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Noam Chomsky & MIT/Massachusetts Institute of Technology


Myra Bronstein
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I've had suspicions, I've looked through a lot of old threads on CIA propaganda assetts of the "left." A couple of things that keep popping up: Noam Chomsky and MIT. Any opinions?

-Noam seems to warn against all sorts of evils while denying many specific examples of those evils.

"Noam Chomsky - Controlled Asset Of The New World Order

Commentary By Daniel L. Abrahamson

Since 9-11, he has steadfastly refused to discuss the evidence of government complicity and prior knowledge. Furthermore, he claims that the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), Bilderberg Committee, and Trilateral Commission are "nothing organizations." When critiquing poverty, he never mentions the Federal Reserve and their role in manipulating the cycle of debt. Similarly, he claims the CIA was never a rogue organization and is an innocent scapegoat; that JFK was killed by the lone assassin Lee Harvey Oswald; that the obvious vote fraud in 2004 did not occur..."

...

The Left gatekeepers must manage the delicate tight rope act of appearing radical while in actuality calling for worldwide enslavement and murder. In all likelihood they get a little help from the propaganda scientists at the venerable Tavistock institute in London and adjuncts of the CIA's Mockingbird program; clearly the Left's denial of 9-11 truths has been too coordinated too have simply been a freak occurrence."

http://www.rense.com/general67/noam.htm

-MIT just comes up over and over in reading about history, or suspicions, of CIA activities on campus.

"The CIA Meets MIT

Several decades ago, the CIA decided to establish an office in Cambridge near the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They rented out a space in Technology Square, in the same building as the Laboratory for Computer Science, and set themselves up as the Charles I. Andersen Music Company. Now, MIT students are no idiots, and it took them all of five minutes to figure out just what kind of music company would set up offices in Tech Square. MIT students, especially hackers, are well-known for their sense of humor, and this was just too choice a target to pass up.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=11...p;lastnode_id=0

"Web editor's note: Max F. Millikan was an economics professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology during the 1950s. From 1951-52 he took a leave of absence to serve as assistant CIA director. Upon returning he became director of MIT's Center for International Studies, which was funded by the CIA and Ford Foundation."

http://www.cia-on-campus.org/mit.edu/max.html

"MIT alumni formerly in the American public service include Secretary of Defense Les Aspin (Ph.D XIV '66), former Director of the CIA John M. Deutch (Ph.D V '66),"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts...e_of_Technology

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I've had suspicions, I've looked through a lot of old threads on CIA propaganda assetts of the "left." A couple of things that keep popping up: Noam Chomsky and MIT. Any opinions?

-Noam seems to warn against all sorts of evils while denying many specific examples of those evils.

"Noam Chomsky - Controlled Asset Of The New World Order

Commentary By Daniel L. Abrahamson

Since 9-11, he has steadfastly refused to discuss the evidence of government complicity and prior knowledge. Furthermore, he claims that the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), Bilderberg Committee, and Trilateral Commission are "nothing organizations." When critiquing poverty, he never mentions the Federal Reserve and their role in manipulating the cycle of debt. Similarly, he claims the CIA was never a rogue organization and is an innocent scapegoat; that JFK was killed by the lone assassin Lee Harvey Oswald; that the obvious vote fraud in 2004 did not occur..."

...

The Left gatekeepers must manage the delicate tight rope act of appearing radical while in actuality calling for worldwide enslavement and murder. In all likelihood they get a little help from the propaganda scientists at the venerable Tavistock institute in London and adjuncts of the CIA's Mockingbird program; clearly the Left's denial of 9-11 truths has been too coordinated too have simply been a freak occurrence."

http://www.rense.com/general67/noam.htm

-MIT just comes up over and over in reading about history, or suspicions, of CIA activities on campus.

"The CIA Meets MIT

Several decades ago, the CIA decided to establish an office in Cambridge near the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They rented out a space in Technology Square, in the same building as the Laboratory for Computer Science, and set themselves up as the Charles I. Andersen Music Company. Now, MIT students are no idiots, and it took them all of five minutes to figure out just what kind of music company would set up offices in Tech Square. MIT students, especially hackers, are well-known for their sense of humor, and this was just too choice a target to pass up.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=11...p;lastnode_id=0

"Web editor's note: Max F. Millikan was an economics professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology during the 1950s. From 1951-52 he took a leave of absence to serve as assistant CIA director. Upon returning he became director of MIT's Center for International Studies, which was funded by the CIA and Ford Foundation."

http://www.cia-on-campus.org/mit.edu/max.html

"MIT alumni formerly in the American public service include Secretary of Defense Les Aspin (Ph.D XIV '66), former Director of the CIA John M. Deutch (Ph.D V '66),"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts...e_of_Technology

************************************************************

"The CIA Meets MIT

Several decades ago, the CIA decided to establish an office in Cambridge near the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They rented out a space in Technology Square, in the same building as the Laboratory for Computer Science, and set themselves up as the Charles I. Andersen Music Company. Now, MIT students are no idiots, and it took them all of five minutes to figure out just what kind of music company would set up offices in Tech Square. MIT students, especially hackers, are well-known for their sense of humor, and this was just too choice a target to pass up.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=11...p;lastnode_id=0

"Web editor's note: Max F. Millikan was an economics professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology during the 1950s. From 1951-52 he took a leave of absence to serve as assistant CIA director. Upon returning he became director of MIT's Center for International Studies, which was funded by the CIA and Ford Foundation."

http://www.cia-on-campus.org/mit.edu/max.html

"MIT alumni formerly in the American public service include Secretary of Defense Les Aspin (Ph.D XIV '66), former Director of the CIA John M. Deutch (Ph.D V '66),"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts...e_of_Technology

Well, look at it from this P.O.V., my friend. Harvard University, with the labs that spawned the likes of Ken Kesey, Tim Leary, and their "Kool-Aide Acid Test" experiments. Oh, and let's not forget Ted "The Unibomber" Kozinsky, another product of what might be expected to "accidently" merge into the mainstream of American life from those "ivy halls," as well?

They're not too far away from one another. Harvard and MIT, I mean. Like a couple of miles away. They're both situated right on the Charles River, with MIT on one side wedged parallel between Memorial Drive and Vassar Street, and Harvard on the other side, a little further up the river where it bends alongside Soldier's Field Road, rounding the campus on three sides. Just a thought.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searc...p;zipcode=#west

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Sorry, duplicate post. Deleted by TM

Edited by Terry Mauro
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I've had suspicions, I've looked through a lot of old threads on CIA propaganda assetts of the "left." A couple of things that keep popping up: Noam Chomsky and MIT. Any opinions?

-Noam seems to warn against all sorts of evils while denying many specific examples of those evils.

"Noam Chomsky - Controlled Asset Of The New World Order

Commentary By Daniel L. Abrahamson

Since 9-11, he has steadfastly refused to discuss the evidence of government complicity and prior knowledge. Furthermore, he claims that the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), Bilderberg Committee, and Trilateral Commission are "nothing organizations." When critiquing poverty, he never mentions the Federal Reserve and their role in manipulating the cycle of debt. Similarly, he claims the CIA was never a rogue organization and is an innocent scapegoat; that JFK was killed by the lone assassin Lee Harvey Oswald; that the obvious vote fraud in 2004 did not occur..."

...

The Left gatekeepers must manage the delicate tight rope act of appearing radical while in actuality calling for worldwide enslavement and murder. In all likelihood they get a little help from the propaganda scientists at the venerable Tavistock institute in London and adjuncts of the CIA's Mockingbird program; clearly the Left's denial of 9-11 truths has been too coordinated too have simply been a freak occurrence."

http://www.rense.com/general67/noam.htm

-MIT just comes up over and over in reading about history, or suspicions, of CIA activities on campus.

"The CIA Meets MIT

Several decades ago, the CIA decided to establish an office in Cambridge near the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They rented out a space in Technology Square, in the same building as the Laboratory for Computer Science, and set themselves up as the Charles I. Andersen Music Company. Now, MIT students are no idiots, and it took them all of five minutes to figure out just what kind of music company would set up offices in Tech Square. MIT students, especially hackers, are well-known for their sense of humor, and this was just too choice a target to pass up.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=11...p;lastnode_id=0

"Web editor's note: Max F. Millikan was an economics professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology during the 1950s. From 1951-52 he took a leave of absence to serve as assistant CIA director. Upon returning he became director of MIT's Center for International Studies, which was funded by the CIA and Ford Foundation."

http://www.cia-on-campus.org/mit.edu/max.html

"MIT alumni formerly in the American public service include Secretary of Defense Les Aspin (Ph.D XIV '66), former Director of the CIA John M. Deutch (Ph.D V '66),"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts...e_of_Technology

************************************************************

"The CIA Meets MIT

Several decades ago, the CIA decided to establish an office in Cambridge near the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They rented out a space in Technology Square, in the same building as the Laboratory for Computer Science, and set themselves up as the Charles I. Andersen Music Company. Now, MIT students are no idiots, and it took them all of five minutes to figure out just what kind of music company would set up offices in Tech Square. MIT students, especially hackers, are well-known for their sense of humor, and this was just too choice a target to pass up.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=11...p;lastnode_id=0

"Web editor's note: Max F. Millikan was an economics professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology during the 1950s. From 1951-52 he took a leave of absence to serve as assistant CIA director. Upon returning he became director of MIT's Center for International Studies, which was funded by the CIA and Ford Foundation."

http://www.cia-on-campus.org/mit.edu/max.html

"MIT alumni formerly in the American public service include Secretary of Defense Les Aspin (Ph.D XIV '66), former Director of the CIA John M. Deutch (Ph.D V '66),"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts...e_of_Technology

Well, look at it from this P.O.V., my friend. Harvard University, with the labs that spawned the likes of Ken Kesey, Tim Leary, and their "Kool-Aide Acid Test" experiments. Oh, and let's not forget Ted "The Unibomber" Kozinsky, another product of what might be expected to "accidently" merge into the mainstream of American life from those "ivy halls," as well?

They're not too far away from one another. Harvard and MIT, I mean. Like a couple of miles away. They're both situated right on the Charles River, with MIT on one side wedged parallel between Memorial Drive and Vassar Street, and Harvard on the other side, a little further up the river where it bends alongside Soldier's Field Road, rounding the campus on three sides. Just a thought.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searc...p;zipcode=#west

Wow, you're like "X" in the movie "JFK." :ph34r:

I guess I don't have a good sense of the extent of the CIA's infiltration of universities. I mean, I know it's huge, but I don't know the specifics. MIT just stands out to me. And Noam leaps out.

Harvard eh? President Kennedy's school???

Oh yeah, LSD was originally a CIA experiment in mind control I think. Timothy Leary? A CIA hack? Hm.

Edited by Myra Bronstein
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Guest Stephen Turner

The counter culture scene of the 1960s turned ugly once the real heavy stuff showed up,wanna put one up the man, man, drop a tab, "You'd better free your mind instead." (Lennon) Never mind revolution, marching, and fighting for social change, by the late sixties all that mattered was expanding your individual consciousness, why do you think the weathermen were so pissed, and some people believe all this happened by chance!!!! Take one hippie, mix with acid and heroin, hey presto Ladies and Gents Charles Manson. "The dream is over"(Lennon)

Ps, Find out where Owlsley got the trip, making high grade Acid in his bedroom for distribution in haight asbury, flood the streets, kill the dream. opps their goes Jimi, Jim, Janis, Brian. "Go see Alice, when shes ten feet tall" ( Jefferson Airplane)

Edited by Stephen Turner
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Guest Stephen Turner
The counter culture scene of the 1960s turned ugly once the real heavy stuff showed up,wanna put one up the man, man, drop a tab, "You'd better free your mind instead." (Lennon) Never mind revolution, marching, and fighting for social change, by the late sixties all that mattered was expanding your individual consciousness, why do you think the weathermen were so pissed, and some people believe all this happened by chance!!!! Take one hippie, mix with acid and heroin, hey presto Ladies and Gents Charles Manson. "The dream is over"(Lennon)

Ps, Find out where Owlsley got the trip, making high grade Acid in his bedroom for distribution in haight asbury, flood the streets, kill the dream. opps their goes Jimi, Jim, Janis, Brian. "Go see Alice, when shes ten feet tall" ( Jefferson Airplane)

And how you gonna turn off this generations possible rebels? easy, diagnosis, ADHD, cure? Ritalin,over two million US schoolkids are now talking this poison (side effects, depression, suicide, aggressive behaviour inability to consentrate) one girl was prescribed after being asked "Do you find yourself daydreaming" any teenager who answered no to that question needs help. Lets call it unmanufacturing dissent ;)

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Noam Chomsky was very good at his anti-Viet Nam stuff but on these issues I am inclined to believe he is an asset. Vince Salandria and he engaged in a correspondance and Vince could not ever get Chomsky to accept the conspiracy view on JFK assassination. Amazing, he is far too intelligent to actually believe the WC lie, so that makes him suspect to me.

Yes, MIT and Harvard are within walking distance from each other.

Dawn

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The counter culture scene of the 1960s turned ugly once the real heavy stuff showed up,wanna put one up the man, man, drop a tab, "You'd better free your mind instead." (Lennon) Never mind revolution, marching, and fighting for social change, by the late sixties all that mattered was expanding your individual consciousness, why do you think the weathermen were so pissed, and some people believe all this happened by chance!!!! Take one hippie, mix with acid and heroin, hey presto Ladies and Gents Charles Manson. "The dream is over"(Lennon)

Ps, Find out where Owlsley got the trip, making high grade Acid in his bedroom for distribution in haight asbury, flood the streets, kill the dream. opps their goes Jimi, Jim, Janis, Brian. "Go see Alice, when shes ten feet tall" ( Jefferson Airplane)

And how you gonna turn off this generations possible rebels? easy, diagnosis, ADHD, cure? Ritalin,over two million US schoolkids are now talking this poison (side effects, depression, suicide, aggressive behaviour inability to consentrate) one girl was prescribed after being asked "Do you find yourself daydreaming" any teenager who answered no to that question needs help. Lets call it unmanufacturing dissent ;)

*******************************************************

Yeah, and as they used to say back then, "Right on!" Myra and Stephen.

But, Myra hit it "Right on!" earlier up in her post with reference to The Tavistock Institute, out of the U.K.

Remember the movie "A Clockwork Orange?" The sequence where Malcolm MacDowell was sent to be "de-programmed" for his evil, murderous ways? Come to find out it was filmed in those hallowed halls, as well.

So, it's my opinion that institutes of elitist, higher-learning, etc., and blah, blah, blah, seem to invest alot of time and energy into "shaping," "molding," "creating," the exact replicates of what they believe to be the "status quo" necessary to run "their" show, which they feel truly belongs to "them" because of all the "money" they've invested into "shaping," "molding," "creating," the laws of the "land," "world," aka "global," economy to suit "their" needs. Not to mention that most of the "money" they believe they've "invested" is actually derived from the trillions of tax dollars they've manage to bilk [via tax-diverted loopholes] from the "plebes" or subjects who make up the majority in this world, and who'll never be able to afford to set foot in one of their institutes of higher learning. Thus, ensuring that the wealth of the world continue to be controlled and in the hands of that "chosen" five or ten percentile. Well, how do they manage to get away with that? Very easily, by controlling as much information being distributed as they possibly can, be it via schoolbooks, education, the media aparatus, and most insidiously [as my friend Stephen has pointed out] by drugs. All employing the psycho-technology researched in their hallowed [there's that word, again] ivy halls, such as Harvard, MIT, and Tavistock which I'm certain is just as aligned with the Oxford-Cambridge community as its American counterparts are aligned with the NIH, and vice-versa.

Oh, and one more thing. If you believe that those scholarships awarded to some of the "smarter" plebes don't come with any strings attached? Be aware that those "gifted" children are the first to be snatched up by those hallowed, ivy halls, long before they ever get a chance to graduate from high-school. They're selected via the yearly monitoring of their SAT scores, K1-12.

Hi Ho! Hi Ho! It's off to work this "plebe" will go...

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Guest Stephen Turner

The counter culture scene of the 1960s turned ugly once the real heavy stuff showed up,wanna put one up the man, man, drop a tab, "You'd better free your mind instead." (Lennon) Never mind revolution, marching, and fighting for social change, by the late sixties all that mattered was expanding your individual consciousness, why do you think the weathermen were so pissed, and some people believe all this happened by chance!!!! Take one hippie, mix with acid and heroin, hey presto Ladies and Gents Charles Manson. "The dream is over"(Lennon)

Ps, Find out where Owlsley got the trip, making high grade Acid in his bedroom for distribution in haight asbury, flood the streets, kill the dream. opps their goes Jimi, Jim, Janis, Brian. "Go see Alice, when shes ten feet tall" ( Jefferson Airplane)

And how you gonna turn off this generations possible rebels? easy, diagnosis, ADHD, cure? Ritalin,over two million US schoolkids are now talking this poison (side effects, depression, suicide, aggressive behaviour inability to consentrate) one girl was prescribed after being asked "Do you find yourself daydreaming" any teenager who answered no to that question needs help. Lets call it unmanufacturing dissent ;)

*******************************************************

Yeah, and as they used to say back then, "Right on!" Myra and Stephen.

But, Myra hit it "Right on!" earlier up in her post with reference to The Tavistock Institute, out of the U.K.

Remember the movie "A Clockwork Orange?" The sequence where Malcolm MacDowell was sent to be "de-programmed" for his evil, murderous ways? Come to find out it was filmed in those hallowed halls, as well.

So, it's my opinion that institutes of elitist, higher-learning, etc., and blah, blah, blah, seem to invest alot of time and energy into "shaping," "molding," "creating," the exact replicates of what they believe to be the "status quo" necessary to run "their" show, which they feel truly belongs to "them" because of all the "money" they've invested into "shaping," "molding," "creating," the laws of the "land," "world," aka "global," economy to suit "their" needs. Not to mention that most of the "money" they believe they've "invested" is actually derived from the trillions of tax dollars they've manage to bilk [via tax-diverted loopholes] from the "plebes" or subjects who make up the majority in this world, and who'll never be able to afford to set foot in one of their institutes of higher learning. Thus, ensuring that the wealth of the world continue to be controlled and in the hands of that "chosen" five or ten percentile. Well, how do they manage to get away with that? Very easily, by controlling as much information being distributed as they possibly can, be it via schoolbooks, education, the media aparatus, and most insidiously [as my friend Stephen has pointed out] by drugs. All employing the psycho-technology researched in their hallowed [there's that word, again] ivy halls, such as Harvard, MIT, and Tavistock which I'm certain is just as aligned with the Oxford-Cambridge community as its American counterparts are aligned with the NIH, and vice-versa.

Oh, and one more thing. If you believe that those scholarships awarded to some of the "smarter" plebes don't come with any strings attached? Be aware that those "gifted" children are the first to be snatched up by those hallowed, ivy halls, long before they ever get a chance to graduate from high-school. They're selected via the yearly monitoring of their SAT scores, K1-12.

Hi Ho! Hi Ho! It's off to work this "plebe" will go...

Hey, Ter how are you, tell you how its going down, come the revolution lets make all the little piggies take their own poison, see how they like the trip.....Just call me Dr Feelgood ;)

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Noam Chomsky was very good at his anti-Viet Nam stuff but on these issues I am inclined to believe he is an asset. Vince Salandria and he engaged in a correspondance and Vince could not ever get Chomsky to accept the conspiracy view on JFK assassination. Amazing, he is far too intelligent to actually believe the WC lie, so that makes him suspect to me.

Yes, MIT and Harvard are within walking distance from each other.

Dawn

*******************************************************

"Yes, MIT and Harvard are within walking distance from each other."

I'm not readily equating Harvard Law School with what goes on in their university's clinical research departments, Hon. I'm merely relating what is common knowledge with regard to the "psy-ops" programs that go on under the umbrella of "research and development." Heaven knows how well JFK, and RFK learned their lessons at Harvard Law, as well as yourself, Dawnie.

Talk to you tonight, after work.

Ter

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The counter culture scene of the 1960s turned ugly once the real heavy stuff showed up,wanna put one up the man, man, drop a tab, "You'd better free your mind instead." (Lennon) Never mind revolution, marching, and fighting for social change, by the late sixties all that mattered was expanding your individual consciousness, why do you think the weathermen were so pissed, and some people believe all this happened by chance!!!! Take one hippie, mix with acid and heroin, hey presto Ladies and Gents Charles Manson. "The dream is over"(Lennon)

Ps, Find out where Owlsley got the trip, making high grade Acid in his bedroom for distribution in haight asbury, flood the streets, kill the dream. opps their goes Jimi, Jim, Janis, Brian. "Go see Alice, when shes ten feet tall" ( Jefferson Airplane)

And how you gonna turn off this generations possible rebels? easy, diagnosis, ADHD, cure? Ritalin,over two million US schoolkids are now talking this poison (side effects, depression, suicide, aggressive behaviour inability to consentrate) one girl was prescribed after being asked "Do you find yourself daydreaming" any teenager who answered no to that question needs help. Lets call it unmanufacturing dissent ;)

*******************************************************

Yeah, and as they used to say back then, "Right on!" Myra and Stephen.

But, Myra hit it "Right on!" earlier up in her post with reference to The Tavistock Institute, out of the U.K.

Remember the movie "A Clockwork Orange?" The sequence where Malcolm MacDowell was sent to be "de-programmed" for his evil, murderous ways? Come to find out it was filmed in those hallowed halls, as well.

So, it's my opinion that institutes of elitist, higher-learning, etc., and blah, blah, blah, seem to invest alot of time and energy into "shaping," "molding," "creating," the exact replicates of what they believe to be the "status quo" necessary to run "their" show, which they feel truly belongs to "them" because of all the "money" they've invested into "shaping," "molding," "creating," the laws of the "land," "world," aka "global," economy to suit "their" needs. Not to mention that most of the "money" they believe they've "invested" is actually derived from the trillions of tax dollars they've manage to bilk [via tax-diverted loopholes] from the "plebes" or subjects who make up the majority in this world, and who'll never be able to afford to set foot in one of their institutes of higher learning. Thus, ensuring that the wealth of the world continue to be controlled and in the hands of that "chosen" five or ten percentile. Well, how do they manage to get away with that? Very easily, by controlling as much information being distributed as they possibly can, be it via schoolbooks, education, the media aparatus, and most insidiously [as my friend Stephen has pointed out] by drugs. All employing the psycho-technology researched in their hallowed [there's that word, again] ivy halls, such as Harvard, MIT, and Tavistock which I'm certain is just as aligned with the Oxford-Cambridge community as its American counterparts are aligned with the NIH, and vice-versa.

Oh, and one more thing. If you believe that those scholarships awarded to some of the "smarter" plebes don't come with any strings attached? Be aware that those "gifted" children are the first to be snatched up by those hallowed, ivy halls, long before they ever get a chance to graduate from high-school. They're selected via the yearly monitoring of their SAT scores, K1-12.

Hi Ho! Hi Ho! It's off to work this "plebe" will go...

Hey, Ter how are you, tell you how its going down, come the revolution lets make all the little piggies take their own poison, see how they like the trip.....Just call me Dr Feelgood ;)

*************************************************************8

When I was working in San Francisco in 1966, I met this guy from England [Danny], who was traveling through CA on a visa via Mexico. We hung out together, and one night we went back to his "flat," where he showed me his graduate papers from Cambridge University in the U.K., or G.B. as it was referred to back then. He said he was working for a guy, with a name that sounded like, "Oslete" [those British accents always throw me]. He then proceeded to show me these ampules of pale blue liquid, about eight or ten of them, that he kept in this case lined with black velvet that had these little elastic bands to hold them in place. His kept his Cambridge diploma, or document, and papers in the pocket behind this false bottom or panel, that held the ampules securely cushioned. He left San Francisco on, or around the 18th of September. Through reading The Chronicle, I came to find out that September 18th, 1966 was the day a law was being enacted to outlaw the sale and distribution of "acid" [lysergic acid diethylamide] in the Bay Area. Later on, when I went back to NY, I saw the correct spelling of Owsley's name and realized the implications of what I had witnessed that summer evening in San Francisco.

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  • 1 year later...

I'm continuing the resurgent Noam Chomsky discussion here so as not to derail the excellent thread "New Proof of JFK Film Fakery."

...

Why doesn't Chomsky accept a conspiracy in the death of JFK? For one thing, we don't actually know if he does or not.

...

It's also possible Chomsky hasn't really studied the case at any length. In the end, we don't know, but to call him an agent of disinformation is just plain ridiculous.

At least do some basic fact checking before posting.

Chomsky has literally written a book on the subject.

"Rethinking Camelot: Jfk, the Vietnam War, and U.S. Political Culture"

http://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Camelot-V...4267&sr=8-1

He has written at length about the JFK assassination and has made numerous strong statements denying the likelihood of a conspiracy. For example:

"...It's true that I know very little about the assassination. The only thing I've written about it is that the claim that it was a high-level conspiracy with policy significance is implausible to a quite extraordinary degree.

History isn't physics, and even in physics nothing is really "proven," but the evidence against this claim is overwhelming, from every testable point of view, remarkably so for a historical event. Given that conclusion, which I think is very well founded (that I have written about, a lot), I have no further interest in the assassination, and while I've read a few of the books, out of curiosity, I haven't given the matter any attention and have no opinion about how or why JFK was killed.

People shouldn't be killed, whether they are presidents or kids in the urban slums. I know of no reason to suppose that one should have more interest in the JFK assassination than lots of killings not far from the White House.

Given the plain facts about (1), I think it is clear why (2) is gibberish. Parenti or anyone else who reads what I have written can readily determine, if rational, that (2) is gibberish, because of the plain facts about (1). That's simple logic. One cannot adopt a left-wing perspective (or any other perspective) on an issue that one has no interest in and nothing to say about.

On the single matter just mentioned, there is no "left-wing" or "right-wing" perspective. The evidence is so overwhelming that questions of interpretation hardly arise. If someone can show that they do, I'll gladly look. But what I have looked at on this question (for example, various elaborate theories about JFK's alleged intentions on Vietnam, or policy changes resulting from his death, or similar things about Cuba, the Cold War, etc.) simply does not begin to withstand rational inquiry. That's true even of work by personal friends who are serious scholars on other issues, but who become so irrational on this issue that they cannot even read the words that are before their eyes, sometimes in the most remarkable ways.

As for whether "power elites perceived JFK to be a threat to the status quo," the statement is close to meaningless. If someone can produce some coherent version of the statement, and then some evidence for that version, I'll be glad to look at it.

I don't know Parenti's work well, but most of what I've read is quite good and useful, except on this topic. That's not unique to him. The JFK assassination has engendered a kind of cult-like reaction, and ordinarily rational people act in what seem to me very strange ways."

http://www.zmag.org/forums/chomskyforumcmt.htm

[Emphasis mine.]

"These articles by Michael Morrissey, Bob Feldman, Daniel Abrahamson, and Benjamin Merhav among others, may get you thinking twice about Noam Chomsky and similar nationally touted "critics" of the government. Chomsky, in particular, is thought of as the creme-de-la-creme of anti-government muckrakers while he simultaneously embraces every facet of the government's cover story when it comes to who was responsible for killing JFK, or the origin of AIDS, or the Vietnam War turn-around following the JFK assassination, or 9-11. Despite appearances to the contrary, Chomsky sides with the government's version of events with virtually every major 'conspiracy' scandal to emerge in the past 45 years."

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/noamchomskyindex.shtml

[Emphasis mine.]

Please take the domain name of this last resource to heart Michael. Ideally before you post again on this, or any, subject.

[Remark and emphasis mine.]

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Strangely enough, Chomsky actually signed onto an early advert in the NY Times that had been arranged by Mark Lane for the Citizens Inquiry Committee (or some such entity related to the assassination), something Chomsky later would most likely not be part of.

I recall one talk or book in which Chomsky talked at length about the improbability of a high level conspiracy to kill JFK, that it simply was not practical. We must understand that Chomsky's analysis of such things are in the context of the ruling class. He saw no reason for one element of the class to eliminate Kennedy. Chomsky believes Kennedy to be a cold warrior of the highest ordrer and by his logic Kennedy was in no way impeding an imperialist or corporatist agenda. I doubt that Chomsky has analysed the facts in this case, he is probably comfortable in his own analysis that he has 'logically' deduced. This is why I have more interest in the writings of Michael Parenti, as he understands the seperations and competitions between the ruling class.

In the same book/lecture that Chomsky says that a conspiracy in the JFK assassination was impossible, he also says that the MLK assassination was most likely the result of a conspiracy, going to highest parts of the Government! I think Noam, like Joan Mellen, does not want to fall into the trap of what they perceive to be the left's idealizing of JFK, something those of us on the radical left don't do. It really doesn't matter how radical leftists saw Kennedy, as they didn't kill him.

So, before you talk to Chomsky about this, be sure to tell him that you never liked JFK anyway!

Personally, I probably wouldn't have voted for Kennedy, as he was an establishment candidate, that is not to say that I can not make rational assessments of his presidency. It is not ideolizing to think, based upon the large amount of evidence, that Kennedy was getting out of Vietnam and that Bobby was going to open the case.

John

Edited by John Geraghty
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I've had suspicions, I've looked through a lot of old threads on CIA propaganda assetts of the "left." A couple of things that keep popping up: Noam Chomsky and MIT. Any opinions?

Tribune, 21/28 August 1998, p.11

Letters: Noam, Sweet Noam

Is Noam Chomsky a dissident? Donavan Pedelty insists so (Tribune, July 31) but the truth is otherwise. Chomsky’s bogusness is revealed by his repeated insistence upon the CIA’s unwavering fidelity to successive Presidents. Where the evidence is contrary, he ignores it. Nowhere is the suppression more systematic than in Rethinking Camelot: JFK, the Vietnam War, and US Political Culture (Verso, 1993). Consider, in particular, his survey of the Vietnam coverage of the New York Times from October 3 to December 4, 1963. One omission, among many, will suffice.

On October 3, 1963, the NYT carried a column entitled “The Intra-Administration War In Vietnam.” It opened: “The Central Intelligence Agency is getting a very bad press in despatches from Vietnam…”

Its author, Arthur Krock, proceeded to quote extensively from one such despatch, “Arrogant CIA Disobeys Orders in Vietnam”, by Richard Starnes of the Scripps-Howard group. The quotes below are from Starnes’s courageous and hauntingly prophetic original.

According to Starnes’s senior diplomatic source, “Twice the CIA flatly refused to carry out instructions from Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge”, even though one set had been brought direct from Washington. Likening the CIA’s growth to a “malignancy”, which he was “not sure event the White House could control any longer”, the source predicted: “If the United States ever experiences a Seven Days in May it will come from the CIA” (Washington Daily News, October 2).

PAUL RIGBY,

BANKS, LANCASHIRE

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The counter culture scene of the 1960s turned ugly once the real heavy stuff showed up,wanna put one up the man, man, drop a tab, "You'd better free your mind instead." (Lennon) Never mind revolution, marching, and fighting for social change, by the late sixties all that mattered was expanding your individual consciousness, why do you think the weathermen were so pissed, and some people believe all this happened by chance!!!! Take one hippie, mix with acid and heroin, hey presto Ladies and Gents Charles Manson. "The dream is over"(Lennon)

Ps, Find out where Owlsley got the trip, making high grade Acid in his bedroom for distribution in haight asbury, flood the streets, kill the dream. opps their goes Jimi, Jim, Janis, Brian. "Go see Alice, when shes ten feet tall" ( Jefferson Airplane)

Stephen, Not to be fussy but, Charles Manson was not a "Hippie", he actually hated them. Manson was a career criminal and a by- product of the prison system, in which he had spent the majority of his days.

-Bill

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