FBI, the mob, and 9/11

[Jack White]

I find it interesting that NOBODY addressed the image I posted, but

instead retaliated by launching personal attacks. Any argument that

does not address this photo is meaningless.

How can a fire truck take a picture of itself?

Ha...you caught my grammatical error! I should have said ONE OF THE FIREMEN

took the photo! In fact, as I recall, he took 9 photos, of which that page shows two.

They were published in the official newsmagazine of the firefighters association, or

they would have gone unknown. Thanks for pointing out my bad word choice.

Jack

[Jack White]

I find it interesting that NOBODY addressed the image I posted, but

instead retaliated by launching personal attacks. Any argument that

does not address this photo is meaningless.

Jack

Jack,

That doesn't look like "no signs of an aircraft crash" to me. It looks like there's fire coming from the Pentagon and trucks are pouring water on it.

BK

But Bill...THERE ARE NO FLAMES COMING FROM THE PENTAGON, less than 10 minutes after the "crash";

the only flame seen is a small fire under a construction trailer at right. There is NO WRECKAGE seen in

this early photo, though small planted parts were sprinkled around the area during the 72 hours the fire

burned. And you are correct about WATER being sprayed on the small fire; the protocol for fighting a

jet fuel fire is to USE FOAM SPRAY instead of water.

Jack

[Michael Hogan]

In fact, as I recall, he took 9 photos, of which that page shows two.

They were published in the official newsmagazine of the firefighters association, or

they would have gone unknown. Thanks for pointing out my bad word choice.

Did any of the firemen give accounts of what they saw and did? Why was

the photographer so far away from the scene and his fellow firefighters?

[Jack White]

In fact, as I recall, he took 9 photos, of which that page shows two.

They were published in the official newsmagazine of the firefighters association, or

they would have gone unknown. Thanks for pointing out my bad word choice.

Did any of the firemen give accounts of what they saw and did? Why was

the photographer so far away from the scene and his fellow firefighters?

Good questions.

The NFPA publishes a newsletter where the photos and firemen's stories

appeared. I just tried to access the original article, and got this message:

[Duane Daman]

Well Duane,

Since you haven't been reading the titles of these posts, don't read the books we are discussing and haven't seen the photos then why are we even having this discussion.

I suggest you read the book before making any more posts on this subject.

Thanks,

BK

I didn't realize that one had to have read this book before posting on this thread .

My apologies for the intrusion.

If one chooses to stick their head in the sand and avoid each and every primary source that they can, that's their right.

They just shouldn't expect others to take their opinions very seriously.

That's great advise Mike ... but I don't believe I would have much interest in reading any more government lies, regardless of the reason.

[William Kelly]

Well Duane,

Since you haven't been reading the titles of these posts, don't read the books we are discussing and haven't seen the photos then why are we even having this discussion.

I suggest you read the book before making any more posts on this subject.

Thanks,

BK

I didn't realize that one had to have read this book before posting on this thread .

My apologies for the intrusion.

If one chooses to stick their head in the sand and avoid each and every primary source that they can, that's their right.

They just shouldn't expect others to take their opinions very seriously.

That's great advise Mike ... but I don't believe I would have much interest in reading any more government lies, regardless of the reason.

Duane,

One doesn't have to read the book before posting on this thread. Now that I realize that you don't know what this thread is about or have any intention of learning anything abou it, I won't bother you either.

I'm sure the Evil Empire is quite conent with their minions remaining blissfully ignorant of the truth as well as their lies.

As John Judge says, "We are now allowed to believe anything and know nothing."

BK

[Evan Burton]

I think that might be a bad link, because I get the same error.

It should be /firehouse/something.html or asp or whatever. What we are trying to do with that command is to either look at the default index page or view the whole directory.

This one works:

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/mag.../gz/hayden.html

Edited February 25, 2008 by Evan Burton

[Evan Burton]

I find it interesting that NOBODY addressed the image I posted, but instead retaliated by launching personal attacks. Any argument that does not address this photo is meaningless.

Jack

I raised it in the thread on Political Conspiracies. Have a look there, but also look at these:

Fort Myer firefighter Alan Wallace, a veteran federal firefighter, was tending to the foam rig on the Pentagon fire station ramp, when he heard the Boeing 757’s screaming engines – and looked to the sky. American Airlines Fight 77 to Los Angeles, with 64 souls aboard, had been hijacked from Washington-Dulles International Airport. ``Runnnnn!’’ Wallace yelled to a buddy, firefighter Mark Skipper.

The plane was 200 yards away - and 25 feet off the ground.

``There was no time to look back, barely time to scramble’’ for Wallace and the others, The Washington Post said. ``He made it about 30 feet, heard a terrible roar, felt the heat, and dove underneath a van, skinning his stomach as he slid across the blacktop, sailing across it as though he were riding a luge.

``A few seconds later he was sliding back out to check on his friend and then race back to the fire truck,’’ the Post said. ``He jumped in threw it into gear, but the accelerator was dead. The entire back of the truck was destroyed, the cab on fire. He grabbed the radio handset and called the main station at Fort Myer to report the unimaginable.’’

Engine 101 actually saw the jetliner plow into the northwest side of the Pentagon. The radio crackled, “Engine 101—emergency traffic, a plane has gone down into the Pentagon. I made a quick U-turn and was on scene within a minute to a minute and a half of the initial impact. En route, I remembered my wife was scheduled to be on a flight to Dulles at 10 a.m.

People were just leaving their vehicles on Highway 110 and staring in disbelief. I wanted to put myself in a position where we wouldn’t be threatened by a secondary explosion. I set up triage, treatment and transport sectors in a grassy area on a hill with a good vantage point of the incident. I special ordered 20 paramedic units and a bus for the walking wounded, along with a couple of helicopters.

http://arlingtonfirejournal.blogspot.com/2...pt-11-2001.html

THE PENTAGON ATTACK ON 9-11: ARLINGTON COUNTY (VA) FIRE DEPARTMENT RESPONSE

The Pentagon Crash - Why the No-757 Crowd is Making an Ass out of Itself

[Maggie Hansen]

I have to agree. We were mesmerised by the images of the planes crashing into the twin towers over and over for weeks on end. But there was never one image of the plane crashing into the Pentagon. Why? At the most peaceful of times it must be one of the most surveilled buildings in the world. When they know that two of four hijacked planes have already flown into the towers I can only assume that they would have increased their security. Yet the best they can do is offer four frames from a car park camera (with the wrong date) which shows something bursting into flames but I couldn't say it was or was not a plane. Where are the films? Why the secrecy?

[Len Colby]

The subject of surveillance video (or lack there of) from the Pentagon has already been extensively discussed on other threads. Perhaps anyone interested in revisiting the issue should revive one rather that start from zero here.

For a head start perhaps you can look for evidence that unreleased tapes that would show the impact exist (or existed)

[Guest David Guyatt]

I have to agree. We were mesmerised by the images of the planes crashing into the twin towers over and over for weeks on end. But there was never one image of the plane crashing into the Pentagon. Why? At the most peaceful of times it must be one of the most surveilled buildings in the world. When they know that two of four hijacked planes have already flown into the towers I can only assume that they would have increased their security. Yet the best they can do is offer four frames from a car park camera (with the wrong date) which shows something bursting into flames but I couldn't say it was or was not a plane. Where are the films? Why the secrecy?

Maggies, I think the point you raise is a significant one.

[Evan Burton]

How do people simply discount the eyewitness statements?

14 Videos which have eyewitness accounts

I posted this earlier, but it is worth repeating:

104 directly saw the plane hit the Pentagon.

6 were nearly hit by the plane in front of the Pentagon. Several others were within 100-200 feet of the impact.

26 mentioned that it was an American Airlines jet.

39 others mentioned that it was a large jet/commercial airliner.

2 described a smaller corporate jet. 1 described a "commuter plane" but didn't mention the size.

7 said it was a Boeing 757.

8 witnesses were pilots. One witness was an Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower Chief.

2 witnesses were firefighters working on their truck at the Pentagon heliport.

4 made radio calls to inform emergency services that a plane had hit the Pentagon.

10 said the plane's flaps and landing gear were not deployed (1 thought landing gear struck a light pole).

16 mentioned seeing the plane hit light poles/trees, or were next to to the poles when it happened. Another 8 mentioned the light poles being knocked down: it's unknown if they saw them hit.

42 mentioned seeing aircraft debris. 4 mentioned seeing airline seats. 3 mentioned engine parts.

2 mentioned bodies still strapped into seats.

15 mentioned smelling or contacting aviation/jet fuel.

3 had vehicles damaged by light poles or aircraft debris. Several saw other occupied vehicles damaged.

3 took photographs of the aftermath.

Many mentioned false alarm warnings of other incoming planes after the crash. One said "3-4 warnings."

And of course,

0 saw a military aircraft or missile strike the Pentagon.

0 saw a plane narrowly miss the Pentagon and fly away.

Pentagon witness list (Excel spreadsheet)

Witnesses 1

Witnesses 2

Witnesses 3

Witnesses 4

[William Plumlee]

How do people simply discount the eyewitness statements?

14 Videos which have eyewitness accounts

I posted this earlier, but it is worth repeating:

104 directly saw the plane hit the Pentagon.

6 were nearly hit by the plane in front of the Pentagon. Several others were within 100-200 feet of the impact.

26 mentioned that it was an American Airlines jet.

39 others mentioned that it was a large jet/commercial airliner.

2 described a smaller corporate jet. 1 described a "commuter plane" but didn't mention the size.

7 said it was a Boeing 757.

8 witnesses were pilots. One witness was an Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower Chief.

2 witnesses were firefighters working on their truck at the Pentagon heliport.

4 made radio calls to inform emergency services that a plane had hit the Pentagon.

10 said the plane's flaps and landing gear were not deployed (1 thought landing gear struck a light pole).

16 mentioned seeing the plane hit light poles/trees, or were next to to the poles when it happened. Another 8 mentioned the light poles being knocked down: it's unknown if they saw them hit.

42 mentioned seeing aircraft debris. 4 mentioned seeing airline seats. 3 mentioned engine parts.

2 mentioned bodies still strapped into seats.

15 mentioned smelling or contacting aviation/jet fuel.

3 had vehicles damaged by light poles or aircraft debris. Several saw other occupied vehicles damaged.

3 took photographs of the aftermath.

Many mentioned false alarm warnings of other incoming planes after the crash. One said "3-4 warnings."

And of course,

0 saw a military aircraft or missile strike the Pentagon.

0 saw a plane narrowly miss the Pentagon and fly away.

Pentagon witness list (Excel spreadsheet)

Witnesses 1

Witnesses 2

Witnesses 3

Witnesses 4

Moved from other thread:

"... By mistake I called Jack a POS when I should have said his research on the Pentagon was a POS and it was not 'Pile of S..., it was a Piece of S..., this I will stand behind.

note: from an eye witness who was stopped near the Arlington Cemetery with backed up traffic. "I saw this Big airplane swoop down and I said OH! MY GOD! RUN RUN, we thought it was going to crash on us. And then it went over and shook the ground. It hit the Pentagon, over there", she pointed. Eve Brown, Falls Church, VA.

From Sam Bartel of Greenberg PA. "My wife and I were riding on 395 when we saw this AIRLINER flying low. At first I thought it was going to land at the airport, but I told my wife, Its to low and then OH Jesus!, I said. And then it hit..."

There are over a hundred of these type of reports. I guess these people as well as all the fireman and those inside with the smell of burning jet fuel, trying to save their friends from death, are all part of this massive "cover-up".

The 911 recorded calls, also show where many said "An Airliner just crashed into the Pentagon". The switchboard was jammed within five minutes with reports. I guess they too, work for the government and are part of a "cover up", and conspiracy.

Talk to the wives of the pilots killed in the crash...., talk to their children. Take a look at the passenger's list and go and talk to their families. Talk to the doctors at the hospitals. Talk to the doctors and asked what was told to them by their patients.

Then come back on this forum and tell us what you found out. Look these people in the eye and tell them their love ones are not dead, that they were not on an airliner that crashed into the Pentagon, because they did not exist. Tell the children of these families that their mothers and fathers did not die in a plane that crash into the pentagon. Tell the first responders that they are all liars and be sure and tell the families they are liars also. Look them in the eye and tell them that.

None of you have the GUTS to do that, because you are COWARDS and hide in your closets and spit out Venom.

You people make me sick. And I refuse to be associated with any of you. And too, I refuse to be a part of a Forum that would allow this type of SLOPPY Research and special interest asshole to put this type of CRAP in this forum with nothing more to back up their research than their theories and opinions presented as facts. A new generation looks to us as examples. They only seek truth, because they care. They are only trying to establish the facts behind such a tragic event.

I will no longer be a part of this group...or this FORUM... I'm out of here... and I am sure some of you will say GOOD Riddance. But I could care less what you think. You have proven to me what you really are

Conspiracy my ASS.

[Dave Greer]

In fact, as I recall, he took 9 photos, of which that page shows two.

They were published in the official newsmagazine of the firefighters association, or

they would have gone unknown. Thanks for pointing out my bad word choice.

Did any of the firemen give accounts of what they saw and did? Why was

the photographer so far away from the scene and his fellow firefighters?

Good questions.

The NFPA publishes a newsletter where the photos and firemen's stories

appeared. I just tried to access the original article, and got this message:

Jack

It may be something to do with your browser. I can access the page with no problems using Internet Explorer. I just downloaded the latest version of Safari (v3 Beta) and the page loads fine too.

You could try upgrading your browser by downloading the latest versio of the Safari browser below. Notice this is a beta version, so there may be some bugs.

http://www.apple.com/downloads/

[Maggie Hansen]

How do people simply discount the eyewitness statements?

Evan and others,

I don't discount the eyewitness statements. What I do question is the evidence in general. How do we know that we have all the evidence and not selective evidence? There must be hundreds of videos of the Pentagon plane. There are cameras all around the Pentagon itself. Then there are all the businesses nearby protecting there property and all the cameras on the roads monitoring the traffic. Where are all the films from the mobile phones of the persons caught in traffic who saw the plane impact? I don't doubt for a second that something did hit the Pentagon and it most probably was a plane. But why the secrecy? Where are the videos showing this event in all its Technicolor glory like the twin towers? Its not like it was night time in the Alaskan wilderness. It was the middle of the day in the capital of the USA in the 21st century with almost every person awake there aware that something Real Big was going down. Thought there must be a film or two of somewhat better quality than the four or five frames released by the Pentagon two years later. Do I accept the eye witness statements. Yes. As much as I would in any other circumstance and with the same amount of caution. But what about the other film evidence that should verify the eyewitness accounts? Where is that? Do I trust the government? No way. Its like a magic trick where everyone is made to look at the twin towers being crashed into and falling down over and over again but there is nothing of the Pentagon event. What's not to see? It is not fully documented.

Edited February 26, 2008 by Maggie Hansen