Jack Ruby's Dog

[Ron Ecker]

A couple of years ago I put an article online called "Jack Ruby’s Dog." Ruby leaving his dog Sheba in his car when he went to shoot Oswald supposedly suggests that the shooting was a spontaneous act. The question is did Ruby really leave Sheba in his car, or was the dog planted in the car later, or was the dog never in the car at all.

There was some discussion about it here, and I think it was Greg Parker who got me so confused that I took the article offline. Having gathered a few more of the facts, I have now put a new version online. I basically reach the conclusion that there’s no way to reach a conclusion. But the article at least brings the most important facts together in one place for those interested in the question.

Here’s the link, with any comments welcome (even from Greg):

http://four.fsphost.com/crevmore/rubysdog.htm

Edited May 13, 2007 by Ron Ecker

[James Richards]

A couple of years ago I put an article online called "Jack Ruby’s Dog." Ruby leaving his dog Sheba in his car when he went to shoot Oswald supposedly suggests that the shooting was a spontaneous act. The question is did Ruby really leave Sheba in his car, or was the dog planted in the car later, or was the dog never in the car at all.

There was some discussion about it here, and I think it was Greg Parker who got me so confused that I took the article offline. Having gathered a few more of the facts, I have now put a new version online. I basically reach the conclusion that there’s no way to reach a conclusion. But the article at least brings the most important facts together in one place for those interested in the question.

Here’s the link, with any comments welcome (even from Greg):

http://four.fsphost.com/crevmore/rubysdog.htm

Ron,

Good piece. Nice work.

Is this mutt below Sheba do you know?

James

Edited May 13, 2007 by James Richards

[Ron Ecker]

James,

Thanks! Yes, it looks like the dog identified as Sheba in a picture on p. 179 of Groden's The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald. I'll include it in the article.

I thought of asking you if you had a photo of Sheba, but I figured your incredible collection of pics did not extend to animals. (I thought you would probably post a picture of the Queen of Sheba.)

Can you or anyone ID the two women sitting on the table in front of Ruby? And the three women in the other photo with Ruby?

Thanks again,

Ron

[Greg Parker]

A couple of years ago I put an article online called "Jack Ruby’s Dog." Ruby leaving his dog Sheba in his car when he went to shoot Oswald supposedly suggests that the shooting was a spontaneous act. The question is did Ruby really leave Sheba in his car, or was the dog planted in the car later, or was the dog never in the car at all.

There was some discussion about it here, and I think it was Greg Parker who got me so confused that I took the article offline. Having gathered a few more of the facts, I have now put a new version online. I basically reach the conclusion that there’s no way to reach a conclusion. But the article at least brings the most important facts together in one place for those interested in the question.

Here’s the link, with any comments welcome (even from Greg):

http://four.fsphost.com/crevmore/rubysdog.htm

Gee, thanks Ron! That's what I like about you... you're always up for another round.

I think it was in "Search of Excellence" that Tom Peters wrote, if you're not confused, you're not paying attention. Looks like your confusion cleared up. You certainly seemed to have paid attention. In that original thread, I said, "Maybe, just maybe, someone slipped Sheba INTO the car." In your revised article, you have added, "It is quite possible, by the way, that someone slipped Sheba into the car after Ruby headed for the DPD."

It is a fine piece of writing. For mine though, it still hasn't plumbed all that can be plumbed. There is the testimony of John L Daniels, questions on the ticket issued by the attendant -- as well as much evidence that supports the notion that the Carlins lied through their teeth about the urgent need for money. But in the end, it's your article. You're the one who has to be happy with it. Opinions of others aren't worth a brass razoo unless they strike a chord, or hit a nerve.

[Ron Ecker]

Greg,

There you go again! Thanks for the input, which I will take in order:

In that original thread, I said, "Maybe, just maybe, someone slipped Sheba INTO the car." In your revised article, you have added, "It is quite possible, by the way, that someone slipped Sheba into the car after Ruby headed for the DPD."

Well if I got that idea from you, and apparently I did, I will add a footnote to credit you accordingly.

it still hasn't plumbed all that can be plumbed.

If there are other things in addition to the following, I'd plumb like to know what they are.

There is the testimony of John L Daniels,

Just read it. How did I miss him? Did we discuss Daniels? Anyway, he corroborates Jackson's testimony that they took the car away with the dog still in it. At first blush this would indicate that Lt. Smart lied under oath when he said they had a squad come pick the dog up and take it to the animal shelter. But Griffin gave him an out with his questioning.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was the dog when you got to the car?

Mr. SMART. The dog had crawled under a newspaper in the front seat.

Mr. GRIFFIN. And what did you do with the dog when you got in?

Mr. SMART. We had the squad come by and get it and take it to the animal shelter.

Was Smart lying? It depends on what "got in" means. It obviously reads like Griffin meant when he got in the car. But Smart could have taken it to mean what did he do when he got back to DPD (as when someone "gets in to work"), particularly if that is when he had the dog picked up. And it really doesn’t make much sense for Griffin to ask "what did you do with the dog when you got in" the car. "Did you pet it? Did you say 'good doggie' to it?”

questions on the ticket issued by the attendant

Can you elaborate?

-- as well as much evidence that supports the notion that the Carlins lied through their teeth about the urgent need for money.

I didn't go into whether or not the Carlins were lying because I don't see it as relevant. As I state in the article, Ruby did not need any phone call from Carlin as an excuse to wind up at DPD. If Ruby supposedly walked on the spur of the moment from Western Union to DPD, he could have just as well driven on the spur of the moment to DPD, parking right where he did or somewhere else, instead of driving straight to the club. Oswald's transfer was made into a much anticipated media event, and it would be understandable if Ruby drove down to see it.

But in the end, it's your article. You're the one who has to be happy with it.

I wouldn't say I'm "happy" with it at all. I debated with myself whether or not to put it online again because of its marginal value to the JFK case. I just hate to see effort go to waste.

[Ron Ecker]

Bumping, as my post didn't move up the thread.

[James Richards]

Ron,

Just an aside regarding carpark attendant, Theodore Jackson. Quite an interesting guy. A Korean War veteran who was taken prisoner in 1951. Released in an exchange in 1953. Jackson died in 1973 in a Dallas hospital. Have not been able to find out the cause.

I am still trying to figure out if John L. Daniels was the same John L. Daniels (Dallas resident) who in 1953 was a First Lt. with the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg.

And if he was the same John L. Daniels who in 1976 was busted in a Dallas motel room with a gram of heroin. The ages of the three possibles match regarding the 1953, 1963 and 1976 time line.

I think background is always important to the context of what is being said, or in some cases, what is not being said.

James

[Kathleen Collins]

Ruby and his dogs...

James Ellroy, fictonal crime writer, likes to take celebrities he remembers as a kid and make fun of them if they're dead. In American Tabloid, one of the best novels I ever read and funny as hell, he had someone look up Ruby's arrest record and found that Ruby was convicted of molesting a dog in 1957. He has the dogs crapping all over the "stage" or bar where the strippers were dancing. He has Jimmy Hoffa in a little motor boat in Florida, shooting alligators.

Kathy

[Ron Ecker]

In that original thread, I said, "Maybe, just maybe, someone slipped Sheba INTO the car." In your revised article, you have added, "It is quite possible, by the way, that someone slipped Sheba into the car after Ruby headed for the DPD."

Well if I got that idea from you, and apparently I did, I will add a footnote to credit you accordingly.

I went back and read the thread "Ruby and his dogs" in which we discussed the original article, and can't find where you said someone could have slipped Sheba into the car. Was there more than one thread?

I wrote this on 12/5/04: "It's possible that the dog was taken from Ruby's apartment and put in the car."

http://www.educationforum.ipbhost.com/inde...=126&t=2395

[Steve Thomas]

Ron,

Can you or anyone ID the two women sitting on the table in front of Ruby? And the three women in the other photo with Ruby?

Thanks again,

Ron

With respect to the first photo you ask about:

The two women sitting at the table with Ruby are, Joyce Lee McDonald (Joy Dale) on our left, and Karen, "Little Lynn" Bennet Carlin on our right.

See Armstrong Exhibit 5301-A at 19H30

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=48

and Armstrong's WC testimony at:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/armstro1.htm

scroll down to page 361

With respect to your second picture, I'm not sure, but two of them might be Alice Anderson and Diana Hunter.

See Jack Ruby's Girls here: http://gatorpress.com/stories/page30.html

They co-authored the book.

Steve Thomas

[Ron Ecker]

The two women sitting at the table with Ruby are, Joyce Lee McDonald (Joy Dale) on our left, and Karen, "Little Lynn" Bennet Carlin on our right.

Steve,

Thanks. I want to go back and caption the photo.

See Jack Ruby's Girls here: http://gatorpress.com/stories/page30.html

Well, if I knew that Rose Cheramie had worked for Ruby, I had forgotten it. Now there's a nice coincidence for you: a former employee of Ruby with foreknowledge of the assassination.

Ron

[Bernice Moore]

Ron:

The girls in this photo are.....I believe this is the one you are referring to...

On the left is Millie Perl...In the middle is Sherry Lynn Garcia, her husband Joe Garcia

was band master at the Colony Club...

On the right is Tawny Angel ( Tina Martin)..

B.....

[Ron Ecker]

Bernice,

Thanks. I now have the photos captioned.

Ron

[Greg Parker]

In that original thread, I said, "Maybe, just maybe, someone slipped Sheba INTO the car." In your revised article, you have added, "It is quite possible, by the way, that someone slipped Sheba into the car after Ruby headed for the DPD."

Well if I got that idea from you, and apparently I did, I will add a footnote to credit you accordingly.

I went back and read the thread "Ruby and his dogs" in which we discussed the original article, and can't find where you said someone could have slipped Sheba into the car. Was there more than one thread?

I wrote this on 12/5/04: "It'’s possible that the dog was taken from Ruby'’s apartment and put in the car."

http://www.educationforum.ipbhost.com/inde...=126&t=2395

Ron, it was the same thread -- post #6 made on 11/27/04. I only mentioned it to illustrate that the confusion I caused seemed to have grown into agreement (it wasn't the only thing you ended up agreeing with me about - whether you realized it or not). It's no big deal, and no need for attribution. I certainly don't think you were plagiarising.

[Ron Ecker]

Ron, it was the same thread -- post #6 made on 11/27/04.

Thanks, I see it now. I didn't reread all the posts as closely as I should have. I went skimming through the thread and missed it.

I only mentioned it to illustrate that the confusion I caused seemed to have grown into agreement (it wasn't the only thing you ended up agreeing with me about - whether you realized it or not).

I agree that we came to agree on a lot. To me the most telling aspect of the whole thing is the way Carousel employee Armstrong changed his story under oath. What was the point of lying or contradicting himself so obviously about this dog? He testified to the WC that Joy Dale picked up Sheba at the pound, then he testified emphatically to the HSCA that he remembered picking up Sheba but he wasn't sure where. Why did he do this? Was it because Joy Dale told Gary Mack that she didn't remember picking up Sheba? That was not part of any testimony, and Dale didn't say she didn't pick up Sheba, she just said she didn't remember doing so. Yet Armstrong then became certain that he picked up Sheba, and of course the HSCA didn't bother to point out that this meant he had perjured himself to the WC.

To me the most likely explanation for Armstrong's self-contradiction is that the whole thing was a lie. Lying is the usual explanation when someone can't get his story straight. And the most likely reason for lying in this case is that no one picked up Sheba anywhere, but admitting so was absolutely out of the question.