John Roselli

[Robert Howard]

Forget all the stuff before 1963.

What was Roselli doing at JMWAVE?

That is his connection to JFK assassination.

BK

I'm breaking a cardinal rule in not providing a link for the following but anyone with a maryferrell.org subscription who knows how to search the site can corroborate, I will try to provide the links soon.

1. Roselli's phone was bugged by the government, [can't recall if it was FBI or CIA] a pertinent doc states that there was no activity inside Roselli's residence on 11/22/63.

2. Another document regarding William Harvey states that Harvey continued to be in periodic contact with Roselli, and that Harvey told someone, [i believe it was Halpern], that in 1963 William Harvey had met with Harvey once at a restaurant, city not specified.

My guess would be the restaurant was in Miami or Washington, I certainly doubt it was in Rome.....But who knows.

[Wim Dankbaar]

Forget all the stuff before 1963.

What was Roselli doing at JMWAVE?

That is his connection to JFK assassination.

BK

I agree.

In November, 1963, Roselli travelled to Arizona with a male friend and two women. He was being followed by the FBI but on the way to Los Vegas they lost contact with him.

To which destination did he travel in Arizona? Licavoli's Grace Ranch?

Wim

Edited April 7, 2008 by Wim Dankbaar

[William Plumlee]

Forget all the stuff before 1963.

What was Roselli doing at JMWAVE?

That is his connection to JFK assassination.

BK

I agree.

In November, 1963, Roselli travelled to Arizona with a male friend and two women. He was being followed by the FBI but on the way to Los Vegas they lost contact with him.

To which destination did he travel in Arizona? Licavoli's Grace Ranch?

Wim

YES. From Caravan Inn in Phoenix to Grace Ranch after returning from Thunderbird Inn in Nevada outside of Vegas (November of 1963

( also see information concerning another earlier flight with Roselli from Burbank and Santa Barbara CA to Grace Ranch outside of Tucson AZ; as well as a Galveston Texas flight also in the spring of 1963 (reference, April 1963 flight plan of N6393 Echo flown from Thomson Flying Service of Salt Lake City, Utah. (Ralston, Rawlston, aka Roselli on board, as handwritten notations on flight plan) ( located in FBI 26 Lab file; referenced as, "Plumlee ITSA")

Roselli was in DC a few days before the assassination and flew down to Tampa two days before the assassination; reg at the Congress Inn Tampa Fla. A few days before his trip to Washington DC he was signed in at the JM WAVE gate as COL Ralwston , Miami Station (documented) (FBI Hoover changed the record at request of CIA; referenced Dade County Homicide investigation, ref; Det. Smith Miami Homo 1981)

Mc Cord Ranch of NM..., also note another FBI document in reference to the $15,000 found in a bus locker in West Palm, Florida Spring of 63.., the money was later RETURNED to Roselli (as noted by FBI documents and testimony of subject, 1963)

This money was received at the Grace Ranch for the purchase of military hardware (P-51) at Miranda Air Park north of Tucson, AZ. The aircraft could not be obtained and the money was taken from AZ by a pilot to West Palm Beach, Florida and put in a bus locker..., and eventually the money was given to Roselli by the "AGENTS" ( note: two sets of FBI documents were released by the FBI. One said nothing was found in the locker except an "old pair of binoculars", ref; FOIA, 1981 release. Another FOIA 1997 release stated,... " the money was found in the locker and turned over to the CIA (agents) by the FBI. This information was classified secret until 1997. or there about. This information was given to Congressman Tom Downing, Senator Gary Hart and Senator Berry Goldwater before the HSCA was even formed. (1976-77)

Perhaps some would like to highlight and post the documents... I do not have time , nor care.

I was asked by a friend to POST this information and to point to those references and documents... I care less what is done with this information... Its been available for years ( 1963-1976-78; as well as few days before Roselli was murdered, (note infomation to PHX Org Crime and PHX FBI on July 24, 1976 concerning concern for the safty of subject and ???...; (FBI PHX 62 and XXX documentation in PHOENIX Org Crime detail files as well as PHX FBI files...ref; Sgt Ed Salem and Sgt H. Hawkins) as well as released of FOIA to Barnard Finisterwald Jr.,1981 and another FOIA release in 1993; 1997 There are conflicting FBI documents released by FOIA FBI) (note FBI document; "came to residence of subject wanting to know everything about ROSELLI if Roselli was noit mentioned in previous contacgt on July 24..., then why did they come to subjects house in August after Roselli's body had been found.., asking about any and all information subject may have pertaining to Roaselli and his murder?) I think that is a valid question as yet has not been answered.

I post this for those who are really serious about the JFK mess and Roselli's background before the assassination. I, as I have said, care less what is done with this information and documentation, or how it is chewed up by the so called experts. Its documented before the fact as far back as the spring 1963 and again in 1976 as well as 1991) (62-2116)FWIW.

Plumlee

P.S. Roselli never trained anyone let alone at No Name... No Name was never CIA or connected to same, or associated in any way with the CIA or MI. I care less what others have said on that subject, its wrong.

If the true story about Roselli was ever released then all the books and previous theories would have to be re written and we know that is never going to happen.. The experts have spoken.. Players don't mean CRAP. Dead or Alive.

Want to know who the lady was? suck eggs.

Edited April 7, 2008 by William Plumlee

[Harry J.Dean]

Forget all the stuff before 1963.

What was Roselli doing at JMWAVE?

That is his connection to JFK assassination.

BK

I agree.

In November, 1963, Roselli travelled to Arizona with a male friend and two women. He was being followed by the FBI but on the way to Los Vegas they lost contact with him.

To which destination did he travel in Arizona? Licavoli's Grace Ranch?

Wim

YES. From Caravan Inn in Phoenix to Grace Ranch after returning from Thunderbird Inn in Nevada outside of Vegas (November of 1963

( also see information concerning another earlier flight with Roselli from Burbank and Santa Barbara CA to Grace Ranch outside of Tucson AZ; as well as a Galveston Texas flight also in the spring of 1963 (reference, April 1963 flight plan of N6393 Echo flown from Thomson Flying Service of Salt Lake City, Utah. (Ralston, Rawlston, aka Roselli on board, as handwritten notations on flight plan) ( located in FBI 26 Lab file; referenced as, "Plumlee ITSA")

Roselli was in DC a few days before the assassination and flew down to Tampa two days before the assassination; reg at the Congress Inn Tampa Fla. A few days before his trip to Washington DC he was signed in at the JM WAVE gate as COL Ralwston , Miami Station (documented) (FBI Hoover changed the record at request of CIA; referenced Dade County Homicide investigation, ref; Det. Smith Miami Homo 1981)

Mc Cord Ranch of NM..., also note another FBI document in reference to the $15,000 found in a bus locker in West Palm, Florida Spring of 63.., the money was later RETURNED to Roselli (as noted by FBI documents and testimony of subject, 1963)

This money was received at the Grace Ranch for the purchase of military hardware (P-51) at Miranda Air Park north of Tucson, AZ. The aircraft could not be obtained and the money was taken from AZ by a pilot to West Palm Beach, Florida and put in a bus locker..., and eventually the money was given to Roselli by the "AGENTS" ( note: two sets of FBI documents were released by the FBI. One said nothing was found in the locker except an "old pair of binoculars", ref; FOIA, 1981 release. Another FOIA 1997 release stated,... " the money was found in the locker and turned over to the CIA (agents) by the FBI. This information was classified secret until 1997. or there about. This information was given to Congressman Tom Downing, Senator Gary Hart and Senator Berry Goldwater before the HSCA was even formed. (1976-77)

Perhaps some would like to highlight and post the documents... I do not have time , nor care.

I was asked by a friend to POST this information and to point to those references and documents... I care less what is done with this information... Its been available for years ( 1963-1976-78; as well as few days before Roselli was murdered, (note infomation to PHX Org Crime and PHX FBI on July 24, 1976 concerning concern for the safty of subject and ???...; (FBI PHX 62 and XXX documentation in PHOENIX Org Crime detail files as well as PHX FBI files...ref; Sgt Ed Salem and Sgt H. Hawkins) as well as released of FOIA to Barnard Finisterwald Jr.,1981 and another FOIA release in 1993; 1997 There are conflicting FBI documents released by FOIA FBI) (note FBI document; "came to residence of subject wanting to know everything about ROSELLI if Roselli was noit mentioned in previous contacgt on July 24..., then why did they come to subjects house in August after Roselli's body had been found.., asking about any and all information subject may have pertaining to Roaselli and his murder?) I think that is a valid question as yet has not been answered.

I post this for those who are really serious about the JFK mess and Roselli's background before the assassination. I, as I have said, care less what is done with this information and documentation, or how it is chewed up by the so called experts. Its documented before the fact as far back as the spring 1963 and again in 1976 as well as 1991) (62-2116)FWIW.

Plumlee

P.S. Roselli never trained anyone let alone at No Name... No Name was never CIA or connected to same, or associated in any way with the CIA or MI. I care less what others have said on that subject, its wrong.

If the true story about Roselli was ever released then all the books and previous theories would have to be re written and we know that is never going to happen.. The experts have spoken.. Players don't mean CRAP. Dead or Alive.

Want to know who the lady was? suck eggs.

Hey Tosh

Re; yours above on Roselli-CIA-MI and No Name Key, here is another observation from my

1990 manuscript/book on the subject.

........the majority of these medical supplies were destined to accompany {Skip} Hall

and {Larry} Howard's car and trailer load of weapons and ammunition to No Name Key

in Florida. The goods were to aid "La Sombra" {The Shadows}, an anti-Castro raider

group under the command of Hall. This effort was organized by {LDS} W. Cleon Skosen

and {JBS} John H. Rousselot, and chaired by anti-Castro Cubans. It was not a CIA

operation.

[William Plumlee]

Forget all the stuff before 1963.

What was Roselli doing at JMWAVE?

That is his connection to JFK assassination.

BK

I agree.

In November, 1963, Roselli travelled to Arizona with a male friend and two women. He was being followed by the FBI but on the way to Los Vegas they lost contact with him.

To which destination did he travel in Arizona? Licavoli's Grace Ranch?

Wim

YES. From Caravan Inn in Phoenix to Grace Ranch after returning from Thunderbird Inn in Nevada outside of Vegas (November of 1963

( also see information concerning another earlier flight with Roselli from Burbank and Santa Barbara CA to Grace Ranch outside of Tucson AZ; as well as a Galveston Texas flight also in the spring of 1963 (reference, April 1963 flight plan of N6393 Echo flown from Thomson Flying Service of Salt Lake City, Utah. (Ralston, Rawlston, aka Roselli on board, as handwritten notations on flight plan) ( located in FBI 26 Lab file; referenced as, "Plumlee ITSA")

Roselli was in DC a few days before the assassination and flew down to Tampa two days before the assassination; reg at the Congress Inn Tampa Fla. A few days before his trip to Washington DC he was signed in at the JM WAVE gate as COL Ralwston , Miami Station (documented) (FBI Hoover changed the record at request of CIA; referenced Dade County Homicide investigation, ref; Det. Smith Miami Homo 1981)

Mc Cord Ranch of NM..., also note another FBI document in reference to the $15,000 found in a bus locker in West Palm, Florida Spring of 63.., the money was later RETURNED to Roselli (as noted by FBI documents and testimony of subject, 1963)

This money was received at the Grace Ranch for the purchase of military hardware (P-51) at Miranda Air Park north of Tucson, AZ. The aircraft could not be obtained and the money was taken from AZ by a pilot to West Palm Beach, Florida and put in a bus locker..., and eventually the money was given to Roselli by the "AGENTS" ( note: two sets of FBI documents were released by the FBI. One said nothing was found in the locker except an "old pair of binoculars", ref; FOIA, 1981 release. Another FOIA 1997 release stated,... " the money was found in the locker and turned over to the CIA (agents) by the FBI. This information was classified secret until 1997. or there about. This information was given to Congressman Tom Downing, Senator Gary Hart and Senator Berry Goldwater before the HSCA was even formed. (1976-77)

Perhaps some would like to highlight and post the documents... I do not have time , nor care.

I was asked by a friend to POST this information and to point to those references and documents... I care less what is done with this information... Its been available for years ( 1963-1976-78; as well as few days before Roselli was murdered, (note infomation to PHX Org Crime and PHX FBI on July 24, 1976 concerning concern for the safty of subject and ???...; (FBI PHX 62 and XXX documentation in PHOENIX Org Crime detail files as well as PHX FBI files...ref; Sgt Ed Salem and Sgt H. Hawkins) as well as released of FOIA to Barnard Finisterwald Jr.,1981 and another FOIA release in 1993; 1997 There are conflicting FBI documents released by FOIA FBI) (note FBI document; "came to residence of subject wanting to know everything about ROSELLI if Roselli was noit mentioned in previous contacgt on July 24..., then why did they come to subjects house in August after Roselli's body had been found.., asking about any and all information subject may have pertaining to Roaselli and his murder?) I think that is a valid question as yet has not been answered.

I post this for those who are really serious about the JFK mess and Roselli's background before the assassination. I, as I have said, care less what is done with this information and documentation, or how it is chewed up by the so called experts. Its documented before the fact as far back as the spring 1963 and again in 1976 as well as 1991) (62-2116)FWIW.

Plumlee

P.S. Roselli never trained anyone let alone at No Name... No Name was never CIA or connected to same, or associated in any way with the CIA or MI. I care less what others have said on that subject, its wrong.

If the true story about Roselli was ever released then all the books and previous theories would have to be re written and we know that is never going to happen.. The experts have spoken.. Players don't mean CRAP. Dead or Alive.

Want to know who the lady was? suck eggs.

Hey Tosh

Re; yours above on Roselli-CIA-MI and No Name Key, here is another observation from my

1990 manuscript/book on the subject.

........the majority of these medical supplies were destined to accompany {Skip} Hall

and {Larry} Howard's car and trailer load of weapons and ammunition to No Name Key

in Florida. The goods were to aid "La Sombra" {The Shadows}, an anti-Castro raider

group under the command of Hall. This effort was organized by {LDS} W. Cleon Skosen

and {JBS} John H. Rousselot, and chaired by anti-Castro Cubans. It was not a CIA

operation.

Your right on Harry. The word "Independent" comes to mind. As you know at one time there were as many as eleven, "Independent" private funded groups operating around south Florida and none of them were government sanctioned, or affiliated with CIA (as some have claimed) Most of them ( the independents) only "ripped off" wealthy Cubans and others who had good intentions and lots of money and only wanted to be a part of what they considered a good cause.. fighting communism and its encroachment on American values.

It was a "Cold War" issue in those days. Some, as I called them, "Mercs" took advantage of this.., and the money. However, I do qualify to a degree and say not all the independents worked the circuit of money grabbing and the likes. There were some good ones who, in their own way, worked the cause. Sad to say most of those types were shut down along with the frauds by the government and the FBI. It was a different time and place back in those days..., a time when the now eight to five cannot even comprehend. Take care friend.

Pete. As to the lady, Its in the FOIA FBI early 1981 documents, which, you, Jim, and I marked that day in Texas. Castro's girlfriend.., She was American and was a friend of Lisa Howard..., remember? However at that time you as well as Jim did not seem interested in Lily Gondi CIA Alias or Howard... the NY lady in question... You guys just flew right over that little tid bit of information because you wanted to get to the "Umbrella man, next to Gator" and the code names used on my flight to Dallas... remember? I remember you were upset because I could not or would not tell you, because I never knew their real names and told you and Jim so...and too why I would not know their real names However, you would or could not accept that...., you missed so much back in those days because you were focused so much on trying to prove a theory rather than listen to an operative or read what was before you... Snooze you loose.... sorry bout' that... to late now... You take care and love the Wolf....and too, the Bear. Tosh

[Chris Cox]

Tosh and Harry

Another quick question

So how do you know if it is or isn't, if only those who know, need to know? You know?

Sugar cane was burned to affect the harvest, rainmakers and beetle droppers tried their luck, the leaflets were dropped, bridges were put out of commission and the freighters were sabotaged etc etc. over a period of years. Did it matter to any of you back then if something was sanctioned or not as far as you could tell and how could one tell then anyway? Everyone I've talked to almost all the vets of this time let the mission dictate their actions regardless of source because the waters were so cloudy then anyway. The question is did it matter who was the ultimate sponsor?

Tosh did Lisa Howard have a tete a tete with Fidel? It is part of David Talbot's book and I couldn't fathom how this could be true if she was the Kennedy's back channel. Thoughts?

[William Plumlee]

Tosh and Harry

Another quick question

So how do you know if it is or isn't, if only those who know, need to know? You know?

Sugar cane was burned to affect the harvest, rainmakers and beetle droppers tried their luck, the leaflets were dropped, bridges were put out of commission and the freighters were sabotaged etc etc. over a period of years. Did it matter to any of you back then if something was sanctioned or not as far as you could tell and how could one tell then anyway? Everyone I've talked to almost all the vets of this time let the mission dictate their actions regardless of source because the waters were so cloudy then anyway. The question is did it matter who was the ultimate sponsor?

Tosh did Lisa Howard have a tete a tete with Fidel? It is part of David Talbot's book and I couldn't fathom how this could be true if she was the Kennedy's back channel. Thoughts?

Hi Christy: As the saying goes; "Ye shall know them by their fruits". As I said some of the Independents were A.O.K. However, they did not have the cover or protection of the United States government, or the CIA. They were reckless to a degree, as we were also. None the less, if we messed up we were covered or pulled out of the operation and sent back to the "Farm" (to cool off for a spell) Where as an Independent was left on the vine... to fend for himself.., so to speak. And too, It really did not matter to us who did the work as long as it got done. It was when they (the independents) got caught that mattered, because it put heat on us, and that was a No, No.. (Watergate, remember)

Of course when they were caught or exposed they dropped names and indicated they were CIA, FBI, or MI . This caused the CIA a big headache as well as the FBI... the FBI was never sure who was or was not CIA or MI for that matter. Some independents did work their own missions and worked them well. Its true you could sometimes never really tell what was CIA and what was Independent. BUT. When two Ops came together and the coded references did not match, or the "passwords" or the coded terminology did not jive, then you knew.., and that contact was broken and reported and that operation was shut down and some were carted off to jail.

Example: Two guys talking at the "Dark Horse Bar" West Palm.

The Merc;

"...we set the charges and burned the field..., and then ran like hell.".

The operative:

" Ya, I know what you mean. We did that once and Poinsettia had to come in and get us out".

" Yes... I know what you mean. We were taken out of Cuba once on that ship.., The Poinsettia".

Well in fact there was no ship named the Poinsettia... Poinsettia was in reference to a Latin song... " your branches speak to me of Love...,, pale moon casting shadows from above". It was a sanctioned operation. That song was a code... meaning not safe... get out while you can.

Poinsettia was also referenced as a CIA/MI OMC operation and only those connected or assigned knew what it meant. There are other examples, many of them. (meathods and procedures training)

Now. What I was referencing was those who did nothing except boast about their feats of daring do, to the money sources, and collected money under false pretenses and partied in Miami and the Keys with the funding collected from their BS. They never did anything except talk a lot. They would buy a few gadgets; show them to their money sources; then sell them to the highest bidder to the underground at marked up prices. It was a racket. (right Harry)

We knew most of them as well as did the CIA, MI OMC; Alpha -66, and the FBI, as well as Miami Vice. Alex and you father were within the umbrella of Poinsettia although I can not prove it... but John Martino and Tony Vencianna knew as well as Rip Robertson and Harvey. In short... On an Op you walked the talk and talked the walk... if not it did not fit. It was a hard life but very adventurous for a young man of twenty or twenty-five, or so.

As to Lisa Howard. Some said she did have an affair with Castro, but it was before the agreement and it was suppose to have happen in NY. However, I do not know if this is true or not. I think it was the other woman. This was shortly after 1959 when Castro came to NY. I believe some at a later date incerted Howard in place of this lady and changed the dates from 1959 to 63 and the place to Havana... smelled like CIA to me. But what would I know about that. Ask Dorthy Killgallin ?.

Hang in there little lady". Later Tosh

[Harry J.Dean]

Tosh and Harry

Another quick question

So how do you know if it is or isn't, if only those who know, need to know? You know?

Sugar cane was burned to affect the harvest, rainmakers and beetle droppers tried their luck, the leaflets were dropped, bridges were put out of commission and the freighters were sabotaged etc etc. over a period of years. Did it matter to any of you back then if something was sanctioned or not as far as you could tell and how could one tell then anyway? Everyone I've talked to almost all the vets of this time let the mission dictate their actions regardless of source because the waters were so cloudy then anyway. The question is did it matter who was the ultimate sponsor?

Tosh did Lisa Howard have a tete a tete with Fidel? It is part of David Talbot's book and I couldn't fathom how this could be true if she was the Kennedy's back channel. Thoughts?

Hi, Chris

In this case these people were my anti-Castro associates. Connections to sourse{s} and

sponsors were known by some, up to the higher level of {LDS} Skousen and {JBS} Rousselot

et al. So much and so many were included behind this and other combind anti-Castro/anti- Kennedy activity, but the goods for No Name Key were not CIA sponsored.

Harry

[Chris Cox]

Harry, Tosh, you supported Castro along with my father and multitude of young patriotic idealistic others who believed in the revolution but ended up on the other side. Would you say that there were many gringos you didn’t know then but know were there now? You are more aware now in the recap then you were then?

That book I told you about discusses this in (sometimes boring) depth. Tosh knows guns from US armories went to the rebels. The Dept. State and Mil were in support early on. Pilots contracted to do the drops to the rebel factions and participated in the urban revolts, just as they did during the counterrev sabotage effort post Huber Matos and Cienfuegos. A Second Front was given support, later this same group is linked to Miami and the keys – Big Pine is only one of the locations of many. Sanctioned or not the area is steeped in it. From Miami down intrigue abounds, as you well know.

So later in the OC-- Harry on which side of the Cuba issue was the group you became involved with after your Castro support? These LDS and asst right-wingers were historically on what-- the Nixon side, for instance, always “don’t trust Castro” what would you say was their prevailing point of view from the getgo?

Tosh, re: “As to Lisa Howard. Some said she did have an affair with Castro, but it was before the agreement and it was suppose to have happen in NY. However, I do not know if this is true or not. I think it was the other woman. This was shortly after 1959 when Castro came to NY”.

So Howard hooked up with Fidel in NYC in fall 1959? She had a party and flirted with Che I read but I’m confused….

The NYC friend-- Was there a Lisa/Marita connection? What, you think, would have been the backlash of an affair with Castro when Lisa was carrying on a mission of state, back then when you were doing what you were to get her in and out of Cuba? How does this mesh with the Marita mission of record.

As you both know, Wm Morgan was left behind as he was fomenting counterrev in region that was being purged into the seventies. A man associated with him served some years. Martino also served some time, same time and got out earlier and alive. Others had to wait. What was the Martino connection if he was not a direct witness to the Morgan execution but later surfaces as if he was witness and even talks on this point, but also shows up with Tosh in safehouses in Miami?

[Tim Gratz]

Robert wrote:

William Harvey had met with Harvey once at a restaurant, city not specified.

You gotta be a serious alcoholic to have luncheon meetings with yourself!

If Robert means Harvey met with Roselli in 1963 the meeting may have been in Islamorado in April of 1963. I assume readers are familiar with that story?

[Wim Dankbaar]

http://toshplumlee.info/

[Harry J.Dean]

Harry, Tosh, you supported Castro along with my father and multitude of young patriotic idealistic others who believed in the revolution but ended up on the other side. Would you say that there were many gringos you didn’t know then but know were there now? You are more aware now in the recap then you were then?

That book I told you about discusses this in (sometimes boring) depth. Tosh knows guns from US armories went to the rebels. The Dept. State and Mil were in support early on. Pilots contracted to do the drops to the rebel factions and participated in the urban revolts, just as they did during the counterrev sabotage effort post Huber Matos and Cienfuegos. A Second Front was given support, later this same group is linked to Miami and the keys – Big Pine is only one of the locations of many. Sanctioned or not the area is steeped in it. From Miami down intrigue abounds, as you well know.

So later in the OC-- Harry on which side of the Cuba issue was the group you became involved with after your Castro support? These LDS and asst right-wingers were historically on what-- the Nixon side, for instance, always “don’t trust Castro” what would you say was their prevailing point of view from the getgo?

Tosh, re: “As to Lisa Howard. Some said she did have an affair with Castro, but it was before the agreement and it was suppose to have happen in NY. However, I do not know if this is true or not. I think it was the other woman. This was shortly after 1959 when Castro came to NY”.

So Howard hooked up with Fidel in NYC in fall 1959? She had a party and flirted with Che I read but I’m confused….

The NYC friend-- Was there a Lisa/Marita connection? What, you think, would have been the backlash of an affair with Castro when Lisa was carrying on a mission of state, back then when you were doing what you were to get her in and out of Cuba? How does this mesh with the Marita mission of record.

As you both know, Wm Morgan was left behind as he was fomenting counterrev in region that was being purged into the seventies. A man associated with him served some years. Martino also served some time, same time and got out earlier and alive. Others had to wait. What was the Martino connection if he was not a direct witness to the Morgan execution but later surfaces as if he was witness and even talks on this point, but also shows up with Tosh in safehouses in Miami?

Hi, Chris

The prevailing view of the American leadership of anti-Castro group{s}

I became involved with had done so for anti-Kennedy political purposes

by using the Cuba problem.

The US. political leftists likewise were promoting pro-Castro

actions to advance their own national and international position.

However anti-Castro activists and associates who were once favorable to

the Castro-Cuban Revolution were equally sincere in their later

convictions.

My thoughts on Morgan are outlined in the "Morgan Poem" and do not

agree with his being counterrevolutionary.

Harry

[Chris Cox]

Thanks Harry

Maybe "countercommunist" is more appropriate term than counterevolutionary which was the charge from the other side.

off Roselli topic but did need correction

[Harry J.Dean]

Thanks Harry

Maybe "countercommunist" is more appropriate term than counterevolutionary which was the charge from the other side.

off Roselli topic but did need correction

Hi, Chris

There were vastly more non-Cuban Americans who became anti-Castro

activists, than those comparative few who participated in various ways,

on behalf of the Revolution.

Yes Morgan was anti-Communist, in following what he believed was up

to that time Castro's own direction. Morgan became an entangled victim.

Harry

[Terry Mauro]

Harry, Tosh, you supported Castro along with my father and multitude of young patriotic idealistic others who believed in the revolution but ended up on the other side. Would you say that there were many gringos you didn’t know then but know were there now? You are more aware now in the recap then you were then?

That book I told you about discusses this in (sometimes boring) depth. Tosh knows guns from US armories went to the rebels. The Dept. State and Mil were in support early on. Pilots contracted to do the drops to the rebel factions and participated in the urban revolts, just as they did during the counterrev sabotage effort post Huber Matos and Cienfuegos. A Second Front was given support, later this same group is linked to Miami and the keys – Big Pine is only one of the locations of many. Sanctioned or not the area is steeped in it. From Miami down intrigue abounds, as you well know.

So later in the OC-- Harry on which side of the Cuba issue was the group you became involved with after your Castro support? These LDS and asst right-wingers were historically on what-- the Nixon side, for instance, always “don’t trust Castro” what would you say was their prevailing point of view from the getgo?

Tosh, re: “As to Lisa Howard. Some said she did have an affair with Castro, but it was before the agreement and it was suppose to have happen in NY. However, I do not know if this is true or not. I think it was the other woman. This was shortly after 1959 when Castro came to NY”.

So Howard hooked up with Fidel in NYC in fall 1959? She had a party and flirted with Che I read but I’m confused….

The NYC friend-- Was there a Lisa/Marita connection? What, you think, would have been the backlash of an affair with Castro when Lisa was carrying on a mission of state, back then when you were doing what you were to get her in and out of Cuba? How does this mesh with the Marita mission of record.

As you both know, Wm Morgan was left behind as he was fomenting counterrev in region that was being purged into the seventies. A man associated with him served some years. Martino also served some time, same time and got out earlier and alive. Others had to wait. What was the Martino connection if he was not a direct witness to the Morgan execution but later surfaces as if he was witness and even talks on this point, but also shows up with Tosh in safehouses in Miami?

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"Harry, Tosh, you supported Castro along with my father and multitude of young patriotic idealistic others who believed in the revolution but ended up on the other side."

This is good to hear, Crissie, as I always supported Fidel and Che.

Was your Dad an independent, or a bonafide agent for Central? I've never quite read the whole story, except that he was either MIA, or killed in the line of duty. That's a legacy-and-a-half for you to have to carry around, all these years.

As I read this thread, I immediately thought of Marita Lorenz for the NYC CIA operative connection to Fidel. Then, there's all those pics of her running around in the Keys with Gerry and Sturgis, which could've meant a double "00" rank for her, as was rumored of the status of Fiorini aka Sturgis.

From the photos I've seen, and the information I've read on Lisa Howard, I concluded that her relationship with Fidel was far more complex, and possibly more on the level of that of a back-channel business and/or mediator between the White House and Havana. Which is what got her killed, as I believe she was murdered, or "suicided."

From a Spanish language biographical book on Che, I surmised that if Howard was having any kind of a tete-a-tete with anyone, it would more than likely have been with Che for whom, it would seem, she only had eyes according to the photos I've seen of them together. But, that's just my understanding of it.