The relevance of JFK's Berlin speech to where we are today

[W. Niederhut]

        JFK delivered his famous "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech 60 years ago this week, in Berlin, on June 26, 1963.

        In going to Berlin, JFK was expressing American support for NATO, and a commitment to the defense of freedom in West Berlin from Soviet totalitarianism.

        In defending Ukraine from Putin's military invasion and intended annexation of Ukraine, America's second Irish Catholic POTUS, Joe Biden, has been walking in his predecessor JFK's footsteps-- defending liberal democracy in Europe from militant totalitarianism.

        Yet, Joe Biden has been criticized by Donald Trump, Fox News, and others, for supporting Ukrainian sovereignty following Putin's invasion.

         In fact, following Putin's brutal invasion of Ukraine, Donald Trump declared publicly that, "Putin is a genius."

         Trump calls Putin 'genius' and 'savvy' for Ukraine invasion - POLITICO

         And, in July of 2022, conservative Fox News host Tucker Carlson said, "I don't really care... what Putin does in Ukraine."

        Tucker Carlson: "I don’t really care" what Putin does in Ukraine (axios.com)

 

 

        

Edited June 26, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[W. Niederhut]

So, the 60th anniversary of JFK's historic Berlin speech came and went yesterday, June 26, 1963, without a single comment from the Putin apologists on the forum who completely blew the call on Putin's disastrous invasion of Ukraine during the past year.

Similarly, the Putin apologists on the forum completely ducked commenting on Prigozhin's confession this week that Putin invaded Ukraine on false pretexts.

Meanwhile, RFK, Jr. has been talking out of both sides of his mouth on Ukraine-- lamenting U.S. support for Ukrainian sovereignty, while simultaneously decrying Putin's violation of Ukrainian sovereignty.

Can't have it both ways, Bobby.

Peace is the ideal, but it can't be achieved by unilateral appeasement of dictators.

That's why JFK went to Berlin and Biden went to Kyiv.

Edited June 27, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Sandy Larsen]

Nicely put, William.

 

[Paul Rigby]

Victoria Nuland on Yatsenyuk as "our guy," as she decides who will rule post-coup Ukraine, 2014

ARSENIY YATSENYUK HAS HUGE EPIPHANY ABOUT UKRAINE - IT'S A GENOCIDAL National Socialist REGIME - TOO LATE, June 2023

https://www.bitchute.com/video/8YRQXb0TRlBF/

 

An Indian view of Victoria Nuland as an "agent of destruction"

 

 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

    I noticed that our Putin apologist, Paul Rigby, has avoided commenting on Prigozhin's recent confession that Putin invaded Ukraine on false pretexts. 

    Prigozhin has, certainly, debunked the Kremlin's "blame it on NATO" narrative.

   From what I've read, Prigozhin's comments have also had an impact on public support in Russia for Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

    Hitherto, the Russian people have been bamboozled into believing that Putin's invasion was a defense against Ukrainian aggression.

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, Paul Rigby said:

Victoria Nuland on Yatsenyuk as "our guy," as she decides who will rule post-coup Ukraine, 2014

 

ARSENIY YATSENYUK HAS HUGE EPIPHANY ABOUT UKRAINE - IT'S A GENOCIDAL National Socialist REGIME - TOO LATE, June 2023

https://www.bitchute.com/video/8YRQXb0TRlBF/

 

An Indian view of Victoria Nuland as an "agent of destruction"

 

The U.S, trying to broker a deal so as to get the person they think would be best for Ukraine in power.

Big deal. Like no other government does that?

 

[Roger Odisio]

18 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

The U.S, trying to broker a deal so as to get the person they think would be best for Ukraine in power.

Big deal. Like no other government does that?

 

Yes, and Juan Guaido is, or was, the legit President of Venezuela. Scads of politicians in Washington on both sides of the aisle said so.

 

Nixon and Kissinger had every right to overthrow and murder Allende in Chile.  They had tried everything to prevent his election, but he wouldn't listen and got elected anyway.

 

Democratic party officials, not voters, should decide who the party's nominee is next year.

 

I thought some people might not recognize your sarcasm, Sandy, and think you were serious, so I clarified. You're welcome.

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Roger Odisio said:

Yes, and Juan Guaido is, or was, the legit President of Venezuela. Scads of politicians in Washington on both sides of the aisle said so.

 

Nixon and Kissinger had every right to overthrow and murder Allende in Chile.  They had tried everything to prevent his election, but he wouldn't listen and got elected anyway.

 

Democratic party officials, not voters, should decide who the party's nominee is next year.

 

I thought some people might not recognize your sarcasm, Sandy, and think you were serious, so I clarified. You're welcome.

Newsflash, Roger.  If you're truly concerned about election fraud and the sabotage of democracy, you're focusing on the wrong party.

In other breaking news, Henry Kissinger worked for the Republicons.

[Roger Odisio]

On 6/29/2023 at 12:28 PM, W. Niederhut said:

Newsflash, Roger.  If you're truly concerned about election fraud and the sabotage of democracy, you're focusing on the wrong party.

In other breaking news, Henry Kissinger worked for the Republicons.

Reading comprehension, William.  I made 3 statements.  One about the bankruptcy of both parties, one about Republicans and one about Democrats.

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Roger Odisio said:

Reading comprehension, William.  I made 3 statements.  One about the bankruptcy of both parties, one about Republicans and one about Democrats.

Don't worry needlessly about my reading comprehension, Roger.  It's excellent.

Instead, try to better understand your erroneous false equivalence about Republicans and Democrats in matters relating to voting rights, election fraud, and political assassinations.

Who was POTUS when Mossadeq was assassinated?

How about Allende?

How about Solemani?

Which POTUS was mocked by Republicans for making "human rights" an issue in U.S. foreign affairs?

Which POTUS launched the bogus Neocon "War on Terror?"

Which POTUS stole the 2000 U.S. Presidential election, with the assistance of his gubernatorial brother in Florida and a 5-4 vote by a Republican majority SCOTUS?

[Sandy Larsen]

On 6/29/2023 at 9:22 AM, Roger Odisio said:

Yes, and Juan Guaido is, or was, the legit President of Venezuela. Scads of politicians in Washington on both sides of the aisle said so.

 

Nixon and Kissinger had every right to overthrow and murder Allende in Chile.  They had tried everything to prevent his election, but he wouldn't listen and got elected anyway.

 

What does any of that have to do with 2014 post-coup Ukraine? And the US's interest in choosing a new leader?

 

[Roger Odisio]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

What does any of that have to do with 2014 post-coup Ukraine? And the US's interest in choosing a new leader?

 

You're asking what does the US trying to choose for the Venezuelan people who their ruler is, or replacing Allende, elected by Chilean people, with 20 years of murderous rule by Pinoche, have to do with the US replacing the leader of Ukraine with "their guy" in the coup?  Isn't it obvious its the same kind of hubris, entitlement, and arrogance?   

 

Isn't also obvious that none of these was done for the benefit of the people of those countries?

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

You're asking what does the US trying to choose for the Venezuelan people who their ruler is, or replacing Allende, elected by Chilean people, with 20 years of murderous rule by Pinoche, have to do with the US replacing the leader of Ukraine with "their guy" in the coup?  Isn't it obvious its the same kind of hubris, entitlement, and arrogance?   

 

Isn't also obvious that none of these was done for the benefit of the people of those countries?

 

I believe that when Democrats are in charge, they will try to influence who the leaders will be in unstable governments. I believe they will choose leaders who will serve the interests of the people and who will ultimately step down when the country is stabilized and ready for elections. I believe they will influence who will be elected in order to maintain the democracy.

 

[Roger Odisio]

9 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I believe that when Democrats are in charge, they will try to influence who the leaders will be in unstable governments. I believe they will choose leaders who will serve the interests of the people and who will ultimately step down when the country is stabilized and ready for elections. I believe they will influence who will be elected in order to maintain the democracy.

 

I disagree with everything you say here. In particular, the idea that a country's democracy (rule by the people of that country) contains room within it for US "influence" all the way to picking or replacing leaders is anathema to the very concept. 

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Roger Odisio said:

I disagree with everything you say here. In particular, the idea that a country's democracy (rule by the people of that country) contains room within it for US "influence" all the way to picking or replacing leaders is anathema to the very concept. 

Roger,

     I agree entirely with your criticism of U.S./CIA international atrocities in the post-WWII era-- Mossadeq, Arbenz, Lumumba, Sukarno, Allende, Iran-Contra, etc.  The examples are legion.

      With regard to Ukraine and Eastern Europe, do you similarly deplore Kremlin interference in the sovereignty and democracy of Russia's post-WWII neighbors?

       Didn't Putin's puppet, Yanukovych, put Yulia Timoshenko in prison, before public outrage caused him to flee from his opulent Ukrainian estate to Mother Russia?