Did JFK's Inflammatory Orange Bowl Speech and Promises Trigger the JFKA?

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Robert Morrow said:

I don't know the full significance or truth of the following, but here is a data point:

Frank Sturgis, aka Frank Fiorini, who also claimed to have shot JFK, was set up in charge of 3,000 Cuban exiles in 1965, according to Julion Constanzo

             Author Scott Kaiser says LBJ personally appointed Constanzo #1 and Frank Sturgis #2 as leaders of this anti-Castro Cuban exile group.

             “A CIA report published information acquired in Miami in mid-July 1965, concerning the continuing involvement of Isadore Irving Davidson in the recruitment of Cuba exiles to go to the Dominican Republic as part of the Organization of American States (OAS) Force, and the plans of Cuban exiles hoping to recover Cuban exile Julio Aton Constanzo Palau, Davidson was acting on “orders from President Lyndon Johnson” and Johnson had asked Constanzo to increase the number of Cubans to as many as possible.       

            Constanzo claimed he was working with President Johnson, and that he appointed Frank Fiorini in charge of about 3,000 men, and their goal was to set up a “Government in Exile.”

 [Scott Kaiser, Edwin Kaiser’s Covert Life: and His Little Black Book Linking Cuba, Watergate & the JFK Assassination, p. 39]

 

RM-

Thanks for posting.  

Frank Sturgis/Fiorini was an interesting fellow, and indisputably part of the Watergate burglary team, which was possibly part of a CIA regime-change op. 

Like so many figures in the JFKA/RFK1A/Watergate miasma, hard to tell the truth about him, or when he is telling the truth. 

My take is that anti-Cuba ops stopped, and the war in Vietnam re-started (in spades), on Nov. 22. 

I will post some material shortly. Maybe we agree, maybe not. That is what a forum is for. 

[Kevin Balch]

I doubt that anyone used in the JFK assassination was ever used in another covert op, especially in the US. If there was any “clean up squad” these guys would be the first targets. Would you want someone with their knowledge to be caught and interrogated?

Most likely foreign operatives that would not look out of place in the US in 1963 and had good familiarity with US. The stage hands were likely domestic but the performers were a visiting cast.

Maybe an outsider like the Edward Fox character in Day of the Jackal who knew after the big job that he could never work again.

[Benjamin Cole]

32 minutes ago, Kevin Balch said:

I doubt that anyone used in the JFK assassination was ever used in another covert op, especially in the US. If there was any “clean up squad” these guys would be the first targets. Would you want someone with their knowledge to be caught and interrogated?

Most likely foreign operatives that would not look out of place in the US in 1963 and had good familiarity with US. The stage hands were likely domestic but the performers were a visiting cast.

Maybe an outsider like the Edward Fox character in Day of the Jackal who knew after the big job that he could never work again.

KB-

You may be right. 

But I wonder if the JFKA was all that sophisticated of an op. 

Remember, the JFKA was never really investigated, which gave the act an air of mystery and intrigue. Indeed, far from being investigated, the JFKA was covered up. 

If the JFKA was perped by rogue elements of the JMWave station of the CIA, or CIA asset Cuban exiles--which would still necessitate a cover-up--their plans might have been somewhat work-a-day, given that many exiles had actual military and combat experience. 

I suspect LHO had two co-conspirators, and they left the scene, which was easy enough to do. LHO never talked and was soon dead. 

The two others? Who knows. They might have died in raids on Cuba, or perhaps murdered as was Eladio Del Valle, in 1967. 

[Kevin Balch]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

KB-

You may be right. 

But I wonder if the JFKA was all that sophisticated of an op. 

Remember, the JFKA was never really investigated, which gave the act an air of mystery and intrigue. Indeed, far from being investigated, the JFKA was covered up. 

If the JFKA was perped by rogue elements of the JMWave station of the CIA, or CIA asset Cuban exiles--which would still necessitate a cover-up--their plans might have been somewhat work-a-day, given that many exiles had actual military and combat experience. 

I suspect LHO had two co-conspirators, and they left the scene, which was easy enough to do. LHO never talked and was soon dead. 

The two others? Who knows. They might have died in raids on Cuba, or perhaps murdered as was Eladio Del Valle, in 1967. 

No contradiction between a low footprint operation and foreign instigation.

The Cuban exile community was pretty heavily infiltrated by Castro who probably knew what was going on almost as soon as it happened.

Could have actually been instigated by Castro infiltrators recruiting anti-Castro types into the plot. The planning is often convoluted to obfuscate the origins. The actual killing has to be simple to assure success. The coverup depends on how successful the execution was.

The Lincoln assassination was originally a plot to kidnap Lincoln to negotiate an end to the war. Somewhere along the line it morphed into an assassination of Lincoln, Seward and Johnson - all the most moderate members of the administration with regard to reincorporating the Confederate states back into the Union. Which would have greatly diminished the power of the Radical Republicans.

[Robert Morrow]

10 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

RM-

Thanks for posting.  

Frank Sturgis/Fiorini was an interesting fellow, and indisputably part of the Watergate burglary team, which was possibly part of a CIA regime-change op. 

Like so many figures in the JFKA/RFK1A/Watergate miasma, hard to tell the truth about him, or when he is telling the truth. 

My take is that anti-Cuba ops stopped, and the war in Vietnam re-started (in spades), on Nov. 22. 

I will post some material shortly. Maybe we agree, maybe not. That is what a forum is for. 

Here is one thing I know for sure, Lyndon Johnson adopted a much more disagreeable tact with Cuba than the one that JFK and William Atwood were about to work on. That was the whole point of JFK sending a leftist journalist Jean Daniel to have a chat with Castro.

When LBJ says the Kennedys were running "Murder Inc." down in the Carribean, I just have to laugh. LBJ was running Murder Inc. in Texas (Sam Smithwick 1952, freeing Mac Wallace off of a murder conviction also 1952, murdering Henry Marshall 1961, killing JFK 1963).

I do know in 2013 I met high level inner circle anti-Castro Cuban and I asked him in summer, 2013, what did you think about Lyndon Johnson and his answer was "He was a very nice man." I take that to mean that LBJ was doing something behind the scenes to mess with Castro.

This man also told us that George Herbert Walker Bush was very plugged in with the anti-Castro Cubans and back then (early 60s)  Bush had given them all "Phantom rings" - remember the Phantom ring from the comic strip "The Phantom?" The Phantom - Wikipedia . The Phantom had a skull ring like this: Phantom Skull Ring for sale | eBay

In this man's house I met the INFAMOUS Luis Posada Carriles, then age 85. Posada drove over to this old anti-Castro Cuban's house and he looked nothing like the photo at Wiki - Luis Posada Carriles - Wikipedia  He was proud then at age 85 to be hated still by Castro (who later died in 2016). Posada in 1976 blew up a Cuban airliner that had 73 Cuban nationals on it. So he is what is called a "terrorist."

The old Cuban who I talked with said he wished he had never gotten involved in politics in anti-Castro activities; he had lost so much (his land, his home, his successful business back in Cuba). Instead, he said, he wished that he had stayed in Cuba, kept his mouth shut, and not come out publicly as an enemy of Fidel Castro. 

These old men, in 2013, many of them in their 80s, were still mad as hell at Castro and were game to be plotting to kill Castro. Even at that age.

Edited 1 hour ago by Robert Morrow