"Two Shooters Killed Kennedy"

[Pat Speer]

35 minutes ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

That is an issue.

Pat, do you have a cite for that?

It's al over the WC's volumes and report. The FBI had initially claimed 399 was found on JFK's stretcher in the hall but the WC's investigation established that he'd never been lifted from his stretcher. So Specter and the WC tried to prove it was found on Connally's stretcher.

Thompson, of course, made a compelling case for its actually being found on Ronnie Fuller's stretcher. 

[David Von Pein]

On October 13, 2023, I was able to read the key "bullet" portions of Paul Landis' newly-released book "The Final Witness" (via the book excerpts that have been made available on this webpage), and some additional problems and questions arise, with one of these problems being a massively important one regarding the precise location of where Landis says he left the whole bullet that he says he found on the top of the back seat in the Presidential limo.

All of the available testimony from the Parkland Hospital personnel makes it clear that President Kennedy was never moved from his stretcher (gurney) during the entire time the President was being treated in Trauma Room No. 1. This fact is confirmed in the Warren Commission testimony of Parkland's Dr. Robert McClelland:

ARLEN SPECTER -- Was he [President Kennedy] on the stretcher at all times?

DR. ROBERT N. McCLELLAND -- Yes.

MR. SPECTER -- In the trauma room No. 1 you described, is there any table onto which he could be placed from the stretcher?

DR. McCLELLAND -- No; generally we do not move patients from the stretcher until they are ready to go into the operating room and then they are moved onto the operating table.

MR. SPECTER -- Well, in fact, was he left on the stretcher all during the course of these procedures until he was pronounced dead?

DR. McCLELLAND -- That's right.

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Plus:

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Former Secret Service agent Paul Landis, however, says something completely different in his book. He says this (quoting from the book itself):

"As I entered—or, more to the point, was pushed into—the trauma room, the president’s lifeless body was already being lifted off the gurney and placed onto a white cotton blanket that covered the surface of a stainless-steel examination table in the middle of the room." [End Quote.]

Landis then goes on to say this in his book:

"I removed the bullet from my pocket, and reaching out over the examination table, I carefully placed it on the white cotton blanket next to the president’s left shoe." [End Quote.]

But let's now compare the above book excerpt with the following statement made by the same Mr. Landis just one month ago:

"I put the bullet on the gurney right by his [JFK's] feet" -- Paul Landis; September 12, 2023 (NBC Interview)

So the question of great importance now becomes: Did Landis drop the bullet onto JFK's stretcher/"gurney"? Or did he leave it on an "examination table"?

That's an exceedingly important question to answer, because if we're to believe he left it on an exam table instead of the stretcher (with a stretcher, of course, having wheels on it, which means it could easily be moved from one part of the hospital to another), we've then got to ask: How, then, did that bullet (if it was really CE399, which Mr. Landis does seem to think it was) manage to get from the exam table to a stretcher in the corridor of Parkland Hospital, where it was then found by hospital employee Darrell C. Tomlinson a short time later?

Another possible problem with Landis' story crops up in the book excerpts linked above, although this "problem" isn't nearly as important or imperative as the "gurney vs. exam table" head-scratcher. This additional problem concerns the timing of Vice President Johnson's arrival at Parkland Hospital on 11/22/63. Landis says in his book that LBJ and the Vice President's Secret Service car had not yet arrived at Parkland Hospital by the time JFK's body was being lifted out of the back seat and onto a stretcher. Quoting again from Mr. Landis' book:

"The vice president’s limo had yet to arrive, so there were no agents from his detail in sight. In fact, there were no other agents in sight anywhere to the rear, to my right, or to the front. Where are they? Where the hell is SA Greer? He was driving the president’s limo. He should be here. The follow-up car was empty too. Where the hell is Special Agent Sam Kinney? He was driving it. Jeez, oh man! Where the hell is everyone? Where did all the agents go? Who is going to secure the car AND THE CRIME SCENE? Everyone seemed to be crowded around the president’s body. No one was paying attention to anything else. My immediate concern was the bullet. It would be visible to anyone happening to walk by. What about photographers? Or worse yet, What about a souvenir hunter? Thoughts continued to race through my mind." [End Quote.]

But with regard to Vice President Lyndon Johnson and his exact whereabouts at the time when President Kennedy was being wheeled into the hospital, there is evidence (via the observations of ambulance driver Aubrey Rike) which would indicate that Johnson actually entered Parkland Hospital prior to the time when either JFK or wounded Governor John Connally entered the emergency room entrance.

Listen to the chronology of events provided by Aubrey Rike, in two separate interviews he did on November 22, 1963, HERE.

If Rike's chronology of the timing for when each man entered the hospital is correct --- i.e., Johnson, then Connally, then Kennedy --- that would, in my opinion, place a serious cloud of doubt over Mr. Landis' account (and his mindset) concerning those same events.

Because if LBJ's car and his Secret Service follow-up car were actually there at the hospital prior to Landis and JFK and Mrs. Kennedy exiting the limo and going into the emergency room, it would also mean that Mr. Landis would very likely have had no reason to say this to himself --- "Where did all the agents go? Who is going to secure the car AND THE CRIME SCENE?" --- because there would have still been plenty of SS agents there at Parkland to look after the limousine/"crime scene".

And here's yet another interesting twist to the Paul Landis bullet story:

In this video (which was uploaded to YouTube on September 11, 2023), Clint Hill says that Landis told him in 2014 that he (Landis) put the whole bullet on a stretcher "in the hallway" of Parkland Hospital, vs. putting it on Kennedy's gurney (or exam table), which is what Landis is now saying in 2023.

So with each passing glance at Paul Landis' new 2023 story regarding the events of November 22nd, more and more questions (and doubts) seem to surface.

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My main "Paul Landis" page:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2023/06/paul-landis.html

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Benjamin Cole]

13 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

On October 13, 2023, I was able to read the key "bullet" portions of Paul Landis' newly-released book "The Final Witness" (via the book excerpts that have been made available on this webpage), and some additional problems and questions arise, with one of these problems being a massively important one regarding the precise location of where Landis says he left the whole bullet that he says he found on the top of the back seat in the Presidential limo.

All of the available testimony from the Parkland Hospital personnel makes it clear that President Kennedy was never moved from his stretcher (gurney) during the entire time the President was being treated in Trauma Room No. 1. This fact is confirmed in the Warren Commission testimony of Parkland's Dr. Robert McClelland:

ARLEN SPECTER -- Was he [President Kennedy] on the stretcher at all times?

DR. ROBERT N. McCLELLAND -- Yes.

MR. SPECTER -- In the trauma room No. 1 you described, is there any table onto which he could be placed from the stretcher?

DR. McCLELLAND -- No; generally we do not move patients from the stretcher until they are ready to go into the operating room and then they are moved onto the operating table.

MR. SPECTER -- Well, in fact, was he left on the stretcher all during the course of these procedures until he was pronounced dead?

DR. McCLELLAND -- That's right.

---------------------------------------

Plus:

-----------------------

Former Secret Service agent Paul Landis, however, says something completely different in his book. He says this (quoting from the book itself):

"As I entered—or, more to the point, was pushed into—the trauma room, the president’s lifeless body was already being lifted off the gurney and placed onto a white cotton blanket that covered the surface of a stainless-steel examination table in the middle of the room." [End Quote.]

Landis then goes on to say this in his book:

"I removed the bullet from my pocket, and reaching out over the examination table, I carefully placed it on the white cotton blanket next to the president’s left shoe." [End Quote.]

But let's now compare the above book excerpt with the following statement made by the same Mr. Landis just one month ago:

"I put the bullet on the gurney right by his [JFK's] feet" -- Paul Landis; September 12, 2023 (NBC Interview)

So the question of great importance now becomes: Did Landis drop the bullet onto JFK's stretcher/"gurney"? Or did he leave it on an "examination table"?

That's an exceedingly important question to answer, because if we're to believe he left it on an exam table instead of the stretcher (with a stretcher, of course, having wheels on it, which means it could easily be moved from one part of the hospital to another), we've then got to ask: How, then, did that bullet (if it was really CE399, which Mr. Landis does seem to think it was) manage to get from the exam table to a stretcher in the corridor of Parkland Hospital, where it was then found by hospital employee Darrell C. Tomlinson a short time later?

Another possible problem with Landis' story crops up in the book excerpts linked above, although this "problem" isn't nearly as important or imperative as the "gurney vs. exam table" head-scratcher. This additional problem concerns the timing of Vice President Johnson's arrival at Parkland Hospital on 11/22/63. Landis says in his book that LBJ and the Vice President's Secret Service car had not yet arrived at Parkland Hospital by the time JFK's body was being lifted out of the back seat and onto a stretcher. Quoting again from Mr. Landis' book:

"The vice president’s limo had yet to arrive, so there were no agents from his detail in sight. In fact, there were no other agents in sight anywhere to the rear, to my right, or to the front. Where are they? Where the hell is SA Greer? He was driving the president’s limo. He should be here. The follow-up car was empty too. Where the hell is Special Agent Sam Kinney? He was driving it. Jeez, oh man! Where the hell is everyone? Where did all the agents go? Who is going to secure the car AND THE CRIME SCENE? Everyone seemed to be crowded around the president’s body. No one was paying attention to anything else. My immediate concern was the bullet. It would be visible to anyone happening to walk by. What about photographers? Or worse yet, What about a souvenir hunter? Thoughts continued to race through my mind." [End Quote.]

But with regard to Vice President Lyndon Johnson and his exact whereabouts at the time when President Kennedy was being wheeled into the hospital, there is evidence (via the observations of ambulance driver Aubrey Rike) which would indicate that Johnson actually entered Parkland Hospital prior to the time when either JFK or wounded Governor John Connally entered the emergency room entrance.

Listen to the chronology of events provided by Aubrey Rike, in two separate interviews he did on November 22, 1963, HERE.

If Rike's chronology of the timing for when each man entered the hospital is correct --- i.e., Johnson, then Connally, then Kennedy --- that would, in my opinion, place a serious cloud of doubt over Mr. Landis' account (and his mindset) concerning those same events.

Because if LBJ's car and his Secret Service follow-up car were actually there at the hospital prior to Landis and JFK and Mrs. Kennedy exiting the limo and going into the emergency room, it would also mean that Mr. Landis would very likely have had no reason to say this to himself --- "Where did all the agents go? Who is going to secure the car AND THE CRIME SCENE?" --- because there would have still been plenty of SS agents there at Parkland to look after the limousine/"crime scene".

And here's yet another interesting twist to the Paul Landis bullet story:

In this video (which was uploaded to YouTube on September 11, 2023), Clint Hill says that Landis told him in 2014 that he (Landis) put the whole bullet on a stretcher "in the hallway" of Parkland Hospital, vs. putting it on Kennedy's gurney (or exam table), which is what Landis is now saying in 2023.

So with each passing glance at Paul Landis' new 2023 story regarding the events of November 22nd, more and more questions (and doubts) seem to surface.

 

James Robenalt says Hill is misquoting Landis.

Robenalt says Landis is credible---and Robenalt is a guy who has hosted accommodating Warren Commission review sessions starring Burt Griffin and Howard Willens.

The Landis version does answer the question of why CE399 shows none of the damage it should, had it broken so many bones in JBC's body. Because it never passed through JBC's body, is the answer. 

The latest Landis version is squishy, but more believable than the SBT.