I met Oswald in the elevator: Mr. Spaulding Jones

[Alan Ford]

https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/15772/spaulding-jones-oral-history?ctx=baa5742ebe327533c7877c25dd91d058a76ead47&idx=251

It's quite an eyebrow-raiser.

Two things leap out in particular:

1. On the morning of 11/22, Mr. Jones says he saw unfamiliar men in the building whom he took to be (non-uniformed) Secret Service men. His assumption was that they were checking the building out ahead of the P. Parade.

2. That same morning (hours before the motorcade), Mr. Jones encountered Mr. Lee Harvey Oswald on the front ('passenger') elevator. Mr. Oswald got off on (according to Mr. Jones' best recollection) the third floor. Mr. Oswald was carrying a box about this wide-------------

and this deep-------------

The box was (to use Mr. Jones' own word:) "tall". (Mr. Jones afterwards wondered if it might not have contained the rifle.)

------------------

With regard to #2 above, cf (perhaps) this information given to the HSCA in 1977 by Mrs. Mary Hall, who had worked on the fifth floor of the Dal-Tex building:

Did Mr. Oswald that morning receive delivery of something necessary to that day's planned activities, and take it upstairs somewhere?

Edited November 15, 2023 by Alan Ford

[Greg Wagner]

Nice work connecting the dots, Alan. I was aware of Mary Hall's statement, but I had never heard of Spaulding Jones. In addition to Oswald possibly taking delivery of a rifle-shaped box from an Honest Joe's station wagon, Jones' account of seeing unfamiliar men in the building that morning is intriguing. I will listen to the oral history, but does he say anything more about the mystery men?

[Alan Ford]

2 hours ago, Greg Wagner said:

Nice work connecting the dots, Alan. I was aware of Mary Hall's statement, but I had never heard of Spaulding Jones. In addition to Oswald possibly taking delivery of a rifle-shaped box from an Honest Joe's station wagon, Jones' account of seeing unfamiliar men in the building that morning is intriguing. I will listen to the oral history, but does he say anything more about the mystery men?

No, Mr. Wagner, he doesn't. The context in which he mentions the men is a question from the interviewer as to whether it would have been easy for people to come into the building without being challenged. Mr. Jones is quick to say that the company had nothing by way of building security--------------things were all very lax back then.

IF Mr. Jones really did see Mr. Oswald in the elevator that morning,

and

IF Mr. Oswald had the same tall box that Ms. Hall saw being delivered,

THEN it may of course have contained a rifle. Alternatively, it may have contained something else altogether of relevance to that day's planned event. One thing seems clear: it almost certainly wasn't a box of books!

That Mr. Oswald (on Mr. Jones' account) got off on the third floor is also rather interesting. Was he secreting this box in the storage area at the back of that floor, for later use? And did he use the front elevator to avoid possible questions from fellow manual workers?

[Greg Doudna]

On 11/15/2023 at 6:44 AM, Alan Ford said:

https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/15772/spaulding-jones-oral-history?ctx=baa5742ebe327533c7877c25dd91d058a76ead47&idx=251

It's quite an eyebrow-raiser.

Two things leap out in particular:

1. On the morning of 11/22, Mr. Jones says he saw unfamiliar men in the building whom he took to be (non-uniformed) Secret Service men. His assumption was that they were checking the building out ahead of the P. Parade.

2. That same morning (hours before the motorcade), Mr. Jones encountered Mr. Lee Harvey Oswald on the front ('passenger') elevator. Mr. Oswald got off on (according to Mr. Jones' best recollection) the third floor. Mr. Oswald was carrying a box about this wide-------------

(. . .)

The box was (to use Mr. Jones' own word:) "tall". (Mr. Jones afterwards wondered if it might not have contained the rifle.)

Alan, I cannot get the link to load, and I have tried two computers. If this is Spaulden Earnest Jones of the MacMillan Company, TSBD, the Warren Commission has at CE 1381 what is represented as a transcription of a signed statement from Mr. Jones of 3/20/64 saying

• "I cannot recall seeing any person in the Texas School Book Depository Building, on the morning of 11-22-63 who was a stranger to me."
• "To the best of my knowledge I have never met Lee Harvey Oswald at the Texas School Book Depository Building.

Can you say the date of the Spaulden Jones interview? Was Spaulden Jones asked or did he volunteer any comment about that 1964 FBI interview?

Is there a written transcript of that interview? Could you or someone who has access to that interview give an exact transcription of the relevant part where he speaks of seeing the unfamiliar men in the building in advance of the presidential parade?

On the interview you cite from Mrs. Mary Hall with the HSCA, I cannot find that on the Mary Ferrell Foundation or anywhere else. Do you have a link on that? Thanks.

 

[Tony Krome]

28min mark, Spaulding was hanging around the TSBD after the shooting, was with Wes Wise, someone ran up to them with part of a skull in a shoebox, handed it to plain clothes suited man, like "secret service" or someone like that, a few minutes after that, he could hear radio saying that JFK was on the way to hospital, that he was still alive, but Spaulding after seeing skull knew he couldn't be alive, one hour later Spaulding heard JFK was announcement he was dead.

[Tony Krome]

30min mark, Spaulding's co-worker Herb Junker, said before the shooting to him, that the TSBD would be a perfect place to shoot Kennedy. Herb Junker had planned for a road trip that afternoon, and LOADED HIS STATION WAGON after the shooting, and took off for Louisiana. Authorities immediatley put up a ROAD BLOCK for Herb Junker but Junker later said he saw no road block.

Maybe Spaulding mentioned in his interview at the TSBD that afternoon that Junker told him about shooting from the TSBD. The above was probably all legit, but interesting. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Tony Krome

[Tony Krome]

34min mark, days before his 1996 interview, Spaulding talked to O. V. Campbell, and suggested to the interviewer that it could have been Campbell or Truly that identified Oswald leaving the building.

This matches the earliest Campbell newspaper reports post assassination

[Tony Krome]

40min mark, Spaulding told the authorities at the TSBD during his interview that afternoon, that he saw a person on the elevator, that morning, THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW. It was only later, after seeing a photo of Oswald, that he believed it was Oswald in that elevator with his daughters, whom Spaulding was taking upstairs at the time, approx 8:30am.

So 30mins after Oswald began work.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Tony Krome

[Tony Krome]

41min mark. Spaulding believes it was Oswald in the elevator that morning, and that he was carrying a BOX so TALL that Spaulding believed later, it could have contained a rifle.

[Tony Krome]

42min mark. Spaulding told authorities that afternoon at the TSBD, that it may well have been Oswald in the elevator that morning. Said to interviewer, that it turned out it was.

I guess a tall BOX was outside the narrative.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Tony Krome

[Alan Ford]

3 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

42min mark. Spaulding told authorities that afternoon at the TSBD, that it may well have been Oswald in the elevator that morning. Said to interviewer, that it turned out it was.

I guess a tall BOX was outside the narrative.

Perhaps the 'investigating' authorities were more exercised by this box than they let on to Mr. Jones?

Cf?

Edited November 20, 2023 by Alan Ford

[Alan Ford]

5 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Alan, I cannot get the link to load, and I have tried two computers.

Mr. Doudna, have you clicked on 'Video' at the bottom left of screen?

[Alan Ford]

5 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

On the interview you cite from Mrs. Mary Hall with the HSCA, I cannot find that on the Mary Ferrell Foundation or anywhere else. Do you have a link on that? Thanks.

Can't recall where I first came across it (may have been the Prayer Man site?). Here's the full document (markings are mine)--------------------

[Alan Ford]

For the box Mr. Jones says he saw Mr. Oswald with to be the same box Mrs. Hall says she saw being delivered to the TSBD, either Mr. Jones or Mrs. Hall would need to be a little out in their time estimates (8:30am vs. 9.30-10.30am). Of the two, Mr. Jones' estimate seems softer.

 

[Tony Krome]

On 11/15/2023 at 10:44 PM, Alan Ford said:

On the morning of 11/22, Mr. Jones says he saw unfamiliar men in the building

You may need to edit that line. At the 35min mark, he explains that he saw the men around the building, and went on to say, "not inside" before the interviewer interrupted him. So there were outside the building.

Also, no connection to Hall across the road, the elevator time is too early