11 Pattern of the Times (34 minutes)

[Otto B Cornejo]

If you click on the link and get a BAD REQUEST error, remove the slash at the end and reload the page.

Thanks for these. Can't say I support their every theory, but it was interesting enough.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Otto B Cornejo

[Len Colby]

Jack, Otto, Peter or anybody else who’s seen the videos,

What, if anything, is new in them that hasn’t already been presented in numerous other “truth” “documentaries”? I’m a bit leery of investing the time in to watching yet another 9/11 video that repackages all the same info, disinfo and misinfo as all the others.

[Charles Drago]

The word truth in quotes.

As subtle as a Mauser round in the back of the neck.

WARNING: In my personal opinion: "Len Colby" is an agent provocateur, a breeder of disinformation. It is likely that "he" is in fact a composite character, a fiction created to attack the truth and those who speak it. But even if "Colby" exists as advertised, "he" yet serves the agendas of the assassins of John F. Kennedy. Informed, cynical readings of "his" posts will lead to deeper understandings of our enemies, their methods, and their goals.