Harry Dean: Memoirs

[Ernie Lazar]

<snip>

In conclusion, I repeat a comment from a previous message. As you might expect, there are new books being published to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the assassination. Significantly, the ones I have seen do not even mention Harry Dean's story. I know what you will say about that --- but since scholars now have over 5 million pages of JFK-related papers available for research at NARA -- it does seem odd that nobody thinks Harry's story merits any serious attention -- not even as a footnote. Even the Wikipedia page which summarizes all the various JFK conspiracy theories does not mention Harry Dean -- unless you want to subsume Harry under the more generic anti-Castro Cubans theory.

Ernie, it is significant that very few writers in the JFK assassination research field mention Harry Dean.

However, it is equally significant that very few writers in the JFK assassination research field mention General Walker.

It is equally significant that no JFK researcher in the past 50 years has solved the riddles of the JFK assassination.

It is also significant that the Warren Commission volumes mentioned General Walker more than 500 times, while the HSCA decided to ignore General Walker's testimony.

In my humble opinion, after years of reading JFK research books, General Walker has been overlooked in history.

If I am correct, this explains very well why Harry Dean has been overlooked in history -- because Harry's eye-witness confessions also place General Walker front and center in the JFK assassination scenario.

I suppose that it is difficult -- if not impossible -- for Americans to suspect one of the victorious Generals of WW2 of anything criminal. Only in the immediate wake of the JFK assassination would America tolerate the examination of General Walker.

In my humble opinion, General Edwin Walker got away with fomenting a riot at Ole Miss in 1962 in which hundreds were wounded and two were killed. Also, General Walker got away with humiliating Adlai Stevenson in Dallas in October, 1963. Also, General Walker got away with making Lee Harvey Oswald into the patsy of the Dallas plot against JFK in November, 1963.

We Americans honor our Generals -- and if he denied any wrong-doing in any of these cases, we are inclined to take him at his word. Harry Dean is, to the best of my knowledge, the only living eye-witness who challenges the testimony of General Walker to the Warren Commission. (By analogy, Bishop Duncan Gray of Mississippi is the only living eye-witness who challenges the testimony of General Walker to the Mississippi Grand Jury.)

It is the general consensus of this Forum that *one* of the conspiracy theories being circulated in America about the JFK assassination will be proved to be substantially true, while the others will be prove to be largely false.

According to you, Ernie, it should be impossible for any conspiracy theory to be true, because they are all based on closed-minded reasoning. Yet 20 years ago Robert MacNeil said on film: “We’ve seen revealed one conspiracy after another. Anybody would have to be a fool nowadays to dismiss conspiracies. Perhaps we lived in a fool’s paradise before the Kennedy assassination.”

Those are stronger words than I would have used, but Karl Popper's criterion are too abstract. What is needed is a logical method that is more concrete and realistic.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul: I suggest you go to my webpage where I posted my article "Nature and Purpose of Conspiracy Theories". You will notice that my first paragraph falsifies your assumption that I believe "it should be impossible for any conspiracy theory to be true because they are all based on closed-minded reasoning." So here, once again, we have an example of your false assumptions and conclusions about what I believe which seem to control your thought process. Making rational distinctions is how humans separate fact from fiction. Bad information or theories should not be believed or accepted just in order to prove that one has an open mind.

With respect to your comment that "very few writers in the JFK assassination research field mention General Walker" -- I am not sure I understand your meaning. I assume you meant that narrowly in the context that very few mention Walker in connection to a JBS "plot" to murder JFK? I'm not sure about that. When I did a quick Google Book Search, I saw a lot of such books. In fact, the first one that caught my eye was Harrison Livingstone's 2006 book, "The Radical Right and the Murder of JFK" and then I saw one which "revealed" another JFK "plot" which I never heard about before now -- i.e. an author who refers to Mae Brussel's contention that Carl McIntire's American Council of Christian Churches "helped plan the JFK assassination". There seems to be a bottomless pit of important "plot" actors.

Generally speaking, it is exceptionally rare for any conspiratorial plot to be revealed by one single source. In fact, as I am typing this, I am trying to think of an example from all of human history where the actors in a conspiracy were "revealed" by a single person -- but never corroborated by any other witnesses or participants.

You and I have spent a lot of time discussing FBI file classifications. When I step back and think about everything which you have written, my first instinct is to go back and look at all the FBI files I have obtained which contain reports by informants who reported on actual conspiratorial activities. In particular, I try to focus upon the ones where documents in their files are classified in all 3 security levels, i.e. confidential, secret, and top secret (such as Morris Childs). I know you think that the JFK matter is an exceptional case -- but I sincerely do not understand your reasoning -- because JFK's murder was a very public event whereas, by contrast, when you read the Morris Child file (and comparable files) the documents reveal very private and secret activities and conversations which nobody was aware of until many years later when Operation SOLO became public knowledge.

EXAMPLE: Morris Childs (and his brother Jack plus other informants inside the CPUSA) were reporting information to the FBI which (in many cases) only a handful of senior FBI employees knew about --- along with a relatively small number of government officials (at the State Dept, Defense Dept, and White House). Nevertheless, we have multiple sources to confirm the existence of the information they received and what was done with that information.

Morris Childs had at least two Chicago field FBI agents assigned to handle his reports and activities (Carl Freymen who headed the Communist Desk in Chicago and John Keating) and then, of course, his reports were reviewed by a supervisor in the Chicago field office plus the SAC of that office before they were sent to HQ.

At FBI HQ, the following people (at a minimum) saw everything that originated from Morris Childs:

1. F.J. Baumgardner -- Section Chief, Internal Security Section

2. Joseph Sizoo -- Inspector in Charge of Internal Security and Liaison Branch

3. Victor Keay -- Section Chief, Internal Security Section

4. William C. Sullivan -- Chief Inspector (the FBI's expert on the communist movement in the U.S. -- who later became Assistant Director)

5. Alan Belmont -- Assistant Director, Domestic Intelligence Division

6. Clyde Tolson -- Associate Director

7. J. Edgar Hoover -- Director

8. In addition, there were various people who performed annual inspections of the Chicago field office and FBI HQ Divisions and Sections (such as Security Division later known as Domestic Intelligence Division) and the Internal Security Section who may have seen references to Morris Childs and Operation SOLO

The reason I mention all this is because it gives you a sense of what would happen to important security-related information provided by any informant i.e. the various people who would have access to such information and be able to confirm that an informant was providing such information.

BUT --- if I understand YOUR position correctly, you are saying that when Harry Dean lived in southern California and was reporting information to the FBI about the Birch Society or Minutemen or whatever......

(1) there is NOBODY other than Wesley Grapp whom Harry reported to and

(2) you have found NOBODY inside the FBI --OR---independent of the FBI who can corroborate that Harry was providing such information

Is that your position?

Edited November 6, 2013 by Ernie Lazar

[Ernie Lazar]

Before I ever knew him I had a thick file on Harry Dean of documents that were released under the JFK Act. I haven't looked at it in years, but the US government records on Harry Dean are extensive, and detail his role with FPCC in Chicago, his trip(s) to Cuba and his cooperation with various domestic intelligence agencies, including the CIA and FBI, and the use of him as a informant and agent provocateur.

...Harry Dean personally knew Hall and Howard and others who became entwined in the Dealey Plaza operation, so he is a valuable informant, especially to those who are interested in these affairs.

Since I have known Harry, I have found him to be an opinionated, but valuable source on the activities of the FPCC, JBS and other groups who were active in the Sixties and became entwined in the assassination events...

Bill Kelly

Bill, I'm interested in your claim that "the US government records on Harry Dean are extensive." Not only does this seem to marginalize Ernie Lazar's claims about the relative ABSENCE of material on Harry Dean in FBI files, but it also intrigues me as somebody who is interested in known accounts about Loran Hall and Larry Howard.

Are there links I can follow to see some of your writing on this topic?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul --- My comments are focused upon the John Birch Society and its members -- not the larger issue of FPCC or other matters you have raised -- so please do not generalize about my "claims" about the "absence of material on Harry Dean".

Edited November 6, 2013 by Ernie Lazar

[Ernie Lazar]

I don't know if these docs are at Mary Ferrell or not, and have not revisited this in years, but I did locate a few redacted documents that I pulled out of Harry's file a few years ago to ask him about it - and got sidetracked.

In any case, here's one document from Harry's file that I pulled and wanted to ask him about.

Harry, did you write this letter or is it someone else who wrote it and your name is written in at the bottom for some other reason? And who redacted it? Thanks - BK

18109 xitina Dr.

La Xuente Calif.

Nov. 19, 1963

Director J. E. Hoover

F.B.I.

Washington D.C.

Dear Sir,

[REDACTED] 1960 [REDACTED] the Fair Play for Cuba Committee [REDACTED] information [REDACTED] local Chicago office of the Bureau. My present assignments [REDACTED] Los Angeles office [REDACTED] has this information.

[REDACTED] undercover [REDACTED] in Chicago [REDACTED] done in June 1961 because Eastland’s Committee was issuing subpoenas to hold hearing on the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and the 26th of July Movement ([REDACTED] moved [REDACTED] Los Angeles [REDACTED] at this time [REDACTED] I associate with places my position here in urgent danger as the Eastland reports [REDACTED] released [REDACTED] making the rounds of anti-Communist [REDACTED] groups limiting my effectiveness.

[REDACTED] name appears in that Senate Sub-Committee’s report no.96465 part 2 pages 84 and 85 as one of the Fair Play for Cuba [REDACTED] is being overlooked at this level [REDACTED] contacting you directly [REDACTED] of straightening out this problem, or one day I will, I am sure live to regret this fact.

[REDACTED] that you will see to this urgent matter, [REDACTED]

J.R.

[REDACTED]

Harry J. Dean

This is an EXCELLENT example of the type of information which COULD be obtained by an FOIA request -- if Harry would submit an affidavit authorizing release of his letter to Hoover AND all subsequent documents such as any internal Bureau memos discussing a reply to Harry plus the Hoover reply (if any) to Harry. There is no possibility of this type of material being withheld or being classified "TOP SECRET" or whatever other argument Paul Trejo wants to make.....So....why don't you request it Paul? *(Get Harry to sign a notarized affidavit).

IN FACT -- there is even a good possibility that the Bureau would release this document without an affidavit from Harry. It would be VERY helpful if Bill has this info -- if he could provide the file number and serial number or any other identifying information about the document so the search process at FBI could be expedited. Also, if Harry remembers any names of people he mentioned in his letter (perhaps Grapp??), if applicable, providing birth/death record info would prevent redaction of those names.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Ernie Lazar

[Ernie Lazar]

TO ALL HARRY DEAN ADMIRERS / SUPPORTERS:

I am attaching three items which seem to concisely summarize Harry Dean's relationship with the FBI:

1. The first is a June 16, 1965 FBI memo from Cartha DeLoach (Assistant Director, FBI Crime Records Division) which refers to an article about Dean's interview with a LaPuente CA newspaper. DeLoach's memo summarizes the FBI's contacts with Dean. [No doubt Paul Trejo will tell us that this LaPuente newspaper ALSO misunderstood Dean and reported inaccurate information about his assertions.]

2. The second item is a letter from J. Edgar Hoover to then-California U.S. Senator George Murphy in reply to Murphy's inquiry about Dean's relationship with the FBI. Please read the "NOTE" section on the Bureau file copy of the Hoover reply since it also concisely summarizes Dean's "relationship" with the Bureau.

3. The third item is a 1976 memo from the FBI Director to the SAC of the Dallas and Memphis field offices. See second paragraph of page 2 for another concise summary of Dean's relationship with the FBI.

06-16-65 DeLoach on Dean and 10-18-66 JEH to Murphy.PDF

05-10-76 JEH to SAC Memphis re Dean.PDF

[Paul Trejo]

...BUT --- if I understand YOUR position correctly, you are saying that when Harry Dean lived in southern California and was reporting information to the FBI about the Birch Society or Minutemen or whatever......

(1) there is NOBODY other than Wesley Grapp whom Harry reported to and

(2) you have found NOBODY inside the FBI --OR---independent of the FBI who can corroborate that Harry was providing such information

Is that your position?

Not quite, Ernie. My position is that the only anecdotes I had in my notes about Harry Dean's reporting to the FBI in Los Angeles were about Wesley Grapp. It is possible that there are other details about Harry's interaction with the FBI that I have not noted.

For example, the FBI document that I typed in a couple of days ago is clear FBI corroboration that Harry Dean was in contact with the FBI, and that this was clearly more than a crank telephone call.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 9, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Ernie Lazar]

Attached to this message is a copy of Harry Dean's June 1961 letter to President Kennedy. As even Harry admits, he called the FBI in Chicago and he offered them some information on FPCC but in June 1961, two Agents of the Chicago FBI office told him that they no longer wanted to receive any information from him because they discovered his background, i.e. "my past difficulty with the law" and "outstanding debts". Dean asks JFK if he could get some sort of "pardon" -- which, obviously, never occurred.

Do we really need to continue arguing about this??

Do you require MORE information?

06-28-61 Dean letter to JFK.PDF

[Paul Trejo]

Paul --- My comments are focused upon the John Birch Society and its members -- not the larger issue of FPCC or other matters you have raised -- so please do not generalize about my "claims" about the "absence of material on Harry Dean".

All right, Ernie, yet let's clarify some points. Your harsh words against Harry Dean in the past months have amounted to generalizations -- so I'll raise the bar if you raise the bar.

Let's be clear that Harry Dean never claimed that he spied on the JBS on behalf of the FBI. He never made that claim, and yet you spent a lot of time blaming Harry for making that claim.

You might want to publicly acknowledge that you misunderstood some things about Harry Dean, and that you might have been barking up the wrong tree.

Harry Dean told me -- and told John Simkin -- that he reported to the FBI regarding specific INDIVIDUALS and it just so happened that these INDIVIDUALS were members in the same John Birch Society gatherings as Harry Dean was at the time.

Immediately after the JFK assassination, Harry Dean put the pieces of his eye-witness experience together and drew a conclusion that these INDIVIDUALS in the John Birch Society had been aware of the activities of Lee Harvey Oswald for most of the year of 1963, and had been tracking Oswald in minute steps. The context of the John Birch Society was its extreme opinion that sitting US Presidents were Communist traitors. In the outreaches of their society stood INDIVIDUALS who were eager to act on that widespread belief.

When the Warren Commission failed to nail these individuals, but placed the entire blame on Lee Harvey Oswald, Harry Dean moved to raise public awareness about this; first on the Joe Pyne Show in 1965, and later with W.R. Morris, and also the Tomorrow Show with Tom Snyder, and more. (Part of Harry's conclusion involved his suspicions about the LDS in this conspiracy, but that is no longer Harry's position, as he told me.)

Harry never claimed that the FBI ever investigated the John Birch Society as a group. Harry never claimed that the FBI hired him to spy on the JBS. W.R. Morris tried to turn Harry's story into sensational fiction, and this garbled the field for decades. Yet if we focus on what Harry himself said -- he has never changed his eye-witness account of what he actually saw.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Ernie Lazar]

Incidentally, I was also able to discover a 1967 Los Angeles field memo on Dean which referred to "three agents" who had previously interviewed Dean:

1. Ferd J. Rapp Jr.

2. Richard L. Cromwell

3. William J. McCauley

Oddly, no mention of Grapp.

[Paul Trejo]

This is an EXCELLENT example of the type of information which COULD be obtained by an FOIA request -- if Harry would submit an affidavit authorizing release of his letter to Hoover AND all subsequent documents such as any internal Bureau memos discussing a reply to Harry plus the Hoover reply (if any) to Harry. There is no possibility of this type of material being withheld or being classified "TOP SECRET" or whatever other argument Paul Trejo wants to make.....So....why don't you request it Paul? *(Get Harry to sign a notarized affidavit).

IN FACT -- there is even a good possibility that the Bureau would release this document without an affidavit from Harry. It would be VERY helpful if Bill has this info -- if he could provide the file number and serial number or any other identifying information about the document so the search process at FBI could be expedited. Also, if Harry remembers any names of people he mentioned in his letter (perhaps Grapp??), if applicable, providing birth/death record info would prevent redaction of those names.

Ernie, we just saw the post by Paul B., asking Harry Dean to fill in the blanks for us. That is far more interesting and useful to the discussion at hand.

I'm very interested in Harry Dean's answer to Paul B.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Ernie Lazar]

Paul --- My comments are focused upon the John Birch Society and its members -- not the larger issue of FPCC or other matters you have raised -- so please do not generalize about my "claims" about the "absence of material on Harry Dean".

All right, Ernie, yet let's clarify some points. Your harsh words against Harry Dean in the past months have amounted to generalizations -- so I'll raise the bar if you raise the bar.

Let's be clear that Harry Dean never claimed that he spied on the JBS on behalf of the FBI. He never made that claim, and yet you spent a lot of time blaming Harry for making that claim.

You might want to publicly acknowledge that you misunderstood some things about Harry Dean, and that you might have been barking up the wrong tree.

Harry Dean told me -- and told John Simkin -- that he reported to the FBI regarding specific INDIVIDUALS and it just so happened that these INDIVIDUALS were members in the same John Birch Society gatherings as Harry Dean was at the time.

Immediately after the JFK assassination, Harry Dean put the pieces of his eye-witness experience together and drew a conclusion that these INDIVIDUALS in the John Birch Society had been aware of the activities of Lee Harvey Oswald for most of the year of 1963, and had been tracking Oswald in minute steps. The context of the John Birch Society was its extreme opinion that sitting US Presidents were Communist traitors. In the outreaches of their society stood INDIVIDUALS who were eager to act on that widespread belief.

When the Warren Commission failed to nail these individuals, but placed the entire blame on Lee Harvey Oswald, Harry Dean moved to raise public awareness about this; first on the Joe Pyne Show in 1965, and later with W.R. Morris, and also the Tomorrow Show with Tom Snyder, and more. (Part of Harry's conclusion involved his suspicions about the LDS in this conspiracy, but that is no longer Harry's position, as he told me.)

Harry never claimed that the FBI ever investigated the John Birch Society as a group. Harry never claimed that the FBI hired him to spy on the JBS. W.R. Morris tried to turn Harry's story into sensational fiction, and this garbled the field for decades. Yet if we focus on what Harry himself said -- he has never changed his eye-witness account of what he actually saw.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

1. No Paul, you are mistaken. I used John Simkin's description of Dean as having "infiltrated" the JBS and his answer to Simkin's question concerning the date when he started providing information to the FBI "about the John Birch Society" -- and Dean responded, "September 1963 as things heated up". I also relied upon Dean's amplification of his answer when he referred to himself reporting to the FBI "as requested" on "certain other" individuals and groups. I took that comment to mean, that IN ADDITION to reporting on the John Birch Society "as requested" by the FBI.

2. In addition, do you remember me making this comment to you?

Furthermore, your comment contradicts this explicit statement by Harry in his affadavit:

"I, Harry Dean, did operate in an undercover capacity for the Federal Bureau of Investigation within various subversive, and/or questionable organizations, and groups, during the years 1960 – 1965. Signed, Harry Dean Signature, Harry Dean"

So, again, Paul -- how does one "operate in an undercover capacity" WITHOUT being an infiltrator and informant?

3. Also there was this Harry Dean answer to a question where he described himself as "a spy"....

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4269&page=6

"Re; FBI they always denie associations with spys/informants for their protection and in my case because in 1965 I blabbed on TV, Radio and newspapers re; spying for the FBI in order to cut loose from that fearful existance of near five year involvement with them and the Cuba waste of life. My main task then was to openly expose the people that I knew, who hastened the death of President Kennedy."

So, Paul, why do you blame ME for making rather obvious conclusions from Harry's own comments?

[Ernie Lazar]

This is an EXCELLENT example of the type of information which COULD be obtained by an FOIA request -- if Harry would submit an affidavit authorizing release of his letter to Hoover AND all subsequent documents such as any internal Bureau memos discussing a reply to Harry plus the Hoover reply (if any) to Harry. There is no possibility of this type of material being withheld or being classified "TOP SECRET" or whatever other argument Paul Trejo wants to make.....So....why don't you request it Paul? *(Get Harry to sign a notarized affidavit).

IN FACT -- there is even a good possibility that the Bureau would release this document without an affidavit from Harry. It would be VERY helpful if Bill has this info -- if he could provide the file number and serial number or any other identifying information about the document so the search process at FBI could be expedited. Also, if Harry remembers any names of people he mentioned in his letter (perhaps Grapp??), if applicable, providing birth/death record info would prevent redaction of those names.

Ernie, we just saw the post by Paul B., asking Harry Dean to fill in the blanks for us. That is far more interesting and useful to the discussion at hand.

I'm very interested in Harry Dean's answer to Paul B.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Don't bother -- because you can surmise from the other documents which I posted recently (including a 1961 letter from Harry to JFK), what his 1963 letter was about

[Paul Trejo]

TO ALL HARRY DEAN ADMIRERS / SUPPORTERS:

I am attaching three items which seem to concisely summarize Harry Dean's relationship with the FBI:

1. The first is a June 16, 1965 FBI memo from Cartha DeLoach (Assistant Director, FBI Crime Records Division) which refers to an article about Dean's interview with a LaPuente CA newspaper. DeLoach's memo summarizes the FBI's contacts with Dean. [No doubt Paul Trejo will tell us that this LaPuente newspaper ALSO misunderstood Dean and reported inaccurate information about his assertions.]

2. The second item is a letter from J. Edgar Hoover to then-California U.S. Senator George Murphy in reply to Murphy's inquiry about Dean's relationship with the FBI. Please read the "NOTE" section on the Bureau file copy of the Hoover reply since it also concisely summarizes Dean's "relationship" with the Bureau.

3. The third item is a 1976 memo from the FBI Director to the SAC of the Dallas and Memphis field offices. See second paragraph of page 2 for another concise summary of Dean's relationship with the FBI.

Ernie, these papers from the FBI are very valuable information about Harry Dean's case and the lengths that even J. Edgar Hoover was willing to reach to obscure our perception about Harry Dean. Thanks for sharing this information with the public.

The letter by DeLoach begins as a straightforward report of factual information that accurately portrays Harry Dean's position. About half-way through the DeLoach memo, he reports denials by the Chicago FBI that Harry Dean was a source of information about the FPCC -- and they attempted to smear Harry Dean by claiming that "he was a former mental patient and had a criminal record."

Knowing Harry Dean personally I can only laugh at such nonsense. It is my understanding that the FBI in Chicago initiated this smear campaign against Harry Dean to protect sensitive data they held, and to distract the information seeker (Bill Capps) away from Harry Dean. According to this hear-say memo, the Chicago FBI simply told Harry Dean that they "did not desire his assistance." In other words, 'get lost.'

That's a horrible practice, yet I suspect that the FBI was not above that sort of smear.

As for the report about the Los Angeles FBI contacting Dean and warning him "not to claim any past relationship with this Bureau," it flatly contradicts the Memo from the Los Angeles FBI that I provided above. I didn't make up that memo, I have it in my hands -- it's from the FBI.

As for the FBI correcting Harry's usage of the term, "undercover agent," that sounds plausible, because to a professional FBI agent it would have an official meaning, while to a layperson it could easily mean something less official.

Regarding the part in that memo about KTTV, that probably refers to Harry's appearance on The Joe Pyne Show, which the FBI directly warned Harry Dean to drop.

Regarding the 1966 memo by J. Edgar Hoover himself, Ernie, I offer my kudos for digging that up. Yet let us make very clear that J. Edgar Hoover made similar blunt denials to the Warren Commission that Lee Harvey Oswald was ever an informant for the FBI (even though Dallas DA Henry Wade produced his FBI number in early 1964). Hoover promptly made all of Lee Harvey Oswald's FBI files into classified Top Security status, as they remain today. So, Hoover was not above lying himself -- that should be clear.

As for the third FBI memo you found, Ernie, it is merely an emotional reponse to the sensationalized fiction of W.R. Morris, and the pulp fiction treatment that Morris gave to Harry Dean's story. As for the second page you refer to, it is merely a direct copy of the smear campaign from the first memo that you provided in this series.

I should point out that it was commonplace in the early 1960's to try to dismiss political opponents as "mental patients," and even JFK and RFK attempted to do this with the resigned General Edwin Walker. That strategy backfired on them, simply because it was a cheap shot.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

[1. No Paul, you are mistaken. I used John Simkin's description of Dean as having "infiltrated" the JBS and his answer to Simkin's question concerning the date when he started providing information to the FBI "about the John Birch Society" -- and Dean responded, "September 1963 as things heated up". I also relied upon Dean's amplification of his answer when he referred to himself reporting to the FBI "as requested" on "certain other" individuals and groups. I took that comment to mean, that IN ADDITION to reporting on the John Birch Society "as requested" by the FBI.

2. In addition, do you remember me making this comment to you?

Furthermore, your comment contradicts this explicit statement by Harry in his affadavit:

"I, Harry Dean, did operate in an undercover capacity for the Federal Bureau of Investigation within various subversive, and/or questionable organizations, and groups, during the years 1960 – 1965. Signed, Harry Dean Signature, Harry Dean"

So, again, Paul -- how does one "operate in an undercover capacity" WITHOUT being an infiltrator and informant?

3. Also there was this Harry Dean answer to a question where he described himself as "a spy"....

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4269&page=6

"Re; FBI they always denie associations with spys/informants for their protection and in my case because in 1965 I blabbed on TV, Radio and newspapers re; spying for the FBI in order to cut loose from that fearful existance of near five year involvement with them and the Cuba waste of life. My main task then was to openly expose the people that I knew, who hastened the death of President Kennedy."

So, Paul, why do you blame ME for making rather obvious conclusions from Harry's own comments?

Because, Ernie, you're clearly prejudiced and relentless. Harry Dean is not a high-school graduate, and yet you continue to hold his feet to the fire regarding official language. It is easy for a layman to misunderstand the official implications of the reserved term, "undercover agent," because by the strict English definition, it has many meanings. Harry may not be educated, but English is his mother-tongue, and his testimony is useful.

Yet you continue to harp on the point. The fact that the FBI also harped on this point -- including J. Edgar Hoover himself, causes me to think, "thou dost protest too much!"

It is easier for me to believe that J. Edgar Hoover had something to hide (especially after locking up FBI files about Lee Harvey Oswald for 75 years) than that Harry Dean was trying to pull a fast one. The mammoth effort to smear Harry Dean which started 50 years ago is still running strong!

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 6, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Ernie, we just saw the post by Paul B., asking Harry Dean to fill in the blanks for us. That is far more interesting and useful to the discussion at hand.

I'm very interested in Harry Dean's answer to Paul B.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Don't bother -- because you can surmise from the other documents which I posted recently (including a 1961 letter from Harry to JFK), what his 1963 letter was about

You're contradicting yourself, Ernie. First you say you want Harry to produce an affidavit for FOIA request about his FBI records, and now you say you don't want to hear Harry's own words about his own memo which was HEAVILY REDACTED by the FBI?

Also, you want to draw conclusions based on a few FBI memos that smear Harry Dean? You're insincerity at finding the truth is obvious in this one-day switch.

Harry is here on this list. This is his thread. I, for one, would love to hear Harry Dean's response to Paul B.'s request to Harry to fill in the REDACTED blanks. That would be far more valuable than asking the FBI for further smears.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Ernie Lazar]

Attached to this message are miscellaneous FBI serials pertaining to Dean, including:

1. FBI memo which incluides a portion of Harry's 11-19-63 letter to Hoover (without redactions)

2. Harry's letter to the Director of the Joe Pyne Show, Channel 11, KTTV, Los Angeles

3. FBI memos indicating that Harry admitted falsely describing himself as an undercover agent for the FBI

4. Harry's rap sheet

Misc FBI serials on Dean.PDF