Marrion Baker, Lone Ranger extraordinaire

[Ed O'Hagan]

The text of Officer Marrion Baker's statement to the Warren Commission can be found at

My Webpage.

What strikes me as being beyond belief, is why he never was asked at anytime to explain why he took it upon himself to storm into such a large building as the TSBD without requesting backup support from his fellow officers. Nor did he report to anyone in the DPD as to what he had heard and seen. Had he acted appropriately, the building could have been immediately sealed off. Very strange behavior, indeed... and even stranger that he was not asked to explain it.

And then there is this concerning Officer Martin:

Mr. CARR -I am referring to the people who were out there at the time of the shooting. Did you have a chance during that day to talk with any of them or did you overhear any conversations that might be material to the investigation here?

Mr. BAKER - The only ones that I talked to would be the solo officers who were around him.

Mr. DULLES - Around whom?

Mr. BAKER - Around the President's car at that time.

Mr. DULLES - What was the nature of those conversations?

Mr. BAKER - Well, we just were discussing, each one of us had a theory, you know where, how it happened, and really none of us knew how it happened, it just happened, and where they was at in place, you know, in reference to the car, would be about the only thing they could say, and at the time the first shot they didn't know where the shot came from.

The second shot they still didn't know, and then the third shot some of them over to the left-hand side, the blood and everything hit their helmets and their windshields and then they knew it had to come from behind.

Mr. BELIN - Say this again, Officer Baker. When you say some were on the left-hand side?

Mr. BAKER - Yes, I believe Officer B. J. Martin---

Mr. BELIN - Is he a motorcycle policeman?

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; he is.

Mr. BELIN - On a one- or two-wheeler or three-wheeler?

Mr. BAKER - He is a solo motorcycle, two-wheeler.

Mr. BELIN - Where was he riding at this time?

Mr. BAKER - He was on the left front.

Mr. BELIN - Of what?

Mr. BAKER - There were five motorcycle officers in front. There were four, two on each right side behind.

Mr. BELIN - When you say in front and behind of what vehicle?

Mr. BAKER - We are referring to the President's car.

Mr. BELIN - All right. He was on the front and to the left of the President's car.

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; that is right.

Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you about blood or something?

Mr. BAKER - Like I say, we were talking about where the shot came from, and he said the first shot he couldn't figure it Out where it came from. He turned his head backward, reflex, you know, and then he turned back and the second shot came off, and then the third shot is when the blood and everything hit his helmet and his windshield.

Mr. BELIN - Did it hit the inside or the outside of his windshield, did he say?

Mr. BAKER - It hit all this inside. Now, as far as the inside or outside of the windshield. I don't know about that. But it was all on the right-hand side of his helmet.

Mr. BELIN - Of his helmet?

Mr. BAKER - On his uniform also.

Mr. BELIN - On his uniform.

Mr. BAKER - That is right.

Mr. BELIN - And he was riding to the left of the President and you say ahead of the President?

Mr. BAKER - On the left-hand side.

Mr. DULLES - But a little ahead of him?

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. They were immediately in front of the car.

[Chuck Robbins]

The text of Officer Marrion Baker's statement to the Warren Commission can be found at

My Webpage.

What strikes me as being beyond belief, is why he never was asked at anytime to explain why he took it upon himself to storm into such a large building as the TSBD without requesting backup support from his fellow officers. Nor did he report to anyone in the DPD as to what he had heard and seen. Had he acted appropriately, the building could have been immediately sealed off. Very strange behavior, indeed... and even stranger that he was not asked to explain it.

And then there is this concerning Officer Martin:

Mr. CARR -I am referring to the people who were out there at the time of the shooting. Did you have a chance during that day to talk with any of them or did you overhear any conversations that might be material to the investigation here?

Mr. BAKER - The only ones that I talked to would be the solo officers who were around him.

Mr. DULLES - Around whom?

Mr. BAKER - Around the President's car at that time.

Mr. DULLES - What was the nature of those conversations?

Mr. BAKER - Well, we just were discussing, each one of us had a theory, you know where, how it happened, and really none of us knew how it happened, it just happened, and where they was at in place, you know, in reference to the car, would be about the only thing they could say, and at the time the first shot they didn't know where the shot came from.

The second shot they still didn't know, and then the third shot some of them over to the left-hand side, the blood and everything hit their helmets and their windshields and then they knew it had to come from behind.

Mr. BELIN - Say this again, Officer Baker. When you say some were on the left-hand side?

Mr. BAKER - Yes, I believe Officer B. J. Martin---

Mr. BELIN - Is he a motorcycle policeman?

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; he is.

Mr. BELIN - On a one- or two-wheeler or three-wheeler?

Mr. BAKER - He is a solo motorcycle, two-wheeler.

Mr. BELIN - Where was he riding at this time?

Mr. BAKER - He was on the left front.

Mr. BELIN - Of what?

Mr. BAKER - There were five motorcycle officers in front. There were four, two on each right side behind.

Mr. BELIN - When you say in front and behind of what vehicle?

Mr. BAKER - We are referring to the President's car.

Mr. BELIN - All right. He was on the front and to the left of the President's car.

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; that is right.

Mr. BELIN - What did he say to you about blood or something?

Mr. BAKER - Like I say, we were talking about where the shot came from, and he said the first shot he couldn't figure it Out where it came from. He turned his head backward, reflex, you know, and then he turned back and the second shot came off, and then the third shot is when the blood and everything hit his helmet and his windshield.

Mr. BELIN - Did it hit the inside or the outside of his windshield, did he say?

Mr. BAKER - It hit all this inside. Now, as far as the inside or outside of the windshield. I don't know about that. But it was all on the right-hand side of his helmet.

Mr. BELIN - Of his helmet?

Mr. BAKER - On his uniform also.

Mr. BELIN - On his uniform.

Mr. BAKER - That is right.

Mr. BELIN - And he was riding to the left of the President and you say ahead of the President?

Mr. BAKER - On the left-hand side.

Mr. DULLES - But a little ahead of him?

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. They were immediately in front of the car.

Many of the stories told by eyewitnesses have descriptions of events not seen in any film or photographs.

Many witnesses describe JFK as standing and waving at the time the shooting started.

Another witness mentions seeing a nickel plated gun inside of the limousine.

Another mentions someone shooting back. Shooting back at who is left out of the statement.

Lots of things don't add up or make sense. It drives me up the wall trying to make sense of the various descriptions given of this one event.

Chuck

[Chuck Robbins]

This is kind of off topic, but related.

LHO would have brought his pistol to work with him if he had planned to kill anyone that day. I say this because it just seems unrealistic to think that an assassin, set on killing the President, would not have brought a sidearm along, to effect an escape, in case he was confronted while escaping.

If you take the Commissions point of view, that LHO was a stone cold killer, willing to kill Tippit, why in the world did he not have his pistol handy to kill Baker with?

I just can't shake the feeling that LHO never owned a pistol, much less a rifle.

When I read military plans, such as Northwoods, in which they describe providing documentary evidence to support their phony claims against foreign countries, it isn't that much of a reach to think the same thing would have been done in a situation such as this, if there was any involvement on their part in the killing of JFK.

I expect to hear boos and hisses for this point of view, but, it's a gut feeling that I can't ignore.

Chuck

[Guest Stephen Turner]

.

I expect to hear boos and hisses for this point of view, but, it's a gut feeling that I can't ignore.

Chuck

No boo's from me Chuck, we are asked to believe that Oswald goes out to assassinate JFK, and defend himself from return fire armed with one "pacifists" rifle, with defective scope, and three,yes, three bullets.It Stinks to high heaven.

[Jim Root]

This is kind of off topic, but related.

LHO would have brought his pistol to work with him if he had planned to kill anyone that day. I say this because it just seems unrealistic to think that an assassin, set on killing the President, would not have brought a sidearm along, to effect an escape, in case he was confronted while escaping.

If you take the Commissions point of view, that LHO was a stone cold killer, willing to kill Tippit, why in the world did he not have his pistol handy to kill Baker with?

I just can't shake the feeling that LHO never owned a pistol, much less a rifle.

When I read military plans, such as Northwoods, in which they describe providing documentary evidence to support their phony claims against foreign countries, it isn't that much of a reach to think the same thing would have been done in a situation such as this, if there was any involvement on their part in the killing of JFK.

I expect to hear boos and hisses for this point of view, but, it's a gut feeling that I can't ignore.

Chuck

Chuck

The Warren Commission answer to your question is very simple. Oswald went to work that day after staying the night at the Paine residence where his rifle was located. Pistol was at his apartment and retrieved after the assassination. This according to the Warren Commission.

Jim Root

[Lee Forman]

On November 30th, FBI Agent Alan Manning interviewed Mrs. Evelyn Harris. In his summary of that interview, he wrote:

the daughter of Mrs. Lucy Lopez, a white woman married to a Mexican, worked at a sewing room across the street from the TSBD. Her daughter and some of the other girls knew Lee Harvey Oswald and also were acquainted with Jack Ruby. They observed Jack Ruby give Oswald a pistol when Oswald came out of the building.

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : HSCA

RECORD NUMBER : 180-10083-10277

RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES

AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 005590

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : WC

FROM : FBI

TO : [No To]

TITLE : [No Title]

DATE : 12/01/1963

PAGES : 1

DOCUMENT TYPE : REPORT

SUBJECTS : HARRIS, EVELYN; LOPEZ, LUCY; OSWALD, LEE, ACTIVITIES

OF NOVEMBER 22-24, 1963; RUBY, JACK, ACTIVITIES OF

NOV. 22-24, 1963

CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED

RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL

CURRENT STATUS : OPEN

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 06/04/1993

COMMENTS : Box 115.

Seems much more logical.

[Duke Lane]

On November 30th, FBI Agent Alan Manning interviewed Mrs. Evelyn Harris. In his summary of that interview, he wrote:

the daughter of Mrs. Lucy Lopez, a white woman married to a Mexican, worked at a sewing room across the street from the TSBD. Her daughter and some of the other girls knew Lee Harvey Oswald and also were acquainted with Jack Ruby. They observed Jack Ruby give Oswald a pistol when Oswald came out of the building.

Seems much more logical.

Too bad they didn't say where - or which way - LHO went after getting this pistol, or where or when he came out of the building. It's also confusing: who's the "white woman married to a Mexican," Mrs. Lucy Lopez or her daughter? And whose daughter knew both LHO and JR, Lucy Lopez's daughter, or Lucy Lopez's daughter's daughter?

If this is all so, why would LHO have supposedly stopped by his rooming house if he already had "his" gun? Just for a change of clothes? Doesn't seem like the time to be fastidious to me!

[Lee Forman]

On November 30th, FBI Agent Alan Manning interviewed Mrs. Evelyn Harris. In his summary of that interview, he wrote:

the daughter of Mrs. Lucy Lopez, a white woman married to a Mexican, worked at a sewing room across the street from the TSBD. Her daughter and some of the other girls knew Lee Harvey Oswald and also were acquainted with Jack Ruby. They observed Jack Ruby give Oswald a pistol when Oswald came out of the building.

Seems much more logical.

Too bad they didn't say where - or which way - LHO went after getting this pistol, or where or when he came out of the building. It's also confusing: who's the "white woman married to a Mexican," Mrs. Lucy Lopez or her daughter? And whose daughter knew both LHO and JR, Lucy Lopez's daughter, or Lucy Lopez's daughter's daughter?

If this is all so, why would LHO have supposedly stopped by his rooming house if he already had "his" gun? Just for a change of clothes? Doesn't seem like the time to be fastidious to me!

Hey Duke.

Yes - the details seem ridiculous, making the story seem far fetched - however, perhaps that is the intent. 'A white woman married to a Mexican' - and the relevance of that fact bearing on her statement is?

Anyway, from the Fritz notes it appears that LHO changed his pants. I often wonder what the hell he was up to - he appears to admit having a gun on his person when he entered the Texas theatre [if we can trust the notes] - but it doesn't seem set in stone that he would have picked up the weapon from the boarding house. And it also begs the question about the bad firing pin. In the Life article I posted, Maurice Captor Of Oswald MacDonald says something odd about having the hammer snap between the webbing of his fingers. What is he trying to say? Is it a bad firing pin, or is MacDonald a supercop? Didn't Wade get it right? Seems to me that if it was a mail-order, with the number of times 'Oswald' allegedly went to the firing range, that the pistol would be in superior working order - at least, that would seem logical. Of course, the sporterized mauser would have to be located....but anyway. More likely scenario, given the theory that Oswald is being handled, is that he is provided with a bad weapon. That way, he pulls the weapon and is shot and killed - open and shut case. We wouldn't need MacDonald to tell us how he shoved the gun into Oswald's belly and would have fired if it hadn't been out of fear of penetrating his body and the seatback and injuring one of his fellow officers - Oswald would be dead. I like this scenario - things fell apart, and didn't go according to plan, which is why Ruby was then on the hotseat.

Let's consider some of the construct as a possible theory. We've got a man that shoots Tippit repeatedly. He heads for the shelter of the nearby Abundant Life Temple. In the meanwhile, Oswald is discovered in the Texas Theatre. He's not just the man who may have shot Kennedy - a man a lot of folks wanted dead anyway - he just shot a cop, and one of their own. Blood is boiling. From the cops I know - that is the unforgiveable sin.

- lee

[J. Raymond Carroll]

If this is all so, why would LHO have supposedly stopped by his rooming house if he already had "his" gun? Just for a change of clothes? Doesn't seem like the time to be fastidious to me!

Debra Conway has posted an interesting article on Lancer about Gladys Johnson's granddaughter, Patricia Puckett Hall:

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.p...ing_type=search

Ms. Hall does not believe that Lee kept the revolver at the rooming house, because her grandmother and the maid would have found it. However I seem to recall that a holster for the revolver WAS found at Beckley, and presumably that was a surprise to Gladys Johnson

[Duke Lane]

Debra Conway has posted an interesting article on Lancer about Gladys Johnson's granddaughter, Patricia Puckett Hall:

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.p...ing_type=search

Ms. Hall does not believe that Lee kept the revolver at the rooming house, because her grandmother and the maid would have found it. However I seem to recall that a holster for the revolver WAS found at Beckley, and presumably that was a surprise to Gladys Johnson

The article was published in Sunday's (3/12/06) Dallas Morning News supplement. Interesting, isn't it? Of course, she was just a pup back then, and the world is much different through a child's eyes....

[Lee Forman]

Debra Conway has posted an interesting article on Lancer about Gladys Johnson's granddaughter, Patricia Puckett Hall:

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.p...ing_type=search

Ms. Hall does not believe that Lee kept the revolver at the rooming house, because her grandmother and the maid would have found it. However I seem to recall that a holster for the revolver WAS found at Beckley, and presumably that was a surprise to Gladys Johnson

The article was published in Sunday's (3/12/06) Dallas Morning News supplement. Interesting, isn't it? Of course, she was just a pup back then, and the world is much different through a child's eyes....

There is of course the theory that Oswald was to have been transported from Dallas to Cuba, by way of Mexico. It may have been a simple matter of picking up some ID not normally carried on a daily basis - like the Selective Service card for Hidell. That's speculation, of course, but would make more sense possibly. It also occurs to me that Oswald was maintaining his cover throughout the questioning - so he wasn't in a position to be honest and open about his activities or whom he may have been working with.

More on the gun - I hadn't realized Oswald ordered it COD to a Post Office box. Now that's a neat trick.

- lee

[Duke Lane]

Debra Conway has posted an interesting article on Lancer about Gladys Johnson's granddaughter, Patricia Puckett Hall:

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.p...ing_type=search

Ms. Hall does not believe that Lee kept the revolver at the rooming house, because her grandmother and the maid would have found it. However I seem to recall that a holster for the revolver WAS found at Beckley, and presumably that was a surprise to Gladys Johnson

The article was published in Sunday's (3/12/06) Dallas Morning News supplement. Interesting, isn't it? Of course, she was just a pup back then, and the world is much different through a child's eyes....

There is of course the theory that Oswald was to have been transported from Dallas to Cuba, by way of Mexico. It may have been a simple matter of picking up some ID not normally carried on a daily basis - like the Selective Service card for Hidell. That's speculation, of course, but would make more sense possibly. It also occurs to me that Oswald was maintaining his cover throughout the questioning - so he wasn't in a position to be honest and open about his activities or whom he may have been working with.

More on the gun - I hadn't realized Oswald ordered it COD to a Post Office box. Now that's a neat trick.

- lee

Sometime earlier in 1963, there was an incident of a cache of guns being stolen from the armory at Terrell, some 30-40 miles east of Dallas. The perps somehow managed to catch the attention of the police and were chased at high speeds into the downtown streets of Dallas, where they promptly wrapped their new Chevy around a light pole or something.

I don't have much in the line of specifics on this incident, but the theoretical extension of this - and I stress that it is just a theory - that Lee Oswald was taking part in an operation that was to prove that people could order surplus military weaponry through the mails without repercussion (such as losing a new Chevy!).

The theory fits well enough with the known facts ... and could even potentially explain how someone else got a hold of "Lee's" guns to use in the commission of the crimes ... if it were more than a theory!

[Lee Forman]

Sometime earlier in 1963, there was an incident of a cache of guns being stolen from the armory at Terrell, some 30-40 miles east of Dallas. The perps somehow managed to catch the attention of the police and were chased at high speeds into the downtown streets of Dallas, where they promptly wrapped their new Chevy around a light pole or something.

I don't have much in the line of specifics on this incident, but the theoretical extension of this - and I stress that it is just a theory - that Lee Oswald was taking part in an operation that was to prove that people could order surplus military weaponry through the mails without repercussion (such as losing a new Chevy!).

The theory fits well enough with the known facts ... and could even potentially explain how someone else got a hold of "Lee's" guns to use in the commission of the crimes ... if it were more than a theory!

Duke,

Well worth reading - the account of John Elrod. The 3400 block on Harry Hines would be about 5 miles away? Harry Hines and the railroad tracks appear to be close to one another [today] at the area of the Trade Mart. Harry Hines continues to within 1/2 a mile of the plaza.

http://www.jfkhistory.com/tramp.html

Elrod said that on the afternoon of Friday Nov. 22, 1963, he was walking on a Dallas street having just heard that President Kennedy had been mortally wounded in Dealey Plaza two miles away. Suddenly, police squad cars pulled up and he was arrested. He soon found himself on the fifth floor of the Dallas jail "for investigation of conspiracy to commit murder," a charge that was later dropped.

- lee

Edited March 14, 2006 by Lee Forman

[Duke Lane]

On November 30th, FBI Agent Alan Manning interviewed Mrs. Evelyn Harris. In his summary of that interview, he wrote:

the daughter of Mrs. Lucy Lopez, a white woman married to a Mexican, worked at a sewing room across the street from the TSBD. Her daughter and some of the other girls knew Lee Harvey Oswald and also were acquainted with Jack Ruby. They observed Jack Ruby give Oswald a pistol when Oswald came out of the building.

Seems much more logical.

Too bad they didn't say where - or which way - LHO went after getting this pistol, or where or when he came out of the building. It's also confusing: who's the "white woman married to a Mexican," Mrs. Lucy Lopez or her daughter? And whose daughter knew both LHO and JR, Lucy Lopez's daughter, or Lucy Lopez's daughter's daughter?

If this is all so, why would LHO have supposedly stopped by his rooming house if he already had "his" gun? Just for a change of clothes? Doesn't seem like the time to be fastidious to me!

Hey Duke.

Yes - the details seem ridiculous, making the story seem far fetched - however, perhaps that is the intent. 'A white woman married to a Mexican' - and the relevance of that fact bearing on her statement is?

It probably has everything to do with being 1963 in the South. You think maybe white women marrying Mexicans was considered "natural" in those days, unworthy of remark? Fib's had many of the same prejudices, no matter how open-minded their Director might have been.

Anyway, from the Fritz notes it appears that LHO changed his pants. I often wonder what the hell he was up to - he appears to admit having a gun on his person when he entered the Texas theatre [if we can trust the notes] - but it doesn't seem set in stone that he would have picked up the weapon from the boarding house.

Key words: "if we can trust the notes." Clearly, we couldn't trust the man who took them since he swore under oath that he didn't take any.

And it also begs the question about the bad firing pin. In the Life article I posted, Maurice Captor Of Oswald MacDonald says something odd about having the hammer snap between the webbing of his fingers. What is he trying to say? Is it a bad firing pin, or is MacDonald a supercop? Didn't Wade get it right? Seems to me that if it was a mail-order, with the number of times 'Oswald' allegedly went to the firing range, that the pistol would be in superior working order - at least, that would seem logical. Of course, the sporterized mauser would have to be located....but anyway. More likely scenario, given the theory that Oswald is being handled, is that he is provided with a bad weapon. That way, he pulls the weapon and is shot and killed - open and shut case. We wouldn't need MacDonald to tell us how he shoved the gun into Oswald's belly and would have fired if it hadn't been out of fear of penetrating his body and the seatback and injuring one of his fellow officers - Oswald would be dead. I like this scenario - things fell apart, and didn't go according to plan, which is why Ruby was then on the hotseat.

... or if the gun worked and McDonald got shot (killed or not): what might've happened then?

Let's consider some of the construct as a possible theory. We've got a man that shoots Tippit repeatedly. He heads for the shelter of the nearby Abundant Life Temple. In the meanwhile, Oswald is discovered in the Texas Theatre. He's not just the man who may have shot Kennedy - a man a lot of folks wanted dead anyway - he just shot a cop, and one of their own. Blood is boiling. From the cops I know - that is the unforgiveable sin.

More on that another time!

[Duke Lane]

Well worth reading - the account of John Elrod. The 3400 block on Harry Hines would be about 5 miles away? Harry Hines and the railroad tracks appear to be close to one another [today] at the area of the Trade Mart. Harry Hines continues to within 1/2 a mile of the plaza.

http://www.jfkhistory.com/tramp.html

Elrod said that on the afternoon of Friday Nov. 22, 1963, he was walking on a Dallas street having just heard that President Kennedy had been mortally wounded in Dealey Plaza two miles away. Suddenly, police squad cars pulled up and he was arrested. He soon found himself on the fifth floor of the Dallas jail "for investigation of conspiracy to commit murder," a charge that was later dropped.

Quote source is Oswald Talked by Ray and Mary LaFontaine, according to the link. See also Perry's site; I don't claim personal knowledge of this whole story, except my gut says "red herring!"

The thumbnail lacks a thumbprint, by the way, leading one to question whether the man in question was able to provide one if he wasn't there ... and if he was there, why didn't anyone get one from him? How does the form itself compare to any of the other arrest reports filed that that day or any other of that era? Same form? Or the one they started using in 1967?