Duane Daman Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 In the Apollo 17 photos below , it is evident that not only are the lunar buggy tire tracks missing in this photo also , but that the rear tire of the buggy has no dirt on it .... Especially on the mesh area which should have picked up the tiny jagged rocks and sticky moon dust which make up the lunar surface .. AS17-137-20979 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ulman Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Duane- No tire tracks visible because the crew had walked all around the LRV and kicled up enough dust to obscure the tracks. I don't understand why you can't see that. The tires were constructed so as not to collect dust. Again, no mystery. Why don't you understand that? In the last photo you can clearly see caked dust around the central rivits. You can see that, can't you? Look at the tire rim - can you see all the dust I see? Here is a hi-res version. Clearly, the LRV had been driven to that spot. Your photo proves it. Thanks! BTW - are those notes yours, or did you copy the photos from some other web site? If copied, could you please provide a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Duane-No tire tracks visible because the crew had walked all around the LRV and kicled up enough dust to obscure the tracks. I don't understand why you can't see that. The tires were constructed so as not to collect dust. Again, no mystery. Why don't you understand that? In the last photo you can clearly see caked dust around the central rivits. You can see that, can't you? Look at the tire rim - can you see all the dust I see? Here is a hi-res version. Clearly, the LRV had been driven to that spot. Your photo proves it. Thanks! BTW - are those notes yours, or did you copy the photos from some other web site? If copied, could you please provide a link? I gave Duane permission to use any of my studies in any way he wishes in any of his postings. I thought you were familiar with my studies on Aulis at http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html I do not mind that he did not credit me. I thought all were familiar with my studies, since they are the favorite targets of Apollogists. Check them out. You might learn something. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Missing tyre tracks - bootprints and kicked up dust, as discussed on other photos. You can either accept that as an explanation or not: if not, no need to go round in circles over that one again. The "no dust in the mesh" argument is more interesting (to me, anyway). I'm no expert in soil mechanics, but I would have expected to see some dirt trapped in the mesh. What I do see, is evidence of dirt on the rivetted metal treads, and also the hub of the wheel. So either that tyre has been used on a dusty surface, or someone went to a lot of trouble getting the treads dirty, but cleaning the mesh. Which brings me to another point. We all know the lunar rover worked - we've all seen plenty of video of it in action. I can't for the life of me fathom out why anyone would want to fake this photo in the way that is being inferred. Firstly, get someone to clean the dust out of the mesh, but leave it on the treads. Secondly, instead of simply driving the lunar rover and parking it somewhere, the inference is that it was lowered on to the set by a crane. Thirdly, the astronauts walked around the rover, obscuring the regions where you'd otherwise expect to see tracks. This proposition makes absolutely no sense to me on any level. Even the deus ex machina explanation of "whistleblowers" makes no sense. For there to be whistleblowers involved in the faking of this photo, everyone involved in the faking of the photo would have to be a whistleblower. Kind of hard to miss a ruddy great crane on set. Even that explanation is wholly unsatisfactory - why did the astronauts then proceed to trample around the very part of the set that they'd left free of tyre tracks for the purpose of whistle-blowing? I'll revert to Occam's razor. Is it more likely that the rover was driven to the spot where the photo was taken (regardless of whether that be on the moon or on a moonset), or is it more likely it was lowered into position on a crane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 Jack ... Sorry for not giving you credit for your studies ... I was in a hurry when I posted these photos and just wasn't thinking . Well, it comes as no surprise at all that the only explanation the hoax deniers have mananged to come up with again is the same lame excuse that was offered before when no tire tracks showed up in the other buggy photos .... Do you really believe that the astronots kicked up enough dust to cover all of the tracks in all of these photos , or is that just the standard clavius and Bad Astronomy reply ? As far as the whistle clean mesh on the tires , it's pretty obvious that this tire never drove on the rocky , sticky moon soil ... If it had , the wire mesh part of the tires would have shown evidence of having tiny jagged moon rocks wedged in it ... These buggys were clearly just props on a moon set and were never driven anywhere at all ... In fact , considering the very narrow wheel base , the silly looking things would have tiped right over in 1/6 g . anyway . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Jack ... Sorry for not giving you credit for your studies ... I was in a hurry when I posted these photos and just wasn't thinking .Well, it comes as no surprise at all that the only explanation the hoax deniers have mananged to come up with again is the same lame excuse that was offered before when no tire tracks showed up in the other buggy photos .... Do you really believe that the astronots kicked up enough dust to cover all of the tracks in all of these photos , or is that just the standard clavius and Bad Astronomy reply ? As far as the whistle clean mesh on the tires , it's pretty obvious that this tire never drove on the rocky , sticky moon soil ... If it had , the wire mesh part of the tires would have shown evidence of having tiny jagged moon rocks wedged in it ... These buggys were clearly just props on a moon set and were never driven anywhere at all ... In fact , considering the very narrow wheel base , the silly looking things would have tiped right over in 1/6 g . anyway . You are correct Duane...we are not discussing DUST, we are discussing lots of tiny little pebbles which would have wedged into the wire mesh as the wheels rolled over them. Lame responses. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 You are correct Duane...we are not discussing DUST, we are discussing lots of tiny little pebbles which would have wedged into the wire mesh as the wheels rolled overthem. Lame responses. Jack Jack, I'll go out on a limb here, because I haven't checked this, but what size "pebbles" would have been required to have wedged into the mesh? Once you have that size, can you give some evidence that such sized "pebbles" existed on the surface of the Moon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Jack ... Sorry for not giving you credit for your studies ... I was in a hurry when I posted these photos and just wasn't thinking .Well, it comes as no surprise at all that the only explanation the hoax deniers have mananged to come up with again is the same lame excuse that was offered before when no tire tracks showed up in the other buggy photos .... Do you really believe that the astronots kicked up enough dust to cover all of the tracks in all of these photos , or is that just the standard clavius and Bad Astronomy reply ? As far as the whistle clean mesh on the tires , it's pretty obvious that this tire never drove on the rocky , sticky moon soil ... If it had , the wire mesh part of the tires would have shown evidence of having tiny jagged moon rocks wedged in it ... These buggys were clearly just props on a moon set and were never driven anywhere at all ... In fact , considering the very narrow wheel base , the silly looking things would have tiped right over in 1/6 g . anyway . You are correct Duane...we are not discussing DUST, we are discussing lots of tiny little pebbles which would have wedged into the wire mesh as the wheels rolled over them. Lame responses. Jack Actually you WERE talking about dust in your "study". To quote you, : ...no pebbles or DUST caught by the many.... Very lame Jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 I have just looked at the other photos of the Apollo 17 lunar buggy on the 'moon' ... and the wire mesh is filled with all kinds of dirt and and what looks like tiny pebbles ... So I guess the buggy was at least rolled around on the set for some of the other photos. If the hoax deniers here would like me to post these other photos here , I will be happy to .... Then we can compare them to the photo where Jack outted nasa once again ! The moon buggy tire in the photo posted above could not have possibly have driven through the dust , dirt , and jagged little rocks , which make up the lunar surface ....It was most likely only a prop lowered onto the moon set , the same way the LM's showing no blast craters, no dirt on the foot pads, and no dust disturbed by their landings, were lowered into place for the various Apollo photo shoots . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I have just looked at the other photos of the Apollo 17 lunar buggy on the 'moon' ... and the wire mesh is filled with all kinds of dirt and and what looks like tiny pebbles ... So I guess the buggy was at least rolled around on the set for some of the other photos.If the hoax deniers here would like me to post these other photos here , I will be happy to .... Then we can compare them to the photo where Jack outted nasa once again ! The moon buggy tire in the photo posted above could not have possibly have driven through the dust , dirt , and jagged little rocks , which make up the lunar surface ....It was most likely only a prop lowered onto the moon set , the same way the LM's showing no blast craters, no dirt on the foot pads, and no dust disturbed by their landings, were lowered into place for the various Apollo photo shoots . Do you know what was happening just before this photo was taken? Does the patched fender ring any bells? DO you wonder if the repair process just might have jarred the wheel enough to dislodge the material? That working all around the wheel just might have moved enough soil to obscure all the tracks? Context Duane...context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 (edited) Yes , I know exactly what was claimed as taking place with the broken fender and took this into consideration when studying this whistle clean tire . But replacing the fender would have not dislodged every single bit of dirt and tiny rocks from the entire wire mesh part of the tire... That is unless the astronots also scrubbed it down with their toothbrushes while rigging the new fender ! And I doubt if cleaning the entire mesh part of the tire with their toothbrushes is in the ALSJ . Edited February 15, 2007 by Duane Daman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Yes , I know exactly what was claimed as taking place with the broken fender and took this into consideration when studying this whistle clean tire .But replacing the fender would have not dislodged every single bit of dirt and tiny rocks from the entire wire mesh part of the tire... That is unless the astronots also scrubbed it down with their toothbrushes while rigging the new fender ! And I doubt if cleaning the entire mesh part of the tire with their toothbrushes is in the ALSJ . But the "ENTIRE" mesh is not clean. Look again as you are so fond of saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Okay , I looked again ... and it is still ...WHISTLE CLEAN ! This photo must have been taken before they rolled the buggy around on the moon set and got it all dirty . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen Turner Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 In the Apollo 17 photos below , it is evident that not only are the lunar buggy tire tracks missing in this photo also , but that the rear tire of the buggy has no dirt on it .... Especially on the mesh area which should have picked up the tiny jagged rocks and sticky moon dust which make up the lunar surface ..AS17-137-20979 Actually Duane, I believe if you look really carefully at the wheel in the photo, you can just make out a rudimentory track mark before it is obscured by bootprints. Also the dust appears to be "ridged" around the side, and quite possibly, the front edge of the tyre, unlikely to have happened if the buggy had been lowered into place. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 (edited) Sorry Steve but I don't see any evidence of tire tracks at all ... and it's pretty obvious from the texture of the rocky dirt in this photo , that no one "kicked dust over the tracks" or obscured them with their bootprints either . As for the dirt on side of the tire rim , I do see that ... but then the moon set was a very dirty place and dirt got on everything . But if this tire had just come back from an EVA there would be evidence on and in the wire mesh part of the tire ... Yet is is obvious that this tire is too clean to have just finished up an EVA ... Even with the fender repair , there would be dirt and rocks wedged up in the mesh , as in some of the other photos of this same buggy .... but it simply isn't there.... Speaking of props being lowered into place .... I do believe that Jack even posted a photo study , showing how a boom truck was blacked out in the background , by nasa's photo editors ... Which shows that lowering props onto a moon set was quite possible ... Especially if there is no evidence that these props ever arrived on the set by driving or landing on their under own power . Edited February 15, 2007 by Duane Daman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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