The Yin and Yang of the Kennedy assassination.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

We can't even get that right, and you think I have an agenda simply because I slam Garrison for keeping his intent hidden? Hardly. I think I have better things to do than to have an agenda that is connected to Jim Garrison. As far as I am concerned, Jim Garrison was an irrelevant con artist.

.

You all sound like the axis of no access, you know, Hoover and Garrison.

Yes, what ever agenda can they mean. GARRISON, GARRISON, GARRISON......................................

[Lynne Foster]

Don't blame me for citing history:

In response to the question of how he came to obtain David Ferrie's phone records of January to October of

1963, Garrison stated that he asked for and received them from Marcello's attorney G. Wray Gill.

With associates like Marcello and Hoover, Jim Garrison was a white collar, Jack Ruby. Jack Ruby silenced Lee Harvey Oswald and Jim Garrison silenced David Ferrie.

Garrison was certainly was not an investigator, because, according to sharp investigators like Jay Epstein:

"During the time I studied Garrison's investigation and had access to his office, the only evidence I saw or heard about that could connect Clay Shaw with the assassiantion was fraudulent -some devised by Garrison himself and some cynically culled from criminals or the emotionally unstable."

The last known person to speak to Ferrie was George Lardner, Jr., of the Washington Post, whom Ferrie had met with from midnight to 4:00 a.m. on February 22, 1967. During this interview, Ferrie described Garrison as "a joke". Several hours later, Ferrie died of a cerebral hemorrhage. [but he was probably murdered because "the joke" needed a corpse like Lee Harvey Oswald, to get away with promoting his bizarre allegations.]

This exposed Garrison better than anything could:

PLAYBOY: Why did you become interested in Ferrie and his associates in November 1963?

GARRISON: To explain that, I'll have to tell you something about the operation of our office. I believe we have one of the best district attorney's offices in the country. We have no political appointments and, as a result, there's a tremendous amount of esprit among our staff and an enthusiasm for looking into unanswered questions. That's why we got together the day after the assassination and began examining our files and checking out every political extremist, religious fanatic and kook who had ever come to our attention. And one of the names that sprang into prominence was that of David Ferrie. When we checked him out, as we were doing with innumerable other suspicious characters, we discovered that on November 22nd he had traveled to Texas to go "duck hunting" and "ice skating."

Well, naturally, this sparked our interest. We staked out his house and we questioned his friends, and when he came back --- the first thing he did on his return, incidentally, was to contact a lawyer and then hide out for the night at a friend's room in another town --- we pulled him and his two companions in for questioning. The story of Ferrie's activities that emerged was rather curious. He drove nine hours through a furious thunderstorm to Texas, then apparently gave up his plans to go duck hunting and instead went to an ice-skating rink in Houston and stood waiting beside a pay telephone for two hours; he never put the skates on. We felt his movements were suspicious enough to justify his arrest and that of his friends, and we took them into custody. When we alerted the FBI, they expressed interest and asked us to turn the three men over to them for questioning. We did, but Ferrie was released soon afterward and most of its report on him was classified top secret and secreted in the National Archives, where it will remain inaccessible to the public until September 2038 A.D. No one, including me, can see those pages.

As you can see, Garrison and Hoover belonged to the Axis of no access.

Garrison was in fact, the BIG OPERATIONAL Yin, Hoover and Nixon were the managerial Yin.

No yang there.

Edited November 25, 2005 by Lynne Foster

[Owen Parsons]

Garrison's actions in 1963 make perfect sense. He didn't know then what we know about the FBI now, and trusted them to pursue the Ferrie lead, as he assumed leaving no stone unturned in Kennedy's assassination was in their interest. Besides, if Garrison were really working for Hoover (this is pure BS, as I have shown with FBI documents time and time again), he wouldn't even have bothered to take Ferrie into custody in the first place.

And duh, where do you think Garrison would get his hands on the calls Ferrie made from Gill's office except from Gill?

Also, your hero "Oswald-Did-It-for-the-KGB" Epstein is wrong about Ferrie dropping dead "several hours" after Lardner left. Lardner left at 4 a.m. 4 a.m. is the last possible time Ferrie could have been alive, according to the autopsy report.

Edited November 24, 2005 by Owen Parsons

[Guest Stephen Turner]

HISTORY,HAH, You wouldnt recognise history if it bit you on the backside, doffed its cap, and introduced itself as history. You have spent over 250 posts erecting this strawman arguement, and you are no closer to realising your goal than when you first began. How about a few facts Lynne? never mind "I think" "I believe" "Its so obvious" "Your all disinformation agents" or other assorted non-sence, give us the meat girl, if you have it, I really dont give a monkeys what you, or your mentor believe until you come up with a few hard, uncontestable facts in this matter, your whistling dixie in a force five. I have no great respect for Mr Garrison, he ran a slipshod investigation, and was a monumental egotist, but its a whole nother world to proving he was part of the cover up. BTW, I think you are right about one thing, JFK was assassinated over his stance on the withdrawl of the advisors from Vietnam, to much money to made, by to many powerful people, & institutions. See my thread "JFK and vested interest" Steve.

[Lynne Foster]

Owen, garrison exposed himself when he said:

"most of its report on him was classified top secret and secreted in the National Archives, where it will remain inaccessible to the public until September 2038 A.D. No one, including me, can see those pages."

The fact that Garrison was coffortable with this "AXIS of NO ACCESS" proves that he did not care about exposing the truth.

If Garrison cared, he would have objected to the fact that Ferrie was effectively muzzled.

I think you blow a great deal of hot air, but there is NO SUBSTANCE in ANYTHING you ever say-just like your hero Garrison.

I know, I know, you are flattered to be compared to Garrison, well, you have earned it.

[Owen Parsons]

Who said he was comfortable with it? If you had any reading comprehension whatsoever, you would see that that is clearly a wry dig at the actions of the government in regard to the assassination. The sealing of the files was always one of his major talking points.

There is never any substance to anything you say because all your opinions are drawn from the various tripod/geocities/angelfire sites of some character named "Mat Wilson."

Edited November 24, 2005 by Owen Parsons

[Lynne Foster]

read it again:

We felt his movements were suspicious enough to justify his arrest and that of his friends, and we took them into custody. When we alerted the FBI, they expressed interest and asked us to turn the three men over to them for questioning. We did, but Ferrie was released soon afterward and most of its report on him was classified top secret and secreted in the National Archives, where it will remain inaccessible to the public until September 2038 A.D. No one, including me, can see those pages.

Ferrie was safe, as long as he didn't talk, and there is no evidence to suggest that Garrison was upset over the fact tha the truth "will remain inaccessible to the public until September 2038 A.D."

I don't think you know Garrison very well, if you think that he was shy about voicing his objections.

He didn't as the above quotes make it absolutely clear.

You are an interesting propagandist, the way you attack anybody like Jay Epstein, simply because he was fed the wrong information, because the authorities feared his intelligence, after publishing Inquest.

Clearly, I suggest that Epstein is a genius, compared to you, and if he got everything wrong about Oswald when he was fed the wrong intelligence, you can't blame him unless he deliberately mislead.

Do you have any evidence which suggests that Epstein deliberately mislead anybody?

Edited November 24, 2005 by Lynne Foster

[Owen Parsons]

Just look at any of Garrison other comments about the files. Read Garrison's introduction to Harold Weisberg's Oswald in New Orleans. He was not shy about voicing his objections on this subject. The word I used was "wry." Look it up.

[Lynne Foster]

I don't have to, it rhymes with dry wit.

You always attack the best and the brightest and always defend treacherous villains. That explains everything.

[Lynne Foster]

Owen, are you really Jonah Goldberg? Somebody, and unfortunately, like Bob Woodward, I cannot disclose my source, claims that you are Jonah Goldberg.

Now I don't know anything about this person, but if anybody has any further information regarding this strange allegation, please dispute or verify.

Is Jonah Goldberg a high school student? Is Jonah a yin or a yang?

[Owen Parsons]

You know you've really "made it" once anonymous sources start putting forward false information about you. If, when you speak of Jonah Goldberg, you mean the National Review commentator, then I would answer that 1) I am not him 2) Jonah Goldberg ain't a high school student and 3) I would probably classify him as a Yin.

[Terry Mauro]

I am not hysterical Dawn.

I don't know why you are attacking me, but I'll make my agenda very clear, once and for all.

I think this world is hysterical. The Bush regime has convinced 42% of the American people that Sadaam Hussein was directly responsible for 911. We can't even get that right, and you think I have an agenda simply because I slam Garrison for keeping his intent hidden? Hardly. I think I have better things to do than to have an agenda that is connected to Jim Garrison. As far as I am concerned, Jim Garrison was an irrelevant con artist.

Why do I think this world is hysterical. Well, contrast President Reagan who was reveered and feared, to president Bush who is loathed and feared, because the US has abandoned the "us versus them" coalition and has adopted the philosophy that they can go it alone. Big difference.

I think the world's capacity to promote deception has never been greater, and that is what I call hysterical.

I have absolutely no agenda beyond sorting out the truth from the lies, and unfortunately, in a hysterical world, there are more lies than truth.

If you get the impression that I am anti-Bush, you are wrong. Bush is controlled by Chenie and Rummie, former Nixon allies, and that is perhaps the real problem here.

I think, in the near future, we are all going to look back to the Clinton, the Reagan and even the Bush SR. years with great nostalgia. Now that's what you call MASS HYSTERIA.

And I certainly hope my assessment here is wrong, because I am pro- North American, Canada and the US take each other for granted, and I think we are both weaker as a consequence.

Do you see any agenda there, because if I have one, I would like to know what it is?

My advice to Bush: he has to find a way to be reveered as well as feared, but I fear that it's not in his character to be able to pull that off, beyond his close fans that will love hime no matter what. So unfortunately, not having a clue to what the answer is, I really do not think that you can say i have an agenda -but feel free to define it for me -I'd like to know what my agenda is myself.

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"I am not hysterical Dawn.

I don't know why you are attacking me, but I'll make my agenda very clear, once and for all."

Because you're a pompous ass, and an idiot, that's why, Linda Byrd Foster Dulles.

[Lynne Foster]

Well, if Owen is Jonah, you sound like Lucianne -I did a search on that one:

But it is significant that the person who forwarded Linda Tripp's tapes of Lewinsky to the FBI is a book agent and pseudo-journalist called Lucianne Goldberg, who in 1972 "told the McGovern campaign that she worked for the North American Newspaper Alliance." Goldberg's role was not simply that of a cut-out or messenger for Linda Tripp. On Jan. 22 she told the press "that she encouraged her friend Linda Tripp . . . to tape conversations with intern Monica Lewinsky." (All quotations are from an article in the January 23 1998, San Francisco Chronicle, p. A11.) She kept the tapes for Tripp and later turned them over to the FBI. If Tripp instigated Lewinsky, it would appear that Goldberg instigated Tripp.

Both Tripp and Goldberg are apparently Republicans. Tripp was one of only two holdovers from the Bush White House. Goldberg was exposed in 1973 as "a spy for Nixon while she traveled with the press corps" covering McGovern's 1972 campaign. It was at this time that she said she worked for NANA (North American Newspaper Alliance), and supplied an address for NANA which "is the same as her current residence" in Manhattan. Watergate investigators "said the Nixon campaign paid her $1,000 a week."

Not mentioned in the Chronicle story is the relevant fact in 1972, as today, Lucianne Goldberg was snooping for sex. She told the late Anthony Lukas (Nightmare, p. 161) that the Nixon people "were looking for really dirty stuff . . . who was sleeping with whom, what the Secret Service men were doing with the stewardesses, who was smoking pot on the plane -- that sort of thing." Her predecessor on this assignment was Seymour Freidin, who at the time was credibly accused by Jack Anderson of being a former CIA agent. (By the 1970s NANA was co-owned by Fortune Pope, whose brother Generoso was another self-confessed former CIA agent.)

Sixteen years later Lucianne Goldberg was involved in another sex and politics controversy, as book agent for an expose of Senator Kennedy's behavior at Chappaquidick. The book, by Leo Damore, was originally contracted for by Random House, which later backed out on the grounds that Damore failed to provide direct evidence for his accusations. Damore's book was eventually released by the right-wing publisher Henry Regnery.

Serious students of the JFK Assassination have long been interested in NANA, which supplied Priscilla Johnson (better known now as Priscilla McMillan) with the job (or, to some, cover) by which she worked in Moscow, and there interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald on the urging of U.S. Consul Snyder. After the assassination, Johnson developed a close relationship with Marina Oswald, in connection with a book contract originally arranged by C.D. Jackson of Life Magazine at the urging of Allen Dulles. In this connection, Johnson helped identify a much-disputed bus ticket stub, belatedly discovered by the two women in August 1964, which helped to place Oswald on a specific Mexican bus. (Earlier a now-discredited bus manifest had placed an "Oswld" on a different bus.) Priscilla Johnson's intelligence connections emerged more clearly after the CIA-assisted defection of Stalin's daughter Svetlana Allilueva to the United States. Svetlana stayed at first with Priscilla Johnson's family on Long Island, and Priscilla translated Svetlana's memoir.

________________________________

Last paragraph is interesting, it is even relevant to the plot to create the impression tht Patsy Oswald was

not a Patsy.

[Owen Parsons]

Oh yeah, you're a treasure all right.

[Terry Mauro]

Well, if Owen is Jonah, you sound like Lucianne -I did a search on that one:

But it is significant that the person who forwarded Linda Tripp's tapes of Lewinsky to the FBI is a book agent and pseudo-journalist called Lucianne Goldberg, who in 1972 "told the McGovern campaign that she worked for the North American Newspaper Alliance." Goldberg's role was not simply that of a cut-out or messenger for Linda Tripp. On Jan. 22 she told the press "that she encouraged her friend Linda Tripp . . . to tape conversations with intern Monica Lewinsky." (All quotations are from an article in the January 23 1998, San Francisco Chronicle, p. A11.) She kept the tapes for Tripp and later turned them over to the FBI. If Tripp instigated Lewinsky, it would appear that Goldberg instigated Tripp.

Both Tripp and Goldberg are apparently Republicans. Tripp was one of only two holdovers from the Bush White House. Goldberg was exposed in 1973 as "a spy for Nixon while she traveled with the press corps" covering McGovern's 1972 campaign. It was at this time that she said she worked for NANA (North American Newspaper Alliance), and supplied an address for NANA which "is the same as her current residence" in Manhattan. Watergate investigators "said the Nixon campaign paid her $1,000 a week."

Not mentioned in the Chronicle story is the relevant fact in 1972, as today, Lucianne Goldberg was snooping for sex. She told the late Anthony Lukas (Nightmare, p. 161) that the Nixon people "were looking for really dirty stuff . . . who was sleeping with whom, what the Secret Service men were doing with the stewardesses, who was smoking pot on the plane -- that sort of thing." Her predecessor on this assignment was Seymour Freidin, who at the time was credibly accused by Jack Anderson of being a former CIA agent. (By the 1970s NANA was co-owned by Fortune Pope, whose brother Generoso was another self-confessed former CIA agent.)

Sixteen years later Lucianne Goldberg was involved in another sex and politics controversy, as book agent for an expose of Senator Kennedy's behavior at Chappaquidick. The book, by Leo Damore, was originally contracted for by Random House, which later backed out on the grounds that Damore failed to provide direct evidence for his accusations. Damore's book was eventually released by the right-wing publisher Henry Regnery.

Serious students of the JFK Assassination have long been interested in NANA, which supplied Priscilla Johnson (better known now as Priscilla McMillan) with the job (or, to some, cover) by which she worked in Moscow, and there interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald on the urging of U.S. Consul Snyder. After the assassination, Johnson developed a close relationship with Marina Oswald, in connection with a book contract originally arranged by C.D. Jackson of Life Magazine at the urging of Allen Dulles. In this connection, Johnson helped identify a much-disputed bus ticket stub, belatedly discovered by the two women in August 1964, which helped to place Oswald on a specific Mexican bus. (Earlier a now-discredited bus manifest had placed an "Oswld" on a different bus.) Priscilla Johnson's intelligence connections emerged more clearly after the CIA-assisted defection of Stalin's daughter Svetlana Allilueva to the United States. Svetlana stayed at first with Priscilla Johnson's family on Long Island, and Priscilla translated Svetlana's memoir.

________________________________

Last paragraph is interesting, it is even relevant to the plot to create the impression tht Patsy Oswald was

not a Patsy.

**********************************************************************

And, your point is?