Could Oswald practice shooting whenever he wanted in the marines?

[Gerry Down]

A few weeks after Oswald first entered the marines, in December 1956, he scored 212, which was slightly above the requirements for the designation of sharpshooter. In May 1959 he scored 191, which reduced his rating to marksman.

In a recent interview Larry Hancock made the point that this may have been because Oswald was practicing more with the rifle in the run up to the Dec 1956 test and so scored better but had been working in radar in the run up to the May 1959 test and so possibly had been practicing less.

As someone who has not served in the military, I was wondering could any marine such as Oswald practice shooting on the shooting range whenever they wanted? I presume a marine would be allowed to practice, and probably specifically encouraged to practice, in the run up to a test such as the one in May 1959. If so, then Oswald had no real excuse for failing to score as a sharpshooter on the May 1959 test. 

I presume there could have been consequences if he had failed he test? Such as being docked pay etc. Or not being allowed to deploy outside the U.S. on any mission. 

LINK (41 minutes 30 seconds): 

 

[Ron Ege]

On 3/22/2024 at 8:11 AM, Gerry Down said:

A few weeks after Oswald first entered the marines, in December 1956, he scored 212, which was slightly above the requirements for the designation of sharpshooter. In May 1959 he scored 191, which reduced his rating to marksman.

In a recent interview Larry Hancock made the point that this may have been because Oswald was practicing more with the rifle in the run up to the Dec 1956 test and so scored better but had been working in radar in the run up to the May 1959 test and so possibly had been practicing less.

As someone who has not served in the military, I was wondering could any marine such as Oswald practice shooting on the shooting range whenever they wanted? I presume a marine would be allowed to practice, and probably specifically encouraged to practice, in the run up to a test such as the one in May 1959. If so, then Oswald had no real excuse for failing to score as a sharpshooter on the May 1959 test. 

I presume there could have been consequences if he had failed he test? Such as being docked pay etc. Or not being allowed to deploy outside the U.S. on any mission. 

LINK (41 minutes 30 seconds): 

 

Gerry,

Excellent question.

Anecdotally, I will weigh in - simply, as a 29 plus years USAF veteran ('61-'90), having had much inter-service interaction with other services' members over those years, with discussions relative to differences in their respective basic training courses to include such topics as initial rifle qualification, as well as annual rifle requalification, thereafter.

I believe Larry's assumption to be correct.  As far as I am aware, each service's initial rifle qualification course is more extensive than the annual qualification course.  Thus, it is not surprising that Oswald's initial qualification score would be better than his subsequent annual score because of the initial qualification training's overall intensity.  Annual qualification training is of the "refresher" type - given the fact that one has previously experienced a "baseline; no need to "begin from scratch".

Over the years, I found it not unusual that not only USAF but also other services' members, experienced their best score on their initial rifle qualification.  The exception to the rule might have been a service member assigned "combat arms" designation, e.g., one sometimes respectfully referred to as a "grunt" or "ground-pounder", i.e., a MOS certified "job" - specifically, as a rifleman, thereby being granted more training/practice than those who are not.  If memory serves, Oswald was a radar operator - having no need undergo specialized rifle training/practice.

Personally, in '61, at 18 years of age, with the M-1 Carbine, never having fired a rifle or pistol before, I scored one point below expert.  Subsequent years proved to be less successful - scoring low in the sharpshooter range.

Before leaving for Vietnam in '66, I had to go through the initial qualification with the USAF'S newly adopted M-16.  I reached one point above expert.  Thereafter, never again - scoring only in the low to mid-range sharpshooter range. 

Fortuitously, in June '61 whilst in basic training at Lackland AFB, TX, on an "extra duty day",  I was assigned to the office of the official USAF Rifle Team whose members competed with other services.  The non-coms there were "extra kind" and treated me as if I were human!.

My duties were light, and I was able to spend most of the day in casual conversation with them, regarding their duties.  For them, along as their other sundry duties were completed, they could pretty much - "practice as much as they wanted".

So, unless Oswald was an official USMC Rifle Team member (I've not aware, if he was), it is much more that highly doubtful that he would have had carte blanche - when it came to range time.  His normal and additional duties time would've precluded extensive practice, not withstanding the fact that budgetary manpower/equipment/ammunition considerations would have also precluded "practicing as much as he wanted".

Even so, let's allow that Oswald clandestinely was somehow able to "practice as much as he wanted" with the M1 Rifle.  How beneficial would that have been, considering the his alleged dastardly deed was done with the MC?  Did some unknown person procure a MC rifle for him to practice?  Not that anyone knows of.

Those with even a rudimentary knowledge of rifle shooting absolutely know that there a huge difference between operating a bolt action rifle versus a semi-automatic.  The experience is not precisely linear nor exactly transferable between the two rifle types.

Oswald's alleged shooting prowess has been much discussed, here and elsewhere.  Personally, I am unaware of anyone, in the "recreations" of the alleged 11/22/63 assassination scenario, equaling Oswald's feat. Those world's expert riflemen were allowed practice shots before the recreation.  Additionally, the alleged MC's condition, as found on 11/22/63's had been markedly "improved) and the exact shooting scenario (height/distance) at a moving target no less, was also "improved".

Do I believe that Oswald could still have "dun it".  I suppose so - as long as someone can show me a study, where, without artificial means, ""pigs can fly".

I only share the above with the thought that it may help to generate some interest/comments in your post.  Further, it is my hope is that one of the members here is a USMC veteran of the late '50s/early '60s era or perhaps knows someone who was and can relay their thoughts/comments, furthering our understanding of USMC rifle qualification' specifics, back in the day.

Gerry, thanks; you contribute much here, and I enjoy your posts.

 

  

[Gerry Down]

1 hour ago, Ron Ege said:

Those with even a rudimentary knowledge of rifle shooting absolutely know that there a huge difference between operating a bolt action rifle versus a semi-automatic.  The experience is not precisely linear nor exactly transferable between the two rifle types.

Thanks for that insightful response. I had not considered that due to budgetary constraints, marines could not just go to the rifle range whenever they wanted and shoot. Perhaps if they were about to go on an overseas mission, then they would be allowed practice on the rifle range, but unless there was a realistic chance of seeing live action, i guess the marines would have limited access to the rifle range on base. 

With regard to your comment above, you say the skillset between a MC and an M1 are not exactly transferrable. Could the same be said between an M1 and a shotgun? The reason i say this is because Oswald is said to have been a poor shot with a shotgun while he was in Russia, and i just wonder if the practice he had been doing with the M1 while in the marines could have affected his shotgun skills to the point that it degraded them due to his being used to firing the M1.  

[Ron Ege]

22 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Thanks for that insightful response. I had not considered that due to budgetary constraints, marines could not just go to the rifle range whenever they wanted and shoot. Perhaps if they were about to go on an overseas mission, then they would be allowed practice on the rifle range, but unless there was a realistic chance of seeing live action, i guess the marines would have limited access to the rifle range on base. 

With regard to your comment above, you say the skillset between a MC and an M1 are not exactly transferrable. Could the same be said between an M1 and a shotgun? The reason i say this is because Oswald is said to have been a poor shot with a shotgun while he was in Russia, and i just wonder if the practice he had been doing with the M1 while in the marines could have affected his shotgun skills to the point that it degraded them due to his being used to firing the M1.  

Gerry, thanks.

I cannot speak for Oswald, but my skills with either would not necessarily be affected by shooting one of them more than the other.