FBI, the mob, and 9/11

[Peter McKenna]

Posted mainly for jolly, but I would like to get into just what Scientology beef with Mental health is really all about.

The genus of any antithesis is always in the genus. That is how we recognise it.

For this reason I for one would be most unhappy if any of my loved ones fell into the hands of either a scientologist or a psychiatrist

A member of my family suffers from severe bipolar disorder and is under the treatment of a psychiatrist for same. My understanding of the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist is that a psychiatrist is basically a psychologist with an MD. I would much prefer an AMA licensed psychiatrist for the treatment of bipolar disorder than a scientologist, who are not licensed or certified by any governmental agency. My understanding of the beef scientology has with psychiatry is that they do not believe that such associated mental disorders as bipolar disorder require treatment with medication. My information has been garnered primarily from the media but scientology's position is hardly a kept secret.

By the way, I could hardly recognize you from your new photo. Must be the lack of formal attire. I was considering a new professional head shot, but now I'll just wait for my renewed driver's license photo.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Peter McKenna

[Guest]

Posted mainly for jolly, but I would like to get into just what Scientology beef with Mental health is really all about.

The genus of any antithesis is always in the genus. That is how we recognise it.

For this reason I for one would be most unhappy if any of my loved ones fell into the hands of either a scientologist or a psychiatrist

A member of my family suffers from severe bipolar disorder and is under the treatment of a psychiatrist for same. My understanding of the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist is that a psychiatrist is basically a psychologist with an MD. I would much prefer an AMA licensed psychiatrist for the treatment of bipolar disorder than a scientologist, who are not licensed or certified by any governmental agency. My understanding of the beef scientology has with psychiatry is that they do not believe that such associated mental disorders as bipolar disorder require treatment with medication. My information has been garnered primarily from the media but scientology's position is hardly a kept secret.

You are quite right. A serious mental health problem needs the attention of a qualified and regulated professional. However much has been done in the name of psychiatry which has been harmful, reductionist (pill cures complex emotional problem) and ill informed. It is this that Scientology recognises from within itself.

Re my avatar - I am now 15 years older than the original one and thought I'd share the improvement with others

[Len Colby]

I have previously pointed out several crashes in which the plane was entirely or almost entirely obliterated into small fragments. I discovered one more. This also MAY have been the 1st time an American plane was taken by force and the first instance anywhere of a suicide ‘hijacker’.

The Crash of Pacific Air Lines Flight #773

(Near San Ramon, Calif.) May 7, 1964

A Different Time...

The year was 1964. It was a time when getting aboard a commercial airliner was much easier than today. You paid your money, walked through a gate (then often across the tarmac) and boarded the plane. No X-rays, no security check points, no guards. The wave of hijackings to Cuba was still to come, only to be followed by terrorists hijackings and even worse beyond that.

It was a time when we all thought nobody was crazy enough to take a gun aboard a airliner and threaten to kill people, let alone actually shoot someone. Well on Pacific Air Lines Flight 773, that's exactly what happened.

According to newspaper accounts of the time, Francisco Gonzales would constantly threaten people, especially members of his family. He said that they would die alongside him, by his hand.

But what brought about his problems? Gonzales, 27, had been a member of the Philippine yachting team at the 1960 Olympics. However, by 1964 he was having trouble with his wife and also had accumulated a fair amount of debt...on the evening of the May 6th, Gonzales purchased a Smith and Wesson .357 magnum from an acquaintance.

[...]

Gonzales went to the airport, and boarded the plane which was headed first for a stop in Stockton, then on to San Francisco. According to witnesses who got off the plane in Stockton, Gonzales was seated right behind the cockpit door...about the time the Fairchild F-27A (N2770R) with 43 other souls aboard, started to descend for its landing, Gonzales pulled out his gun and kicked his way into the cockpit. Once in there, he raised the gun and put a bullet into the back of the pilot's head. Ernest Clark, 52, was dead. At 6:48 the aircraft radioed its last message. First officer Raymond Andress was heard saying, "Skipper's shot. We've been shot. Trying to help." There were more shots as Gonzales turned to the co-pilot and shot him.

The twin-engine plane went into a steep, uncontrolled, high speed descent to crash into a hill and explode near San Ramon early in the morning of May 7, 1964. All 44, 41 passengers and 3 crew members, were dead on impact.

There was a large crater with debris spread over a very large area. In the wreckage, along with personal belongings, a bible and papers, investigators found the .357. All six shots had been fired.

The Crash Site Today

According the Civil Aeronautics Board report, the aircraft struck the up-slope of a 25. 2 degree hill at a relative angle of 90.2 degrees.

The wreckage was

confined to the east slope of the 800 foot hill and

strewn 1,050 feet up the slope along a 800 foot width

from the main crater. The cockpit area was so completely destroyed by impact that only four small pieces of the instrument panel were retrieved.

No single portion of more than eight square inches was recovered.

http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/PAL_F..._crash_site.htm

It should be noted that the plane probably impacted the ground with less velocity than any of the 9/11 crashes and was far less massive. The 27A had a max cruising speed of 294 mph [473km/h (255kt)] and a max takeoff weight 20,639kg (45,500lb) [10,398kg (22,923lb) empty] and thus would have had far less energy to fragment the plane

http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=217

[Jack White]

In

Rumsfeld speaks of the "plane shot down over Pennsylvania - although he's not necessarily a trustworthy source

One wonders, indeed, whether Rumsfeld could lie straight in his coffin?

Flight 93 seems to have been - like the Pentagon hit that same day - a case no apparent corpses - yet subsequent DNA analysis enabled almost perfect confirmation of the respective flight lists.

Oh, the wonders of modern science!

This page on the physics911.ca site is well worth a look - as is the rest of that fine website

Sid,

I'm sure Bill can tell you about a lady named T Carter. She was an air hostess on the route of the plane that hit the pentagon. Obviously she was not in work that day. many of her friends died in the crash. She was allowed into the crash area following the incident. She had to identify the arm of her best friend, which still had a friendship bracelet that T had given her on it.

Most of the people that believe that a plane did not hit the pentagon dismiss T's story without investigating it or verifying it for themselves. She spoke at the 2002 COPA conference about it.

A lot of people proclaiming to be 'researchers' into 9/11 simply state that they don't believe her. Research is not a case of what you believe, it is what you can prove.

I thought that this story might interest you Sid,

All the best,

John

T Carter likely is NOT lying. But it IS LIKELY that she was used.

Think it over.

Jack

[Evan Burton]

Let me now pose a question: has Mr Lear done a FOIA request regarding the engine serial numbers?

The silence to this very simple question is telling. Has any truther done a FOIA request for the serial numbers?

[Kathleen Collins]

A website called http://wikileaks.org is now posting the frantic cell phone calls from 9/11 as the World Trade Center began its demise. I don't know how long they will be on the Internet.

Kathy C

[Evan Burton]

Thanks Kathy.

I have saved a copy of all the pages in case it has any problems. Happy to forward them on to anyone who wants them.

[Len Colby]

It was actually text messages that were leaked.I think this was wrong as it is a violation of the privacy of terrified people some communicating for the last time with loved ones.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y...sl=da&tl=en

[Evan Burton]

If it wasn't already apparent to people, yet another example of the paranoid and dangerous behaviour of that laughable group of misfits called PFffffffT.

The exhaulted leader, Rob Balsamo, admits to impersonating people.

Turbo I appreciate your willingness to stand up to Rob's obviously false claims and incorrect conclusions. It's unfortunate that he chooses to act this way when someone disagrees with him. I had hoped he would listen to one of his own but apparently it doesn't matter who you are, you're not allowed to disagree with Rob. That's troubling behavior from the leader of an organization who claims he's trying to find "truth".

What kind of forum is he running over there if he can't accept constructive criticism from one that site's most active members?

Ok.. lets get this done now...

I was notified that if I do not delete posts made by turbofan on P4T forum, he will post every private email that we have exchanged, on ATS. Tino/turbofan is a traitor, a blackmail artist and can never be trusted with information on colleagues that may be working behind the scenes. Tino is perfect match for Farmer. Especially since they both request to delete their work.. or delete it outright... after already posted/published....lol

I am going to disclose everything right here and now as Tino has much more to hide, including blackmail.

1. Congrats GL's, Im Rob Balsamo.... Tino knows this and has known since day 1.

Why did i do it? Because i been banned from this forum. I thought R_Mackey would be a bit of satire to register with and clearly this thread needed some opposition. Clearly the Mods knew I am Rob Balsamo if they read any accusation posted, cross checked it with IP, as i never changed IP. I never change IP unless I move. I refuse to use an anon proxy as most GL's use to argue with people they think are nuts.

I also never change my writing style. Why bother?

GL says, "I knew it.. see! He was Rob!" (as if i a tried to hide it...lol)

Sure i spoke in the third person. I didnt want to get banned before 50 pages.. duh. But i never took your bait.

Hows Tom taking his ban by the way?

Those who never registered a sock in their entire life, please cast the first stone.

<snip>

Tino, if you are truly on our side. i certainly hope you attempt to start your own organization only to be blackmailed by soemone like yourself. But then again, you dont have a clue and need the backing of P4T.

Ah, sending you an email stating that I made an error in my work and requesting it be pulled or corrected is simply owning up to mistakes. Continuing to promote the material after you know it is wrong, well that is just plain lying. I feel Turbo's pain.

Gee...why is nobody surprised at that?

This little Peyton Place just adds gravy to the meatloaf. Balsamo crying foul when one of his foot soldiers dares to question the Prime Directive. Then, like a petty little third-rate digital despot, locks him out, calls him a "traitor" and a "blackmail artist" when all the guy wants is to disassociate himself from faulty "science".

Great entertainment, Cap't Bob. Keep up the hole digging. Eventually you'll reach China and you can start all over again.

See, this is why I chose to have my name removed from P4T, because Rob Balsamo is a child and has no people skills.

He has lost more core members than I care to count because of his attitude. He has lost more members due to his short, aggressive methods than he has core members.

I have no need to post your private material, you've just shown how much of a scum bag you really are.

For the record, I threatened to post your e-mails because you refused to remove me from your thread and even had the nerve to restore my post from the Trash folder! This after removing my access to your site! You spineless xxxxx.

I guess someone's a little pissed off that he was shown errors. Unlike you, I apologized from my mistake and carried on. Also for the record, TomK found the mistake NOT YOU. You didn't tell me squat about the ASI! For what it's worth, my error was a visual error...yours was a logical error and you continue to push an erroneous theory. That's the difference between you and I.

Wow, I never expected this sort of treatment from an organization leader, and certainly not after putting a roof over your head for 3 months. Never

forget that Mr. Balsamo.

<snip>

Anytime you want to learn about "Virtual" Basic (Visual), or "C+" (C++), or how data storage works, come and see me.

Go away Robbie. Go play on your forums and make up sock accounts instead of growing your pilot base. Maybe you should get off your butt for once and knock on some doors instead of waiting for people to find your site. Tons of pilot agencies out there willing to listen; maybe not to such a fool like you though.

I'll debate you live on camera, right here, anywhere about this FLT_DECK connection nonsense. Just say the word. It's too bad your latest press

release wasn't half as thought out as any of your previous ones.

Class, just pure class Mr. Balsamo. Let me know when you have the proper docs. K?

P.S. I encourage anyone seeking research for 9/11 to find it anywhere but P4T. Please don't associate yourself with organizations that post stupidity on internet forums for the world to see. NOT very professional whatsoever!

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread...pg53#pid7649282

Yep, this is the guy who threatens to shoot pilots who disagree with him. Real credible, this one.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Evan Burton

[Evan Burton]

I think this sums it up nicely:

So, Balsamo, an unadulterated loon and self-proclaimed American hero (insert laughing dog here) had to move to Canada so that Tino could support him because he couldn't support himself? I'm guessing that he was just as dishonest at the border crossing as he has been with everything he's ever written online.

And he impersonated Ryan Mackey with a sockpuppet account, melted down dramatically when someone in his own camp gently pointed out the problems with his unsupported assertions, and called himself a "celebrity" and the "tip of the spear" for being idiotic enough to post his psychobabble on the Interwebs.

The stupid, it really, really burns.

Holy crazy cycle, Batman.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=537...p;postcount=351

[Jack White]

in two parts...watch both.

Jack

[Len Colby]

in two parts...watch both.

Jack

We've been over this guy before, he isn't really an MIT engineer he got a BS in electrical engineering from the school in the early 70's and then after a few years went to medical school and has been a family practitioner in rural VT since graduation. Thus nothing in his training or professional experience makes him any more qualified than Jack or I to opine on what did ordidn't lead the towers to collapse.

He doesn't add anything new other than his false title, qualified civil/structural/materials science engineering profs from schools like MIT, Cambridge and Northwestern came to completely different conclusions

[Evan Burton]

in two parts...watch both.

Jack

We've been over this guy before, he isn't really an MIT engineer he got a BS in electrical engineering from the school in the early 70's and then after a few years went to medical school and has been a family practitioner in rural VT since graduation. Thus nothing in his training or professional experience makes him any more qualified than Jack or I to opine on what did ordidn't lead the towers to collapse.

He doesn't add anything new other than his false title, qualified civil/structural/materials science engineering profs from schools like MIT, Cambridge and Northwestern came to completely different conclusions

Yep - previously discussed here. Standard tactics: make a claim, have it proven false, ignore responses, wait a while, reintroduce claim.

[Jack White]

Ad Hominem attacks do not constitute "debunking".

Jack

[Evan Burton]

You should make sure you apply that term correctly, Jack:

ad ho⋅mi⋅nem

–adjective

1. appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason.

2. attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Ad+Hominem

It was already shown - in the previous thread - that he was not a physicist as you initially claimed, that he had no special skills in building engineering or construction, and that others (equally qualified) found flaws with his claims and calculations.

Whether you like it or not, you have started a new thread on the same subject... and in that thread you accuse me of an ad hom attack when all I did was point out that he was not an MIT physicist (as you claimed) but an electrical engineer who was a graduate of MIT. Then you questioned my qualifications, and I presented them.

You then started to talk about Dr Judy Wood and Richard Gage.