Reconstruction of the shots in the Tippit killing

[Bill Brown]

13 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

What difference does it make how far it was from Acquilla Clemons, if she saw it? All that matters is she tells of seeing an interchange, and Callaway and the killer then went opposite directions in the directions she gestured and told in words: the killer south on Patton, Callaway east on Tenth (after north on Patton). Unless you are arguing that Acquilla Clemons did not see anything, she had to have seen something in accord with known movements of known persons, and Callaway is the one person at the Tippit crime scene seen running east on Tenth. Your objection becomes reduces to a criticism that Acquilla Clemons could not have referred to Callaway running east on Tenth because if it was Callaway she saw, you require Clemons to have described it in cumbersome manner such as, "first he ran north on Patton, then he went straight down Tenth", instead of Clemons' shorter and simpler, "he went straight down Tenth". What Clemons says of the second man is what Callaway did do, following an opposite-sides-of-street shouted exchange with the gunman just as Clemons described. You have offered no suggestion of anyone other than Callaway that Clemons could have seen running east on Tenth following a Callaway-like interaction with the gunman. In the absence of any good alternative, I consider the matter settled that Acquilla Clemons' second man was Callaway. 

Again, Clemons stated the other man went "straight down Tenth Street that way"; nothing about the other man first having to trek three-fourths of a block up Patton before reaching Tenth.

 

You are free to consider the matter settled all you wish, but that means nothing.

 

[Greg Doudna]

24 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

Again, Clemons stated the other man went "straight down Tenth Street that way"; nothing about the other man first having to trek three-fourths of a block up Patton before reaching Tenth.

You are free to consider the matter settled all you wish, but that means nothing.

OK! I will 🙂 . Because it is the only reading of Acquilla Clemons' testimony that makes sense. 

And after all the attempts from me to get a straight answer out of you, you are still not going to put any cards on the table of your own as to just what and whom you suppose Acquilla Clemons saw, if not Callaway? 

Are you proposing some phantom non-Callaway person, like an Invisible Man, that only Acquilla Clemons saw running east on Tenth and no one else saw? Clarify? 

[Michael Kalin]

On 8/27/2022 at 2:47 PM, Greg Doudna said:

I think four things support Doris Holan was home when Tippit was killed. First, Lad Jr. says "I don't remember" (her not being home). Second, Myers showed that at 1:45 pm her car was photographed parked on Patton near her apartment that day but then a later photograph by 4:15 pm showed her car was not in the earlier parked position,  indicating her car in front of where she lived had been moved some time between 1:45 pm and 4:15 pm that day. That prima facie suggests she was home, to account for her car having been driven away in that time frame. Third, the account transmitted via Brownlow and Pulte in which Mrs. Holan said she was home, heard the shots, looked out and saw, etc.--not to be taken in every detail the way Brownlow/Pulte retold it, but rather as a garbled account of Mrs. Holan telling some story of what she saw that day from the perspective of where she lived on the second story at 113-1/2 S. Patton.

And fourth and finally, the story of Mrs. Holan's youngest son, a 10-year old, quoted by Brownlow and Pulte, the story of his having bicycled west on Tenth to the scene of the Tippit cruiser and seeing his mother there, and then the story of him telling his mother of hearing about a stabbing at 12th and Marsalis or 10th and Marsalis. The story is an independent support for Doris Holan being home that day, then going to the scene of the Tippit cruiser. (Incidentally, on the fight/stabbing story of the 10-yr. old Holan boy, a while ago I figured out that that was nothing other than a hearsay version of the ambulance taking away Tippit, which the boy had heard someone tell somewhere else before he arrived to the Tippit scene and saw and told his mother. That is why there is no police record or evidence of any fight or stabbing at 10th and Marsalis just about the same exact time Tippit was shot--it was another version of the same thing, the Tippit slaying and removal by ambulance, as the news spread like wildfire through hearsay in the neighborhood with garbling thereof.)

1. Lad said, in its entirety, “I don’t remember. I don’t think she was home. I really don’t.”
2. Prima facie case? Hardly, not that it matters, easily rebutted. It was established that Doris was often out in Bill's car.
3. Sheer fantasy.
4. Another fantasy.

Myers goes to extraordinary lengths to demonize the anonymous younger son, employing the devious practice of pitting family members against other family members without getting the whole story. The failure to discuss events with reprobate Boy Holan undercuts the saint & sinner dichotomy he strains to set up between the brothers. This failure does not prevent him from exposing Boy Holan as Pulte's informant H2. Was this general knowledge, or Myers' deduction, or did someone recently finger him outright?

A minor discrepancy exists between Lad Holan's & Benavides' respective descriptions of the alley that ran between 404 & 410 East 10th to Jefferson. Benavides told the WC,

At that time I walked out, I guess I was just scared, so I started across the street -- alley between the two houses to my mother's house, and I got in the yard and said I'd better go back, or just caught myself until I got over there, I guess, so I went back around there. [6H449]

The mother lived on Jefferson, and this testimony indicates passage by foot was possible. Autos may have been prevented from driving through.

What's needed at this point is that somebody with no ax to grind interviews Boy Holan. Who knows? Boy might turn the tables on Lad. After all the saint ran a neighborhood pay-phone grift, tarnishing his halo a smidgen, or Boy might provide sufficient corroboration to effectively dispose of this subplot once and for all.

[Bill Brown]

13 hours ago, Michael Kalin said:

1. Lad said, in its entirety, “I don’t remember. I don’t think she was home. I really don’t.”
2. Prima facie case? Hardly, not that it matters, easily rebutted. It was established that Doris was often out in Bill's car.
3. Sheer fantasy.
4. Another fantasy.

Myers goes to extraordinary lengths to demonize the anonymous younger son, employing the devious practice of pitting family members against other family members without getting the whole story. The failure to discuss events with reprobate Boy Holan undercuts the saint & sinner dichotomy he strains to set up between the brothers. This failure does not prevent him from exposing Boy Holan as Pulte's informant H2. Was this general knowledge, or Myers' deduction, or did someone recently finger him outright?

A minor discrepancy exists between Lad Holan's & Benavides' respective descriptions of the alley that ran between 404 & 410 East 10th to Jefferson. Benavides told the WC,

At that time I walked out, I guess I was just scared, so I started across the street -- alley between the two houses to my mother's house, and I got in the yard and said I'd better go back, or just caught myself until I got over there, I guess, so I went back around there. [6H449]

The mother lived on Jefferson, and this testimony indicates passage by foot was possible. Autos may have been prevented from driving through.

What's needed at this point is that somebody with no ax to grind interviews Boy Holan. Who knows? Boy might turn the tables on Lad. After all the saint ran a neighborhood pay-phone grift, tarnishing his halo a smidgen, or Boy might provide sufficient corroboration to effectively dispose of this subplot once and for all.

There was no alley between the two houses on Tenth Street; it was simply a driveway.

[Michael Kalin]

On 8/29/2022 at 6:33 PM, Bill Brown said:

There was no alley between the two houses on Tenth Street; it was simply a driveway.

Benavides said it was an alley, but I don't intend to discuss the semantic issue of when a driveway mutates into an alley. The point is walking the path to Jefferson was possible.

More interesting is the establishment of a kind of break point in Benavides' testimony, segmenting his presence by two arrivals: first in his truck, pulled into the curb while the murder was in progress, often taken for granted but uncorroborated, severely undermined by Leavelle's "did not see suspect" -- second on foot after pausing in the yard between 404 & 410 East 10th. Given the lack of supporting evidence for #1, it's more likely #2 was his debut at the scene but not on foot. Guinyard saw him arrive by truck.

Mr. BALL. What did you see besides the police car?
Mr. GUINYARD. The police that was laying down in the front of the car.
Mr. BALL. A policeman?
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Was he dead or alive at that time?
Mr. GUINYARD. He looked like he was dead to me.
Mr. BALL. What did you do?
Mr. GUINYARD. Helped put him in the ambulance.
Mr. BALL. You stayed there until the ambulance came?
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Were you there when the truck came up that was driven by Benavides?
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. He came up right after this?
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes; he came up from the east side---going west.
[7H398]

This contradicts Benavides' WC testimony later the same day (4/2/64).