Don McGovern and the Marilyn Myths

[Michael Griffith]

4 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Jim share with everyone.  How did she consume 47 pills without water and without vomiting?  I know in Fantasyland certain rules do not apply but I can assure you that you need to answer this point-which your quote of others work does not.  Hence why I stated what I did about your reply.  

Yes, indeed. There is also the fact that Marilyn's housekeeper said that Marilyn was upbeat the last time she saw her that day (before RFK and Lawson came over). Nothing in her behavior in the weeks leading up to her death indicated that she was thinking about killing herself. Her career was on the rebound. She had just gone shopping for new furniture for the house she had recently bought. These are not the normal actions of a suicidal person. 

I should add that Dorothy Kilgallen was aware that Marilyn was dating RFK. She dropped an obvious hint of their relationship in one of her columns shortly before Marilyn died. (I guess this is why the love-struck McGovern viciously attacks Dorothy.)

Edited October 31, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[Pat Speer]

7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

 

Anyone who can read can see that both Wecht and Stephens explained specifically what happened to the pills and they are in quotes.

To be clear, Wecht deferred to Noguchi, as he did on RFK, correct?

[Pat Speer]

7 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Jim share with everyone.  How did she consume 47 pills without water and without vomiting?  I know in Fantasyland certain rules do not apply but I can assure you that you need to answer this point-which your quote of others work does not.  Hence why I stated what I did about your reply.  

This was covered in Noguchi's book. He even ran tests to see if it made sense. Now, one might doubt Noguchi if he had a history of toeing the line. But he didn't. He pissed everyone off, especially when his report on RFK's murder suggested there was more to it than Sirhan. 

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks Pat.

That disposes of that question, as we do not know how quickly they were all taken either do we?

But the original question about the stomach and digestion, was also replied to by Stephens and Wecht, as they said the toxic materials had passed through to the liver.

This proves two points:  that the bodily processes were still proceeding, until about 2 AM, and the pills had  passed through; and also the pills had been ingested, not injected. Stephens said that an injection would have shown more of the toxic material in the blood and less in the liver. (McGovern, pp. 494-95)

[James DiEugenio]

Let me sum up my ideas about the MM case vs the JFK case.

I would wager that no one has studied the latter case as much as I have for the last 15-20 years.

I am not that proficient on the MM case, but I have done a lot or reading and study on it of late, say the last two years.  In preparation for a long essay I will be publishing at K and K.

The two cases are cognitively and forensically opposed to each other.

In the JFK case, the longer you study it, the worse it gets, and the more obvious the evidence for a conspiracy and cover up becomes delineated.  And you can actually locate how and where and when the latter happened: Hoover and  Commission e.g. with Sandy Styles and CE 399.

In the MM case, the longer you study it, the more you realize the contrary.  Namely that MM had a lot of problems emotionally.  She had three psychoanalysts in six years, one put her in a sanitarium in New York.  She had been married and divorced three times by the time she was 35. She never met her father.  She only met her sister when she was 15.  She did not like Hollywood. Which is why she tried to create her own company. And there had been four prior attempts to take her own life.  See if you find this material in Slatzer or Capell.

What you find in these cheapjack books can methodically be disposed of because they are based largely on BS.  Some examples: there was go glass in the bedroom, when in fact there was one and there was a police photo of it.  That somehow Murray was using the washer dryer that night, when according to McGovern, MM did not have a set since she sent out all her clothes to the cleaners. That MM was really found in a different  rec room, when in fact there was no bed in that room.  That MM was killed by Greenson with a hypo in the chest, when in fact Noguchi examined the body for those kinds of hypo injections.  That RFK was in Brentwood that day, when in fact photos, witness testimony and newspaper stories prove he was in the SF area.

I could go on and on.  But there was been a reaction, by people like McGovern, to all of this nutty rigamarole that tries to make hay out of the  personal tragedy of MM.  And tries to make RFK into something he simply was not.  Two of the worst culprits were Slatzer and Heymann.  Slatzer began his first book with MM saying that 1.) Bobby was going to marry her and 2.) Bobby had been part of Murder Inc and this was how he got involved with the plots to kill Castro.

Heymann ended up saying that RFK had been to Brentwood on the day MM died, not just once, but twice.

Who can believe such balderdash?  But people do and apparently some people on this board buy into this junk. And also, Mark Shaw.

Edited October 31, 2023 by James DiEugenio