Was JFK's body re-introduced into the Dallas coffin?

[Denise Hazelwood]

5 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Was JFK's body buried at Arlington in that Dallas Bronze casket?

If not, I could imagine it was melted down later and used to make an Aircraft carrier anchor.

 

Actually it was dumped into the ocean, a “burial at sea.” There was also some controversy about it not being paid for in a timely manner.

[Denise Hazelwood]

13 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

I believe James was the only person to have never left the morgue that night.Not for x-rays & not to get something to eat.

He might not have left the morgue, but he was not with the body the whole time. He had to wash various organs at the sink, and I think that he missed certain important things.

[Michael Crane]

15 hours ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

There was also a rumor about a helicopter landing on the roof at Bethesda, adding one more layer to the casket conundrum.

I think that you can add another helicopter landing at Bethesda that night.And if I'm not mistaken...it came from Paul O'Connor.

[Michael Crane]

9 minutes ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

He might not have left the morgue, but he was not with the body the whole time. He had to wash various organs at the sink, and I think that he missed certain important things.

Hi Denise,

I'm going to hijack this thread right now ask you your opinion on Sandra Spencer saying that she witnessed a brain beside JFK's body when she developed the autopsy pictures?

What I have in mind is the autopsy doctors signaling "SOS" that something terrible is going on & they are trying to tell us.

Edited May 8 by Michael Crane

[Denise Hazelwood]

20 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

I'm going to hijack this thread right now ask you your opinion on Sandra Spencer saying that she witnessed a brain beside JFK's body when she developed the autopsy pictures?

What I have in mind is the autopsy doctors signaling "SOS" that something terrible is going on & they are trying to tell us.

I can’t speak to what Saundra Spencer saw. However, her testimony certainly supports the image alteration thesis.

I also have no doubt that the autopsy doctors were pressured into saying something other than the truth. I am a pretty good judge of tone, and when Humes said what a “pleasure” it was to have the autopsy images (HSCA televised testimony), there was an awful lot of DISpleasure in his tone. He might have been ordered to go to the “enhanced” (composite) lateral image. But notice how he pointed to the opposite part of the head when he was asked to identify the entry point, whereas in his WC testimony he said that both the entrance and exit were at the rear of the head. I think that in his way, but without the courage to endanger his retirement or freedom (for violating orders), he was trying to say that there were 2 head shots. Others will disagree with me, I know, but that’s my view.

Edited May 8 by Denise Hazelwood
Add clarification

[Michael Crane]

Yes,there are other occasions where I....right or wrong think that Humes was trying to tell us something terrible is happening.

 

Once again folks,I certainly appreciate your input on my questions because,I know that they are difficult to answer.

Edited May 9 by Michael Crane

[Nick Bartetzko]

So much deceit going on that night that it's hard to keep track. We also have the Janie Taylor story about orderly Clarence Israel. There was a thread on here years ago which I can't find. But here's some info from the website https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/clarence-isreal/

Most Americans of a certain age have heard numerous conspiracy theories concerning the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. One of those theories involves Pint Isreal as a witness to Kennedy’s autopsy. Healthy skepticism should be employed as the origin of this theory is revealed. Returned to Washington, Kennedy’s body was taken to the Bethesda Naval Hospital, directly across the street from the NIH campus where Isreal was known to have worked. There is a file with Clarence Isreal’s name on it in the collection of the National Archives pertaining to Kennedy’s assassination.

The claim comes from the book Murder From Within: Lyndon Johnson’s Plot Against President Kennedy, by Fred T. Newcomb and Perry Adams. The book was written in 1974 and only about 100 copies were distributed then as a self-printed manuscript. The version relevant to Isreal was the first full publication of the book in 2011. By that time Fred Newcomb was 82 years old and ailing, and Perry Adams was deceased. The passages pertinent to Pint are contained in the foreword by Fred Newcomb’s son, Tyler Newcomb. Around 2004, he learned via a document posted online by the National Archives that Clarence Isreal had told NIH biologist Janie Taylor that his brother (unnamed and deceased) had been on duty as an orderly in the autopsy room in the Bethesda Naval Hospital on November 22, 1963, when Kennedy’s body was present. Newcomb assumed that the relevant brother was Elbert (Al). Supposedly, there was one point in the process at which many people were forced out of the room, and one doctor manipulated the bullet wounds in some way. Elbert allegedly witnessed this as it happened. Later in the foreword, Tyler Newcomb wrote that a man named Jim Lavin had spoken with Mrs. Elbert Isreal, who verified that her late husband had been on duty in the hospital’s morgue on the night of November 22. According to this account, Mrs. Isreal added that Clarence Isreal had also been on duty there that evening.33 However, neither Jackie Smith nor Michael Johnson had ever heard mention of Pint having had a job at the Bethesda Naval Hospital.

Elbert Isreal, like Pint, was employed by NIH, but no evidence has been found to show that Elbert was employed by the Bethesda Naval Hospital. On the other hand, Dewey Isreal, Pint’s older brother, was known to be a Bethesda Naval Center employee in 1963. An issue of the Naval Medical Center News of 1963 places Dewey on the Center’s intramural softball team in July of that year, but he was a cook, not an orderly.34 It must be remembered that Pint was reporting on a deceased brother who supposedly was in the autopsy room. It is not known when Pint spoke to Janie Taylor about this story, but Pint died in 1987. Janie Taylor reported the story to the representative of the Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board in 1995.35 Elbert Isreal was alive until 1996 and Dewey Isreal lived until 1999. The facts just don’t line up.

The Clarence Isreal file at the National Archives contains 16 documents, all of which are perfunctory personnel records. They range from job applications to assignment transfers to reports of minor injuries to statements of minor organizational changes. One document contains a signed oath of allegiance by Isreal to the US Constitution, along with an affidavit that he did not advocate the use of force to overthrow the government; that document was dated October 13, 1947. The materials suggest that the staff of the Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board did their assigned duty in trying to accumulate information about Pint that might link him in some way to the Bethesda Naval Hospital or the assassination, but nothing in the file succeeds in doing that.

Pint Isreal died of a heart attack on April 12, 1987, at Shady Grove Hospital in Rockville. He is buried in Gate of Heaven Cemetery in Silver Spring, Maryland, along with his wife, Florence.

In February 1988, the city of Rockville named a park after Pint. A plaque marking the dedication of the Clarence “Pint” Isreal Park hangs on the outside of the Lincoln Park Community Center, next to the entrance to the parking lot for the park. Fittingly, the park contains a baseball field, along with other amenities, such as a picnic area and playground equipment for the younger children.

James Coyle, a Rockville councilman in 1988 and later the mayor, was present for the dedication of the Isreal Park. Reflecting on the ceremony, Coyle said, “It was an honor to take part in the dedication of the park in the name of this man who was such a positive influence in the Lincoln Park community.”36

To close the story of Pint Isreal, it is perhaps fitting to use his own words. When asked if he had any advice for future generations, his reply was, “Love God, have faith, and love thy neighbor as thyself.”37

 

Acknowledgements

Gary Ashwill, moderator of Seamheads.com.

Sheila Bashiri, preservation planner, City of Rockville.

James Coyle, former mayor and councilman, City of Rockville.

Irene Curry, daughter of Mike Snowden and cousin of Russell Awkard.

Bob Golon, member, Society for American Baseball Research.

Billy Gordon, Montgomery County public school system.

Burt Hall, former director, Rockville Department of Recreation and Parks.

Khali Isreal, grandson of Pint Isreal.

Michael Johnson, friend of Pint Isreal.

Mark Kibiloski, Rockville Department of Recreation and Parks.

Peerless Rockville staff.

Jackie Smith, nephew of Pint Isreal (son of Pint’s sister Beatrice).

George Snowden, nephew of Irene Curry.

Richard Cuicchi, member, Society for American Baseball Research.

Wayne Stivers, member, Society for American Baseball Research.

Sween Library (Rockville) staff.

 

Sources

In addition to the sources cited in the Notes, the author consulted baseball-reference.com; the Negro Leagues database at seamheads.com; “Negro Leaguers Who served With the Armed Forces in WW II,” at cnlbr.org; various newspapers; and the following:

Luke, Bob. The Most Famous Woman in Baseball: Effa Manley and the Negro Leagues (Dulles, Virginia: Potomac Books, 2011).

Abstract of interview of Eileen McGuckian with Violet Isreal and Willie Mae Isreal Carey on September 27, 1983, in files of Peerless Rockville, the historical society of Rockville.

Undated tribute document to Clarence Isreal in files of Peerless Rockville.  

File with Title “Medical Isreal, Clarence” in Box 3 of Miscellaneous Files of JFK Assassination Records at National Archives, College Park, Maryland; stack location 650L1/67/19/6.

 

Notes

1 The children were: Louise, age 17 (F); Willie May, 16 (F); Dewey, 13 (M); Clarence, 12 (M); Goldie, 9 (F); Frank (Mack), 7 (M); Beatrice, 5 (F); Elbert, 2 (M); Violet, infant (F); and Barbara Shelton, 1 (F), Frank Isreal’s granddaughter. Frank and Violet became the parents of three additional children following the 1930 census, as Eileen McGuckian in her book Rockville: Portrait of a City, reported that there were 12 children in the Isreal family. That number was confirmed by Clarence’s son, Robert, in a 2004 interview, in which he stated that there were six boys and six girls. The two additional brothers were Freddie and James. The additional sister was Irene. Also see oral history interview by Shelby Spillers, preservation planner, City of Rockville, with Bobby Isreal, son of Pint, on March 17, 2004 — located in files of Peerless Rockville, the city’s historical society.

2 Eileen McGuckian, Rockville: Portrait of a City (Franklin, Tennessee: Hillsboro Press, 2001), 102.

3 Author’s telephone interview with Michael Johnson in April 2018.

4 Washington Evening Star, May 26, 1939; Hagerstown (Maryland) Daily Mail, May 31, 1939.

5 Montgomery Journal (Chevy Chase, Maryland), April 20, 1987.

6 Jersey Journal (Jersey City), July 29, 1940.

7 James A. Riley, The Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Baseball Leagues (New York: Carroll & Graf, 1994), 706.

8 Salisbury (Maryland) Times, August 21, 1940.

9 Jersey Journal, September 9, 1941.

10 Washington Evening Star, May 28, 1941.

11 Larry Lester, Black Baseball’s National Showcase: The East-West All-Star Game 1933-1953 (Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 2001), 171.

12 Spillers interview with Bobby Isreal.

13 Author’s telephone interview with Jackie Smith of Fort Washington, Maryland, in May 2018. Jackie Smith is a nephew of Pint Isreal.

14 Washington Evening Star, June 28, 1942.

15 Sacramento Bee, March 27, 1943.

16 Baltimore Afro-American, August 18, 1946.

17 Pittsburgh Courier, August 10, 1946.

18 Indianapolis Recorder, September 14, 1946.

19 James A. Riley, 409.

20 Rockville Gazette, April 22, 1987.

21 NIH Record, July 21, 1978.

22 Asbury Park (New Jersey) Press, February 28, 1986.

23 Lawrence Hogan, Shades of Glory: The Negro Leagues and the Story of Afro-American Baseball (Des Moines, Iowa: National Geographic Books, 2007), 3.

24 Bruce Adelson, Brushing Back Jim Crow: The Integration of Minor League Baseball in the American South (Charlottesville: University of Virginia Press, 1999), 83-97.

25 Butch and his wife, Denise, had three children: Nayo Isreal, Omari Isreal, and Kimberly Nash. Bobby and his wife, Pamela, also had three children: Khali Isreal, Hasani Isreal, and Marjani Isreal. Michael’s marriage ended in divorce, and they did not have children.

26 Author’s telephone interview with Jackie Smith of Fort Washington, Maryland, May 2018.

27 Frederick (Maryland) News, June 16, 1949.

28 NIH Record, July 21, 1970.

29 Montgomery Journal, April 20, 1987; Rockville Gazette, April 22, 1987.

30 Author’s telephone interview with Michael Johnson, April 2018.

31 Ibid.

32 Voice message response left by Billy Johnson on author’s telephone, May 2018.

33 Fred T. Newcomb and Perry Adams, Murder From Within: Lyndon Johnson’s Plot Against President Kennedy (Bloomington, Indiana: AuthorHouse, 2011), xv.

34 National Naval Medical Center News, Volume 19, 1963. 

35 Newcomb and Adams.

36 Author’s telephone interview with James Coyle, January 2018.

37 Document with title “The United Black Cultural Center Presents ‘Let’s Reminisce with Montgomery County’s Black Baseball Players’ Dedicated to Clarence ‘Pint’ Isreal 6/26/1987,” located in the Clarence Isreal folder at Peerless Rockville.

Full Name

Clarence Charles Isreal 

Born

February 15, 1918 at Marietta, GA (US)

Died

April 12, 1987 at Rockville, MD (US)

Stats

Baseball Reference

 

Seamheads

 

If you can help us improve this player’s biography, contact us.

Tags

Negro Leaguers · 1946 Newark Eagles

 

[Michael Crane]

Hello Nick,

I myself think that I might have spoken about Clarence Isreal and another black Navy soldier being in the autopsy room that night?

Was it claimed,that since Isreal and another soldier were black,that they wouldn't be taken seriously?

That both men claimed to see the autopsy Dr's working in a hurried fashion? possibly before 8:00PM?

[Nick Bartetzko]

4 hours ago, Michael Crane said:

Hello Nick,

I myself think that I might have spoken about Clarence Isreal and another black Navy soldier being in the autopsy room that night?

Was it claimed,that since Isreal and another soldier were black,that they wouldn't be taken seriously?

That both men claimed to see the autopsy Dr's working in a hurried fashion? possibly before 8:00PM?

Hi Michael,

I wasn't aware it might also have been you. There's a thread from years ago on this here and one of the participants was forum member James Richards, who contributed a lot of valuable information back then. Your mention of 2 black orderlies is the only time I've heard that. Back in those days, segregation and discrimination were prevalent and I can certainly believe that a black  orderly would have been thought of and treated much differently. 
Mr Israel's mention of the alteration fits in with what we know about that night, conflicting versions of wounds, missing xrays and photos and the masterpiece of the interception and alteration of the Z film.