Frame from Weigman film

[Guest Mark Valenti]

I thought it was interesting that of these people, standing directly in front of the TSBD at the time of the shots being fired, not one of them is looking behind them and up. There's a young man on the left who has turned to briefly face the doorway - but none of the others has reacted. I would think that if a rifle had been fired from directly overhead, someone would have looked to see what it was.

[Lee Forman]

I thought it was interesting that of these people, standing directly in front of the TSBD at the time of the shots being fired, not one of them is looking behind them and up. There's a young man on the left who has turned to briefly face the doorway - but none of the others has reacted. I would think that if a rifle had been fired from directly overhead, someone would have looked to see what it was.

Hi Mark.

How would you explain the Altgens?

- lee

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Hi Mark.

How would you explain the Altgens?

- lee

Hi Lee,

In your cropped version of the Altgens photo the SS agents are definitely looking behind them.

In the larger photo, out of approximately fifty people, only four or five are looking toward the TSBD, and we can't tell if they're looking up or down.

[Lee Forman]

Not to mince matters Mark - I count higher than 5 [something like 11] - and it appears to me that they are all looking in the direction of the doorway of the TSBD or at the DalTex. I don't see anyone looking up at all.

Edited November 16, 2006 by Lee Forman

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Not to mince matters Mark - I count higher than 5 [something like 11] - and it appears to me that they are all looking in the direction of the doorway of the TSBD or at the DalTex. I don't see anyone looking up at all.

We mince. That's our job.

It's just striking to me that those standing in front of the TSBD aren't looking up. There's also a decided lack of reaction from the people across the street in the Elsie Dorman film (taken from the 4th floor of the TSBD). I tried to nab a clear frame from it but my copy of the film is too dark.

[Robin Unger]

Not to mince matters Mark - I count higher than 5 [something like 11] - and it appears to me that they are all looking in the direction of the doorway of the TSBD or at the DalTex. I don't see anyone looking up at all.

We mince. That's our job.

It's just striking to me that those standing in front of the TSBD aren't looking up. There's also a decided lack of reaction from the people across the street in the Elsie Dorman film (taken from the 4th floor of the TSBD). I tried to nab a clear frame from it but my copy of the film is too dark.

Mark/Lee

I agree, i also do NOT see anyone looking up in any of the assassination images.

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Mark/Lee

I agree, i also do NOT see anyone looking up in any of the assassination images.

Maybe it was the sound of the motorcycles masking the percussive shock, maybe the crowd was loud. But if you're outside and you hear thunder, you generally will look up, right? It's human nature to at least cast a glance in the direction of a loud noise, if for no other reason than unconscious self-preservation.

Edited November 16, 2006 by Mark Valenti

[Shanet Clark]

[quote name='Mark Valenti' date

Mark, Lee and Robin

Good evidentiary thread..........this photo is early in the ambush, about the time

JFK was hit in the throat, but well before the fatal shot (shots).

Perhaps the Secret Service Agent in ALTGENS is looking back at

RIP ROBERTSON and LEE HARVEY OSWALD standing around at the slow curve...........

[Pat Speer]

Mark/Lee

I agree, i also do NOT see anyone looking up in any of the assassination images.

Maybe it was the sound of the motorcycles masking the percussive shock, maybe the crowd was loud. But if you're outside and you hear thunder, you generally will look up, right? It's human nature to at least cast a glance in the direction of a loud noise, if for no other reason than unconscious self-preservation.

Mark, when they did the acoustic tests in 1978, they also hired blindfolded earwitnesses to listen to the shots. The report on the earwitnesses stated that rifle fire from the sniper's nest was immediately identifiable to those on the street below. The author of this report, apparently aware that less than half of those in front of the TSBD thought shots came from the building, went on to suggest that perhaps the rifle was fired from within the building. As Brennan, Euins, etc all said the rifle was sticking out the window, this makes no sense. As most witnesses said the first shot sounded different than the others, like a firecracker, I believe it makes much more sense to conclude this first shot was undercharged, or a misfire. As the last two shots rang out almost simultaneously, I believe it also makes sense that the second shot (heard by most; there may have been additional silenced shots) was fired from the TSBD, followed immediately by a third shot (or, at least, a loud noise) from the railroad yards. This would explain why so many on the knoll thought shots came from behind them, and why so many in front of the TSBD thought shots came from west of the building.

[Shanet Clark]

The much discussed gripping of the throat wound by the President, as seen in Zapruder

is here displayed thru the windshield of ALTGENS.

JFK is probably being shot in the back at this time.

As far as the participant witnesses responding to the shots:

The Dal Tex building and the FIRE ESCAPE were probably the source of these middle shots;

i.e., low and directly to the rear of the limousine, not up and to the right in the hardwood canopy.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Shanet Clark

[Robin Unger]

Not to mince matters Mark - I count higher than 5 [something like 11] - and it appears to me that they are all looking in the direction of the doorway of the TSBD or at the DalTex. I don't see anyone looking up at all.

We mince. That's our job.

It's just striking to me that those standing in front of the TSBD aren't looking up. There's also a decided lack of reaction from the people across the street in the Elsie Dorman film (taken from the 4th floor of the TSBD). I tried to nab a clear frame from it but my copy of the film is too dark.

A frame from the Dorman film showing a woman in a BLUE dress running just in front of Rosemary Willis.

She has a camera in her hand, this was confirmed by Garry Mack.

[Lee Forman]

Not to mince matters Mark - I count higher than 5 [something like 11] - and it appears to me that they are all looking in the direction of the doorway of the TSBD or at the DalTex. I don't see anyone looking up at all.

We mince. That's our job.

It's just striking to me that those standing in front of the TSBD aren't looking up. There's also a decided lack of reaction from the people across the street in the Elsie Dorman film (taken from the 4th floor of the TSBD). I tried to nab a clear frame from it but my copy of the film is too dark.

A frame from the Dorman film showing a woman in a BLUE dress running just in front of Rosemary Willis.

She has a camera in her hand, this was confirmed by Garry Mack.

I still wonder if that isn't Mrs. Phil Willis. Mr. Phil Willis had some interesting credentials.

- lee