ANGLETON And The COWBOY

[Leslie Sharp]

9 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

I'm not convinced!  lololol.

I sent the link to our friend in Haifi who had already seen the photo and never once suggested it was Amit, and he served in intel for his required stint.

 

Amit's features are far more chiseled, his ears are pointy, and from photos I've seen he would have been much shorter than JJA.

Beating this horse to shoe leather, WHAT was he doing in the Southwest ... and "rent a costume" was not an option in the early '60s.

When those questions are answered, the thread will be QED. 

 

9 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

I'm not convinced!  lololol.

I sent the link to our friend in Haifi who had already seen the photo and never once suggested it was Amit, and he served in intel for his required stint.

 

Amit's features are far more chiseled, his ears are pointy, and from photos I've seen he would have been much shorter than JJA.

Beating this horse to shoe leather, WHAT was he doing in the Southwest ... and "rent a costume" was not an option in the early '60s.

When those questions are answered, the thread will be QED. 

Israeli general and intelligence officer Meir Amit was studying at Columbia University from 1959-1961 following a serious parachuting accident in 1958. This positions him in the US outside his intelligence role — or with a pretty solid cover which enabled him to travel the country visiting old friends, in say, Arizona.

 

[Leslie Sharp]

On 7/6/2023 at 12:28 PM, David Butler said:

It's Meir Amit in the photo with Angleton

@David Butler Thank you, David!

In case you miss the follow up, Amit was studying at Columbia University 1959-1961 following a parachuting accident, so it's entirely reasonably he traveled to the Southwest.  Thanks again.

[Leslie Sharp]

@Paul Brancato @Robert Montenegro

The Strange Case of a National Socialist Who Became an Israeli Hitman

 POSTED ON OCTOBER 13, 2016

' . . . Skorzeny continued to surprise the Israelis with his level of cooperation. During a trip to Egypt, he even mailed exploding packages; one Israeli-made bomb killed five Egyptians in the military rocket site Factory 333, where German scientists worked.

The campaign of intimidation was largely successful, with most of the Germans leaving Egypt. Israel stopped the violence and threats, however, when one team was arrested in Switzerland while putting verbal pressure on a scientist’s family. A Mossad man and an Austrian scientist who was working for Israel were put on trial. Luckily, the Swiss judge sympathized with Israel’s fear of Egypt’s rocket program. The two men were convicted of making threats, but they were immediately set free.

Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, however, concluded that all of this being out in public was disastrous to Israel’s image — and specifically could upset a deal he had arranged with West Germany to sell weapons to Israel.

Harel submitted a letter of resignation, and to his shock, Ben-Gurion accepted it. The new Mossad director, commander of military intelligence Gen. Meir Amit, moved the agency away from chasing or intimidating National Socialists.

Amit did activate Skorzeny at least once more, however. The spymaster wanted to explore the possibility of secret peace negotiations, so he asked Israel’s on-the-payroll National Socialist to arrange a meeting with a senior Egyptian official. Nothing ever came of it.

Skorzeny never explained his precise reasons for helping Israel. His autobiography does not contain the word “Israel,” or even “Jew.” It is true that he sought and got the life insurance. The Mossad did not assassinate him. . . 
https://www.motl.org/the-strange-case-of-a-National Socialist-who-became-an-israeli-hitman/

[Robert Montenegro]

7 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

https://www.motl.org/the-strange-case-of-a-National Socialist-who-became-an-israeli-hitman/

Well Leslie, you know how I feel about this from private conversations.

I believe that James Jesus Angleton was developing "snitch jackets" for  intelligence agents working within the CIA, so it would look like they were working for Soviet or Israeli intelligence if they ever got too big for their britches, as it were.

Certainly Professor Jeffery Bale wrote about this phenomenon in his brilliant work "The Darkest Sides of Politics, I: Postwar Fascism, Covert Operations, and Terrorism," which can be seen at the link below:

 https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Darkest_Sides_of_Politics_I/mtszDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=snitch jacket

Edited July 10, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[Leslie Sharp]

13 minutes ago, Robert Montenegro said:

Well Leslie, you know how I feel about this from private conversations.

I believe that James Jesus Angleton was developing "snitch jackets" for  intelligence agents working within the CIA, so it would look like they were working for Soviet or Israeli intelligence if they ever got too big for their britches, as it were.

Certainly Professor Jeffery Bale wrote about this phenomenon in his brilliant work "The Darkest Sides of Politics, I: Postwar Fascism, Covert Operations, and Terrorism," which can be seen at the link below:

 https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Darkest_Sides_of_Politics_I/mtszDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=snitch jacket

And you know my position as well. Attempts to tie "The Jews" to the assassination of Kennedy is anathema, full stop. 

However, avoiding examination of the photo of Angleton with Amit while in Southwestern US doesn't make sense to me. Ignoring it completely goes even further against the grain of this investigation. Deliberating over the role of any international intelligence agency, whether SDECE, BND, INTERPOL,  IDF / Mossad during the early 1960s is only logical. 

[I'll keep an open mind, but I'm not sure that 'snitch jackets' are germane to this particular analysis.]

In short (for now), 
Angleton is photographed with his friend Gen. Meir Amit in the American Southwest sometime during the early 1960s. We know now that Amit was enrolled (at some level) in Columbia U in NYC from 1959-1961, making a trip out to Arizona entirely reasonable. 

Angleton appears in 9 entries of the 1963 Lafitte datebook; Otto Skorzeny appears in 8 entries that reveal his role as strategist for Lancelot Project; his wife Ilse appears in an additional 8 entries. 

Angleton's friend Gen. Amit is (alleged) to have activated the same Otto Skorzeny at least once — a peace mission no less — after he was named chief of Mossad in 1963.

Ergo, Angleton was liaising with Skorzeny in a plot to assassinate Kennedy in the same general timeframe that Amit was dealing with Skorzeny on an (unsuccessful) one-off mission. Fleas and flies as the saying goes?

We've discussed how important it is to occasionally remind ourselves there was more going on around the globe throughout 1963 than the plot to assassinate President Kennedy. (do I hear a collective gasp? 🙂

[Paul Brancato]

5 hours ago, Robert Montenegro said:

Well Leslie, you know how I feel about this from private conversations.

I believe that James Jesus Angleton was developing "snitch jackets" for  intelligence agents working within the CIA, so it would look like they were working for Soviet or Israeli intelligence if they ever got too big for their britches, as it were.

Certainly Professor Jeffery Bale wrote about this phenomenon in his brilliant work "The Darkest Sides of Politics, I: Postwar Fascism, Covert Operations, and Terrorism," which can be seen at the link below:

 https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Darkest_Sides_of_Politics_I/mtszDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=snitch jacket

Snitch jackets - new concept for me. So the story of Mossad going to Madrid to enlist Skorzeny to dismantle Egypt’s nuclear program was planted by Angleton? I’d never considered that possibility, but it’s an interesting supposition. I’d love to own Bale’s book, but it’s very expensive last time I checked. 

[Robert Montenegro]

2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Snitch jackets - new concept for me. So the story of Mossad going to Madrid to enlist Skorzeny to dismantle Egypt’s nuclear program was planted by Angleton?

It's a helluva way to keep the herd in line, so to speak.

Imagine, if you will, that you're a  hunter in the 1960's, you contact CIA for help, and they come back to you with official documentation that your target is working for Israeli intelligence?!

Edited July 10, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[Leslie Sharp]

@Robert Montenegro @Paul BrancatoAre you arguing that Amit didn't activate Skorzeny on at least one occasion to liaise on his behalf with an Egyptian official to discuss a peace option? On the surface, it seems only logical that Mossad was protecting their own interests.

So in this specific scenario, I don't see why it's necessary to introduce Angleton's machinations, i.e. snitch jackets. I know we've hypothesized that Skorzeny et al might have been setting Israel up as canon fodder, the front line of attack in the event of Soviet escalation,  but is there any evidence that Angleton — long term friend of Israel — had a hand in Otto et al's scheme to the degree he would betray his friends, the Israelis?

Writing not as a seasoned historian but as a lay person:
Practically speaking Israel was Dulles/Angleton's primary (if not only) toe hold in the region where oil was the prize. They weren't going to allow Israel to be annihilated. Kennedy on the other hand seemed to have drawn a line in the sand; but wasn't his decision directly related to the missile crisis and his pledge to eventually de-nuke the world?

We might use this opportunity to review  the hierarchy of Lancelot Project. It was inevitable, and Hank knew it, that EVEN IF  'the community' accepted Skorzeny as having played a role in the Dallas plot, the likelihood he would be relegated to "hired contractor" of THE C.I.A. by the community was strong.  We asked a number of questions including: 1) why would Angleton/Dulles outsource the assassination to a high-profile N-azi when any number of international military specialists flying below the radar could have done the trick? 2) why were Degrelle and Rudel in the loop, or Willoughby and Waker for that matter? 3) what role did Skorzeny's direct business relationships in Dallas play in the decision for the successful hit? Was Skorzeny THEIR guy in the Middle East? Was he working with the Egyptians AND the Israelis on behalf of Texas independent oilmen for domination of the world's oil supply? (No doubt the Rockefellers would have readily given a nod and a wink.) Is this why Jack Crichton played such a pivotal role — donning his Empire Trust (ironic name, huh?) cap while capitalizing on the 488th military history?  Are the civilians in this drama still getting away with murder?

We posit that the plotters shared not only a devotion to unfettered (toxic) capitalism but an ideology —ranging from pathological fear of communism to a determination that The Reich would be resurrected and leaders of Kennedy's political ilk were in the way.

Did Skorzeny "report to" the Americans, or was this an ideological/long-range marriage of convenience?

Returning to the salient issue of the thread:  Angleton was a drinking buddy of Amit's.

new image.  Is anyone familiar with agency guy John Hadach (English spelling could be different). 

 

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Edited July 10, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Leslie Sharp]

8 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Leslie Sharp]

@Robert MontenegroThe Arizona license plate appears to be 1966.

A researcher has posited that Cicely Angleton's estate in Tucson provided cover for a meeting in the lead up to the Six Day War.  If another CIA agency guy, John Hadach is sitting around the bar with Angleton and Amit and others, it's likely this wasn't a personal visit.

All the more reason to argue that Angleton was never — not in 1963, not while he was alive — going to allow Skorzeny et al to repeat Gallipoli on Israeli soil.

(let me know if you couldn't open the new photo of Angleton in a western bar with Amit and at least one other agent. I'll email.)

Edited July 10, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Robert Montenegro]

1 hour ago, Leslie Sharp said:

@Robert Montenegro Are you arguing that Amit didn't activate Skorzeny on at least one occasion to liaise on his behalf with an Egyptian official to discuss a peace option? On the surface, it seems only logical that Mossad was protecting their own interests.

 

No.

However, I will argue that until CIA comes clean with all of there files pertaining to the use of  intelligence agents, the Mossad stories just don't pass muster.

Of course, Mossad can get off of their white-and-blue clerical-fascist asses, and just release all of their files related to Skorzeny...   

...and please, don't wave words like logical in my face when it comes to the Mossad—just call me, Alice and the Mossad working with Skorzeny is my White Rabbit with a pocket watch.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Robert Montenegro

[Leslie Sharp]

5 minutes ago, Robert Montenegro said:

 

No.

However, I will argue that until CIA comes clean with all of there files pertaining to the use of   intelligence agents, the Mossad stories just don't pass muster.

Of course, Mossad can get off of their white-and-blue clerical-fascist asses, and just release all of their files related to Skorzeny...   

Indeed. And I know you're distinguishing Mossad from Jewish citizens, as hopefully those studying the history of THE C.I.A. et al from foreign lands  know "they" aren't "us."

And I would make the observation that Oglesby argued the CIA didn't "USE" N-azi agents: Gehlen/Skorzeny N-az- trained spies were permanently embedded in the agency where they taught the Yale elites how to "do espionage"!

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Paul Brancato]

5 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Indeed. And I know you're distinguishing Mossad from Jewish citizens, as hopefully those studying the history of THE C.I.A. et al from foreign lands  know "they" aren't "us."

And I would make the observation that Oglesby argued the CIA didn't "USE" N-azi agents: Gehlen/Skorzeny N-az- trained spies were permanently embedded in the agency where they taught the Yale elites how to "do espionage"!

 

Oglesby was probably my intro into these machinations with post war fascists