Smoke, mirrors and misdirection.

[Guest John Gillespie]

I remember Marina testified that she had accused Lee of using the Hidell alias because it sounded like "Fidel". I never felt that her insinuation was a grounds for anything substantive. Recently, I found this document - an application for employment for GOLDRING's. On it, Lee lists his last employment as being active duty with the USMC - and indicates he had one other part-time job, previous - as a shoe salesman during the Easter holidays in 1959. At the bottom, Lee lists as one of his references a GEORGE HIDELL - who lived at 705 Polk Street and was a college student. I condensed some of the wasted space on the application to reduce the size of the file.

________________________________

Very nice work, JL. Thanks.

JG

[Michael Hogan]

Recently, I found this document - an application for employment for GOLDRING's. On it, Lee lists his last employment as being active duty with the USMC - and indicates he had one other part-time job, previous - as a shoe salesman during the Easter holidays in 1959. At the bottom, Lee lists as one of his references a GEORGE HIDELL - who lived at 705 Polk Street and was a college student.

According to WC Document 170 (FBI Report), Marguerite Oswald was employed at Goldrings from 3/16/56 until 6/31/56.

I mention this only as a coincidence, not having any direct bearing on JL's point about Hidell.

I found this in John Armstrong's Harvey & Lee. Most here are quite familiar with Armstrong's evidence of more than one Oswald. His evidence of more than one Marguerite Oswald is equally convincing.

[JL Allen]

You're very welcome, John.

[Shanet Clark]

All very fishy, the counter defector, his KGB family wife, the

failed Walker attempt, the discrepancies, the creepy "handlers" ......

If the Marine mental case couldn't hit Walker from the yard through a window,

how did hit a moving down and away target three times in ten seconds????

[Guest Stephen Turner]

2, The Hidell alias.

Of all the many misdirections, coincidences, and just plain strangeness, the Hidell alias is one of the most perplexing. The Warren Commission's statement on this matter was quite simply untrue:"Investigations were conducted with regard to persons using the name Hidell, or names similar to it.....Diligent search has has failed to reveal any persons in Dallas, or New Orleans by that name."If fact their own files contained a statement by a John Rene Heindel, in which he says: "Whilst in the marine Corps, I was often referred to as Hidell-pronounced so as to rhyme with Rydell:""This was a nickname-not merely a mispronounciation." Heindell also said that he had served in the marines with Oswald, and had both been stationed at Asugi, in Japan, and further that he had lived in New Orleans, where Oswald was born, and had spent the Summer of 1963 there...All of this was, apprantly, of no interest to Earl Warren and his merry band.

If as many believe Oswald had some connection, how ever low level, to American Intelligence it in all probability began at Atsugi, where both Oswald, and Heindel were stationed, and which was also an operational base for the CIA. Heindell was never called to testify to either the W/C, or the HSCA, yet according to DPD testimony, and army draft card in "Hidells" name was found in Oswalds wallet (which one?) after his arrest, yet this is not made public until the next afternoon,after a mail order for the rifle, in that name is discovered.

More on Hidell from Mr Summers.

The name O H Lee, The inversion of Oswalds real name, at which he registered at his rooming house, was provided to reporters within hours of the assassination. Hidell was not. Behind the scenes howerver, official communication lines hummed with references to the name within a very few hours after the assassination. It now appears that the police, and FBI were only fully alerted to the Hidell alias after contact with a third force-part of the US intelligence apparatus.

This is what occured, according to FBI records now available and the recent testimony of a former senior officer in the US army intelligence. Military intel agents were in Dallas on the day of the assassination, backing up the Secret service in security operations. At San Antonio to the North of the Texas border with Mexico, Lt Col Robert Jones was operations officer for the 112th Military intel group. As soon as he heard about the asassination, Jones has said, he urgently requested information from his men at the scene of the crime. By early afternoon he had recieved a phone call "advising that a A J Hidell had been arrested...(oddly published information suggests that the call did not mention the name Oswald, although both names were on documents in Oswalds wallet.) Jones said he quickly located the name "Hidell" in Military intel files. It cross referenced, Jones claimed, with a file on "L H Oswald, also known as A J Hidell" This in turn contained information about Oswalds past, including his time spent in the Soviet Union, and the fact that he had recently been involved in pro Castro activities in New Orleans. Indeed, according to the assassination Committee summary of Jones testimony, the file had been opened in mid 1963, "Under the names Lee Harvey Oswald, and A J Hidell. With the file in front of him Lt Col Jones promptly got on the phone to tell the FBI in Dallas about the contents of the Oswald file, The person he spoke to was agent-in-charge Gordon Shanklin, the man responsible for ordering the destuction of correspondence written by Oswald.

[Jack White]

2, The Hidell alias.

Of all the many misdirections, coincidences, and just plain strangeness, the Hidell alias is one of the most perplexing. The Warren Commission's statement on this matter was quite simply untrue:"Investigations were conducted with regard to persons using the name Hidell, or names similar to it.....Diligent search has has failed to reveal any persons in Dallas, or New Orleans by that name."If fact their own files contained a statement by a John Rene Heindel, in which he says: "Whilst in the marine Corps, I was often referred to as Hidell-pronounced so as to rhyme with Rydell:""This was a nickname-not merely a mispronounciation." Heindell also said that he had served in the marines with Oswald, and had both been stationed at Asugi, in Japan, and further that he had lived in New Orleans, where Oswald was born, and had spent the Summer of 1963 there...All of this was, apprantly, of no interest to Earl Warren and his merry band.

If as many believe Oswald had some connection, how ever low level, to American Intelligence it in all probability began at Atsugi, where both Oswald, and Heindel were stationed, and which was also an operational base for the CIA. Heindell was never called to testify to either the W/C, or the HSCA, yet according to DPD testimony, and army draft card in "Hidells" name was found in Oswalds wallet (which one?) after his arrest, yet this is not made public until the next afternoon,after a mail order for the rifle, in that name is discovered.

More on Hidell from Mr Summers.

The name O H Lee, The inversion of Oswalds real name, at which he registered at his rooming house, was provided to reporters within hours of the assassination. Hidell was not. Behind the scenes howerver, official communication lines hummed with references to the name within a very few hours after the assassination. It now appears that the police, and FBI were only fully alerted to the Hidell alias after contact with a third force-part of the US intelligence apparatus.

This is what occured, according to FBI records now available and the recent testimony of a former senior officer in the US army intelligence. Military intel agents were in Dallas on the day of the assassination, backing up the Secret service in security operations. At San Antonio to the North of the Texas border with Mexico, Lt Col Robert Jones was operations officer for the 112th Military intel group. As soon as he heard about the asassination, Jones has said, he urgently requested information from his men at the scene of the crime. By early afternoon he had recieved a phone call "advising that a A J Hidell had been arrested...(oddly published information suggests that the call did not mention the name Oswald, although both names were on documents in Oswalds wallet.) Jones said he quickly located the name "Hidell" in Military intel files. It cross referenced, Jones claimed, with a file on "L H Oswald, also known as A J Hidell" This in turn contained information about Oswalds past, including his time spent in the Soviet Union, and the fact that he had recently been involved in pro Castro activities in New Orleans. Indeed, according to the assassination Committee summary of Jones testimony, the file had been opened in mid 1963, "Under the names Lee Harvey Oswald, and A J Hidell. With the file in front of him Lt Col Jones promptly got on the phone to tell the FBI in Dallas about the contents of the Oswald file, The person he spoke to was agent-in-charge Gordon Shanklin, the man responsible for ordering the destuction of correspondence written by Oswald.

2, The Hidell alias.

Of all the many misdirections, coincidences, and just plain strangeness, the Hidell alias is one of the most perplexing. The Warren Commission's statement on this matter was quite simply untrue:"Investigations were conducted with regard to persons using the name Hidell, or names similar to it.....Diligent search has has failed to reveal any persons in Dallas, or New Orleans by that name."If fact their own files contained a statement by a John Rene Heindel, in which he says: "Whilst in the marine Corps, I was often referred to as Hidell-pronounced so as to rhyme with Rydell:""This was a nickname-not merely a mispronounciation." Heindell also said that he had served in the marines with Oswald, and had both been stationed at Asugi, in Japan, and further that he had lived in New Orleans, where Oswald was born, and had spent the Summer of 1963 there...All of this was, apprantly, of no interest to Earl Warren and his merry band.

If as many believe Oswald had some connection, how ever low level, to American Intelligence it in all probability began at Atsugi, where both Oswald, and Heindel were stationed, and which was also an operational base for the CIA. Heindell was never called to testify to either the W/C, or the HSCA, yet according to DPD testimony, and army draft card in "Hidells" name was found in Oswalds wallet (which one?) after his arrest, yet this is not made public until the next afternoon,after a mail order for the rifle, in that name is discovered.

More on Hidell from Mr Summers.

The name O H Lee, The inversion of Oswalds real name, at which he registered at his rooming house, was provided to reporters within hours of the assassination. Hidell was not. Behind the scenes howerver, official communication lines hummed with references to the name within a very few hours after the assassination. It now appears that the police, and FBI were only fully alerted to the Hidell alias after contact with a third force-part of the US intelligence apparatus.

This is what occured, according to FBI records now available and the recent testimony of a former senior officer in the US army intelligence. Military intel agents were in Dallas on the day of the assassination, backing up the Secret service in security operations. At San Antonio to the North of the Texas border with Mexico, Lt Col Robert Jones was operations officer for the 112th Military intel group. As soon as he heard about the asassination, Jones has said, he urgently requested information from his men at the scene of the crime. By early afternoon he had recieved a phone call "advising that a A J Hidell had been arrested...(oddly published information suggests that the call did not mention the name Oswald, although both names were on documents in Oswalds wallet.) Jones said he quickly located the name "Hidell" in Military intel files. It cross referenced, Jones claimed, with a file on "L H Oswald, also known as A J Hidell" This in turn contained information about Oswalds past, including his time spent in the Soviet Union, and the fact that he had recently been involved in pro Castro activities in New Orleans. Indeed, according to the assassination Committee summary of Jones testimony, the file had been opened in mid 1963, "Under the names Lee Harvey Oswald, and A J Hidell. With the file in front of him Lt Col Jones promptly got on the phone to tell the FBI in Dallas about the contents of the Oswald file, The person he spoke to was agent-in-charge Gordon Shanklin, the man responsible for ordering the destuction of correspondence written by Oswald.

In an odd irony at the burial of researcher Mary Ferrell at Hillcrest Cemetery,

I stood about thirty feet away on the grave of J. Gordon Shanklin.

Jack

[Guest Stephen Turner]

3, Oswalds unacounted cash. How Oswald managed to afford the rifle, and revolver went unanswered by the Warren Commission,or anyone else. His finacial situation during this period has been carefully scrutinized over the years, and all agree that he was living at poverty level, just about making it, with precious little, if any, spare cash. After his return from Russia he owed some large amounts of money-more than $200, to his brother, and some $430 to the State dept. During the last months of 1962 he repaid the latter in dribs, and drabs. Then, suddenly he was able to pay off the remaining debt, $396 in a mere seven weeks, that adds up to more than fifty bucks a week!! during a period in which he only earned the grand total of $490. How in Hell did he keep his family for those seven weeks on the princely sum of $94?The rent alone for this period was $68, which leaves Oswald les than $4 a week to provide food, clothing, transport, and to pay all household bills. Not onlt this, but his new found wealth coinsides with his decision to spend even more cash, on firearms One of the great unanswered questions of this case is simply, where did all the extra money come from?

[Antti Hynonen]

Stephen Turner Posted Today, 01:07 PM

3, Oswalds unacounted cash. How Oswald managed to afford the rifle, and revolver went unanswered by the Warren Commission,or anyone else. His finacial situation during this period has been carefully scrutinized over the years, and all agree that he was living at poverty level, just about making it, with precious little, if any, spare cash. After his return from Russia he owed some large amounts of money-more than $200, to his brother, and some $430 to the State dept. During the last months of 1962 he repaid the latter in dribs, and drabs. Then, suddenly he was able to pay off the remaining debt, $396 in a mere seven weeks, that adds up to more than fifty bucks a week!! during a period in which he only earned the grand total of $490. How in Hell did he keep his family for those seven weeks on the princely sum of $94?The rent alone for this period was $68, which leaves Oswald les than $4 a week to provide food, clothing, transport, and to pay all household bills. Not onlt this, but his new found wealth coinsides with his decision to spend even more cash, on firearms One of the great unanswered questions of this case is simply, where did all the extra money come from?

Good questions. The WC team will say, he worked overtime at JCS.

Well, then there's also the Irving grocery store manager, who says Oswald tried to cash a person to person check worth some 200 bucks, but he couldn't cash it for him, since it was a person to person check.

Oswald also left one of his many wallets at home on the morning of 11/22/1963 and it contained some 200 bucks.

So was he just unbelievably good with his money, or did he obtain some additional income from a federally funded program?

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Stephen Turner Posted Today, 01:07 PM

3, Oswalds unacounted cash. How Oswald managed to afford the rifle, and revolver went unanswered by the Warren Commission,or anyone else. His finacial situation during this period has been carefully scrutinized over the years, and all agree that he was living at poverty level, just about making it, with precious little, if any, spare cash. After his return from Russia he owed some large amounts of money-more than $200, to his brother, and some $430 to the State dept. During the last months of 1962 he repaid the latter in dribs, and drabs. Then, suddenly he was able to pay off the remaining debt, $396 in a mere seven weeks, that adds up to more than fifty bucks a week!! during a period in which he only earned the grand total of $490. How in Hell did he keep his family for those seven weeks on the princely sum of $94?The rent alone for this period was $68, which leaves Oswald les than $4 a week to provide food, clothing, transport, and to pay all household bills. Not onlt this, but his new found wealth coinsides with his decision to spend even more cash, on firearms One of the great unanswered questions of this case is simply, where did all the extra money come from?

Good questions. The WC team will say, he worked overtime at JCS.

Well, then there's also the Irving grocery store manager, who says Oswald tried to cash a person to person check worth some 200 bucks, but he couldn't cash it for him, since it was a person to person check.

Oswald also left one of his many wallets at home on the morning of 11/22/1963 and it contained some 200 bucks.

So was he just unbelievably good with his money, or did he obtain some additional income from a federally funded program?

Antti, seems there are three possibilities here.1, From early 63, Oswald was recieving regular, smallish amounts of money which have nothing to do with his empolyment at JCS. Just the kind of small down payments the Agency gives to fellow travellors, and other smallfry, to keep them on song, and indebted to their handlers.

2, The money used to purchase the M/C, and pistol did not come from Oswald.

Oswald had discovered a "Magic lamp" with a well set up genie inside.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

For some good stuff on the CIA attempting to bury a possible relationship with Oswald, days after the assassination,visit here.

James Angleton contacted FBI asst director William Sullivan with some advice on how to deal with the Warren Commission. Angleton warned Sullivan that the Commission was likely to put the same questions to both the FBI, and the CIA to see whether it would recieve conflicting answers. wo questions Angleton foresaw were.

1,Was Oswald ever an agent of the CIA?

2,Does the CIA have any evidence showing that a conpiracy existed to assassinate President Kennedy?

Angleton suggested as "the replies that will be given"

1, NO>

2,NO.

Dulles testimony before the Warren commission. concerning disclosure of status.

Dulles..."He would not tell.

C/J Warren "Wouldn't he tell it under oath?

Dulles...I wouldn't think he would...no.

Warren Why?

Dulles...He ought not to tell it under oath, not tell it to his own Government..but wouldn't tell it any other way. (sic)

Warren..Would he tell it to his own chief?

Dulles...He might, or he might not....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dulles...There is a hard thing to disprove, you know, how do you disprove a fellow was not your agent?

Boggs...You could disprove it couldnt you?

Dulles...No....I never knew how to disprove it.

Boggs...Did you have agents about whom you had no record whatsoever?

Dulles...The record may not be on paper.but on record you would have hieroglyphics, that only two people know what they meant, and nobody out side the agency would know.

SORRY, THE LINK I GAVE AT THE TOP APPEARS TO BE BROKEN, I WILL TRY AGAIN..

Edited September 28, 2006 by Stephen Turner

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Stephen Turner Posted Today, 01:07 PM

.

Lastly, he likely didn't need money for the MC as he didn't buy nor own one.

Peter, whether or not Oswald owned the MC is not really my point here...but rather that given his financial situation, it is impossible to see how he could have afforded it. Either he is recieving funds from an undisclosed source...Or, as you say, he never ordered it in the first place..Which, once again, highlights the alias "Hidell"