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In that regards I am reminded of the saying as relates to answers to questions (which too has proven to be highly incorrect).

The saying was, to some extent:

Answers which require no thought--------------Free

Answers which require any thought-------------$1.00

Correct answers-----------------------------------Highly expensive.

The Kennedy Assassination has thoroughly demonstrated the error of this assumption since people have been "paying" for highly incorrect; erroneous; and often completely asinine answers for a long time.

Whereas the "correct" answers have always been completely free to anyone who was generally stupid enough to expend the time; monies; and energies to find these answers.

Therefore:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why is the BOH/"Blowout" to the back of the head not seen in the Z-film, and is this not evidence of film alteration?

A. The BOH/"Blowout"/final separation of those bones of the occiput did not happen until impact of the third shot which was down in front of Mr. Altgens position.

The shot at Z313 had resulted in removal of a "skull cap" section from the top of the head of JFK, which can be clearly seen in the Z-film, laying over on the right side of his face.

Removal of this portion of the skull by the shot, severely weakened the structural integrity of the remaining bone, thus leaving it highly susceptible to additional severe fracturing.

There was no damage to the occiput between the location of this shot to the head (Z313) until such time as the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position struck JFK in the EOP/Occiput area of the skull.

Thereafter, due to the already weakened position of the skull as a result of the Z313 impact, that portion of remaing skull which was below this area managed to severely fracture due to bullet impact, thus sending radiating fractures in various directions which included upwards fractures which terminated when they encountered that area where the portion of the skull was absent due to the Z313 impact.

Thus, anyone who is looking for the BOH/Blowout/EOP damage between Z313 to that point at which Mr. Altgens comes into view and the area of JFK's head is blocked from view, is looking for something which did not exist at the time, and therefore, there was little need for any alteration to the Z-film to delete something which did not exist in the first place.

SS Agent Clint Hill observed the damage after he managed to climb into the rear seat of the Presidential Limo, and as we (those who do their homework) all know, numerous Dr.'s at Parkland Hospital also observed this damage to the occiput.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. How did the "Harper" fragment get so far down Elm St. from the impact point to the head?

A. As with most other aspects, attempting to associate items which are a result of the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position, has created confusion and doubt in the minds of many.

Since the last shot did not impact until some 30+ feet farther down Elm St. than the Z313 impact position, that alone deletes a portion of the problem.

Of course, Mr. Altgens (as well as Nellie Connally) fully explain the explosive force created by the third/last/final shot, and then of course, we also have what is purportedly a skull fragment being seen on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limousine.

Nevertheless, the impact of the third shot created sufficient damage to the Occiput, as well as the frontal area of the skull of JFK that it would appear that the Harper fragment was a result of this head impact and resulting shattering of the skull.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why did Jackie attempt to climb out on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limo?

A. Well, one could state that she was attempting to recover pieces of JFK's skull which separated as a result of impact of the third/last/final shot. However, this seems most unlikely.

The "delayed" reaction, if you will, of Jackie is more likely a result of the fact that she was holding JFK and partially holding his head when the third shot blew the head apart and completed the shattering of the skull and fragmentation of the skull bone, as well as blowing cerebral matter all over Nellie Connally and the back of the coat of JBC who was laying across the open area of the jump seats.

Too include blowing this matter in the direction of Mr. Altgens.

Jackie undoubtedly "told us something" in her WC testimony which would have aided in clearing this up.

However, Specter & Company apparantly recognized the significance of this and thus we have that portion deleted from her testmony due to the "graphic" nature of here testimony.

(anyone believe that?)

Nevertheless, Jackie has stated that she was holding JFK when his head was blown apart, and most have assumed that this was in reference to the Z313 head impact.

The simple facts appear to be that Jackie was clearly holding JFK when impact from the third shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position completely blew portions of the skull apart and sent cerebral matter flying in multiple and various directions, as well as skull fragments.

With that in mind, it is time to find another place to be, or at least I can assure that I would be finding another place to be.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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In that regards I am reminded of the saying as relates to answers to questions (which too has proven to be highly incorrect).

The saying was, to some extent:

Answers which require no thought--------------Free

Answers which require any thought-------------$1.00

Correct answers-----------------------------------Highly expensive.

The Kennedy Assassination has thoroughly demonstrated the error of this assumption since people have been "paying" for highly incorrect; erroneous; and often completely asinine answers for a long time.

Whereas the "correct" answers have always been completely free to anyone who was generally stupid enough to expend the time; monies; and energies to find these answers.

Therefore:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why is the BOH/"Blowout" to the back of the head not seen in the Z-film, and is this not evidence of film alteration?

A. The BOH/"Blowout"/final separation of those bones of the occiput did not happen until impact of the third shot which was down in front of Mr. Altgens position.

The shot at Z313 had resulted in removal of a "skull cap" section from the top of the head of JFK, which can be clearly seen in the Z-film, laying over on the right side of his face.

Removal of this portion of the skull by the shot, severely weakened the structural integrity of the remaining bone, thus leaving it highly susceptible to additional severe fracturing.

There was no damage to the occiput between the location of this shot to the head (Z313) until such time as the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position struck JFK in the EOP/Occiput area of the skull.

Thereafter, due to the already weakened position of the skull as a result of the Z313 impact, that portion of remaing skull which was below this area managed to severely fracture due to bullet impact, thus sending radiating fractures in various directions which included upwards fractures which terminated when they encountered that area where the portion of the skull was absent due to the Z313 impact.

Thus, anyone who is looking for the BOH/Blowout/EOP damage between Z313 to that point at which Mr. Altgens comes into view and the area of JFK's head is blocked from view, is looking for something which did not exist at the time, and therefore, there was little need for any alteration to the Z-film to delete something which did not exist in the first place.

SS Agent Clint Hill observed the damage after he managed to climb into the rear seat of the Presidential Limo, and as we (those who do their homework) all know, numerous Dr.'s at Parkland Hospital also observed this damage to the occiput.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. How did the "Harper" fragment get so far down Elm St. from the impact point to the head?

A. As with most other aspects, attempting to associate items which are a result of the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position, has created confusion and doubt in the minds of many.

Since the last shot did not impact until some 30+ feet farther down Elm St. than the Z313 impact position, that alone deletes a portion of the problem.

Of course, Mr. Altgens (as well as Nellie Connally) fully explain the explosive force created by the third/last/final shot, and then of course, we also have what is purportedly a skull fragment being seen on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limousine.

Nevertheless, the impact of the third shot created sufficient damage to the Occiput, as well as the frontal area of the skull of JFK that it would appear that the Harper fragment was a result of this head impact and resulting shattering of the skull.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why did Jackie attempt to climb out on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limo?

A. Well, one could state that she was attempting to recover pieces of JFK's skull which separated as a result of impact of the third/last/final shot. However, this seems most unlikely.

The "delayed" reaction, if you will, of Jackie is more likely a result of the fact that she was holding JFK and partially holding his head when the third shot blew the head apart and completed the shattering of the skull and fragmentation of the skull bone, as well as blowing cerebral matter all over Nellie Connally and the back of the coat of JBC who was laying across the open area of the jump seats.

Too include blowing this matter in the direction of Mr. Altgens.

Jackie undoubtedly "told us something" in her WC testimony which would have aided in clearing this up.

However, Specter & Company apparantly recognized the significance of this and thus we have that portion deleted from her testmony due to the "graphic" nature of here testimony.

(anyone believe that?)

Nevertheless, Jackie has stated that she was holding JFK when his head was blown apart, and most have assumed that this was in reference to the Z313 head impact.

The simple facts appear to be that Jackie was clearly holding JFK when impact from the third shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position completely blew portions of the skull apart and sent cerebral matter flying in multiple and various directions, as well as skull fragments.

With that in mind, it is time to find another place to be, or at least I can assure that I would be finding another place to be.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I had the money, I'd have a lot of answers, that's my opinion. It would take a lot of money.

I don't believe it is clear from the z-film what happened. There is certainly some precedence for doubt - including Z's testimony at the Clay Shaw trial, the publication of the frames out of sequence, the damage done to the original film, the witnesses who claim to have seen a different film, the witnesses who describe seeing something different from what we see in the film, the numerous versions of the z-film that exist with their small differences, etc. etc. As to skull fragments and brain matter - they mopped the street. They cleaned the car. Pieces of skull were found in the car, in the street, at the curb, and on the grass. As has been detailed here, many of these fragments never even made it for examination - thanks to our friendly postal inspector. The relationship of LIFE to the CIA, Clara Luce Booth, CD Jackson, etc. is disturbing. Zapruder himself is a strange character - as as stated previously, his Jennifer Juniors allegedly had ownership of the 2nd floor broom closet. It has been alleged that he was a Mason, along with his White Russian background - convenient that he was working in the DalTex, and that the TSBD was the chosen location, along with the dogleg. The bizarre phone call made by Peggy Burney. Etc. Etc.

We can go on all day without getting anywhere. What seems to be missing is a frame or two, where Kennedy receives a shot to the back of his head, throwing it forward, before receiving a shot from the front, which entered the temple. Wim has attempted to indicate that there is evidence for this, even in the frames that we have. There is a slight dipping of the head forward, which some of course have attempted to portray as the initial reaction by the head of the round entering from the rear, with a 'jet effect' afterwards, pulling it back. I don't think so. I'm no expert however.

Using Roberdeau's plat - which I know you have issues with :rolleyes: - you can see skull fragments and where they would have travelled on the basis of a z313 being the only hit to the head. It is illogical. If the Harper fragment is a piece from the rear of the skull, it is also illogical that it would have flown to the position marked by Roberdeau and Harper on the plat. It is also illogical that no one would have discovered this large fragment while the numerous individuals were scouring the grass. That fragment would have landed very close to the unidentified couple on the triangle. Why didn't they collect it? At least 2 skulls pieces had hair attached - this is also not logical, of you are dealing with a FMJ 6.5mm round? Where are those pieces?

The one Vince Drain speaks of for example.

Here's a better scenario.

The location of Dealey Plaza was preselected. Oswald was the Patsy - he was supposed to have been used through some mind control stuff, but he was a screw-up and couldn't be relied upon to carry out orders. The Plaza was carefully surveyed in the weeks prior. Locations were selected for shooting positions - both at elevation as well as at ground level. Weapons were placed in position before the arrival of the motorcade. There were a lot of folks present in Dealey Plaza who knew what was going to happen - placed there purposely. The SS made sure that there was no press flatbed riding in front. They rearranged the motorcade line-up so that the Press were unable to record any of the shooting. The arranged the Whitehouse Doctor so that he would be too far from the President's car to provide him with any medical aid. The VP was in the same motorcade for the first and only time in history. The SS and others were made to stand down, as well as other possible anti-security measures - like the DPD. Kennedy wasn't even properly flanked by DPD motorcycles. The bubbletop was intentionally left off the car - and an argument still exists that largely places the blame for this on Kennedy himself - which is ironic and convenient. It would have also have been intelligent to suggest that he chose the dogleg turn, and Ready as his security. 'Yeah, that Ivy Leaguer Rybka - leave him at Love Field! Make sure you take that hairpin on to Elm.'

Many folks believe that David Morales led what was an extensive black operation on US soil, to eliminate the Commander-in-Chief. That they used many standard tactics, like recruiting cutouts and providing information on a need-to-know basis. Compartmentalized cells were deployed. The folks who had the strongest motive were used to get the job done. Numerous operatives were used for a large variety of assignments - even as observers. Kennedy was taken out for a very large number of reasons, by a lot of people who had a large number of reasons for wanting him out - who didn't want him out? The owned media failed to do much of anything, except participate DIRECTLY in the cover-up. The FBI quickly set out to seize any record made by Johnny Q Public, to control the information. A few dirty cops at the DPD were involved. A screw-up of some kind led to Tippit being shot, and Oswald being arrested in the Theatre. There were numerous other Patsies. There was an operation at Love Field and the DalTex in the event of an abort at DP. There were signals used for the firing. I assume that the police radio channel was used in some way to accomplish this - through some form of code. As per Loy Factor, the code was received, and 'Ruth Ann' did a three count before giving a hand signal to fire - further confusing any efforts to synch the shots afterwards.

Jackie went out on the hood - hmmm. We seem to be in agreement. I have never seen any indication of a fragment out on the back of the car. It's been suggested to me that Jackie knew what was going to happen, she just didn't know when. Perhaps that is too far fetched - I have no idea. The red roses should have been a clue - she commented on them afterwards - always yellow before Dallas. She panicked and tried to get the hell out of there in fear. That is much more logical. She was scared for her own life. Even if she wasn't aware of the event - she was freaking out - and who wouldn't. If Clint Hill hadn't arrived she probably would have fallen off of the car and hit the ground running. Her husband's head just exploded in her face, and she was covered with brain matter, blood and etc. I bet there was an awful smell. The normal human reaction under these circumstances is to chase after a piece of skull? I think not.

As to paying for information - I see nothing wrong with it. I don't have that kind of money unfortunately, however, I don't see why a black op that participated in this op or other ongoing ops is going to open his / her mouth and take risks [to himself, family, associates, etc,] for the sake of John F. Kennedy [absurd], the 'truth' or the threat of 'hell.' Diming yourself out can mean connecting others. Implicating yourself can lead to exposure of other ops. And you don't get certain assignments without precautions being taken beforehand - eg 'going in dirty.' Plus as I believe I indicated before, it's my impression that folks engaged in this type of work typically signed documents which prohibits them from speaking out. Also Intel is about family. It would have to be a lot of money - otherwise, I tend to agree - you'll get a mix of info and disinfo.

What is it that changes this? The passage of time. The death of key individuals. Guilt. The recognition of that nothing has been done to help out with Cuba. That some of these folks were clearly lied to and misled. That the pay sucked. Etc. But it doesn't matter anyway - the machine will see to it that anyone who comes forward is quickly discredited anyway.

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Perhaps in this scenario, you and all of those others who are lost in this rabbit hole, would like to explain exactly how it was that this mythologial shot from the front managed to blow out a portion of the frontal portion of JFK's skull and blow it out with such force that it not only landed in the floorboard, but also went up under the seat which Nellie Connally was sitting in.

From where it was recovered, along with numerous scrapings of cerebral tissue, etc; from the back of the seat in which Nellie was sitting, as well as from the forward area in between the jump seats, as a result of it ALL having been blown forward by the exiting bullet.

And by the way, Even Colonel Finck fully recognized that the head had to have been bent forward at the time of impact in order for the bullet which struck in the EOP region to have created the elongated entry through the skull.

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In that regards I am reminded of the saying as relates to answers to questions (which too has proven to be highly incorrect).

The saying was, to some extent:

Answers which require no thought--------------Free

Answers which require any thought-------------$1.00

Correct answers-----------------------------------Highly expensive.

The Kennedy Assassination has thoroughly demonstrated the error of this assumption since people have been "paying" for highly incorrect; erroneous; and often completely asinine answers for a long time.

Whereas the "correct" answers have always been completely free to anyone who was generally stupid enough to expend the time; monies; and energies to find these answers.

Therefore:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why is the BOH/"Blowout" to the back of the head not seen in the Z-film, and is this not evidence of film alteration?

A. The BOH/"Blowout"/final separation of those bones of the occiput did not happen until impact of the third shot which was down in front of Mr. Altgens position.

The shot at Z313 had resulted in removal of a "skull cap" section from the top of the head of JFK, which can be clearly seen in the Z-film, laying over on the right side of his face.

Removal of this portion of the skull by the shot, severely weakened the structural integrity of the remaining bone, thus leaving it highly susceptible to additional severe fracturing.

There was no damage to the occiput between the location of this shot to the head (Z313) until such time as the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position struck JFK in the EOP/Occiput area of the skull.

Thereafter, due to the already weakened position of the skull as a result of the Z313 impact, that portion of remaing skull which was below this area managed to severely fracture due to bullet impact, thus sending radiating fractures in various directions which included upwards fractures which terminated when they encountered that area where the portion of the skull was absent due to the Z313 impact.

Thus, anyone who is looking for the BOH/Blowout/EOP damage between Z313 to that point at which Mr. Altgens comes into view and the area of JFK's head is blocked from view, is looking for something which did not exist at the time, and therefore, there was little need for any alteration to the Z-film to delete something which did not exist in the first place.

SS Agent Clint Hill observed the damage after he managed to climb into the rear seat of the Presidential Limo, and as we (those who do their homework) all know, numerous Dr.'s at Parkland Hospital also observed this damage to the occiput.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. How did the "Harper" fragment get so far down Elm St. from the impact point to the head?

A. As with most other aspects, attempting to associate items which are a result of the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position, has created confusion and doubt in the minds of many.

Since the last shot did not impact until some 30+ feet farther down Elm St. than the Z313 impact position, that alone deletes a portion of the problem.

Of course, Mr. Altgens (as well as Nellie Connally) fully explain the explosive force created by the third/last/final shot, and then of course, we also have what is purportedly a skull fragment being seen on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limousine.

Nevertheless, the impact of the third shot created sufficient damage to the Occiput, as well as the frontal area of the skull of JFK that it would appear that the Harper fragment was a result of this head impact and resulting shattering of the skull.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why did Jackie attempt to climb out on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limo?

A. Well, one could state that she was attempting to recover pieces of JFK's skull which separated as a result of impact of the third/last/final shot. However, this seems most unlikely.

The "delayed" reaction, if you will, of Jackie is more likely a result of the fact that she was holding JFK and partially holding his head when the third shot blew the head apart and completed the shattering of the skull and fragmentation of the skull bone, as well as blowing cerebral matter all over Nellie Connally and the back of the coat of JBC who was laying across the open area of the jump seats.

Too include blowing this matter in the direction of Mr. Altgens.

Jackie undoubtedly "told us something" in her WC testimony which would have aided in clearing this up.

However, Specter & Company apparantly recognized the significance of this and thus we have that portion deleted from her testmony due to the "graphic" nature of here testimony.

(anyone believe that?)

Nevertheless, Jackie has stated that she was holding JFK when his head was blown apart, and most have assumed that this was in reference to the Z313 head impact.

The simple facts appear to be that Jackie was clearly holding JFK when impact from the third shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position completely blew portions of the skull apart and sent cerebral matter flying in multiple and various directions, as well as skull fragments.

With that in mind, it is time to find another place to be, or at least I can assure that I would be finding another place to be.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I had the money, I'd have a lot of answers, that's my opinion. It would take a lot of money.

I don't believe it is clear from the z-film what happened. There is certainly some precedence for doubt - including Z's testimony at the Clay Shaw trial, the publication of the frames out of sequence, the damage done to the original film, the witnesses who claim to have seen a different film, the witnesses who describe seeing something different from what we see in the film, the numerous versions of the z-film that exist with their small differences, etc. etc. As to skull fragments and brain matter - they mopped the street. They cleaned the car. Pieces of skull were found in the car, in the street, at the curb, and on the grass. As has been detailed here, many of these fragments never even made it for examination - thanks to our friendly postal inspector. The relationship of LIFE to the CIA, Clara Luce Booth, CD Jackson, etc. is disturbing. Zapruder himself is a strange character - as as stated previously, his Jennifer Juniors allegedly had ownership of the 2nd floor broom closet. It has been alleged that he was a Mason, along with his White Russian background - convenient that he was working in the DalTex, and that the TSBD was the chosen location, along with the dogleg. The bizarre phone call made by Peggy Burney. Etc. Etc.

We can go on all day without getting anywhere. What seems to be missing is a frame or two, where Kennedy receives a shot to the back of his head, throwing it forward, before receiving a shot from the front, which entered the temple. Wim has attempted to indicate that there is evidence for this, even in the frames that we have. There is a slight dipping of the head forward, which some of course have attempted to portray as the initial reaction by the head of the round entering from the rear, with a 'jet effect' afterwards, pulling it back. I don't think so. I'm no expert however.

Using Roberdeau's plat - which I know you have issues with :ice - you can see skull fragments and where they would have travelled on the basis of a z313 being the only hit to the head. It is illogical. If the Harper fragment is a piece from the rear of the skull, it is also illogical that it would have flown to the position marked by Roberdeau and Harper on the plat. It is also illogical that no one would have discovered this large fragment while the numerous individuals were scouring the grass. That fragment would have landed very close to the unidentified couple on the triangle. Why didn't they collect it? At least 2 skulls pieces had hair attached - this is also not logical, of you are dealing with a FMJ 6.5mm round? Where are those pieces?

The one Vince Drain speaks of for example.

Here's a better scenario.

The location of Dealey Plaza was preselected. Oswald was the Patsy - he was supposed to have been used through some mind control stuff, but he was a screw-up and couldn't be relied upon to carry out orders. The Plaza was carefully surveyed in the weeks prior. Locations were selected for shooting positions - both at elevation as well as at ground level. Weapons were placed in position before the arrival of the motorcade. There were a lot of folks present in Dealey Plaza who knew what was going to happen - placed there purposely. The SS made sure that there was no press flatbed riding in front. They rearranged the motorcade line-up so that the Press were unable to record any of the shooting. The arranged the Whitehouse Doctor so that he would be too far from the President's car to provide him with any medical aid. The VP was in the same motorcade for the first and only time in history. The SS and others were made to stand down, as well as other possible anti-security measures - like the DPD. Kennedy wasn't even properly flanked by DPD motorcycles. The bubbletop was intentionally left off the car - and an argument still exists that largely places the blame for this on Kennedy himself - which is ironic and convenient. It would have also have been intelligent to suggest that he chose the dogleg turn, and Ready as his security. 'Yeah, that Ivy Leaguer Rybka - leave him at Love Field! Make sure you take that hairpin on to Elm.'

Many folks believe that David Morales led what was an extensive black operation on US soil, to eliminate the Commander-in-Chief. That they used many standard tactics, like recruiting cutouts and providing information on a need-to-know basis. Compartmentalized cells were deployed. The folks who had the strongest motive were used to get the job done. Numerous operatives were used for a large variety of assignments - even as observers. Kennedy was taken out for a very large number of reasons, by a lot of people who had a large number of reasons for wanting him out - who didn't want him out? The owned media failed to do much of anything, except participate DIRECTLY in the cover-up. The FBI quickly set out to seize any record made by Johnny Q Public, to control the information. A few dirty cops at the DPD were involved. A screw-up of some kind led to Tippit being shot, and Oswald being arrested in the Theatre. There were numerous other Patsies. There was an operation at Love Field and the DalTex in the event of an abort at DP. There were signals used for the firing. I assume that the police radio channel was used in some way to accomplish this - through some form of code. As per Loy Factor, the code was received, and 'Ruth Ann' did a three count before giving a hand signal to fire - further confusing any efforts to synch the shots afterwards.

Jackie went out on the hood - hmmm. We seem to be in agreement. I have never seen any indication of a fragment out on the back of the car. It's been suggested to me that Jackie knew what was going to happen, she just didn't know when. Perhaps that is too far fetched - I have no idea. The red roses should have been a clue - she commented on them afterwards - always yellow before Dallas. She panicked and tried to get the hell out of there in fear. That is much more logical. She was scared for her own life. Even if she wasn't aware of the event - she was freaking out - and who wouldn't. If Clint Hill hadn't arrived she probably would have fallen off of the car and hit the ground running. Her husband's head just exploded in her face, and she was covered with brain matter, blood and etc. I bet there was an awful smell. The normal human reaction under these circumstances is to chase after a piece of skull? I think not.

As to paying for information - I see nothing wrong with it. I don't have that kind of money unfortunately, however, I don't see why a black op that participated in this op or other ongoing ops is going to open his / her mouth and take risks [to himself, family, associates, etc,] for the sake of John F. Kennedy [absurd], the 'truth' or the threat of 'hell.' Diming yourself out can mean connecting others. Implicating yourself can lead to exposure of other ops. And you don't get certain assignments without precautions being taken beforehand - eg 'going in dirty.' Plus as I believe I indicated before, it's my impression that folks engaged in this type of work typically signed documents which prohibits them from speaking out. Also Intel is about family. It would have to be a lot of money - otherwise, I tend to agree - you'll get a mix of info and disinfo.

What is it that changes this? The passage of time. The death of key individuals. Guilt. The recognition of that nothing has been done to help out with Cuba. That some of these folks were clearly lied to and misled. That the pay sucked. Etc. But it doesn't matter anyway - the machine will see to it that anyone who comes forward is quickly discredited anyway.

Using Roberdeau's plat - which I know you have issues with - you can see skull fragments and where they would have travelled on the basis of a z313 being the only hit to the head.

One can rest assured that I have numerous problems with this funny paper!

And although one must give credit to it's author, not unlike many of the books and stories on the subject matter, it should be clarified as to validity of information posted.

A "disclaimer" may perhaps keep many from accepting as fact, certain portions of what is posted/drawn.

Among those "issues" which I have problems, being the assumption that a skull fragment from the Z313 shot flew forward approximately 37 feet forward and landed at Mr. Altgens feet. ( impact of Z313 to Elm St. curb/gutter at feet of Mr. Altgens location).

On the other hand, I have little difficulty with Mr. Altgens relative accurate testimony as regards the LAST SHOT fired, which was directly in front of his position, thus resulting in the cerebral tissue (as well as skull bone) being blown leftwards in his direction.

Which by the way would pretty well correspond with a piece of the skull being blown out and landing at Mr. Altgens feet.

Not to mention that other piece of the frontal bone of the skull of JFK which was also blown down and ultimately landed under the jumpseat in which Nellie Connally was seated.

That you, as well as many others have not "caught on" to the rationale behind the attempt to not even question Mr. Altgens, as well as the phony re-enactment photo which the WC made of the Altgens photo (Z255), aka CE9000 along with the fact that the WC never bothered to publish any of those frames past Z334, which is prior to Mr. Altgens coming into view of the Z-film, is hardly my problem.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0054a.htm

I long ago explained how the WC "changed" the position of Mr. Altgens in their re-enactment photo.

Just did not bother to explain at the time what it was all in relationship to.

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In that regards I am reminded of the saying as relates to answers to questions (which too has proven to be highly incorrect).

The saying was, to some extent:

Answers which require no thought--------------Free

Answers which require any thought-------------$1.00

Correct answers-----------------------------------Highly expensive.

The Kennedy Assassination has thoroughly demonstrated the error of this assumption since people have been "paying" for highly incorrect; erroneous; and often completely asinine answers for a long time.

Whereas the "correct" answers have always been completely free to anyone who was generally stupid enough to expend the time; monies; and energies to find these answers.

Therefore:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why is the BOH/"Blowout" to the back of the head not seen in the Z-film, and is this not evidence of film alteration?

A. The BOH/"Blowout"/final separation of those bones of the occiput did not happen until impact of the third shot which was down in front of Mr. Altgens position.

The shot at Z313 had resulted in removal of a "skull cap" section from the top of the head of JFK, which can be clearly seen in the Z-film, laying over on the right side of his face.

Removal of this portion of the skull by the shot, severely weakened the structural integrity of the remaining bone, thus leaving it highly susceptible to additional severe fracturing.

There was no damage to the occiput between the location of this shot to the head (Z313) until such time as the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position struck JFK in the EOP/Occiput area of the skull.

Thereafter, due to the already weakened position of the skull as a result of the Z313 impact, that portion of remaing skull which was below this area managed to severely fracture due to bullet impact, thus sending radiating fractures in various directions which included upwards fractures which terminated when they encountered that area where the portion of the skull was absent due to the Z313 impact.

Thus, anyone who is looking for the BOH/Blowout/EOP damage between Z313 to that point at which Mr. Altgens comes into view and the area of JFK's head is blocked from view, is looking for something which did not exist at the time, and therefore, there was little need for any alteration to the Z-film to delete something which did not exist in the first place.

SS Agent Clint Hill observed the damage after he managed to climb into the rear seat of the Presidential Limo, and as we (those who do their homework) all know, numerous Dr.'s at Parkland Hospital also observed this damage to the occiput.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. How did the "Harper" fragment get so far down Elm St. from the impact point to the head?

A. As with most other aspects, attempting to associate items which are a result of the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position, has created confusion and doubt in the minds of many.

Since the last shot did not impact until some 30+ feet farther down Elm St. than the Z313 impact position, that alone deletes a portion of the problem.

Of course, Mr. Altgens (as well as Nellie Connally) fully explain the explosive force created by the third/last/final shot, and then of course, we also have what is purportedly a skull fragment being seen on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limousine.

Nevertheless, the impact of the third shot created sufficient damage to the Occiput, as well as the frontal area of the skull of JFK that it would appear that the Harper fragment was a result of this head impact and resulting shattering of the skull.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why did Jackie attempt to climb out on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limo?

A. Well, one could state that she was attempting to recover pieces of JFK's skull which separated as a result of impact of the third/last/final shot. However, this seems most unlikely.

The "delayed" reaction, if you will, of Jackie is more likely a result of the fact that she was holding JFK and partially holding his head when the third shot blew the head apart and completed the shattering of the skull and fragmentation of the skull bone, as well as blowing cerebral matter all over Nellie Connally and the back of the coat of JBC who was laying across the open area of the jump seats.

Too include blowing this matter in the direction of Mr. Altgens.

Jackie undoubtedly "told us something" in her WC testimony which would have aided in clearing this up.

However, Specter & Company apparantly recognized the significance of this and thus we have that portion deleted from her testmony due to the "graphic" nature of here testimony.

(anyone believe that?)

Nevertheless, Jackie has stated that she was holding JFK when his head was blown apart, and most have assumed that this was in reference to the Z313 head impact.

The simple facts appear to be that Jackie was clearly holding JFK when impact from the third shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position completely blew portions of the skull apart and sent cerebral matter flying in multiple and various directions, as well as skull fragments.

With that in mind, it is time to find another place to be, or at least I can assure that I would be finding another place to be.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I had the money, I'd have a lot of answers, that's my opinion. It would take a lot of money.

I don't believe it is clear from the z-film what happened. There is certainly some precedence for doubt - including Z's testimony at the Clay Shaw trial, the publication of the frames out of sequence, the damage done to the original film, the witnesses who claim to have seen a different film, the witnesses who describe seeing something different from what we see in the film, the numerous versions of the z-film that exist with their small differences, etc. etc. As to skull fragments and brain matter - they mopped the street. They cleaned the car. Pieces of skull were found in the car, in the street, at the curb, and on the grass. As has been detailed here, many of these fragments never even made it for examination - thanks to our friendly postal inspector. The relationship of LIFE to the CIA, Clara Luce Booth, CD Jackson, etc. is disturbing. Zapruder himself is a strange character - as as stated previously, his Jennifer Juniors allegedly had ownership of the 2nd floor broom closet. It has been alleged that he was a Mason, along with his White Russian background - convenient that he was working in the DalTex, and that the TSBD was the chosen location, along with the dogleg. The bizarre phone call made by Peggy Burney. Etc. Etc.

We can go on all day without getting anywhere. What seems to be missing is a frame or two, where Kennedy receives a shot to the back of his head, throwing it forward, before receiving a shot from the front, which entered the temple. Wim has attempted to indicate that there is evidence for this, even in the frames that we have. There is a slight dipping of the head forward, which some of course have attempted to portray as the initial reaction by the head of the round entering from the rear, with a 'jet effect' afterwards, pulling it back. I don't think so. I'm no expert however.

Using Roberdeau's plat - which I know you have issues with :ice - you can see skull fragments and where they would have travelled on the basis of a z313 being the only hit to the head. It is illogical. If the Harper fragment is a piece from the rear of the skull, it is also illogical that it would have flown to the position marked by Roberdeau and Harper on the plat. It is also illogical that no one would have discovered this large fragment while the numerous individuals were scouring the grass. That fragment would have landed very close to the unidentified couple on the triangle. Why didn't they collect it? At least 2 skulls pieces had hair attached - this is also not logical, of you are dealing with a FMJ 6.5mm round? Where are those pieces?

The one Vince Drain speaks of for example.

Here's a better scenario.

The location of Dealey Plaza was preselected. Oswald was the Patsy - he was supposed to have been used through some mind control stuff, but he was a screw-up and couldn't be relied upon to carry out orders. The Plaza was carefully surveyed in the weeks prior. Locations were selected for shooting positions - both at elevation as well as at ground level. Weapons were placed in position before the arrival of the motorcade. There were a lot of folks present in Dealey Plaza who knew what was going to happen - placed there purposely. The SS made sure that there was no press flatbed riding in front. They rearranged the motorcade line-up so that the Press were unable to record any of the shooting. The arranged the Whitehouse Doctor so that he would be too far from the President's car to provide him with any medical aid. The VP was in the same motorcade for the first and only time in history. The SS and others were made to stand down, as well as other possible anti-security measures - like the DPD. Kennedy wasn't even properly flanked by DPD motorcycles. The bubbletop was intentionally left off the car - and an argument still exists that largely places the blame for this on Kennedy himself - which is ironic and convenient. It would have also have been intelligent to suggest that he chose the dogleg turn, and Ready as his security. 'Yeah, that Ivy Leaguer Rybka - leave him at Love Field! Make sure you take that hairpin on to Elm.'

Many folks believe that David Morales led what was an extensive black operation on US soil, to eliminate the Commander-in-Chief. That they used many standard tactics, like recruiting cutouts and providing information on a need-to-know basis. Compartmentalized cells were deployed. The folks who had the strongest motive were used to get the job done. Numerous operatives were used for a large variety of assignments - even as observers. Kennedy was taken out for a very large number of reasons, by a lot of people who had a large number of reasons for wanting him out - who didn't want him out? The owned media failed to do much of anything, except participate DIRECTLY in the cover-up. The FBI quickly set out to seize any record made by Johnny Q Public, to control the information. A few dirty cops at the DPD were involved. A screw-up of some kind led to Tippit being shot, and Oswald being arrested in the Theatre. There were numerous other Patsies. There was an operation at Love Field and the DalTex in the event of an abort at DP. There were signals used for the firing. I assume that the police radio channel was used in some way to accomplish this - through some form of code. As per Loy Factor, the code was received, and 'Ruth Ann' did a three count before giving a hand signal to fire - further confusing any efforts to synch the shots afterwards.

Jackie went out on the hood - hmmm. We seem to be in agreement. I have never seen any indication of a fragment out on the back of the car. It's been suggested to me that Jackie knew what was going to happen, she just didn't know when. Perhaps that is too far fetched - I have no idea. The red roses should have been a clue - she commented on them afterwards - always yellow before Dallas. She panicked and tried to get the hell out of there in fear. That is much more logical. She was scared for her own life. Even if she wasn't aware of the event - she was freaking out - and who wouldn't. If Clint Hill hadn't arrived she probably would have fallen off of the car and hit the ground running. Her husband's head just exploded in her face, and she was covered with brain matter, blood and etc. I bet there was an awful smell. The normal human reaction under these circumstances is to chase after a piece of skull? I think not.

As to paying for information - I see nothing wrong with it. I don't have that kind of money unfortunately, however, I don't see why a black op that participated in this op or other ongoing ops is going to open his / her mouth and take risks [to himself, family, associates, etc,] for the sake of John F. Kennedy [absurd], the 'truth' or the threat of 'hell.' Diming yourself out can mean connecting others. Implicating yourself can lead to exposure of other ops. And you don't get certain assignments without precautions being taken beforehand - eg 'going in dirty.' Plus as I believe I indicated before, it's my impression that folks engaged in this type of work typically signed documents which prohibits them from speaking out. Also Intel is about family. It would have to be a lot of money - otherwise, I tend to agree - you'll get a mix of info and disinfo.

What is it that changes this? The passage of time. The death of key individuals. Guilt. The recognition of that nothing has been done to help out with Cuba. That some of these folks were clearly lied to and misled. That the pay sucked. Etc. But it doesn't matter anyway - the machine will see to it that anyone who comes forward is quickly discredited anyway.

TOP POST

Do not know the exact why that this did not go to the head of the line.

Nevertheless, perhaps this will get it there.

Using Roberdeau's plat - which I know you have issues with - you can see skull fragments and where they would have travelled on the basis of a z313 being the only hit to the head.

One can rest assured that I have numerous problems with this funny paper!

And although one must give credit to it's author, not unlike many of the books and stories on the subject matter, it should be clarified as to validity of information posted.

A "disclaimer" may perhaps keep many from accepting as fact, certain portions of what is posted/drawn.

Among those "issues" which I have problems, being the assumption that a skull fragment from the Z313 shot flew forward approximately 37 feet forward and landed at Mr. Altgens feet. ( impact of Z313 to Elm St. curb/gutter at feet of Mr. Altgens location).

On the other hand, I have little difficulty with Mr. Altgens relative accurate testimony as regards the LAST SHOT fired, which was directly in front of his position, thus resulting in the cerebral tissue (as well as skull bone) being blown leftwards in his direction.

Which by the way would pretty well correspond with a piece of the skull being blown out and landing at Mr. Altgens feet.

Not to mention that other piece of the frontal bone of the skull of JFK which was also blown down and ultimately landed under the jumpseat in which Nellie Connally was seated.

That you, as well as many others have not "caught on" to the rationale behind the attempt to not even question Mr. Altgens, as well as the phony re-enactment photo which the WC made of the Altgens photo (Z255), aka CE9000 along with the fact that the WC never bothered to publish any of those frames past Z334, which is prior to Mr. Altgens coming into view of the Z-film, is hardly my problem.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0054a.htm

I long ago explained how the WC "changed" the position of Mr. Altgens in their re-enactment photo.

Just did not bother to explain at the time what it was all in relationship to.

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In that regards I am reminded of the saying as relates to answers to questions (which too has proven to be highly incorrect).

The saying was, to some extent:

Answers which require no thought--------------Free

Answers which require any thought-------------$1.00

Correct answers-----------------------------------Highly expensive.

The Kennedy Assassination has thoroughly demonstrated the error of this assumption since people have been "paying" for highly incorrect; erroneous; and often completely asinine answers for a long time.

Whereas the "correct" answers have always been completely free to anyone who was generally stupid enough to expend the time; monies; and energies to find these answers.

Therefore:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why is the BOH/"Blowout" to the back of the head not seen in the Z-film, and is this not evidence of film alteration?

A. The BOH/"Blowout"/final separation of those bones of the occiput did not happen until impact of the third shot which was down in front of Mr. Altgens position.

The shot at Z313 had resulted in removal of a "skull cap" section from the top of the head of JFK, which can be clearly seen in the Z-film, laying over on the right side of his face.

Removal of this portion of the skull by the shot, severely weakened the structural integrity of the remaining bone, thus leaving it highly susceptible to additional severe fracturing.

There was no damage to the occiput between the location of this shot to the head (Z313) until such time as the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position struck JFK in the EOP/Occiput area of the skull.

Thereafter, due to the already weakened position of the skull as a result of the Z313 impact, that portion of remaing skull which was below this area managed to severely fracture due to bullet impact, thus sending radiating fractures in various directions which included upwards fractures which terminated when they encountered that area where the portion of the skull was absent due to the Z313 impact.

Thus, anyone who is looking for the BOH/Blowout/EOP damage between Z313 to that point at which Mr. Altgens comes into view and the area of JFK's head is blocked from view, is looking for something which did not exist at the time, and therefore, there was little need for any alteration to the Z-film to delete something which did not exist in the first place.

SS Agent Clint Hill observed the damage after he managed to climb into the rear seat of the Presidential Limo, and as we (those who do their homework) all know, numerous Dr.'s at Parkland Hospital also observed this damage to the occiput.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. How did the "Harper" fragment get so far down Elm St. from the impact point to the head?

A. As with most other aspects, attempting to associate items which are a result of the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position, has created confusion and doubt in the minds of many.

Since the last shot did not impact until some 30+ feet farther down Elm St. than the Z313 impact position, that alone deletes a portion of the problem.

Of course, Mr. Altgens (as well as Nellie Connally) fully explain the explosive force created by the third/last/final shot, and then of course, we also have what is purportedly a skull fragment being seen on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limousine.

Nevertheless, the impact of the third shot created sufficient damage to the Occiput, as well as the frontal area of the skull of JFK that it would appear that the Harper fragment was a result of this head impact and resulting shattering of the skull.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why did Jackie attempt to climb out on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limo?

A. Well, one could state that she was attempting to recover pieces of JFK's skull which separated as a result of impact of the third/last/final shot. However, this seems most unlikely.

The "delayed" reaction, if you will, of Jackie is more likely a result of the fact that she was holding JFK and partially holding his head when the third shot blew the head apart and completed the shattering of the skull and fragmentation of the skull bone, as well as blowing cerebral matter all over Nellie Connally and the back of the coat of JBC who was laying across the open area of the jump seats.

Too include blowing this matter in the direction of Mr. Altgens.

Jackie undoubtedly "told us something" in her WC testimony which would have aided in clearing this up.

However, Specter & Company apparantly recognized the significance of this and thus we have that portion deleted from her testmony due to the "graphic" nature of here testimony.

(anyone believe that?)

Nevertheless, Jackie has stated that she was holding JFK when his head was blown apart, and most have assumed that this was in reference to the Z313 head impact.

The simple facts appear to be that Jackie was clearly holding JFK when impact from the third shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position completely blew portions of the skull apart and sent cerebral matter flying in multiple and various directions, as well as skull fragments.

With that in mind, it is time to find another place to be, or at least I can assure that I would be finding another place to be.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I had the money, I'd have a lot of answers, that's my opinion. It would take a lot of money.

I don't believe it is clear from the z-film what happened. There is certainly some precedence for doubt - including Z's testimony at the Clay Shaw trial, the publication of the frames out of sequence, the damage done to the original film, the witnesses who claim to have seen a different film, the witnesses who describe seeing something different from what we see in the film, the numerous versions of the z-film that exist with their small differences, etc. etc. As to skull fragments and brain matter - they mopped the street. They cleaned the car. Pieces of skull were found in the car, in the street, at the curb, and on the grass. As has been detailed here, many of these fragments never even made it for examination - thanks to our friendly postal inspector. The relationship of LIFE to the CIA, Clara Luce Booth, CD Jackson, etc. is disturbing. Zapruder himself is a strange character - as as stated previously, his Jennifer Juniors allegedly had ownership of the 2nd floor broom closet. It has been alleged that he was a Mason, along with his White Russian background - convenient that he was working in the DalTex, and that the TSBD was the chosen location, along with the dogleg. The bizarre phone call made by Peggy Burney. Etc. Etc.

We can go on all day without getting anywhere. What seems to be missing is a frame or two, where Kennedy receives a shot to the back of his head, throwing it forward, before receiving a shot from the front, which entered the temple. Wim has attempted to indicate that there is evidence for this, even in the frames that we have. There is a slight dipping of the head forward, which some of course have attempted to portray as the initial reaction by the head of the round entering from the rear, with a 'jet effect' afterwards, pulling it back. I don't think so. I'm no expert however.

Using Roberdeau's plat - which I know you have issues with :ice - you can see skull fragments and where they would have travelled on the basis of a z313 being the only hit to the head. It is illogical. If the Harper fragment is a piece from the rear of the skull, it is also illogical that it would have flown to the position marked by Roberdeau and Harper on the plat. It is also illogical that no one would have discovered this large fragment while the numerous individuals were scouring the grass. That fragment would have landed very close to the unidentified couple on the triangle. Why didn't they collect it? At least 2 skulls pieces had hair attached - this is also not logical, of you are dealing with a FMJ 6.5mm round? Where are those pieces?

The one Vince Drain speaks of for example.

Here's a better scenario.

The location of Dealey Plaza was preselected. Oswald was the Patsy - he was supposed to have been used through some mind control stuff, but he was a screw-up and couldn't be relied upon to carry out orders. The Plaza was carefully surveyed in the weeks prior. Locations were selected for shooting positions - both at elevation as well as at ground level. Weapons were placed in position before the arrival of the motorcade. There were a lot of folks present in Dealey Plaza who knew what was going to happen - placed there purposely. The SS made sure that there was no press flatbed riding in front. They rearranged the motorcade line-up so that the Press were unable to record any of the shooting. The arranged the Whitehouse Doctor so that he would be too far from the President's car to provide him with any medical aid. The VP was in the same motorcade for the first and only time in history. The SS and others were made to stand down, as well as other possible anti-security measures - like the DPD. Kennedy wasn't even properly flanked by DPD motorcycles. The bubbletop was intentionally left off the car - and an argument still exists that largely places the blame for this on Kennedy himself - which is ironic and convenient. It would have also have been intelligent to suggest that he chose the dogleg turn, and Ready as his security. 'Yeah, that Ivy Leaguer Rybka - leave him at Love Field! Make sure you take that hairpin on to Elm.'

Many folks believe that David Morales led what was an extensive black operation on US soil, to eliminate the Commander-in-Chief. That they used many standard tactics, like recruiting cutouts and providing information on a need-to-know basis. Compartmentalized cells were deployed. The folks who had the strongest motive were used to get the job done. Numerous operatives were used for a large variety of assignments - even as observers. Kennedy was taken out for a very large number of reasons, by a lot of people who had a large number of reasons for wanting him out - who didn't want him out? The owned media failed to do much of anything, except participate DIRECTLY in the cover-up. The FBI quickly set out to seize any record made by Johnny Q Public, to control the information. A few dirty cops at the DPD were involved. A screw-up of some kind led to Tippit being shot, and Oswald being arrested in the Theatre. There were numerous other Patsies. There was an operation at Love Field and the DalTex in the event of an abort at DP. There were signals used for the firing. I assume that the police radio channel was used in some way to accomplish this - through some form of code. As per Loy Factor, the code was received, and 'Ruth Ann' did a three count before giving a hand signal to fire - further confusing any efforts to synch the shots afterwards.

Jackie went out on the hood - hmmm. We seem to be in agreement. I have never seen any indication of a fragment out on the back of the car. It's been suggested to me that Jackie knew what was going to happen, she just didn't know when. Perhaps that is too far fetched - I have no idea. The red roses should have been a clue - she commented on them afterwards - always yellow before Dallas. She panicked and tried to get the hell out of there in fear. That is much more logical. She was scared for her own life. Even if she wasn't aware of the event - she was freaking out - and who wouldn't. If Clint Hill hadn't arrived she probably would have fallen off of the car and hit the ground running. Her husband's head just exploded in her face, and she was covered with brain matter, blood and etc. I bet there was an awful smell. The normal human reaction under these circumstances is to chase after a piece of skull? I think not.

As to paying for information - I see nothing wrong with it. I don't have that kind of money unfortunately, however, I don't see why a black op that participated in this op or other ongoing ops is going to open his / her mouth and take risks [to himself, family, associates, etc,] for the sake of John F. Kennedy [absurd], the 'truth' or the threat of 'hell.' Diming yourself out can mean connecting others. Implicating yourself can lead to exposure of other ops. And you don't get certain assignments without precautions being taken beforehand - eg 'going in dirty.' Plus as I believe I indicated before, it's my impression that folks engaged in this type of work typically signed documents which prohibits them from speaking out. Also Intel is about family. It would have to be a lot of money - otherwise, I tend to agree - you'll get a mix of info and disinfo.

What is it that changes this? The passage of time. The death of key individuals. Guilt. The recognition of that nothing has been done to help out with Cuba. That some of these folks were clearly lied to and misled. That the pay sucked. Etc. But it doesn't matter anyway - the machine will see to it that anyone who comes forward is quickly discredited anyway.

TOP POST

Do not know the exact why that this did not go to the head of the line.

Nevertheless, perhaps this will get it there.

Using Roberdeau's plat - which I know you have issues with - you can see skull fragments and where they would have travelled on the basis of a z313 being the only hit to the head.

One can rest assured that I have numerous problems with this funny paper!

And although one must give credit to it's author, not unlike many of the books and stories on the subject matter, it should be clarified as to validity of information posted.

A "disclaimer" may perhaps keep many from accepting as fact, certain portions of what is posted/drawn.

Among those "issues" which I have problems, being the assumption that a skull fragment from the Z313 shot flew forward approximately 37 feet forward and landed at Mr. Altgens feet. ( impact of Z313 to Elm St. curb/gutter at feet of Mr. Altgens location).

On the other hand, I have little difficulty with Mr. Altgens relative accurate testimony as regards the LAST SHOT fired, which was directly in front of his position, thus resulting in the cerebral tissue (as well as skull bone) being blown leftwards in his direction.

Which by the way would pretty well correspond with a piece of the skull being blown out and landing at Mr. Altgens feet.

Not to mention that other piece of the frontal bone of the skull of JFK which was also blown down and ultimately landed under the jumpseat in which Nellie Connally was seated.

That you, as well as many others have not "caught on" to the rationale behind the attempt to not even question Mr. Altgens, as well as the phony re-enactment photo which the WC made of the Altgens photo (Z255), aka CE9000 along with the fact that the WC never bothered to publish any of those frames past Z334, which is prior to Mr. Altgens coming into view of the Z-film, is hardly my problem.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0054a.htm

I long ago explained how the WC "changed" the position of Mr. Altgens in their re-enactment photo.

Just did not bother to explain at the time what it was all in relationship to.

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Share on other sites

In that regards I am reminded of the saying as relates to answers to questions (which too has proven to be highly incorrect).

The saying was, to some extent:

Answers which require no thought--------------Free

Answers which require any thought-------------$1.00

Correct answers-----------------------------------Highly expensive.

The Kennedy Assassination has thoroughly demonstrated the error of this assumption since people have been "paying" for highly incorrect; erroneous; and often completely asinine answers for a long time.

Whereas the "correct" answers have always been completely free to anyone who was generally stupid enough to expend the time; monies; and energies to find these answers.

Therefore:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why is the BOH/"Blowout" to the back of the head not seen in the Z-film, and is this not evidence of film alteration?

A. The BOH/"Blowout"/final separation of those bones of the occiput did not happen until impact of the third shot which was down in front of Mr. Altgens position.

The shot at Z313 had resulted in removal of a "skull cap" section from the top of the head of JFK, which can be clearly seen in the Z-film, laying over on the right side of his face.

Removal of this portion of the skull by the shot, severely weakened the structural integrity of the remaining bone, thus leaving it highly susceptible to additional severe fracturing.

There was no damage to the occiput between the location of this shot to the head (Z313) until such time as the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position struck JFK in the EOP/Occiput area of the skull.

Thereafter, due to the already weakened position of the skull as a result of the Z313 impact, that portion of remaing skull which was below this area managed to severely fracture due to bullet impact, thus sending radiating fractures in various directions which included upwards fractures which terminated when they encountered that area where the portion of the skull was absent due to the Z313 impact.

Thus, anyone who is looking for the BOH/Blowout/EOP damage between Z313 to that point at which Mr. Altgens comes into view and the area of JFK's head is blocked from view, is looking for something which did not exist at the time, and therefore, there was little need for any alteration to the Z-film to delete something which did not exist in the first place.

SS Agent Clint Hill observed the damage after he managed to climb into the rear seat of the Presidential Limo, and as we (those who do their homework) all know, numerous Dr.'s at Parkland Hospital also observed this damage to the occiput.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. How did the "Harper" fragment get so far down Elm St. from the impact point to the head?

A. As with most other aspects, attempting to associate items which are a result of the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position, has created confusion and doubt in the minds of many.

Since the last shot did not impact until some 30+ feet farther down Elm St. than the Z313 impact position, that alone deletes a portion of the problem.

Of course, Mr. Altgens (as well as Nellie Connally) fully explain the explosive force created by the third/last/final shot, and then of course, we also have what is purportedly a skull fragment being seen on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limousine.

Nevertheless, the impact of the third shot created sufficient damage to the Occiput, as well as the frontal area of the skull of JFK that it would appear that the Harper fragment was a result of this head impact and resulting shattering of the skull.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why did Jackie attempt to climb out on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limo?

A. Well, one could state that she was attempting to recover pieces of JFK's skull which separated as a result of impact of the third/last/final shot. However, this seems most unlikely.

The "delayed" reaction, if you will, of Jackie is more likely a result of the fact that she was holding JFK and partially holding his head when the third shot blew the head apart and completed the shattering of the skull and fragmentation of the skull bone, as well as blowing cerebral matter all over Nellie Connally and the back of the coat of JBC who was laying across the open area of the jump seats.

Too include blowing this matter in the direction of Mr. Altgens.

Jackie undoubtedly "told us something" in her WC testimony which would have aided in clearing this up.

However, Specter & Company apparantly recognized the significance of this and thus we have that portion deleted from her testmony due to the "graphic" nature of here testimony.

(anyone believe that?)

Nevertheless, Jackie has stated that she was holding JFK when his head was blown apart, and most have assumed that this was in reference to the Z313 head impact.

The simple facts appear to be that Jackie was clearly holding JFK when impact from the third shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position completely blew portions of the skull apart and sent cerebral matter flying in multiple and various directions, as well as skull fragments.

With that in mind, it is time to find another place to be, or at least I can assure that I would be finding another place to be.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I had the money, I'd have a lot of answers, that's my opinion. It would take a lot of money.

I don't believe it is clear from the z-film what happened. There is certainly some precedence for doubt - including Z's testimony at the Clay Shaw trial, the publication of the frames out of sequence, the damage done to the original film, the witnesses who claim to have seen a different film, the witnesses who describe seeing something different from what we see in the film, the numerous versions of the z-film that exist with their small differences, etc. etc. As to skull fragments and brain matter - they mopped the street. They cleaned the car. Pieces of skull were found in the car, in the street, at the curb, and on the grass. As has been detailed here, many of these fragments never even made it for examination - thanks to our friendly postal inspector. The relationship of LIFE to the CIA, Clara Luce Booth, CD Jackson, etc. is disturbing. Zapruder himself is a strange character - as as stated previously, his Jennifer Juniors allegedly had ownership of the 2nd floor broom closet. It has been alleged that he was a Mason, along with his White Russian background - convenient that he was working in the DalTex, and that the TSBD was the chosen location, along with the dogleg. The bizarre phone call made by Peggy Burney. Etc. Etc.

We can go on all day without getting anywhere. What seems to be missing is a frame or two, where Kennedy receives a shot to the back of his head, throwing it forward, before receiving a shot from the front, which entered the temple. Wim has attempted to indicate that there is evidence for this, even in the frames that we have. There is a slight dipping of the head forward, which some of course have attempted to portray as the initial reaction by the head of the round entering from the rear, with a 'jet effect' afterwards, pulling it back. I don't think so. I'm no expert however.

Using Roberdeau's plat - which I know you have issues with :ice - you can see skull fragments and where they would have travelled on the basis of a z313 being the only hit to the head. It is illogical. If the Harper fragment is a piece from the rear of the skull, it is also illogical that it would have flown to the position marked by Roberdeau and Harper on the plat. It is also illogical that no one would have discovered this large fragment while the numerous individuals were scouring the grass. That fragment would have landed very close to the unidentified couple on the triangle. Why didn't they collect it? At least 2 skulls pieces had hair attached - this is also not logical, of you are dealing with a FMJ 6.5mm round? Where are those pieces?

The one Vince Drain speaks of for example.

Here's a better scenario.

The location of Dealey Plaza was preselected. Oswald was the Patsy - he was supposed to have been used through some mind control stuff, but he was a screw-up and couldn't be relied upon to carry out orders. The Plaza was carefully surveyed in the weeks prior. Locations were selected for shooting positions - both at elevation as well as at ground level. Weapons were placed in position before the arrival of the motorcade. There were a lot of folks present in Dealey Plaza who knew what was going to happen - placed there purposely. The SS made sure that there was no press flatbed riding in front. They rearranged the motorcade line-up so that the Press were unable to record any of the shooting. The arranged the Whitehouse Doctor so that he would be too far from the President's car to provide him with any medical aid. The VP was in the same motorcade for the first and only time in history. The SS and others were made to stand down, as well as other possible anti-security measures - like the DPD. Kennedy wasn't even properly flanked by DPD motorcycles. The bubbletop was intentionally left off the car - and an argument still exists that largely places the blame for this on Kennedy himself - which is ironic and convenient. It would have also have been intelligent to suggest that he chose the dogleg turn, and Ready as his security. 'Yeah, that Ivy Leaguer Rybka - leave him at Love Field! Make sure you take that hairpin on to Elm.'

Many folks believe that David Morales led what was an extensive black operation on US soil, to eliminate the Commander-in-Chief. That they used many standard tactics, like recruiting cutouts and providing information on a need-to-know basis. Compartmentalized cells were deployed. The folks who had the strongest motive were used to get the job done. Numerous operatives were used for a large variety of assignments - even as observers. Kennedy was taken out for a very large number of reasons, by a lot of people who had a large number of reasons for wanting him out - who didn't want him out? The owned media failed to do much of anything, except participate DIRECTLY in the cover-up. The FBI quickly set out to seize any record made by Johnny Q Public, to control the information. A few dirty cops at the DPD were involved. A screw-up of some kind led to Tippit being shot, and Oswald being arrested in the Theatre. There were numerous other Patsies. There was an operation at Love Field and the DalTex in the event of an abort at DP. There were signals used for the firing. I assume that the police radio channel was used in some way to accomplish this - through some form of code. As per Loy Factor, the code was received, and 'Ruth Ann' did a three count before giving a hand signal to fire - further confusing any efforts to synch the shots afterwards.

Jackie went out on the hood - hmmm. We seem to be in agreement. I have never seen any indication of a fragment out on the back of the car. It's been suggested to me that Jackie knew what was going to happen, she just didn't know when. Perhaps that is too far fetched - I have no idea. The red roses should have been a clue - she commented on them afterwards - always yellow before Dallas. She panicked and tried to get the hell out of there in fear. That is much more logical. She was scared for her own life. Even if she wasn't aware of the event - she was freaking out - and who wouldn't. If Clint Hill hadn't arrived she probably would have fallen off of the car and hit the ground running. Her husband's head just exploded in her face, and she was covered with brain matter, blood and etc. I bet there was an awful smell. The normal human reaction under these circumstances is to chase after a piece of skull? I think not.

As to paying for information - I see nothing wrong with it. I don't have that kind of money unfortunately, however, I don't see why a black op that participated in this op or other ongoing ops is going to open his / her mouth and take risks [to himself, family, associates, etc,] for the sake of John F. Kennedy [absurd], the 'truth' or the threat of 'hell.' Diming yourself out can mean connecting others. Implicating yourself can lead to exposure of other ops. And you don't get certain assignments without precautions being taken beforehand - eg 'going in dirty.' Plus as I believe I indicated before, it's my impression that folks engaged in this type of work typically signed documents which prohibits them from speaking out. Also Intel is about family. It would have to be a lot of money - otherwise, I tend to agree - you'll get a mix of info and disinfo.

What is it that changes this? The passage of time. The death of key individuals. Guilt. The recognition of that nothing has been done to help out with Cuba. That some of these folks were clearly lied to and misled. That the pay sucked. Etc. But it doesn't matter anyway - the machine will see to it that anyone who comes forward is quickly discredited anyway.

TOP POST

Do not know the exact why that this did not go to the head of the line.

Nevertheless, perhaps this will get it there.

Using Roberdeau's plat - which I know you have issues with - you can see skull fragments and where they would have travelled on the basis of a z313 being the only hit to the head.

One can rest assured that I have numerous problems with this funny paper!

And although one must give credit to it's author, not unlike many of the books and stories on the subject matter, it should be clarified as to validity of information posted.

A "disclaimer" may perhaps keep many from accepting as fact, certain portions of what is posted/drawn.

Among those "issues" which I have problems, being the assumption that a skull fragment from the Z313 shot flew forward approximately 37 feet forward and landed at Mr. Altgens feet. ( impact of Z313 to Elm St. curb/gutter at feet of Mr. Altgens location).

On the other hand, I have little difficulty with Mr. Altgens relative accurate testimony as regards the LAST SHOT fired, which was directly in front of his position, thus resulting in the cerebral tissue (as well as skull bone) being blown leftwards in his direction.

Which by the way would pretty well correspond with a piece of the skull being blown out and landing at Mr. Altgens feet.

Not to mention that other piece of the frontal bone of the skull of JFK which was also blown down and ultimately landed under the jumpseat in which Nellie Connally was seated.

That you, as well as many others have not "caught on" to the rationale behind the attempt to not even question Mr. Altgens, as well as the phony re-enactment photo which the WC made of the Altgens photo (Z255), aka CE9000 along with the fact that the WC never bothered to publish any of those frames past Z334, which is prior to Mr. Altgens coming into view of the Z-film, is hardly my problem.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0054a.htm

I long ago explained how the WC "changed" the position of Mr. Altgens in their re-enactment photo.

Just did not bother to explain at the time what it was all in relationship to.

From another topic, Mr. Speer asked an entirely reasonable question.

Tom, is there anything explaining how the SS determined the location of the shots during their survey? It seems possible they just half-assed it, sayng well, Kennedy was shot when he came from behind the sign, and the head-shot was somewhere near the steps, so the second shot must have come somewhere in between..

Pat;

The US Secret Service survey work and re-enactment were the accurate ones.

I have included one page of the survey notes of Mr. West, which demonstrate the detail to which he/his personnel went to in order to assure accuracy.

Also, the WC determined that no survey work was necessary past the Z313 point, whereas the US Secret Service work carried the survey as well as stationing numbers all the way down to the overpass.

Stationing 5+50 was 5' from the "bridge, and thereafter one additional stationing at 5+75 was measured, which effectively was 20' under the triple overpass.

And, the actual exact position on Elm St that was surveyed in by Mr. West for impact of the third/last/final shot was at stationing 4+95. (not the "approximate" 4' from 5+00 as referenced by the SS Album.)

Lastly, other than the impact point for shots fired, Mr. West merely surveyed in points along Elm St. at 25-foot intervals, beginning from the control station which was back at the intersection of Elm & Houston.

Hope that answers a few of your questions.

Tom

Edited by Thomas H. Purvis
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In that regards I am reminded of the saying as relates to answers to questions (which too has proven to be highly incorrect).

The saying was, to some extent:

Answers which require no thought--------------Free

Answers which require any thought-------------$1.00

Correct answers-----------------------------------Highly expensive.

The Kennedy Assassination has thoroughly demonstrated the error of this assumption since people have been "paying" for highly incorrect; erroneous; and often completely asinine answers for a long time.

Whereas the "correct" answers have always been completely free to anyone who was generally stupid enough to expend the time; monies; and energies to find these answers.

Therefore:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why is the BOH/"Blowout" to the back of the head not seen in the Z-film, and is this not evidence of film alteration?

A. The BOH/"Blowout"/final separation of those bones of the occiput did not happen until impact of the third shot which was down in front of Mr. Altgens position.

The shot at Z313 had resulted in removal of a "skull cap" section from the top of the head of JFK, which can be clearly seen in the Z-film, laying over on the right side of his face.

Removal of this portion of the skull by the shot, severely weakened the structural integrity of the remaining bone, thus leaving it highly susceptible to additional severe fracturing.

There was no damage to the occiput between the location of this shot to the head (Z313) until such time as the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position struck JFK in the EOP/Occiput area of the skull.

Thereafter, due to the already weakened position of the skull as a result of the Z313 impact, that portion of remaing skull which was below this area managed to severely fracture due to bullet impact, thus sending radiating fractures in various directions which included upwards fractures which terminated when they encountered that area where the portion of the skull was absent due to the Z313 impact.

Thus, anyone who is looking for the BOH/Blowout/EOP damage between Z313 to that point at which Mr. Altgens comes into view and the area of JFK's head is blocked from view, is looking for something which did not exist at the time, and therefore, there was little need for any alteration to the Z-film to delete something which did not exist in the first place.

SS Agent Clint Hill observed the damage after he managed to climb into the rear seat of the Presidential Limo, and as we (those who do their homework) all know, numerous Dr.'s at Parkland Hospital also observed this damage to the occiput.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. How did the "Harper" fragment get so far down Elm St. from the impact point to the head?

A. As with most other aspects, attempting to associate items which are a result of the third/last/final shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position, has created confusion and doubt in the minds of many.

Since the last shot did not impact until some 30+ feet farther down Elm St. than the Z313 impact position, that alone deletes a portion of the problem.

Of course, Mr. Altgens (as well as Nellie Connally) fully explain the explosive force created by the third/last/final shot, and then of course, we also have what is purportedly a skull fragment being seen on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limousine.

Nevertheless, the impact of the third shot created sufficient damage to the Occiput, as well as the frontal area of the skull of JFK that it would appear that the Harper fragment was a result of this head impact and resulting shattering of the skull.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. Why did Jackie attempt to climb out on the back/trunk of the Presidential Limo?

A. Well, one could state that she was attempting to recover pieces of JFK's skull which separated as a result of impact of the third/last/final shot. However, this seems most unlikely.

The "delayed" reaction, if you will, of Jackie is more likely a result of the fact that she was holding JFK and partially holding his head when the third shot blew the head apart and completed the shattering of the skull and fragmentation of the skull bone, as well as blowing cerebral matter all over Nellie Connally and the back of the coat of JBC who was laying across the open area of the jump seats.

Too include blowing this matter in the direction of Mr. Altgens.

Jackie undoubtedly "told us something" in her WC testimony which would have aided in clearing this up.

However, Specter & Company apparantly recognized the significance of this and thus we have that portion deleted from her testmony due to the "graphic" nature of here testimony.

(anyone believe that?)

Nevertheless, Jackie has stated that she was holding JFK when his head was blown apart, and most have assumed that this was in reference to the Z313 head impact.

The simple facts appear to be that Jackie was clearly holding JFK when impact from the third shot down in front of Mr. Altgens position completely blew portions of the skull apart and sent cerebral matter flying in multiple and various directions, as well as skull fragments.

With that in mind, it is time to find another place to be, or at least I can assure that I would be finding another place to be.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I had the money, I'd have a lot of answers, that's my opinion. It would take a lot of money.

I don't believe it is clear from the z-film what happened. There is certainly some precedence for doubt - including Z's testimony at the Clay Shaw trial, the publication of the frames out of sequence, the damage done to the original film, the witnesses who claim to have seen a different film, the witnesses who describe seeing something different from what we see in the film, the numerous versions of the z-film that exist with their small differences, etc. etc. As to skull fragments and brain matter - they mopped the street. They cleaned the car. Pieces of skull were found in the car, in the street, at the curb, and on the grass. As has been detailed here, many of these fragments never even made it for examination - thanks to our friendly postal inspector. The relationship of LIFE to the CIA, Clara Luce Booth, CD Jackson, etc. is disturbing. Zapruder himself is a strange character - as as stated previously, his Jennifer Juniors allegedly had ownership of the 2nd floor broom closet. It has been alleged that he was a Mason, along with his White Russian background - convenient that he was working in the DalTex, and that the TSBD was the chosen location, along with the dogleg. The bizarre phone call made by Peggy Burney. Etc. Etc.

We can go on all day without getting anywhere. What seems to be missing is a frame or two, where Kennedy receives a shot to the back of his head, throwing it forward, before receiving a shot from the front, which entered the temple. Wim has attempted to indicate that there is evidence for this, even in the frames that we have. There is a slight dipping of the head forward, which some of course have attempted to portray as the initial reaction by the head of the round entering from the rear, with a 'jet effect' afterwards, pulling it back. I don't think so. I'm no expert however.

Using Roberdeau's plat - which I know you have issues with :) - you can see skull fragments and where they would have travelled on the basis of a z313 being the only hit to the head. It is illogical. If the Harper fragment is a piece from the rear of the skull, it is also illogical that it would have flown to the position marked by Roberdeau and Harper on the plat. It is also illogical that no one would have discovered this large fragment while the numerous individuals were scouring the grass. That fragment would have landed very close to the unidentified couple on the triangle. Why didn't they collect it? At least 2 skulls pieces had hair attached - this is also not logical, of you are dealing with a FMJ 6.5mm round? Where are those pieces?

The one Vince Drain speaks of for example.

Here's a better scenario.

The location of Dealey Plaza was preselected. Oswald was the Patsy - he was supposed to have been used through some mind control stuff, but he was a screw-up and couldn't be relied upon to carry out orders. The Plaza was carefully surveyed in the weeks prior. Locations were selected for shooting positions - both at elevation as well as at ground level. Weapons were placed in position before the arrival of the motorcade. There were a lot of folks present in Dealey Plaza who knew what was going to happen - placed there purposely. The SS made sure that there was no press flatbed riding in front. They rearranged the motorcade line-up so that the Press were unable to record any of the shooting. The arranged the Whitehouse Doctor so that he would be too far from the President's car to provide him with any medical aid. The VP was in the same motorcade for the first and only time in history. The SS and others were made to stand down, as well as other possible anti-security measures - like the DPD. Kennedy wasn't even properly flanked by DPD motorcycles. The bubbletop was intentionally left off the car - and an argument still exists that largely places the blame for this on Kennedy himself - which is ironic and convenient. It would have also have been intelligent to suggest that he chose the dogleg turn, and Ready as his security. 'Yeah, that Ivy Leaguer Rybka - leave him at Love Field! Make sure you take that hairpin on to Elm.'

Many folks believe that David Morales led what was an extensive black operation on US soil, to eliminate the Commander-in-Chief. That they used many standard tactics, like recruiting cutouts and providing information on a need-to-know basis. Compartmentalized cells were deployed. The folks who had the strongest motive were used to get the job done. Numerous operatives were used for a large variety of assignments - even as observers. Kennedy was taken out for a very large number of reasons, by a lot of people who had a large number of reasons for wanting him out - who didn't want him out? The owned media failed to do much of anything, except participate DIRECTLY in the cover-up. The FBI quickly set out to seize any record made by Johnny Q Public, to control the information. A few dirty cops at the DPD were involved. A screw-up of some kind led to Tippit being shot, and Oswald being arrested in the Theatre. There were numerous other Patsies. There was an operation at Love Field and the DalTex in the event of an abort at DP. There were signals used for the firing. I assume that the police radio channel was used in some way to accomplish this - through some form of code. As per Loy Factor, the code was received, and 'Ruth Ann' did a three count before giving a hand signal to fire - further confusing any efforts to synch the shots afterwards.

Jackie went out on the hood - hmmm. We seem to be in agreement. I have never seen any indication of a fragment out on the back of the car. It's been suggested to me that Jackie knew what was going to happen, she just didn't know when. Perhaps that is too far fetched - I have no idea. The red roses should have been a clue - she commented on them afterwards - always yellow before Dallas. She panicked and tried to get the hell out of there in fear. That is much more logical. She was scared for her own life. Even if she wasn't aware of the event - she was freaking out - and who wouldn't. If Clint Hill hadn't arrived she probably would have fallen off of the car and hit the ground running. Her husband's head just exploded in her face, and she was covered with brain matter, blood and etc. I bet there was an awful smell. The normal human reaction under these circumstances is to chase after a piece of skull? I think not.

As to paying for information - I see nothing wrong with it. I don't have that kind of money unfortunately, however, I don't see why a black op that participated in this op or other ongoing ops is going to open his / her mouth and take risks [to himself, family, associates, etc,] for the sake of John F. Kennedy [absurd], the 'truth' or the threat of 'hell.' Diming yourself out can mean connecting others. Implicating yourself can lead to exposure of other ops. And you don't get certain assignments without precautions being taken beforehand - eg 'going in dirty.' Plus as I believe I indicated before, it's my impression that folks engaged in this type of work typically signed documents which prohibits them from speaking out. Also Intel is about family. It would have to be a lot of money - otherwise, I tend to agree - you'll get a mix of info and disinfo.

What is it that changes this? The passage of time. The death of key individuals. Guilt. The recognition of that nothing has been done to help out with Cuba. That some of these folks were clearly lied to and misled. That the pay sucked. Etc. But it doesn't matter anyway - the machine will see to it that anyone who comes forward is quickly discredited anyway.

TOP POST

Do not know the exact why that this did not go to the head of the line.

Nevertheless, perhaps this will get it there.

Using Roberdeau's plat - which I know you have issues with - you can see skull fragments and where they would have travelled on the basis of a z313 being the only hit to the head.

One can rest assured that I have numerous problems with this funny paper!

And although one must give credit to it's author, not unlike many of the books and stories on the subject matter, it should be clarified as to validity of information posted.

A "disclaimer" may perhaps keep many from accepting as fact, certain portions of what is posted/drawn.

Among those "issues" which I have problems, being the assumption that a skull fragment from the Z313 shot flew forward approximately 37 feet forward and landed at Mr. Altgens feet. ( impact of Z313 to Elm St. curb/gutter at feet of Mr. Altgens location).

On the other hand, I have little difficulty with Mr. Altgens relative accurate testimony as regards the LAST SHOT fired, which was directly in front of his position, thus resulting in the cerebral tissue (as well as skull bone) being blown leftwards in his direction.

Which by the way would pretty well correspond with a piece of the skull being blown out and landing at Mr. Altgens feet.

Not to mention that other piece of the frontal bone of the skull of JFK which was also blown down and ultimately landed under the jumpseat in which Nellie Connally was seated.

That you, as well as many others have not "caught on" to the rationale behind the attempt to not even question Mr. Altgens, as well as the phony re-enactment photo which the WC made of the Altgens photo (Z255), aka CE9000 along with the fact that the WC never bothered to publish any of those frames past Z334, which is prior to Mr. Altgens coming into view of the Z-film, is hardly my problem.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0054a.htm

I long ago explained how the WC "changed" the position of Mr. Altgens in their re-enactment photo.

Just did not bother to explain at the time what it was all in relationship to.

From another topic, Mr. Speer asked an entirely reasonable question.

Tom, is there anything explaining how the SS determined the location of the shots during their survey? It seems possible they just half-assed it, sayng well, Kennedy was shot when he came from behind the sign, and the head-shot was somewhere near the steps, so the second shot must have come somewhere in between..

Pat;

The US Secret Service survey work and re-enactment were the accurate ones.

I have included one page of the survey notes of Mr. West, which demonstrate the detail to which he/his personnel went to in order to assure accuracy.

Also, the WC determined that no survey work was necessary past the Z313 point, whereas the US Secret Service work carried the survey as well as stationing numbers all the way down to the overpass.

Stationing 5+50 was 5' from the "bridge, and thereafter one additional stationing at 5+75 was measured, which effectively was 20' under the triple overpass.

And, the actual exact position on Elm St that was surveyed in by Mr. West for impact of the third/last/final shot was at stationing 4+95. (not the "approximate" 4' from 5+00 as referenced by the SS Album.)

Lastly, other than the impact point for shots fired, Mr. West merely surveyed in points along Elm St. at 25-foot intervals, beginning from the control station which was back at the intersection of Elm & Houston.

Hope that answers a few of your questions.

Tom

Truthfully, one should not climb so far out on the limb unless they are absolutely certain of the facts.

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Truthfully, one should not climb so far out on the limb unless they are absolutely certain of the facts.

I am curious to know what kind of reply you received.

- lee

My replies were received prior, nevertheless all correspondenc was continually addressed to the Attorney General as the FBI often has ways to make things disappear.

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Truthfully, one should not climb so far out on the limb unless they are absolutely certain of the facts.

I am curious to know what kind of reply you received.

- lee

My replies were received prior, nevertheless all correspondenc was continually addressed to the Attorney General as the FBI often has ways to make things disappear.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0449a.htm

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