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How effective was U.S. espionage in the 60's?


Jason Vermeer
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Upon his entry into the United States in 1983, Jesus Mendez, a former DGI agent indicated that back in the 1960's, cuban intelligence recognized that it had, at one point, 100 percent ratio of suspected U.S. agents doubled and placed back into the U.S. reporting on anti-castro activeties. In order to "double" an agent, you use whatever means necessary to engage that agent into actively working for your program rather than against it. When pressed on the issue, another former DGI placed a number at 38.

The multiple failures and hackneyed schemes of U.S. intelligence during this area are well documented as is the desperation of it's collusion with organized crime. Given the number of failures on Catro's life, the question arises.... Were the failures the result of our own ineptitude, or the successful manipulations of "doubled" agents acting on behalf of the DGI? In 1971, according to corrected HSCA executive testimony, Tanenbaum indicated that Antonio Veciana and Posada Carrilles(sp), engaged in a conspiracy to assassinate Castro in Chile and lay a false paper trail pointing to Russian agents...it failed at the last minute....again. Was Posada doubled? Veciana? It seems in light of Mendez's information, these are good questions to ask.

In one step closer to the Kennedy assassination, it has been suspected Oswald was an agent sent by U.S. intelligence to gather information in the Soviet Union. There is a certain amount of evidence to back this assertion up. Skeptics point to Oswalds erratic behavior in the Soviet Union and past information from the KGB indicated they believed Oswald too "unstable" to seriously consider as a threat....or for recruitment. Gerald Posner points to a documented event where Oswald attempted suicide and, being mentally ill, promptly shipped off to a hospital. Recently released KGB crypto's and code words; however, put this particular event in a different light. According to the information "Illness" or "injury" is KGB code for "being arrested or detained" and the word "hospital" is further described as KGB code for "detention" or "jail".

There is the possibility that at that point in time, Oswald was outed as an agent. The fact that he lived could mean he was "doubled". Dizzying speculation can occur beyond this point so I'll stop here but I will put forth the questions, how deeply were we infiltrated? How did our intelligence perceive it's own ability to enact countermeasures? If it's efficacy for doing so was low, could this be seen as another motive in the assassination of JFK? Jason Vermeer

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Upon his entry into the United States in 1983, Jesus Mendez, a former DGI agent indicated that back in the 1960's, cuban intelligence recognized that it had, at one point, 100 percent ratio of suspected U.S. agents doubled and placed back into the U.S. reporting on anti-castro activeties. In order to "double" an agent, you use whatever means necessary to engage that agent into actively working for your program rather than against it. When pressed on the issue, another former DGI placed a number at 38.

The multiple failures and hackneyed schemes of U.S. intelligence during this area are well documented as is the desperation of it's collusion with organized crime. Given the number of failures on Catro's life, the question arises.... Were  the failures the result of our own ineptitude, or the successful manipulations of "doubled" agents acting on behalf of the DGI? In 1971, according to corrected HSCA executive testimony, Tanenbaum indicated that Antonio Veciana and Posada  Carrilles(sp), engaged in a conspiracy to assassinate Castro in Chile and lay a false paper trail pointing to Russian agents...it failed at the last minute....again. Was Posada doubled? Veciana? It seems in light of Mendez's information, these are good questions to ask.

In one step closer to the Kennedy assassination, it has been suspected Oswald was an agent sent by U.S. intelligence to gather information in the Soviet Union. There is a certain amount of evidence to back this assertion up. Skeptics point to Oswalds erratic behavior in the Soviet Union and past information from the KGB indicated they believed Oswald too "unstable" to seriously consider as a threat....or for recruitment. Gerald Posner points to a documented event where Oswald attempted suicide and, being mentally ill, promptly shipped off to a hospital. Recently released KGB crypto's and code words; however, put this particular event in a different light. According to the information "Illness" or "injury" is KGB code for "being arrested or detained" and the word "hospital" is further described as KGB code for "detention" or "jail".

There is the possibility that at that point in time, Oswald was outed as an agent. The fact that he lived could mean he was "doubled". Dizzying speculation can occur beyond this point so I'll stop here but I will put forth the questions, how deeply were we infiltrated? How did our intelligence perceive it's own ability to enact countermeasures? If it's efficacy for doing so was low, could this be seen as another motive in the assassination of JFK? Jason Vermeer

Jason, it will be very interesting to see what evidence comes forth, and of course where it comes from, to support this. No doubt there were turned agents working on both sides. The whole espionage game is as Angleton pointed out 'a room full of mirrors'. Naturally though, one factor that must be kept in mind (I'm not sayin it IS the reason for this information, but that it MAY be) is the fact that as the conspiracy trail unfolds there seems (as one might expect) to always be a concurrent relevant thread of counter claims developing. In this case a response by the intelligence community that they may have something to do with it is to seed doubt in the sense that 'yes maybe, but it was those elements that had been turned'. Rather disingenious of course as the consequences of accepting that are quite devastating in general, but in the conspiracy field serves to further fragment.

An example that I, through my research, am familiar with, is : if one studies the senate report on the CIA mail opening operations one finds documents dealing with potential disclosures where directives clearly point to the procedures to adopt in order to permit the continuation of such illegal activities. They include seeding of false information, reports etc to say 'there is no such operation', they then recommend 'laying low' and resuming when attention is elsewhere. To some extent as this after all is a industry of professionals they will always be a step ahead. However, truth has the characteristic of eventually percolating to the top, thus in time reason can often sort lies from truth. Because of the nature of lies, there are usually gaps that careful attention to detail will reveal

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Upon his entry into the United States in 1983, Jesus Mendez, a former DGI agent indicated that back in the 1960's, cuban intelligence recognized that it had, at one point, 100 percent ratio of suspected U.S. agents doubled and placed back into the U.S. reporting on anti-castro activeties. In order to "double" an agent, you use whatever means necessary to engage that agent into actively working for your program rather than against it. When pressed on the issue, another former DGI placed a number at 38.

The multiple failures and hackneyed schemes of U.S. intelligence during this area are well documented as is the desperation of it's collusion with organized crime. Given the number of failures on Catro's life, the question arises.... Were  the failures the result of our own ineptitude, or the successful manipulations of "doubled" agents acting on behalf of the DGI? In 1971, according to corrected HSCA executive testimony, Tanenbaum indicated that Antonio Veciana and Posada  Carrilles(sp), engaged in a conspiracy to assassinate Castro in Chile and lay a false paper trail pointing to Russian agents...it failed at the last minute....again. Was Posada doubled? Veciana? It seems in light of Mendez's information, these are good questions to ask.

In one step closer to the Kennedy assassination, it has been suspected Oswald was an agent sent by U.S. intelligence to gather information in the Soviet Union. There is a certain amount of evidence to back this assertion up. Skeptics point to Oswalds erratic behavior in the Soviet Union and past information from the KGB indicated they believed Oswald too "unstable" to seriously consider as a threat....or for recruitment. Gerald Posner points to a documented event where Oswald attempted suicide and, being mentally ill, promptly shipped off to a hospital. Recently released KGB crypto's and code words; however, put this particular event in a different light. According to the information "Illness" or "injury" is KGB code for "being arrested or detained" and the word "hospital" is further described as KGB code for "detention" or "jail".

There is the possibility that at that point in time, Oswald was outed as an agent. The fact that he lived could mean he was "doubled". Dizzying speculation can occur beyond this point so I'll stop here but I will put forth the questions, how deeply were we infiltrated? How did our intelligence perceive it's own ability to enact countermeasures? If it's efficacy for doing so was low, could this be seen as another motive in the assassination of JFK? Jason Vermeer

Hi, Jason

How did you come onto the info. on former DGI agent{s} and will you

be so kind as to lay it out here. Thanks much.

Harry

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Sure Harry,

The source is Thomas B. Allen, from his book, (hold onto your seat lol),

"Spy Book: The Encyclopedia of Espionage"

Some of the information on the DGI agents came from the Cuba section. I can get you page numbers at your request.

Jason Vermeer

Hi, Jason

Yes, re; page #s, will very much appreciate that info.

Thanks.

Harry

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Jason,

There is the possibility that at that point in time, Oswald was outed as an agent.

I read once that Oswald was in the "hospital" for something like three weeks. Far to long for a simple botched suicide attempt. I got to wondering the other day if during that stay, Oswald was subjected to some of the same kind of treatment as Yuri Nosenko, and whether he could have stood up to it.

Steve Thomas

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Jason,

There is the possibility that at that point in time, Oswald was outed as an agent.

I read once that Oswald was in the "hospital" for something like three weeks. Far to long for a simple botched suicide attempt. I got to wondering the other day if during that stay, Oswald was subjected to some of the same kind of treatment as Yuri Nosenko, and whether he could have stood up to it.

Steve Thomas

Though I've been speculating in this thread for too long, there may be some merit to examining the existing soviet documents again, paying particular attention to the possibility of coded words...then again, these words are translated from Russian to English. Harry, I will get you the page numbers. Steve, I too felt the 3 week plus stay was more than required for psychiatric stabilization. I think the Russian version of "managed care" developed a while before ours. Jason Vermeer

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Sure Harry,

The source is Thomas B. Allen, from his book, (hold onto your seat lol),

"Spy Book: The Encyclopedia of Espionage"

Some of the information on the DGI agents came from the Cuba section. I can get you page numbers at your request.

Jason Vermeer

Hi, Jason

Yes, re; page #s, will very much appreciate that info.

Thanks.

Harry, the page number is 165 I believe the bottom paragraph then ascending to the top side.

Harry

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