Jump to content
The Education Forum

The Other Oswald['s]


Robert Howard
 Share

Recommended Posts

The point of this new thread is a succinct analysis of the known individuals who:

1. Are believed or, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest said individual was impersonating Lee Harvey Oswald, prior to 11/22/63.

2. Bore a resemblance to Oswald, with a loose interpretation of the word resemblance.

There are several obvious names which come to mind.

1. John Thomas Masen

2. Robert Alan Surrey

2. Thomas Eli Davis III

3. Daniel Carswell

4. Charles Rogers

5. Larry Crafard

6. Gordon Novel

7. William Seymour

To start the ball rolling, I am providing a segment from Warren Comm. CE 2787.....

[link below]

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=212

.....which begins rather matter of factly, by stating that Oswald was residing at the Hotel Del Comercio from Sept 27-Oct 1, 1963..... then, there are four underlined names mentioned --- one of the names is of ERNESTO LIMA JUAREZ, who, had advised previously that he "believed he had seen OSWALD conversing with two Cuban-Negroes who were residing at the Hotel Del Comercio. LIMA JUAREZ had previously stated that he had seen four Cuban's during the period he had resided there......"

Later in the document, it mentions "A photograph of ANTONIO OLIVA was shown to LIMA JUAREZ, and LIMA JUAREZ immediately identified the photograph as being a photograph of the 'Cuban Negro' who lived in a room on the roof of the Hotel del Comercio with a Mexican girl.".....The Report continues....."JUAREZ stated that shortly after his arrival at the Hotel del Comercio in mid-September he saw OLIVA and another Cuban Negro standing at the entrance of the Hotel del Comercio, conversing with a person believed by LIMA JUAREZ to be an American.

LIMA JUAREZ recalled this American as being a young white male, about five-foot eight inches tall, with a dark complexion and definite Latin characteristics. LIMA JUAREZ specifically noted that this individual had curly black hair, with a marked widow's peak and a noticeably high forehead."

While the portion of the document referenced regarding Lima Juarez, and the American he is describing as talking to the two Cuban's, is obviously not Lee Harvey Oswald, [unless his description is totally inaccurate]

I included it because it documents activity at the Hotel del Comercio, before the arrival of Lee H. Oswald

describing an American other than Oswald, and also because I thought the description of the individual might ring a bell to any Forum members with a large photographic collection, or anyone else for that matter.

Mark Bridger is an excellent source on the various other Oswald's his articles can be found in the Dealey Plaza Echo.

Robert

Edited by Robert Howard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point of this new thread is a succinct analysis of the known individuals who:

1. Are believed or, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest said individual was impersonating Lee Harvey Oswald, prior to 11/22/63.

2. Bore a resemblance to Oswald, with a loose interpretation of the word resemblance.

There are several obvious names which come to mind.

1. John Thomas Masen

2. Robert Alan Surrey

2. Thomas Eli Davis III

3. Daniel Carswell

4. Charles Rogers

5. Larry Crafard

6. Gordon Novel

7. William Seymour

To start the ball rolling, I am providing a segment from Warren Comm. CE 2787.....

[link below]

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=212

.....which begins rather matter of factly, by stating that Oswald was residing at the Hotel Del Comercio from Sept 27-Oct 1, 1963..... then, there are four underlined names mentioned --- one of the names is of ERNESTO LIMA JUAREZ, who, had advised previously that he "believed he had seen OSWALD conversing with two Cuban-Negroes who were residing at the Hotel Del Comercio. LIMA JUAREZ had previously stated that he had seen four Cuban's during the period he had resided there......"

Later in the document, it mentions "A photograph of ANTONIO OLIVA was shown to LIMA JUAREZ, and LIMA JUAREZ immediately identified the photograph as being a photograph of the 'Cuban Negro' who lived in a room on the roof of the Hotel del Comercio with a Mexican girl.".....The Report continues....."JUAREZ stated that shortly after his arrival at the Hotel del Comercio in mid-September he saw OLIVA and another Cuban Negro standing at the entrance of the Hotel del Comercio, conversing with a person believed by LIMA JUAREZ to be an American.

LIMA JUAREZ recalled this American as being a young white male, about five-foot eight inches tall, with a dark complexion and definite Latin characteristics. LIMA JUAREZ specifically noted that this individual had curly black hair, with a marked widow's peak and a noticeably high forehead."

While the portion of the document referenced regarding Lima Juarez, and the American he is describing as talking to the two Cuban's, is obviously not Lee Harvey Oswald, [unless his description is totally inaccurate]

I included it because it documents activity at the Hotel del Comercio, before the arrival of Lee H. Oswald

describing an American other than Oswald, and also because I thought the description of the individual might ring a bell to any Forum members with a large photographic collection, or anyone else for that matter.

Mark Bridger is an excellent source on the various other Oswald's his articles can be found in the Dealey Plaza Echo.

Robert

Your topic ignores the most relevant question...WHICH OSWALD, Lee or Harvey?

But to go along with your topic, you leave off the list THE MOST OBVIOUS PERSON

who was almost identical to Lee...ROBERT LEE OSWALD. Since many researchers

consider that both Lee and Robert were in intelligence work, Robert could have been

used to impersonate Harvey.

Jack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point of this new thread is a succinct analysis of the known individuals who:

1. Are believed or, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest said individual was impersonating Lee Harvey Oswald, prior to 11/22/63.

2. Bore a resemblance to Oswald, with a loose interpretation of the word resemblance.

There are several obvious names which come to mind.

1. John Thomas Masen

2. Robert Alan Surrey

2. Thomas Eli Davis III

3. Daniel Carswell

4. Charles Rogers

5. Larry Crafard

6. Gordon Novel

7. William Seymour

To start the ball rolling, I am providing a segment from Warren Comm. CE 2787.....

[link below]

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=212

.....which begins rather matter of factly, by stating that Oswald was residing at the Hotel Del Comercio from Sept 27-Oct 1, 1963..... then, there are four underlined names mentioned --- one of the names is of ERNESTO LIMA JUAREZ, who, had advised previously that he "believed he had seen OSWALD conversing with two Cuban-Negroes who were residing at the Hotel Del Comercio. LIMA JUAREZ had previously stated that he had seen four Cuban's during the period he had resided there......"

Later in the document, it mentions "A photograph of ANTONIO OLIVA was shown to LIMA JUAREZ, and LIMA JUAREZ immediately identified the photograph as being a photograph of the 'Cuban Negro' who lived in a room on the roof of the Hotel del Comercio with a Mexican girl.".....The Report continues....."JUAREZ stated that shortly after his arrival at the Hotel del Comercio in mid-September he saw OLIVA and another Cuban Negro standing at the entrance of the Hotel del Comercio, conversing with a person believed by LIMA JUAREZ to be an American.

LIMA JUAREZ recalled this American as being a young white male, about five-foot eight inches tall, with a dark complexion and definite Latin characteristics. LIMA JUAREZ specifically noted that this individual had curly black hair, with a marked widow's peak and a noticeably high forehead."

While the portion of the document referenced regarding Lima Juarez, and the American he is describing as talking to the two Cuban's, is obviously not Lee Harvey Oswald, [unless his description is totally inaccurate]

I included it because it documents activity at the Hotel del Comercio, before the arrival of Lee H. Oswald

describing an American other than Oswald, and also because I thought the description of the individual might ring a bell to any Forum members with a large photographic collection, or anyone else for that matter.

Mark Bridger is an excellent source on the various other Oswald's his articles can be found in the Dealey Plaza Echo.

Robert

Your topic ignores the most relevant question...WHICH OSWALD, Lee or Harvey?

But to go along with your topic, you leave off the list THE MOST OBVIOUS PERSON

who was almost identical to Lee...ROBERT LEE OSWALD. Since many researchers

consider that both Lee and Robert were in intelligence work, Robert could have been

used to impersonate Harvey.

Jack

The idea Jack, was that the names I submitted were provided as a beginning, and was not intended to be a de facto list of every Oswald impersonator, having said that, the idea of the thread is to have contributions from other Forum Members, providing and exploring documented examples of activities of these indivduals as well as other's [which you have just, in effect done, as there is documentation that Robert Oswald was '"believed to have" went to Mexico in roughly the same time frame as Lee Harvey Oswald did,] But, has anyone seen a document that put's Robert Oswald over the border? [And if no one has seen such documentation, that does not IMO mean "he was not there"]

The reason I did not include the name "Harvey Lee Oswald" on the list is, what incriminating documents would PROVE that this person existed?

[NOTE: I am not saying that there was no HARVEY LEE OSWALD, as my opinion is in fact probably identical to yours in that regard, but having hard evidence, ie documents, to that effect boils down to mention of a "Oswald Project" mentioned by Wilcott and bit's and pieces of testimony/documents by various individuals that point in that direction.]

So, again the idea was, the first post of the thread was intended as a beginning to be followed by contributions from Forum members, [i especially welcome your thought's] in developing new leads, in effect , or, at least developing some degree of consensus regarding the subject. I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to do.

Edited by Robert Howard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point of this new thread is a succinct analysis of the known individuals who:

1. Are believed or, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest said individual was impersonating Lee Harvey Oswald, prior to 11/22/63.

2. Bore a resemblance to Oswald, with a loose interpretation of the word resemblance.

There are several obvious names which come to mind.

1. John Thomas Masen

2. Robert Alan Surrey

2. Thomas Eli Davis III

3. Daniel Carswell

4. Charles Rogers

5. Larry Crafard

6. Gordon Novel

7. William Seymour

To start the ball rolling, I am providing a segment from Warren Comm. CE 2787.....

[link below]

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=212

.....which begins rather matter of factly, by stating that Oswald was residing at the Hotel Del Comercio from Sept 27-Oct 1, 1963..... then, there are four underlined names mentioned --- one of the names is of ERNESTO LIMA JUAREZ, who, had advised previously that he "believed he had seen OSWALD conversing with two Cuban-Negroes who were residing at the Hotel Del Comercio. LIMA JUAREZ had previously stated that he had seen four Cuban's during the period he had resided there......"

Later in the document, it mentions "A photograph of ANTONIO OLIVA was shown to LIMA JUAREZ, and LIMA JUAREZ immediately identified the photograph as being a photograph of the 'Cuban Negro' who lived in a room on the roof of the Hotel del Comercio with a Mexican girl.".....The Report continues....."JUAREZ stated that shortly after his arrival at the Hotel del Comercio in mid-September he saw OLIVA and another Cuban Negro standing at the entrance of the Hotel del Comercio, conversing with a person believed by LIMA JUAREZ to be an American.

LIMA JUAREZ recalled this American as being a young white male, about five-foot eight inches tall, with a dark complexion and definite Latin characteristics. LIMA JUAREZ specifically noted that this individual had curly black hair, with a marked widow's peak and a noticeably high forehead."

While the portion of the document referenced regarding Lima Juarez, and the American he is describing as talking to the two Cuban's, is obviously not Lee Harvey Oswald, [unless his description is totally inaccurate]

I included it because it documents activity at the Hotel del Comercio, before the arrival of Lee H. Oswald

describing an American other than Oswald, and also because I thought the description of the individual might ring a bell to any Forum members with a large photographic collection, or anyone else for that matter.

Mark Bridger is an excellent source on the various other Oswald's his articles can be found in the Dealey Plaza Echo.

Robert

Your topic ignores the most relevant question...WHICH OSWALD, Lee or Harvey?

But to go along with your topic, you leave off the list THE MOST OBVIOUS PERSON

who was almost identical to Lee...ROBERT LEE OSWALD. Since many researchers

consider that both Lee and Robert were in intelligence work, Robert could have been

used to impersonate Harvey.

Jack

I forget exactly which photo Pic was referring to, but, when asked if it was LHO, Pic responded that it

looked like Robert. Anyone remember which photo was being discussed?

I looked through my Oswald stuff and found this..which I believe is the photo that Pic said was Robert.

Edited by Chuck Robbins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point of this new thread is a succinct analysis of the known individuals who:

1. Are believed or, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest said individual was impersonating Lee Harvey Oswald, prior to 11/22/63.

2. Bore a resemblance to Oswald, with a loose interpretation of the word resemblance.

There are several obvious names which come to mind.

1. John Thomas Masen

2. Robert Alan Surrey

2. Thomas Eli Davis III

3. Daniel Carswell

4. Charles Rogers

5. Larry Crafard

6. Gordon Novel

7. William Seymour

To start the ball rolling, I am providing a segment from Warren Comm. CE 2787.....

[link below]

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=212

.....which begins rather matter of factly, by stating that Oswald was residing at the Hotel Del Comercio from Sept 27-Oct 1, 1963..... then, there are four underlined names mentioned --- one of the names is of ERNESTO LIMA JUAREZ, who, had advised previously that he "believed he had seen OSWALD conversing with two Cuban-Negroes who were residing at the Hotel Del Comercio. LIMA JUAREZ had previously stated that he had seen four Cuban's during the period he had resided there......"

Later in the document, it mentions "A photograph of ANTONIO OLIVA was shown to LIMA JUAREZ, and LIMA JUAREZ immediately identified the photograph as being a photograph of the 'Cuban Negro' who lived in a room on the roof of the Hotel del Comercio with a Mexican girl.".....The Report continues....."JUAREZ stated that shortly after his arrival at the Hotel del Comercio in mid-September he saw OLIVA and another Cuban Negro standing at the entrance of the Hotel del Comercio, conversing with a person believed by LIMA JUAREZ to be an American.

LIMA JUAREZ recalled this American as being a young white male, about five-foot eight inches tall, with a dark complexion and definite Latin characteristics. LIMA JUAREZ specifically noted that this individual had curly black hair, with a marked widow's peak and a noticeably high forehead."

While the portion of the document referenced regarding Lima Juarez, and the American he is describing as talking to the two Cuban's, is obviously not Lee Harvey Oswald, [unless his description is totally inaccurate]

I included it because it documents activity at the Hotel del Comercio, before the arrival of Lee H. Oswald

describing an American other than Oswald, and also because I thought the description of the individual might ring a bell to any Forum members with a large photographic collection, or anyone else for that matter.

Mark Bridger is an excellent source on the various other Oswald's his articles can be found in the Dealey Plaza Echo.

Robert

Your topic ignores the most relevant question...WHICH OSWALD, Lee or Harvey?

But to go along with your topic, you leave off the list THE MOST OBVIOUS PERSON

who was almost identical to Lee...ROBERT LEE OSWALD. Since many researchers

consider that both Lee and Robert were in intelligence work, Robert could have been

used to impersonate Harvey.

Jack

I forget exactly which photo Pic was referring to, but, when asked if it was LHO, Pic responded that it

looked like Robert. Anyone remember which photo was being discussed?

I looked through my Oswald stuff and found this..which I believe is the photo that Pic said was Robert.

One of the "Oswald encounter's" that has received scant attention [but should have received more] took place in Leningrad, [if you take the claim as fact] according to Fritz Dieter Jaegar, a German Merchant Mariner, who at the time of the Kennedy assassination was living in Fort Worth!

What makes the story all the more interesting is the fact that Mr Jaegar inhabited the same social circle of the Fort Worth nightclub scene that strippers and waitresses who were connected to the world of Jack Ruby.

See WC CD 7 from Report of SA Gemberling below

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=476

On November 7, 1963 ROCKY RHODES, Manager, Cattleman's Steak House, Fort Worth, Texas advised SA Malon Lucas Jennings he had been furnished information by one of his waitresses APPOLONIA CHRISTINE GRAVES, which may be of interest. GRAVES claimed she had been introduced to FRITZ DIETER JAEGER in the Stork Club, of Camp Bowie Boulevard, in Fort Worth, Texas as a fellow countryman. Since that time JAEGER has tried to date her, and more recently in a telephone conversation with her JAEGER mentioned that he knew LEE HARVEY OSWALD.

FRITZ DIETER JAEGER, 1916 Bell Place, Fort Worth, Texas, was interviewed at the Shady Oaks Country Club where he has been employed since July 30, 1963, in the kitchen.

JAEGER, came to the United States on July, 13, 1963, from Cologne, Germany.

His purpose in coming to the United States was to visit an aunt and uncle, R.R. Crump, 1316 Belle Place. He does not stay with his relatives but in a room nearby at the corner of Camp Bowie and Clover Lane. JAEGER said he like it here in Fort Worth and recently applied for a resident visa with Immigration and Naturalization Service, Dallas, Texas.

JAEGER was in the German Merchant Marine from approximately 1960 to 1963. After getting out of the Merchant Marine, he then worked in Cologne, Germany, at the Opra Restaurant as a kitchen butcher until he came to the United States in July, 1963.

While JAEGER was in the German Merchant Marine, his ship docked in many Russian ports including Leningrad, Russia. He said that he had been to Leningrad two or three different times. To the best of his recollection, while in Leningrad during 1961, he and his shipmates visited the Inter Club. This club is known as the International Club and is set up by Russia only for foreigners. No Russian nationals were allowed at the club except for the workers. JAEGER described the club as an information center for the Russians. It consisted of a large room which had two microphones throughout the club to overhear any conversations throughout the building. The drinks are free and there are Russian's there to entertain, and elicit any information from foreigners by eavesdropping and questioning.

JAEGER said that on this visit to Leningrad and while at the Inter Club, he went to a cinema with someone he believed was OSWALD and identical with LEE HARVEY OSWALD. JAEGER said he was brought together with this OSWALD because OSWALD and JAEGER were in a group speaking English. During the cinema, JAEGER sat alongside OSWALD and asked him many questions about the film which was in English, and JAEGER did not understand everything that was said.

JAEGER said he did not talk to OSWALD very much, and OSWALD never talked much with him because of microphones placed around the building. JAEGER said he did not ask if OSWALD was there as a foreigner or a Russian. JAEGER said he did not have to ask OSWALD this because in his own mind he knew that OSWALD was a communist and working there. Further, OSWALD did not leave the Inter Club when it closed at midnight to him and his shipmates. JAEGER admitted that the possibility existed that OSWALD could have been a tourist and could have had a different type pass from what he had.

JAEGER said the Secret Service in Dallas, Texas exhibited him a photograph of a woman which he identified as being known as LOBUJIR MARREKA [phonetic] and which woman he had seen in the Inter Club as an entertainer. JAEGER said that he cannot remember whether he ever talked to her, danced with her or that he saw her more than once during his visits to the Inter Club. He said this woman could have handed him a magazine, but JAEGER was not specific in any contacts with this woman whom he identified for the Secret Service.

With regard to any conversation JAEGER had with Oswald, he said that Oswald only asked him if he ever docked on the Gulf Coast of the United States. Before JAEGER answered Oswald said he knew the Gulf Coast very well.

JAEGER said that the first time that he knew that Oswald was an American was approximately a week ago when he was accused of the assassination of former President John F. Kennedy. He related that the Secret Service had shown him a picture of a marine in uniform, allegedly Oswald, and he had seen LEE HARVEY OSWALD's [icture on television. With regard to identifying OSWALD, JAEGER said that he cannot say for sure that the Oswald he sat next to in the Inter Club is the same as LEE HARVEY OSWALD, but he is 90% sure.

JAEGER mentioned that he might have OSWALD's name in a book which he has in Cologne, Germany. He stated it was his practice to write names of people that he met at the Inter Club in this book, and he has written to Cologne for the book and will supply it to the Secret Service when he receives it.

JAEGER stated that he has been to Dallas, Texas only to talk with the Secret Service and the other time to the Immigration and Naturalization Service for a resident visa.

FRITZ DIETER JAEGER was re-interviewed at the Shady Oaks Country Club where he is employed as a cook. He advised that on Saturday night, November 30, 1963 he visited the Hightop Club, a tavern on the Jacksboro Highway. JAEGER was driving a 1956 Ford, Victoria, which he is buying from WOLFGANG H. SCHMITZ, a Chef at the Club. JAEGER admitted taking a signed statement which he had previously given the Secret Service when interviewed by them. He said that he did not read, or understand, English well and wanted someone to help him read it. Further, it was not his intention to divulge any information in discussing the statement with Ronnie [last name unknown], owner or manager of the Hightop Club but to determine if he had done the right thing because RONNIE was his friend. He stated that he furnished all the information he knew about OSWALD when previously interviewed and he again reiterated that he was 90 per cent sure that it was OSWALD and his wife that he saw in the Inter Club in Leningrad, Russia, when he visited the Club while in the German Merchant Marine. JAEGER again denied knowing Ruby. He says he had talked about this at the Hightop Club, but he was misquoted or misunderstood by the people there.

JAEGER indicated that he had talked to Christine Graves, a waitress at the Cattlemen's Restaurant in Fort Worth. It was his impression that she was going to Cologne, Germany, where she is from, and it was she who had called him asking if he had any information that she could carry to his folks there in the way of greetings. JAEGER stated that he and Miss GRAVES only discussed things of common interest, namely the fact that they were both born in Cologne, Germany.

JAEGER was requested to refrain from making statements concerning LEE HARVEY OSWALD and JACK RUBY, and to furnish such information asa he may have to the appropriate authorities. JAEGER agreed to furnish any additional information coming to his attention, or any recollections that he may have of his possible contacts with OSWALD to the FBI.

END

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point of this new thread is a succinct analysis of the known individuals who:

1. Are believed or, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest said individual was impersonating Lee Harvey Oswald, prior to 11/22/63.

2. Bore a resemblance to Oswald, with a loose interpretation of the word resemblance.

There are several obvious names which come to mind.

1. John Thomas Masen

2. Robert Alan Surrey

2. Thomas Eli Davis III

3. Daniel Carswell

4. Charles Rogers

5. Larry Crafard

6. Gordon Novel

7. William Seymour

To start the ball rolling, I am providing a segment from Warren Comm. CE 2787.....

[link below]

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=212

.....which begins rather matter of factly, by stating that Oswald was residing at the Hotel Del Comercio from Sept 27-Oct 1, 1963..... then, there are four underlined names mentioned --- one of the names is of ERNESTO LIMA JUAREZ, who, had advised previously that he "believed he had seen OSWALD conversing with two Cuban-Negroes who were residing at the Hotel Del Comercio. LIMA JUAREZ had previously stated that he had seen four Cuban's during the period he had resided there......"

Later in the document, it mentions "A photograph of ANTONIO OLIVA was shown to LIMA JUAREZ, and LIMA JUAREZ immediately identified the photograph as being a photograph of the 'Cuban Negro' who lived in a room on the roof of the Hotel del Comercio with a Mexican girl.".....The Report continues....."JUAREZ stated that shortly after his arrival at the Hotel del Comercio in mid-September he saw OLIVA and another Cuban Negro standing at the entrance of the Hotel del Comercio, conversing with a person believed by LIMA JUAREZ to be an American.

LIMA JUAREZ recalled this American as being a young white male, about five-foot eight inches tall, with a dark complexion and definite Latin characteristics. LIMA JUAREZ specifically noted that this individual had curly black hair, with a marked widow's peak and a noticeably high forehead."

While the portion of the document referenced regarding Lima Juarez, and the American he is describing as talking to the two Cuban's, is obviously not Lee Harvey Oswald, [unless his description is totally inaccurate]

I included it because it documents activity at the Hotel del Comercio, before the arrival of Lee H. Oswald

describing an American other than Oswald, and also because I thought the description of the individual might ring a bell to any Forum members with a large photographic collection, or anyone else for that matter.

Mark Bridger is an excellent source on the various other Oswald's his articles can be found in the Dealey Plaza Echo.

Robert

Your topic ignores the most relevant question...WHICH OSWALD, Lee or Harvey?

But to go along with your topic, you leave off the list THE MOST OBVIOUS PERSON

who was almost identical to Lee...ROBERT LEE OSWALD. Since many researchers

consider that both Lee and Robert were in intelligence work, Robert could have been

used to impersonate Harvey.

Jack

I forget exactly which photo Pic was referring to, but, when asked if it was LHO, Pic responded that it

looked like Robert. Anyone remember which photo was being discussed?

I looked through my Oswald stuff and found this..which I believe is the photo that Pic said was Robert.

One of the "Oswald encounter's" that has received scant attention [but should have received more] took place in Leningrad, [if you take the claim as fact] according to Fritz Dieter Jaegar, a German Merchant Mariner, who at the time of the Kennedy assassination was living in Fort Worth!

What makes the story all the more interesting is the fact that Mr Jaegar inhabited the same social circle of the Fort Worth nightclub scene that strippers and waitresses who were connected to the world of Jack Ruby.

See WC CD 7 from Report of SA Gemberling below

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=476

On November 7, 1963 ROCKY RHODES, Manager, Cattleman's Steak House, Fort Worth, Texas advised SA Malon Lucas Jennings he had been furnished information by one of his waitresses APPOLONIA CHRISTINE GRAVES, which may be of interest. GRAVES claimed she had been introduced to FRITZ DIETER JAEGER in the Stork Club, of Camp Bowie Boulevard, in Fort Worth, Texas as a fellow countryman. Since that time JAEGER has tried to date her, and more recently in a telephone conversation with her JAEGER mentioned that he knew LEE HARVEY OSWALD.

FRITZ DIETER JAEGER, 1916 Bell Place, Fort Worth, Texas, was interviewed at the Shady Oaks Country Club where he has been employed since July 30, 1963, in the kitchen.

JAEGER, came to the United States on July, 13, 1963, from Cologne, Germany.

His purpose in coming to the United States was to visit an aunt and uncle, R.R. Crump, 1316 Belle Place. He does not stay with his relatives but in a room nearby at the corner of Camp Bowie and Clover Lane. JAEGER said he like it here in Fort Worth and recently applied for a resident visa with Immigration and Naturalization Service, Dallas, Texas.

JAEGER was in the German Merchant Marine from approximately 1960 to 1963. After getting out of the Merchant Marine, he then worked in Cologne, Germany, at the Opra Restaurant as a kitchen butcher until he came to the United States in July, 1963.

While JAEGER was in the German Merchant Marine, his ship docked in many Russian ports including Leningrad, Russia. He said that he had been to Leningrad two or three different times. To the best of his recollection, while in Leningrad during 1961, he and his shipmates visited the Inter Club. This club is known as the International Club and is set up by Russia only for foreigners. No Russian nationals were allowed at the club except for the workers. JAEGER described the club as an information center for the Russians. It consisted of a large room which had two microphones throughout the club to overhear any conversations throughout the building. The drinks are free and there are Russian's there to entertain, and elicit any information from foreigners by eavesdropping and questioning.

JAEGER said that on this visit to Leningrad and while at the Inter Club, he went to a cinema with someone he believed was OSWALD and identical with LEE HARVEY OSWALD. JAEGER said he was brought together with this OSWALD because OSWALD and JAEGER were in a group speaking English. During the cinema, JAEGER sat alongside OSWALD and asked him many questions about the film which was in English, and JAEGER did not understand everything that was said.

JAEGER said he did not talk to OSWALD very much, and OSWALD never talked much with him because of microphones placed around the building. JAEGER said he did not ask if OSWALD was there as a foreigner or a Russian. JAEGER said he did not have to ask OSWALD this because in his own mind he knew that OSWALD was a communist and working there. Further, OSWALD did not leave the Inter Club when it closed at midnight to him and his shipmates. JAEGER admitted that the possibility existed that OSWALD could have been a tourist and could have had a different type pass from what he had.

JAEGER said the Secret Service in Dallas, Texas exhibited him a photograph of a woman which he identified as being known as LOBUJIR MARREKA [phonetic] and which woman he had seen in the Inter Club as an entertainer. JAEGER said that he cannot remember whether he ever talked to her, danced with her or that he saw her more than once during his visits to the Inter Club. He said this woman could have handed him a magazine, but JAEGER was not specific in any contacts with this woman whom he identified for the Secret Service.

With regard to any conversation JAEGER had with Oswald, he said that Oswald only asked him if he ever docked on the Gulf Coast of the United States. Before JAEGER answered Oswald said he knew the Gulf Coast very well.

JAEGER said that the first time that he knew that Oswald was an American was approximately a week ago when he was accused of the assassination of former President John F. Kennedy. He related that the Secret Service had shown him a picture of a marine in uniform, allegedly Oswald, and he had seen LEE HARVEY OSWALD's [icture on television. With regard to identifying OSWALD, JAEGER said that he cannot say for sure that the Oswald he sat next to in the Inter Club is the same as LEE HARVEY OSWALD, but he is 90% sure.

JAEGER mentioned that he might have OSWALD's name in a book which he has in Cologne, Germany. He stated it was his practice to write names of people that he met at the Inter Club in this book, and he has written to Cologne for the book and will supply it to the Secret Service when he receives it.

JAEGER stated that he has been to Dallas, Texas only to talk with the Secret Service and the other time to the Immigration and Naturalization Service for a resident visa.

FRITZ DIETER JAEGER was re-interviewed at the Shady Oaks Country Club where he is employed as a cook. He advised that on Saturday night, November 30, 1963 he visited the Hightop Club, a tavern on the Jacksboro Highway. JAEGER was driving a 1956 Ford, Victoria, which he is buying from WOLFGANG H. SCHMITZ, a Chef at the Club. JAEGER admitted taking a signed statement which he had previously given the Secret Service when interviewed by them. He said that he did not read, or understand, English well and wanted someone to help him read it. Further, it was not his intention to divulge any information in discussing the statement with Ronnie [last name unknown], owner or manager of the Hightop Club but to determine if he had done the right thing because RONNIE was his friend. He stated that he furnished all the information he knew about OSWALD when previously interviewed and he again reiterated that he was 90 per cent sure that it was OSWALD and his wife that he saw in the Inter Club in Leningrad, Russia, when he visited the Club while in the German Merchant Marine. JAEGER again denied knowing Ruby. He says he had talked about this at the Hightop Club, but he was misquoted or misunderstood by the people there.

JAEGER indicated that he had talked to Christine Graves, a waitress at the Cattlemen's Restaurant in Fort Worth. It was his impression that she was going to Cologne, Germany, where she is from, and it was she who had called him asking if he had any information that she could carry to his folks there in the way of greetings. JAEGER stated that he and Miss GRAVES only discussed things of common interest, namely the fact that they were both born in Cologne, Germany.

JAEGER was requested to refrain from making statements concerning LEE HARVEY OSWALD and JACK RUBY, and to furnish such information as he may have to the appropriate authorities. JAEGER agreed to furnish any additional information coming to his attention, or any recollections that he may have of his possible contacts with OSWALD to the FBI.

END

PS There are, I believe, those who speculate that Jaeger was actually talking to Robert Webster [another "defector" who was said to 'resemble' Oswald.] I was not able to locate a photo of Webster, maybe someone on the Forum has one.

Edited by Robert Howard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

From WCD 1518 FBI Interview of John Wesley Pennington dated 09/01/64 - SA Richard J Burnett.

JOHN WESLEY PENNINGTON, 405 North Clinton Street, - Dallas Texas, advised that he is retired.

Mr. PENNINGTON advised that sometime between 12:00 noon and 1:00 P.M., Friday November 22, 1963, his wife, ODA, and he had taken some wash to the Tidy Lady Launderette, 1227 Davis Street, which is located at the northeast corner of Davis and North Clinton in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas, Texas, approximately two blocks from their place of residence.

His wife and he were the only individuals in the laundromat, which is a self-service, coin-operated establishment.

After they were inside the laundromat waiting on their wash, an unknown individual drove up alone in a light-colored station wagon, year and make unknown, and parked on the East side of north Clinton Street, just north of the Davis-Clinton intersection, and by the side door of the laundromat.

This unknown person hurried around the corner onto the north side of Davis, walked several feet, turned around, entered the laundromat, and went directly to the pay phone located inside the laundromat, he did seem to notice the PENNINGTON's sitting in the laundromat.

This individual made a local telephone call, spoke briefly to some unknown person, and left the laundromat walking at a quick pace, crossed Davis Street, and headed south on North Clinton Street. He did not re-enter his automobile.

Mr. PENNINGTON stated he did not ever hear any of this person's telephone conversation. Mr. PENNINGTON stated to his wife that this man acted as if he were in some kind of trouble.

He advised that he paid no particular attention to this incident until shortly after he arrived home when he received a long-distance telephone call from his daughter in Phoenix, Arizona, asking him if they heard about the assassination of President KENNEDY. Up until this telephone call, Mr. PENNINGTON stated that neither his wife nor he had heard the news of the assassination.

Later when his wife and he viewed the photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD on television, they commented that OSWALD appeared to be the same person they had seen at the laudromat on Friday, November 22, 1963.

Mr. PENNINGTON stated that the person they saw at the laundromat, who they believe was possibly identical to LEE HARVEY OSWALD, was wearing a medium brown jacket with dark brown vertical stripes, closed to the collar, and dark pants.

He does not recall whether the jacket was a zipper or button-down style. The individual wore no hat.

Mrs. ODA PENNINGTON, 405 North Clinton Street, - Dallas Texas, advised she is the wife of JOHN WESLEY PENNINGTON. Mrs. PENNINGTON furnished substantially the same information as her husband regarding the individual she believes was identical with LEE HARVEY OSWALD, who stopped at the Tidy Lady Launderette, on the northeast corner of Davis and North Clinton Streets, Dallas, sometime shortly after noon on Friday, November 22, 1963.

Mrs. PENNINGTON noted that she is hard of hearing and could not hear any of this person's telephone conversation inside the laundromat. She was unable to describe this person's automobile other tan it was a light-colored station wagon.

END

Edited by Robert Howard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

PS There are, I believe, those who speculate that Jaeger was actually talking to Robert Webster [another "defector" who was said to 'resemble' Oswald.] I was not able to locate a photo of Webster, maybe someone on the Forum has one. (Robert Howard)

Robert Webster below.

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

XI. ROBERT WEBSTER

Robert E. Webster, an employee of the Rand Development Co., made several trips to the Soviet Union in order to prepare for the 1959 U.S. exhibition in Moscow. (230) While there for 7 weeks, beginning in May 1959, Webster steadily dated the hostess employed at the Hotel Ukraine's tourist restaurant. (231) She worked there during the period correspondents accompanying Vice President Nixon's visit to the U.S.S.R. resided there, and was suspected of being a KGB agent. (232) Webster informed his girlfriend he wished to divorce his wife in the United States and return to the Soviet Union to marry her. (233)

Webster first revealed his desire to defect on July 11, 1959. He approached the two Soviet officials in charge of arrangements for the exhibi- tion at the fairgrounds and requested information concerning the procedures for a U.S. citizen to remain in the U.S.S.R. (235) Webster was told to call one of the officials in their Solkolniki Park office and a meeting was set up.(236)

A few days later, the English-speaking official Webster had met previously, escorted him to a private room in a restaurant. (237) A represen- tative of the Soviet Government, questioned him about his desire to remain in the Soviet Union.(238) The representative was also interested in whether Webster had told other Americans of his interest to defect and instructed him not to. (239) While intoxicated with vodka Webster was told to write a letter to the Supreme Soviet requesting to remain as a Soviet citizen. (240) He did so and was given a biographic data sheet to take with him and fill out.(241)

Subsequently when Webster submitted the data sheet, he stated that his dissatisfaction with the United States was due to the tendency of American employers to hire a man and then fire him when he had learned the job. (242) This reason was not acceptable because Webster had not personally experienced this. (243) He rewrote the form to state that in the United States, Government controlled big business.(244) He also wrote that he wished to work, marry, have children, earn a degree and learn the Russian language in the Soviet Union.(245) Although he stated he wished to cooperate in every way with the Soviet Union, the Soviet authorities tried to dissuade Webster from defecting.(246)

In the last of July or early August, Webster attended what described as a serious, no drinking meeting held in a private restaurant room at the Metropole Hotel.(247) Webster told two Soviet chemists he could help them make the Rand spray gun he had demonstrated at the U.S. Exhibition.(248) On September 9 he was told he had been accepted by the Soviets. (249) Although he had requested to work in Moscow, Webster was informed he would be sent to Leningrad. (250 )

The following day the Soviet officials registered Webster at the Bucharist Hotel, and instructed him not to leave.(254) He was given 1,000 old rubles and asked to write a note to a Rand employee requesting the money be left for him at the hotel because he was on a tour of Russia. (252)

There was a short party for Webster on September 11. (253) He was immediately flown to Leningrad with an interpreter and met by an Intourist representative.(254) He applied for work at the Leningrad Scientific Research Institute, Polymerized Plastics and lived in the Baltiskaya Hotel for a month. (255) He was allowed to call his girlfriend and she was allowed to visit and make plans for a vacation. (256)

On October 17, 1959 Webster was staying in Moscow.(257) He artended a meeting at the central office, visas and registrar, ion (OVIR) with the original Soviet representative he had contact with, an unknown Soviet, H.J. Rand. his assistant George H. Bookbinder and Richard E. Snyder of the U.S. Embassy. (258) Webster stated he was free to speak, and told Snyder when he had applied for Soviet citizenship, he had been granted a Soviet passport on September 21, 1959.(259) He filled out a form entitled "Affidavit for Expatriated Person" and wrote his resignation to Rand Development Corp. (260)

Webster later explained he had no Soviet documentation at the time, having in his possession an American passport which he never sent to Snyder as requested.(261) Webster stated the Soviets had instructed him to say his reasons for defecting were political. (262)

Webster's girlfriend joined him the following day and both went on a month vacation at the Suitland Sanitarium in Sochi. (263) They returned to Leningrad and began work at the institute, where his girlfriend was employed as an assistant and translator. (264) Webster received 280 rubles per month and a semiannual bonus of 50 to 60 rubles. (265) He lived with his girlfriend in a new apartment building and had three rooms with a bath. (266)

After writing a summary of his life, listing his relatives and where they worked, submitting pictures of himself and undergoing medical examination, Webster was granted a Soviet internal passport.(267) In December 1959 or January 1960, he turned over his American passport and obtained the Soviet passport at the OVIR office in Leningrad. (268)

On January 27, 1960, a letter was delivered to Webster from his father.(269) It contained news of his mother's nervous breakdown and word that his father had assumed financial support of Webster's children. (270) At that point, Webster decided to return to the United States.(271)

A note in Webster's file stated that on April 6, 1969, he was to give a speech on the United States, although there was no indication whether he, in fact, did make the address. (272)

The original Soviet representative in Moscow arranged for Webster and his girlfriend to visit there for the May Day celebration.(273) Webster entered the U.S. Embassy unchallenged, due to his American clothing.(274) He informed John McVicker that he wished to return to the United States. (275) He was told to apply for a Soviet exit visa. (276)

Webster requested two notarized invitations for his return to the United States, to be made by his father, copies to be sent to the American Embassy. (277) His girl friend helped him fill out the application for a Soviet exit visa and gave her consent, which was required. (278)

Webster's girlfriend gave birth to Svetlana Robertovna Webster in August 1960.(279) The child was immediately adopted by Webster and reistered. (280) During the majority of the time after this. Svetlana's Russian grandmother also lived in the Webster apartment.(281) Webster was assigned a new translator at the Institute.(282)

Two months after submitting his application for a Soviet exit visa, Webster was turned down and told he could not reapply for 1 year. (283) Soviet officials visited him from Moscow, inquiring why he was unhappy and suggesting that he send for his family from the United States.(284) One year later he reapplied, and in February 1962. Webster was granted a Soviet exit visa.(285)

In March 1962, the American Embassy gave Webster instructions on how to obtain an American entrance visa.(286) His father sent him a plane ticket for his passage home, and Webster quit his job (287) It was May before Webster actually surrender his internal Soviet passport for his exit visa. (288) Webster arrived in the United States as an alien under the Russian quota on May 20, 1962. (289) He had never intended to aid his girlfriend in leaving the Soviet Union. (290)

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo4/j...tor.htm#WEBSTER

Below for comparisons..

B

Edited by Bernice Moore
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank's James and Bernice for the information provided. Unfortunately, I was not able to locate a photo of Fritz Dieter Jaegar, heck James, I can't believe there is anyone you don't have a photo of, just kidding.

Yes, it appears to be a safe bet that if Fritz was on the up and up, it would almost have to be Webster, one would think, he was referencing. At the time I posted the info on Jaegar's encounter in Leningrad, or do they still call it that, I was attempting to generate some interaction with Forum members to share info regarding the various Oswald impersonator's or perhaps I should phrase, it "persons mistaken for Oswald." Ironically, I find Jack White's posting on this thread to be one of the most interesting, but......

One of the most interesting elements of the whole Russian adventure of false defector's, and Lee Oswald concerns the circumstances of the "elderly American" whose name comes up in relation to Oswald at Botkin Hospital

My own particular "favorite" source of information about this period in Oswald's life is Peter Vronsky. See the actual Russian document concerning this event

it is the second URL below

http://www.russianbooks.org/oswald/moscow3.htm

http://www.russianbooks.org/oswald/doc1.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
Here is another image of Robert Webster.

Thanks to the very classy Mark Bridger for this one.

James

It is my view that there is still a lot regarding Oswald's sojourn to the Soviet Union still unrevealed, and Webster is a big part of that......At any rate.

On May 15th, 1975 David Belin conducted an interview of a Mr. Will Wilson, of Austin Texas. Wilson served as the Ass't Attorney General in the Dept. of Justice from his confirmation in February 1969, until his resignation in October of 1971. This interview was held as part of the Commission on CIA Activities within the United States, towards the end of the interview, there was this exchange.

Belin:..............Why don't you talk about the man who resigned from the State Department.

Wilson: While I was there.....

Belin: By "there," you mean the Attorney General's Office.

Wilson: Yes. While I was in the Attorney General's Office, there came across my desk a memorandum, I don't remember who it was from, or who it was to, except it was a memorandum by some employee of the State Department who was assigned to Mexico City, to the Embassy there. He was ---- finished his tenure there and was resigning and he made a rather ----- memorandum rather angry in tone, in which he stated that as he resigned as his last act he wanted to put this in the record, and stated that, as near as I can remember, I may not have the facts anywhere close to the way they actually are in the memorandum now, but my recollection is that he stated that he had been at a cocktail party in Mexico City at which Oswald had come as a guest, and that Oswald was in the company of two known agents of Castro, that they came together and left together, and that he had attempted to get that information to the Warren Commission, but that he felt like it had been suppressed by his superiors.

Belin: Did he say where the cocktail party took place?

Wilson: It was in Mexico City.

Belin: Did he know who was the host, who had invited Oswald, supposedly?

Wilson: It seemed to me that that was in there, where it was and all the details of it. But I don't remember it that well now.

Belin: Do you remember approximately when it occurred?

Wilson: Well it was some time before the Kennedy assassination, and beyond that I don't, don't remember the content of the memorandum.

Belin: Do you have any recollection at all as to what the first name was or the second name of the person who signed the memorandum?

Wilson: Not at all.

Belin: Any other facts that you think might be relevant to this matter?

Wilson: No, I don't have any other facts on that, other than that one memorandum, and I remember that I initialed the memorandum, and it's probably filed somewhere in the files of the Criminal Division.

Belin: Did you discuss that file with anyone else?

Wilson: I probably did, I discussed many things with Henry Peterson. He and I worked very closely together. And I may have discussed it with Mr. Mitchell, I don't remember now.

END

To think, that Lee Harvey Oswald, supposedly planning to assassinate JFK, would go beforehand to the American Embassy with a couple of Cuban intelligence agents......is stupefying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point of this new thread is a succinct analysis of the known individuals who:

1. Are believed or, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest said individual was impersonating Lee Harvey Oswald, prior to 11/22/63.

2. Bore a resemblance to Oswald, with a loose interpretation of the word resemblance.

There are several obvious names which come to mind.

1. John Thomas Masen

2. Robert Alan Surrey

2. Thomas Eli Davis III

3. Daniel Carswell

4. Charles Rogers

5. Larry Crafard

6. Gordon Novel

7. William Seymour

To start the ball rolling, I am providing a segment from Warren Comm. CE 2787.....

[link below]

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=212

.....which begins rather matter of factly, by stating that Oswald was residing at the Hotel Del Comercio from Sept 27-Oct 1, 1963..... then, there are four underlined names mentioned --- one of the names is of ERNESTO LIMA JUAREZ, who, had advised previously that he "believed he had seen OSWALD conversing with two Cuban-Negroes who were residing at the Hotel Del Comercio. LIMA JUAREZ had previously stated that he had seen four Cuban's during the period he had resided there......"

Later in the document, it mentions "A photograph of ANTONIO OLIVA was shown to LIMA JUAREZ, and LIMA JUAREZ immediately identified the photograph as being a photograph of the 'Cuban Negro' who lived in a room on the roof of the Hotel del Comercio with a Mexican girl.".....The Report continues....."JUAREZ stated that shortly after his arrival at the Hotel del Comercio in mid-September he saw OLIVA and another Cuban Negro standing at the entrance of the Hotel del Comercio, conversing with a person believed by LIMA JUAREZ to be an American.

LIMA JUAREZ recalled this American as being a young white male, about five-foot eight inches tall, with a dark complexion and definite Latin characteristics. LIMA JUAREZ specifically noted that this individual had curly black hair, with a marked widow's peak and a noticeably high forehead."

While the portion of the document referenced regarding Lima Juarez, and the American he is describing as talking to the two Cuban's, is obviously not Lee Harvey Oswald, [unless his description is totally inaccurate]

I included it because it documents activity at the Hotel del Comercio, before the arrival of Lee H. Oswald

describing an American other than Oswald, and also because I thought the description of the individual might ring a bell to any Forum members with a large photographic collection, or anyone else for that matter.

Mark Bridger is an excellent source on the various other Oswald's his articles can be found in the Dealey Plaza Echo.

Robert

Your topic ignores the most relevant question...WHICH OSWALD, Lee or Harvey?

But to go along with your topic, you leave off the list THE MOST OBVIOUS PERSON

who was almost identical to Lee...ROBERT LEE OSWALD. Since many researchers

consider that both Lee and Robert were in intelligence work, Robert could have been

used to impersonate Harvey.

Jack

I forget exactly which photo Pic was referring to, but, when asked if it was LHO, Pic responded that it

looked like Robert. Anyone remember which photo was being discussed?

I looked through my Oswald stuff and found this..which I believe is the photo that Pic said was Robert.

This is Commission Exhibit 287.(WCR Vol. 16 pg 807) which was shown to Pic. He stated that he recognized neither of them. He told Jenner "The lower one appears to me to look like Robert rather than Lee." (WCR Vol.11 pg 65)

WH_Vol16_0416a.jpg

Continuing, he said "The upper one, unless they tell me that, I would never guess that that would be Lee, sir."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

The point of this new thread is a succinct analysis of the known individuals who:

1. Are believed or, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest said individual was impersonating Lee Harvey Oswald, prior to 11/22/63.

2. Bore a resemblance to Oswald, with a loose interpretation of the word resemblance.

There are several obvious names which come to mind.

1. John Thomas Masen

2. Robert Alan Surrey

2. Thomas Eli Davis III

3. Daniel Carswell

4. Charles Rogers

5. Larry Crafard

6. Gordon Novel

7. William Seymour

To start the ball rolling, I am providing a segment from Warren Comm. CE 2787.....

[link below]

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=212

.....which begins rather matter of factly, by stating that Oswald was residing at the Hotel Del Comercio from Sept 27-Oct 1, 1963..... then, there are four underlined names mentioned --- one of the names is of ERNESTO LIMA JUAREZ, who, had advised previously that he "believed he had seen OSWALD conversing with two Cuban-Negroes who were residing at the Hotel Del Comercio. LIMA JUAREZ had previously stated that he had seen four Cuban's during the period he had resided there......"

Later in the document, it mentions "A photograph of ANTONIO OLIVA was shown to LIMA JUAREZ, and LIMA JUAREZ immediately identified the photograph as being a photograph of the 'Cuban Negro' who lived in a room on the roof of the Hotel del Comercio with a Mexican girl.".....The Report continues....."JUAREZ stated that shortly after his arrival at the Hotel del Comercio in mid-September he saw OLIVA and another Cuban Negro standing at the entrance of the Hotel del Comercio, conversing with a person believed by LIMA JUAREZ to be an American.

LIMA JUAREZ recalled this American as being a young white male, about five-foot eight inches tall, with a dark complexion and definite Latin characteristics. LIMA JUAREZ specifically noted that this individual had curly black hair, with a marked widow's peak and a noticeably high forehead."

While the portion of the document referenced regarding Lima Juarez, and the American he is describing as talking to the two Cuban's, is obviously not Lee Harvey Oswald, [unless his description is totally inaccurate]

I included it because it documents activity at the Hotel del Comercio, before the arrival of Lee H. Oswald

describing an American other than Oswald, and also because I thought the description of the individual might ring a bell to any Forum members with a large photographic collection, or anyone else for that matter.

Mark Bridger is an excellent source on the various other Oswald's his articles can be found in the Dealey Plaza Echo.

Robert

Your topic ignores the most relevant question...WHICH OSWALD, Lee or Harvey?

But to go along with your topic, you leave off the list THE MOST OBVIOUS PERSON

who was almost identical to Lee...ROBERT LEE OSWALD. Since many researchers

consider that both Lee and Robert were in intelligence work, Robert could have been

used to impersonate Harvey.

Jack

I forget exactly which photo Pic was referring to, but, when asked if it was LHO, Pic responded that it

looked like Robert. Anyone remember which photo was being discussed?

I looked through my Oswald stuff and found this..which I believe is the photo that Pic said was Robert.

This is Commission Exhibit 287.(WCR Vol. 16 pg 807) which was shown to Pic. He stated that he recognized neither of them. He told Jenner "The lower one appears to me to look like Robert rather than Lee." (WCR Vol.11 pg 65)

WH_Vol16_0416a.jpg

Continuing, he said "The upper one, unless they tell me that, I would never guess that that would be Lee, sir."

As time goes by, I have my doubts that the real truth will magically become apparent with the release of all remaining de-classified documents in 2017, an opinion which, is shared by many skeptics. Having said that I do believe enough pieces will prove to exist to establish a very good idea of how it all happened......

In the meantime, I wanted to provide something which has to be among the most obscure of all the "other Oswald" reports.

In Penn Jones piece entitled The Kennedy Assassination - Slaughter of the Witnesses.

After describing the 'apparent suicide' of Albert Bogard, Jones goes on to write:

.......In addition to the "Lee Oswald" who came to the Lincoln Mercury agency, we have learned that a man calling himself "Lee Oswald" sought employment as a sandblaster at Dal-Land Memorials, 116 West Commerce, a company which sells tombstones and does commercial sandblasting.

"Lee Oswald" went to the marble works every day for four or five days, and even went out on jobs with the Dal-Land employees while seeking work there. He left a jack, a cap, and a pair of shoes at the firm, all of which was picked up a few months after the assassination by a man who said he was taking a city census and who asked for the old clothes as a souvenir. We find no city census taken in Dallas since 1960.

This marble works "Lee Oswald" was a chain smoker, and as he sat around watching the men working he bragged that he had recently driven a Green 1956 pickup truck from California to Texas. He added that the pickup was undergoing major overhaul at the time. Many witnesses especially of the Dallas-Russian community have established that the real Lee Oswald neither smoked nor drove a car. [author's italics]

END

It is also true that a Green pickup was seen by Julia Ann Mercer before the assassination of JFK at Dealey Plaza.

In the wasteland of our managed media it ultimately doesent matter if the hacks from Schiller in the 1960's to Posner in our day, continue their denigrating verbal attack on the seekers of the truth, because their is only one truth. That truth has been emerging in bits and pieces for decades now, in the end it may be too little too late.

President Carter was the first President to try to truly repair this country after the scandal of Watergate and its accompanying revelations of COINTELPRO, Castro-assassination plots, MKULTRA ad naseum......

What he recieved for his efforts was a concerted effort to ruin his administration, which ultimately succeeded by virtue of the fact that the Hostage Rescue Mission "failed" in the desert near Iran, while a secret deal allowed the hostages to be released on the day that Ronald Wilson Reagan became President. If the right-wing politicians and intelligence agencies placed the good of the country, above making every effort to ruin the Adminstration of every Democrat that has been President since JFK, America would not be in the situation she finds herself today.

Now America is facing financial ruin in a war that never should have taken place, Interestingly, Osama bin Laden's stated goal is to bring about the financial destruction of America, so who is really winning? The rich and the mega-rich who even make money off the soaring prices of gas, by owning large amounts of stock in blue chip oil stocks, such as Exxon, British Petroleum, Chevron et cetera. It really can take money to make money

Capitalism works best in a culture which has a minimum of corruption in high places, in a culture where corruption is rampant, Capitalism can become a failed economic system that eventually withers and dies..........Soon gas prices may reach such

crisis levels that many working and blue-collar families will no longer be able to afford it, and if that happens, the age of America will have truly come to an end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...