Lee Harvey Oswald's two jackets and why the Tippit killer's jacket was not one of them

[Greg Doudna]

Bill Brown and Ron Ege, I will address yours shortly, but for the moment, to all, a detail of interest found by Steve Roe: the correct spelling of Earline Roberts’ name.

We all have been spelling “Earlene” and that is the spelling used by the Warren Commission, the FBI, the reporting of Hugh Aynesworth etc. 

But as can be confirmed online, the spelling on her death certificate is “Earline”. That is the spelling used in a Dallas newspaper obituary article for her in 1966. I found census reports from 1930-1950 which used “Earline” (though one had, I assume a typo, “Erline”).

In studying these witnesses, average people by total accident caught up in events bigger than themselves, often to their grief in seeming approximate correlation to the degree they tried to tell what they could … I have felt a compassion for these witnesses, such as Earline Roberts. 

Although I have not seen confirmation of the spelling on her birth certificate, the information I have seen seems sufficient to conclude her name has been misspelled all this time, and so going forward, as a small token of postmortem respect to this witness I intend to use the correct spelling of her name: Earline. Earline Roberts, R.I.P. 

Thanks to Steve Roe for bringing this to attention.

Note added 6/8/23: Much of the above is obsolete in light of a signature of Earlene Roberts spelled "Earlene" on a handwritten affidavit of Dec 5, 1963, brought to attention by Paul Hoch (noted by David von Pein below): https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=233488#relPageId=17. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Bill Brown]

3 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Bill Brown and Ron Ege, I will address yours shortly, but for the moment, to all, a detail of interest found by Steve Roe: the correct spelling of Earline Roberts’ name.

We all have been spelling “Earlene” and that is the spelling used by the Warren Commission, the FBI, the reporting of Hugh Aynesworth etc. 

But as can be confirmed online, the spelling on her death certificate is “Earline”. That is the spelling used in a Dallas newspaper obituary article for her in 1966. I found census reports from 1930-1950 which used “Earline” (though one had, I assume a typo, “Erline”).

In studying these witnesses, average people by total accident caught up in events bigger than themselves, often to their grief in seeming approximate correlation to the degree they tried to tell what they could … I have felt a compassion for these witnesses, such as Earline Roberts. 

Although I have not seen confirmation of the spelling on her birth certificate, the information I have seen seems sufficient to conclude her name has been misspelled all this time, and so going forward, as a small token of postmortem respect to this witness I intend to use the correct spelling of her name: Earline. Earline Roberts, R.I.P. 

Thanks to Steve Roe for bringing this to attention.

 

The census report from 1930 says she and her husband have two kids, ages 7 and 4.

 

Puzzling that our Earlene didn't have kids. 

 

[Greg Doudna]

19 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

The census report from 1930 says she and her husband have two kids, ages 7 and 4.

Puzzling that our Earlene didn't have kids. 

I can't find the census reports now that I saw last night to recheck, but good point: I see Earline/Earlene testified to the Warren Commission that she had no children, so whatever census you are looking at (maybe the same I saw?) must be a different person. I wonder what her birth certificate or marriage license said. Her 1966 Dallas Morning News obituary (no children):

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337945/m1/1/ 

[Greg Doudna]

7 hours ago, Ron Ege said:

Bill and Greg,

I'm confused; not unusual for me!

Am I understanding (1) Oswald left the rooming house, wearing a "dark color" jacket, and then, (2) Had no jacket on, upon entering the theatre?

So is the light tan jacket, alleged to have been shed by Tippit's killer, found under a vehicle, parked at a gas station, along the route from the the shooting to the TT, one of the Oswald's two jackets in question, be it blue or grey or a third jacket, of whatever provenance?

The Warren Commission said CE 162 the light tan near-white jacket, was one of Oswald's two jackets, his gray jacket. Bill defends the Warren Commission interpretation.  

My paper argues CE 162 was a separate, third jacket, was not one of Oswald's two, not Oswald's gray jacket. See pages 42-44 of my paper which summarize the two conflicting interpretations.

Your middle paragraph "Am I understanding..." is an accurate understanding of WC/Bill/David except they don't think Earlene's color "dark" was accurate. It is not accurate for me: I say Oswald did enter the theatre as a ticket-paying customer with the dark jacket Earlene saw him wearing, before the (jacketless) Tippit killer went past Brewer's store and into the balcony.

The link below is a photo of Oswald in Minsk wearing a jacket which I think is Oswald's gray jacket, the gray jacket Buell Wesley Frazier described of Oswald. Notice the hole in the right elbow: that is the hole in the right elbow Mary Bledsoe saw on Oswald on the bus--Oswald was wearing his gray jacket that morning and on that bus.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/162692605265325162/ 

Marina said Lee had only two jackets, one blue and one gray, and had them in the USSR. It is excluded that this jacket of Oswald's in this Minsk photo is the blue CE 163 and it is excluded that it is CE 162, visually. I doubt either Bill or David will ever, ever admit it just possibly could be Lee's gray jacket in the USSR, even though this jacket on Oswald in this Minsk photo agrees with Buell Wesley Frazier's description of Lee's gray jacket in his Warren Commission testimony.  

[Greg Doudna]

8 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

Greg Doudna said: "Against this database of witnesses of the Tippit killer's jacket/CE 162, which 0% of those two databases totaling 15 call a "coat"...

"In short, in the database of 10 I assessed as descriptions of the killer's jacket, which is CE 162, all 10 out of 10 say "jacket", none "coat". 100%"

To claim that other witnesses did not use the word "coat" is just erroneous.

Bill Smith:

Mr. BALL. What kind of clothes did he have on when he shot the officer?
Mr. SMITH. He had on dark pants--just a minute. He had on dark pants and a sport coat of some kind. I can't really remember very well.
Mr. BALL. I will show you a coat----
Mr. SMITH. This looks like it.

Warren Reynolds:

Mr.REYNOLDS. I looked through the parking lot for him after. See, when he went behind the service station, I was right across the street, and when he ducked behind, I ran across the street and asked this man which way he went and they told me the man had gone to the back. And I ran back there and looked up and down the alley right then and didn't see him, and I looked under the cars, and I assumed that he was still hiding there.
Mr. LIEBELER. In the parking lot?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Even to this day I assume that he was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where was this parking lot located now?
Mr.REYNOLDS. It would be at the back of the Texaco station that is on the corner of Crawford and Jefferson where they found his coat.
Mr. LIEBELER. They found his coat in the parking lot?
Mr.REYNOLDS. They found his coat there.

Barbara Davis:

Mr. BALL. Was he dressed the same in the lineup as he was when you saw him running across the lawn?
Mrs. DAVIS. All except he didn't have a black coat on when I saw him in the lineup.
Mr. BALL. Did he have a coat on when you saw him?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What color coat?
Mrs. DAVIS. A dark coat.

By the way, Barbara Davis also used the word "jacket", when describing the exact item she earlier called a "coat"...

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, it was dark and to me it looked like it was maybe a wool fabric, it looked sort of rough. Like more of a sporting jacket.

Bill, you are right on Warren Reynolds and I have corrected my earlier on that: 1 out of the 15 (Reynolds) said "coat", the other 14 said "jacket".

I don't accept the "sport coat" reference of William Smith as a true "coat" parallel to Earlene's "coat" and here is why: that is a technical term for a particular kind of jacket. In America it is called "sport coat", in England "sport jacket" (same meaning for a particular style of jacket). Earlene did not say it was a "sport coat".  

And we just disagree on Barbara Davis. Barbara Davis herself when shown CE 162 said CE 162 was not the coat she remembered as black and rough. She did say Oswald was wearing the black coat, but that the black coat was not CE 162. Either she misremembered a white jacket as a rough black coat, or she misremembered who was wearing a rough black coat. Those are the two alternatives. You are certain it was the former, and I am not certain it was the former. So without belaboring this further, there is just disagreement there.  

[Greg Doudna]

9 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

As for the Tippit witnesses, some used the term jacket instead of coat.  Barbara Davis, who indeed used the word "coat" and Bill Smith, who also used the word "coat" (I think you missed this one).  Barbara was looking at the same man her sister-in-law Virginia was looking at and Virginia used the word "jacket".  This makes it obvious that two people can be looking at the same item and describe it differently.  Warren Reynolds also called it a "coat".  The bottom line is, some people would call 162 a jacket and still some prefer to use the word "coat".  Is this what you're really building a case on?  This wordplay?

No that is not the foundation of the case for Oswald wearing CE 163 out the door of the rooming house. The foundation is the argument that Oswald wore his gray jacket that morning, starting with the testimony of Buell Wesley Frazier and working forward from there, and did not have it going into the rooming house. Therefore coming out of the rooming house with a jacket, and he only had two, his blue jacket (CE 163) is the only other one it could be. That is supported in the "dark" in Earlene's description which agrees with CE 163 but not CE 162, and the "gray" and "coat" of Earlene's description also work well with CE 163. 

Anyway, I made my arguments, all 117 pages of it, and people can read and agree or disagree. The linchpin is the gray jacket worn in the morning, and that the gray jacket as described by Buell Wesley Frazier and other witnesses does not at all agree with CE 162, but does agree with this photo of Oswald wearing an unidentified jacket in Minsk, which I think is his gray jacket (not CE 162): https://www.pinterest.com/pin/162692605265325162/. 

And the hole in the right elbow in that photo of Oswald's jacket I believe is what Mary Bledsoe saw on the bus.

[Greg Doudna]

(Another reference thanks to Steve Roe) On Nov 27, 1963, her sister Bertha Cheek, spells her sister's name "Earline" for the FBI, https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136#relPageId=346  

Edited June 7, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[David Von Pein]

57 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

In light of Bill Brown bringing to attention that the census references to "Earline Roberts" have children which (if correct) cannot be "our" Earlene Roberts, I am going to continue to use "Earlene"...

According to the typewritten version of her 12/5/63 affidavit (at 7 H 439), Mrs. Roberts physically SIGNED that document using the spelling of "EARLENE".

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Cory Santos]

3 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

According to the typewritten version of her 12/5/63 affidavit (at 7 H 439), Mrs. Roberts physically SIGNED that document using the spelling of "EARLENE".

 

And with that we now have the possibility there were more than one Earlene running around Dallas.   That’s right, you heard it first from DVP.  A new theory for all.  Earlene doppelgängers.   Jk. 

[David Von Pein]

And to add more confusion to the "EARLENE / EARLINE" mix....

Check out the following link, which has BOTH spellings of her name presented. It says "EARLINE" on her death certificate. But it would seem (per the site below and the signed affidavit I presented earlier) that she herself might have gone by "EARLENE". ~shrug~

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/28123630/earlene-doke-roberts

 

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Greg Doudna said:

(Another reference thanks to Steve Roe) On Nov 27, 1963, her sister Bertha Cheek, spells her sister's name "Earline" for the FBI, https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136#relPageId=346  

Here's my guess....

Earlene's sister just didn't know how to spell her sister's first name. Because it would seem the only time we find "EARLINE" in the record is when it's coming directly from sister Bertha as the source (e.g., death certificate, that Nov. 27th document you just posted above, and (likely) the newspaper obit. too).

What we need to find is the original version of Roberts' Dec. 5, 1963, affidavit (which would have her actual signature on it). But if we can trust the WC at 7 H 439, she DID spell it with an E, not an I, on her affidavit.

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

BTW.....Mrs. Roberts calls the garment a "JACKET" multiple times in her Dec. '63 affidavit. She never says "COAT" there.

[Bill Brown]

 

The bottom line is that three of the Tippit witnesses indeed called the killer's jacket/coat a "coat".  This despite Greg Doudna's claim that none of them did.  Warren Reynolds was one of them.

 

Greg, thanks for acknowledging.

 

[Bill Brown]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

And to add more confusion to the "EARLENE / EARLINE" mix....

Check out the following link, which has BOTH spellings of her name presented. It says "EARLINE" on her death certificate. But it would seem (per the site below and the signed affidavit I presented earlier) that she herself might have gone by "EARLENE". ~shrug~

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/28123630/earlene-doke-roberts

 

 

 

Keep in mind, there are Dallas Police documents which spell the fallen officer's name as Tippett or Tippet.

 

[Bill Brown]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Here's my guess....

Earlene's sister just didn't know how to spell her sister's first name. Because it would seem the only time we find "EARLINE" in the record is when it's coming directly from sister Bertha as the source (e.g., death certificate, that Nov. 27th document you just posted above, and (likely) the newspaper obit. too).

What we need to find is the original version of Roberts' Dec. 5, 1963, affidavit (which would have her actual signature on it). But if we can trust the WC at 7 H 439, she DID spell it with an E, not an I, on her affidavit.

 

 

"Here's my guess....

Earlene's sister just didn't know how to spell her sister's first name."

 

My thoughts, too.

 

Though I do accept that Steve Roe could be onto something and maybe the census report from 1930 (which lists two children as belonging to Earlene and her husband) is somehow faulty.