Questions for Dolva

[Stuart Wexler]

John,

I think the work you are doing is very interesting. I have some questions for you though:

1) What maps are you using to base your reconstruction upon? Almost every map has something wrong with it. I can refer you to people who have done extensive mapping who can give you more accurate maps.

2) What sources are you using for the dimensions on the limo?

3) What pictures are you using to place the men within the limo?

4) What assumptions are you making about strike points? I think the best analysis would be one that assumes multiple possible locations on the Z-film for strikes.

5) What are you using to locate the wounds? There is MUCH dispute about wound location. I would consider flexible wound locations, especially if you are checking the rear head wound, but also the back wound.

6) How are you determining a margin of error?

I ask these questions because, for whatever weight we place on them, several different groups have modelled the event and most have concluded that SBT trajectories are possible.

-Stu

[John Dolva]

John,

I think the work you are doing is very interesting.  I have some questions for you though:

1)  What maps are you using to base your reconstruction upon?  Almost every map has something wrong with it.  I can refer you to people who have done extensive mapping who can give you more accurate maps.

2)    What sources are you using for the dimensions on the limo?

3)    What pictures are you using to place the men within the limo?

4)    What assumptions are you making about strike points?  I think the best analysis would be one that assumes multiple possible locations on the Z-film for strikes.

5)    What are you using to locate the wounds?    There is MUCH dispute about wound location.  I would consider flexible wound locations, especially if you are checking the rear head wound, but also the back wound.

6)  How are you determining a margin of error?

I ask these questions because, for whatever weight we place on them, several different groups have modelled the event and most have concluded that SBT trajectories are possible.

-Stu

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi there Stuart, I find it very interesting too. I started looking at these issues a few months ago so I think I came into it with a fairly stock standard set of pre judices. My 'instincts' leading me to believe that a conspiracy is possible (but open minded to being a lonely nut) but the whole thing baffling as the number of shooters, locations and conspirators seem to multiply like spring frogs.

Bugger this, I thought, I'll shelve all preconceptions and see what I make of it myself.

My main intersts are sculpture so I spend a fair bit of time trying to think spacially, in three dimensions. I have done some physics and engineering at uni but that was along time ago.

But I do remember the importance of reliable foundations.

I fairly quickly realised that much of the info available is 'faulty'in some way. I don't mean that people necessarily have done anything wrong, but I couldn't seem to find the stuff they were originally working on to provide their results with. So it was all 'second hand'. Plus over the internet its hard to download detail and various formats and rotations etc introduce errors.

(I realise I'm not yet answering your questions, I'm just writing this as if it was to myself as a neophyte so that those who haven't gotten deeply into it can maybe get some hints)

I couldn't get any detailed maps and would love some, particularly if they have level detail from the 60's.

In the end I found that Don Robardeau's work the best. Unfortunately it covers only half of Dealey Plaza and little of the building measurements. Detatils showing all buildings (including basements, office locations etc etc etc would be great.

For the other half I found some maps but when comparing them to aerial photos realised that wrong assumptions of symmetry are easily made so I made my own from aerial photos.

The Limousine is another problem. Possibly more so because of some rule about withholding such info for security reasons. The downloaded copies of commission exhibits seem suspect (and hard to read) so again, Don. Where I can't find a dimension I compare and guesstimate.

I use a range of photos readily available on the internet. For example : the men in limo. an overhead sketch that I found somewhere and modified for my purposes. Skeleton parts from anatomy websites. Body samples from I think it was called the visible human project? web site. and photos of Kennedy and Connally in various poses plus a photo of a statue of Connally from his home town I think.

And photos from the motorcade.

I actually don't start out with strike point assumptions. I'm aware of some suggested ones but I try to look at the evidence available and go from there. (what I hope most to do, is to show various ways that I think can be used to work things out. Much of it develops as I go, so what I post here is 'up to the minute'.) As I tell my Kids, don't just take someones word for it. If you can check for yourself. That goes for my own work too.

For example , with the Connally wounds I assumed that the wound locations as shown by xrays, diagrams and descriptions to be largely reliable. I don't doubt that there would be some who would say otherwise, and possibly for very good reasons.

So therfore I said (say): "IF such and such and IF ...then when I do this this and this I get this. Cofirm, refine , or debunk please."

By not assuming anything, or as little as possible, I feel my mind is more receptive to interpreting the results. Then when I check with the 'common wisdom' sometimes it concurs, sometimes not.

So I agree, flexibility, open mind. I show how I did it and the results I get. Others may use same or different data and get same or different results.

Margin of error is an important thing. The result is dependent on the quality of the least precise input, so I try to compensate to the best of my ability. I can measure and rotate very precicely. Where say I am aware of an error margin I usually say so and try to qualify any conclusions.

Can you point me to an outline of a good explanation of how the location of Connally and Kennedy was such as to indicate that a single bullet (from theTSBD I presume?) was possible? And one that explains The Connally's statements that it was separate bullets? I'm not being provocative, I think they would be important things to cover.

I hope that covers it?

A careful reading of my topics/posts probably explains all that in greater detail

[David G. Healy]

John,

I think the work you are doing is very interesting.  I have some questions for you though:

1)  What maps are you using to base your reconstruction upon?  Almost every map has something wrong with it.  I can refer you to people who have done extensive mapping who can give you more accurate maps.

2)    What sources are you using for the dimensions on the limo?

3)    What pictures are you using to place the men within the limo?

4)    What assumptions are you making about strike points?  I think the best analysis would be one that assumes multiple possible locations on the Z-film for strikes.

5)    What are you using to locate the wounds?    There is MUCH dispute about wound location.  I would consider flexible wound locations, especially if you are checking the rear head wound, but also the back wound.

6)  How are you determining a margin of error?

I ask these questions because, for whatever weight we place on them, several different groups have modelled the event and most have concluded that SBT trajectories are possible.

-Stu

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Modelled" --- since a few years back everytime I hear that term regarding DP what immediately pops into my mind is Groden showing a dummy in the backseat of someones limo, on Elm Street, with a white pole sticking out of the dummy's back trying to line it up with the 6th floor window. He was working on a docu with foreign producers, I think -- actually I think JWhite was in the Plaza when the scens I just described took place. The package I saw made Groden's attempt look like a farce... evidently there was not enough time alotted (Elm Street was closed off?)! Then we come to latter day computer simulations, Myers the most popular. And those 'sims' prove nothing to me, nice 3d design work/pictures -- Proving the SBT? Nah!

Further that, Stu -- perhaps you have JoeDurnavitch's Povray conversion files [2003] of 1963 & current DP topo elevations. I've got the .pov file, none of the .inc files which will hold the topo conversion data, presumably from USGS. I'd like to confirm their work -- I need the conversion utility THEY used, too. Trying to confirm that work, is a bit tougher than it should be -- especially, since I'm quite familiar with the POV-Ray Raytracing program. Have been since DKBTrace, it's first edition from the early 90's

Any of the computer simulation that you know of use 1963 elevation data, if so; obtained from whom and when?

Thanks

David Healy

Edited August 13, 2005 by David G. Healy