Sandy Larsen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 20 hours ago, Pat Speer said: You're incorrect. I was in an accelerated math program in high school. There were about 20 of us, in a graduating class of over 1,000. Well, I was the top student in every math class I ever took beginning in junior high school, with the exception of the year I was bullied mercilessly by several ninth graders. One year I was put in a janitor's closet with three other advanced students where we taught ourselves from a math book. I took calculus in high school and took numerous advanced math classes in college toward my masters degree in electrical engineering. I was taught topics like Fourier transforms, differential equations and solving them using Laplace transforms, sampling theory and Z transforms, probability and statistics, among many others. The toughest math class I ever took was a 500-level statistics class. I was the top student in every college math class I took. The probability calculation I did indeed accurately calculates the odds of twenty doctors getting the location wrong, when the choice is one of two possibilities... the top of the head or the back of the head. The only question is, was my assumption valid regarding the odds of a single doctor being wrong. I did the calculation for two different cases, one being where the doctor's accuracy was no better than a coin toss, and the other being that the doctor's accuracy was twice that. (That is to say, being wrong one out of four times, compared to the one-out-of-two-times that a coin toss would yield.) The assumption that favors your position, Pat, is that each doctor had only 50% chance of getting it right... i.e. a coin toss. Even in that case -- in your favor -- the odds that all twenty doctors got it wrong is worse than one in a million! Now, it could be that I am wrong about a couple things. Maybe the exact number of doctors and nurses who got it wrong isn't 20. maybe it's 19, or may 21. I counted them once and recall it's about twenty. I might also be wrong about my recollection that not a single doctor or nurse located the wound on the top of the head. There might be one of those... I doubt more than that. But even if I am wrong about both those numbers, the odds of so many doctors being wrong is extremely low. I'll prove my point. Let's suppose the there were 19 Parkland professionals who located the wound on the top or back of the head. And of those, only one got it right (the top of the head, according to you) and the others got it wrong (the back of the head, according to you). I will assume that the odds that each doctor got it wrong is the same as what a coin toss would yield. That way the outcome of the calculation will favor YOUR position. The calculation for this situation is considerably more involved than my prior calculations because of the fact that the doctors don't all agree. The probability can be calculated using the famous Binomial Distribution Formula (BDF): This Section For Math Geeks Only p^x gives the odds of something of probability p happening x times. q^(n-x) gives the odds of the opposite, of probability q=(1-p), happening x out of n total times. Multiplying those two odds gives the odds of both happening. However, so far we have the odds of something happening in x SPECIFIC EVENTS, of the total n events. We need to multiply this number with the result of the mathematical combinations formula, which is n! / ((n-x)! x!) because the "something happening" could have happened in ANY of the events. End Section for Math Geeks In our case, n = 19 x = 1 (1 success in locating the wound, 18 failures) p = 1/2 Using an online BDF calculator, I determined that the odds of 18 of 19 doctors getting it wrong are one in 27,594. So it is still highly unlikely. Not looking good for Pat Speer! Of course, a doctor is much more likely to correctly locate a blowout wound than is a random toss of a coin. Let's say that the doctors were each twice as accurate as a coin toss. (Which still is unfair to the doctors. I do this only to show Pat I am leaning over backward to be fair to him.) In this case I use a failure rate of q=1/4, which means a success rate of p=3/4. This time the calculator gives the odds of 18 failures to be one in 4,822,530,864. So, the odds of all but one of the 19 Parkland professionals being wrong is less than one in a 4 BILLION! And remember, this is based on the conservative assumption that the Parkland Professionals were only twice more likely to be right than a random coin toss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Cohen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Trying to apply probabilistic odds to this case is both futile and foolhardy. Coincidences happen. Unlikely things happen. In fact, they happen all the time as part of major historical events. Why is that so impossible to accept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said: So, the odds of all but one of the 19 Parkland professionals being wrong is less than one in a 4 BILLION! Pat, Please tell me how many Parkland doctors and nurses said EARLY ON that the wound was at the top of the head, and how many at the back of the head. From that I will calculate the precise odds of so many doctors getting it wrong (From your perspective.) Please name names so that your numbers can be fact checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 3 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said: Unlikely things happen. They happen PRECISELY as often as the laws of statistic say they will. Can a one-in-a-million event happen today. Sure! But it's highly unlikely to. Put your money where your mouth is. I'll bet my house against your $100 that a one-in-a-million event will not happen today. Just name the event and you've got my handshake. (I'll donate the $100 to the forum.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: The probability calculation I did indeed accurately calculates the odds of twenty doctors getting the location wrong, when the choice is one of two possibilities... the top of the head or the back of the head. But it's quite possible, Sandy, that none of the Parkland personnel actually saw the huge gaping opening in the right side of JFK's head....as I alluded to in my earlier post when I said this.... ------------------ "Due to Jackie's handiwork of "trying to hold his head on" during the ride to Parkland, most of the witnesses probably didn't get to see the full WIDE-OPEN extent of the large head wound at the right-front of JFK's head. They, instead, saw all the gore/blood/brains that was pooling at the RIGHT-REAR of JFK's head on the gurney. This led those witnesses to believe there was a large "wound" at the right-rear, when, in fact, no such "wound" was there at all (as proven by the autopsy pictures AND X-rays). That's not exactly a perfectly satisfying explanation---even for me. And I'm sure all conspiracy believers think such an explanation is totally laughable, preposterous, and idiotic. But it's the best I can do. (And it's Dr. Michael Baden's best explanation as well -- Click Here.)" ------------------- Sandy, What does it do to your "odds" probabilities if the gaping hole in JFK's head had, in fact, been almost completely masked (or closed up) due to Mrs. Kennedy's handling of the President's head in the limo? Edited January 12 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 11 hours ago, Pat Speer said: Do you believe the body was altered? Or the photos were faked? Or both? The back-of-head autopsy photo has been proven to be fake due to the fact that it is astronomically unlikely that so many witnesses would locate the blowout wound on the back of the head unless it were, in fact, on the back of the head. The nature of the head wound, with the scalp all cut up, has been proven to be altered due to the fact that it is astronomically unlikely that so many witnesses in Dallas could have missed seeing that mess. 11 hours ago, Pat Speer said: And, IF you believe the body was altered, why are you and your new buddies going after me, who has a very small audience, and not Aguilar, who just denounced Horne and the whole body-was-altered nonsense in an article on Jim D's website? If Aguilar and/or Horne were participating forum members, I would go after either one if I saw him cherry picking and misrepresenting facts in order to support their belief. Those are dishonest tactics, in my opinion. Actually, I would ask them to stop doing those things first, and then go after them if they didn't. 11 hours ago, Pat Speer said: If the body was altered to leave a false photographic record, then it makes no sense to believe the photos themselves were faked. Both body altering and photo fakery could have happened, and I think likely did happen. Body altering had to be done quickly and mistakes were likely. Mistakes could have been cleaned up later with photo fakery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, David Von Pein said: What does it do to your "odds" probabilities if the gaping hole in JFK's head had, in fact, been almost completely masked (or closed up) due to Mrs. Kennedy's handling of the President's head in the limo? David, for my calculation I assumed that Pat is right, that the wound was on the top of the head. Further, I assumed that one Parkland professional located it correctly and 18 professionals located it incorrectly, on the back of the head. Now if the wound on top of the head had healed up, then there would be no gaping hole to report. In that case, maybe the one guy who reported a wound on the top could see that it was a wound that healed up. In which case he reported correctly. As for the others who reported the wound to be on the back of the head, they would have mass hallucinated a hole being there. Since I don't believe in mass hallucinations, I'd have to say that the odds of this happening is zero. (One in infinity.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said: David, for my calculation I assumed that Pat is right, that the wound was on the top of the head. Further, I assumed that one Parkland professional located it correctly and 18 professionals located it incorrectly, on the back of the head. Now if the wound on top of the head had healed up, then there would be no gaping hole to report. In that case, maybe the one guy who reported a wound on the top could see that it was a wound that healed up. In which case he reported correctly. As for the others who reported the wound to be on the back of the head, they would have mass hallucinated a hole being there. Since I don't believe in mass hallucinations, I'd have to say that the odds of this happening is zero. (One in infinity.) I really really hope you realize how unscientific this all is, Sandy. Essentially,you have cooked the books. 1..You have failed to take into account the Dealey Plaza witnesses who by and large described the large wound in a manner consistent with the autopsy photos and x-rays. If you include them in your data field, your argument fails. 2. You have failed to take into account that the recollections of the Parkland witnesses were not independent recollections, as they spoke together after viewing the President's body, and read the accounts of others in medical journals, and were later shown drawings like the McClelland drawing, or even the Rydberg drawings, which showed the wound to be further back on the skull than in the photos. As it is impossible to separate the influence of these other factors, the whole premise behind your argument is flawed. 3. You failed to take into account other factors, such as the Parkland witnesses' viewing JFK while he was laying on his back. As reported, the rotation of an image affects our ability to properly assess the relative positions of elements within the image. Now, admittedly, the degree of this distortion is difficult to estimate without reproducing the exact circumstances. And this has never been done. What you have done, however, is select the statements of a specific group of witnesses, and then assume their statements ring true for all witnesses, even though you know this isn't true. This is flawed, at best. It would be like talking to those who saw a bright yellow moon on the horizon, and concluding it was a different moon than the smaller moon later spotted high up in a cloudy sky. Instead of insisting that the discrepancies in the appearance of something or someone proves there is more than one of this something or someone, or that one of the images has been falsified, you should pick up a book or two or ten on human cognition, and try to understand why people can and do make mistakes in a uniform manner. It's fascinating reading, IMO. I have a section on uniform mistakes, and optical illusions, in Chapter 18d. You should really take a look. Edited January 12 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 26 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: 1..You have failed to take into account the Dealey Plaza witnesses who by and large described the large wound in a manner consistent with the autopsy photos and x-rays. If you include them in your data field, your argument fails. I don't need to take every single witness into account. As long as I choose a group of witnesses and not cherry pick among that group, my mathematical calculations show precisely what I said they show... just as long as I use a conservative number for the probability that a single witness could get the wound location wrong. Basically, I took a sampling of the witnesses... a concept that is accounted for in statistics and practiced in real life. 26 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: 2. You have failed to take into account that the recollections of the Parkland witnesses were not independent recollections, as they spoke together after viewing the President's body, and read the accounts of others in medical journals, and were later shown drawings like the McClelland drawing, or even the Rydberg drawings, which showed the wound to be further back on the skull than in the photos. My methodology doesn't suffer the same weaknesses as yours Pat. I don't consider any late testimony at all. And if doctors were influenced by speaking together after they worked on Kennedy and before they reported on what they saw, what difference does that make? After all, for every back-of-the-head witness influencing others, there surely was a top-of-the-head witness doing the same. 26 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: 3. You failed to take into account other factors, such as the Parkland witnesses' viewing JFK while he was laying on his back. As reported, the rotation of an image affects our ability to properly assess the relative positions of elements within the image. Now, admittedly, the degree of this distortion is difficult to estimate without reproducing the exact circumstances. And this has never been done. If you want to believe that the odds of a doctor confusing the top of the head with the back of the head is nearly 100% -- simply because the patient is lying down -- well that's your prerogative. But that is a foolish thing to believe IMO. I mean, doctors see patients lying down all the time. And yet you think that nearly 100% of experienced doctors haven't figured out that lying down causes the back of a person's head to rest on the bed or table? Please! 26 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: What you have done, however, is select the statements of a specific group of witnesses, and then assume their statements ring true for all witnesses, even though you know this isn't true. Nope, I didn't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keven Hofeling Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 (edited) 12 hours ago, Michael Griffith said: "...How about the nurses who saw, and in one case handled, a large back-of-head wound?...." Yes, and Speer and his Lone Nutter confederates don't fair any better with the Parkland Nurses than they do with the Parkland Doctors... ___________________________ Parkland Nursing Staff OR / ER Parkland Hospital O-Chart: Audrey Bell Supervisor OR Doris Nelson Supervisor Jeanette Standridge Head Nurse ER Diana Bowron RN Margaret Henchcliff RN Pat Hutton RN ___________________________ NURSE AUDREY BELL NURSE AUDREY BELL'S OBSERVATIONS ABOUT JFK'S OCCIPITAL-PARIETAL WOUND PROVIDED TO THE ARRB ON 3/20/1997: ----------------------------------- ARRB MEETING REPORT ----------------------------------- DOCUMENT'S AUTHOR: Douglas Horne/ARRB DATE: 3/19/1997 ATTENDEES: Jeremy Gunn, Douglas Horne, and Audrey Bell TOPIC: ARRB Interviewed Audrey Bell SUMMARY OF THE MEETING: Nurse Audrey Bell was the Parkland Hospital Supervisor of Operating and Recovery Rooms in 1963; she viewed President Kennedy's wounds, and then participated in the surgery on Governor Connally. "...Summary of the Meeting On March 20, 1997 Jeremy Gunn and I interviewed Audrey Bell in her home in Vernon, Texas. We interviewed her because the Warren Commission never did, and the HSCA only asked her questions about Governor Connally's bullet fragments--business that was apparently not concluded--not about President Kennedy's wounds. The interview was audiotaped, and four drawings called Bell Exhibits 1 through 4 were completed by Audrey Bell. Recollections of President Kennedy's Wounds: -She did not see the throat wound herself: -Although only in Trauma Room One for 3-5 minutes, she did see the head wound. After asking Dr. Perry "where is the wound," she said he turned the President's head slightly to the President's anatomical left, so that she could see a right rear posterior head wound, which she described as occipital in both her oral remarks, and in her drawings; -She said she could see brain and spinal fluid coming out of the wound, but could not tell what type of brain tissue it was; -She said it was her recollection that the right side of the President's head, and the top of his head, were intact, which is why she had to ask Dr. Perry where the wound was in the first place...." MD 184 - ARRB Meeting Report Summarizing 3/20/97 In-Person Interview of Audrey Bell https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md184/html/md184_0001a.htm ___________________________ NURSE DORIS NELSON DORIS NELSON, RN: was a supervising nurse at Parkland. She was interviewed by Arlen Specter for the Warren Commission and she was neither asked or volunteered information regarding the nature of JFK's wounds. (WC-V6:143-147) As Groden and Livingstone reported, however, journalist Ben Bradlee, Jr. asked her, "Did you get a good look at his head injuries?" Nelson: "A very good look...When we wrapped him up and put him in the coffin. I saw his whole head." Asked about the accuracy of the HSCA autopsy photographs she reacted: "No. It's not true. Because there was no hair back there. There wasn't even hair back there. It was blown away. Some of his head was blown away and his brains were fallen down on the stretcher." (High Treason I. p. 454). Excerpted from 'JOHN F. KENNEDY'S FATAL WOUNDS: THE WITNESSES AND THE INTERPRETATIONS FROM 1963 TO THE PRESENT' by Dr. Gary Aguilar: http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm 'Nurse Doris Nelson's Reaction to JFK Autopsy Photo (3/2/1981)' JFK: Just the Facts | Oct 17, 2022 | Full, verbatim, taped conversation between Boston Globe reporters Ben Bradlee Jr., Nils Bruzelius, and Nurse Doris Nelson.In 1963, Nelson was the head Nurse, in charge of the Emergency Room, at Parkland Hospital. She supervised the general activities of the Nurses, and assisted the staff doctors, in caring for patients. She was also the oldest of medical personnel present that weekend, besides Dr. Marion Jenkins. On the day of the assassination, Nelson helped remove JFK and Governor Connally's clothes, and set up IVs for them. She stayed outside Trauma Room 1 with the Secret Service and Jackie Kennedy for most of the time. Later, she oversaw Diana Bowron and Margaret Hinchliffe prepare JFK's body for the coffin. And just like them, clearly saw a "large hole," with "missing skull and brains," in the "back of his head." In subsequent interviews with researchers Harrison Livingstone and David Lifton, Nelson repeated her opinion that JFK was shot "from the side," and that the autopsy photo of the back of his head was "not true." She passed away in 1983. Shortly after the assassination's 20th anniversary. Nelson's report: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1137#relPageId=660 Warren Commission testimony: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=35#relPageId=154 Nelson's interview with researcher David Hall: https://archive.org/details/nsia-NelsonDoris/nsia-NelsonDoris/Nelson Doris 01/page/n1/mode/2up Nelson's interview with Life Magazine: https://i.etsystatic.com/7413712/r/il/c81bfd/1105358479/il_1588xN.1105358479_9e7j.jpg Special thanks to: Maryrose Grossman (JFK Library Audio-Visual Reference Archivist). Property of: the Boston Globe and the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum (for educational and research purposes ONLY). ___________________________ NURSE DIANA BOWRON NURSE DIANA HAMILTON BOWRON: greeted the limousine with a stretcher. She claimed, "...the back of his head...well, it was very bad--you know..." Arlen Specter failed to elucidate what she meant by the "back of the head" being very bad. (emphasis added) (WC V6:136:) Within 48 hours of the assassination the British press relayed a second hand account from Bowron through her mother: "...there was blood all over this neck and shoulders. There was a gaping wound in the back of his head." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth , p. 180) Author Livingstone corresponded and spoke by phone with Bowron in 1993. He reported that Bowron claimed, "I first saw the large wound in the back of the head in the car. When we were preparing the body for the coffin I had the opportunity to examine it more closely. It was about five inches in diameter and there was no flap of skin covering it, just a fraction of skin along part of the edges of bone. There was, however, some hair hanging down from the top of the head, which was caked with blood, and most of the brain was missing. The wound was so large I could almost put my whole left fist inside." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 181) She also said, "...The hole was basically almost the size of a saucer, and sort of from the occiput. So there was quite a reasonable amount missing from the top as well." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 190) When asked her opinion of the nature of the defect in the rear of the skull, Bowron told Livingstone, "Well, to me it was an exit hole." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 192) Livingstone asked, "Did you see any entry hole in the back of the head?". "I assumed and I still do that that was an exit wound." Bowron answered. (Killing the Truth , p. 195). Bowron prepared a drawing depicting the skull wound as she saw it for Livingstone which bears a striking similarity to the diagram of the wound prepared by Robert McClelland, MD and agreed to by Paul Peters, MD (High Treason in group of images following p. 23 in hard cover edition.) It shows a defect squarely in the occiput on the right side; a second diagram depicting the skull from above shows the right rear quadrant of the skull absent with the notation "missing". (Killing the Truth,in images following p. 368). Excerpted from 'JOHN F. KENNEDY'S FATAL WOUNDS: THE WITNESSES AND THE INTERPRETATIONS FROM 1963 TO THE PRESENT' by Dr. Gary Aguilar http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm Nurse Bowron observed the head wound as the president's body lay in the limousine shortly after the car pulled up to the hospital, and later she cleaned the wound and then packed it with gauze squares. Here is what Nurse Bowron said about the large head wound: ------------------------------------------------------- "...Mr. SPECTER. And what, in a general way, did you observe with respect to President Kennedy's condition? Miss BOWRON. He was very pale, he was lying across Mrs. Kennedy's knee and there seemed to be blood everywhere. When I went around to the other side of the car I saw the condition of his head. Mr. SPECTER. You saw the condition of his what? Miss BOWRON. The back of his head. Mr. SPECTER. And what was that condition? Miss BOWRON. Well, it was very bad---you know. Mr. SPECTER. How many holes did you see? Miss BOWRON. I just saw one large hole. (6 H 136)..." WARREN COMMISSION TESTIMONY OF DIANA HAMILTON BOWRON https://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Bowron.pdf HARRISON LIVINGSTONE INTERVIEW OF PARKLAND NURSE DIANA BOWRON -- WHO CLEANED THE DRIED BLOOD OUT OF JFK'S HAIR AND PACKED THE BOH WOUND WITH GAUZE: https://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/QbgORExR/nurse-diana-bowron "...HL: Okay. If you can try to remember anybody taking pictures in there, photographs, it's very important because there's a reason to think that some of these autopsy pictures-I published a lot more of them in my last book-that they're not taken at Bethesda, you know. Now, do you think that any part of his face-like the right eye and the right forehead above it - did that sag in or was there any bone missing in that area? Did his face look so perfectly normal? Did you feel his face? HL: You washed his face? DB: I can't remember whether I washed it or Margaret washed it. I know I washed his hair. HL: Well, you would have noticed if a large piece of bone -- see, the X-rays, if you look at the X-rays in my book, they show the whole right front of the face is gone from the eye area. And the lateral view X-ray is not the same as the AP view. There's a lot more bone missing in the lateral view. But most of the-most of them have the whole right eye area, from the top of the orbit, at least, plus the forehead and the temporal bone is gone. DB: No, no. I mean, I would have noticed something like that. You know, to say his face looked like a dead body's face. You know, there was no injury to the face. HL: Yeah. DB: It was just to his-the back of his head. And the one in his, in his throat. But and by then it was the tracheostomy opening. But his face itself, no. HL: Okay. One more question about that. Do you remember any laceration across the scalp from front to back where it comes on to the forehead, where the scalp would have been lacerated and it goes straight back from that area? Picture the right eyebrow. A laceration about a half an inch into his forehead, and then going straight back, where the scalp was torn. Do you remember anything like that? DB: No. HL: You would have because you washed the hair, right? DB: Yes. When I say washed it, I just took cotton swabs and washed all the clotting blood off. I mean, I didn't shampoo it or anything. HL: So, in this massive hole, was there a flap of scalp there, or was scalp actually gone? DB: It was gone. Gone. There was nothing there. Just a big, gaping hole. HL: We're talking about scalp first, and then bone, right? DB: Yeah. There might have been little lumps of scalp, but most of the bone over the hole, there was no bone there. HL: Was there any part of a flap of scalp over that big defect in the bone missing? DB: What I'm saying is that the hole where the bone had gone, perhaps the skin was a little bit smaller, if you know what I mean, but only fractionally, just over the edge. HL: So the scalp was blown out, too? DB: Yes. HL: I don't know if I should ask you this question-but did you have enough experience either before or after to think that that was either an exit or an entry hole? DB: Well, to me it was an exit hole. HL: Yeah. DB: I mean, I've never seen one as big as that, but-..." https://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/QbgORExR/nurse-diana-bowron ___________________________ NURSE MARGARET HENCHCLIFFE Nurse Margaret Henchcliffe told the Commission that the hole "was as big around as my little finger" and that it was "an entrance bullet hole". When pressed by Specter if the hole could have been an exit wound, she said that she could not remember ever seeing an exit bullet hole "that looked like that". ( 6 H 141 ) ___________________________ NURSE PAT HUTTON PAT HUTTON, RN: a nurse at Parkland who met the limousine and helped to wheel the President into Trauma Room 1 wrote a report soon after claiming, "Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound in the back of his head, and was lying there unresponsive." (Price Exhibit V21 H 216--Emphasis added). While helping with resuscitation efforts a physician asked her to apply a pressure dressing to the head wound, she observed, however, that, "This was no use, however, because of the massive opening in the back of the head." (IBID). Excerpted from 'JOHN F. KENNEDY'S FATAL WOUNDS: THE WITNESSES AND THE INTERPRETATIONS FROM 1963 TO THE PRESENT' by Dr. Gary Aguilar: http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm 'NURSE PATRICIA GUSTAFSON [HUTTON]'S REACTION TO JFK AUTOPSY PHOTO (3/4/1981)' JFK: Just the Facts | Sep 29, 2022 | 'JFK FACTS -- ER NURSE PATRICIA HUTTON -- EXIT WOUND IN THE REAR' PrisonEarth | Nov 29, 2010 | https://youtu.be/8cTh5waZ_w0 "ER Nurse Patricia Hutton was on duty at Parkland Hospital on Nov 22, 1963 when President Kennedy was brought in with multiple gunshot wounds. She assisted Doctors while they worked to save the President's life. In her official statement she says JFK had a "massive opening in the rear of his head". Several Doctors also stated that JFK had a "Huge EXIT wound in the rear of his head. Because her statement contradicted the official gov version her statement was Classified as TOP SECRET. ___________________________ NURSE PHYLLIS HALL PARKLAND NURSE PHYLLIS J. HALL DESCRIBING PRESIDENT KENNEDY'S BACK-OF-THE-HEAD-WOUND: "...From the front, it didn't look bad at all, the damage was back here ..." (Ms. Hall places her hand on the right side occipital-parietal region of the back of her head to demonstrate the location if the wound). 1:12 of the video "JFK shooting witness: nurse recalls day President Kennedy was shot in Dallas". Following link is already cued for you to 1:12: "...As surgeons feverishly worked on the President’s lifeless body, Phyllis made a startling discovery. She reveals: “Mr Kennedy had such a thick head of hair, and few people noticed the gaping wound to his skull. The bullet had ripped it clean away. “His brain was severely damaged and the blood loss was huge. “But, as we continued to work, I held his head. “I could see a bullet lodged between his ear and his shoulder. It was pointed at its tip and showed no signs of damage. I remember looking at it – there was no blunting of the bullet or scarring around the shell from where it had been fired. “I’d had a great deal of experience working with gunshot wounds but I had never seen anything like this before. “It was about one-and-a-half inches long – nothing like the bullets that were later produced. “It was taken away but never have I seen it presented in evidence or heard what happened to it. It remains a mystery.”..." ______________ 'EXCLUSIVE: JFK, the accidental trauma nurse and the disappearance of a 'mystery bullet'' "Dallas nurse Phyllis Hall held President John F Kennedy's shattered head as staff tried to resuscitate him and also treated 'attention seeker' Jack Ruby" By Christopher Bucktin, United States Editor | MIRROR | , 10 Nov 2013 | https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/nurse-phyllis-hall-tells-efforts-2713685 ___________________________ NURSE SHARON TUOHY JFK BACK-OF-HEAD WOUND DESCRIPTION BY PARKLAND NURSE SHARON TUOHY "...The back of his head, above the base of his skull, contained a large cavity which appeared to be an ugly wound. A lot of tissue showing, a lot of blood in the area on the head. The wound appeared big enough for both fists to go into. Both doubled up fists could fit into the area..." '1977 HSCA INTERVIEW WITH PARKLAND NURSE SHARON TUOHY -- COMPLETE' Description of back-of-the-head wound starts at 03:12 of the video to which I have cued the video for you in advance as follows: Denis Morissette | Feb 4, 2020 | https://youtu.be/OcArjV84TkI?si=YnMKl6NhZPi5e1HI ___________________________ NURSE MARGARET HOOD Margaret Hood "sketched a gaping hole in the occipital region which extended only slightly into the parietal area." Edited January 12 by Keven Hofeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 20 minutes ago, Keven Hofeling said: Yes, and Speer and his Lone Nutter confederates don't fair any better with the Parkland Nurses than they do with the Parkland Doctors... ___________________________ Parkland Nursing Staff OR / ER Parkland Hospital O-Chart: Audrey Bell Supervisor OR Doris Nelson Supervisor Jeanette Standridge Head Nurse ER Diana Bowron RN Margaret Henchcliff RN Pat Hutton RN ___________________________ NURSE AUDREY BELL NURSE AUDREY BELL'S OBSERVATIONS ABOUT JFK'S OCCIPITAL-PARIETAL WOUND PROVIDED TO THE ARRB ON 3/20/1997: ----------------------------------- ARRB MEETING REPORT ----------------------------------- DOCUMENT'S AUTHOR: Douglas Horne/ARRB DATE: 3/19/1997 ATTENDEES: Jeremy Gunn, Douglas Horne, and Audrey Bell TOPIC: ARRB Interviewed Audrey Bell SUMMARY OF THE MEETING: Nurse Audrey Bell was the Parkland Hospital Supervisor of Operating and Recovery Rooms in 1963; she viewed President Kennedy's wounds, and then participated in the surgery on Governor Connally. "...Summary of the Meeting On March 20, 1997 Jeremy Gunn and I interviewed Audrey Bell in her home in Vernon, Texas. We interviewed her because the Warren Commission never did, and the HSCA only asked her questions about Governor Connally's bullet fragments--business that was apparently not concluded--not about President Kennedy's wounds. The interview was audiotaped, and four drawings called Bell Exhibits 1 through 4 were completed by Audrey Bell. Recollections of President Kennedy's Wounds: -She did not see the throat wound herself: -Although only in Trauma Room One for 3-5 minutes, she did see the head wound. After asking Dr. Perry "where is the wound," she said he turned the President's head slightly to the President's anatomical left, so that she could see a right rear posterior head wound, which she described as occipital in both her oral remarks, and in her drawings; -She said she could see brain and spinal fluid coming out of the wound, but could not tell what type of brain tissue it was; -She said it was her recollection that the right side of the President's head, and the top of his head, were intact, which is why she had to ask Dr. Perry where the wound was in the first place...." MD 184 - ARRB Meeting Report Summarizing 3/20/97 In-Person Interview of Audrey Bell https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md184/html/md184_0001a.htm ___________________________ NURSE DORIS NELSON DORIS NELSON, RN: was a supervising nurse at Parkland. She was interviewed by Arlen Specter for the Warren Commission and she was neither asked or volunteered information regarding the nature of JFK's wounds. (WC-V6:143-147) As Groden and Livingstone reported, however, journalist Ben Bradlee, Jr. asked her, "Did you get a good look at his head injuries?" Nelson: "A very good look...When we wrapped him up and put him in the coffin. I saw his whole head." Asked about the accuracy of the HSCA autopsy photographs she reacted: "No. It's not true. Because there was no hair back there. There wasn't even hair back there. It was blown away. Some of his head was blown away and his brains were fallen down on the stretcher." (High Treason I. p. 454). Excerpted from 'JOHN F. KENNEDY'S FATAL WOUNDS: THE WITNESSES AND THE INTERPRETATIONS FROM 1963 TO THE PRESENT' by Dr. Gary Aguilar: http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm 'Nurse Doris Nelson's Reaction to JFK Autopsy Photo (3/2/1981)' JFK: Just the Facts | Oct 17, 2022 | Full, verbatim, taped conversation between Boston Globe reporters Ben Bradlee Jr., Nils Bruzelius, and Nurse Doris Nelson.In 1963, Nelson was the head Nurse, in charge of the Emergency Room, at Parkland Hospital. She supervised the general activities of the Nurses, and assisted the staff doctors, in caring for patients. She was also the oldest of medical personnel present that weekend, besides Dr. Marion Jenkins. On the day of the assassination, Nelson helped remove JFK and Governor Connally's clothes, and set up IVs for them. She stayed outside Trauma Room 1 with the Secret Service and Jackie Kennedy for most of the time. Later, she oversaw Diana Bowron and Margaret Hinchliffe prepare JFK's body for the coffin. And just like them, clearly saw a "large hole," with "missing skull and brains," in the "back of his head." In subsequent interviews with researchers Harrison Livingstone and David Lifton, Nelson repeated her opinion that JFK was shot "from the side," and that the autopsy photo of the back of his head was "not true." She passed away in 1983. Shortly after the assassination's 20th anniversary. Nelson's report: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1137#relPageId=660 Warren Commission testimony: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=35#relPageId=154 Nelson's interview with researcher David Hall: https://archive.org/details/nsia-NelsonDoris/nsia-NelsonDoris/Nelson Doris 01/page/n1/mode/2up Nelson's interview with Life Magazine: https://i.etsystatic.com/7413712/r/il/c81bfd/1105358479/il_1588xN.1105358479_9e7j.jpg Special thanks to: Maryrose Grossman (JFK Library Audio-Visual Reference Archivist). Property of: the Boston Globe and the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum (for educational and research purposes ONLY). ___________________________ NURSE DIANA BOWRON NURSE DIANA HAMILTON BOWRON: greeted the limousine with a stretcher. She claimed, "...the back of his head...well, it was very bad--you know..." Arlen Specter failed to elucidate what she meant by the "back of the head" being very bad. (emphasis added) (WC V6:136:) Within 48 hours of the assassination the British press relayed a second hand account from Bowron through her mother: "...there was blood all over this neck and shoulders. There was a gaping wound in the back of his head." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth , p. 180) Author Livingstone corresponded and spoke by phone with Bowron in 1993. He reported that Bowron claimed, "I first saw the large wound in the back of the head in the car. When we were preparing the body for the coffin I had the opportunity to examine it more closely. It was about five inches in diameter and there was no flap of skin covering it, just a fraction of skin along part of the edges of bone. There was, however, some hair hanging down from the top of the head, which was caked with blood, and most of the brain was missing. The wound was so large I could almost put my whole left fist inside." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 181) She also said, "...The hole was basically almost the size of a saucer, and sort of from the occiput. So there was quite a reasonable amount missing from the top as well." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 190) When asked her opinion of the nature of the defect in the rear of the skull, Bowron told Livingstone, "Well, to me it was an exit hole." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 192) Livingstone asked, "Did you see any entry hole in the back of the head?". "I assumed and I still do that that was an exit wound." Bowron answered. (Killing the Truth , p. 195). Bowron prepared a drawing depicting the skull wound as she saw it for Livingstone which bears a striking similarity to the diagram of the wound prepared by Robert McClelland, MD and agreed to by Paul Peters, MD (High Treason in group of images following p. 23 in hard cover edition.) It shows a defect squarely in the occiput on the right side; a second diagram depicting the skull from above shows the right rear quadrant of the skull absent with the notation "missing". (Killing the Truth,in images following p. 368). Excerpted from 'JOHN F. KENNEDY'S FATAL WOUNDS: THE WITNESSES AND THE INTERPRETATIONS FROM 1963 TO THE PRESENT' by Dr. Gary Aguilar http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm Nurse Bowron observed the head wound as the president's body lay in the limousine shortly after the car pulled up to the hospital, and later she cleaned the wound and then packed it with gauze squares. Here is what Nurse Bowron said about the large head wound: ------------------------------------------------------- "...Mr. SPECTER. And what, in a general way, did you observe with respect to President Kennedy's condition? Miss BOWRON. He was very pale, he was lying across Mrs. Kennedy's knee and there seemed to be blood everywhere. When I went around to the other side of the car I saw the condition of his head. Mr. SPECTER. You saw the condition of his what? Miss BOWRON. The back of his head. Mr. SPECTER. And what was that condition? Miss BOWRON. Well, it was very bad---you know. Mr. SPECTER. How many holes did you see? Miss BOWRON. I just saw one large hole. (6 H 136)..." WARREN COMMISSION TESTIMONY OF DIANA HAMILTON BOWRON https://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Bowron.pdf HARRISON LIVINGSTONE INTERVIEW OF PARKLAND NURSE DIANA BOWRON -- WHO CLEANED THE DRIED BLOOD OUT OF JFK'S HAIR AND PACKED THE BOH WOUND WITH GAUZE: https://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/QbgORExR/nurse-diana-bowron "...HL: Okay. If you can try to remember anybody taking pictures in there, photographs, it's very important because there's a reason to think that some of these autopsy pictures-I published a lot more of them in my last book-that they're not taken at Bethesda, you know. Now, do you think that any part of his face-like the right eye and the right forehead above it - did that sag in or was there any bone missing in that area? Did his face look so perfectly normal? Did you feel his face? HL: You washed his face? DB: I can't remember whether I washed it or Margaret washed it. I know I washed his hair. HL: Well, you would have noticed if a large piece of bone -- see, the X-rays, if you look at the X-rays in my book, they show the whole right front of the face is gone from the eye area. And the lateral view X-ray is not the same as the AP view. There's a lot more bone missing in the lateral view. But most of the-most of them have the whole right eye area, from the top of the orbit, at least, plus the forehead and the temporal bone is gone. DB: No, no. I mean, I would have noticed something like that. You know, to say his face looked like a dead body's face. You know, there was no injury to the face. HL: Yeah. DB: It was just to his-the back of his head. And the one in his, in his throat. But and by then it was the tracheostomy opening. But his face itself, no. HL: Okay. One more question about that. Do you remember any laceration across the scalp from front to back where it comes on to the forehead, where the scalp would have been lacerated and it goes straight back from that area? Picture the right eyebrow. A laceration about a half an inch into his forehead, and then going straight back, where the scalp was torn. Do you remember anything like that? DB: No. HL: You would have because you washed the hair, right? DB: Yes. When I say washed it, I just took cotton swabs and washed all the clotting blood off. I mean, I didn't shampoo it or anything. HL: So, in this massive hole, was there a flap of scalp there, or was scalp actually gone? DB: It was gone. Gone. There was nothing there. Just a big, gaping hole. HL: We're talking about scalp first, and then bone, right? DB: Yeah. There might have been little lumps of scalp, but most of the bone over the hole, there was no bone there. HL: Was there any part of a flap of scalp over that big defect in the bone missing? DB: What I'm saying is that the hole where the bone had gone, perhaps the skin was a little bit smaller, if you know what I mean, but only fractionally, just over the edge. HL: So the scalp was blown out, too? DB: Yes. HL: I don't know if I should ask you this question-but did you have enough experience either before or after to think that that was either an exit or an entry hole? DB: Well, to me it was an exit hole. HL: Yeah. DB: I mean, I've never seen one as big as that, but-..." https://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/QbgORExR/nurse-diana-bowron ___________________________ NURSE MARGARET HENCHCLIFFE Nurse Margaret Henchcliffe told the Commission that the hole "was as big around as my little finger" and that it was "an entrance bullet hole". When pressed by Specter if the hole could have been an exit wound, she said that she could not remember ever seeing an exit bullet hole "that looked like that". ( 6 H 141 ) ___________________________ NURSE PAT HUTTON PAT HUTTON, RN: a nurse at Parkland who met the limousine and helped to wheel the President into Trauma Room 1 wrote a report soon after claiming, "Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound in the back of his head, and was lying there unresponsive." (Price Exhibit V21 H 216--Emphasis added). While helping with resuscitation efforts a physician asked her to apply a pressure dressing to the head wound, she observed, however, that, "This was no use, however, because of the massive opening in the back of the head." (IBID). Excerpted from 'JOHN F. KENNEDY'S FATAL WOUNDS: THE WITNESSES AND THE INTERPRETATIONS FROM 1963 TO THE PRESENT' by Dr. Gary Aguilar: http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm 'NURSE PATRICIA GUSTAFSON [HUTTON]'S REACTION TO JFK AUTOPSY PHOTO (3/4/1981)' JFK: Just the Facts | Sep 29, 2022 | 'JFK FACTS -- ER NURSE PATRICIA HUTTON -- EXIT WOUND IN THE REAR' PrisonEarth | Nov 29, 2010 | https://youtu.be/8cTh5waZ_w0 "ER Nurse Patricia Hutton was on duty at Parkland Hospital on Nov 22, 1963 when President Kennedy was brought in with multiple gunshot wounds. She assisted Doctors while they worked to save the President's life. In her official statement she says JFK had a "massive opening in the rear of his head". Several Doctors also stated that JFK had a "Huge EXIT wound in the rear of his head. Because her statement contradicted the official gov version her statement was Classified as TOP SECRET. ___________________________ NURSE PHYLLIS HALL PARKLAND NURSE PHYLLIS J. HALL DESCRIBING PRESIDENT KENNEDY'S BACK-OF-THE-HEAD-WOUND: "...From the front, it didn't look bad at all, the damage was back here ..." (Ms. Hall places her hand on the right side occipital-parietal region of the back of her head to demonstrate the location if the wound). 1:12 of the video "JFK shooting witness: nurse recalls day President Kennedy was shot in Dallas". Following link is already cued for you to 1:12: "...As surgeons feverishly worked on the President’s lifeless body, Phyllis made a startling discovery. She reveals: “Mr Kennedy had such a thick head of hair, and few people noticed the gaping wound to his skull. The bullet had ripped it clean away. “His brain was severely damaged and the blood loss was huge. “But, as we continued to work, I held his head. “I could see a bullet lodged between his ear and his shoulder. It was pointed at its tip and showed no signs of damage. I remember looking at it – there was no blunting of the bullet or scarring around the shell from where it had been fired. “I’d had a great deal of experience working with gunshot wounds but I had never seen anything like this before. “It was about one-and-a-half inches long – nothing like the bullets that were later produced. “It was taken away but never have I seen it presented in evidence or heard what happened to it. It remains a mystery.”..." ______________ 'EXCLUSIVE: JFK, the accidental trauma nurse and the disappearance of a 'mystery bullet'' "Dallas nurse Phyllis Hall held President John F Kennedy's shattered head as staff tried to resuscitate him and also treated 'attention seeker' Jack Ruby" By Christopher Bucktin, United States Editor | MIRROR | , 10 Nov 2013 | https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/nurse-phyllis-hall-tells-efforts-2713685 ___________________________ NURSE SHARON TUOHY JFK BACK-OF-HEAD WOUND DESCRIPTION BY PARKLAND NURSE SHARON TUOHY "...The back of his head, above the base of his skull, contained a large cavity which appeared to be an ugly wound. A lot of tissue showing, a lot of blood in the area on the head. The wound appeared big enough for both fists to go into. Both doubled up fists could fit into the area..." '1977 HSCA INTERVIEW WITH PARKLAND NURSE SHARON TUOHY -- COMPLETE' Description of back-of-the-head wound starts at 03:12 of the video to which I have cued the video for you in advance as follows: Denis Morissette | Feb 4, 2020 | https://youtu.be/OcArjV84TkI?si=YnMKl6NhZPi5e1HI ___________________________ NURSE MARGARET HOOD Margaret Hood "sketched a gaping hole in the occipital region which extended only slightly into the parietal area." That's a nice, well organized list you've got there Keven. Though the "Parkland Nursing Staff OR / ER" list at the beginning seems to be missing some names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Cohen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: They happen PRECISELY as often as the laws of statistic say they will. Can a one-in-a-million event happen today. Sure! But it's highly unlikely to. Put your money where your mouth is. I'll bet my house against your $100 that a one-in-a-million event will not happen today. Just name the event and you've got my handshake. (I'll donate the $100 to the forum.) So what you're actually saying is, you, Sandy Larsen, can predict unpredictability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Keven Hofeling said: Yes, and Speer and his Lone Nutter confederates don't fair any better with the Parkland Nurses than they do with the Parkland Doctors... ___________________________ Parkland Nursing Staff OR / ER Parkland Hospital O-Chart: Audrey Bell Supervisor OR Doris Nelson Supervisor Jeanette Standridge Head Nurse ER Diana Bowron RN Margaret Henchcliff RN Pat Hutton RN ___________________________ NURSE AUDREY BELL NURSE AUDREY BELL'S OBSERVATIONS ABOUT JFK'S OCCIPITAL-PARIETAL WOUND PROVIDED TO THE ARRB ON 3/20/1997: ----------------------------------- ARRB MEETING REPORT ----------------------------------- DOCUMENT'S AUTHOR: Douglas Horne/ARRB DATE: 3/19/1997 ATTENDEES: Jeremy Gunn, Douglas Horne, and Audrey Bell TOPIC: ARRB Interviewed Audrey Bell SUMMARY OF THE MEETING: Nurse Audrey Bell was the Parkland Hospital Supervisor of Operating and Recovery Rooms in 1963; she viewed President Kennedy's wounds, and then participated in the surgery on Governor Connally. "...Summary of the Meeting On March 20, 1997 Jeremy Gunn and I interviewed Audrey Bell in her home in Vernon, Texas. We interviewed her because the Warren Commission never did, and the HSCA only asked her questions about Governor Connally's bullet fragments--business that was apparently not concluded--not about President Kennedy's wounds. The interview was audiotaped, and four drawings called Bell Exhibits 1 through 4 were completed by Audrey Bell. Recollections of President Kennedy's Wounds: -She did not see the throat wound herself: -Although only in Trauma Room One for 3-5 minutes, she did see the head wound. After asking Dr. Perry "where is the wound," she said he turned the President's head slightly to the President's anatomical left, so that she could see a right rear posterior head wound, which she described as occipital in both her oral remarks, and in her drawings; -She said she could see brain and spinal fluid coming out of the wound, but could not tell what type of brain tissue it was; -She said it was her recollection that the right side of the President's head, and the top of his head, were intact, which is why she had to ask Dr. Perry where the wound was in the first place...." MD 184 - ARRB Meeting Report Summarizing 3/20/97 In-Person Interview of Audrey Bell https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md184/html/md184_0001a.htm ___________________________ NURSE DORIS NELSON DORIS NELSON, RN: was a supervising nurse at Parkland. She was interviewed by Arlen Specter for the Warren Commission and she was neither asked or volunteered information regarding the nature of JFK's wounds. (WC-V6:143-147) As Groden and Livingstone reported, however, journalist Ben Bradlee, Jr. asked her, "Did you get a good look at his head injuries?" Nelson: "A very good look...When we wrapped him up and put him in the coffin. I saw his whole head." Asked about the accuracy of the HSCA autopsy photographs she reacted: "No. It's not true. Because there was no hair back there. There wasn't even hair back there. It was blown away. Some of his head was blown away and his brains were fallen down on the stretcher." (High Treason I. p. 454). Excerpted from 'JOHN F. KENNEDY'S FATAL WOUNDS: THE WITNESSES AND THE INTERPRETATIONS FROM 1963 TO THE PRESENT' by Dr. Gary Aguilar: http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm 'Nurse Doris Nelson's Reaction to JFK Autopsy Photo (3/2/1981)' JFK: Just the Facts | Oct 17, 2022 | Full, verbatim, taped conversation between Boston Globe reporters Ben Bradlee Jr., Nils Bruzelius, and Nurse Doris Nelson.In 1963, Nelson was the head Nurse, in charge of the Emergency Room, at Parkland Hospital. She supervised the general activities of the Nurses, and assisted the staff doctors, in caring for patients. She was also the oldest of medical personnel present that weekend, besides Dr. Marion Jenkins. On the day of the assassination, Nelson helped remove JFK and Governor Connally's clothes, and set up IVs for them. She stayed outside Trauma Room 1 with the Secret Service and Jackie Kennedy for most of the time. Later, she oversaw Diana Bowron and Margaret Hinchliffe prepare JFK's body for the coffin. And just like them, clearly saw a "large hole," with "missing skull and brains," in the "back of his head." In subsequent interviews with researchers Harrison Livingstone and David Lifton, Nelson repeated her opinion that JFK was shot "from the side," and that the autopsy photo of the back of his head was "not true." She passed away in 1983. Shortly after the assassination's 20th anniversary. Nelson's report: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1137#relPageId=660 Warren Commission testimony: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=35#relPageId=154 Nelson's interview with researcher David Hall: https://archive.org/details/nsia-NelsonDoris/nsia-NelsonDoris/Nelson Doris 01/page/n1/mode/2up Nelson's interview with Life Magazine: https://i.etsystatic.com/7413712/r/il/c81bfd/1105358479/il_1588xN.1105358479_9e7j.jpg Special thanks to: Maryrose Grossman (JFK Library Audio-Visual Reference Archivist). Property of: the Boston Globe and the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum (for educational and research purposes ONLY). ___________________________ NURSE DIANA BOWRON NURSE DIANA HAMILTON BOWRON: greeted the limousine with a stretcher. She claimed, "...the back of his head...well, it was very bad--you know..." Arlen Specter failed to elucidate what she meant by the "back of the head" being very bad. (emphasis added) (WC V6:136:) Within 48 hours of the assassination the British press relayed a second hand account from Bowron through her mother: "...there was blood all over this neck and shoulders. There was a gaping wound in the back of his head." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth , p. 180) Author Livingstone corresponded and spoke by phone with Bowron in 1993. He reported that Bowron claimed, "I first saw the large wound in the back of the head in the car. When we were preparing the body for the coffin I had the opportunity to examine it more closely. It was about five inches in diameter and there was no flap of skin covering it, just a fraction of skin along part of the edges of bone. There was, however, some hair hanging down from the top of the head, which was caked with blood, and most of the brain was missing. The wound was so large I could almost put my whole left fist inside." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 181) She also said, "...The hole was basically almost the size of a saucer, and sort of from the occiput. So there was quite a reasonable amount missing from the top as well." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 190) When asked her opinion of the nature of the defect in the rear of the skull, Bowron told Livingstone, "Well, to me it was an exit hole." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 192) Livingstone asked, "Did you see any entry hole in the back of the head?". "I assumed and I still do that that was an exit wound." Bowron answered. (Killing the Truth , p. 195). Bowron prepared a drawing depicting the skull wound as she saw it for Livingstone which bears a striking similarity to the diagram of the wound prepared by Robert McClelland, MD and agreed to by Paul Peters, MD (High Treason in group of images following p. 23 in hard cover edition.) It shows a defect squarely in the occiput on the right side; a second diagram depicting the skull from above shows the right rear quadrant of the skull absent with the notation "missing". (Killing the Truth,in images following p. 368). Excerpted from 'JOHN F. KENNEDY'S FATAL WOUNDS: THE WITNESSES AND THE INTERPRETATIONS FROM 1963 TO THE PRESENT' by Dr. Gary Aguilar http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm Nurse Bowron observed the head wound as the president's body lay in the limousine shortly after the car pulled up to the hospital, and later she cleaned the wound and then packed it with gauze squares. Here is what Nurse Bowron said about the large head wound: ------------------------------------------------------- "...Mr. SPECTER. And what, in a general way, did you observe with respect to President Kennedy's condition? Miss BOWRON. He was very pale, he was lying across Mrs. Kennedy's knee and there seemed to be blood everywhere. When I went around to the other side of the car I saw the condition of his head. Mr. SPECTER. You saw the condition of his what? Miss BOWRON. The back of his head. Mr. SPECTER. And what was that condition? Miss BOWRON. Well, it was very bad---you know. Mr. SPECTER. How many holes did you see? Miss BOWRON. I just saw one large hole. (6 H 136)..." WARREN COMMISSION TESTIMONY OF DIANA HAMILTON BOWRON https://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Bowron.pdf HARRISON LIVINGSTONE INTERVIEW OF PARKLAND NURSE DIANA BOWRON -- WHO CLEANED THE DRIED BLOOD OUT OF JFK'S HAIR AND PACKED THE BOH WOUND WITH GAUZE: https://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/QbgORExR/nurse-diana-bowron "...HL: Okay. If you can try to remember anybody taking pictures in there, photographs, it's very important because there's a reason to think that some of these autopsy pictures-I published a lot more of them in my last book-that they're not taken at Bethesda, you know. Now, do you think that any part of his face-like the right eye and the right forehead above it - did that sag in or was there any bone missing in that area? Did his face look so perfectly normal? Did you feel his face? HL: You washed his face? DB: I can't remember whether I washed it or Margaret washed it. I know I washed his hair. HL: Well, you would have noticed if a large piece of bone -- see, the X-rays, if you look at the X-rays in my book, they show the whole right front of the face is gone from the eye area. And the lateral view X-ray is not the same as the AP view. There's a lot more bone missing in the lateral view. But most of the-most of them have the whole right eye area, from the top of the orbit, at least, plus the forehead and the temporal bone is gone. DB: No, no. I mean, I would have noticed something like that. You know, to say his face looked like a dead body's face. You know, there was no injury to the face. HL: Yeah. DB: It was just to his-the back of his head. And the one in his, in his throat. But and by then it was the tracheostomy opening. But his face itself, no. HL: Okay. One more question about that. Do you remember any laceration across the scalp from front to back where it comes on to the forehead, where the scalp would have been lacerated and it goes straight back from that area? Picture the right eyebrow. A laceration about a half an inch into his forehead, and then going straight back, where the scalp was torn. Do you remember anything like that? DB: No. HL: You would have because you washed the hair, right? DB: Yes. When I say washed it, I just took cotton swabs and washed all the clotting blood off. I mean, I didn't shampoo it or anything. HL: So, in this massive hole, was there a flap of scalp there, or was scalp actually gone? DB: It was gone. Gone. There was nothing there. Just a big, gaping hole. HL: We're talking about scalp first, and then bone, right? DB: Yeah. There might have been little lumps of scalp, but most of the bone over the hole, there was no bone there. HL: Was there any part of a flap of scalp over that big defect in the bone missing? DB: What I'm saying is that the hole where the bone had gone, perhaps the skin was a little bit smaller, if you know what I mean, but only fractionally, just over the edge. HL: So the scalp was blown out, too? DB: Yes. HL: I don't know if I should ask you this question-but did you have enough experience either before or after to think that that was either an exit or an entry hole? DB: Well, to me it was an exit hole. HL: Yeah. DB: I mean, I've never seen one as big as that, but-..." https://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/QbgORExR/nurse-diana-bowron ___________________________ NURSE MARGARET HENCHCLIFFE Nurse Margaret Henchcliffe told the Commission that the hole "was as big around as my little finger" and that it was "an entrance bullet hole". When pressed by Specter if the hole could have been an exit wound, she said that she could not remember ever seeing an exit bullet hole "that looked like that". ( 6 H 141 ) ___________________________ NURSE PAT HUTTON PAT HUTTON, RN: a nurse at Parkland who met the limousine and helped to wheel the President into Trauma Room 1 wrote a report soon after claiming, "Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound in the back of his head, and was lying there unresponsive." (Price Exhibit V21 H 216--Emphasis added). While helping with resuscitation efforts a physician asked her to apply a pressure dressing to the head wound, she observed, however, that, "This was no use, however, because of the massive opening in the back of the head." (IBID). Excerpted from 'JOHN F. KENNEDY'S FATAL WOUNDS: THE WITNESSES AND THE INTERPRETATIONS FROM 1963 TO THE PRESENT' by Dr. Gary Aguilar: http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm 'NURSE PATRICIA GUSTAFSON [HUTTON]'S REACTION TO JFK AUTOPSY PHOTO (3/4/1981)' JFK: Just the Facts | Sep 29, 2022 | 'JFK FACTS -- ER NURSE PATRICIA HUTTON -- EXIT WOUND IN THE REAR' PrisonEarth | Nov 29, 2010 | https://youtu.be/8cTh5waZ_w0 "ER Nurse Patricia Hutton was on duty at Parkland Hospital on Nov 22, 1963 when President Kennedy was brought in with multiple gunshot wounds. She assisted Doctors while they worked to save the President's life. In her official statement she says JFK had a "massive opening in the rear of his head". Several Doctors also stated that JFK had a "Huge EXIT wound in the rear of his head. Because her statement contradicted the official gov version her statement was Classified as TOP SECRET. ___________________________ NURSE PHYLLIS HALL PARKLAND NURSE PHYLLIS J. HALL DESCRIBING PRESIDENT KENNEDY'S BACK-OF-THE-HEAD-WOUND: "...From the front, it didn't look bad at all, the damage was back here ..." (Ms. Hall places her hand on the right side occipital-parietal region of the back of her head to demonstrate the location if the wound). 1:12 of the video "JFK shooting witness: nurse recalls day President Kennedy was shot in Dallas". Following link is already cued for you to 1:12: "...As surgeons feverishly worked on the President’s lifeless body, Phyllis made a startling discovery. She reveals: “Mr Kennedy had such a thick head of hair, and few people noticed the gaping wound to his skull. The bullet had ripped it clean away. “His brain was severely damaged and the blood loss was huge. “But, as we continued to work, I held his head. “I could see a bullet lodged between his ear and his shoulder. It was pointed at its tip and showed no signs of damage. I remember looking at it – there was no blunting of the bullet or scarring around the shell from where it had been fired. “I’d had a great deal of experience working with gunshot wounds but I had never seen anything like this before. “It was about one-and-a-half inches long – nothing like the bullets that were later produced. “It was taken away but never have I seen it presented in evidence or heard what happened to it. It remains a mystery.”..." ______________ 'EXCLUSIVE: JFK, the accidental trauma nurse and the disappearance of a 'mystery bullet'' "Dallas nurse Phyllis Hall held President John F Kennedy's shattered head as staff tried to resuscitate him and also treated 'attention seeker' Jack Ruby" By Christopher Bucktin, United States Editor | MIRROR | , 10 Nov 2013 | https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/nurse-phyllis-hall-tells-efforts-2713685 ___________________________ NURSE SHARON TUOHY JFK BACK-OF-HEAD WOUND DESCRIPTION BY PARKLAND NURSE SHARON TUOHY "...The back of his head, above the base of his skull, contained a large cavity which appeared to be an ugly wound. A lot of tissue showing, a lot of blood in the area on the head. The wound appeared big enough for both fists to go into. Both doubled up fists could fit into the area..." '1977 HSCA INTERVIEW WITH PARKLAND NURSE SHARON TUOHY -- COMPLETE' Description of back-of-the-head wound starts at 03:12 of the video to which I have cued the video for you in advance as follows: Denis Morissette | Feb 4, 2020 | https://youtu.be/OcArjV84TkI?si=YnMKl6NhZPi5e1HI ___________________________ NURSE MARGARET HOOD Margaret Hood "sketched a gaping hole in the occipital region which extended only slightly into the parietal area." You really should be more discriminating about what witnesses you offer up in support of your arguments. It hurt your argument yesterday when you presented Canada as an important witness, when the only source for his supposed statements was Kurtz, who fabricated his interviews. And now, well, some of your nurses are also problematic. I mean, really... Bell??? Where are her descriptions of the head wounds in the WC's files, or personal diaries, or anywhere prior to the publication of the McClelland drawing showing her what she was supposed to have seen? Bell, for that matter, received a lot of attention after telling conspiracy theorists she'd received far more fragments from Connally's wrist than was placed in the record. And, apparently she liked the attention, because around this same time she started telling this story about marching into Trauma Room One and asking to be shown the head wound, or some such thing. I mean, it's not as if the doctors were busy or anything. In any event, this led Lifton (yes, Lifton and I were friends...for the most part...) to tell me she was a fake. And I believed him. But then Micah found an article from the 60's in which she told of going into Trauma Room One and seeing the head wound, so I thought well, maybe she was on the up and up, after all. But when I read the article it turned out she'd said she received the same number of fragments as reported by the Warren Commission. Well, this proved that her latter day recollections had been spiced up to be oooh creepy, and this destroyed her credibility regarding the head wound as well. And Hall, she is an obvious fake. I was as surprised as anyone when she popped out of nowhere in 2013 in articles and programs. No one had ever heard of her, and yet she made out that she was intimately involved in Kennedy's care at Parkland. It was total nonsense. She admitted she didn't work in the ER and she admitted she never told her husband about helping with the President's care. In 2013, I created a blog, in which I tracked the media's response to the 50th anniversary. And I reported on the content of numerous TV shows, books, and articles, and reported on the bias on display. (The coverage was biased towards the LN theory by a ratio of roughly two to one.) In any event, here are my entries regarding Hall. November 3: an article appears in The Telegraph, in which four witnesses of the events of 11-22-63 are interviewed. Two of these witnesses, James Tague and former Parkland nurse Phyllis Hall, admit they believe there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy. What? Never heard of Hall? Here's her story: “Phyllis Hall, a nurse in the outpatient clinic who happened to be talking with a friend who worked on the triage desk in the emergency ward, was about to be swept up in the whirlwind of history. 'The supervisor said there had been a call to say there was an accident in the president’s motorcade,' she said. The words were hardly out of her mouth when the doors burst open. 'Among the first in was Lyndon Johnson, the vice president, who was very pale and sweating heavily. Then I heard the groans of someone calling out in grave pain. It was Governor John Connally, who was seriously injured in the attack. Then they carried in a second stretcher. I could just see a man from his waist down as there was a lady lying across his head and shoulders. A doctor told me: 'We need you here.’ We were whisked into the Trauma One room, where it was immediately clear that this was President Kennedy. I started to feel for his vital signs. I couldn’t find any, there was no pulse. His eyelids were half-closed, his pupils were fixed and dilated, and his skin was blueish-grey, indicating that no oxygen was circulating.' As the doctors worked frantically to resuscitate their patient, Mrs Kennedy stood next to her husband, her right hand on his left foot. 'We were desperately searching for any sign of life, but there was nothing,” said Hall. “The treatment the president received that day was outstanding but futile. I believe he was dead when he arrived at the hospital.' At 1 pm, Kemp Clark, a senior surgeon, pronounced the president dead. Mrs Kennedy did not flinch. 'There was no response,' said Hall. 'I have never seen anyone in such profound shock in my life. She had the same blank look on her face. She just looked down and stared blankly.'” Towards the end of the article, it notes that Tague thinks Oswald was a patsy. It then relates: "Hall, the former Parkland nurse, is much less strident but she is also convinced, from the wounds that she saw, that the president was hit from the front and back – meaning that Oswald could not be a lone gunman. 'Oh, I don’t think the Warren Commission got it right,' she said. 'I am a big believer in the conspiracy theories.'" The other two witnesses, Dallas Deputy Sheriff Gene Boone, and newsman Pierce Allman, make clear they believe there had been no conspiracy. The article is not a score for either side. November 10: the Daily Mail runs an article on Phyllis Hall, the woman claiming to have been one of Kennedy's nurses previously discussed in an article in The Telegraph. It begins: "A nurse who was part of desperate attempts to save the life of President John F Kennedy after he was assassinated has claimed he was shot by a 'mystery bullet'. Phyllis Hall, who was 28 at the time, says she was dragged into the operating room by a secret service agent as medics scrambled to help the president, who was fatally shot in Dallas, Texas on 22 November 1963. While cradling his head, which had been torn apart by gunshots fired from the famous 'grassy knoll', Mrs Hall says she spotted an unusual bullet, which was promptly removed and never seen again. She described the bullet in an interview with the Sunday Mirror which she said looked completely undamaged, and bore no resemblance whatsoever to bullets later shown as evidence in investigations into the President's murder. She said: 'I could see a bullet lodged between his ear and his shoulder. It was pointed at its tip and showed no signs of damage. There was no blunting of the bullet or scarring around the shell from where it had been fired. 'I’d had a great deal of experience working with gunshot wounds but I had never seen anything like this before. It was about one-and-a-half inches long – nothing like the bullets that were later produced. 'It was taken away but never have I seen it presented in evidence or heard what happened to it. It remains a mystery.' Mrs Hall, who had six years of nursing experience at the time, says she was caught up in the effort to save the President by accident, as she had been visiting a friend who worked on another ward. She described the chaos as Mr Kennedy's entourage burst through the doors, and recalled clearly the vacant expression of First Lady Jackie Kennedy. Mrs Kennedy reportedly gripped the President's right foot as surgeons wages a losing battle to save him. Mrs Hall, now 78, says she offered her condolences after a neurosurgeon pronounced Mr Kennedy dead after a 43-minute struggle by as many as 20 staff. However, she says the shocked First Lady simply stared into the distance. As her shift didn't finish until the evening, Mrs Hall continued working for hours after the President was declared dead, and didn't even tell her husband what she had witnessed. However, in recent interviews she revealed that she is 'a big believer in the conspiracy theories' surrounding the Mr Kennedy's death." Well, this is the kind of stuff the lone-nuts love to complain about. There is no support offered in the Warren Commission's files indicating that Phyllis Hall was ever in Trauma Room One. There is no support offered from anyone known to have been working at Parkland in 1963 that she was anywhere near the emergency room. And yet, she gets quoted in a prominent paper/news website, and tells a crazy story that has no support whatsoever from anyone known to have been at Parkland. That she's lying is supported, moreover, by her claiming she was visiting someone on another ward, and didn't tell her husband what she'd witnessed. In the words of the Church Lady on Saturday Night Live: "Now, ain't that convenient!" It's also intriguing that Ms. Hall is totally unknown in the States, but is suddenly a celebrity in England. November 17: The Los Angeles Times runs an article on three witnesses to the events of 11-22-63. Tina Towner says nothing of substance as to conspiracy or no conspiracy. Pierce Allman says he feels guilt because if he'd looked up and saw Oswald in the sniper's nest window he could have stopped Oswald at the doorway and stopped him from killing Tippit. And then there's Phyllis Hall, who I feel fairly certain is a fake. Her story this time around: "Suddenly, Hall saw a man carrying a long gun approach. FBI, police and Secret Service agents were everywhere, and many were armed. "He put his hand on my back and said, 'We need you back here,' and directed her to Trauma Room No. 1, she said. The small room was filled with so many doctors, nurses and others that at one point Hall was forced against a wall. Kennedy's face was deep blue around the eyes, and she could see a bullet hole near his Adam's apple. Hall checked for a pulse but didn't feel one. She watched as doctors performed a tracheotomy through the president's neck wound. Hall saw Jackie Kennedy standing nearby, her pink Chanel suit spattered with her husband's brain matter. A doctor lifted the president's hair to reveal the gaping wound. 'Jackie just stood at the foot of the carriage with her hand on his foot,' Hall said. 'She was in such deep shock, she was just staring at his face. At some point the supervisor came in and asked if she would like a chair out in the hallway and she said no, she was going to stay with him. We all wanted to do whatever we could, but there was nothing we could do.' Dr. William Kemp Clark, who to Hall looked like an old schoolmaster with beady eyes behind small glasses, pronounced Kennedy dead at 1 p.m. 'Call it,' the doctor said and then strode out past Jackie Kennedy, barely stopping as he said, 'Madam, your husband is dead.' Hall approached the first lady and said, "I am so sorry for your loss," but Kennedy just stared straight ahead and didn't seem to hear." Well, my God! This woman's story is so obviously false. There is no record of her being in the room. And here she is changing her story from being asked into the room by a doctor to being forced into the room at gunpoint. She says she took the vitals. She says she spoke to Mrs. Kennedy afterward. Horse feathers! More telling than that, though, is the L.A. Times' leaving out a key feature of Hall's story--the wound's being on the back of Kennedy's head! Edited January 12 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: If you want to believe that the odds of a doctor confusing the top of the head with the back of the head is nearly 100% -- simply because the patient is lying down -- well that's your prerogative. Incredibly, "Conspiracy Of One" author Jim Moore actually believed such a nonsensical thing. Quoting from my review of Moore's otherwise good pro-LN book: ------------------ "The second thing in this book that I cannot accept at all is Mr. Moore's explanation of why almost all of the witnesses at Parkland Hospital said they saw a large wound in the back of President Kennedy's head on November 22nd. To quote from page 180 of his book: "...The explanation for this [head wound] discrepancy is so simple few will subscribe to it. The Parkland doctors all saw President Kennedy in only one position--face up. An exit wound across his forehead might have been labeled 'at the front of the skull', but a wound on the right side? Doctors would have seen the missing area 'at the rear of the skull', of course." -- Jim Moore The above explanation is pure nonsense (even though I am an "LNer" myself). Moore is telling his readers, in essence, that ALL of the many Parkland doctors and nurses actually did see the President's head wound on the "right side" of his head, but EACH ONE OF THEM was apparently stupid enough to somehow label the wound's location as being at the BACK part of the head. (And each of these Parkland persons would later demonstrate with their own hands where they thought the wound was located; with each person placing their hand on a REAR portion of their own head.) It's just silly to think that ALL of these Parkland witnesses would somehow be disoriented enough to NOT know the "side" of the head from the "rear" of the head. And all just because JFK was lying flat on his back the whole time. It seems to me that such a strange explanation would be akin to becoming confused about the location of a person's ear, just due to the fact the person is lying down. For example, why would anyone suddenly think an ear was located at the BACK of a person's head, rather than the "side" of the head?" Edited January 12 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) On 1/12/2024 at 12:58 AM, David Von Pein said: Incredibly, "Conspiracy Of One" author Jim Moore actually believed such a nonsensical thing. Quoting from my review of Moore's otherwise good pro-LN book: ------------------ "The second thing in this book that I cannot accept at all is Mr. Moore's explanation of why almost all of the witnesses at Parkland Hospital said they saw a large wound in the back of President Kennedy's head on November 22nd. To quote from page 180 of his book: "...The explanation for this [head wound] discrepancy is so simple few will subscribe to it. The Parkland doctors all saw President Kennedy in only one position--face up. An exit wound across his forehead might have been labeled 'at the front of the skull', but a wound on the right side? Doctors would have seen the missing area 'at the rear of the skull', of course." -- Jim Moore The above explanation is pure nonsense (even though I am an "LNer" myself). Moore is telling his readers, in essence, that ALL of the many Parkland doctors and nurses actually did see the President's head wound on the "right side" of his head, but EACH ONE OF THEM was apparently stupid enough to somehow label the wound's location as being at the BACK part of the head. (And each of these Parkland persons would later demonstrate with their own hands where they thought the wound was located; with each person placing their hand on a REAR portion of their own head.) It's just silly to think that ALL of these Parkland witnesses would somehow be disoriented enough to NOT know the "side" of the head from the "rear" of the head. And all just because JFK was lying flat on his back the whole time. It seems to me that such a strange explanation would be akin to becoming confused about the location of a person's ear, just due to the fact the person is lying down. For example, why would anyone suddenly think an ear was located at the BACK of a person's head, rather than the "side" of the head?" If you read books on cognition, you will find that people are often confused about the appearance of something in a uniform manner, and that one of the chief causes of confusion comes from viewing something, such as a face, while it is rotated from how it would normally be viewed. Edited January 14 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now