Is anyone interested in Apollo missions...

[Guest David Guyatt]

I know you often missed these kinds of details David but we’re talking about 2 similar but different quotes Mike made. One from 2006 the other a few days ago. He apparently forgot about the more recent one and claimed not to have said what I quoted him as saying even though I quoted his exact words a few times starting 6 days after he replied to you.

I provided a link to the more recent quote in which he used the exact words quoted him in. People are free to draw there own conclusions about your respective mental faculties based his memory lapse and yet another reading comprehension error on your part.

When you return from your temporary escape and evasion exercise, please be good enough to post the link (or should we say "a" link?) to the numbered forum post where Michael Hogan explicitly states:

Quote:

“the 9/11 Commission devoted barely one page to Atta, the man they called the ringleader of the plot.”

Unquote

The foregoing was extracted from Michael Hogan's post No. 85 in this thread.

Michael has accused you of using bogus quotation marks. You have yet to prove this accusation unfounded, despite two opportunities to do so.

Well I popped in quickly Dave. Sorry I forgot I'm dealing with members who are intelectually challenged. You are having another one of your 'where is your bio?'/'where is the Mineta link' moments. In a previous post I provided this link

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...mp;#entry137774

Which should lead you to post # 16 on another thread

Before you accuse me of being evasive and/or not providing evidence for my claims try and do a better job of getting your facts straight

NOTE TO THE MODS - without some sort of intervention I see this thread getting very ugly, but as long as my detractors toss cheap and unfounded insults at me I will respond as I see fit.

Evidence, not your enduring brand of hyperbole is the name of the game.

On this occasion you have evidenced your assertion. Thank you for that.

The following characteristic display of false modesty, however, should fall on deaf ears.

I am sure it will.

[Mark Stapleton]

Mark and I have sharp ideological differences and he seems to have been particularly bothered that I challenged him to document a wild claim.

Scuse me?

What wild claim? If you're alluding to the Fisher/Ford issue, then I don't think there's anything wild about it.

Could a wealthy, influential and generous donor to the Republican Party influence and control a feeble-minded mediocrity like Ford, also from Michigan? More of a certainty than a wild claim, imo.

You do under the difference between 'could' and 'did'? You have been unable to produce any evidence he did.

You're in denial.

[Michael Hogan]

The Borg are a fictional pseudo-race of cyborgs depicted in Star Trek.....

Now I get it. I always thought you meant this guy: http://www.sverigeturism.se/smorgasbord/sm...orts/bborg.html

[Guest David Guyatt]

I believe the "two mohamed's" claim to be purposeful disinformation circulated to cause smoke and confusion and to discredit the otherwise embarrassing testimony of Amanda Keller.

Accoring to Daniel Hopsicker, Keller's story was sufficiently sensitive that she was intimidated into silence by the FBI.

http://www.madcowprod.com/mc6022004.html

"Mohamed Atta had an American girlfriend with whom he lived for two months in Venice, FL., a lingerie model named Amanda Keller. You haven’t heard her story because she was intimidated into silence by the FBI.

In the aftermath of the attack she spoke only a dozen words to the press: “I can't really discuss anything. I'm afraid I'll get in trouble."

***

Incredibly (cuz they think we're all stoopid), we are expected to the believe that the second Mohamed must explain things -- even though he didn't move in the same circles or have the same friends, like Wolfgang Bohringer.

http://www.madcowprod.com/mc6022004.html

"He had also embarrassed her in a night club, which turned out to be the beginning of the end. “We were at Margarita Maggie’s in Sarasota near the quay,” Amanda stated. “Angelina, Olivia, Timothy, Juergen, Sabrina, Mohamed, Wolfgang…they were all there.”

Is there any reasonable doubt that Wolfgang Bohringer and Mohamed Atta knew each other? Not according to the FBI who link him to Atta and who consider him to be a "person of interest"

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2006/s1788919.htm

"The FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigations) suspects the man behind it, Wolfgang Bohringer, may have had links with 9/11 mastermind Mohammed Atta, and has confirmed that Bohringer is "a person of interest"

One assumes that Bohringer can't tell the difference between his terrorist buddy Mohamed, and the second Mohamed who hangs out and gets photographed with cross-dressing boychicks boasting large adam's apples.

**

Of course, we must also not forget that a girl who is a stripper just can't differentiate between two different men named Mohamed.

Woudn't you know it... all A-rabs look a like when you're cuddling up and having fun.

Heck, I can barely tell them apart myself...

Mohamed Atta

The identical second Mohamed -- no discernible difference

Meanwhile:






“There were no drugs or secret meetings with terrorists... just a few young men serious about learning to fly planes.” 
                                            --Sabrina Hupfeld
 

May 3,2005 -Venice, FL. 

by Daniel Hopsicker

Disappearing The News:

The "Second" Mohamed In Venice

More than three years after the 9.11 attack, intrigue continues to swirl concerning knowledge of the terrorist hijackers movements, activities, and associates while in the U.S. preparing the assault. 

A mysterious French-Arab man resurfaced last week who authorities had dubbed the ‘5th terrorist pilot’ and a ‘Second’ Mohamed in Venice, FL. In an email, he alleged that a number of eyewitnesses, including the girl who had lived with him, had all mistaken him... for Mohamed Atta.

It was he they'd known in Venice, not the terrorist ringleader, he asserted. And he suggested the confusion might owe something to their common name, "Mohamed."

Before dismissing the claims of this supposed "Second Mohamed," we must first consider a curious story from the Sarasota Herald Tribune, which seems to back him up.

It was while reviewing his allegations that we discovered that crucial early news reports filed in Venice during the week after the attack in the local Sarasota Herald Tribune have been removed from the newspaper database Lexis-Nexis, relied on by journalists and investigators worldwide.
 

9.11 a dead issue... for Goldbugs

Missing are stories reporting that Mohamed Atta was living across from the Venice Airport at the Sandpiper Apartments during the Spring of 2001, with Amanda Keller, a pink-haired American stripper.

Also at this time, as if the air was not already filled with enough intrigue for several spy novels, two more alleged European associates of Atta chose this precise moment to step forward and deny having associated with the terrorist ringleader, including a German pilot who recently filed a lawsuit against us in Katherine Harris's hometown of Sarasota, Florida.

There's nothing like having a home court advantage.

So...if the September 11th attack is a dead issue, as some allege, why the conspicuous flurry of activity?

Perhaps its a signal that there remains something of major value still hidden and waiting to be found beneath the garbled official account of the chronology and movements of terrorist ringleader Mohamed Atta.

  Read the full story here:

http://www.madcowprod.com/05022005.html

Edited March 5, 2008 by David Guyatt

[Len Colby]

I am retracting my retraction about Hopsicker indicating at times that Atta lived with Keller in May – June 2000 and May – June 2001 in others. On his site he isn’t always clear about when he thinks they lived together but at first he said 2000 but eventually decided it was 2001, in his book he says it was 2001.

For example in issue 27 he wrote:

"Atta lived with a girl named Amanda Keller during March and early April of 2000, four months before the FBI says he first entered the U.S.”

http://www.madcowprod.com/mc272004.html

In Issue 28, he wrote:

"Amanda Keller and Mohamed Atta…lived lived together in her Venice apartment during March and early April of 2000, fully four months before the FBI says Atta first entered the U.S."

www.madcowprod.com/issue28.html

“The FBI says he first entered the U.S.” June 3 2000*, “fully four months before” that would have been early February (or perhaps late January), thus his math skills leave something to be desired or he was confused about when Atta was supposed to have arrived. Moved in “two weeks” after “mid-March” which would be the end of that month or the beginning of the next.

* http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/special/0205/chapter3.htm

In issue 29 he moved the relationship back a few weeks but his math is still off, (as previously quoted) he wrote:

"Sometime in the middle of March of the year 2000 Amanda Keller rented an apartment at the Sandpiper Apartments across the street from the Venice Airport…Two weeks later terrorist ringleader Mohamed Atta moved in with her, beginning a bumpy relationship which came to a stormy end six weeks later with Amanda dumping his two suitcases and one gym bag from her second floor balcony down onto the building's asphalt parking lot."

“this…took place a full three months before the FBI says Atta first arrived in the U.S”

http://www.madcowprod.com/issue29.html

Issue 30, which came out September 27 2004, was the last one he indicated the lived together in 2000. That was the same one where he wrote about them renting the house from the LaConca’s “in February of 2001”. Towards the end he wrote:

“It is clear that Keller, who settled into her new Venice apartment just two weeks before Atta moved in with her, for what neighbors said was a very stormy six-week stay, had a back-stage pass to the activities of the terrorist conspiracy, and a behind-the-scenes view of the terrorist ringleader known to the other cadre principals as "the boss" from the time he first hit the ground in Venice, in March of 2000, three months before the FBI’s chronology has him entering the U.S., to, at least, February 2001, almost a year later.”

http://www.madcowprod.com/issue30.html

Perhaps by issue 33 which is dated November 14 2004 he was having doubts he wrote, “The two shared an apartment together for two months across the street from the Venice Airport.” But never mentioned when.

http://www.madcowprod.com/issue33.html

By March 20, 2005 he had changed his mind, “Amanda Keller…lived with Atta during March and April of 2001”

http://www.madcowprod.com/issue40.html

I found an online version of Hopsicker’s book* he indicated in the intro and elswhere it was 2001. I’m not sure if ever said after Seprtember 27, 2004 that they lived together in 2000 or said before March 20, 2005 that it was in 2001, other than issue 33 he didn’t mention the relationship in editions 31 - 39. Nowhere on the pages of the site or chapters of the book I’ve read (up to #5) does he acknowledge the change. Thus he has left several pages of his site with uncorrected information that he knows to be false, and complains about the integrity of the “mainstream media”

* http://www.american-buddha.com/911.welcome...rorlandhop1.htm

[Len Colby]

A few questions for David Peter, Mike and anyone else that believes Keller’s (twice retracted) claim that her “Mohamed” was Atta.

Why would Atta who spoke fluent German and lived in Germany off and on for 8 years claim to be French, when we have no indication he had ever been to the country or even spoke the language?

Whaddyathink? He was a narcotics smuggler/dealer who consorted with criminals...

Not a real answer if he ran into someone who lived in France or spoke the language his “cover” would have been blown. It would have been a lot easier and more logical to say he was from or had lived in Germany, especially since that’s what he told people at the flight school across the street. See if you can rationalize a better reason why he said he was French.

And of course the only evidence you have that “he was a narcotics smuggler/dealer who consorted with criminals” was the uncorroborated say so of someone who changed her story and recanted it twice.

How do you explain the huge discrepancy between how he was described by people who knew him 1992 – 9 in Hamburg and the way he was described by Keller (and to a lesser extent others) who knew him 2000 – 1?

He was a narcotics smuggler/dealer who consorted with criminals... People who use coke have mood swings...

Yes cokeheads can have mood swings from one moment to the next but that’s not what we’re talking about. He had one consistent personality, let’s call it “Atta” from 1992 - 9 in Germany, the only change was that over time he became more an more religious, seemed to maintain that personality when he was at Huffman July – December 20, 2000) then suddenly by February 21 2001 had changed into “Mohamed” a completely different persona.

How do you explain that the description given by the student at Huffman was close to that of the one given by the Germans? How do you explain the other discrepancies between the “two” (height, skin, date of commercial license, claimed to be from France and have son there).

Another example the LaConca’s said “Mohamed” was “very polite”, Dru Voss Atta and Shehhi’s initial landlady at the flight school “evicted [them] due to rudeness” according to a journalist who spoke to them.

You switch between being polite one moment and then very rude the next.

Maybe you're Mohamed Atta?

When people are polite to me generally I’m polite to them, you on the other hand are consistently “very rude” to me but occasionally are reasonably polite, can we infer you do coke and/or are a sociopath?

But you avoid addressing the discrepancies between Atta and the descriptions of “Mohamed’s” apperence given by the LaConca’s, Keller’s mom and her sister.

I split my reply in 2 because it was too big for the forum's software

[Len Colby]

Another journalist who spoke to her wrote “Dru Voss said the men…were very secretive, claiming to be from Germany” and quoted her as saying "I didn't really care for their attitude, their personality was nothing to care for. They kept to themselves." (In this version they got booted for being slobs)

Yup, sounds like someone who uses/deals in drugs.

True it does, but it sounds much more like “Atta” than “Mohamed”

Voss’ description matches that of Atta’s roommates in Hamburg they “were "so aggravated" with Atta, who almost never cleaned, seldom washed dishes, and such behavior. Atta would walk in and out of a room "without acknowledging anyone else in it". His roommates described Atta's personality as "complete, almost aggressive insularity"

Yup, sounds like someone who uses/deals in drugs.

Drugs perhaps but not coke, such sloth would more likely be tied to heroin, downers or even pot. As you pointed out coke is a stimulant that often fueled financial whiz kids etc. The only way I could see a cokehead acting like that was if he was completely addled by his addiction yet Atta at this time got the highest possible grade on his master’s thesis, earned a multi-engine commercial pilots liscence, learned to fly a 727 simulator among other feats. Also Atta in Hamburg wouldn’t even drink water out of a glass that had been used to drink beer.

Doesn’t Keller omitting she was back with “Mohamed” in February 2001 after she claimed to have last seen him after a bitter breakup (including public humiliation and killing of pets) in mid June 2000 further undermine her credibility?

My advice is to stay well away from credibility issues ---- you're not exactly in a position to climb up the high moral ground mountain and shout down righteously at those below -- what with the various factual errors, misstatements, word spinning/slanting and other unpleasant contrivances which pepper your posts on this and other threads.

Just my two cents though... since you asked.

Nice example of aversion, my credibility is irrelevant to the question asked. She said “Mohamed” was “Atta” then took it back, then reaffirmed it then said she was lying again. This is your star witness.

Yes I made some errors, most of which I found and corrected myself, compare that to your “ally” who falsely accused me of misquoting him, was shown to be wrong but refused to admit error. As for YOUR credibility see my next post.

[Len Colby]

I believe the "two mohamed's" claim to be purposeful disinformation circulated to cause smoke and confusion and to discredit the otherwise embarrassing testimony of Amanda Keller.

Be patient David, more on this to come

Accoring to Daniel Hopsicker, Keller's story was sufficiently sensitive that she was intimidated into silence by the FBI.

http://www.madcowprod.com/mc6022004.html

"Mohamed Atta had an American girlfriend with whom he lived for two months in Venice, FL., a lingerie model named Amanda Keller. You haven’t heard her story because she was intimidated into silence by the FBI.

In the aftermath of the attack she spoke only a dozen words to the press: “I can't really discuss anything. I'm afraid I'll get in trouble."

Yeah, so says Keller who has retracted her story twice (at least) and changed critical details and is contradicted at times by her supporting witnesses. The dozen word thing is Hopsicker BS. The quote came from an article in which she spoke to reporters from the paper.

http://www.madcowprod.com/4thpilot.htm

Incredibly (cuz they think we're all stoopid), we are expected to the believe that the second Mohamed must explain things -- even though he didn't move in the same circles or have the same friends, like Wolfgang Bohringer.

http://www.madcowprod.com/mc6022004.html

"He had also embarrassed her in a night club, which turned out to be the beginning of the end. “We were at Margarita Maggie’s in Sarasota near the quay,” Amanda stated. “Angelina, Olivia, Timothy, Juergen, Sabrina, Mohamed, Wolfgang…they were all there.”

It’s quite funny that you brought up this supposed incident. Keller went on to relate how she broke up with Atta and hooked up with her “new” boyfriend Garret that same night:

“I was up there with a whole bunch of other girls and Angelina. And this cute guy was dancing right below us, and the light was hitting him, and he had this long beautiful hair, and he looked at me, and I got real embarrassed."

The 'cute guy's name was Garret, we heard.

[…]

“He (Garret) wrapped his shirt around my legs and was dirty dancing with me”

[…]

“He [Mohamed] asked me about Garret, saying, 'Who's that?"'

"And I said, 'I guess he's the new one.'…”

That night Amanda went home with her new beau. Things were never the same between her and Atta again.

[…]

One night soon after meeting Garret, the 'hot new guy', she brought him back to the apartment. She told Atta he could deal with it. He could move out.

The hot new guy was sleeping over. The hot new guy was in the 'big bed.' Atta was on the couch. After discussing what she should do with the apartment house manager, who corroborated her story, Amanda Keller unceremoniously dumped Atta's three suitcases and Gold's gym bag onto the parking lot underneath their second floor apartment, and called him a cab.

To make a long story short she said she lived with Atta 3 – 6 weeks then dumped him and hooked up with Garret, let Atta spend a few nights on the sofa then kicked him out. But that wasn’t the story she always told. From local newspaper a few days after the attacks:

"In a telephone interview late Friday, Keller said she met Atta through a friend and let him stay in the apartment with her and her then-boyfriend, Garrett Metts, because she felt sorry for him."

http://www.madcowprod.com/4thpilot.htm

Keller and even her mother confirmed this version of events in a September 23rd article subtitled “"Mohammed" slept on her couch, a Venice woman says”:

“Susan Payne, Keller's mother, said her daughter and then-boyfriend Garrett Metts often took in strangers at her apartment.

The two were popular, Payne said, and people often stayed there after nights of partying and visiting the clubs.

Mohammed, Tammy Payne said, often went out clubbing, usually at Margarita Maggie's in Sarasota.

In an interview at her mother's house, Keller wouldn't talk about the man who stayed on her couch.”

http://www.madcowprod.com/fifthpilot.htm

So Keller now has three or four versions of events depending on how you count.

• 1st she said she let Atta stay on her couch while she was living with Metts (conveniently dead by 9/11).
  
• Then she said it wasn’t Atta but someone else named Mohamed.
  
• Then she same back with an even juicier story, she was having an affair with Atta but dumped to live with Metts.
  
• Finally she went back to the 2nd version and said she’d lied it really wasn’t Atta after all. AFAIK she hasn’t been heard from since
  

.

So back to the Bohringer story, do you have any evidence other than the uncorroborated word of someone who changed her story at least three times, admitted to lying about it and was busted for passing a bad checks {or checks}, that they hung out together? Oh my, it looks like you think you do!

Is there any reasonable doubt that Wolfgang Bohringer and Mohamed Atta knew each other? Not according to the FBI who link him to Atta and who consider him to be a "person of interest"

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2006/s1788919.htm

"The FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigations) suspects the man behind it, Wolfgang Bohringer, may have had links with 9/11 mastermind Mohammed Atta, and has confirmed that Bohringer is "a person of interest"

No “reasonable doubt” “according to the FBI” Messr. Guyatt do you not understand the meaning of the words “suspect” and “may”. Odd that the Australian radio news anchor, thousands of miles from Kiribati the archipelago nation where the story takes place, didn’t tell his listeners who said the FBI suspected the Geman was tied to Atta or what such suspicion was based on.

The New Zeeland correspondent in Auckland (closer but still thousands of miles away) who reported the story provided a clue but curiously Mr. Guyatt omitted that part:(from your link)

PETER LEWIS: The plot thickened when Kiribati officials became aware of Bohringer's close connections with a US flight school used by 9/11 mastermind Mohammed Atta.

About the same time, Kiribati President Anote Tong was briefed by the FBI on its suspicions and its concerns that small neighbouring countries like Kiribati were soft touches for terrorists.

ANOTE TONG: I think it may put onus on the countries that would be threatened to assist us in providing that security. I think it is in their interest.

It sounds like Tong was the source of the tidbit that “Kiribati officials became aware of Bohringer's close connections with” Hufman and that the FBI told him about their concerns that terrorists might want to operate out of countries like his. If they were told this “about the same time” it follows that the “officials” got their information elsewhere. The part about the FBI suspecting he “may have had links with” Atta it seems was the anchor’s (mis)interpretation, nothing in the correspondent’s reporting supports that conclusion. In any case the suspicion seems to be based on something that no one disputes, Bohringer was associated with the owner of Huffman Aviation when Atta and other hijackers took lessons there. It’s not all surprising that the FBI would be interested in anyone trying to set up an airport in such a remote location especially if even less that half of Hopsicker’s accusations of his involvement with mobsters and various scams are true.

So how did the Kiribatians find out about Bohringer’s ties to Huffman? Apparently through Hopsicker’s website! Some time after the German arrived it seems some locals became suspicious. Though supposedly the island has no telecommunications or electricity Hopsicker claims “alarmed local residents contacted The MadCowMorningNews about the German pilot”. It seem that it was nothing more than a variation of a self-fulfilling prophecy, a self-confirming Internet rumor.

http://www.madcowprod.com/09152006.html

So some super savvy islanders had solar-powered satellite serviced notebooks (or went to the nearest island with internet service) and Googled Bohringer’s name and found Hopsicker’s site. There they learned about Bohringer’s “close connections” to Atta’s school and Hopsicker’s accusations. How much of a stretch is it to imagine they notified “Kiribati officials”? Or perhaps the officials did this on their own. In the news article David linked the president said he was suspicious of the German. Other than asking for help from other countries just about the only way officials from a tiny, isolated and poor country like Kiribati have to investigate a foreigner is the Internet. Even today if you Google the German’s name most hits are to Hopsicker or people citing him. Essentially Hopsicker is interpreting a retelling of his reporting as confirmation of it.

David wrote:

"One assumes that Bohringer can't tell the difference between his terrorist buddy Mohamed, and the second Mohamed who hangs out and gets photographed with cross-dressing boychicks boasting large adam's apples.

**

Of course, we must also not forget that a girl who is a stripper just can't differentiate between two different men named Mohamed."

Two strawmen, AFAIK neither Bohringer nor anyone but Keller ever said he hung out with Atta. And no one is saying she couldn’t tell the difference, she said herself that she had lied.

Funny that you should mention the photo of the “2nd Mohammed/5th pilot” being pawed by the transvestites. That sounds a lot more like the “Mohamed” Keller described than the “Atta” described by people we know knew him Hamburg and Venice.

Funnier still is that you omitted the following passage from the page you got it from. Quoting the e-mail Mohamed Arakji sent him:

“Amanda mentions transvestites in Key West, my friend got grabbed by a group of them in the street, as it was funny, I took a picture as well"

In other words they guy in the photo isn’t him it’s his friend. What was that you were saying about my credibility?

Hopsicker got confused about that too and labeled the photo “Atta Double”, so maybe “all A-rabs look a like” after all.

http://www.madcowprod.com/05022005.html

Arakji did however send a photo of himself that Hopsicker doesn’t think looks like Atta either but they aren’t that different. If we are to believe Hopsicker they were together at the Sandpiper for around 6 weeks perhaps starting around April 1 (the international day of lying) but one of the sources he cites, the building manager it was “for about three weeks in April”. Thus the 2 – 3 witness from the building would have seen him off and on for 3 (or was that 6?) weeks and then 4 or 5 months later seen a photo on TV, not exactly conclusive. Also there are contradictions in the supporting witness accounts but I’ll get into that in a later post.

Looking at the photos now we have two advantages 1) we can look at photos of both men at the same time and 2) we know they are different people. Two big differences are that the Arakji photo is a full body shot and he is relaxed and the Atta photo is just a head shot from his visa photo. There are numerous jokes about people’s lack of resemblance to their driver’s license, presumably the same is true of visa photos, especially for someone on a suicide mission.

One can’t also underestimate the power of suggestion. The people at the building occasionally ran into an Arab studying at Huffman named Mohamed who was staying at Keller’s apartment. Then they find out that an Arab who studied at Huffman named Mohamed was one of the pilots.

"Woudn't you know it... all A-rabs look a like when you're cuddling up and having fun.

Heck, I can barely tell them apart myself..."

See above and Google “cross racial identification” it seems like all too often to white witnesses “all (minority group of your choice) look a like”, more on that to come as well.

[Guest David Guyatt]

Yeah, so says Keller who has retracted her story twice (at least)

***

I am retracting my retraction about Hopsicker indicating at times that Atta lived with Keller in May

[Len Colby]

Yeah, so says Keller who has retracted her story twice (at least)

***

I am retracting my retraction about Hopsicker indicating at times that Atta lived with Keller in May

These aren’t comparable situations; Keller was talking about events from her own life not trying to sort out the claims of an author who contradicts himself without any clarification.

Keller’s tale has four different versions and she told different stories about how she met “Mohamed” and where she was working at the time. I made a correct observation about Hopsicker contradicting himself but unfortunately chose the wrong example to back my claim, I caught the error and retracted the claim. Doing more research I discovered that I was right all along.

From my blog:

Where did Keller meet Atta and where did she work at the time?

Story # 1a – She met him at the airport bar, was as an out-call 'lingerie model' / escort.

From issue 27 of the Mad Cow Morning News (Hopsicker’s newsletter)

“During her year-long sojourn in Venice Amanda Keller was a willowy 20-year old bleached-blond, who met Atta at a bar at the airport, the 44th Aero Squadron), was an out-call 'lingerie model' for an escort service called Fantasies & Lace in nearby Sarasota, not far from Cheetah's, a nearby strip club Atta is known to have frequented .

http://www.madcowprod.com/mc272004.html

From issue 29 of the Mad Cow Morning News

"She told us she met him at the bar at the 44th Aero," states Frederickson [Keller’s next door neighbor]. "They were remodeling and the 44th Aero wasn't open yet, but the bar was still doing business."

"That's when she started dressing really slutty, and dyeing her hair pink," Frederickson continues

http://www.madcowprod.com/issue29.html

Story # 1b – She was as an out-call 'lingerie model' / escort. Possibly met him at a strip club where she worked.

From Chapter 1 of Hopsicker’s book Welcome to Terrorland

“When she 'hooked-up' with Atta, Amanda Keller was a willowy 20 year-old 'lingerie model' and stripper with spiky pink hair. She worked nights for an escort service called Fantasies & Lingerie which catered to a mixed crowd of politicians, judges, high-rollers and socialites of both sexes, just down the street from Cheetah's, a strip club Atta was known to frequent in nearby Sarasota.”

He didn’t say where they met but tells us 1) she was a stripper and escort, 2) Atta frequented a strip club close to the escort service she worked for. Call me crazy me he seems to be implying they met at “Cheetah’s”.

www.madcowprod.com/01.pdf

Story # 2a – She met him at Papa John’s Pizza when she was the manager, became and escort soon after that:

From Chapter 5 of Hopsicker’s book Welcome to Terrorland :

“Keller was a restaurant manager when she met Atta, she will tell us later. Before she switched to a more lucrative line of work, she managed the local Papa John's. And it is there she first met Atta, which is why -- two days after the attack -- the FBI was looking for Amanda Keller ...”

It is interesting to note that Hopsicker completely contradicted himself in chapters 1 and 5 without even seeming to notice.

Story # 2b She met him at Papa John’s Pizza where she worked, was the manager at the time or was later promoted to manager with in a few months, seems to still have been the manager until shortly before 9/11.

A September 14, 2001 article in the Sun-Herald recounted that Florida state police visited Tony and Vonnie LaConca the previous day because on February 21, 2001 they rented a house for one week to Amanda Keller and “Mohamed”, they suspected that Mohamed was Mohamed Atta:

“Keller, who allegedly met Mohamed while working at Papa John's Pizza in Venice, told the couple [the LaConca’s] she would translate because Mohamed spoke limited English

[…]

A Papa John's employee confirmed that Keller was a manager there, but has not been to work for some time.”

http://www.sun-herald.com/NewsArchive2/091401/tp4ch14.htm

Presumably she told the Laconca’s that she “met Mohamed while working at Papa John's Pizza” because they said she did all the talking.

Hopsicker could argue that versions 2a and 2b don’t contradict each other but the newspaper article seemed to indicate she was a manager there till not longer before 9/11. Hopsicker tells us she was an escort during their relationship, most of it from the sounds of it. They were together by February 21 and depending on which version you want to believe they broke up sometime in April or early – mid May. While one can’t infer too much from an indirect quote it’s hard to believe that if she hadn’t been in for 5 – 6 months the employee would still she was a manager there even if they said she had “not been to work for some time.”

But Amanda isn’t alone in making contradictory comments. All three of her named supporting witnesses contradict themselves and/or her story. But that will have to wait till next time

[Len Colby]

I've uncovered overwhelming evidence in support of the 2nd Mohamed theory and even made contact with him (Mohamed Arakji) more on both developments in the next few days.

[Guest David Guyatt]

When people are polite to me generally I’m polite to them, you on the other hand are consistently “very rude” to me but occasionally are reasonably polite, can we infer you do coke and/or are a sociopath?

Not a cokehead or sociopath, no. This just reflects my impatience with self-aggrandizing individuals who lack objectivity, who spin like Snow White's wicked witch and who willingly abandon the basic ethics of social honesty.

I've made this plain to you many, many times, as you know (directly and without animosity) -- but am not in the least bit surprised that these comments have not only been twisted to suit current purposes, but also are shed off you like water off a duck's back .

Quack quack.

[Guest David Guyatt]

Odd that the Australian radio news anchor, thousands of miles from Kiribati the archipelago nation where the story takes place, didn’t tell his listeners who said the FBI suspected the Geman was tied to Atta or what such suspicion was based on.

I guess the radio host didn't know you were going to be picking over his broadcast, eh? I suspect he wouldn't care very much if he did know either.

But what's "odd" about it?

What it is, in fact, is another example of your astonishing contorted logic fallacies (you really must get away for a few weeks from conspiracy theories --- the whacky one are beginning to seep into you). The fact is that most media broadcasts (minor reports that are not the top stories of the day) are given a very brief slot due to time sensitivity and this usually means that supporting info is not part of the reports. Sad but true. News is mostly crap these days.

Don't take it personally.

The New Zeeland correspondent in Auckland (closer but still thousands of miles away) who reported the story provided a clue but curiously Mr. Guyatt omitted that part:(from your link)

PETER LEWIS: The plot thickened when Kiribati officials became aware of Bohringer's close connections with a US flight school used by 9/11 mastermind Mohammed Atta.

About the same time, Kiribati President Anote Tong was briefed by the FBI on its suspicions and its concerns that small neighbouring countries like Kiribati were soft touches for terrorists.

ANOTE TONG: I think it may put onus on the countries that would be threatened to assist us in providing that security. I think it is in their interest.

It sounds like Tong was the source of the tidbit that “Kiribati officials became aware of Bohringer's close connections with” Hufman and that the FBI told him about their concerns that terrorists might want to operate out of countries like his. If they were told this “about the same time” it follows that the “officials” got their information elsewhere. The part about the FBI suspecting he “may have had links with” Atta it seems was the anchor’s (mis)interpretation, nothing in the correspondent’s reporting supports that conclusion. In any case the suspicion seems to be based on something that no one disputes, Bohringer was associated with the owner of Huffman Aviation when Atta and other hijackers took lessons there. It’s not all surprising that the FBI would be interested in anyone trying to set up an airport in such a remote location especially if even less that half of Hopsicker’s accusations of his involvement with mobsters and various scams are true.

So how did the Kiribatians find out about Bohringer’s ties to Huffman? Apparently through Hopsicker’s website! Some time after the German arrived it seems some locals became suspicious. Though supposedly the island has no telecommunications or electricity Hopsicker claims “alarmed local residents contacted The MadCowMorningNews about the German pilot”. It seem that it was nothing more than a variation of a self-fulfilling prophecy, a self-confirming Internet rumor.

I could help you out here, because I know the whole background to this (and not from Daniel either). But I can't. Sorry. It's confidential. There are parts to this story that have not been published and I doubt ever will be.

However, I bet if you phoned and asked the NY Joint Task Force on Terrorism about this, you too would become a "person of interest'.

Even today if you Google the German’s name [bohringer] most hits are to Hopsicker or people citing him.

It is true that almost all the available reports about Wolfgang Bohringer originate with Hopsicker. Despite Mr. Colby's distorted, reckless and uninformed opinion (and it is simply opinion, spin and poor analysis), this should strike a chord of alarm in many of us. That no major media outlet has picked up and run with the Bohringer story speaks volumes, I think.

Essentially Hopsicker is interpreting a retelling of his reporting as confirmation of it.

Untrue. It is you who are interpreting Hopsicker's telling of the story. And distorting it badly in the process, too.

You have no idea and are truly clueless.

Which is Par for the course, in my opinion.

See above and Google “cross racial identification” it seems like all too often to white witnesses “all (minority group of your choice) look a like”, more on that to come as well.

Please God, wrap me in your big, big arms and protect me from the coming avalanche of densely written, repetitive, contorted logic, gobbledegook pseudo-scientific nonsense.

I'll pray more often if you do.

Honest.

[Len Colby]

David, The two Mohameds look like twins to me....[not!]...but one has learned the Dracula 'look' in his eyes.

I guessed you missed it Peter but the man in the photo isn't the other Mohamed but a friend of his. From his e-mail to Hopsicker as quoted by the Florida "journalist"

“Amanda mentions transvestites in Key West, my friend got grabbed by a group of them in the street, as it was funny, I took a picture as well"

I'm in touch with the guy he told me (no kidding) that his friend's name is Peter. Perhaps that's you in the photo!

[Len Colby]

Odd that the Australian radio news anchor, thousands of miles from Kiribati the archipelago nation where the story takes place, didn’t tell his listeners who said the FBI suspected the Geman was tied to Atta or what such suspicion was based on.

I guess the radio host didn't know you were going to be picking over his broadcast, eh? I suspect he wouldn't care very much if he did know either.

But what's "odd" about it?

What it is, in fact, is another example of your astonishing contorted logic fallacies (you really must get away for a few weeks from conspiracy theories --- the whacky one are beginning to seep into you). The fact is that most media broadcasts (minor reports that are not the top stories of the day) are given a very brief slot due to time sensitivity and this usually means that supporting info is not part of the reports. Sad but true. News is mostly crap these days.

Don't take it personally.

The New Zeeland correspondent in Auckland (closer but still thousands of miles away) who reported the story provided a clue but curiously Mr. Guyatt omitted that part:(from your link)

PETER LEWIS: The plot thickened when Kiribati officials became aware of Bohringer's close connections with a US flight school used by 9/11 mastermind Mohammed Atta.

About the same time, Kiribati President Anote Tong was briefed by the FBI on its suspicions and its concerns that small neighbouring countries like Kiribati were soft touches for terrorists.

ANOTE TONG: I think it may put onus on the countries that would be threatened to assist us in providing that security. I think it is in their interest.

It sounds like Tong was the source of the tidbit that “Kiribati officials became aware of Bohringer's close connections with” Hufman and that the FBI told him about their concerns that terrorists might want to operate out of countries like his. If they were told this “about the same time” it follows that the “officials” got their information elsewhere. The part about the FBI suspecting he “may have had links with” Atta it seems was the anchor’s (mis)interpretation, nothing in the correspondent’s reporting supports that conclusion. In any case the suspicion seems to be based on something that no one disputes, Bohringer was associated with the owner of Huffman Aviation when Atta and other hijackers took lessons there. It’s not all surprising that the FBI would be interested in anyone trying to set up an airport in such a remote location especially if even less that half of Hopsicker’s accusations of his involvement with mobsters and various scams are true.

So how did the Kiribatians find out about Bohringer’s ties to Huffman? Apparently through Hopsicker’s website! Some time after the German arrived it seems some locals became suspicious. Though supposedly the island has no telecommunications or electricity Hopsicker claims “alarmed local residents contacted The MadCowMorningNews about the German pilot”. It seem that it was nothing more than a variation of a self-fulfilling prophecy, a self-confirming Internet rumor.

I could help you out here, because I know the whole background to this (and not from Daniel either). But I can't. Sorry. It's confidential. There are parts to this story that have not been published and I doubt ever will be.

However, I bet if you phoned and asked the NY Joint Task Force on Terrorism about this, you too would become a "person of interest'.

Even today if you Google the German’s name [bohringer] most hits are to Hopsicker or people citing him.

It is true that almost all the available reports about Wolfgang Bohringer originate with Hopsicker. Despite Mr. Colby's distorted, reckless and uninformed opinion (and it is simply opinion, spin and poor analysis), this should strike a chord of alarm in many of us. That no major media outlet has picked up and run with the Bohringer story speaks volumes, I think.

Essentially Hopsicker is interpreting a retelling of his reporting as confirmation of it.

Untrue. It is you who are interpreting Hopsicker's telling of the story. And distorting it badly in the process, too.

You have no idea and are truly clueless.

Which is Par for the course, in my opinion.

See above and Google “cross racial identification” it seems like all too often to white witnesses “all (minority group of your choice) look a like”, more on that to come as well.

Please God, wrap me in your big, big arms and protect me from the coming avalanche of densely written, repetitive, contorted logic, gobbledegook pseudo-scientific nonsense.

I'll pray more often if you do.

Honest.

In others words I'm wrong but you can't really say why. Compelling post!