Taking it to the Streets

[Terry Mauro]

Lately, it's been called to my attention by one of my fellow collaborators, who's just finished his final paper on the assassinations, that there must be something more to "life after JFK assassination research". To which I answered that it was time to get involved with educating the masses of anesthetized citizenry regarding the usurpage of their rights and freedoms by the present political administration and the abomination we've allowed to fester and eat away at the heart of the U.S. Constitution.

Below, I've copied and pasted the section of MoveOn.org and their attempts at organizing demonstrations on a grassroots level by putting you in touch with the chapters in your neighborhood, city, and counties, where you'll be able to make your voice known and heard, along with those of like-minded and kindred spirits.

Those of you who are fed up with what's been happening with your own government's reticence and foot-dragging on these issues of corruption, exploitation, and unmitigated greed, feel free to contact MoveOn.org and express your desire to join, or form your own movement. Find out where and how to start. It's time to take it to the streets. Use your computers for more than expressing your humble opinions on the JFK assassination. We already know who the perpetrators are. It's time to take action, NOW!

********************************************************************

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**Stop Corruption Weekend: Sunday, 29 Jan 2006, 1:00 PM. Please RSVP today.**

Dear MoveOn member,

New evidence shows that lobbyists closely connected to indicted-lobbyist Jack Abramoff and Tom DeLay were working for drug companies in the fight over the new Medicare drug law—funding the DeLay-Abramoff money machine.1

That is the sort of corruption we need to expose to the media and the American people and why your work this weekend is so important.

Starting tomorrow thousands of people across the country will gather to connect the dots between their representative and the Republican corruption in Washington—and they've invited the media. A few good articles in the local paper about citizens' anger about Republican corruption could put your Congressperson on the run. The key to success is having a good turnout and that is why your participation is so important.

Here is the Stop Corruption event in your congressional district.

Stop Corruption Weekend

De Longpre Park - Northeast Corner

1390 N Cherokee Ave

Los Angeles, CA

Sunday, 29 Jan 2006, 1:00 PM

Please RSVP:

http://political.moveon.org/event/corrupti...z8CvMYW7m3Q&t=4

A really good turnout is needed for the media to start talking about corruption.

Why focus on corruption? This is the issue that is going to end Republican control of Congress this November. More than 91 percent of Americans say they are concerned about corruption in Washington. They blame the Republicans for it and trust Democrats to clean it up. But only 22 percent think their representative is corrupt.2 We've got work to do.

Starting now we have to expose the Republican corruption in Washington directly to the media and the public in our communities, and push Democrats to become the "party of reform."

This strategy will only work if we do three things. First we have to connect corruption to issues people care about like Medicare. Second we have to show people that their member of Congress is tied to the culture of corruption. Finally, we need to press Democrats to support real reform with teeth.

The plan for this weekend to help reach that goal is simple. MoveOn members will gather briefly to discuss the culture of corruption in Washington and then fan out in their communities to spread the word with a leaflet about the Republican corruption behind the Medicare prescription drug law and a petition asking Congress to support real reform with teeth.

Please RSVP by clicking on the link below.

http://political.moveon.org/event/corrupti...z8CvMYW7m3Q&t=5

In many communities the local media will show up to report on these events and nationally the press will be judging the mood of the country going into the State of the Union address. Good participation by local citizens will show the media that people want a change.

From start to finish it will take less than two hours and your event will be one of hundreds—insuring we'll send an important message to the media and lawmakers.

In an election year like 2006, we can't let President Bush set the agenda. Last year we came out of the gate strong and beat Bush on Social Security. This year we can expose what he won't expose—the corruption in Washington and the urgent need for change.

Thanks for all you do.

—Tom, Carrie, Micayla, Rosalyn and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team

Thursday, January 26, 2006

Source

1. Democrats Seek Investigation into Role of Scandal-Tainted Lobbying Group

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=1420

2. Polling Report on Corruption in Washington

http://www.pollingreport.com/politics.htm

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Your Name

E-mail

Your Street Address

City State Zip

I'm ready to get out there and march.

Sign me up for the January 29, 2006 1:00 demonstration at De Longpre Park.

Somehow the charmed life our parents had hoped to pass along to us, and to their grandchildren has been diverted and divested by a twisted and sinister form of government bearing little resemblance to what we were taught to believe in. Maybe it was nothing more than a lie manufactured by the "bought and paid for" media machine. Isn't it amazing how easily hypnotized and anesthetized a mass of people can become by one form of technology, be it a CRT monitor or an LCD screen. Too much mechanized visual stimulation leads to the atrophy of your other senses, including the ability to think critically and independently. It's time to get off our asses and hit the streets!

Sincerely yours,

Theresa C. Mauro

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This has been going on for far too long, and we'll keep repeating the same mistakes in Iraq and God knows where else, as long as we do nothing to change this mass psy-ops we've allowed to be pulled on us.

BORN IN THE U.S.A.

Born down in a dead man's town

The first kick I took was when I hit the ground

You end up like a dog that's been beat too much

Till you spend half your life just covering up

Born in the U.S.A.

I was born in the U.S.A.

I was born in the U.S.A.

Born in the U.S.A.

Got in a little hometown jam

So they put a rifle in my hand

Sent me off to a foreign land

To go and kill the yellow man

Born in the U.S.A.

I was born in the U.S.A.

I was born in the U.S.A.

I was born in the U.S.A.

Born in the U.S.A.

Come back home to the refinery

Hiring man says "Son if it was up to me"

Went down to see my V.A. man

He said "Son, don't you understand"

I had a brother at Khe Sahn fighting off the Viet Cong

They're still there, he's all gone

He had a woman he loved in Saigon

I got a picture of him in her arms now

Down in the shadow of the penitentiary

Out by the gas fires of the refinery

I'm ten years burning down the road

Nowhere to run ain't got nowhere to go

Born in the U.S.A.

I was born in the U.S.A.

Born in the U.S.A.

I'm a long gone Daddy in the U.S.A.

Born in the U.S.A.

Born in the U.S.A.

Born in the U.S.A.

I'm a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A.

Copyright © Bruce Springsteen (ASCAP)

*****************************************************************************

MY HOME TOWN

I was eight years old and running with a dime in my hand

Into the bus stop to pick up a paper for my old man

I'd sit on his lap in that big old Buick and steer as we drove through town

He'd tousle my hair and say son take a good look around this is your hometown

This is your hometown

This is your hometown

This is your hometown

In '65 tension was running high at my high school

There was a lot of fights between the black and white

There was nothing you could do

Two cars at a light on a Saturday night in the back seat there was a gun

Words were passed in a shotgun blast

Troubled times had come to my hometown

My hometown

My hometown

My hometown

Now Main Street's whitewashed windows and vacant stores

Seems like there ain't nobody wants to come down here no more

They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks

Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back to your hometown

Your hometown

Your hometown

Your hometown

Last night me and Kate we laid in bed

talking about getting out

Packing up our bags maybe heading south

I'm thirty-five we got a boy of our own now

Last night I sat him up behind the wheel and said son take a good look around

This is your hometown

Copyright © Bruce Springsteen (ASCAP)

[Jim Hackett II]

Taking it to the streets wasn't a novel thing once.

The American freedoms are NOT granted by the Bu$hites and the local police. Those freedoms are a birth-right, not priveleges granted by the state but UNALIENABLE RIGHTS granted by NONE.

Taking it to the streets. i.e. the right to peacefully assemble and further to seek redress of grievance are rights too often abrogated and if not abrogated then stolen by lack of use. Not exercising this freedom and others like the right to bear arms is the surest way to guarantee those rights will no longer exist.

Remember the quarantine of opposing views in NYC for the NEOCON convention in 2004? Or the history of subversion of the people's voice to speak to power as in Miami 1972? Right Mr. Gratz? Jeezus Keerist what a folly.

Terri I found your post on the money and quite moving before I got to the Bruce Springsteen lyrics.

It WAS a different America to come home to in the 1970s. The lack of people willing to take it to the streets are one of many reasons why. But isn't that part of the reason behind the state sponsored MURDER of so many leaders in the 1960s and 1970s? Sure as hell it was. To subvert the "american republic" to the will of the Secret Team and to discourage taking it to the street. Witness the Co-Intell Program and all the rest that we all know of and Watergate. All great dangers to my nation but still unaddressed and unremedied all these decades later. Corruption brings down Empires through out history another lesson untaught and unlearned in 2006 as well a great empowering deeds for the Fascisti that assail my Republic and We The People.

The silent fools that have watched as the social programs and education funds WERE STOLEN to be handed to most favored corporations, the DoD and punk criminals like Halliburton and Blackwater Security BEAR a personal responsibility.

A huge lack of critical thinking skills and involvement in the political process are also part of the problem.

Hell taking to the street is LONG OVER DUE. If not already too late as the rise of fascism has already progressed nicely.

Count me and mine in, Terri.

Jim

Edited January 28, 2006 by Jim Hackett II

[Tim Gratz]

What a bunch of --sorry, I never use ther language that best fits!

But I will say that the follies of MoveOn help explain why there is a Republican President and a Republican Congress. The farther to the left the Democrat Party moves, the harder it is for the Dems to elect a President. The Clintons understand this (which is why Hilary is doing her best to paint herself as a "moderate"). If the MoveOn people are able to force the Dems to nominate a leftist rather than a moderate for president in 2008, it will help guarantee four more years of a Republican WH.

So I say: go fot it!

Edited January 28, 2006 by Tim Gratz

[Jim Hackett II]

To which of us do you refer there Tim?

Ask me if I give a sh*t. Yep I'll use the word

Some worked to empower people as opposed to some that worked to subvert and STEAL the American People's voice to speak to power. It is clear which is which. Your history is known. It shames me to think I served this nation to preserve the freedom of some people. But I did and would again if threats were real and not manufactured to empower an UnAmerican Agenda.

Some have worked in community based kitchens to feed the people abandoned by the GOP, some know the need, some cannot see it - until it is too late. Some know the fruit of the GOP/Gingrich/Reagan/Meese/Bu$h1 and 2.

Some couldn't see it even after it lands on their own head as it surely will - ask the German People.

I will not go quietly into the long dark night of living in a Police State of NEOCONS. This is not yet a Fascist nation and you slandering an idea DOES NOT NEGATE THE POSITION.

Or to put in another way Your failure to be informed doesn't invalidate my position no matter how hard you wish it were so.

But then again I would guess you have never listened to hungry kids crying going to sleep because the GOP cut all help in 1996. An inexcusable event in a nation a wealthy as this one. As is the state of public education currently.

A society and body politic CANNOT ever WORK when based on GREED as the GOP IS. Nor can it last.

The GOP only used to despise the poor but now they have declared war on the poor.

Parallel to events in Nazi Germany aslo financed by Wall Street and GOP powers like Prescott Bu$h and Averill Herriman and Fritz Thyssen. Like GranPa like Son like GrandSon. All BUSTED but unindicted and unpunished for crimes.

Nice work if you can get it.

All this has very little to do with MoveOn as is plain.

Jeb and W like Nixon thought all was in hand too in 1972 but Nixon bombed it and so have the Bu$hes.

Keep dreaming NEOCONS. Katrina, Lies for War and saber rattling to Iran - keep it up over estimate your position.

GOP in 2008? Not in even Tim's dreams.

The GOP isn't going to hold the House or Senate in 2006 as they know but refuse to admit.

Ya blew it LOSERS.

Jim

Edited January 28, 2006 by Jim Hackett II

[Terry Mauro]

What a bunch of --sorry, I never use ther language that best fits!

But I will say that the follies of MoveOn help explain why there is a Republican President and a Republican Congress. The farther to the left the Democrat Party moves, the harder it is for the Dems to elect a President. The Clintons understand this (which is why Hilary is doing her best to paint herself as a "moderate"). If the MoveOn people are able to force the Dems to nominate a leftist rather than a moderate for president in 2008, it will help guarantee four more years of a Republican WH.

So I say: go fot it!

**********************************************

"The farther to the left the Democrat Party moves, the harder it is for the Dems to elect a President."

Oh really? I've never considered the Democratic party, let alone MoveOn, to be that far to the Left. At least, not in the same sense as you fascist people have taken the Republican party to the Right. Then again, from what I've observed in recent years especially since 1994, is that of one party two branches. Give it whatever name you wish, but it's surely not the Republican party of my father's, or Eisenhower's.

[Tim Carroll]

Give it whatever name you wish, but it's surely not the Republican party of my father's, or Eisenhower's.

This current bunch makes Nixon look like a bleeding heart liberal. Even Nancy Reagan can't abide these Neo-Confederates. The South Shall Rise Again, indeed....

T.C.

[Terry Mauro]

Give it whatever name you wish, but it's surely not the Republican party of my father's, or Eisenhower's.

This current bunch makes Nixon look like a bleeding heart liberal. Even Nancy Reagan can't abide these Neo-Confederates. The South Shall Rise Again, indeed....

T.C.

*******************************************

"This current bunch makes Nixon look like a bleeding heart liberal."

You got that right, T.C.!

[Terry Mauro]

To which of us do you refer there Tim?

Ask me if I give a sh*t. Yep I'll use the word

Some worked to empower people as opposed to some that worked to subvert and STEAL the American People's voice to speak to power. It is clear which is which. Your history is known. It shames me to think I served this nation to preserve the freedom of some people. But I did and would again if threats were real and not manufactured to empower an UnAmerican Agenda.

Some have worked in community based kitchens to feed the people abandoned by the GOP, some know the need, some cannot see it - until it is too late. Some know the fruit of the GOP/Gingrich/Reagan/Meese/Bu$h1 and 2.

Some couldn't see it even after it lands on their own head as it surely will - ask the German People.

I will not go quietly into the long dark night of living in a Police State of NEOCONS. This is not yet a Fascist nation and you slandering an idea DOES NOT NEGATE THE POSITION.

Or to put in another way Your failure to be informed doesn't invalidate my position no matter how hard you wish it were so.

But then again I would guess you have never listened to hungry kids crying going to sleep because the GOP cut all help in 1996. An inexcusable event in a nation a wealthy as this one. As is the state of public education currently.

A society and body politic CANNOT ever WORK when based on GREED as the GOP IS. Nor can it last.

The GOP only used to despise the poor but now they have declared war on the poor.

Parallel to events in Nazi Germany aslo financed by Wall Street and GOP powers like Prescott Bu$h and Averill Herriman and Fritz Thyssen. Like GranPa like Son like GrandSon. All BUSTED but unindicted and unpunished for crimes.

Nice work if you can get it.

All this has very little to do with MoveOn as is plain.

Jeb and W like Nixon thought all was in hand too in 1972 but Nixon bombed it and so have the Bu$hes.

Keep dreaming NEOCONS. Katrina, Lies for War and saber rattling to Iran - keep it up over estimate your position.

GOP in 2008? Not in even Tim's dreams.

The GOP isn't going to hold the House or Senate in 2006 as they know but refuse to admit.

Ya blew it LOSERS.

Jim

******************************************************

"I will not go quietly into the long dark night of living in a Police State of NEOCONS. This is not yet a Fascist nation and you slandering an idea DOES NOT NEGATE THE POSITION."

To which I will add:

"Don't Take Me Alive"

Agents of the law

Luckless pedestrian

I know you're out there

With rage in your eyes and your megaphones

Saying all is forgiven

Mad Dog surrender

How can I answer

A man of my mind can do anything

[Chorus:]

I'm a bookkeeper's son

I don't want to shoot no one

Well I crossed my old man back in Oregon

Don't take me alive

Got a case of dynamite

I could hold out here all night

Yes I crossed my old man back in Oregon

Don't take me alive

Can you hear the evil crowd

The lies and the laughter

I hear my inside

The mechanized hum of another world

Where no sun is shining

No red light flashing

Here in this darkness

I know what I've done

I know all at once who I am

[Chorus]

All songs by Walter Becker and Donald Fagen

************************************************

THE ROYAL SCAM

And they wandered in

From the city of St. John

Without a dime

Wearing coats that shined

Both red and green

Colors from their sunny island

From their boats of iron

They looked upon the promised land

Where surely life was sweet

On the rising tide

To New York City

Did they ride into the street

See the glory

Of the royal scam

They are hounded down

To the bottom of a bad town

Amid the ruins

Where they learn to fear

An angry race of fallen kings

Their dark companions

While the memory of

Their southern sky was clouded by

A savage winter

Every patron saint

Hung on the wall, shared the room

With twenty sinners

See the glory

Of the royal scam

By the blackened wall

He does it all

He thinks he's died and gone to heaven

Now the tale is told

By the old man back home

He reads the letter

How they are paid in gold

Just to babble in the back room

All night and waste their time

And they wandered in

From the city of St. John without a dime

See the glory

Of the royal scam

All songs by Walter Becker and Donald Fagen

[Pat Speer]

What a bunch of --sorry, I never use ther language that best fits!

But I will say that the follies of MoveOn help explain why there is a Republican President and a Republican Congress. The farther to the left the Democrat Party moves, the harder it is for the Dems to elect a President. The Clintons understand this (which is why Hilary is doing her best to paint herself as a "moderate"). If the MoveOn people are able to force the Dems to nominate a leftist rather than a moderate for president in 2008, it will help guarantee four more years of a Republican WH.

So I say: go fot it!

Tim, it works both ways. If the neocons continue with what they're doing, they are gonna lose the center and a ton of elephants are gonna jump out of the pen. It could be the election of 64 all over again.

The brightest hope I see for the elephants is McCain, and then only if he picks a moderate running mate and disavows Bush.

If the elephants kill Roe v. Wade they'll lose the vote of women for the foreseeable future, much as civil rights cost the Dems the southern vote in the sixties.

[Frank Agbat]

What a bunch of --sorry, I never use ther language that best fits!

But I will say that the follies of MoveOn help explain why there is a Republican President and a Republican Congress. The farther to the left the Democrat Party moves, the harder it is for the Dems to elect a President. The Clintons understand this (which is why Hilary is doing her best to paint herself as a "moderate"). If the MoveOn people are able to force the Dems to nominate a leftist rather than a moderate for president in 2008, it will help guarantee four more years of a Republican WH.

So I say: go fot it!

Tim, it works both ways. If the neocons continue with what they're doing, they are gonna lose the center and a ton of elephants are gonna jump out of the pen. It could be the election of 64 all over again.

The brightest hope I see for the elephants is McCain, and then only if he picks a moderate running mate and disavows Bush.

If the elephants kill Roe v. Wade they'll lose the vote of women for the foreseeable future, much as civil rights cost the Dems the southern vote in the sixties.

I rarely enter into the political fray on this forum, and will probably end up regretting this post... I think the political venom that flows on this forum is often counter-productive in achieving the ultimate goal: Solving the assassination of JFK. Anyway...

Pat makes a good point here.

To me, it seems like the two major parties are *both* diverging from the mythical "center" of the left-right political spectrum. Yet, both major parties show no sign of moving away from a "fed-heavy" "statist" mentality (spend, spend, spend, ignore the constitution when it comes to state's rights vs. federal, spend).

I'm a confirmed Libertarian (note -- NOT a 'Libertarian Socialist'), which tends to put me in a position where I can provide more neutral observations where others are deep into a passionate argument about something in which they believe. I have left-leaning views on some things (personal freedoms, privacy, etc), and right-leaning views on others (fiscal responsibility, personal responsibility). This tends to freak-out traditional hard-line party politics types (of either party), incidentally. Great fun at parties!

What I see is the right moving to the fringe areas of their own supporters -- as Pat noted. Not everyone who votes conservative is a "NeoCon" or a member of the "religious right." The current administration has lost touch with those of us that are fiscal conservatives by spending like a drunken sailor. They have lost touch with those of us that want principled politicians. (They spend a lot of time talking the talk, and little time walking the walk. You know -- the type that go to church on Sunday and put on an epic presentation of their pious righteousness, and then go out Monday and do everything they railed against just 24 hours previously).

The left, on the other hand, would *seemingly* seem poised to make gains, yet their inability to develop a more consistent message that resonates with the middle of the country looks like it might limit this. They have adopted a polarized position (undoubtedly in response to the polarization thrown at them by the right), embracing nearly every cause and position that opposes the current administration, regardless of whether that position will sit well, morally or otherwise, with the red or purple states.

If McCain is able to shake off the (perceived or otherwise) ties to the current administration, he may have a message that resonates well in "purple" areas. This country never spends too much time on either end of our (rather limited, in reality, when compared to the rest of the world) political spectrum. The pendulum will inevitably swing leftward at some point -- just when, how fast, and how far is the question.

So, I won't be spending any time at moveon.org OR moveoff.org... My plug is for: http://lp.org

[John Simkin]

This is just another example of Tim Gratz's right-wing extremist views. The idea that the Democratic Party is left-wing is ridiculous. One of the problems in America is that the only two political parties with any chance of governing are on the right. The same is true of the UK. That is why it is so difficult to persuade people to vote in elections. When this happens, democracy ceases to function.

The last honest Republican president was Dwight Eisenhower. Here is an extract from his last speech as president. (17th January, 1961)

Three days from now, after half a century in the service of our country, I shall lay down the responsibilities of office as, in traditional and solemn ceremony, the authority of the Presidency is vested in my successor.

This evening I come to you with a message of leave-taking and farewell, and to share a few final thoughts with you, my countrymen...

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence - economic, political, even spiritual - is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

It should be remembered that in the original draft he wrote the "military-industrial-congressional complex". He was pressurized into removing the word "congressional". Who was the head of this group in Congress? Who was the man who organized these government contracts for companies like Brown & Root (Halliburton), Betchel-McCone, Bell Helicopters, etc.? Lyndon Baines Johnson.

[Tim Carroll]

The last honest Republican president was Dwight Eisenhower. Here is an extract from his last speech as president. (17th January, 1961)Three days from now, after half a century in the service of our country, I shall lay down the responsibilities of office as, in traditional and solemn ceremony, the authority of the Presidency is vested in my successor.... This evening I come to you with a message of leave-taking and farewell, and to share a few final thoughts with you, my countrymen... In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

Eisenhower's farewell address warning against the unwarranted influence of the military industrial complex is one of the great modern presidential statements. But this statement came from what is called "retirement wisdom," which can speak to truth the way no active politician can afford to do. Eisenhower had built a massive nuclear arsenal while knowing from the U-2 flights that it was strategically unwarranted. His dream of cashing in with a beneficial peace through strength, to be codified at the Paris Summit, was betrayed and destroyed.

In America, the historically entrenched perception that liberals are ill-equipped to wage war led directly to every Senate Democrat with presidential aspirations voting to authorize Bush's Iraq aggression. No "peace candidate" has been viable since Bobby Kennedy's murder, and liberals find themselves trapped by this framework. They constantly have to overcompensate to prove they are not soft. The Republicans have good reason to continue to hope that American voters will never ultimately elect a president who isn't a saber rattler.

T.C.

[Tim Gratz]

I think both Pat's post and Frank's post were well-taken.

It has long been an observation of political scientists that the majority of political activists within a party (at least since 1964) tend to be ideologically-driven and more liberal or conservative than the "swing" voters. I was recently reading an excellent book on the 1968 election ("An American Melodrama") and it makes a point that Ronald Reagan made a very serious attempt to wrest the nomination from Richard Nixon. Nixon had to make herculean efforts (with assistance from Strom Thurmond) to prevent the Reagan forces from eroding his support in the Southern states. But in the general election Nixon had to appeal to the great "center": the swing voters who are not ideologically driven. (Ironically, the "swing" or "undecided" voters are often the least informed politically.) The same thing was true with Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

Interesting that John Simkin thinks that my idea that the Democrat Party is "left-wing" is ridiculous. From John's perspective as a socialist, that may indeed be true. But that comment demonstrates what little understanding John has of the American electorate. The partisans in the Democrat Party are far to the left of the American public (and I would agree with Pat that there are partisans in the Republican Party that are far to the right of the American public.)

I agree with Frank's point that President Bush is certainly not a fiscal conservative. I appreciated Frank's exposition of his political philosophy. Although I am sure I would not agree with Frank's position on several issues, it is clear that he has put much thought into his position. I am sure it is almost always true that, for a thoughtful person, one hardly finds a presidential candidate whose views are totally consistent with his or her own. Often the choice may come down to which candidate is closer to your views on most of the issues (or on the issues that are most important to you).

IMO, the issue of greatest importance to most Americans right now is protecting the security of the country from terrorist attacks. If the Democrats cede this issue to the Republicans, they will forfeit any chance of recapturing the White House.

[John Simkin]

I'm a confirmed Libertarian (note -- NOT a 'Libertarian Socialist'), which tends to put me in a position where I can provide more neutral observations where others are deep into a passionate argument about something in which they believe. I have left-leaning views on some things (personal freedoms, privacy, etc), and right-leaning views on others (fiscal responsibility, personal responsibility). This tends to freak-out traditional hard-line party politics types (of either party), incidentally. Great fun at parties!

What I see is the right moving to the fringe areas of their own supporters -- as Pat noted. Not everyone who votes conservative is a "NeoCon" or a member of the "religious right." The current administration has lost touch with those of us that are fiscal conservatives by spending like a drunken sailor. They have lost touch with those of us that want principled politicians. (They spend a lot of time talking the talk, and little time walking the walk. You know -- the type that go to church on Sunday and put on an epic presentation of their pious righteousness, and then go out Monday and do everything they railed against just 24 hours previously).

My plug is for: http://lp.org

I am on the libertarian left. I agree with most of the policies posted on this website. Where I tend to disagree with American libertarians is the issue of progressive income tax. This is the most effective strategy for redistributing wealth and power currently available in capitalist societies. Wealth and power are inextricably linked. You cannot redistribute power without redistributing wealth.

I also support your views on fiscal and personal responsibility. One of the great myths is that right-wing governments are in favour of reduced government spending. I know they always say they are (Ronald Reagan, George Bush, etc.) but they never deliver. The main reason is that the corporations who provide the funding for their political campaigns, are in favour of increased spending in certain areas. They are in fact after the government contracts on defence spending, etc. The money that corporations give to politicians is seen as a business expense, not some form of charity.

[Tim Gratz]

John, believe it or not, I agree with the thrust of your second paragraph.