Sandy Larsen Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 38 minutes ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said: Using boldface all the time is counter-productive. WHO ASKED YOU???!!! Crap... now how am I going to emphasize my exclamation marks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said: Hey Jeremy, Nearly every Parkland doctor and nurse who saw the gaping wound on JFK's head (about 20 of them) said early on that it was on the back of the head. Not the top. Yet the back-of-head autopsy photos show no such thing. And neither does the Z film. In fact, the Z film shows a gaping wound that nobody at Parkland saw. How do you account for the discrepancies? Do you -- like Pat Speer -- believe that the Parkland doctors and nurses mass hallucinated the very same thing? A big hole on the back of the head when in fact it was on top of the head? (According to Pat, the WC, and HSCA?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Griffith Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 19 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said: For the love of god, can someone please stop this guy from posting pages and pages of the same stuff over and over again? Requested DENIED. Resubmit in 90 days with triplicate forms. Be advised that you must answer the first question on the form before you can complete the rest of the form. The first question reads, "Do you still believe in the single-bullet theory?" Warning: Checking the Yes box will gray-out the rest of the form, and you will be sent links to (1) the overhead CT image that proves that no bullet could have gone from the back wound to the throat wound without smashing through the spine, and (2) the recent Knott Laboratory 3D laser analysis that proves that a bullet exiting JFK's throat could not have caused Connally's back wound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keven Hofeling Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 (edited) On 1/6/2024 at 10:27 AM, Michael Griffith said: I think the skeptics soundly won the Parkland debate with the ARRB releases, with the Harrison Livingstone interviews, and with other disclosures. Among many other things, we learned that even some of the autopsy witnesses who believed there was only one head shot and that it came from behind said there was a large wound in the back of the head (e.g., Sibert and O'Neill). Other autopsy witnesses who said there was a large rear head wound include Dr. Robert Karnei Tom Robinson Jan Rudnicki Joe Hagan Dr. John Ebersole General McHugh Robert Knudsen Edward Reed I find the Diana Bowron, Clint Hill, Aubrey Rike, Doris Nelson, and Roy Kellerman descriptions of a large rear head wound particularly convincing. Michael, I think you have misinterpreted @Chris Bristow's comment. The following is his comment to which you were responding: Quote I think the skeptics lost the Parkland debate a long time ago. The misrepresentations, cherry picking, and gaslighting have become far too obvious over time. I assume many researchers see right through it. It is truly a 'House of cards", imo. By "skeptics," Chris meant JFK researchers who accept the evidence of JFK's back-of-the-head wound, not the WC skeptics. The following is a comment that Chris Bristow made on the subject on Facebook in which he more expansively makes the same point he was trying to make in the comment above. I think that Chris has a very valuable perspective on this so just wanted to make sure he gets his point across... CHRIS BRISTOW ON RIDICULOUS LN ATTEMPTS TO ARGUE AWAY THE EXISTENCE OF THE OCCIPITAL-PARIETAL WOUND IN THE BACK OF JFK'S HEAD https://www.facebook.com/groups/politicalassassinationsresearchgroup/posts/5533837433338947/ Chris Bristow wrote: "On the Parkland doctors issue Skeptics have multiple rationalizations all of which are very weak arguments. I think the Parkland issue is definitely the strongest Smoking Gun in the JFK case. The second most convincing argument is all of the ridiculous excuses that are made for the Parkland doctors. The fact they have no valid response speaks volumes. They claim they were too busy to take a close look at the head wound. That's the stupidest argument of all and is completely and utterly refuted by the Warren Commission testimony of Peters, Perry, and Clark. But there is also a lot of corroboration from many other doctors. They also try and claim the doctors all capitulated in the Nova documentary done at the National Archives. But at Parkland we have at least 12 doctors and five nurses and a couple more staff that saw the hole in the back of the head. In the Nova documentary there are only four doctors present. The math alone proves the Nova documentary claim is a lie. Sometimes they try and claim that the 19 plus staff members who saw the hole in the back of the head just got it wrong. And the three or four doctors who claim there was no hole in the back are correct. If those numbers were reversed and as a CT person I tried to argue that we should trust those four doctors over the 19 doctors I would be called a weak-minded conspiracy thinker. Who in their right mind would accept the testimony of four over the testimony of 19 plus? But that is exactly what the Skeptics do. They also try and twist the story so that the Parkland staff were all saying the wound was in the very back of the head. Then they say if it was reported back there it must be wrong because he was laying on the back of his head and you couldn't see that area. The problem is the doctors were very clear about it being in the right rear. There are multiple video interviews when the doctors will say it was in the back of the head. But then they continue and place their hands in the right occipital parietal not the back of the head. Even McClelland can be quoted as saying it was in the back of the head. But he then reaches for the right occipital parietal as he says it. And other times he and others say "In the back of the head in the occipital parietal area". Nurse Bowron used the general term "Back of the head" in her WC testimony. But in a later interview she verified a drawing of the wound in the RIGHT occipital parietal There are many examples of the doctors making a general statement about the back of the head but then immediately and more specifically pointing to or saying the right rear. The claim that the doctors thought it was in the very back of the head is a up story, But you need to look at all the testimony and everything they said in interviews to confirm this. There's a clip on YouTube that shows Audrey Bell, Dr McClelland and I think Dr Jones all stating the wound was in the back of the head. But when you see the full clips all three of them immediately point to the right occipital parietal after saying back of the head. But in the clip that amounts to nothing more than propaganda, the second bit of what they said or pointed to is cut out and you only see them saying it was in the back of the head. Who in their right mind after just a short period of studying the assassination could believe that Dr McClelland, the most vocal proponent of the right occipital parietal wound, would believe that manipulated sound bite? Another famous argument is the Parkland doctors were all over the map regarding the location of the wound. They will show a picture of Theran Ward touching his fingers tips to the right mastoid process. The palm of his hand is over his ear so they make the claim that he was reporting the wound as being at the ear. But in his written report he stated it was " in the back of the head". That statement taken together with the photo of his fingertips at the mastoid would indicate he meant the right rear. I should note that in almost every single instance of a staff demonstrating the wound location they use their fingertips to locate it. Just as Theran Ward did I believe., they will show Doctor Dulany's photo with his hand higher than the occipital parietal, much closer to the official location, but in his Nova documentary statement he's called it the right occipital parietal. Personally I think he made a mistake in the photograph because he was not touching his fingers to his head. All you have to do is rock your head about 1 inch and it totally changes the location. I think he just made a mistake. To bolster my argument I would point to several of the staff like Dr Jones who have to feel around the back of their head with their fingertips to find the location. Dr Jones literally starts way down behind the ear, then moves up a couple inches, then moves up again to the location that matches McClelland and Dr Carrico and others. Dr Jones obviously knows his Anatomy and has been asked to point to that location many many times. Yet he still has to feel around for it in the back of the head as so many other staff members did. I assume because we have no visual map of the back of our own head to go by. I think that demonstrates that we have to give a little bit of leeway to the location of the wounds reported. But when you look at all the locations from Parkland as a whole and compare them to the official location there is a world of difference. The Parkland staff is very consistently behind and below the crown of the head and the official wound is on the top of the head. Since I have been on Facebook I have debated the Parkland issue multiple times with the same Skeptics. After pasting images of testimony directly from the WC and posting multiple links the Skeptics never seem to retain this information. 6 months later the same people will come back and try and make the same utterly debunked arguments. they will come back and say the Nova documentary proves the doctors wrong. They will again claim the doctors never got a chance to take a close look. Even though I have posted Dr Clark's testimony in which he calls the wound mortal, and with the very next words out of his mouth he calls off the resuscitation and gives up on JFK. Of course he did! It would be unethical to continue the rough treatment the resuscitation inflicts on the patient when there is zero reason to do it. Mortal means he's not going to survive. It is not like having no heartbeat or respiration. Under those conditions you can say well if we continue maybe the heartbeat will start. But when the doctor uses the word mortal it is definitive. It means the patient is not surviving and there is no reason to continue resuscitation. So again with the next words out of Dr Clark's mouth he tells the doctors to stop. this is undeniable proof that the doctors got a good look yet even upon seeing this the Skeptics will return in 6 months and repeat the ludicrous argument that the doctors never got a chance to inspect that wound. I think they're fake memory loss is the third most powerful evidence for the Parkland staff. When it comes to Parkland the Skeptics can't seem to retain the information for more than a few months. Or they're XXXXX who are trying to pass off propaganda. I can understand the human nature of not wanting to admit you're wrong during the argument. But they return 6 months later and restate the false argument. The only argument a skeptic can make is that a few of the doctors seem to contradict themselves later on. Most dramatically Dr Carrico completely flipped his story after 25 years or more. The day of the assassination he wrote occipital parietal in his notes. Several months later he testified under oath that the wound was right occipital parietal. 14 years later he doubled down and testified under oath again at the hsca. Again saying right occipital parietal. Then in an interview for the 6th floor Museum he decided to correct the record. He said that he didn't take those reports that seriously at the time and it had been a half hour since he had seen the body. So he wants to correct the notes from that day. Doesn't bother to mention that he testified under both twice. Did he lie twice? So he had the president of the United States laying there gunned down minutes before, yet he doesn't take the report that seriously in terms of the ballistics or wound locations? That's a serious crock of bull. People often claim that the doctors testimony was just hearsay. As I understand it a person giving testimony under oath of something they personally experienced is called direct evidence. I know Keven is a lawyer so maybe he could clear that one up for me." Edited January 10 by Keven Hofeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Griffith Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Keven Hofeling said: Michael, I think you have misinterpreted @Chris Bristow's comment. The following is his comment to which you were responding: By "skeptics," Chris meant JFK researchers who accept the evidence of JFK's back-of-the-head wound, not the WC skeptics. I think you misspoke. The only skeptics who accept the large back-of-head wound are WC skeptics. WC apologists universally reject the back-of-head wound. WC skeptics accept it. Anyway, your posts are great. Keep them coming! If anyone is getting "headaches" from your posts, they are getting them because their brains are trying to break free from the lone-gunman brainwashing that has chained them down all these years. Edited January 10 by Michael Griffith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keven Hofeling Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 2 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said: I think you misspoke. The only skeptics who accept the large back-of-head wound are WC skeptics. WC apologists universally reject the back-of-head wound. WC skeptics accept it. Anyway, your posts are great. Keep them coming! If anyone is getting "headaches" from your posts, they are getting them because their brains are trying to break free from the lone-gunman brainwashing that has chained them down all these years. Yes, you're right. Thanks for the clarification. I've been reading your work online since 1995, and have always gotten a lot out of it. So thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keven Hofeling Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 (edited) On 1/9/2024 at 6:10 PM, Pat Speer said: Well, then, please explain what his point is. Is it that the body was altered, or that the photos were faked? P.S. I saw that Bobby Hargis was included in Keven's bogus list of back of the head witnesses.Well, here's what Hargis really had to say... Bobby W. Hargis rode to the right of Martin and to the left of Mrs. Kennedy. (11-22-63 article in the Dallas Times-Herald. Note: in 1995 Hargis would tell researchers Ian Griggs and Mark Oakes that he didn't write this article and that it must have been based on a conversation he'd had with a reporter in a hallway) “About halfway down between Houston and the underpass I heard the first shot. It sounded like a real loud firecracker. When I heard the sound, the first thing I thought about was a gunshot. I looked around and about then Governor Connally turned around and looked at the President with a real surprised look on his face…The President bent over to hear what the Governor had to say. When he raised back up was when the President got shot…I felt blood hit me in the face and the Presidential car stopped almost immediately after that…I racked (parked) my motorcycle and jumped off. I ran to the North side of Elm to see if I could find where the bullets were coming from. I don’t think the President was hit with the first shot… I felt that the Governor was shot first." (Undated typescript of interview with Hargis found within the Dallas-Times-Herald's photograph collection, as reported by Richard Trask in Pictures of the Pain, 1994. This is almost certainly the basis for the 11-22 article) "I felt blood hit me in the face, and the presidential car stopped almost immediately after that and stayed stopped about half a second, then took off at a high rate of speed. I racked my cycle and jumped off. I ran to the north side of Elm Street to see if I could find where the bullets came from. I don't think the President got hit with the first shot, but I don't know for sure. When I heard the first shot, it looked like he bent over. I feel that the Governor was shot first. I could be wrong. Right after the first shot, I was trying to look and see if the President got shot. When I saw the look on Connally's face, I knew somebody was shooting at the car...The fatal bullet struck the President in the right side of the head. I noticed the people in the Texas School Book Depository were looking up to see the top. I didn't know if the President stopped under the triple underpass or not. I didn't know for sure if the shots had come from the Book Depository. I thought they might have come from the trestle." (11-23-63 UPI article found in the Fresno Bee) “I saw flesh flying after the shot, and the president’s hair flew up,” Hargis said, “I knew he was dead.” (11-23-63 article in the Houston Post) "A Dallas motorcycle officer who was riding two feet from the presidential car described to the Houston Post Friday what he saw when a sniper fired the shots that killed President Kennedy and wounded Gov. John B. Connally. 'When the first rifle bullet spewed into the open limousine,' said Patrolman J.H. Hargis, 'The President bent forward in the car.' Hargis, a nine-year veteran of the force, said the first shot hit the governor. 'Then immediately after that,' Hargis said, 'the second shot was fired, striking the President in the right side of the head.' The Secret Service man driving the car immediately picked up the phone inside the car and said "Let's go to the nearest hospital.' Hargis said he jumped off his motorcycle and began a search of the building from which the shots were fired. 'I knew it was high and from the right. I looked for any sign of activity in the windows, but I didn't see anybody.'" (11-24-63 article in the New York Sunday News) "We turned left onto Elm St. off Houston, about a half block from where it happened. I was right alongside the rear fender on the left side of the President's car, near Mrs. Kennedy. When I heard the first explosion, I knew it was a shot. I thought that Gov. Connally had been hit when I saw him turn toward the President with a real surprised look. The President then looked like he was bent over or that he was leaning toward the Governor, talking to him. As the President straightened back up, Mrs. Kennedy turned toward him, and that was when he got hit in the side of his head, spinning it around. I was splattered with blood. Then I felt something hit me. It could have been concrete or something, but I thought at first I might have been hit. Then I saw the limousine stop, and I parked my motorcycle at the side of the road, got off and drew my gun. Then this Secret Service agent (in the President's car) got his wits about him and they took off. The motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward and announced to the chief that the President had been shot." (4-3-64 testimony before the Warren Commission, 6H293-296): “I was next to Mrs. Kennedy when I heard the first shot, and at that time the President bent over, and Governor Connally turned around. He was sitting directly in front of him, and (had) a real shocked and surprised expression on his face…I thought Governor Connally had been shot first, but it looked like the President was bending over to hear what he had to say, and I thought to myself then that Governor Connally, the Governor had been hit, and then as the President raised back up like that the shot that killed him hit him.” (When asked about the blood) "when President Kennedy straightened back up in the car the bullet him in the head, the one that killed him and it seemed like his head exploded, and I was splattered with blood and brain, and kind of bloody water, It wasn't really blood. And at that time the Presidential car slowed down. I heard somebody say 'Get going' or 'get going.'" (When asked about the source of the shots) "Well, at the time it sounded like the shots were right next to me. There wasn't any way in the world I could tell where they were coming from, but at the time there was something in my head that said that they probably could have been coming from the railroad overpass, because I thought since I had got splattered, with blood--I was Just a little back and left of--just a little bit back and left of Mrs. Kennedy, but I didn't know. I had a feeling that it might have been from the Texas Book Depository, and these two places was the primary place that could have been shot from." (8-7-68 interview with Tom Bethel and Al Oser, investigators working on behalf New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison, NARA #180-10096-10005) (When discussing how he could have been sprayed with blood, if the shot came from behind) "Well, that right there is what I've wondered about all along, but see there's ah -- you've got to take into consideration we were moving at the time, and when he got hit all that stuff went like this, and of course I run through it." (When discussing his interpretation of the direction of the shots) "Well, like I say, being that we know that the shot came from the School Book Depository, right then it was kind of hard to say what run through your mind. You know you pick up these little things. You don't know why you do it. You don't know why you do 'em, you just do 'em. It's just kind of instinct. But I had in my mind the shots you couldn't tell where they was coming, but it seemed like the motion of the President's head or his body and the splatter had hit me, it seemed like both the locations needed investigating, and that's why I investigated them. But you couldn't tell, there was -- it looked like a million windows on the Book Depository.You couldn't tell exactly if there was anyone in there with a gun." (When asked if the shots could have come from anywhere) "Uh huh. That's correct." (When asked if he saw the President's head jerk as a response to a bullet's impact) "Yes. Uh huh...To the left forward. Kind of that way...I couldn't see what part of it got hit...If he'd got hit in the rear, I'd have been able to see it. All I saw was just a splash come out on the other side." (a 1971 interview of Hargis by "Whitney," someone working for researcher Fred Newcomb, as presented by Larry Rivera and Jim Fetzer on the Veterans Today website, 4-3-14) (When asked how long the limo stopped) "Oh – you mean after that first shot?...Only about uh, oh 3-4 seconds. Maybe about 5-6. That’s all...but you won’t find that in the Warren Commission report." (When asked if it said the limo stopped) "Ah no I don’t think it didn’t – you’ve seen a rolling stop have you? It’s going less than one mile an hour?...Well that’s what he was doing he wasn’t completely stopped or dead still." The next three reports were posted on the Education Forum by Chris Scally, 6-21-11. (Interview by HSCA investigators James Kelly and Harold Rose on 10-26-77, notes transcribed 11-16-77, JFK document #003300, RIF 180-10107-10243) ""When they turned left on Elm from Houston, he was watching the President's car. Shortly afterwards, he heard a shot. He saw President Kennedy slump forward and Governor Connally turn. He felt at the time that Connally might have been hit and the President was leaning forward to find out what happened. He said the first shot sounded to him like a firecracker. The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop. After the second shot, the car accelerated rapidly and sped to Parkland Hospital. Hargis said he pulled over to the curb at the grassy knoll. He got off the bike and went up the hill on the grass. He didn't see anyone with a gun, so he went over to the Texas School Book Depository at 411 Elm Street and helped other police officers seal it off." (Interview by HSCA investigator Jack Moriarty dated 8-8-78, notes transcribed 8-23-78, JFK document #014362, RIF 180-10113-10272) "When the first report sounded, he was "about one-third of the way down Elm", having made the last turn from Houston. It sounded like a firecracker, but he was unable to tell where it came from. He looked to his right and saw Connally turning and the President appeared to be leaning forward as if he was trying to hear what the Governor was saying. He had seen JFK lean forward in like manner during the motorcade as he and Connally had been conversing. This time, though, the President had an expression of pain on his face. When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped and he had to put his feet down to maintain balance. Then the driver accelerated and several motormen started the escort. Hargis remained behind parking his bike where it stood in the left side of Elm now about one half way down the hill. He ran to the grassy knoll and continued until he had reached the top section of the underpass. Finding nothing significant, he returned to his bike - still on the stand with the radio on (and working) and the engine off. He started the bike and drove back up Elm and parked just west of the front door of the TSBD where he joined Brewer as they became part of the effort to seal off this building, although, he adds, at that time no-one was certain just where the shots had come from." (Interview by HSCA investigator Jack Moriarty, 12-29-78, JFK document # 014224, RIF 180-10109-10354). "Reached Mr. Hargis at his new residence... today and developed the following additional information. At the sound of the first shot, he was "in position" - some five to six feet from the left corner of the rear bumper of John F. Kennedy limousine. At the sound of the second shot, he was a bit closer (the limousine slowed and nearly stopped) - perhaps four feet. By the third shot (although he doesn't recall the actual, but saw John F. Kennedy's head explode), he was "almost even with Jackie - no more than two or three feet, if that." (Interview with NBC broadcast on the 1988 program That Day In November) "It sounded like a firecracker to me and I thought 'Oh Lord, let it be a firecracker. And it looked like the President was bending over, forward. And then when he raised back up is when that second shot hit him in the head." (5-14-92 video-taped interview with Mark Oakes) "I was trying to catch up to my assigned station when the first shot rang out...I saw Connally turn around...I thought he had been shot. It sounded like a firecracker but then when I saw Connally's face I thought he'd been shot. Which he had...The second shot made his head like a ripe tomato when you shoot it with a gun on the ground. It explodes. That's how his head did. It exploded. Now you got brain matter, blood, and everything else on you" (6-26-95 video-taped interview with Mark Oakes and Ian Griggs) (On the explosion of Kennedy's head) "It didn't only hit me...It showered everything in the car behind it...You put a ripe tomato, and you shoot it with a gun and it splatters. That's what it was...But the first shot sounded like a firecracker...I've been fired at like five times and every one of them sounded like a firecracker--to me..." (Later, after voicing his support for the single-bullet theory) "There was not three shots; there was only two. I only heard two. One got him through the back and one got him through the head. That's it...The facts was there was two shots--one that hit him in the back and one that hit him in the head. And the one that hit him in the head just busted his head wide open. That's it." (On William Greer, the driver of the limo) "That guy slowed down, maybe his orders was to slow down, slowed down almost to a stop." (11-23-95 Dallas Morning News article found in the Herald Journal) "'I'm the only one living who was beside the car,' said Detective Hargis, now 63. 'When he was shot in the head, it splashed up, and I ran into all that brain matter, and all that. It came up and down, all over my uniform." (November 1998 interview with Texas Monthly) “About ten seconds after we made that left-hand turn, that first shot rang out…I remember Kennedy leaned forward to listen to what he had to say. And then when he raised back up, that second shot hit him in the head. But we figured out that he had got shot—that first bullet had gone through the upper part of his back, well through the seat, and hit Connally’s wrist and glanced off and went into his thigh.” (Interview within an 11-22-03 WBAP radio program found on Youtube) "Yeah I looked toward the President and I thought maybe John Connally was hit because he turned around to look at the President. He had a real surprised look on his face. Kennedy was bending over like he was listening to what Connally had to say. When he raised back up, that second shot hit him in the head. That's what killed him, There was only two shots fired." (11-22-03 article in the Dallas Morning News) “Hargis differs with the Warren Commission and most eyewitnesses, insisting that only two shots were fired. With the first, “a thousand million things went through my mind,” he says. After the last, “there was a plume of blood and brains and plasma. It was just like a fog, and I ran right through it.” (Oral History interview performed for the Sixth Floor Museum, 9-24-10) (When asked if his observations suggested that the fatal shot came from in front of Kennedy) "No." (When asked if it bothered him that people use his statements to suggest there'd been a conspiracy) "Yeah, it does...There was no conspiracy, whatsoever. There was two shots fired, and both shots, we found the bullet." (On the possibility there was a second gunman on the grassy knoll) "To me it sounds ludicrous." (11-22-13 article in The New York Post) "Few people were closer to President Kennedy’s assassination than the Dallas motorcycle cop who got splattered with his blood and gore. Bobby Hargis was riding a Harley-Davidson just behind and to the left of the Lincon Continental convertible that carried Kennedy through Dealey Plaza. The motorcade was moving so slowly, Hargis said, that “I had a hard time holding my Harley up. I never let it fall, but I had to use my kickstand quite a bit.” “People were so happy and they were crowding into the street,” Hargis said — until the shots that killed Kennedy cracked the air. “I saw him being struck. Big plume of brains and blood. I rode right through the plume. I didn’t even notice it,” said Hargis, 81. As chaos erupted, Hargis parked the bike and ran into the Book Depository looking for the shooter. Later, he recalled, “Another officer said to me, ‘You’ve got something on your lip.’ It was part of (Kennedy’s) brains.” Hargis said the shooting left him feeling guilty that and his colleagues had failed to protect the president. “Until then, I was real proud to be a police officer,” he said. “It seemed like we didn’t have it all together. We could have done better.” He also can’t forget how quickly things changed when Oswald opened fire. “One minute (Kennedy’s) so happy. They’re smiling and everybody’s happy. The crowd was happy,” he said. “And it was all just destroyed.” You have a very impressive assortment of Hargis interview source material compiled, Mr. Speer. The following Hargis quote about JFK's head exploding like a "ripe tomato" is the most detailed description of the debris field that struck him and those behind him (which would primarily be SSA Sam Kinney, the driver of the follow up car) that I have seen. Quote "...The second shot made his head like a ripe tomato when you shoot it with a gun on the ground. It explodes. That's how his head did. It exploded. Now you got brain matter, blood, and everything else on you" (6-26-95 video-taped interview with Mark Oakes and Ian Griggs) (On the explosion of Kennedy's head) "It didn't only hit me...It showered everything in the car behind it...You put a ripe tomato, and you shoot it with a gun and it splatters...." But this quote (in conjunction with many others which you can see below) highlights, exemplifies and underscores a fundamental problem for you and your fellow Zapruder film authenticity apologists: If we look closely at the headshot sequence of the Zapruder film in slow motion, as follows, we don't see any of the blood, brains and skull that Hargis described impacting his body. In the footage of the head shot sequence we see the blood halo cloud for one frame lasting 1/18 of one second, and the back of JFK's head, instead of showing the ejection of biological debris as reported by witnesses, a black patch appears over the occipital-parietal region, that by Zapruder film frame 317 has become a hexagon shaped d-max black patch with sharp edges, and no longer resembles the natural appearing shadow that we see on the back of JFK's head in Z-312: That same black patch is visible in all of the frames following Z-313 in which the back of JFK's head is visible as we see here in frames from Sidney Wilkinson and Thom Whitehead's 6k scans of the "Forensic Copy" of the Zapruder film they purchased from the National Archives: Nothing is seen exiting JFK's head, and close analysis of the trunk lid (which I have examined extensively using high-definition photographs) reveals no biological debris there either, even though we know that Jackie Kennedy retrieved a portion of skull and brain that, according to Dr. Ronald Jones, she turned over to one of the doctors at Parkland Hospital (and Clint Hill's WC testimony also describes him seeing Jackie go after biological debris on the trunk lid). _____________________ FROM A NEWSPAPER INTERVIEW OF DR. RONALD JONES: "...That day, [Dr. Ronald Jones] arrived in Trauma Room 1 just as the president was being wheeled in. The 15-square-foot room, which usually saw victims of car accidents or bar brawls, was quickly filling up with Secret Service agents, presidential handlers, doctors and nurses, he said. First lady Jacqueline Kennedy stood in a corner of the room, not crying but looking grim, her husband's blood still fresh on her pink wool outfit, Jones said. Earlier, when she first arrived at the hospital, she had handed another doctor a section of skull and some brain matter belonging to her husband that she had gathered from the limousine they were riding in, he said...." https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/07/kennedy-assassination-doctor-parkland/2609969/ _____________________ Now you may claim that Hargis merely drove his motorcycle into the red blood cloud that existed for 1/18th of one second and was impacted by the biological debris that way, but SSA Sam Kinney who was directly behind Bobby Hargis described to researcher Vince Palamara that the biological debris were blown out of the back of JFK's head, just as others have also described (See below): _____________________ "...I HAD BRAIN MATTER ALL OVER MY WINDSHIELD AND LEFT ARM, THAT'S HOW CLOSE WE WERE TO IT ... IT WAS THE RIGHT REAR PART OF HIS HEAD ... BECAUSE THAT'S THE PART I SAW BLOW OUT. I SAW HAIR COME OUT, THE PIECES BLOW OUT, THEN THE SKIN WENT BACK IN -- AN EXPLOSION IN AND OUT..." SECRET SERVICE AGENT SAM KINNEY, who was driving the follow up car: “I saw one shot strike the President in the right side of the head. The President then fell to the seat to the left toward Mrs. Kennedy.” [11/30/1963 Statement: CE1024: 18H731] "...I had brain matter all over my windshield and left arm, that's how close we were to it ... It was the right rear part of his head ... Because that's the part I saw blow out. I saw hair come out, the pieces blow out, then the skin went back in -- an explosion in and out..." [3/5/1994 interview by Vince Palamara] Secret Service Agent Samuel Kinney (3/5/1994 interview by Vince Palamara). _____________________ MORE ON THE DEBRIS FIELD BEHIND THE PRESIDENTIAL LIMOUSINE RESULTING FROM THE BLOOD, BRAIN AND SKULL BEING BLOWN OUT OF THE BACK OF JFK'S HEAD: Again, note that there are no pieces of skull or brain being "blasted out" of the back of JFK's head at Z-313 of the Zapruder film as there should be (See slow motion clip of Zapruder film headshot sequence above and below). Visible in the extant "original" Zapruder film is only a fine red mist suspended in the air for 1/18 of one second (frame Z-313 only), while all of the witnesses in real time on the ground in Dealey Plaza described an entirely different debris field consisting of voluminous blood, brain and skull that was blown out of the back of JFK's head (Charles Brehm: "IT SEEMED TO HAVE COME LEFT AND BACK"), not the front, as you can see from the witness accounts directly below. -------------------------------------------------------- WITNESS ACCOUNTS OF BLOOD AND BRAINS EXITING THE BACK OF JFK'S HEAD: Clint Hill, Samuel Kinney, Bobby Hargis, Bill Newman, Marilyn Willis, Harry Holmes, Charles Brehm, Abraham Zapruder, Erwin Schwartz and Dino Brugioni. __________ "...BLOOD, BRAIN MATTER, AND BONE FRAGMENTS EXPLODED FROM THE BACK OF THE PRESIDENT'S HEAD. THE PRESIDENT'S BLOOD, PARTS OF HIS SKULL, BITS OF HIS BRAIN WERE SPLATTERED ALL OVER ME -- ON MY FACE, MY CLOTHES, IN MY HAIR..." Secret Service Agent Clint Hill (in his 2012 book "Mrs. Kennedy and Me: An Intimate Memoir"). __________ "...I HAD BRAIN MATTER ALL OVER MY WINDSHIELD AND LEFT ARM, THAT'S HOW CLOSE WE WERE TO IT ... IT WAS THE RIGHT REAR PART OF HIS HEAD ... BECAUSE THAT'S THE PART I SAW BLOW OUT. I SAW HAIR COME OUT, THE PIECES BLOW OUT, THEN THE SKIN WENT BACK IN -- AN EXPLOSION IN AND OUT..." Secret Service Agent Samuel Kinney (3/5/1994 interview by Vince Palamara). __________ "...WHEN PRESIDENT KENNEDY STRAIGHTENED BACK UP IN THE CAR THE BULLET HIT HIM IN THE HEAD, THE ONE THAT KILLED HIM AND IT SEEMED LIKE HIS HEAD EXPLODED, AND I WAS SPLATTERED WITH BLOOD AND BRAIN, AND KIND OF A BLOODY WATER...." Dallas Motorcycle Patrolman Bobby Hargis (4/8/1964 Warren Commission testimony). __________ "...I CAN REMEMBER SEEING THE SIDE OF THE PRESIDENT'S EAR AND HEAD COME OFF. I REMEMBER A FLASH OF WHITE AND THE RED AND JUST BITS AND PIECES OF FLESH EXPLODING FROM THE PRESIDENT'S HEAD..." Dealey Plaza witness Bill Newman interviewed about the JFK assassination -- 0:13-0:27 -- https://youtu.be/EEhlbAwI7Zg?t=13 __________ "...THE HEAD SHOT SEEMED TO COME FROM THE RIGHT FRONT. IT SEEMED TO STRIKE HIM HERE [gesturing to her upper right forehead, up high at the hairline], AND HIS HEAD WENT BACK, AND ALL OF THE BRAIN MATTER WENT OUT THE BACK OF THE HEAD. IT WAS LIKE A RED HALO, A RED CIRCLE, WITH BRIGHT MATTER IN THE MIDDLE OF IT - IT JUST WENT LIKE THAT...." Dealey Plaza witness Marilyn Willis from 24:26-24:58 of TMWKK, Episode 1, at following link cued in advance for you https://youtu.be/BW98fHkbuD8?t=1466 ). __________ "...THERE WAS JUST A CONE OF BLOOD AND CORRUPTION THAT WENT RIGHT IN THE BACK OF HIS HEAD AND NECK. I THOUGHT IT WAS RED PAPER ON A FIRECRACKER. IT LOOKED LIKE A FIRECRACKER LIT UP WHICH LOOKS LIKE LITTLE BITS OF RED PAPER AS IT GOES UP. BUT IN REALITY IT WAS HIS SKULL AND BRAINS AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WENT PERHAPS AS MUCH AS SIX OR EIGHT FEET. JUST LIKE THAT!..." Dealey Plaza witness and Postal Inspector Harry Holmes. Murder from Within (1974), Fred Newcomb and Perry Adams, p. 213. __________ "...Charles Brehm: 0:21 WHEN THE SECOND BULLET HIT, THERE WAS, THE HAIR SEEMED TO GO FLYING. IT WAS VERY DEFINITE THEN THAT HE WAS STRUCK IN THE HEAD WITH THE SECOND BULLET, AND, UH, YES, I VERY DEFINITELY SAW THE EFFECT OF THE SECOND BULLET. Mark Lane: 0:38 Did you see any particles of the President's skull fly when the bullet struck him in the head? Charles Brehm: 0:46 I SAW A PIECE FLY OVER OH IN THE AREA OF THE CURB WHERE I WAS STANDING. Mark Lane: 0:53 In which direction did that fly? Charles Brehm: 0:56 IT SEEMED TO HAVE COME LEFT AND BACK...." Dealey Plaza witness Charles Brehm interviewed about JFK assassination by Mark Lane for the 1967 documentary "Rush to Judgment": https://youtu.be/RsnHXywKIKs __________ "...I SAW THE HEAD PRACTICALLY OPEN UP AND BLOOD AND MANY MORE THINGS, WHATEVER IT WAS, BRAINS, JUST CAME OUT OF HIS HEAD...." Testimony of Dealey Plaza witness Abraham Zapruder -- who filmed the assassination -- at the Clay Shaw trial -- https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/zapruder_shaw2.htm __________ "...I also asked him if he saw the explosion of blood and brains out of the head. He replied that he did. I asked him if he noticed which direction the eruption went. He pointed back over his left shoulder. He said, "IT WENT THIS WAY." I said, "You mean it went to the left and rear?" He said, "YES." Bartholomew then asked him, "Are you sure that you didn't see the blood and brains going up and to the front?" Schwartz said, "NO; IT WAS TO THE LEFT AND REAR...." Excerpt from interview of Erwin Schwartz -- Abraham Zapruder's business partner -- who accompanied Zapruder to develop the camera-original Zapruder film, and saw the camera-original projected more than a dozen times. Bloody Treason by Noel Twyman. __________ "...Brugioni's most vivid recollection of the Zapruder film was "...OF JFK'S BRAINS FLYING THROUGH THE AIR." He did not use the term 'head explosion,' but rather referred to apparent exit debris seen on the film the night he viewed it. "...AND WHAT I'LL NEVER FORGET WAS -- I KNEW THAT HE HAD BEEN ASSASSINATED -- BUT WHEN WE ROLLED THE FILM AND I SAW A GOOD PORTION OF HIS HEAD FLYING THROUGH THE AIR, THAT SHOCKED ME, AND THAT SHOCKED EVERYBODY WHO WAS THERE..." Excerpt from interview of Dino Brugioni -- Photoanalyst at the CIA's National Photographic Interpretation Center -- who viewed the camera-original Zapruder film the evening of 11/23/1963. Douglas Horne, Inside the Assassination Records Review Board" , 2009, Volume IV, Chapter 14, page 1329. __________ The secondary explanation of Zapruder film authenticity apologists for the absence of visible biological debris in the head shot sequence of the Zapruder film is that 8mm film is incapable of registering such minute details as blood, brain and skull, but this explanation is easily debunked by pointing out that the First Lady's red roses are easily discernable in the alleged extant "original" Zapruder film: __________ So what then, Mr. Speer, is your explanation for why the biological debris attested to above are not visible in the Zapruder film, and what is the d-max black hexagon shaped patch with sharp edges that we see so well in Zapruder frame 317 in particular? __________ Because Sydney Wilkinson and Thom Whitehead are professionals working within the film industry, they have been able to enlist true Hollywood experts in cinematography and postproduction who have performed content analysis of the extant Zapruder film. Among them are genuine cinematography professionals such as Ned Price (https://studentfilmreviews.org/?p=17707 ) and Paul Rutan, Jr. (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0751876/ ) who had the following to say about the Zapruder film. Look them up, they are the real deal. ------------------------------------------------ FILM INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS COMMENTING ABOUT Z-317 ------------------------------------------------ "...This extreme close-up from the HD scan of Zapruder frame 317 is what prompted one noted Hollywood expert in post-production -- Ned Price, the Head of Restoration at a major motion picture studio -- to say: "Oh that's horrible, that's just terrible. I can't believe it's such a bad fake." His film industry colleague, Paul Rutan, Jr., proclaimed we are looking at artwork in this frame (i.e., aerial imaging) -- not at "opticals" (i.e., traveling matte)...." Horne's "Inside the ARRB," Vol. 4, p. 1361. Even Rollie Zavada has acknowledged the black patch and conceded that "...it certainly looks like a patch; it looks like it could be an alteration...." Although Rollie Zavada is not and never claimed to be an expert on film alteration or cinematography. Zavada was a Kodak employee with expertise in Kodachrome II film, and thus is not qualified to evaluate the Zapruder film for content falsification, and the ARRB mandate that Zavada had did not include "content analysis" for which he is not qualified. Zavada authenticated that the extant Zapruder film is on Kodak Kodachrome II film -- which is no surprise given that Hawkeyeworks plant was a joint CIA/Kodak facility -- and then went beyond his expertise to claim that the film had not been altered. But as you can see below, even Rollie Zavada, viewing an inferior copy of Z-317, admitted that the black patch looks like an alteration, but not being an expert in film alteration, simply said he refused to believe it because he hadn't seen evidence of how it could have been done.... "It certainly looks like a patch; it looks like it could be an alteration. But I haven't seen evidence of how it was done, so I refuse to believe it." Having no expertise in film alteration whatsoever he resorted to blind faith in a sacred cow instead of following the evidence wherever it leads even though the Heavens may fall... -------------------------------------------------------------- DOUG HORNE TAKES ROLLIE ZAVADA TO TASK OVER ZAPRUDER FRAME 317 [THE BLACK PATCH SUPERIMPOSED OVER JFK'S OCCIPITAL BLOW OUT WOUND]: https://insidethearrb.livejournal.com/10709.html "...In the breakout session, when Josiah Thompson asked him to display the controversial frame 317 and comment on whether the black object covering the rear of JFK's head was a natural shadow or evidence of alteration, Rollie [Zavada] put up the slide (a very dark, muddy image of 317 with much contrast present---an image greatly inferior to the Hollywood scans of the forensic copy), and then said words to the effect: "It certainly looks like a patch; it looks like it could be an alteration. But I haven't seen evidence of how it was done, so I refuse to believe it." [This is very close to a verbatim quote---guaranteed to be accurate in its substance.] I and several others, including Leo Zahn of Hollywood, then suggested---demanded, actually---that Rollie display ALL of frame 317---not just the portion showing JFK's head. When this slide was finally displayed, I asked everyone present in the room what explanation those who were against alteration had for the extreme difference in density between the shadow on Governor Connally's head, and the extremely dense and dark (almost D-max) "anomaly" on JFK's head in that same frame. The two so-called "shadows" have absolutely no relation or similarity to each other, yet both men were photographed in the same frame, at the same instant in time, on the same planet, with the same light source (i.e., the sun). The ensuing silence was more profound than that inside the whale that swallowed Jonah. Rollie and Tink had no explanation for this. Nor does anyone else, who believes that the Zapruder film is an unaltered film. The most reasonable, and currently the only known explanation for this paradox in frame 317, is alteration---the blacking out of the true exit wound on the back of JFK's head in that frame, and in many others, with crude animation...." 'JOSIAH THOMPSON AND ROLLIE ZAVADA AT JFK LANCER: A CRITICAL REPORT' by Douglas P. Horne, author of Inside the Assassination Records Review Board. https://insidethearrb.livejournal.com/10709.html __________ Again, so what then, Mr. Speer, is your explanation for why the biological debris attested to above are not visible in the Zapruder film, and what is the d-max black hexagon shaped patch with sharp edges that we see so well in Zapruder frame 317 in particular? Edited January 25 by Keven Hofeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 10 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: Hey Jeremy, Nearly every Parkland doctor and nurse who saw the gaping wound on JFK's head (about 20 of them) said early on that it was on the back of the head. Not the top. Yet the back-of-head autopsy photos show no such thing. And neither does the Z film. In fact, the Z film shows a gaping wound that nobody at Parkland saw. How do you account for the discrepancies? Do you -- like Pat Speer -- believe that the Parkland doctors and nurses mass hallucinated the very same thing? A big hole on the back of the head when in fact it was on top of the head? (According to Pat, the WC, and HSCA?) Cut the B.S. I have never said anyone mass-hallucinated anything. I have said over and over again that the location of the head wound in the photos is deceptive, as there is a big flap at the crown of the head that may very well have flapped open when JFK was on his back at Parkland. As another flap, by the ear, was almost certainly closed at Parkland, the net effect would be to shift the appearance of the wound back two inches or so, when compared to the photos. I have also said, and no one has countered this, that people routinely make mistakes when trying to remember the appearance of rotated images. As JFK's head, normally viewed in the upright position, was viewed by all at Parkland in a prone position, and for at least part of the time tilted backwards, it is clear this would effect the ability of those viewing a hole surrounded by a bloody mess of hair from precisely recalling its location There are numerous articles on this in psychology magazines. It is not my theory. It is a scientific fact. So I believe that contributed to the confusion as well. While I think the flaps, and the rotation of the head, were factors in so many misidentifying the wound's location upon recall hours months and decades after the body was viewed, it seems clear to me the main factors were social factors. Kennedy's time at Parkland was stressful for everyone involved, and probably felt like a blur. Within a short time, before anyone had written a report, two esteemed doctors, Clark and Perry, held a press conference, in which they described the wounds. A few weeks later the reports of the doctors who'd written reports were published in a Texas medical journal, which was undoubtedly widely circulated within the hospital. As a consequence most everyone working there would have become familiarized with what the official story was and what they "should"have seen. And, being humans, they would accommodate this in their memories. Now, here, once again, I didn't make this up. This kind of stuff has been studied hundreds of times in hundreds of ways, and the result is always the same...people's memories change when exposed to the statements of others, true or not. One such study, for example, had people answer questions regarding a video they'd watched of a blue car running a stop sign, only the questions referred to the car as green. A week later, in a follow-up series of questions, the subjects were asked the color of the car in the video, and many said green. The asking of an inaccurate question had led them to recall something inaccurately. In any event, the witness pool at Parkland has been tainted from almost the start. Which brings me to a second point, Sandy. You keep saying that 20 witnesses said "early on" etc etc etc. What do you mean by that? What is early on? Most people selling the back of the head myth in books and articles have mixed in people who were barely involved who saw the body for a few seconds, and said nothing about it for decades, and present them as credible. Perhaps you could create us a list of the statements regarding the head wound in chronological order. Now that might prove helpful. Oh, wait, I already did that. It's in chapter 18c. Edited January 10 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) FWIW, Keven, I would be glad to accept that the black patch was painted in. But the Dealey Plaza witnesses--including and especially Hargis--are clear that the explosion of blood and brain occurred on the right side of the head, where it is shown in the films. It also makes little sense that they would paint over a hole on the back of the head but leave the gigantic exit defect alone. As stated ad nauseum, I combed through the history of wound ballistics and proved that M/C bullets don't go in small and explode skull into the sky, and that the only plausible explanation for a wound that massive was that is was not an exit related to the EOP entrance, but a tangential wound of both entrance and exit. Edited January 10 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pat Speer said: It also makes little sense that they would paint over a hole on the back of the head but leave the gigantic exit defect alone. Plus there's the always-ignored fact that Clint Hill's head (and others in the limo too) have the exact same degree of "blackness" in the Z-Film frames as does JFK's head --- as discussed HERE. So the CT Fantasists must also think Hill's head has been "blacked out" too (I guess). The "Fakery" craziness never ends. Edited January 10 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keven Hofeling Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 (edited) 3 hours ago, Pat Speer said: Cut the B.S. I have never said anyone mass-hallucinated anything. I have said over and over again that the location of the head wound in the photos is deceptive, as there is a big flap at the crown of the head that may very well have flapped open when JFK was on his back at Parkland. As another flap, by the ear, was almost certainly closed at Parkland, the net effect would be to shift the appearance of the wound back two inches or so, when compared to the photos. I have also said, and no has countered this, that people routinely make mistakes when trying to remember the appearance of rotated images. As JFK's head, normally viewed in the upright position, was viewed by all at Parkland in a prone position, and for at least part of the time tilted backwards, it is clear this would effect the ability of those viewing a hole surrounded by a bloody mess of hair from precisely recalling its location There are numerous articles on this in psychology magazines. It is not my theory. It is a scientific fact. So I believe that contributed to the confusion as well. While I think the flaps, and the rotation of the head, were factors in so many misidentifying the wound's location upon recall hours months and decades after the body was viewed, it seems clear to me the main factors were social factors. Kennedy's time at Parkland was stressful for everyone involved, and probably felt like a blur. Within a short time, before anyone had written a report, two esteemed doctors, Clark and Perry, held a press conference, in which they described the wounds. A few weeks later the reports of the doctors who'd written reports were published in a Texas medical journal, which was undoubtedly widely circulated within the hospital. As a consequence most everyone working there would have become familiarized with what the official story was an what they "should"have seen. And, being humans, they would accommodate this in their memories. Now, here, once again, I didn't make this up. This kind of stuff has been studied hundreds of times in hundreds of ways, and the result is always the same...people's memories change when exposed to the statements of others, true or not. One such study, for example, had people answer questions regarding a video they'd watched of a blue car running a stop sign, only the questions referred to the car as green. A week later, in a follow-up series of questions, the subjects were asked the color of the car in the video, and many said green. The asking of an inaccurate question had led them to recall something inaccurately. In any event, the witness pool at Parkland has been tainted from almost the start. Which brings me to a second point, Sandy. You keep saying that 20 witnesses said "early on" etc etc etc. What do you mean by that? What is early on? Most people selling the back of the head myth in books and articles have mixed in people who were barely involved who saw the body for a few seconds, and said nothing about it for decades, and present them as credible. Perhaps you could create us a list of the statements regarding the head wound in chronological order. Now that might prove helpful. Oh, wait, I already did that. It's in chapter 18c. Quote Cut the B.S. I have never said anyone mass-hallucinated anything. Yet, this is the implication of the claims of your project. You are alleging that all the Parkland doctors and nurses (as well as others like the Dealey Plaza and Bethesda autopsy witnesses) were all mistaken in virtually the exact same way. That doesn't happen in the real world and can only be explained by postulating some kind of mass hallucination which, of course, is impossible and absurd. Quote I have also said, and no has countered this, that people routinely make mistakes when trying to remember the appearance of rotated images. As JFK's head, normally viewed in the upright position, was viewed by all at Parkland in a prone position, and for at least part of the time tilted backwards, it is clear this would effect the ability of those viewing a hole surrounded by a bloody mess of hair from precisely recalling its location There are numerous articles on this in psychology magazines. It is not my theory. It is a scientific fact. So I believe that contributed to the confusion as well. Relevant to your theory that they were all mistaken in virtually the same way is the Elizabeth Loftus memory research which Dr. Gary Aguilar presented again in his recent review of the Parkland doctors documentary, as follows: ____________ MEMORY AND JFK HEAD WOUNDS -- ELIZABETH LOFTUS MEMORY RESEARCH -- AS PRESENTED BY DR. GARY AGUILAR "...There is another, evidence-based problem for those who argue that Parkland got it all wrong. Research has shown that experienced, credible witnesses working in their usual environment, simply do not make mistakes of this nature. Furthermore, how could a different group of credible witnesses at a multi-hour autopsy at a different location have made the same error as the Texans? Though witness claims are often disparaged as unreliable, the reigning authority on eyewitness testimony, Elizabeth Loftus, has reported that there are circumstances in which their reliability tends to be high.[13] She based her conclusions on evidence from a 1971 study. In a Harvard Law Review paper[14] Marshall, Marquis and Oskamp reported that, when test subjects were asked about “salient” details of a complex and novel film clip scene they were shown, their accuracy rate was high: 78% to 98%. Even when a detail was not considered salient, as judged by the witnesses themselves, they were still accurate 60% of the time. Loftus has identified the factors that tend to degrade witness accuracy, most of which are relevant to the Kennedy case. Principal among them are poor lighting, short duration of an event, or a long duration between the event and when a witness is asked questions about it, the unimportance of the event to the witness, the perceived threat of violence during the event, witness stress or drug/alcohol influence, and the absence of specialized training on the witness’s part. Absent these factors, Loftus’s work shows that witnesses are very reliable.[15] JFK’s skull damage would certainly have been considered a “salient detail” to the senior trauma surgeons in Trauma Room I, as well as the witnesses in the morgue. Negligible adverse circumstances were present in either location that would explain how both groups of witnesses might have erred. They were working as highly trained experts in their usual capacity, in their usual circumstances, and in their usual setting. Moreover, both groups had no reason to dissemble, and more than ample time and opportunity to make accurate observations, many of which were recorded immediately. Though the overwhelming odds are that they were right, Warren Commission loyalists are constrained to insist they were nearly 100% wrong, and somehow wrong in the same way. Their case hinges on the official autopsy photographs, which are regarded as unimpeachable proof the Parkland doctors were wrong. Presumably, they also prove that the autopsy witnesses were unimpeachably wrong, too: they show no damage to the right rear portion of JFK’s head...." ----------------------------- [13] Loftus, Elizabeth F. Eyewitness Testimony. Cambridge, Harvard University Press, 1996, p. 25 – 26. [14] Marshall, Marquis and Oskamp, Vol. 84:1620 - 1643, 1971. [15] E Loftus, JM Doyle. Eyewitness Testimony: Civil and Criminal, Second Edition. Charlottesville: The Michie Company, 1992 ---------------------- 'JFK: WHAT THE DOCTORS SAW - AN IMPORTANT ADDITION, AND A MISSED OPPORTUNITY' Written by Gary Aguilar | Thursday, 04 January 2024 04:08 | https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/jfk-what-the-doctors-saw-an-important-addition-and-a-missed-opportunity "Dr. Gary Aguilar examines and evaluates the evidence in the Paramount Plus special exposing the deceptions surrounding the false claims of the House Select Committee on the exit hole in the rear of Kennedy’s skull." ____________ Quote "While I think the flaps, and the rotation of the head, were factors in so many misidentifying the wound's location upon recall hours months and decades after the body was viewed..." None of the members of the Parkland trauma team reported a large blowout wound to the top or side of JFK's head (particularly Nurse Diana Bowron, who washed the dried blood out of JFK's hair, and did not encounter any kind of "flap" [See below]) nor did the pathologists or other witnesses at Bethesda (including the autopsy photographer, John Stringer, who told David Lifton that the large avulsive wound was in the BACK of the head; nor mortician Tom Robinson, who found only a puncture a quarter inch in diameter hidden in the hairline at JFK's right temple). The large frontal blowout appears only in the fraudulent Zapruder film. ____________ PARKLAND NURSE DIANA BOWRON -- WHO CLEANED THE DRIED BLOOD OUT OF JFK'S HAIR AND PACKED THE BOH WOUND WITH GAUZE -- ASSURED RESEARCHER HARRISON LIVINGSTONE UNEQUIVOCALLY THAT THERE WAS NO SWINGING BONE DOOR (OR FLAP) IN THE TOP OF JFK'S HEAD: https://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/QbgORExR/nurse-diana-bowron "...HL: Okay. If you can try to remember anybody taking pictures in there, photographs, it's very important because there's a reason to think that some of these autopsy pictures-I published a lot more of them in my last book-that they're not taken at Bethesda, you know. Now, do you think that any part of his face-like the right eye and the right forehead above it - did that sag in or was there any bone missing in that area? Did his face look so perfectly normal? Did you feel his face? HL: You washed his face? DB: I can't remember whether I washed it or Margaret washed it. I know I washed his hair. HL: Well, you would have noticed if a large piece of bone -- see, the X-rays, if you look at the X-rays in my book, they show the whole right front of the face is gone from the eye area. And the lateral view X-ray is not the same as the AP view. There's a lot more bone missing in the lateral view. But most of the-most of them have the whole right eye area, from the top of the orbit, at least, plus the forehead and the temporal bone is gone. DB: No, no. I mean, I would have noticed something like that. You know, to say his face looked like a dead body's face. You know, there was no injury to the face. HL: Yeah. DB: It was just to his-the back of his head. And the one in his, in his throat. But and by then it was the tracheostomy opening. But his face itself, no. HL: Okay. One more question about that. Do you remember any laceration across the scalp from front to back where it comes on to the forehead, where the scalp would have been lacerated and it goes straight back from that area? Picture the right eyebrow. A laceration about a half an inch into his forehead, and then going straight back, where the scalp was torn. Do you remember anything like that? DB: No. HL: You would have because you washed the hair, right? DB: Yes. When I say washed it, I just took cotton swabs and washed all the clotting blood off. I mean, I didn't shampoo it or anything. HL: So, in this massive hole, was there a flap of scalp there, or was scalp actually gone? DB: It was gone. Gone. There was nothing there. Just a big, gaping hole. HL: We're talking about scalp first, and then bone, right? DB: Yeah. There might have been little lumps of scalp, but most of the bone over the hole, there was no bone there. HL: Was there any part of a flap of scalp over that big defect in the bone missing? DB: What I'm saying is that the hole where the bone had gone, perhaps the skin was a little bit smaller, if you know what I mean, but only fractionally, just over the edge. HL: So the scalp was blown out, too? DB: Yes. HL: I don't know if I should ask you this question-but did you have enough experience either before or after to think that that was either an exit or an entry hole? DB: Well, to me it was an exit hole. HL: Yeah. DB: I mean, I've never seen one as big as that, but-..." https://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/QbgORExR/nurse-diana-bowron ____________ Quote "...[I]t seems clear to me the main factors were social factors. Kennedy's time at Parkland was stressful for everyone involved, and probably felt like a blur. Within a short time, before anyone had written a report, two esteemed doctors, Clark and Perry, held a press conference, in which they described the wounds. A few weeks later the reports of the doctors who'd written reports were published in a Texas medical journal, which was undoubtedly widely circulated within the hospital. As a consequence most everyone working there would have become familiarized with what the official story was an what they "should"have seen. And, being humans, they would accommodate this in their memories. Now, here, once again, I didn't make this up. This kind of stuff has been studied hundreds of times in hundreds of ways, and the result is always the same...people's memories change when exposed to the statements of others, true or not. One such study, for example, had people answer questions regarding a video they'd watched of a blue car running a stop sign, only the questions referred to the car as green. A week later, in a follow-up series of questions, the subjects were asked the color of the car in the video, and many said green. The asking of an inaccurate question had led them to recall something inaccurately. In any event, the witness pool at Parkland has been tainted from almost the start...." You are here providing an excellently articulated explanation for why many of the Dealey Plaza, Parkland Hospital and Bethesda autopsy witnesses, years later, modified their descriptions of JFK's head wounds when confronted with the autopsy photographs which appeared to them to put their credibility at risk. It seems comical to me that you understand this, and yet fail to apply the same explanation to the witnesses to which the explanation is most applicable, and instead attempt to apply it to the most credible witnesses of all in this case. The earliest reports of the head wound witnesses -- essentially all of them -- are the evidence to which it is most appropriate to attribute the greatest weight, particularly the first day Admission Notes of the Parkland doctors; and yes, that includes Dr. McClelland's Admission Note to which you have invested such a monumental effort to distort and malign. Quote Which brings me to a second point, Sandy. You keep saying that 20 witnesses said "early on" etc etc etc. What do you mean by that? What is early on? Most people selling the back of the head myth in books and articles have mixed in people who were barely involved who saw the body for a few seconds, and said nothing about it for decades, and present them as credible. Perhaps you could create us a list of the statements regarding the head wound in chronological order. Now that might prove helpful. I have seen Sandy many times present to you Dr. Gary Aguilar's list of the earliest wound testimonials on this forum, and you just ignore it exactly as you ignore the rebuttals of your claims about Dr. McClelland committing malpractice in his first day Admission Note by noting only one wound that did not exist (which is demonstrably untrue, as set forth by me and others elsewhere in this forum). So here again is Dr. Aguilar's compilation of the earliest testimony about JFK's large avulsive occipital-parietal wound. Not that you are going to acknowledge it, or respond to it, but so that others may once again observe your failed methodology which includes simply ignoring the most probative evidence that exists, which is the testimony and head wound diagrams that are earliest in time: ____________ ------------------------------------------------ This is a link to Dr. Gary Aguilar's compilation of the earliest testimony of the Parkland AND Bethesda witnesses -- http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm -- and the following chart is in part based upon the the witness accounts outlined in the article by Dr. Gary Aguilar: -------------------------------------------------- DR. GARY AGUILAR'S APPENDIX - TABLES AND FIGURES: https://history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_tabfig.htm ____________ And here is a link to Sandy's post in which he highlighted the relevant testimony of the earliest reports of the Parkland witnesses of an occipital-parietal head wound and extruding macerated cerebellum as presented in Dr. Gary Aguilars article: ____________ Even more important, and more probative of the question about the existence of a large avulsive head wound in the occipital-parietal region of the right side of the back of JFK's head are the first day Admission Notes of the Parkland doctors, which are conclusive evidence of the back of the head wound. I predict that in any Federal District Court in the United States this first day expert testimonial evidence would be adjudicated as being the most definitive evidence as to the existence and nature of the wound: ____________ COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 392: APPENDIX VIII - MEDICAL REPORTS FROM DOCTORS AT PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, DALLAS, TEXAS: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/jfkinfo/app8.htm Summary (By Dr. Kemp Clark) The President arrived at the Emergency Room at 12:43 P. M., the 22nd of November, 1963. He was in the back seat of his limousine. Governor Connally of Texas was also in this car. The first physician to see the President was Dr. James Carrico, a Resident in General Surgery. Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agenal respiratory efforts. He could hear a heartbeat but found no pulse or blood pressure to be present. Two external wounds, one in the lower third of the anterior neck, the other in the occipital region of the skull, were noted. Through the head wound, blood and brain were extruding. Dr. Carrico inserted a cuffed endotracheal tube. While doing so, he noted a ragged wound of the trachea immediately below the larynx. At this time, Dr. Malcolm Perry, Attending Surgeon, Dr. Charles Baxter, Attending Surgeon, and Dr. Ronald Jones, another Resident in General Surgery, arrived. Immediately thereafter, Dr. M. T. Jenkins, Director of the Department of Anesthesia, and Doctors Giesecke and Hunt, two other Staff Anesthesiologists, arrived. The endotracheal tube had been connected to a Bennett respirator to assist the President's breathing. An Anesthesia machine was substituted for this by Dr. Jenkins. Only 100% oxygen was administered. A cutdown was performed in the right ankle, and a polyethylene catheter inserted in the vein. An infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was begun. Blood was drawn for type and crossmatch, but unmatched type "O" RH negative blood was immediately obtained and begun. Hydrocortisone 300 mgms was added to the intravenous fluids. Dr. Robert McClelland, Attending Surgeon, arrived to help in the President's care. Doctors Perry, Baxter, and McClelland began a tracheostomy, as considerable quantities of blood were present from the President's oral pharynx. At this time, Dr. Paul Peters, Attending Urological Surgeon, and Dr. Kemp Clark, Director of Neurological Surgery arrived. Because of the lacerated trachea, anterior chest tubes were place in both pleural spaces. These were connected to sealed underwater drainage. Neurological examination revealed the President's pupils to be widely dialted and fixed to light. His eyes were divergent, being deviated outward; a skew deviation from the horizontal was present. Not deep tendon reflexes or spontaneous movements were found. There was a large wound in the right occipito-parietal region, from which profuse bleeding was occurring. 1500 cc. of blood were estimated on the drapes and floor of the Emergency Operating Room. There was considerable loss of scalp and bone tissue. Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound. Further examination was not possible as cardiac arrest occurred at this point. Closed chest cardiac massage was begun by Dr. Clark. A pulse palpable in both the carotid and femoral arteries was obtained. Dr. Perry relieved on the cardiac massage while a cardiotachioscope was connected. Dr. Fouad Bashour, Attending Physician, arrived as this was being connected. There was electrical silence of the President's heart. President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1300 hours by Dr. Clark Kemp Clark, M. D. Director Service of Neurological Surgery KC:aa cc to Dean's Office, Southwestern Medical School cc to Medical Records, Parkland Memorial Hospital ______________________________________________________________________________________ PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE J. F. KENNEDY DATE AND HOUR 11/22/63 1620 DOCTOR: Carrico When patient entered Emergency room on ambulance carriage had slow agonal respiratory efforts and scant cardiac beats by auscultation. Two external wounds were noted. One small penetrating wound of ant. neck in lower 1/3. The other wound had avulsed the calvarium and shredded brain tissue present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted and through the laryngoscope a ragged wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was passed past the laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration using the resp assistor on auto-matic were instituted. Concurrently an IV infusion of lactated Ringer solution was begun via catheter placed in right leg and blood was drawn for type and crossmatch. Type O Rh negative blood was obtained as well as hydrocortisone. In view of tracheal injury and decreased BS an tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Perry and Bilat. chest tubes inserted. A 2nd bld infusion was begun in left arm. In addition Dr. Jenkins began resp with anethesia machine, cardiac monitor, and stimulator attached. Solu cortef IV given (300mg), attempt to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via packs instituted. Despite these measures as well as external cardiac massage, BP never returned and EKG evidence of cardiac activity was never obtained. Charles J. Carrico M.D. PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE J. F. KENNEDY DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: PERRY Staff Note At the time of initial examination, the pt. was noted as non-responsive. The eyes were deviated and the pupils were dilated. A considerable quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage and the floor. A small wound was noted in the midline of the neck, in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage. Pulse or heartbeat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being assisted. An intravenous infusion was being placed in the leg. At this point I noted that respiration was ineffective and while additional venisections were done to administer fluids and blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The tracheostomy tube was put in place and the cuff inflated and respiration assisted. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of sealed drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. Electrocardiographic evaluation revealed that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart. Resuscitation attempts were abandoned after the team of physicians determined that the patient had expired. Malcolm O. Perry, M.D. 1630 hr 22 Nov 1963 PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE DATE AND HOUR NOV 22, 1963 DOCTOR: BAXTER Note of Attendance to President Kennedy. I was contacted at approx 12:40 that the President was on the way to the emergency room having been shot. On arrival there, I found an endotracheal tube in place with assisted respirations, a left chest tube being inserted and cut downs going in one leg and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the mid-line of the neck. On first observation of the remaining wounds the rt temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table, with .extensive lacerations and contusions. The pupils were fixed and deviated lateral and dilated. No pulse was detectable and respirations were (as noted) being supplied. A tracheotomy was performed by Dr. Perry and I and a chest tube inserted into the right chest (2nd intercostal space anteriorally). Meanwhile, 2 pts of O neg blood were administered by pump without response. When all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Close chest message was performed until a cardioscope could be attached which revealed no cardiac activity was obtained. Due to the excessive and irreparable brain damage which was lethal, no further attempt to resuscitate the heart was made. Charles R. Baxter M.D. Associate Prof of Surgery Southwestern Medical School PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE JOHN F. KENNEDY DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: [KEMP CLARK] 12:20pm to 13:00 hrs Called by EOR while standing in (illegible) Laboratory at SWMS. Told that the President had been shot. I arrived at the EOR at 1220 - 1225 and .The President was bleeding profusely from the back of the head. There was a large (3 x 3cm) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also. A tracheostomy was being performed by Drs. Perry, Baxter and McClelland. Exam of the President showed that an endotracheal tube was in place and respiratory assistance was being given by Dr. Akins and Jenkins. The pupils were dilated, fixed to light and his eyes were deviated outward and the right one downward as as well . The trach was completed and I adjusted the endotracheal tube a little bit. Blood was present in the oral pharynx. Suction was used to remove this. Levine Catheter was passed into the stomach at this time. He was (illegible) that I (illegible) no carotid pulse. I immediately began closed chest massage. A pulse was obtained at the carotid and femoral pulse levels. Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so I could evaluate the head wound. There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region. Much of the skull appeared gone at brief examination . The previously described lacerated brain was present. By this time an EKG was hooked up. There was no electrical activity of the heart and no respiratory effort - He was pronounced dead at 1300 hrs by me. W. Kemp Clark 22 Nov 1963 1615 hrs - PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: Robert N. McClelland Statement Regarding Assassination of President Kennedy At approximately 12:45 PM on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico, and Ronald Jones. The President was at the time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr. Carrico on Duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and I then performed a tracheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Dr. Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. Simultaneously Dr. Jones had started 3 cut-downs giving blood and fluids immediately, In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr. Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac message failed and ECG activity was gone. Robert N. McClelland M.D. Asst. Prof. of Surgery Southwestern Med. School of Univ of Tex. Dallas, Texas PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: BASHOUR Statement Regarding Assassination of the President of the U.S.A., President Kennedy. At 12:50 PM, we were called from the 1st floor of Parkland Hospital and told that President Kennedy was shot. Dr. D ?? and myself went to the emergency room of Parkland. Upon examination, the President had no pulsation, no heartbeat, no blood pressure. The oscilloscope showed a complete standstill. The president was declared dead at 12:55 P.M. F. Bashour M.D. Associate Professor of Cardiology Southwestern Medical School Dallas, Texas. THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS SOUTHWESTERN MEDICAL SCHOOL DALLAS November 22, 1963 1630 To: Mr. C.J. Price, Administrator Parkland Memorial Hospital From: M.T. Jenkins, M.D., Professor and Chairman Department of Anesthesiology Subject: Statement concerning resusciative efforts for President John F. Kennedy Upon receiving a stat alarm that this distinguished patient was being brought to the emergency room at Parkland Memorial Hospital, I dispatched Doctors A . H. Giesecke and Jackie H. Hunt with an anesthesia machine and resuscitative equipment to the major surgical emergency room area, and I ran down the stairs . On my arrival in the emergency operating room at approximately 1230 I found that Doctors Carrico and/or Delaney had begun resuscitative efforts by introducing an orotracheal tube, connecting it for controlled ventilation to a Bennett intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus . Doctors Charles Baxter, Malcolm Perry, and Robert McClelland arrived at the same time and began a tracheostomy and started the insertion of a right chest tube, since there was also obvious tracheal and chest damage . Doctors Paul Peters and Kemp Clark arrived simultaneously and immediately thereafter assisted respectively with the insertion of the right chest tube and with manual closed chest cardiac compression to assure circulation. For better control of artificial ventilation, I exchanged the intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus for an anesthesia machine and continued artificial ventilation . Doctors Gene Akin and A . H. Giesecke assisted with the respiratory problems incident to changing from the orotracheal tube to a tracheostomy tube, and Doctors Hunt and Giesecke connected a cardioscope to determine cardiac activity. During the progress of these activities, the emergency room cart was elevated at the feet in order to provide a Trendelenburg position, a venous cutdown was performed on the right saphenous vein, and additional fluids were begun in a vein in the left forearm while blood was ordered from the blood bank . All of these activities were completed by approximately 1245, at which time external cardiac massage was still being carried out effectively by Doctor Clark as judged by a palpable peripheral pulse. Despite these measures there was no electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity . These described resuscitative activities were indicated as of first importance, and after they were carried out attention was turned to all other evidences of injury . There was a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital), causing a great defect in the skull plate so that there was herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the extent that the cerebellum had protruded from the wound. There were also fragmented sections of brain on the drapes of the emergency room cart . With the institution of adequate cardiac compression, there was a great flow of blood from the cranial cavity, indicating that there was much vascular damage as well as brain tissue damage . It is my personal feeling that all methods of resuscitation were instituted expeditiously and efficiently . However, this cranial and intracranial damage was of such magnitude as to cause the irreversible damage . President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1300 . Sincerely, /s/ M. T. Jenkins M. T. Jenkins, M.D . ____________ Mr. Speer, the only way around these first day Admission Notes is to claim that all of these doctors, seasoned in a busy metropolitan hospital where they treated gunshot wounds on a daily basis, were all suffering from a mass hallucination. The idea that they were all mistaken in virtually the exact same way is patently absurd, and an insult to the intelligence of the Parkland Hospital trauma team, and to all of those you are trying to peddle your mythical rewrite of the best evidence. Edited January 11 by Keven Hofeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 hours ago, Pat Speer said: Cut the B.S. I have never said anyone mass-hallucinated anything. You claim that those ~20 Parkland doctors and nurses saw the gaping hole on the back of the head when in reality it was on the top of the head. Seeing something that is not there is called a hallucination. (Look up the definition.) When many people hallucinate the same thing, it's called a mass hallucination. (Look up the definition.) Hallucination isn't necessarily caused by a mental illness. My use of the phrase "mass hallucination" is merely an abbreviated way to say what you say in several sentences. 3 hours ago, Pat Speer said: I have said over and over again that the location of the head wound in the photos is deceptive, as there is a big flap at the crown of the head that may very well have flapped open when JFK was on his back at Parkland. As another flap, by the ear, was almost certainly closed at Parkland, the net effect would be to shift the appearance of the wound back two inches or so, when compared to the photos. Of all people, doctors will note the correct location of something on the body and will not confuse the top of the head with the back of the head. And besides, the nurses preparing the body to be shipped had the body upright and noted the location on the back of the head, just as the doctors did. 3 hours ago, Pat Speer said: I have also said, and no one has countered this, that people routinely make mistakes when trying to remember the appearance of rotated images. Maybe one or two people do make such a mistake. But not 20 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 hours ago, Pat Speer said: It also makes little sense that they would paint over a hole on the back of the head but leave the gigantic exit defect alone. What? Of course it makes sense that they would cover up the hole in the back and paint a new hole on the upper right side... so that it would be consistent with the "lone nut shooting from behind" narrative. That was the whole point of the cover-up Pat. You are being duped by the cover-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 5 minutes ago, Keven Hofeling said: Yet, this is the implication of the claims of your project. You are alleging that all the Parkland doctors and nurses (as well as others like the Dealey Plaza and Bethesda autopsy witnesses were all mistaken in virtually the exact same way). That doesn't happen in the real world, and can only be explained by postulating some kind of mass hallucination which, of course, is impossible and absurd. Relevant to your theory that they were all mistaken in virtually the same way is the Elizabeth Loftus memory research which Dr. Gary Aguilar presented again in his recent review of the Parkland doctors documentary, as follows: ____________ MEMORY AND JFK HEAD WOUNDS -- ELIZABETH LOFTUS MEMORY RESEARCH -- AS PRESENTED BY DR. GARY AGUILAR "...There is another, evidence-based problem for those who argue that Parkland got it all wrong. Research has shown that experienced, credible witnesses working in their usual environment, simply do not make mistakes of this nature. Furthermore, how could a different group of credible witnesses at a multi-hour autopsy at a different location have made the same error as the Texans? Though witness claims are often disparaged as unreliable, the reigning authority on eyewitness testimony, Elizabeth Loftus, has reported that there are circumstances in which their reliability tends to be high.[13] She based her conclusions on evidence from a 1971 study. In a Harvard Law Review paper[14] Marshall, Marquis and Oskamp reported that, when test subjects were asked about “salient” details of a complex and novel film clip scene they were shown, their accuracy rate was high: 78% to 98%. Even when a detail was not considered salient, as judged by the witnesses themselves, they were still accurate 60% of the time. Loftus has identified the factors that tend to degrade witness accuracy, most of which are relevant to the Kennedy case. Principal among them are poor lighting, short duration of an event, or a long duration between the event and when a witness is asked questions about it, the unimportance of the event to the witness, the perceived threat of violence during the event, witness stress or drug/alcohol influence, and the absence of specialized training on the witness’s part. Absent these factors, Loftus’s work shows that witnesses are very reliable.[15] JFK’s skull damage would certainly have been considered a “salient detail” to the senior trauma surgeons in Trauma Room I, as well as the witnesses in the morgue. Negligible adverse circumstances were present in either location that would explain how both groups of witnesses might have erred. They were working as highly trained experts in their usual capacity, in their usual circumstances, and in their usual setting. Moreover, both groups had no reason to dissemble, and more than ample time and opportunity to make accurate observations, many of which were recorded immediately. Though the overwhelming odds are that they were right, Warren Commission loyalists are constrained to insist they were nearly 100% wrong, and somehow wrong in the same way. Their case hinges on the official autopsy photographs, which are regarded as unimpeachable proof the Parkland doctors were wrong. Presumably, they also prove that the autopsy witnesses were unimpeachably wrong, too: they show no damage to the right rear portion of JFK’s head...." ----------------------------- [13] Loftus, Elizabeth F.Eyewitness Testimony. Cambridge, Harvard University Press, 1996, p. 25 – 26. [14] Marshall, Marquis and Oskamp, Vol.84:1620 - 1643, 1971. [15] E Loftus, JM Doyle.Eyewitness Testimony: Civil and Criminal, Second Edition. Charlottesville:The Michie Company, 1992 ---------------------- 'JFK: WHAT THE DOCTORS SAW - AN IMPORTANT ADDITION, AND A MISSED OPPORTUNITY' Written by Gary Aguilar | Thursday, 04 January 2024 04:08 | https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/jfk-what-the-doctors-saw-an-important-addition-and-a-missed-opportunity "Dr. Gary Aguilar examines and evaluates the evidence in the Paramount Plus special exposing the deceptions surrounding the false claims of the House Select Committee on the exit hole in the rear of Kennedy’s skull." ____________ None of the members of the Parkland trauma team reported a large blowout wound to the top or side of JFK's head (particularly Nurse Diana Bowron, who washed the dried blood out of JFK's hair, and did not encounter any kind of "flap" [See below]) nor did the pathologists or other witnesses at Bethesda (including the autopsy photographer, John Stringer, who told David Lifton that the large avulsive wound was in the BACK of the head; nor mortician Tom Robinson, who found only a puncture a quarter inch in diameter hidden in the hairline at JFK's right temple). The large frontal blowout appears only in the fraudulent Zapruder film. ____________ PARKLAND NURSE DIANA BOWRON -- WHO CLEANED THE DRIED BLOOD OUT OF JFK'S HAIR AND PACKED THE BOH WOUND WITH GAUZE -- ASSURED RESEARCHER HARRISON LIVINGSTONE UNEQUIVOCALLY THAT THERE WAS NO SWINGING BONE DOOR (OR FLAP) IN THE TOP OF JFK'S HEAD: https://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/QbgORExR/nurse-diana-bowron "...HL: Okay. If you can try to remember anybody taking pictures in there, photographs, it's very important because there's a reason to think that some of these autopsy pictures-I published a lot more of them in my last book-that they're not taken at Bethesda, you know. Now, do you think that any part of his face-like the right eye and the right forehead above it - did that sag in or was there any bone missing in that area? Did his face look so perfectly normal? Did you feel his face? HL: You washed his face? DB: I can't remember whether I washed it or Margaret washed it. I know I washed his hair. HL: Well, you would have noticed if a large piece of bone -- see, the X-rays, if you look at the X-rays in my book, they show the whole right front of the face is gone from the eye area. And the lateral view X-ray is not the same as the AP view. There's a lot more bone missing in the lateral view. But most of the-most of them have the whole right eye area, from the top of the orbit, at least, plus the forehead and the temporal bone is gone. DB: No, no. I mean, I would have noticed something like that. You know, to say his face looked like a dead body's face. You know, there was no injury to the face. HL: Yeah. DB: It was just to his-the back of his head. And the one in his, in his throat. But and by then it was the tracheostomy opening. But his face itself, no. HL: Okay. One more question about that. Do you remember any laceration across the scalp from front to back where it comes on to the forehead, where the scalp would have been lacerated and it goes straight back from that area? Picture the right eyebrow. A laceration about a half an inch into his forehead, and then going straight back, where the scalp was torn. Do you remember anything like that? DB: No. HL: You would have because you washed the hair, right? DB: Yes. When I say washed it, I just took cotton swabs and washed all the clotting blood off. I mean, I didn't shampoo it or anything. HL: So, in this massive hole, was there a flap of scalp there, or was scalp actually gone? DB: It was gone. Gone. There was nothing there. Just a big, gaping hole. HL: We're talking about scalp first, and then bone, right? DB: Yeah. There might have been little lumps of scalp, but most of the bone over the hole, there was no bone there. HL: Was there any part of a flap of scalp over that big defect in the bone missing? DB: What I'm saying is that the hole where the bone had gone, perhaps the skin was a little bit smaller, if you know what I mean, but only fractionally, just over the edge. HL: So the scalp was blown out, too? DB: Yes. HL: I don't know if I should ask you this question-but did you have enough experience either before or after to think that that was either an exit or an entry hole? DB: Well, to me it was an exit hole. HL: Yeah. DB: I mean, I've never seen one as big as that, but-..." https://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/QbgORExR/nurse-diana-bowron ____________ You are here providing an excellently articulated explanation for why many of the Dealey Plaza, Parkland Hospital and Bethesda autopsy witnesses years later modified their descriptions of JFK's head wounds when confronted with the autopsy photographs which appeared to them to put their credibility at risk. It seems comical to me that you understand this, and yet fail to apply the same explanation to the witnesses to which the explanation is most applicable, and instead attempt to apply it to the most credible witnesses of all in this case. The earliest reports of the head wound witnesses -- essentially all of them -- are the evidence to which it is most appropriate to attribute the greatest weight, particularly the first day Admission Notes of the Parkland doctors; and yes, that includes Dr. McClelland's Admission Note to which you have invested such a monumental effort to distort and malign. I have seen Sandy many times present to you Dr. Gary Aguilar's list of the earliest wound testimonials on this forum, and you just ignore it exactly as you ignore the rebuttals of your claims about Dr. McClelland committing malpractice in his first day Admission Note by noting only one wound that did not exist (which is demonstrably untrue, as set forth by me and others elsewhere in this forum). So here again is Dr. Aguilar's compilation of the earliest testimony about JFK's large avulsive occipital-parietal wound. Not that you are going to acknowledge it, or respond to it, but so that others may once again observe your failed methodology which includes simply ignoring the most probative evidence that exists, which is the testimony and head wound diagrams that are earliest in time: ____________ ------------------------------------------------ This is a link to Dr. Gary Aguilar's compilation of the earliest testimony of the Parkland AND Bethesda witnesses -- http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm -- and the following chart is in part based upon the the witness accounts outlined in the article by Dr. Gary Aguilar: -------------------------------------------------- DR. GARY AGUILAR'S APPENDIX - TABLES AND FIGURES: https://history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_tabfig.htm ____________ And here is a link to Sandy's post in which he highlighted the relevant testimony of the earliest reports of the Parkland witnesses of an occipital-parietal head wound and extruding macerated cerebellum as presented in Dr. Gary Aguilars article: ____________ Even more important, and more probative of the question about the existence of a large avulsive head wound in the occipital-parietal region of the right side of the back of JFK's head are the first day Admission Notes of the Parkland doctors, which are conclusive evidence of the back of the head wound, which I predict that in any Federal District Court in the United States would be adjudicated as being the most definitive evidence as to the existence and nature of the wound: ____________ COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 392: APPENDIX VIII - MEDICAL REPORTS FROM DOCTORS AT PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, DALLAS, TEXAS: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/jfkinfo/app8.htm Summary (By Dr. Kemp Clark) The President arrived at the Emergency Room at 12:43 P. M., the 22nd of November, 1963. He was in the back seat of his limousine. Governor Connally of Texas was also in this car. The first physician to see the President was Dr. James Carrico, a Resident in General Surgery. Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agenal respiratory efforts. He could hear a heartbeat but found no pulse or blood pressure to be present. Two external wounds, one in the lower third of the anterior neck, the other in the occipital region of the skull, were noted. Through the head wound, blood and brain were extruding. Dr. Carrico inserted a cuffed endotracheal tube. While doing so, he noted a ragged wound of the trachea immediately below the larynx. At this time, Dr. Malcolm Perry, Attending Surgeon, Dr. Charles Baxter, Attending Surgeon, and Dr. Ronald Jones, another Resident in General Surgery, arrived. Immediately thereafter, Dr. M. T. Jenkins, Director of the Department of Anesthesia, and Doctors Giesecke and Hunt, two other Staff Anesthesiologists, arrived. The endotracheal tube had been connected to a Bennett respirator to assist the President's breathing. An Anesthesia machine was substituted for this by Dr. Jenkins. Only 100% oxygen was administered. A cutdown was performed in the right ankle, and a polyethylene catheter inserted in the vein. An infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was begun. Blood was drawn for type and crossmatch, but unmatched type "O" RH negative blood was immediately obtained and begun. Hydrocortisone 300 mgms was added to the intravenous fluids. Dr. Robert McClelland, Attending Surgeon, arrived to help in the President's care. Doctors Perry, Baxter, and McClelland began a tracheostomy, as considerable quantities of blood were present from the President's oral pharynx. At this time, Dr. Paul Peters, Attending Urological Surgeon, and Dr. Kemp Clark, Director of Neurological Surgery arrived. Because of the lacerated trachea, anterior chest tubes were place in both pleural spaces. These were connected to sealed underwater drainage. Neurological examination revealed the President's pupils to be widely dialted and fixed to light. His eyes were divergent, being deviated outward; a skew deviation from the horizontal was present. Not deep tendon reflexes or spontaneous movements were found. There was a large wound in the right occipito-parietal region, from which profuse bleeding was occurring. 1500 cc. of blood were estimated on the drapes and floor of the Emergency Operating Room. There was considerable loss of scalp and bone tissue. Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound. Further examination was not possible as cardiac arrest occurred at this point. Closed chest cardiac massage was begun by Dr. Clark. A pulse palpable in both the carotid and femoral arteries was obtained. Dr. Perry relieved on the cardiac massage while a cardiotachioscope was connected. Dr. Fouad Bashour, Attending Physician, arrived as this was being connected. There was electrical silence of the President's heart. President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1300 hours by Dr. Clark Kemp Clark, M. D. Director Service of Neurological Surgery KC:aa cc to Dean's Office, Southwestern Medical School cc to Medical Records, Parkland Memorial Hospital _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE J. F. KENNEDY DATE AND HOUR 11/22/63 1620 DOCTOR: Carrico When patient entered Emergency room on ambulance carriage had slow agonal respiratory efforts and scant cardiac beats by auscultation. Two external wounds were noted. One small penetrating wound of ant. neck in lower 1/3. The other wound had avulsed the calvarium and shredded brain tissue present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted and through the laryngoscope a ragged wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was passed past the laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration using the resp assistor on auto-matic were instituted. Concurrently an IV infusion of lactated Ringer solution was begun via catheter placed in right leg and blood was drawn for type and crossmatch. Type O Rh negative blood was obtained as well as hydrocortisone. In view of tracheal injury and decreased BS an tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Perry and Bilat. chest tubes inserted. A 2nd bld infusion was begun in left arm. In addition Dr. Jenkins began resp with anethesia machine, cardiac monitor, and stimulator attached. Solu cortef IV given (300mg), attempt to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via packs instituted. Despite these measures as well as external cardiac massage, BP never returned and EKG evidence of cardiac activity was never obtained. Charles J. Carrico M.D. PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE J. F. KENNEDY DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: PERRY Staff Note At the time of initial examination, the pt. was noted as non-responsive. The eyes were deviated and the pupils were dilated. A considerable quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage and the floor. A small wound was noted in the midline of the neck, in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage. Pulse or heartbeat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being assisted. An intravenous infusion was being placed in the leg. At this point I noted that respiration was ineffective and while additional venisections were done to administer fluids and blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The tracheostomy tube was put in place and the cuff inflated and respiration assisted. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of sealed drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. Electrocardiographic evaluation revealed that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart. Resuscitation attempts were abandoned after the team of physicians determined that the patient had expired. Malcolm O. Perry, M.D. 1630 hr 22 Nov 1963 PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE DATE AND HOUR NOV 22, 1963 DOCTOR: BAXTER Note of Attendance to President Kennedy. I was contacted at approx 12:40 that the President was on the way to the emergency room having been shot. On arrival there, I found an endotracheal tube in place with assisted respirations, a left chest tube being inserted and cut downs going in one leg and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the mid-line of the neck. On first observation of the remaining wounds the rt temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table, with .extensive lacerations and contusions. The pupils were fixed and deviated lateral and dilated. No pulse was detectable and respirations were (as noted) being supplied. A tracheotomy was performed by Dr. Perry and I and a chest tube inserted into the right chest (2nd intercostal space anteriorally). Meanwhile, 2 pts of O neg blood were administered by pump without response. When all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Close chest message was performed until a cardioscope could be attached which revealed no cardiac activity was obtained. Due to the excessive and irreparable brain damage which was lethal, no further attempt to resuscitate the heart was made. Charles R. Baxter M.D. Associate Prof of Surgery Southwestern Medical School PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE JOHN F. KENNEDY DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: [KEMP CLARK] 12:20pm to 13:00 hrs Called by EOR while standing in (illegible) Laboratory at SWMS. Told that the President had been shot. I arrived at the EOR at 1220 - 1225 and .The President was bleeding profusely from the back of the head. There was a large (3 x 3cm) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also. A tracheostomy was being performed by Drs. Perry, Baxter and McClelland. Exam of the President showed that an endotracheal tube was in place and respiratory assistance was being given by Dr. Akins and Jenkins. The pupils were dilated, fixed to light and his eyes were deviated outward and the right one downward as as well . The trach was completed and I adjusted the endotracheal tube a little bit. Blood was present in the oral pharynx. Suction was used to remove this. Levine Catheter was passed into the stomach at this time. He was (illegible) that I (illegible) no carotid pulse. I immediately began closed chest massage. A pulse was obtained at the carotid and femoral pulse levels. Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so I could evaluate the head wound. There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region. Much of the skull appeared gone at brief examination . The previously described lacerated brain was present. By this time an EKG was hooked up. There was no electrical activity of the heart and no respiratory effort - He was pronounced dead at 1300 hrs by me. W. Kemp Clark 22 Nov 1963 1615 hrs - PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: Robert N. McClelland Statement Regarding Assassination of President Kennedy At approximately 12:45 PM on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico, and Ronald Jones. The President was at the time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr. Carrico on Duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and I then performed a tracheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Dr. Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. Simultaneously Dr. Jones had started 3 cut-downs giving blood and fluids immediately, In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr. Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac message failed and ECG activity was gone. Robert N. McClelland M.D. Asst. Prof. of Surgery Southwestern Med. School of Univ of Tex. Dallas, Texas PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: BASHOUR Statement Regarding Assassination of the President of the U.S.A., President Kennedy. At 12:50 PM, we were called from the 1st floor of Parkland Hospital and told that President Kennedy was shot. Dr. D ?? and myself went to the emergency room of Parkland. Upon examination, the President had no pulsation, no heartbeat, no blood pressure. The oscilloscope showed a complete standstill. The president was declared dead at 12:55 P.M. F. Bashour M.D. Associate Professor of Cardiology Southwestern Medical School Dallas, Texas. THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS SOUTHWESTERN MEDICAL SCHOOL DALLAS November 22, 1963 1630 To: Mr. C.J. Price, Administrator Parkland Memorial Hospital From: M.T. Jenkins, M.D., Professor and Chairman Department of Anesthesiology Subject: Statement concerning resusciative efforts for President John F. Kennedy Upon receiving a stat alarm that this distinguished patient was being brought to the emergency room at Parkland Memorial Hospital, I dispatched Doctors A . H. Giesecke and Jackie H. Hunt with an anesthesia machine and resuscitative equipment to the major surgical emergency room area, and I ran down the stairs . On my arrival in the emergency operating room at approximately 1230 I found that Doctors Carrico and/or Delaney had begun resuscitative efforts by introducing an orotracheal tube, connecting it for controlled ventilation to a Bennett intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus . Doctors Charles Baxter, Malcolm Perry, and Robert McClelland arrived at the same time and began a tracheostomy and started the insertion of a right chest tube, since there was also obvious tracheal and chest damage . Doctors Paul Peters and Kemp Clark arrived simultaneously and immediately thereafter assisted respectively with the insertion of the right chest tube and with manual closed chest cardiac compression to assure circulation. For better control of artificial ventilation, I exchanged the intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus for an anesthesia machine and continued artificial ventilation . Doctors Gene Akin and A . H. Giesecke assisted with the respiratory problems incident to changing from the orotracheal tube to a tracheostomy tube, and Doctors Hunt and Giesecke connected a cardioscope to determine cardiac activity. During the progress of these activities, the emergency room cart was elevated at the feet in order to provide a Trendelenburg position, a venous cutdown was performed on the right saphenous vein, and additional fluids were begun in a vein in the left forearm while blood was ordered from the blood bank . All of these activities were completed by approximately 1245, at which time external cardiac massage was still being carried out effectively by Doctor Clark as judged by a palpable peripheral pulse. Despite these measures there was no electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity . These described resuscitative activities were indicated as of first importance, and after they were carried out attention was turned to all other evidences of injury . There was a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital), causing a great defect in the skull plate so that there was herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the extent that the cerebellum had protruded from the wound. There were also fragmented sections of brain on the drapes of the emergency room cart . With the institution of adequate cardiac compression, there was a great flow of blood from the cranial cavity, indicating that there was much vascular damage as well as brain tissue damage . It is my personal feeling that all methods of resuscitation were instituted expeditiously and efficiently . However, this cranial and intracranial damage was of such magnitude as to cause the irreversible damage . President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1300 . Sincerely, /s/ M. T. Jenkins M. T. Jenkins, M.D . ____________ Mr. Speer, the only way around these first day Admission Notes is to claim that all of these doctors, seasoned in a busy metropolitan hospital where they treated gunshot wounds on a daily basis, were all suffering from a mass hallucination. The idea that they were all mistaken in virtually the exact same way is patently absurd, and an insult to the intelligence of the Parkland Hospital trauma team, and to all of those you are trying to peddle your mythical rewrite of the best evidence. Nonsense. Pure nonsense. If you study human cognition you will find that people are often uniformly incorrect about certain things. They can 1) interpret things incorrectly, and 2) remember them incorrectly, and 3) be swayed by outside forces into changing their memories without their consciously doing so. As time passes, moreover, it only gets worse, and people's first impressions become lost, to the extent they no longer recall what they saw, but recall what they recalled they saw the last time they recalled it. Like a tape recording of a tape recording of a tape recording, the accuracy gets lost. But the emotional impact often gains focus. For this reason, a loud frightening sound will get louder over time, and a large angry man will get bigger and scarier over time. Now, all this goes to show how memories are unreliable. But more important in this instance is how images can be interpreted incorrectly, in a relatively uniform manner. Well, it has everything to do with how our brains organize information. Take, for example, South America. People have seen it on maps and globes since they were kids. It hasn't moved. And yet, when asked to draw the western hemisphere, people uniformly place South America directly beneath North America, when it is actually to the east of it. Or, take coins. It's not as common as it once was, but people used to handle coins every freaking day. And yet repeated studies found that when asked to draw a penny, the vast majority of Americans drew Lincoln's left profile, and not his right. This can be partially explained by the fact the penny is the only coin with a right profile. But still. Millions upon millions of people who've handled pennies tens of thousands of times in their lifetime...were unable to draw one. Now, why is that? Because we are piss-poor recording devices. It's not what we're built for. Our brains are wired to take shortcuts and simplify things, and our memories are sculpted to reinforce our emotional states, and not see things as they are. It's a constant struggle for those trying to get things right. But most don't even bother. Let's return to the back of the head witnesses. When asked to point out the location of the large head wound, the majority of the Parkland witnesses have pointed to a location at the top of the back of the head above the ear. Well, apparently, this triggered something in the research community, and people went hog-wild, and took from this that egads! the back of the head was blown and the Harper fragment really was occipital bone, and the doctors really did see cerebellum and so on. Only... they were looking at this stuff with their hearts and not their eyes. Well over a decade ago, I began pointing out that the witnesses presented in Groden's book did not support his thesis that the autopsy photos were faked to hide an occipital wound. At the time, this drew little support, aside from Tink Thompson. And since that time, roughly once or twice a year, someone joins the Ed Forum or publishes an article online to go after me, and call me a Warren Commission defender, whatever. They could not be more wrong. But they don't really care. It just feels so good to kick someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 31 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: My use of the phrase "mass hallucination" is merely an abbreviated way to say what you say in several sentences. And BTW, mass hallucinations don't happen. They are only thought to happen by people who fool themselves into thinking they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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