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TSBD set-up


Lee Forman
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This is a placeholder. I believe a case can be made in retrospect, that there was no shooter on the 6th floor, but that this was a manufactured ploy, after-the-fact. This does not mean that there may not have been a decoy of some kind on the 6th.

Whenever I read the Warren Report, I always begin with the assumption that anyone involved in the questioning - Belin, Ford, Dulles, Specter, etc., knows precisely where the shooters were located, and what transpired. Then it is easier to follow them, and understand their method of questioning, sudden unrelated blurting, off-record conversations, etc. Also, worth noting - we can't see anything non-verbal here. We have no clue if there was any strange body language, hand movements, hand written notes, or even that the exhibits shown to the witnesses were the same as were eventually published in the Warren Report - you just have to take their word for it - as respected and trustworthy men of integrity in the US Government.

Anyone feel free to jump in.

I'll start here:

1. Dillard vs Brennan

The attached Dillard is an example of where Brennan and Jackson located the 2 black men that they claimed to have seen in the TSBD windows, on the FIFTH floor, during the shooting. Dillard's recollection sounded closer to Jackson's, however, he seems to have been unsure. The numbering used for Dillard is what we see in his 'print' - not based upon what he said in his testimony.

Dillard took 2 photos of the TSBD, shortly after the shots were fired. He doesn't remember who developed the negatives. He 'printed' them. They appear to show three black employees of the TSBD, spaced out in 3 of 4 windows on the FIFTH floor. He never saw the rifle barrel mentioned to him by Jackson - who is the one indicating the SIXTH floor window to him as per his recollection. He fails to see or photograph a rifle barrel. He doesn't recall having seen 3 men - he saw 2 men, below the SIXTH floor window --- indicated to him by Jackson.

Let's swing over to Bob Jackson briefly.

Mr. JACKSON - Right here approximately. And as we heard the first shot, I believe it was Tom Dillard from the Dallas News who made some remark as to that sounding like a firecracker, and it could have been somebody else who said that. But someone else did speak up and make that comment and before he actually the sentence we heard the other two shots. Then we realized or we thought it was gunfire, and then we could not at that point see the President's car. We were still moving slowly, and after the third shot the second two shots seemed much closer together than the first shot, than they were to the first shot. Then after the last shot, I guess all of us were just looking all around and I just looked straight up ahead of me which would have been looking at the School Book Depository and I noticed two Negro men in a window straining to see directly above them, and my eyes followed right on up to the window above them and I saw the rifle, or what looked like a rifle approximately half of weapon, I guess I saw. and just looked at it, it was drawn fairly slowly back into the building, and I saw no one in the window with it. I didn't even see a form in the window.

Bob has 2 black men in 'a' window. They are straining to see what is above them - it seems to imply that they are hanging a bit out the window, but since that is not what Bob says, let's leave that one for the moment. Bob also sees the rifle - it is drawn back in slowly - he saw quite a bit of it. That smacks me as deliberate - he never sees anyone associated with the rifle. I wonder how far he is from Brennan position at this point - not far, as I recall having tried to map it out once.

Mr. SPECTER - What did you do next?

Mr. JACKSON - I said "There is the gun," or it came from that window. I tried to point it out. But by the time the other people looked up, of course, it was gone, and about that time, we were beginning to turn the corner.

Sounds close to what Dillard recalled Jackson having said.

"there's the rifle barrel up there." And then he said it was the second from the top in the right hand side
Mr. SPECTER - Which corner were you beginning to turn?

Mr. JACKSON - Houston onto Elm.

Mr. SPECTER - I now show you a photograph marked as Commission Exhibit No. 348 and ask you if you can identify what that depicts?

Mr. JACKSON - This is the School Book Depository. This is the window the two colored men were looking out of. This is the window where the rifle was.

Mr. SPECTER - Will you mark the window where the rifle was with an "A" and would you please mark the window where you have identified the men below with a "B."

(Witness marking.)

Mr. SPECTER - Referring to your mark of "A," the photograph will show that you have marked the window on the sixth floor with the marking being placed on the window on the westerly half of the first double window.

Mr. JACKSON - I am sorry. This window here on the very end was the window where the weapon was. I am sorry, I just marked the double - actually this is the rifle window right here.

So Bob has just done 2 things here. One, he has mistakenly identified the window in the SIXTH floor as being the one next to the 'alleged' sniper window, and he has corrected it. Sounds innocent. I can't watch a video tape to know why he is sorry, and how he realized his error - aside from Specter's recap. The second item, is that Jackson has placed the Two black men in one window - the window directly below. This is inconsistent with the Dillard 'print.' It is also inconsistent with Brennan.

Mr. DILLARD - The School Book Depository. And at the same time I brought my camera up and I was looking for the window. Now this was after the third shot and Jackson said, "there's the rifle barrel up there." And then he said it was the second from the top in the right hand side, and I swung t it and there was two figures below, and I just shot with one camera, 100-mm. Lens on a 35-mm. Camera which is approximately a two times daily photo twice normal lens and a wide angle on a 35-mm. Which took in a considerable portion of the building and I shot those pictures in rapid sequence with the two cameras.
Mr. BALL - Did you see a rifle barrel?

Mr. DILLARD - No.

Mr. BALL - But you did see some figures or forms in the window?

Mr. DILLARD - Only in the windows which was the windows below?

Mr. BALL - How many forms did you see in the window below?

Mr. DILLARD - I saw two men in the windows, at least the arched windows. I saw them in my picture. I was making the picture my eyes were covering.

Mr. BALL - You saw them as you were taking the picture?

Mr. DILLARD - I may have; I don't know.

Mr. BALL - Do you remember if you saw two or three figures?

Mr. DILLARD - I don't remember.

Mr. BALL - But you did see some figures and you can not be accurate?

Mr. DILLARD - Right.

Mr. BALL - You developed your pictures, didn't you?

Mr. DILLARD - I don't remember.

Mr. BALL - Or did you turn them over?

Mr. DILLARD - I printed them.

Howard Brennan has it that he saw 2 black men, both together in one window, on the FIFTH floor - the unopened window. This is obviously totally contrary to what we see in the Dillard exhibit.

Mr. BELIN. Here is a marking pencil. Will you just mark the window that you believe you saw the man.

All right.

And do you want to put a letter "A", if you would, by that.

All right, now you have marked on Commission Exhibit 477 a circle with the letter "A" to show the window that you saw a man in, I believe you said, at least two times come back and forth.

Mr. BRENNAN. Yes

Mr. BELIN. Did you see any other people in any other windows that you can recollect?

Mr. BRENNAN. Not on that floor.

There was no other person on that floor that ever came to the window that I noticed.

There were people on the next floor down, which is the fifth floor, colored guys. In particular, I only remember two that I identified. Mr. BELIN. Do you want to mark the window with the circle that you believe you saw some Negro people on the fifth floor. Could you do that with this marking pencil on Exhibit 477, please?

Mr. BRENNAN. The two that I identified, I believe, was in this window.

Mr. BELIN. You want to put a "B" on that one?

Now, after you saw the man--well, just tell what else you saw during that afternoon.

Wouldn't you have appreciated the opportunity to cross examine Mr. Brennan yourself, as opposed to allowing Belin and Ford to do it?

Mr. BRENNAN. Spoke to Mr. Sorrels, and told him that those were the two colored boys that was on the fifth floor, or on the next floor underneath the man that fired the gun.

Which says that you aren't sure it was the Fifth Floor at all?

Representative FORD. You positively identified them?

Mr. BRENNAN. I did, at that time.

Mr. BELIN. Is there anything else now up to the time you got down to the Dallas Police Station?

Mr. BRENNAN. Well, nothing except that up until that time, through my entire life, I could never remember what a colored person looked like if he got out of my sight. And I always thought that if I had to identify a colored person I could not. But by coincidence that one time I did recognize those two boys.

That's some amazing vision. If it had to be tested in a court room, it would be an amazing coicindence if your eyes were to become sandblasted 2 months later, I...whoops!

Mr. BRENNAN. The last of January I got both eyes sandblasted.

Mr. BELIN. This is January of 1964?

Mr. BRENNAN. Yes. And I had to be treated by a Doctor Black, I believe, in the Medical Arts Building, through the company. And I was completely blind for about 6 hours.

Mr. BELIN. How is your eyesight today?

Mr. BRENNAN. He says it is not good.

As an aside, while Brennan is in view of Abraham Zapruder, he is not looking in the direction of the TSBD at all.

Brennan gets a look at Dillard's 'prints.'

Mr. BELIN. Now, I hand you what has been marked as Exhibit 480, which appears to be a picture of the Texas School Book Depository Building, which was taken shortly after this time.

I believe on the fifth floor you can see on two of the open windows there some people looking out, and Exhibit 481 is a picture of the east windows on the south side of the fifth and sixth floors, and Exhibit 482 is an enlargement of 481.

First of all, on Exhibits 481 and 482, do you recognize any of these two persons in the fifth floor window as people you saw there?

Mr. BRENNAN. No; I do not recognize them.

As positive identification I cannot recognize them.

The one-time coincidence that can't be repeated ever again.

Now, I see where there is a possibility I did make a mistake. I believe these two colored boys was in this window, and I believe I showed on that other exhibit that they were in this window.

Hmm...so what you told us before was in error.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

I am going to hand you now

Mr. BRENNAN. The only thing I said is that they were one window over below the man that fired the gun.

That's fine Mr. Brennan, but that's not what we see in Dillard's 'print.' And it's not what Jackson said either.

Mr. BELIN. Well, I hand you Commission Exhibit 477, where you marked a "B" at the point there you first said you saw the Negro men. Is this the one you say now you might have been mistaken?

Mr. BRENNAN. Yes; I believe I was mistaken. I believe the two men that I identified was in this window.

Brennan is still placing 2 men together in 1 [one] window.

Mr. BELIN. You are pointing to the window to the east of where you have now marked "B"?

Mr. BRENNAN. That I am not positive of. I just remember that they were over one window from below him, which at that time I might have thought this was one window over.

Same problem. Then he goes on to state that although the window configuration looks the same, the 6th floor window was raised higher than what appears in the Dillard 'print.' Then he points out a box and says he doesn't recall having seen it - I assume that this is the box that was allegedly used as Oswald's prop for the rifle.

Mr. BELIN. Did you get as good a look at the Negroes as you got at the man with the rifle?

Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did you feel that your recollection of the Negroes at that time was as good as the one with the man with the rifle?

Mr. BRENNAN. Yes--at that time, it was. Now--the boys rode up with me on the plane of course I recognize them now. But as far as a few days later, I wouldn't positively say that I could identify them. I did identify them that day.

What plane ride would that be? With Eddie Barker? Anyone know what Brennan is referring to here?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house...edy/barker.html

Well, he didn't, up until he was a key witness at the Warren Commission Report, and we were, I was involved in the piece that CBS was doing. In those days, there was an embargo on stories, and the Warren Report was released on a Friday with an embargo to release it Sunday night, 6:00 Eastern Time. And so I was getting ready to go to New York and I got a call from their researcher up there, and said, "Who's Howard Brennan? I never heard of him." Well, they said, "Look, he's the key in this thing," because they were reading the report. And so, I won't bore you with all of the details on the story, but I ended up getting Howard Brennan, getting him on an airplane and taking him to New York and did the only interview with him he ever did and he convinced me. That was the, the one-person theory.

But that was after the release of the report? After Brennan's interview?

Mr. BELIN. Well, for instance, when I showed you Exhibit 482, you said that you could not identify

Mr. BRENNAN. Well, the picture is not clear enough, as far as distinct profiles.

Mr. DULLES. Mr. Belin, I don't think you have asked they be admitted as yet.

Mr. BELIN. No, sir. I have one more mark to make on them, sir.

Mr. BRENNAN. The pictures there are not clear enough, the profile is not distinct enough.

It certainly looked clear to me from the version published in the Warren Report.

The old diversion trick.

Mr. BRENNAN. Well, as I previously have said, I had saw the man in the window and I had saw him on television. He looked much younger on television than he did from my picture of him in the window--not much younger, but a few years younger--say 5 years younger.

And then I felt that my family could be in danger, and I, myself, might be in danger. And since they already had the man for murder, that he wasn't going to be set free to escape and get out of the country immediately, and I could very easily sooner than the FBI or the Secret Service wanted me, my testimony in, I could very easily get in touch with them, if they didn't get in touch with me, and to see that the man didn't get loose.

Representative FORD. When you got home, about 3 o'clock, on November 22d, that is when you did get home?

Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.

Representative FORD. Was your wife there?

Yes...do you know her?

Anyone feel free to throw in. This one is just getting started.

Edited by Lee Forman
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Couch:

Mr. COUCH - Nothing unusual between the shots. Uh - as I say, the first shot, I had no particular impression; but the second shot, I remember turning - several of us turning - and looking ahead of us. It was unusual for a motorcycle to backfire that close together, it seemed like. And after the third shot, Bob Jackson who was as I recall, on my right, yelled something like, "Look up in the window! There's the rifle!" And I remember glancing up to a window on the far right, which at the time impressed me as the sixth or seventh floor. And seeing about a foot of a rifle being - the barrel brought into the window. I saw no one in the window - just a quick 1-second glance at the barrel.
Mr. COUCH - It looked like it was the top. And when you first glance at the building, your thrown off a little as to the floors because there's a ridge - uh, it almost looks like a structured [sic] added onto the top of the building, about one story above. So you have to recount. Of course, at the time, I wasn't counting, but -

Mr. BELIN - You just remember to the best of your recollection, that it was either the sixth or the seventh floor?

Mr. COUCH - That's right.

Now this sounds as if Couch has mistakenly counted the floors, and that what he is saying is that the rifle was in the window on the 6th floor, but it's interesting anyway. I assume the structure he is referring to is the 7th floor, and not the parapet.

Mr. BELIN - Did you see any other people in any other window in the building?

Mr. COUCH - Yes; I recall seeing - uh - some people standing in some of the other windows - about, roughly, third or fourth floor in the middle of the south side. I recall one - it looked like a negro boy with a white T-shirt leaning out one of those windows looking up - up to the windows above him.

Now what's interesting about this is the FBI report which Ball raises with Norman.

Mr. BALL. I have one question.

On the 26th of November, an FBI agent named Kreutzer advises us in a report that he talked to you. Do you remember that?

Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. You remember?

Mr. NORMAN. Yes; I remember talking to him. I don't know his name.

Mr. BALL. He reports that you told him that you heard a shot and that you stuck your head from the window and looked upward toward the roof but could see nothing because small particles of dirt were falling from above you. Did you tell him that?

Mr. NORMAN. I don't recall telling him that.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever put your head out the window?

Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I don't remember ever putting my head out the window.

Mr. BALL. And he reports that you stated that two additional shots were fired after you pulled your head back in from the window. Do you remember telling him that?

Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I don't.

Who did Kreutzer talk to? Norman, or someone else? Williams maybe, who ended up with the unknown substance in his hair? Or is Kreutzer looking to fix some kind of gap? Is Ball smoothing it over?

In any event - even if Couch got the floor wrong, and it was the 6th, it's a bit of a leap for him to have miscalculated his floor estimate that he saw a black boy in a white t-shirt leaning out the third or fourth floor window - and 'on the south side.' If Couch got it right, then unless there was another young black employee in the TSBD that day [that I am not aware of anyway], we would have to assume that it would be one of the three black employees who all claim to have been on the fifth - despite the fact that Brennan, Jackson and Dillard all seem to recall only 2 men [and can't get the window right].

Ball, in questioning the three men, goes on to speak about the re-enactment that was done etc. It's still my impression that the easiest fix would have been to simply retake the photo, while the boys were crouching in their 'alleged' positions - one, two, [skip], three.

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Mr. BELIN - Did you see any other people in any other window in the building?

Mr. COUCH - Yes; I recall seeing - uh - some people standing in some of the other windows - about, roughly, third or fourth floor in the middle of the south side. I recall one - it looked like a negro boy with a white T-shirt leaning out one of those windows looking up - up to the windows above him.

Perhaps this is the boy in red as seen by Couch - 4th floor ['south side?'], in the Powers photo. The man in the fifth floor window in blue could be consistent with Brennan's corrected account, but the Powers photo still appears to be at odds with the Warren Report Dillard photos. In the color version, it still does not appear to be plainly evident that there are three individuals located in these 5th floor windows.

If this individual that Couch saw in the white T-shirt, then it still begs the question as to the credibility of the tales the three black TSBD employees, as they provided their accounts to Ball. With Ball's magic, they successfully explained away why no one saw Oswald at the time of the shooting, why they were not seen on the fifth floor when the DPD arrived, who the chicken lunch belonged to, the position of the elevators, the last time Oswald was seen, the location of the shooter and how many shots were fired, why no one could have been on the stairs, etc. etc. It could of course simply be another employee, and not the one seen by Couch, or someone unknown.

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Couch:
Mr. COUCH - Nothing unusual between the shots. Uh - as I say, the first shot, I had no particular impression; but the second shot, I remember turning - several of us turning - and looking ahead of us. It was unusual for a motorcycle to backfire that close together, it seemed like. And after the third shot, Bob Jackson who was as I recall, on my right, yelled something like, "Look up in the window! There's the rifle!" And I remember glancing up to a window on the far right, which at the time impressed me as the sixth or seventh floor. And seeing about a foot of a rifle being - the barrel brought into the window. I saw no one in the window - just a quick 1-second glance at the barrel.
Mr. COUCH - It looked like it was the top. And when you first glance at the building, your thrown off a little as to the floors because there's a ridge - uh, it almost looks like a structured [sic] added onto the top of the building, about one story above. So you have to recount. Of course, at the time, I wasn't counting, but -

Mr. BELIN - You just remember to the best of your recollection, that it was either the sixth or the seventh floor?

Mr. COUCH - That's right.

Now this sounds as if Couch has mistakenly counted the floors, and that what he is saying is that the rifle was in the window on the 6th floor, but it's interesting anyway. I assume the structure he is referring to is the 7th floor, and not the parapet.

Mr. BELIN - Did you see any other people in any other window in the building?

Mr. COUCH - Yes; I recall seeing - uh - some people standing in some of the other windows - about, roughly, third or fourth floor in the middle of the south side. I recall one - it looked like a negro boy with a white T-shirt leaning out one of those windows looking up - up to the windows above him.

Now what's interesting about this is the FBI report which Ball raises with Norman.

Mr. BALL. I have one question.

On the 26th of November, an FBI agent named Kreutzer advises us in a report that he talked to you. Do you remember that?

Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. You remember?

Mr. NORMAN. Yes; I remember talking to him. I don't know his name.

Mr. BALL. He reports that you told him that you heard a shot and that you stuck your head from the window and looked upward toward the roof but could see nothing because small particles of dirt were falling from above you. Did you tell him that?

Mr. NORMAN. I don't recall telling him that.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever put your head out the window?

Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I don't remember ever putting my head out the window.

Mr. BALL. And he reports that you stated that two additional shots were fired after you pulled your head back in from the window. Do you remember telling him that?

Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I don't.

Who did Kreutzer talk to? Norman, or someone else? Williams maybe, who ended up with the unknown substance in his hair? Or is Kreutzer looking to fix some kind of gap? Is Ball smoothing it over?

In any event - even if Couch got the floor wrong, and it was the 6th, it's a bit of a leap for him to have miscalculated his floor estimate that he saw a black boy in a white t-shirt leaning out the third or fourth floor window - and 'on the south side.' If Couch got it right, then unless there was another young black employee in the TSBD that day [that I am not aware of anyway], we would have to assume that it would be one of the three black employees who all claim to have been on the fifth - despite the fact that Brennan, Jackson and Dillard all seem to recall only 2 men [and can't get the window right].

Ball, in questioning the three men, goes on to speak about the re-enactment that was done etc. It's still my impression that the easiest fix would have been to simply retake the photo, while the boys were crouching in their 'alleged' positions - one, two, [skip], three.

Hi Lee.

Does this look the right way around.

( Mirror image of your pic )

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Thanks Robin! That looks better. The only difference, as noted once before, is that Williams doesn't appear to be wearing a sweater in the Dillard 'print.'

I only nominally touched on this before, and don't really want to go into it much. The most curious aspect for me was the comment made by Gerry Hemming in reference to the tapped phone conversation of the man in Mexico City? Speaking in German, about how it was believed that this arrangement of boxes was a sniper's nest - when in reality it was a blind created by the black employees of the TSBD so that they could be afforded privacy when looking at pornography. I would very much like to find the transcript and read it for myself for laughs.

From what it appears many of the eye-witnesses reported, no one was seen with the gun in this location - except for Brennan, whose description defies logic, since the sill of the bottom of the frame was only some 6 - 9" off the ground. What is most likely the case is that this position was used as a decoy location to seal Oswald's fate. The gun was clearly visible, took shots, and then was slowly withdrawn. Perhaps these are the shots that struck Elm st and the lawn.

Mr. BRENNAN. Well, as it appeared to me he was standing up and resting against the left window sill, with gun shouldered to his right shoulder, holding the gun with his left hand and taking positive aim and fired his last shot. As I calculate a couple of seconds. He drew the gun back from the window as though he was drawing it back to his side and maybe paused for another second as though to assure hisself that he hit his mark, and then he disappeared.

And, at the same moment, I was diving off of that firewall and to the right for bullet protection of this stone wall that is a little higher on the Houston side.

If he had been standing, he would have had to fire through the glass of the upper section of the window. Plus, if Brennan is diving at the same moment, it's odd that he would have been able to see anything.

Mr. BELIN. Well, let me ask you. What kind of a gun did you see in that window?

Mr. BRENNAN. I am not an expert on guns. It was, as I could observe, some type of a high-powered rifle.

Mr. BELIN. Could you tell whether or not it had any kind of a scope on it?

Mr. BRENNAN. I did not observe a scope.

Then I find the first statement to be questionable to begin with.

Mr. BELIN. Could you tell whether or not it had one? Do you know whether it did or not, or could you observe that it definitely did or definitely did not, or don't you know?

Mr. BRENNAN. I do not know if it had a scope or not.

Mr. BELIN. I believe you said you thought the man was standing. What do you believe was the position of the people on the fifth floor that you saw--standing or sitting?

Mr. BRENNAN. I thought they were standing with their elbows on the window sill leaning out.

Note - large difference in the distance between floor and sill on 5 and 6. As per the reinactment photo, sitting with your elbows resting on the sill on 5 is quite possible. Crouching the way that the men are doing in the reinactment photo, however, is quite peculiar and uncomfortable looking.

Mr. BELIN. At the time you saw this man on the sixth floor, how much of the man could you see?

Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I could see at one time he came to the window and he sat sideways on the window sill. That was previous to President Kennedy getting there. And I could see practically his whole body, from his hips up. But at the time that he was firing the gun, a possibility from his belt up.

Not possible, if the window was in the position we see it in; even if it was raised to it's full extent it's doubtful.

Now, the question was raised about what would have happened if this had come to trial in the Day thread - I think any decent attorney would have mopped up the floor with Mr. Brennan.

Prouty's Guns of Dallas:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/GoD.html

NUMBERs 28, 29. Two photographs showing that no one could have fired any shots from the sixth-floor window and that the cartons in the window were arranged to look like a sniper's nest three days after the assassination. Photo number 28 is the official photo of the sniper's nest taken by Dallas police photographer Robert Studebaker. It was probably taken on November 25, three days later. Photo number 29* was taken by Dallas Morning News photographer Jack Beers at 3:30 P.M. on the day of the assassination. The most important thing the photos show is that the real position of the boxes at the time of the shots did not allow enough space for anyone to be in a firing position.

http://www.jfk-online.com/alyea.html

The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows, extending in an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the first and second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a minimum of 5 ft. I looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings laying on the floor in front of the second window in the two window casement. They were scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel basket. They were located about half way between the inside of the barricade. I set my lens focus at the estimated distance from the camera to the floor and held the camera over the top of the barricade and filmed them before anybody went into the enclosure. I could not position my eye to the camera's view finder to get the shot. After filming the casings with my wide angle lens, from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz, who was standing at my side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a close-up shot of the casings. He told me that it would be better if I got my shots from outside the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and entered the enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the barricade and the windows.

Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in his hand over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the evidence. I filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell casings in Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do not recall if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the floor, because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime scene. I have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the Captain of Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was the first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that he was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and photo records.

The position of the barricade, while difficult to follow for one who was not there, is important because of the difference in photographs seen today.

There are four different box positions.

1) There was one box in the barricade stack that was considerably higher than the others. This box is the one that can be seen in the photos taken from outside the window by Tom Dillard, because it was high enough to catch the sunlight and still be seen from the ground below. It is not to be confused with the second box set at an angle in the window sill, that was used as a brace for the assassin's rifle.

2) A portion of this box can also be seen in these same photos taken by Tom Dillard. It shows up in the lower right hand corner of the picture.

3) Two boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to give arm support to the assassin. The top box was one of the two boxes from which the crime lab lifted palm prints.

4) The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the sniper location. Officers also lifted palm prints from this box. It is suspected that the sniper sat on this box while he waited for the motorcade to pass.

The positioning of boxes 2, 3, and 4 were recorded by the police crime lab. They are the only boxes involved in the crime scene.

The actual positioning of the barricade was never photographed by the police. It s actual positioning is only on my movie footage, which was taken before the police started dismantling the arrangement.

We all looked over the barricade to see if the half open window with three boxes piled to form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was actually on the window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for this that I cover in my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location consists of two windows set together to form one single window. (The police photo showing the shell casings laying next to the brick wall was staged later by crime lab people who did not see the original positioning because they were not called upon the scene until after the rifle was found nearly an hour later.) . . .

Only recently I saw a picture of Lt. Day with a news still cameraman on the 6th floor. Day was shown pointing to the location where the rifle was found. This was nearly 3:30 or after. It was my understanding that Day and Studebaker had taken the prints, rifle and homemade sack back to police headquarters. I personally would like to know what they were doing back at the scene unless it was to reconstruct shots they had failed to take during the primary investigation. But this evidence had been destroyed and they were forced to create their own version. The photo I have seen of the barricade wasn't even close. I have also seen recently a police photo of the assassin's lair taken from a high angle which indicates that it was shot before the barricade box arrangement was destroyed, but it did not show the barricade itself. This has no bearing on the case other than the public has never seen the original placement. . . .

Add the attachments please....

Edited by Lee Forman
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Hello Mark.

Coincidentally, the Dillard negative was destroyed. On the close-up shot [Dillard took 2 photos within moments of one another with 2 different cameras], I have seen the nice looking version which was used in the Warren Report, but there is another one that demonstrates that this is a crop. Jarman can be seen in another version I have seen of the close-up, but the quality is poor.

I have related this before - a simple anecdote. When I was in College, as part of a project, I went to the Newark courthouse - looking for a good story. I found a case in progress in which 4 black youths were being tried for possession of weapons and drugs, found in the car they were in, while they were arrested as part of an undercover operation involving white plainclothes police officers under cover. I spoke to an attorney who was representing one of the boys. He told me that the real story was that his client and another youth were walking down a street and were given a ride by the driver, who knew them. There was a bag under the seat which contained all the weapons - an Ingram, an Uzzi and a Glock I think. There were a few vials of crack also in the bag. After the arrest, it was written up that each youth had something on their lap - one had the Uzzi, one had the Ingram, the other the Glock [i think] and the last had the drugs. Convenient distribution. I asked myself how it could happen that these black youths, driving in Newark, would find themselves confronted by a white man in a suit pointing a gun at them and not simply open fire, if each of them had enough firepower readily at hand to deal with this situation. Anyway, they lost the case. I met the cop once afterwards that helped to 'see justice served.' He got pretty jumpy when I brought up the case. I was inclined to believe the youths.

I found this amusing - I had never seen it before - not on topic.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senat...39/Sprague.html

I have never seen those Murray photos before. Curious that Sprague reports that Murray refused to allow them to make enlargements from the negative.

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Guest Mark Valenti
I have never seen those Murray photos before. Curious that Sprague reports that Murray refused to allow them to make enlargements from the negative.

Hi Lee,

Interesting story - and probably happens routinely.

FYI, I cropped the photo to highlight their positions, the original is much larger.

MV

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Murray 1-20 Crop

Murray 1-20 Full Scan from POTP.

Large Image

Thanks Robin!

Interesting. I took a closer look at it - it's not enough to get a really good look? I see the man standing on the street - just can't really drill down on him. I don't see the Rambler? I did see something curious, but I'd also want to be able to use the negative to take a closer look - is there someone at the top of the DalTex fire escape? Is there someone in the 'Williams window' on the 5th floor, or is it shut? I can't tell.

I agree with Sprague - if you had the negative, you'd have a lot better view of the man on the street anyway. I don't know about getting a license plate number, however. Sounds like a bit of a reach. Wonder what happened to the negative?

Thanks for sharing that - I never had the opportunity to take a close look at that before now!

- lee

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Hello Mark.

Coincidentally, the Dillard negative was destroyed. On the close-up shot [Dillard took 2 photos within moments of one another with 2 different cameras], I have seen the nice looking version which was used in the Warren Report, but there is another one that demonstrates that this is a crop. Jarman can be seen in another version I have seen of the close-up, but the quality is poor.

I have related this before - a simple anecdote. When I was in College, as part of a project, I went to the Newark courthouse - looking for a good story. I found a case in progress in which 4 black youths were being tried for possession of weapons and drugs, found in the car they were in, while they were arrested as part of an undercover operation involving white plainclothes police officers under cover. I spoke to an attorney who was representing one of the boys. He told me that the real story was that his client and another youth were walking down a street and were given a ride by the driver, who knew them. There was a bag under the seat which contained all the weapons - an Ingram, an Uzzi and a Glock I think. There were a few vials of crack also in the bag. After the arrest, it was written up that each youth had something on their lap - one had the Uzzi, one had the Ingram, the other the Glock [i think] and the last had the drugs. Convenient distribution. I asked myself how it could happen that these black youths, driving in Newark, would find themselves confronted by a white man in a suit pointing a gun at them and not simply open fire, if each of them had enough firepower readily at hand to deal with this situation. Anyway, they lost the case. I met the cop once afterwards that helped to 'see justice served.' He got pretty jumpy when I brought up the case. I was inclined to believe the youths.

I found this amusing - I had never seen it before - not on topic.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senat...39/Sprague.html

I have never seen those Murray photos before. Curious that Sprague reports that Murray refused to allow them to make enlargements from the negative.

Murray 1-20 Crop

Murray 1-20 Full Scan from POTP.

Large Image

Edited by Robin Unger
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