Mary Bledsoe

[Greg Parker]

... It was at the Green Glass where I heard the story of one of Jack Ruby's girls who used to hang there too, I think it was Penny Dollar, though I might have that name wrong. She was a dancer who married a Dallas policeman. Her husband, the cop, said he went out to get some ice cream and returned to find her dead from ingesting some industrial cleaner like drano, a story that I found to be too bizarre to have been made up, though I never checked it out any further. ...

I just tripped across this name - Penny Dollar - in the past few days. There was a Commission Document I'd referred to in the "Bus 1213" thread (near what is now the end), and I'm thinking that's where I'd tripped across this interview, as I recall it was.

If my memory serves me on the details, what struck me about this deal is that the woman who was being interviewed said that her daughter went to work as a stripper at one of Ruby's clubs. There was some story about that which I don't recall, but the interesting thing was that this woman said that she, too worked as a stripper for Ruby: mom and daughter in the same line of work for the same guy (but apparently not as a team). Wow.

Ah, here we go: CD86, pp289-91 regarding Mrs. FANNIE BIRCH. Penny Dollar was her daughter Patricia, who was by then married as Patricia Kohs. Fannie (mom) performed only on Friday nights for about two months in 1960 as FRANCINE.

In this report, Fannie tells the interviewing agents that she had "noticed a group of about six or seven men seated at a table and she also noticed these men to have a tattoo design of what she took to be a dagger, located between their thumbs and forefinger" which she took to be a "pachuco mark."

She also told the agents that she believed herself to be a psychic, that she "wasn't surprised" by JFK's assassination or Oswald's murder, and that she was also "undergoing treatment for a nervous condition" under the care of a doctor named in the report (and probably contacted the next day by the agents!), and that she's "required to remain very quiet and does not normally leave her husband except to visit the doctor and an occasional trip to the store."

Ah, the connection and why I was looking at this: the only active-duty police officer she said she knew by name was one Billy Swafford, whom someone else connected (in the "JD Tippit: Was he part of the conspiracy?" thread) to the "estate" guarded by Harry Olsen on 11/22/63 (a tenuous and probably incorrect connection, btw).

Yea, that's an interesting doc Duke.

That sounds like the person I was told about at the Green Glass, which was owned by a mother-daughter team too.

That seems to be an honest, insider account of working for Ruby.

Except its hard to imagine Ruby going to a party and sitting down to read a book.

And I agree with you about the Bledsoe police report.

Greg wants to know why bother with something that's fake?

Well, for starters, its a crime to create a false police report, and Perry and those who have investigated it say it was created by three Dallas cops.

Who were they and what were their motives? To embarrase researchers? I don't think so.

It's a very sophisticated and intentional deception that I think is important.

And even if the statute of limitations is over for such a crime, those suspected of creating it can be required to testify under oath and if they lie,

they comit perjury and that's a crime too.

BK

Bill, one motive may be divined by the fact that they used the "Rubinstein" instead of Jack's legal name of "Ruby". It seems to me that any document written about Ruby after he legally changed his name which refers to him as "Rubinstein" is one in which the author is attempting to emphasize his "Jewishness" (if I can put it that way). In this case, it is also another clue (apart from those previously noted), that the document is fake. I think using that name also disqualifies it as being sophisticated (no matter that it may have been in other ways). Legal documents require legal names and the vast majority of cops in Dallas knew Jack's legal name was Ruby.

When I said it was a waste of time; I meant in terms of discussing it as somehow part of the puzzle that would help solve the conspiracy behind the assassination. Anyone who actually thinks it's the real thing and is here to push it in those terms should be sent to Gitmo. Or better still; Canberra.

Pursuing it as an offshoot (and separate) criminal matter is a different kettle of fish and is a worthy pursuit - my gut instinct is that whatever else those behind it may have been, they were anti-Semites - and though you have doubts, the main intent was to embarrass researchers - especially those prone to believe anything that comes down the pike so long as it plays to their own biases. The thing is, an embarrassing mistake like being taken in by a fake document is not just a black eye for the idiot who was taken in - the resultant adverse publicity is a black eye to the whole community because we all get tainted by the same brush.

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

Bill, one motive may be divined by the fact that they used the "Rubinstein" instead of Jack's legal name of "Ruby". It seems to me that any document written about Ruby after he legally changed his name which refers to him as "Rubinstein" is one in which the author is attempting to emphasize his "Jewishness" (if I can put it that way). In this case, it is also another clue (apart from those previously noted), that the document is fake. I think using that name also disqualifies it as being sophisticated (no matter that it may have been in other ways). Legal documents require legal names and the vast majority of cops in Dallas knew Jack's legal name was Ruby.

And yet IIRC when the identity of Oswald’s killer was first announced by Jesse Curry, he said words to the effect of “the shooter’s name is Jack Rubenstein,” using Sparky’s old full name.

When I said it was a waste of time; I meant in terms of discussing it as somehow part of the puzzle that would help solve the conspiracy behind the assassination. Anyone who actually thinks it's the real thing and is here to push it in those terms should be sent to Gitmo. Or better still; Canberra.

Pursuing it as an offshoot (and separate) criminal matter is a different kettle of fish and is a worthy pursuit - my gut instinct is that whatever else those behind it may have been, they were anti-Semites - and though you have doubts, the main intent was to embarrass researchers - especially those prone to believe anything that comes down the pike so long as it plays to their own biases. The thing is, an embarrassing mistake like being taken in by a fake document is not just a black eye for the idiot who was taken in - the resultant adverse publicity is a black eye to the whole community because we all get tainted by the same brush.

We should also remember that to a particular right-wing mind set of that era, Jew = Communist. It played to a Bircher worldview in such a way that Oswald’s murder was just one Communist killing another. The use of “Rubenstein” in the Bledsoe document may have been intended as a dog whistle to those who knew the code: “Commie.” If so, it may have also been part of a larger plot to implicate Ruby as a Communist, as there are other documents indicating he's sold Hungarian weapons in Havana, or been a Commie formenter in the midwest, etc.

[Greg Parker]

And yet IIRC when the identity of Oswald's killer was first announced by Jesse Curry, he said words to the effect of "the shooter's name is Jack Rubenstein," using Sparky's old full name.

Which (if you do remember correctly) indicates that cops may indeed have been involved in the manufacture of this document. But what you won't find is any official report relating to the murder of Oswald giving his legal name as "Jack Rubinstein".

We should also remember that to a particular right-wing mind set of that era, Jew = Communist. It played to a Bircher worldview in such a way that Oswald's murder was just one Communist killing another. The use of "Rubenstein" in the Bledsoe document may have been intended as a dog whistle to those who knew the code: "Commie." If so, it may have also been part of a larger plot to implicate Ruby as a Communist, as there are other documents indicating he's sold Hungarian weapons in Havana, or been a Commie formenter in the midwest, etc.

Don't recall the Hungarian weapons thing, but the Midwest "Rubinstein" may have been the NYC union leader of the same name. Was he really "formenting", or has that been a long-held assumption based on the belief the person involved was Ruby? Are there possibly innocent explanations for the Midwest actions absent any assumption it's Ruby? I honestly can't recall all the details off the top....

Otherwise.... I agree 100% that the "dog whistle" theory is a distinct possibility.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Greg Parker

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

And yet IIRC when the identity of Oswald's killer was first announced by Jesse Curry, he said words to the effect of "the shooter's name is Jack Rubenstein," using Sparky's old full name.

Which (if you do remember correctly) indicates that cops may indeed have been involved in the manufacture of this document. But what you won't find is any official report relating to the murder of Oswald giving his legal name as "Jack Rubinstein".

We should also remember that to a particular right-wing mind set of that era, Jew = Communist. It played to a Bircher worldview in such a way that Oswald's murder was just one Communist killing another. The use of "Rubenstein" in the Bledsoe document may have been intended as a dog whistle to those who knew the code: "Commie." If so, it may have also been part of a larger plot to implicate Ruby as a Communist, as there are other documents indicating he's sold Hungarian weapons in Havana, or been a Commie formenter in the midwest, etc.

Don't recall the Hungarian weapons thing, but the Midwest "Rubinstein" may have been the NYC union leader of the same name. Was he really "formenting", or has that been a long-held assumption based on the belief the person involved was Ruby? Are there possibly innocent explanations for the Midwest actions absent any assumption it's Ruby? I honestly can't recall all the details off the top....

Otherwise.... I agree 100% that the "dog whistle" theory is a distinct possibility.

"Formenter?" Sheesh. Note to self: proof read first and then hit 'add reply.'

As for the veracity of reports that Ruby was a commie, I shrugged off most of them as the result of mistaken identity, perhaps from people who knew the NYC guy of the same name. The Havana report, which I believe had him selling Hungarian weapons there in person, is a different matter. [However, I'm also going from memory here, and since I cannot even remember how to spell "fomenter," I'm clearly not to be trusted.]

[Guest Tom Scully]

From the "Replying To Dallas Cubans" thread.:

Robert,

I wish I could do more. Maybe you can answer this question? Why do you suppose the FBI stressed so vehemently that witness Jess Lynch was unreliable because his fingerprint record contradicted two minor records of arrest, many years before, in his youth....

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11663&relPageId=6

Jess Lynch fingerprint/arrest record and second FBI interview memo 16 July 1964

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=62367&relPageId=174

Lynch denied prior arrests but FBI believes fingerprint records disprove this.

....yet that same FBI canonized this ...this....woman, as some sort of a St. Mary? Do you suppose the G-men located James Eulys Bledsoe, especially given the importance of his former spouse's "testimony," but decided to conceal even his name, based on the bureau's own strict standard of determining who was reliable, at least when it suited Mr. Hoover and the WC's Mr. Rankin?

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=alexander1&id=I9285

James Eulys BLEDSOE

Surname: Bledsoe

Given Name: James Eulys

Sex: M

Birth: 23 Sep 1891 in Petersburg, Lincoln Co., TN

Death: 20 Feb 1993 in El Paso, TX

_UID: B0B2DAF2EC0FD511B568BD47275DDA4EDC4A

Note: He was slim, 5'll" tall, and elegant with auburn hair and green eyes. He moved from TN with his family to TX around 1910. He divorced his first wife because while he travelled in his job for Southern Pacific Railroad, she played around and got pregnant. He gave the child his name, but the marriage was over. Died of a stroke.

Link to James E. Bledsoe's findagrave.com page:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Bledsoe&GSiman=1&GScnty=2590&GRid=5616547&

Link to findagrave.com page of Bledsoe's second wife, Neta L. Thomason :

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=5616549

(Is it only coincidental that the above linked genealogical record was part of a branch of the Sorrells' family record, and that both James E. Bledsoe and Forrest Sorrells resided in El Paso?)

http://vitals.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ca/death/search.cgi

BLEDSOE JAMES ELYUS 08/28/1914 mother maiden:GERMANY M Birth Place:TEXAS Death Place:BUTTE Death Date:05/05/1981

Dallas Morning News, The : BLEDSOE, PORTER LEEknown to most...

‎

$2.95 - Dallas Morning News - May 12, 2005

He is survived by nephews James Ronald Bledsoe of California and Randolph John Bledsoe of Nevada, and hundreds of good friends who were his family.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/contracostatimes/obituary.aspx?n=brett-bledsoe&pid=146101340

Walnut Creek - Obituary : Brett Bledsoe | | Obituaries

www.zirana.com/walnutcreek/.../obituary_brett_bledsoe_%7C.html

Oct 13, 2010 – Brett is survived by his father, James Ronald Bledsoe, stepmother, Pam Bledsoe, brother, James Bledsoe and many loving relatives and friends ....

Robert,

I wish I could do more. Maybe you can answer this question? Why do you suppose the FBI stressed so vehemently that witness Jess Lynch was unreliable because his fingerprint record contradicted two minor records of arrest, many years before, in his youth....

http://www.maryferre...663&relPageId=6

Jess Lynch fingerprint/arrest record and second FBI interview memo 16 July 1964

http://www.maryferre...7&relPageId=174

Lynch denied prior arrests but FBI believes fingerprint records disprove this.

....yet that same FBI canonized this ...this....woman, as some sort of a St. Mary? Do you suppose the G-men located James Eulys Bledsoe, especially given the importance of his former spouse's "testimony," but decided to conceal even his name, based on the bureau's own strict standard of determining who was reliable, at least when it suited Mr. Hoover and the WC's Mr. Rankin?

Tom, I think you answered your own question.....

but decided to conceal even his name, based on the bureau's own strict standard of determining who was reliable, at least when it suited Mr. Hoover and the WC's Mr. Rankin?

Or you could say that any facts that didn't strengthen the official version of events was summarily discarded....I realize your comment may have been a rhetorical question, but I at least wanted to respond........

Thank you, I was hoping for an answer because I've learned that serious people and the news gathering/entertainement/publishing media they control almost always give the WC and the FBI the benefit of the doubt, especially when it concerns a venial sin of omission.

Is it really true that J. Eulys Bledsoe lived out his life in Texas to the ripe old age of 101, and his name remained undiscovered, even though his former wife was represented as perhaps the most pivotal WC witnesses?

The Bledsoe family also seems to have remained clueless, at least from what little I can gather.:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/TNLINCOL/2002-09/1031537269

http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/print.cgi?ca::13844.html

[Guest Tom Scully]

Pssst....Lee ! Look above this post #36, at post # 35

......

Would it be possible to try and establish Mary Bledsoe's maiden name before she married, Robert? Could she be related to a motorcycle cop in the motorcade? Long shot, but worth looking into?

It is long established that her name was Mary Esther Germany. I found the name of her ex-husband and name and present location of her grandson, son of her older son, James "Dick" Eulys Bledsoe, Jr. (1914 - 1981) and I posted it on the page of the thread you are using, on the page just before the one you just posted on. I got her others son's name from the Obit Robert has posted in the past, and checked California death records for likely individuals, and I found that Dick Bledsoe's name was a nickname.

....If a criminal trial of Oswald had actually come to pass, an investigator for the defense would have taken the trouble to locate the "unimpeachable" Mrs. Bledsoe's former spouse, (residing in the same state) as they FBI certainly could have done, or did, but did not choose to disclose that they had located him.

A facet of Oswald's defense would have been devoted to challenging the reputation, reliability, and the veracity of Mrs. Bledsoe's testimony, as well as the testimony of all other witnesses, and the defense would not have been dependent on the criteria employed by the FBI and the WC determining what testimony and evidence was or was not reliable or relevant.

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=alexander1&id=I9285

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=alexander1&id=I9344

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16919&view=findpost&p=236490

Edited October 27, 2011 by Tom Scully

[Guest Tom Scully]

Pssst....Lee ! Look above this post.

......

Would it be possible to try and establish Mary Bledsoe's maiden name before she married, Robert? Could she be related to a motorcycle cop in the motorcade? Long shot, but worth looking into?

Cheers, Tom. Mary Germany. Unusual name. I'm trying now to remember where I last found the lists of active DPD personnel. CD 2003?

Not that I have that much faith that Olsen was telling the truth regarding this...and even if the mostorcycle cop were a relative there's no guarantee they had the same name.

Hello Lee,

You posted before I edited my last post on this thread. Two things, the main point I made is the description in the genealogical record of Mary's ex-husband, accusing her of getting pregnant by another man while her husband was on railroad work assignment, and that he gave the child his name anyway, but the marriage was over. Since the marriage ended in 1925, if this is true, it is Porter who had a different father. I was hoping someone would attempt to interview the grandson, James Ronald Bledsoe. His location is in his son's 2010 Obit.

The point I made to Robert was that the FBI under Hoover would seem to have no use for a woman of such low morals as Mary exhibited in her past. Since her ex was living in Texas, possibly they buried their awareness of him to keep him from putting the reason for their divorce on the record. If the story of the reason for her divorce is true, and Oswald had actual pretrial investigation at the direction of his own attorney, James Bledsoe might have been used in Court to impeach Mary's reliability. The FBI and WC could risk none of that!

Oswald's Attorney: Mrs. Bledsoe, who is the father of your son, Porter?

Mary Bledsoe: I am a stroke victim, Mr. Sorrels did not coach me for that question, and my own memory is not all that clear.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Tom Scully

[John Dolva]

er...in the house in front of which Tippit was killed?

[John Dolva]

er...in the house in front of which Tippit was killed?

Is there any real evidence of that, John. Going from memory here but isn't that the house were Tippit was supposed to be having a bit on the side?

I've just been reading through some older threads and Duke Lane wrote that Olsen's testimony changed dramatically during his HSCA appearance. He was no longer looking after an "estate" but was instead looking after a "small, dilapidated" house.

Duke also suggests that Olsen had rented an apartment or a room from Bertha Cheek prior to the assassination.

I think it's an interesting question to pursue, Lee.

Yeah, I think one could argue such from some reported statements. It, for me, rises the issue of a cops unofficial safe house for goofing off or anything else that may otherwise be unseemly.

The dilapidated house thing is interesting. I think one can see some dilapidation in the photos of the house, though unfortunately not the writing on the little sign on the tree. One can see through to what seems an alley out back though.

Olsen is a bit of an enigma that if something could be proven many other things may make sense as well.

[John Dolva]

Agreed.