The Strange Case of Lieutenant J. C. Day

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Is Armstrong referring to a different package?

Lee;

An attempt to deliver a package to LHO at the Paine address on 2515 West 5th St, happened on November 20, 1963.

The notice of attempt to deliver the package was found among LHO's possessions at his apartment in Dallas when it was searched.

Since the notice to deliver refereces the Paine address, it would seem unlikely that these are the same two packages.

It can be assumed that LHO acquired the notice of attempt to deliver, when he went to the Paine residence and spent the night of 11/21/63.

However, this would also mean that he had to drop off the notice after he left the TSDB and returned to the apartment.

Thanks for that Tom - it didn't sound as if it was the same package. I had never thought about that concept before [the notice and the timing] - makes sense.

John - perhaps there is an easier explanation. There doesn't seem to be a 'Nassaus' street anywhere - not Dallas, New Orleans, New York, etc. There is a 'Nassau' street in NY, plus a County, etc. There is also Nassau as in the Bahamas.

However, a simpler explanation may simply be that the address in question was a deliberate message - ie, delivered to a non-existent address purposely, in order to end up with Harry Holmes, from Lee. Make sense perhaps? That way he doesn't have to be seen actually going to the Post Office, and he also doesn't have to address something directly. Just a thought.

- lee

Lee & John;

LHO, had been fully "coached" on a considerable number of items throughout his charades. Beginning back prior to his sojourn to the USSR.

Therefore, and based on the fact that the FBI had been to visit the Paine address, one must assume that LHO was aware of some of the means by which he was being kept track of.

In that regards, comes the US Post Office methods of informants and keeping track of Communists, etc; through the mail system.

Therefore, one must back off and look at the usage of the postal system by LHO in an entirely different light when it comes to ALL of his mailing activities.

Since LHO obviously did not want the FBI to know about his move to the Beckley address (O.H.Lee), and if one assumes that their "NAME" sends up a flag in the Post Office, then what better way to leave another false scent (please recall the actions of squirrels jumping on trees), then to mail something to oneself at a completely false address, and thereafter send the hounds looking for someone at an address which does not even exist.

Tom

[John Dolva]

Yes Tom, but does that really make sense? Other things were mailed to him at the correct address, including the post box.

One thing with an undeliverable address is that it means it ends up in the dead letter dept. ie. it's out of the loop and onlly accessible to a limited number of people. It served some purpose, but what that purpose is is not so clear.

Here we have a couple of clear thinking people with two different explanations. Elsewhere I've come across a few different explanations again. What I'm trying to do in the 'curtains' thread is to gather some background info related to the matter. Once as much as possible is gathered perhaps a more definite statement can be made.

Either of you (Lee and Tom) may be right.

To me it's a puzzle. It could be that knowing the answer is more important than one might think. The fact that Harry is somehow involved is interesting. The fact that almost all the letters of the address (bar 3) can be easily arranged to spell ASSASSINATE* is a remarkable coincidence. The fact that the 'gun sack' when folded appears to fit very nicely into the envelope is very interesting as far as a consideration of 'gun sack' origin and the finger/palm prints on it. Then we have Nassaus Window Furnishings and curtains/rods. A lot of peculiar features that must mean something. But what? Something meaningful or something benign? Is the existence of it a proof of Lees guilt/involvement? Proof of a conspiracy? Nothing?

EDIT:: *my mistake, I transcribed the address incorrectly turning an s into an a

so it's::

6 0 1 ___ . W E S T ___ . . . . . U . . T ____A S S A S S I N

which makes me wonder if "610 west UT" means anything as far as the university goes

Edited November 5, 2006 by John Dolva

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Yes Tom, but does that really make sense? Other things were mailed to him at the correct address, including the post box.

One thing with an undeliverable address is that it means it ends up in the dead letter dept. ie. it's out of the loop and onlly accessible to a limited number of people. It served some purpose, but what that purpose is is not so clear.

Here we have a couple of clear thinking people with two different explanations. Elsewhere I've come across a few different explanations again. What I'm trying to do in the 'curtains' thread is to gather some background info related to the matter. Once as much as possible is gathered perhaps a more definite statement can be made.

Either of you (Lee and Tom) may be right.

To me it's a puzzle. It could be that knowing the answer is more important than one might think. The fact that Harry is somehow involved is interesting. The fact that almost all the letters of the address (bar 3) can be easily arranged to spell ASSASSINATE is a remarkable coincidence. The fact that the 'gun sack' when folded appears to fit very nicely into the envelope is very interesting as far as a consideration of 'gun sack' origin and the finger/palm prints on it. Then we have Nassaus Window Furnishings and curtains/rods. A lot of peculiar features that must mean something. But what? Something meaningful or something benign? Is the existence of it a proof of Lees guilt/involvement? Proof of a conspiracy? Nothing?

The "curtain rod"/bag issue is certainly one which warrants further investigation, and although it was my attention to go back to something useful after completion of posting information relative to the survey slight-of-hand work, perhaps the "bag" issue is well worth additional exploration, not unlike the curb strike issue in which all initial reports claim that none of the curb was in fact chipped away on initial examination of the impact point.

[Duke Lane]

Perhaps 601 murdock (which is a vacant lot in 1986 at least) is just an address picked by someone passing there regularly ....

I am looking at the tax rolls for Dallas County right now, and there is no parcel legally described as '601' Murdock anywhere in the county. The only 'Murdock' is in Dallas, and of 14 parcels numbered between 500 and 625, 11 of them have assessed values under $50,000; four of them have improvements with under 1000 square feet (with two more being 1000-1200 sqft); and five of them - #600, 605, 609, 547 and 543 - show no improvements at all, i.e., vacant lots. (The 500s were included only to include the possibly of '501' being mistakenly written as '601.') The largest of the improvements in this block is under 2100 sqft.

The parcels on the Nassau Circles (North and South) are all numbered between 7000 and 8999. The largest home on the Nassaus is 2052 sqft.

In a neighborhood as old as this one is, it is unusual for two or more parcels to be combined into one (e.g., 601 and 605), and rarer still - even in newer, larger subdivisions - that they're combined into a parcel with the higher number (i.e., if 601 and 605 were combined, they more likely would become 601 than 605).

[John Dolva]

Perhaps 601 murdock (which is a vacant lot in 1986 at least) is just an address picked by someone passing there regularly ....

I am looking at the tax rolls for Dallas County right now, and there is no parcel legally described as '601' Murdock anywhere in the county. The only 'Murdock' is in Dallas, and of 14 parcels numbered between 500 and 625, 11 of them have assessed values under $50,000; four of them have improvements with under 1000 square feet (with two more being 1000-1200 sqft); and five of them - #600, 605, 609, 547 and 543 - show no improvements at all, i.e., vacant lots. (The 500s were included only to include the possibly of '501' being mistakenly written as '601.') The largest of the improvements in this block is under 2100 sqft.

The parcels on the Nassau Circles (North and South) are all numbered between 7000 and 8999. The largest home on the Nassaus is 2052 sqft.

In a neighborhood as old as this one is, it is unusual for two or more parcels to be combined into one (e.g., 601 and 605), and rarer still - even in newer, larger subdivisions - that they're combined into a parcel with the higher number (i.e., if 601 and 605 were combined, they more likely would become 601 than 605).

Ok, I don't know how google and yahoo do their map numberings.

I also don't understand the numbering that the County records have. Is a a parcel what we here in australia call a 'lot', and once it has a house on it the house number is usually different.

In this instance though, a postal address, whether false or real, would be for a house. Anyway there doesn't seem to be a house there as early as 1986. Was there one there in 1963. I don't really understand the information you have provided Duke.

It seems to me that without a house very near or just there it would be hard to work out that the corner is 601?

Yahoo and Google both place 601 Murdock on the corner of N Nassau Cir and Murdock Rd, and both look vacant, and the nearest house there on Murdock as 611.

And the corner is given as 8098 on N Nassau Cir.

Edited November 5, 2006 by John Dolva

[John Kennedy White]

Duke joked:

"Jack :: John

White :: White

Kennedy :: just a hobby? (c'mon, what's up with that?)"

I do not get the joke. Please explain.

Jack

You're Jack White. He's John ("Jack?") White. Your avocation is Kennedy. His middle name is Kennedy. Could you possibly be one person just using different photos and writing back and forth to each other? Hmmm....

I'm very real... check my IP address... hard for Jack to fake living in Winnipeg. For that matter, who would pretend to be from Winnipeg?

[Lee Forman]

Is Armstrong referring to a different package?

Lee;

An attempt to deliver a package to LHO at the Paine address on 2515 West 5th St, happened on November 20, 1963.

The notice of attempt to deliver the package was found among LHO's possessions at his apartment in Dallas when it was searched.

Since the notice to deliver refereces the Paine address, it would seem unlikely that these are the same two packages.

It can be assumed that LHO acquired the notice of attempt to deliver, when he went to the Paine residence and spent the night of 11/21/63.

However, this would also mean that he had to drop off the notice after he left the TSDB and returned to the apartment.

Thanks for that Tom - it didn't sound as if it was the same package. I had never thought about that concept before [the notice and the timing] - makes sense.

John - perhaps there is an easier explanation. There doesn't seem to be a 'Nassaus' street anywhere - not Dallas, New Orleans, New York, etc. There is a 'Nassau' street in NY, plus a County, etc. There is also Nassau as in the Bahamas.

However, a simpler explanation may simply be that the address in question was a deliberate message - ie, delivered to a non-existent address purposely, in order to end up with Harry Holmes, from Lee. Make sense perhaps? That way he doesn't have to be seen actually going to the Post Office, and he also doesn't have to address something directly. Just a thought.

- lee

Lee & John;

LHO, had been fully "coached" on a considerable number of items throughout his charades. Beginning back prior to his sojourn to the USSR.

Therefore, and based on the fact that the FBI had been to visit the Paine address, one must assume that LHO was aware of some of the means by which he was being kept track of.

In that regards, comes the US Post Office methods of informants and keeping track of Communists, etc; through the mail system.

Therefore, one must back off and look at the usage of the postal system by LHO in an entirely different light when it comes to ALL of his mailing activities.

Since LHO obviously did not want the FBI to know about his move to the Beckley address (O.H.Lee), and if one assumes that their "NAME" sends up a flag in the Post Office, then what better way to leave another false scent (please recall the actions of squirrels jumping on trees), then to mail something to oneself at a completely false address, and thereafter send the hounds looking for someone at an address which does not even exist.

Tom

I think that's brilliant Tom.

- lee

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Is Armstrong referring to a different package?

Lee;

An attempt to deliver a package to LHO at the Paine address on 2515 West 5th St, happened on November 20, 1963.

The notice of attempt to deliver the package was found among LHO's possessions at his apartment in Dallas when it was searched.

Since the notice to deliver refereces the Paine address, it would seem unlikely that these are the same two packages.

It can be assumed that LHO acquired the notice of attempt to deliver, when he went to the Paine residence and spent the night of 11/21/63.

However, this would also mean that he had to drop off the notice after he left the TSDB and returned to the apartment.

Thanks for that Tom - it didn't sound as if it was the same package. I had never thought about that concept before [the notice and the timing] - makes sense.

John - perhaps there is an easier explanation. There doesn't seem to be a 'Nassaus' street anywhere - not Dallas, New Orleans, New York, etc. There is a 'Nassau' street in NY, plus a County, etc. There is also Nassau as in the Bahamas.

However, a simpler explanation may simply be that the address in question was a deliberate message - ie, delivered to a non-existent address purposely, in order to end up with Harry Holmes, from Lee. Make sense perhaps? That way he doesn't have to be seen actually going to the Post Office, and he also doesn't have to address something directly. Just a thought.

- lee

Lee & John;

LHO, had been fully "coached" on a considerable number of items throughout his charades. Beginning back prior to his sojourn to the USSR.

Therefore, and based on the fact that the FBI had been to visit the Paine address, one must assume that LHO was aware of some of the means by which he was being kept track of.

In that regards, comes the US Post Office methods of informants and keeping track of Communists, etc; through the mail system.

Therefore, one must back off and look at the usage of the postal system by LHO in an entirely different light when it comes to ALL of his mailing activities.

Since LHO obviously did not want the FBI to know about his move to the Beckley address (O.H.Lee), and if one assumes that their "NAME" sends up a flag in the Post Office, then what better way to leave another false scent (please recall the actions of squirrels jumping on trees), then to mail something to oneself at a completely false address, and thereafter send the hounds looking for someone at an address which does not even exist.

Tom

I think that's brilliant Tom.

- lee

Nah!

Just an attempt to make some sense of the various games that LHO was playing with his "name games" P.O. Box address games, and movements.

When he went to the FBI Office in Dallas, he was considerably upset that the FBI had come to the Paine home, thus indicating that his whereabouts was again known.

A part of his short trip back to New Orleans appears to be to have convinced the Dallas area that LHO was no longer in the vicinity of Dallas, and that he was now in N.O. making himself obvious.

Then, back into Dallas, a Beckley address under the name O. H. Lee, etc;, all of which appears to have been by design and by plan.

All of which tends to indicate that LHO was considerably more than just a "Lone Nut".

As example: His correspondence to the "Fair Play for Cuba Committee" would have placed him on an immediate watch list.

And, just to insure that they were watching, wave/hand out a few leaflets, get arrested, and then ask to speak to the FBI.

All of which is just a little bit too obvious for me to swallow as being real.

When he could not get the attention by handing out the leaflets down at the docks to active duty Naval personnel, then what better way in NO to get arrested than to start a fight on the streets.

LHO was from NO. He therefore knew exactly what this would get him.