Guest Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 An irrational fear of being exposed to the truth is a PHOBIA.Jack OK Jack, under your own terms, you have a 'phobia' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 From John Lear on another forum: Between the four airplanes which allegedly crashed on 911 there should be approximately 9 million parts. 3 million parts each for the 767 and 1.5 million parts for the 757. In addition to the parts there should be 60 miles of wiring for each 757 or 120 miles for both. There is 90 miles of wiring on each 767 which makes 180 miles for both 767's. Wiring is stamped every 12 inches or so with data which includes where it is going, where it is coming from and its maximum load capacity. The reason for this is that wiring is braided into bundles of up to one hundred wires and when you are tracing down a problem you have to know quickly which wire you are looking for and identify it. Every single part on a Transport Category airplane which means it is certificated to the standards of CFR14 (Code of Federal Regulations) Part 25 of the U.S. Federal Air Regulations and to be certificated either it has to be made by the factory (Boeing) itself or subcontracted to another parts maker. If it is made by another parts maker that parts maker has to be inspected by the FAA and given PMA Parts Manufacturer Authority. Every single part on a U.S Transport must have a Parts Number stamped, engraved, embossed or otherwise identified so that an FAA inspector can pick up a part and immediately identify whether or not that parts meets conformity. Every single rivet and screw and other type fastener has their own code of identification for the type. Every single forging, must be stamped just like ever other piece of the airplane must be clearly identified with a parts number, either engraved, painted, stamped, etc. This is so that an FAA inspector can immediately tell whether or not that part meets conformity. This includes every single part of an engine, auxiliary power unit, door, safety belt, wheel, hydraulic pump or whatever. It is also because in the investigation of an accident each remaining part is inspected for conformity. Parts numbers must be stamped, engraved, painted in a manner that even if it is mutilated that the part number is still visible. The alleged Boeing 767 fuselage section, allegedly having been thrown clear of the accident to the top of building 5 will have part numbers somewhere on that piece. You will notice that it is not burnt so identification should be easy. Regarding the alleged engine on Murray street is extremely difficult to understand how an engine that size could break in half behind the fan section, considering the shaft is one piece. But whatever the case there should be identification numbers on all of the remaining parts of the engine. Each Boeing 767 engine weighs about 9000 pounds. The takeoff internal temperature of the 767 engine is over 900 C so it is highly unlikely that any of the alleged 3 remaining engine in the WTC were burned to any extent. Forgings much larger than the Boeing 767 engine should have been visible in the wreckage of the WTC buildings, particularly the wing attachment to fuselage forging. Based on the above it is impossible that any Boeing 767 crashed into either the North Tower or the South Tower. John Lear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) An irrational fear of being exposed to the truth is a PHOBIA.Jack OK Jack, under your own terms, you have a 'phobia' I expose the truth. I have no irrational fear of finding the truth. I have an irrational fear of snakes....Ophidiophobia....nothing personal intended. Jack Edited September 23, 2009 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) Tsk, tsk. Mr Lear once again exaggerates and misinforms. Firstly - did the aircraft parts have ID marks? Yep. So every part in all the aircraft in all the aircraft had serial numbers, right? No. Most parts are required to have a part number, not a serial number. All of the same parts have the same part number. Certain critical parts are required to have a serial number, not all parts. § 45.11 General.(a) Aircraft and aircraft engines. Aircraft covered under §21.182 of this chapter must be identified, and each person who manufacturers an aircraft engine under a type or production certificate shall identify that engine, by means of a fireproof plate that has the information specified in §45.13 of this part marked on it by etching, stamping, engraving, or other approved method of fireproof marking. The identification plate for aircraft must be secured in such a manner that it will not likely be defaced or removed during normal service, or lost or destroyed in an accident. Except as provided in paragraphs ©, (d), and (e) of this section, the aircraft identification plate must be secured to the aircraft fuselage exterior so that it is legible to a person on the ground, and must be either adjacent to and aft of the rear-most entrance door or on the fuselage surface near the tail surfaces. For aircraft engines, the identification plate must be affixed to the engine at an accessible location in such a manner that it will not likely be defaced or removed during normal service, or lost or destroyed in an accident. . . . § 45.14 Identification of critical components. Each person who produces a part for which a replacement time, inspection interval, or related procedure is specified in the Airworthiness Limitations section of a manufacturer's maintenance manual or Instructions for Continued Airworthiness shall permanently and legibly mark that component with a part number (or equivalent) and a serial number (or equivalent). § 45.15 Replacement and modification parts. (a) Except as provided in paragraph ( of this section, each person who produces a replacement or modification part under a Parts Manufacturer Approval issued under §21.303 of this chapter shall permanently and legibly mark the part with— (1) The letters “FAA-PMA”; (2) The name, trademark, or symbol of the holder of the Parts Manufacturer Approval; (3) The part number; and (4) The name and model designation of each type certificated product on which the part is eligible for installation. ( If the Administrator finds that a part is too small or that it is otherwise impractical to mark a part with any of the information required by paragraph (a) of this section, a tag attached to the part or its container must include the information that could not be marked on the part. If the marking required by paragraph (a)(4) of this section is so extensive that to mark it on a tag is impractical, the tag attached to the part or the container may refer to a specific readily available manual or catalog for part eligibility information. From FAA FAR Part 45 - IDENTIFICATION AND REGISTRATION MARKINGS. So only some parts have a serial... but an engine would have a serial number on it. Let me now pose a question: has Mr Lear done a FOIA request regarding the engine serial numbers? Edited September 23, 2009 by Evan Burton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 As has been demonstrated on this forum (and elsewhere) Lear is a raving lunatic. I know or assume that most of his facts are correct but they don’t support his conclusions. For example it’s probably true that: “Wiring is stamped every 12 inches or so with data which includes where it is going, where it is coming from and its maximum load capacity.” But that in no way supports his conclusions that: “Parts numbers must be stamped, engraved, painted in a manner that even if it is mutilated that the part number is still visible. The alleged Boeing 767 fuselage section, allegedly having been thrown clear of the accident to the top of building 5 will have part numbers somewhere on that piece” “Regarding the alleged engine on Murray street is extremely difficult to understand how an engine that size could break in half behind the fan section, considering the shaft is one piece.” “Forgings much larger than the Boeing 767 engine should have been visible in the wreckage of the WTC buildings, particularly the wing attachment to fuselage forging.” His conclusion that “The alleged Boeing 767 fuselage section, allegedly having been thrown clear of the accident to the top of building 5 will have part numbers somewhere on that piece” is quite dubious; seemingly all that was left was a chunk of the aluminum (?) outer shell. It is my understanding that only parts which are normally replaced over a plane’s lifetime get serial numbers. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...UA175debris.jpg His declaration that “…in the investigation of an accident each remaining part is inspected for conformity.” Is obviously false he previous stated that (edited for brevity): Every single part on a U.S Transport must have a Parts Number stamped, engraved, embossed or otherwise identified…Every single rivet and screw and other type fastener has their own code of identification for the type…This includes every single part of an engine, auxiliary power unit, door, safety belt, wheel, hydraulic pump or whatever.” So according to Lear if a plane crashed due to engine failure the NTSB would “inspect…”, “every single rivet and screw and other type fastener …door, safety belt, wheel, hydraulic pump or whatever.” “…for conformity.” He said that 767’s have “approximately…3 million parts each”, it would take years to go through the meaningless exercise of checking all those parts. In reality the NTSB is only interested in parts suspected of having played a role in the crash, with the occasional exception of “black boxes” (CVR and FDR) the NTSB rarely gives the serial numbers of parts not determined to have played a role in the crash. His declaration that. “Regarding the alleged engine on Murray street is extremely difficult to understand how an engine that size could break in half behind the fan section, considering the shaft is one piece.” Makes little sense, it was IDed as a engine core not an engine broken in half. He can’t claim to having expertise he never flew a 757/767 or plane of similar vintage and AFAIK has no experience as an aeronautical engineer or jet engine mechanic. Basically his rantings amount to little more than a recycling of Col. Nelson’s complaint that serial numbers were not produced, there are (at least) 3 major fallacies with their reasoning. 1) Unlike the NTSB and FAA the FBI does not normally make its reports public 2) The NTSB rarely gives the serial numbers of parts not determined to have played a role in the crash 3) Even if the FBI a) gave the serial # of every recovered part supplied photos/videos of them in the locations they were recovered c) posted hi resolution copies online d) made the parts available for inspection e) posted high resolution scans of the maintenance log pages listing the serial #s f) made them available for inspection g) posted high resolution videos all those involved swearing under oath and signing statements that the pages and parts are authentic and unaltered h) posted high resolution scans of their signed statements and i) made them available for inspection – the no planes will simply claim that the evidence was fake and the witnesses lying. The only poll to ask about such things showed that in 2006 only 6% of the population believed the Pentagon was struck by a missile. The number of people who believe that the WTC towers were hit by anything other than 767’s is far smaller. Even with in the “ ‘truth’ movement” “no planers” are small fringe and considered crazy - based on their internet postings, websites, videos etc most (all?) people who promote such theories are mentally unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I have an irrational fear of snakes....Ophidiophobia....nothing personal intended.Jack And that is your 'shadow' peeping through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I have an irrational fear of snakes....Ophidiophobia....nothing personal intended.Jack And that is your 'shadow' peeping through. Your fear of shadows is called Sciaphobia. Note the spelling, sCIAphobia, aptly. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I have an irrational fear of snakes....Ophidiophobia....nothing personal intended.Jack And that is your 'shadow' peeping through. Your fear of shadows is called Sciaphobia. Note the spelling, sCIAphobia, aptly. Jack You're not a 'Jung' man then Jack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) What other parts are there? Fuselage parts Landing gear parts So do any parts match the claimed aircraft? SURPRISE - yes they do: Which matches part of the leading edge slat control system on the B767. Here are other parts recovered: http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/...ecord.asp?ID=45 BTW, I agree with Len: these days, Lear is a whacko. Edited September 24, 2009 by Evan Burton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen Turner Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I have an irrational fear of snakes....Ophidiophobia....nothing personal intended.Jack And that is your 'shadow' peeping through. Your fear of shadows is called Sciaphobia. Note the spelling, sCIAphobia, aptly. Jack You're not a 'Jung' man then Jack? Perhaps the odd chorus of Auld LaingSyne might heal the rift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 I know that certain words are banned here as unacceptable to children who access the site. Is it OK to call someone here a TWIT? Until now I have never used that word. I think it is exclusively a British term, right? Or is it a banned word? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Speaking as one of the Mods here, I see no problem with twit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 The insanity continues. Not only do these vile creatures claim that 9-11 victims never existed, they also question the 9-11 Victims Fund. There have been lies spread on various forums about the fund, completely untrue claims such as recipients of monies from the fund were required to "keep quiet" about 9-11, that a proviso of the money was that they answer no questions about their relatives, etc. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence - and a desire to seek factual information - could discover such a claim was false: VICTIM COMPENSATION FUND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS(Updated July 11, 2002) Section 9 – Waiver/Certification 9.1 What does it mean to waive rights to file a lawsuit? - If you are an injured Victim, you will, once your claim is submitted and deemed substantially complete, waive your right to file a lawsuit against any entity seeking compensation for the injury sustained by the September 11 attacks. This waiver does not apply to a civil action to recover collateral source obligations or to a civil action against any person who is a knowing participant in any conspiracy to hijack any aircraft or commit any terrorist act. - If the Victim is deceased, the claimant will waive his or her rights to file an action seeking compensation for the Victim's death. This waiver does not apply to a civil action to recover collateral source obligations or to a civil action against any person who is a knowing participant in any conspiracy to hijack any aircraft or commit any terrorist act. The statute may be interpreted to mean that the submission of a claim for a deceased Victim will waive the rights of other beneficiaries of that Victim to file a lawsuit. 9.2 Whose rights are waived by filing a claim? The claimant’s rights are waived. The statute may be interpreted to mean that the submission of a claim for a deceased Victim will waive the rights of other beneficiaries of that Victim to file a lawsuit 9.3 If I apply for compensation for an Advance Benefit, do I give up my rights? Yes, once you submit the Eligibility and Application for Advance Benefits part of the new Compensation Form (or the previously published Eligibility Form and Application for Advance Benefits) and it is deemed substantially complete you will have waived your rights. The Act provides that upon the submission of a claim under the Fund, the claimant waives the right to file a civil action (or to be a party to an action) in any Federal or State court for damages sustained as a result of the terrorist-related aircraft crashes of September 11, 2001, except that this limitation does not apply to civil actions to recover collateral source obligations or to a civil action against any person who is a knowing participant in any conspiracy to hijack any aircraft or commit any terrorist act. 9.4 When do I give up my rights to file other claims in court? You waive your rights once your submission of a claim is deemed substantially complete based on the determination of a Claims Evaluator. If you apply for an Advance Benefit and the Special Master determines that you have submitted a substantially complete Eligibility and Application for Advance Benefits part of the new Compensation Form (or the previously published Eligibility Form and Application for Advance Benefits) you will have been deemed to have filed claim and will be giving up your rights to bring a lawsuit. If you do not request Advance Benefits, you will be deemed to have filed and will be giving up your rights to bring a lawsuit if the Special Master determines you have submitted a substantially complete Personal Injury Compensation Form or Compensation Form for Deceased Victims, as well as the Eligibility and Application for Advance Benefits (form or part). 9.5 Will submission of a claim to the Fund affect other benefits I get? That will depend on the particular benefit program. You should check with the administrators of the programs from which you receive benefits. If you are receiving workers compensation benefits, you should check with your carrier or union or employer to make sure you have obtained all the necessary information, agreements or waivers. 9.6 Is a notice of claim or intent filed with the Port Authority, the City of New York, or a Workers' Compensation carrier considered a civil action that would bar a claim with the Victim Compensation Fund? No. A notice of claim or intent filed with the Port Authority, the City of New York, or a Workers' Compensation carrier does not constitute a civil action in federal or state court. If you have filed such notices, you may still file a claim with the Victim Compensation Fund. However, if you proceed with a lawsuit (or are made a party to a lawsuit) in state or federal court for damages as a result of the crashes, you will not be able to claim from the Victim Compensation Fund, unless it is a civil action to recover collateral source obligations or a civil action against any person who is a knowing participant in any conspiracy to hijack any aircraft or commit any terrorist act. 9.7 I’ve filed a claim, and one of my family members objected because he wants to file a lawsuit. Will my claim be processed? The Fund will process the claim if it is filed by an eligible personal representative and that claimant is not a party to an action in state or federal court seeking damages as a result of the September 11th terrorist attacks and if there is no legitimate objection to the claim. We cannot advise on how the court will address the issue of waiver or whether the family member will be permitted to pursue a lawsuit. 9.8 Q&As Regarding Lawsuits Against Terrorist Conspiracy Participants Question A Q: If I file a claim under the Fund, may I also file or be a party to a lawsuit against someone who "is a knowing participant in any conspiracy to hijack any aircraft or commit any terrorist act?" A: Yes. Question B Q: What happens if I file a claim with the Fund and also file a lawsuit against someone who is not a "knowing participant in any conspiracy to hijack any aircraft or commit any terrorist act?" A: Section 405©(3)((i) states that a claimant to the Fund "waives the right to file a civil action (or to be a party to an action) in any Federal or State court for damages sustained as a result of the terrorist-related aircraft crashes of September 11, 2001," and makes exceptions only for lawsuits "to recover collateral source obligations" and lawsuits against a defendant that is a "knowing participant in any conspiracy to hijack any aircraft or commit any terrorist act." If you file a claim with the Fund and also file a lawsuit against someone who is not a "knowing participant in any conspiracy to hijack any aircraft or commit any terrorist act," you are still eligible for compensation from the Fund, but your lawsuit will be dismissed. This rule applies regardless of whether you file your claim with the Fund before or after filing the lawsuit. Question C Q: Who will decide whether a defendant is in fact a "knowing participant in any conspiracy to hijack any aircraft or commit any terrorist act?" A: In all cases, regardless of whether you file your claim with the Fund before or after filing the lawsuit, the court will decide the issue whether a defendant is a "knowing participant in any conspiracy to hijack any aircraft or commit any terrorist act." If the court determines that the plaintiff has submitted a claim to the Fund and that a defendant is not a "knowing participant in any conspiracy to hijack any aircraft or commit any terrorist act," then it must dismiss the lawsuit against that defendant (unless the lawsuit is one to recover collateral source obligations). http://www.usdoj.gov/archive/victimcompensation/faq9.pdf But it mean they can't sue the Government, or Bush, etc, if they were shown to have been involved in a MIHOP / LIHOP, right? NO. Q: If I file a claim under the Fund, may I also file or be a party to a lawsuit against someone who "is a knowing participant in any conspiracy to hijack any aircraft or commit any terrorist act?" A: Yes. So, once again the 'truth movement' shows that truth is the last thing it wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 So, where is the FOIA request, asking for the serial numbers, and the subsequent admission that none existed? Hmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) I am not challenging or being combative - but why not disprove it all, if it can be disproven? In the VicSim affair - surely there were enough books with photos of some WTC victims (and even extant pictures of their "Missing" posters up on Ground Zero fences) that could be checked against the purported VicSims. Enough determined people working together could use a representative sample of vic photos to establish veracity or mendacity. Edited September 25, 2009 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now