Bill Miller Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Even if Jack is mistaken there's no reason to stoop to the level that you do, the only analogy I can make to how you communicate is that it fit's in rather well with what is passing for civilized debate about profoundly important issues on television news, like the War in Iraq et certera, and that gentleman is NOT a compliment, but an indication of what is wrong with America, if youre too busy hurling insults at your 'opponent' rather than resolution or arriving at a consensus, then you have gridlock. It is a waste of Forum Members time and an unsult to Forum members, intended or not. Please understand that for many of the more serious researchers - Jack's ridiculous claims have caused great dispair in the research community. So much so that both COPA and Lancer refuse to allow Jack to speak at their conferences. But what angers so many people is that people like Jack continue to push their fraudulent claims on the unsuspecting researchers even after they have been shown to be in error. Just look at the 'double talk' response I offered which Jack has seen before ... how many times over the years must Jack hear about this before finally removing his crazy claim from the research community? So it isn't the fact that Jack made a mistake that brings peoples wrath upon him, instead it is his continuation of misleading people after his work has been shown to be in grave error. Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Even if Jack is mistaken there's no reason to stoop to the level that you do, the only analogy I can make to how you communicate is that it fit's in rather well with what is passing for civilized debate about profoundly important issues on television news, like the War in Iraq et certera, and that gentleman is NOT a compliment, but an indication of what is wrong with America, if youre too busy hurling insults at your 'opponent' rather than resolution or arriving at a consensus, then you have gridlock. It is a waste of Forum Members time and an unsult to Forum members, intended or not. Please understand that for many of the more serious researchers - Jack's ridiculous claims have caused great dispair in the research community. So much so that both COPA and Lancer refuse to allow Jack to speak at their conferences. But what angers so many people is that people like Jack continue to push their fraudulent claims on the unsuspecting researchers even after they have been shown to be in error. Just look at the 'double talk' response I offered which Jack has seen before ... how many times over the years must Jack hear about this before finally removing his crazy claim from the research community? So it isn't the fact that Jack made a mistake that brings peoples wrath upon him, instead it is his continuation of misleading people after his work has been shown to be in grave error. Bill Miller I just hate to see the research community in-fighting, I acknowledge your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanet Clark Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 We should all take care that the new GRATZ doesn't get the last word on every thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 Even if Jack is mistaken there's no reason to stoop to the level that you do, the only analogy I can make to how you communicate is that it fit's in rather well with what is passing for civilized debate about profoundly important issues on television news, like the War in Iraq et certera, and that gentleman is NOT a compliment, but an indication of what is wrong with America, if youre too busy hurling insults at your 'opponent' rather than resolution or arriving at a consensus, then you have gridlock. It is a waste of Forum Members time and an unsult to Forum members, intended or not. Please understand that for many of the more serious researchers - Jack's ridiculous claims have caused great dispair in the research community. So much so that both COPA and Lancer refuse to allow Jack to speak at their conferences. But what angers so many people is that people like Jack continue to push their fraudulent claims on the unsuspecting researchers even after they have been shown to be in error. Just look at the 'double talk' response I offered which Jack has seen before ... how many times over the years must Jack hear about this before finally removing his crazy claim from the research community? So it isn't the fact that Jack made a mistake that brings peoples wrath upon him, instead it is his continuation of misleading people after his work has been shown to be in grave error. Bill Miller What a big load of crap. I have been invited many times by John Judge to make presentations at COPA...BUT I NO LONGER MAKE PRESENTATIONS. I have made 2 presentations at COPA. John has never refused to allow me to speak!!!! As for Lancer, I spoke there last time Debra invited me. As a result, I had my car window smashed and a $500 DVD player and $150 sport jacket stolen from the parking lot across from the hotel. Debra has not asked me since that time, and has NEVER REFUSED TO ALLOW ME TO SPEAK!!!!! I have made three or four presentations at Lancer, which all met with enthusiastic reception before anyone ever heard of "Miller". I am sure that IF I ASKED TO BE ON EITHER PROGRAM, I would be give the same consideration as any other researcher, as refusing to allow me to speak would reflect unfavorably on any group which blacklisted me!!! "Miller" is full of xxxx. Jack Here is a photo of the tracks showing closest possible train locations..... See page 350 of "Pictures of the Pain" by Richard Trask. The picture on page 350 was taken the afternoon of the assassination and the RR car is still sitting where it was during the shooting. Bill Miller Thanks, Bill and Peter. You chaps have the advantage over me in knowing that the railyard actually does (or at least did then in 1963) extend behind the Pergola. I still have to wonder though if what Jack things is a train actually is -- that is, would it appear that big and that tall, given that the rail tracks are some distance of yards behind the Pergola and the shot of the Pergola is taken somewhat from below the rail tracks and the Pergola not level with them. Jack, yes technically not a train if it was just three Pullman cars, although your topic title does say "Where is that train in the window?" and if they were, as you say, moving, that would be tantamount to a train, wouldn't it??? Chris A "train" has a locomotive. It can still be a "train" with the locomotive disconnected, as these three Pullman cars, but it cannot go anywhere until reattached to a choo-choo, can it? Splitting hairs over word definitions is not research, is it? It is like a train without a locomotive. Contribute something positive, or hop the next freight out of town. But make sure a locomotive is attached. Jack Hi Jack Fair enough, Jack. I find your photographic queries interesting and I simply wish to question you in a polite manner, I hope, compared to the dismissive posts of your opponents, in an attempt to get to the truth and to see if you may be on to something. Okay? Chris OK, Chris. But it does not advance research to split hairs over whether "train cars" constitute a "train". What's the point? One Pullman car is NOT a train. THREE Pullman cars coupled together COULD be said to be a train. WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE, other than an excuse to make a personal attack? Jack "Miller's photographic knowledge is abyssmal. A CAMERA LENS DOES NOT MAGNIFY MORE DISTANT OBJECTS". A lens captures the scene it sees. It does not magnify anything more than anything else. According to the focal length, a lens determines only the cropping of an image. Whatever a lens may "magnify", it "magnifies everything equally", like binoculars or a telescope. It never MAGNIFIES SELECTIVELY as "Miller" misinforms. And he pretends to know photography. Jack Jack, I am not going to argue with a senile old man. Alfred Hitchcock used the foreshortening effect in many of his movies. In vertigo when Jimmy Stewart was having a vertigo attack - Jimmy stayed the same size while the background was growing larger - that is one example of something that you just said does not exist. The "Foreshortening effect" can be researched on the Internet by doing a simple google search. "Images taken with long telephoto lenses exhibit a characteristic perspective distortion known as compression of space. Objects that are actually far apart appear unusually close together, and observed texture gradients and optic flows impart a distorted sense of orientation and depth." Bill Miller Hitchcock used a filming technique called a dolly zoom to achieve the "vertigo effect": "The dolly zoom is an unsettling in-camera special effect that appears to undermine normal visual perception in film. The effect is achieved by using the setting of a zoom lens to adjust the field of view while the camera dollies (or moves) towards or away from the subject in such a way as to keep the subject the same size in the frame throughout. In its classic form, the camera is pulled away from a subject whilst the lens zooms in, or vice-versa. Thus, during the zoom, there is a continuous perspective distortion, the most directly noticeable feature being that the background appears to change size relative to the subject. As the human visual system uses both size and perspective cues to judge the relative sizes of objects, seeing a perspective change without a size change is a highly unsettling effect, and the emotional impact of this effect is greater than the description above can suggest. The visual appearance for the viewer is that either the background suddenly grows in size and detail overwhelming the foreground; or the foreground becomes immense and dominates its previous setting. Which of these two apparent effects predominates depends on which way the dolly zoom occurs. The effect was invented by Irmin Roberts, a Paramount second-unit cameraman, and was famously used by Alfred Hitchcock in his film Vertigo, although it appeared earlier at the climax to his film Spellbound." Nobody in Dealey Plaza used the "dolly zoom". Jack Thank you for confirming for all of us that you were full of crap when you said.. " No known lens can stay in focus in the foreground and have the background zoom." Now try dealing with the rest of your mistakes detailed in post 29. I repeat: " No known lens can stay in focus in the foreground and have the background zoom." It was the dolly used by Hitchcock, not the lens, which provided the Vertigo effect. There were no dollies in Dealey Plaza. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 (edited) I repeat:" No known lens can stay in focus in the foreground and have the background zoom." It was the dolly used by Hitchcock, not the lens, which provided the Vertigo effect. There were no dollies in Dealey Plaza. Jack You can repete it until the cows come home White, its not going to make it true. Did they use a LENS on the dolly camera? Of course they did, another "Jack White Impossible" thats totally possible. Now deal with the REST of your mistakes as detailed in post 29. Edited August 23, 2006 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 What a big load of crap. I have been invited many times by John Judge to make presentations at COPA...BUT I NO LONGER MAKE PRESENTATIONS. I have made 2 presentations at COPA. John has never refused to allow me to speak!!!! As for Lancer, I spoke there last time Debra invited me. As a result, I had my car window smashed and a $500 DVD player and $150 sport jacket stolen from the parking lot across from the hotel. Debra has not asked me since that time, and has NEVER REFUSED TO ALLOW ME TO SPEAK!!!!! I have made three or four presentations at Lancer, which all met with enthusiastic reception before anyone ever heard of "Miller". I am sure that IF I ASKED TO BE ON EITHER PROGRAM, I would be give the same consideration as any other researcher, as refusing to allow me to speak would reflect unfavorably on any group which blacklisted me!!! "Miller" is full of xxxx. Jack Jack, I wasn't going to put anyone on the spot, but you leave me no choice. Yes, you used to be invited to speak at those conferences, but when you started in with all those bogus alteration claims - the people who put those conferences on have said that they will never allow you to speak in front of their crowds again. I was present during one of those conversations and heard it with my own ears. Since that date you have never been asked to speak in Dallas again .... END OF STORY! Bill Miller You can repete it until the cows come home White, its not going to make it true.Did they use a LENS on the dolly camera? Of course they did, another "Jack White Impossible" thats totally possible. Now deal with the REST of your mistakes as detailed in post 29. Yeh, only Jack would tell us that a camera lens cannot make objects further away look much closer to the camera than they really are ... especially when we have several assassination photos showing a train car that is clear across the RR yard looking as if it is parked just behind the fence. I then posted such a photo of a statue whereas a building that is a block away looks like it is just beyond the statue, but who cares - Jack says it cannot happen. Move over David, we now have 'Baghdad Bob Jack White' in the house! Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 What a big load of crap. I have been invited many times by John Judge to make presentations at COPA...BUT I NO LONGER MAKE PRESENTATIONS. I have made 2 presentations at COPA. John has never refused to allow me to speak!!!! As for Lancer, I spoke there last time Debra invited me. As a result, I had my car window smashed and a $500 DVD player and $150 sport jacket stolen from the parking lot across from the hotel. Debra has not asked me since that time, and has NEVER REFUSED TO ALLOW ME TO SPEAK!!!!! I have made three or four presentations at Lancer, which all met with enthusiastic reception before anyone ever heard of "Miller". I am sure that IF I ASKED TO BE ON EITHER PROGRAM, I would be give the same consideration as any other researcher, as refusing to allow me to speak would reflect unfavorably on any group which blacklisted me!!! "Miller" is full of xxxx. Jack Jack, I wasn't going to put anyone on the spot, but you leave me no choice. Yes, you used to be invited to speak at those conferences, but when you started in with all those bogus alteration claims - the people who put those conferences on have said that they will never allow you to speak in front of their crowds again. I was present during one of those conversations and heard it with my own ears. Since that date you have never been asked to speak in Dallas again .... END OF STORY! Bill Miller You can repete it until the cows come home White, its not going to make it true.Did they use a LENS on the dolly camera? Of course they did, another "Jack White Impossible" thats totally possible. Now deal with the REST of your mistakes as detailed in post 29. Yeh, only Jack would tell us that a camera lens cannot make objects further away look much closer to the camera than they really are ... especially when we have several assassination photos showing a train car that is clear across the RR yard looking as if it is parked just behind the fence. I then posted such a photo of a statue whereas a building that is a block away looks like it is just beyond the statue, but who cares - Jack says it cannot happen. Move over David, we now have 'Baghdad Bob Jack White' in the house! Bill Miller I just wanted to make sure you didn't get the last word Bill LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Diabo Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 What a big load of crap. I have been invited many times by John Judge to make presentations at COPA...BUT I NO LONGER MAKE PRESENTATIONS. I have made 2 presentations at COPA. John has never refused to allow me to speak!!!! As for Lancer, I spoke there last time Debra invited me. As a result, I had my car window smashed and a $500 DVD player and $150 sport jacket stolen from the parking lot across from the hotel. Debra has not asked me since that time, and has NEVER REFUSED TO ALLOW ME TO SPEAK!!!!! I have made three or four presentations at Lancer, which all met with enthusiastic reception before anyone ever heard of "Miller". I am sure that IF I ASKED TO BE ON EITHER PROGRAM, I would be give the same consideration as any other researcher, as refusing to allow me to speak would reflect unfavorably on any group which blacklisted me!!! "Miller" is full of xxxx. Jack Jack, I wasn't going to put anyone on the spot, but you leave me no choice. Yes, you used to be invited to speak at those conferences, but when you started in with all those bogus alteration claims - the people who put those conferences on have said that they will never allow you to speak in front of their crowds again. I was present during one of those conversations and heard it with my own ears. Since that date you have never been asked to speak in Dallas again .... END OF STORY! Bill Miller You can repete it until the cows come home White, its not going to make it true.Did they use a LENS on the dolly camera? Of course they did, another "Jack White Impossible" thats totally possible. Now deal with the REST of your mistakes as detailed in post 29. Yeh, only Jack would tell us that a camera lens cannot make objects further away look much closer to the camera than they really are ... especially when we have several assassination photos showing a train car that is clear across the RR yard looking as if it is parked just behind the fence. I then posted such a photo of a statue whereas a building that is a block away looks like it is just beyond the statue, but who cares - Jack says it cannot happen. Move over David, we now have 'Baghdad Bob Jack White' in the house! Bill Miller I just wanted to make sure you didn't get the last word Bill LOL! i have the last word...u both suck. p.s. why r u here if not to have a positive disscusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 i have the last word...u both suck.p.s. why r u here if not to have a positive disscusion? Not anymore maskboy... And exactly what is a "positive discussion"? Parroting the idiotic posts of Jack White? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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