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Guest Stephen Turner

Paul Rothermel. the Hunt memo.

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I dont know if this information has already been posted here. If it has I beg your indulgence.

In a November 4th 1963 memo, HL Hunt security chief Paul Rothermel informed his boss that there had been, "Unconfirmed reports of possible violence during the motorcade" Rothermel did not directly identify his sources, but it was clear from the memo that he was sharing information with the FBI, and the DPD. This was coming from informants placed in Gen Edwin Walkers right wing political action groups. (most likely the minutemen, and the JBS) From the memo.

" The North Texas informant is reporting information that would indicate that a group may be planning an incident." There is another report from a left wing group that an incident will occur with the full knowledge of the President, whereby the left wingers will start the incident in hopes of dragging in any of the right wing groups, and individuals nearby, and then withdraw. the talk is that the incident involving Adlai Stevenson made the present administration hopeful in that they could get the same thing to happen to Kennedy, it could reasure his re-election. If an incident of this nature were to occur, the true story of who perpetrated it would never come out."

Now how about if this screwball "Northwoods" incident were hijacked by Hunt and his boys. And further is this how Oswald got himself sheepdipped, and with a traceable weapon?

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I dont know if this information has already been posted here. If it has I beg your indulgence.

I take it from the complete lack of responce that the answer to the above is.YES. Sorry to detract from the endless insult slinging, that now seems to pass for research on this forum. Steve.

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I dont know if this information has already been posted here. If it has I beg your indulgence.

I take it from the complete lack of responce that the answer to the above is.YES. Sorry to detract from the endless insult slinging, that now seems to pass for research on this forum. Steve.

No response, happens to the best of us. I would mention re your thread that, Paul Rothermel was certainly in the know, a part of that select group in Dallas, [no hidden meaning to the word select] which knew at least some of the 'who, what, when, where and how, at least inasmuch as was possible for one person. Rothermel told Mr Russell in TMWKTM, that the Hunt's dispatched him to purchase the Zapruder film on the afternoon of the assassination. Rothermel said "I got the first copy as far as I know."

Dick Russell - The Man Who Knew Too Much page 374. Updated Version

I wonder if we will ever learn what happened to it.

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Robert : No, you won't see it, Rothermel told me that what he knows about 11-22-63 (alot IMO)... will "die with him".

-BILL

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Robert Howard, quoting Dick Russell:

Rothermel told Mr Russell in TMWKTM, that the Hunt's dispatched him to purchase the Zapruder film on the afternoon of the assassination. Rothermel said "I got the first copy as far as I know."

Dick Russell - The Man Who Knew Too Much page 374. Updated Version

In another thread, Jack White posted Rich DellaRosa's accounts of his opportunities to view the "other film."

According to DellaRosa, H.L. Hunt was "very likely the person that commissioned the other film."

Could it have been the "other film" that Rothermel got the first copy of? Probably not. Just my imagination working overtime.

Mike Hogan

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Robert : No, you won't see it, Rothermel told me that what he knows about 11-22-63 (alot IMO)... will "die with him".

-BILL

Bill,

I gather from your post that you have spoken with Rothermel at length. Do you know anything about him making the Boone and Crockett Club trophy list during the mid 1960's? This was a club for hunters.

Also, do you know anything about a character named John Sawtooth?

James

Edited by James Richards

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I dont know if this information has already been posted here. If it has I beg your indulgence.

In a November 4th 1963 memo, HL Hunt security chief Paul Rothermel informed his boss that there had been, "Unconfirmed reports of possible violence during the motorcade" Rothermel did not directly identify his sources, but it was clear from the memo that he was sharing information with the FBI, and the DPD. This was coming from informants placed in Gen Edwin Walkers right wing political action groups. (most likely the minutemen, and the JBS) From the memo.

" The North Texas informant is reporting information that would indicate that a group may be planning an incident." There is another report from a left wing group that an incident will occur with the full knowledge of the President, whereby the left wingers will start the incident in hopes of dragging in any of the right wing groups, and individuals nearby, and then withdraw. the talk is that the incident involving Adlai Stevenson made the present administration hopeful in that they could get the same thing to happen to Kennedy, it could reasure his re-election. If an incident of this nature were to occur, the true story of who perpetrated it would never come out."

Now how about if this screwball "Northwoods" incident were hijacked by Hunt and his boys. And further is this how Oswald got himself sheepdipped, and with a traceable weapon?

Stephen, it would sure help explain a few things.

But it could be more complicated than the memo suggests.

The Criminal Intelligence Section of the DPD made a report dated Feb 5, 1964 that they had increased scrutiny on "known extremists and subversive groups".

Of the groups listed, the only "left wing" groups were:

The American GI Forum [at least one of the original members of the Dallas chapter was FBI informant, Bill Lowery. Another member (Felix Botello) was also a member of an un-named militia whose putative leader was Vance Beaudreax. This group had planned to to take a cache of weapons to help out at Ole Miss. Yet another member, Albert Gonzalez, was reported as describing Joe Molina as "conservative" during a private conversation. This bunch an extreme left wing subversive group? Risible.

Young People's Socialist League It's hard to imagine the Dallas YPSL as having enough members to orchestrate anything like that suggested by Rothermel.

Dallas Civil Liberties Union Almost impossible to imagine the Dallas ACLU as orchestrating anything more pulse-raising than a game of bingo. And though the organisation, as a national entity, was regarded as "communistic" by Hoover, various govt committees and police forces, the Dallas version seems to have had a soft spot for the JBS ("Don't call them anti-Semites!").

AS a side-bar, the DPD document makes clear that "a number of" the groups (left and right) had been infiltrated. If the ACLU was among those into which CIS had placed informants, they should have been well aware of LHO, since new faces would be something they'd be reporting on, particularly one so (allegedly) outspoken.

Where does this leave Rothermal's memo? As I said at the start, it could be more complicated than suggested. According to Richard Helms, to "infiltrate" a group was to join it as a member and appear to support its purposes in general; to "penetrate" a group was to gain a leadership position, and influence or direct its policies and actions. Some of these groups weren't merely infiltrated - they were penetrated by CIS, FBI and right wing groups. Consider the ramifications of Rothermel's memo in that light.

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Stephen,

I dont know if this information has already been posted here. If it has I beg your indulgence.

In a November 4th 1963 memo, HL Hunt security chief Paul Rothermel informed his boss that there had been, "Unconfirmed reports of possible violence during the motorcade" Rothermel did not directly identify his sources,

That's really coincidental.

I was just reading those memos and reports yesterday myself.

Steve Thomas

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Robert : No, you won't see it, Rothermel told me that what he knows about 11-22-63 (alot IMO)... will "die with him".

-BILL

Bill,

I gather from your post that you have spoken with Rothermel at length. Do you know anything about him making the Boone and Crockett Club trophy list during the mid 1960's? This was a club for hunters.

Also, do you know anything about a character named John Sawtooth?

James

James; Yes we did talk to him for a couple of hours. Specifically, I don't know about Boone and Crockett Club , but he had a very impressive "Trophy Room" in his house, I call it the "Kill Room" because it had every type of hunting weapon you could imagine, in a large wall glass display case. Water Buffalo head the size of a truck, was on the opposite wall, among many other other critters. Wouldn't suprise me if the real long arm that killed JFK, was in that case... Kinda like that judge in the Megar Evans case, know whata mean? Sawtooth doesn't ring a bell at the moment.

-Bill

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Robert : No, you won't see it, Rothermel told me that what he knows about 11-22-63 (alot IMO)... will "die with him".

-BILL

Bill,

I gather from your post that you have spoken with Rothermel at length. Do you know anything about him making the Boone and Crockett Club trophy list during the mid 1960's? This was a club for hunters.

Also, do you know anything about a character named John Sawtooth?

James

James; Yes we did talk to him for a couple of hours. Specifically, I don't know about Boone and Crockett Club , but he had a very impressive "Trophy Room" in his house, I call it the "Kill Room" because it had every type of hunting weapon you could imagine, in a large wall glass display case. Water Buffalo head the size of a truck, was on the opposite wall, among many other other critters. Wouldn't suprise me if the real long arm that killed JFK, was in that case... Kinda like that judge in the Megar Evans case, know whata mean? Sawtooth doesn't ring a bell at the moment.

-Bill

Thanks, Bill.

That is interesting information. Rothermel was indeed a proficient hunter. In these pursuits he was associated with John Sawtooth who was an Indian guide. Sawtooth himself was aquainted with Loy Factor.

James

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Bob,

What you don't know or minimize still competes against you.

JFKCountercoup2: The Addendum to “Our Man in Haiti.”

jfkcountercoup2.blogspot.com/.../the-addendum-to-our-man-in-haiti.ht...

Nov 26, 2012 – Mellen claims that Rothermel was actually working for the CIA and rather than deflect the assassination investigation from Hunt, he directed .

Texas Monthly - Apr 1978 - Page 196

books.google.com/books?id=UiwEAAAAMBAJ

Vol. 6, No. 4 - Magazine - Full view

Later, after obtaining some heavily censored Freedom of Information Act files on Rothermel, the Hunts alleged that he had been granted special treatment because he was a government agent, most likely with the CIA. Claiming he and the

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Bob,

What you don't know or minimize still competes against you.

JFKCountercoup2: The Addendum to “Our Man in Haiti.”

jfkcountercoup2.blogspot.com/.../the-addendum-to-our-man-in-haiti.ht...

Nov 26, 2012 – Mellen claims that Rothermel was actually working for the CIA and rather than deflect the assassination investigation from Hunt, he directed .

Texas Monthly - Apr 1978 - Page 196

books.google.com/books?id=UiwEAAAAMBAJ

Vol. 6, No. 4 - Magazine - Full view

Later, after obtaining some heavily censored Freedom of Information Act files on Rothermel, the Hunts alleged that he had been granted special treatment because he was a government agent, most likely with the CIA. Claiming he and the

And my response to that is: so what?. Mellon can't comprehend that Texas oil executives were in bed with US intelligence and the military. God knows the Hunts were - just look at HL Hunt's sponsorship of Gen. Edwin Walker for governor in 1962 and Gen. Curtis LeMay for Vice President in 1968. Rothermel had two masters CIA and HL Hunt. And if Rothermel points the finger at HL Hunt, with his ties to anti-Castro Cuban operatives and radicals, I tend to believe him.

Joan Mellon also thinks "Farewell America" is a disinformation book and their are plenty of people I know who will dispute her on that. Not to mention there is an entire chapter in "Farewell America" that is entitled "Spies" and is an oblique reference to US intelligence participation in the JFK assassination.

Like Lyndon Johnson said so succinctly: the murderers of JFK were Dallas, TX oil executives that Madeleine Brown knew personally and "renegade intelligence bastards." LBJ only left himself out of the mix as per usual.

Edited by Robert Morrow

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Might be fun to revisit this thread since we are talking about Rothermel.

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