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The Koch clan and the John Birch Society


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#1 Myra Bronstein

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:46 AM

I just learned that the infamous Koch brothers' father, Fred Koch (another oil mogul), was one of the founding members of the radical right wing John Birch Society. A lot of people, myself included, think the JBS was deeply involved in President Kennedy's murder.

Among the JBS members likely related to JFK's murder:
Haroldson Lafayette Hunt, aka HL Hunt,
Clint Murchison,
Nelson Bunker Hunt,
Edwin Walker,
John Rousselot.

Of course the Koch brothers founded/fund the radical right wing Tea Party.

#2 Myra Bronstein

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:57 AM

Again I have no idea if this is true:

http://www.addicting...-hate-part-one/

The Koch Family: A Legacy Of Hate (Part One)
BY ERIN NANASI – MARCH 11, 2011

"Charles and David Koch’s father, Frederick C. Koch, co-founded Koch Industries in 1940. It was initially a company for refining crude oil. Oil has always played a big part in the Koch family fortune, back as far as the 1930’s. Frederick C. Koch also co-founded something else: The John Birch Society. The JBS, among many things, opposed the Civil Rights Movement, wants the US out of the United Nations and believes in global conspiracies, most involving the Federal Reserve. The society was built on Fred Koch’s oil money in the 1950s and can be thought of as the center of neo-conservative politics, much like the Tea Party movement. The ideologies of each are not the same, but the Tea Party fits into the neo-conservative mold of liberalism being the root of all evil, distrust, if not flat out hatred of minorities, and a deep seeded fear of change.

And where did Fred Koch get these ideas?

Information connecting Ilse Koch (nee Kohler) is hard to find. It’s mainly fragments, pieces of information that connect the American and German Kochs and this connection gives a clear image of the sentiment behind the Tea Party and conservative American politics since the 1950s. Where is the connection between the German Koch’s and Fred Koch? Besides evidence the American Koch was related to Ilse’s family, Erich Koch, a high level Nazi official in charge of Prussia, invites Fred Koch to sell his oil in Nazi Germany when he is banned from doing business in the US. After the fall of Nazi Germany, Erich Koch and Fred expand the oil empire to the Soviet Union. Erich Koch had been in charge of Prussia for Hitler so his ties to the Soviet Union ran deep. A few years later the Soviets took Fred Koch’s oil and prosecuted Erich for war crimes. Fred Koch returned to the US, became a FLAMING anti-communist, and was allowed to do business in the States again. Fred Koch admired Mussolini’s tactics against Communism, and it is when he embraces this sort of thinking that he becomes a staunch opponent of civil rights.

Ilse and her husband Karl were tried by the SS before the war ended, accused of corruption. Karl Otto Koch was tried and sentenced to death in Nazi Germany, for incitement to murder and embezzlement. He was executed by firing quad on April 5th, 1945. After the war, Ilse was arrested in the German American Zone, tried in front of a tribunal and sentenced. Ilse committed suicide by hanging herself, in prison, in 1967. She was the only woman to be found guilty of war crimes in World War II.
...
Fred Chase Koch

(September 23, 1900 – November 17, 1967) chemical engineer and founded the TEXACO oil refinery firm that later became Koch Industries (Chevron). Koch and its customers were sued for patent infringement, process for turning crude oil into gasoline. Litigation effectively put Winkler-Koch out of business in the U.S. for several years. In other words, Koch was banned. Koch turned his focus to foreign markets, including the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, reportedly with the help of Erich Koch. During his time in the Soviet Union, Fred Koch came to despise communism and Josef Stalin’s regime “a land of hunger, misery and terror”.

Fred C. Koch married Mary Robinson in Kansas City, Missouri in 1932. They had four sons, Frederick (b. 1933), Charles (b. 1935), David (b. 1940) and William (b. 1940). His sons are Charles de Ganahl Koch and David H. Koch.

The New York Times on Charles and David:

“Koch Industries began with oil in the 1930s and now also spews an array of industrial products, from Dixie cups to Lycra, not unlike DuPont’s portfolio of paint and plastics. Sometimes the biological DNA persists as well. The Koch brothers’ father, Fred, was among the select group chosen to serve on the Birch Society’s top governing body. In a recorded 1963 speech that survives in a University of Michigan archive, he can be heard warning of “a takeover” of America in which Communists would “infiltrate the highest offices of government in the U.S. until the president is a Communist, unknown to the rest of us”. (That speech could be delivered as is at any Tea Party rally today, and has been, in one form or another.) article cont:

Last week the Kochs were shoved unwillingly into the spotlight by the most comprehensive journalistic portrait of them yet, written by Jane Mayer of The New Yorker. Her article caused a stir among those in Manhattan’s liberal elite who didn’t know that David Koch, widely celebrated for his cultural philanthropy, is not merely another rich conservative Republican but the founder of the Americans for Prosperity Foundation, which, as Mayer writes with some understatement, “has worked closely with the Tea Party since the movement’s inception”.
...
I’d like to share one more little tidbit with you, gentle reader. Let us visit Dallas, Texas, a few days before the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. John Kennedy was a hero of the Civil Rights movement, and the far right hated him. The John Birch Society, for one, was extremely upset that Kennedy had transferred Major General Edwin Walker to Hawaii for handing out right wing literature to his troops. The paramilitary Minutemen had declared the Kennedy administration as “soft on communism” and were looking at guerilla warfare tactics to deal with “uprising”. Beginning about a week before the trip, posters began appearing, with mug shots of President Kennedy, and a banner reading “Wanted for Treason”. Major General Edwin Miller is widely believed to have been behind these posters, with help from right wing groups. Including Fred C. Koch and the John Birch Society.

I am not suggesting that Fred C. Koch had something to do with President Kennedy’s assassination, although I have heard that speculated. But if you look at the posters at tea party rallies, and the birthers, and the right wing’s code words (urban, un-American, different, elitist) it all sounds a lot like what they did to Kennedy from 1962-1963. Jews, African Americans, Hispanics, women, the poor, the LGBT community, liberals, unions, socialists, communists, pacifists, Democrats. Looks fairly similar to the laundry list the Nazis had used to fill their camps, doesn’t it? It’s a disturbing legacy of hate, bigotry and incitement, and the Koch family uses their money to make sure they can continue in this legacy. Make no mistake, the Koch family has been doing this for three generations-they’re not going anywhere.
"

Edited by Myra Bronstein, 24 April 2011 - 07:58 AM.


#3 John Dolva

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 02:32 PM

afaihaveread (''destination buchenwald'', Colin Burgess) (''the face of the third reich'', J C Fest) Himmler, when appointing Karl Koch to Buchenwald, advised Ilse and Karl to marry. When Karls' monetary corruption first came under scrutiny in early 42 he was assigned to Lublin and Ilse, ''The Bitch of Buchenwald'', stayed on at B. under Piester for two years . Koch was protected by Himmler until overwhelming evidence of further corruption led to his execution in 45 (taken back to B for it). Ilse was sentenced to life in 47 (B. trials). America intervened and that led to her release in 49 and she was then rearrested and sentenced to life again in 1951 (for incitement to murder, ( she was a true sadist, infamous for her human skin lamps while at Buchenwald).

afa Fred Koch goes : a tie to the MSC : http://mdah.state.ms...ages/124951.png

#4 Myra Bronstein

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 05:01 PM

afaihaveread (''destination buchenwald'', Colin Burgess) (''the face of the third reich'', J C Fest) Himmler, when appointing Karl Koch to Buchenwald, advised Ilse and Karl to marry. When Karls' monetary corruption first came under scrutiny in early 42 he was assigned to Lublin and Ilse, ''The Bitch of Buchenwald'', stayed on at B. under Piester for two years . Koch was protected by Himmler until overwhelming evidence of further corruption led to his execution in 45 (taken back to B for it). Ilse was sentenced to life in 47 (B. trials). America intervened and that led to her release in 49 and she was then rearrested and sentenced to life again in 1951 (for incitement to murder, ( she was a true sadist, infamous for her human skin lamps while at Buchenwald).

afa Fred Koch goes : a tie to the MSC : http://mdah.state.ms...ages/124951.png


So Isle was too corrupt for the the Nazis. Gads.

Good find on the Mississippi Sovereignty Commission John.
That check was signed January 22, 1962.

September 26, 1962: Edwin walker was organizing protests against enrollment of James Meredith at Ol' Miss.
September 30, 1962: After the violent Ol' Miss riot RFK issued a warrant for Walker's arrest on charges of seditious conspiracy, insurrection & rebellion against the United States. Walker was arrested and held for psych observation for five days and claimed he was a "political prisoner" of the JFK Administration.

Another interesting blurb here giving context to the demise of Joseph McCarthy’s attacks on "Communism" and the rise of the JBS:
http://www.usmessage...e-rhetoric.html

"The John Birch Society was one of the decade’s most controversial right-wing organizations. Founded in 1958 by Robert Welch, a candy manufacturer from Massachusetts, the society took its name from a Baptist missionary and military-intelligence officer killed by Communist Chinese forces in 1945, whom Welch called the first American casualty of the Cold War. The group was founded at a propitious time. After Senator Joseph McCarthy’s fall, in 1954, many of McCarthy’s followers felt bereft of a voice, and Welch seemed to speak for them; by the mid-sixties, his society’s membership was estimated to be as high as a hundred thousand. Welch, exploiting fears of what McCarthy had called an “immense” domestic conspiracy, declared that the federal government had already fallen into the Communists’ clutches. In a tract titled “The Politician,” he attacked President Dwight D. Eisenhower as “a dedicated, conscious agent of the Communist conspiracy” who had been serving the plot “all of his adult life.” Late in 1961, after the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion, he accused the Kennedy Administration of “helping the Communists everywhere in the world while pretending to do the opposite.”

Wherever he looked, Welch saw Communist forces manipulating American economic and foreign policy."


Again I think "Communism" is often used as a code word for "Labor Union" which is anathema to the radical right which wants cheap labor, preferably slave labor.

And of course the Koch brothers David and Charles are rabid union busters:
http://blogs.forbes....-public-unions/

"Koch Brothers Behind Wisconsin Effort To Kill Public Unions
Feb. 18 2011 - 6:45 pm | 236,533 views | 10 recommendations | 443 comments
As the nation focuses on the efforts of Governor Scott Walker to take away collective bargaining rights from public employees in Wisconsin, new information is coming to light that reveals what is truly going on here.

Mother Jones is reporting that much of the funding behind the Walker for Governor campaign came from none other than uber-conservatives, the infamous Koch Brothers. What’s more, the plan to kill the unions is right out of the Koch Brothers play book.
...
Why are the Koch Brothers so interested in Wisconsin? They are a major business player in the state.
This from Think Progress:

Koch owns a coal company subsidiary with facilities in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan; six timber plants throughout the state; and a large network of pipelines in Wisconsin. While Koch controls much of the infrastructure in the state, they have laid off workers to boost profits. At a time when Koch Industries owners David and Charles Koch awarded themselves an extra $11 billion of income from the company, Koch slashed jobs at their Green Bay plant."


President Kennedy appeared to be very pro union.
He sided with the Steel Worker's Union against US Steel.
He passed Executive Order 10988 that gave most federal employees the right to unionize and bargain collectively.

http://www.pottersvi...Organized-Labor

I've been wondering why the JBS attacked Eisenhower as a "Commie" (pro labor) and found a few quotes from Eisenhower:

"Workers have a right to organize into unions and to bargain collectively with their employers. And a strong, free labor movement is an invigorating and necessary part of our industrial society."

"Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of their right to join the union of their choice."

"Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things, but their number is negligible and they are stupid."


Ah, but those JBS Tea Partiers never give up on the dream.

Edited by Myra Bronstein, 24 April 2011 - 05:06 PM.


#5 Myra Bronstein

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 05:15 PM

...
I've been wondering why the JBS attacked Eisenhower as a "Commie" (pro labor) and found a few quotes from Eisenhower:
...
"Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things, but their number is negligible and they are stupid."[/i]


Here is the longer version of one of Eisenhower's quotes:
"The quote from President Dwight D. Eisenhower cited at the head of this page is in fact an accurate one. It wasn't something he uttered (it was instead something he wrote), ...taken verbatim from a letter President Eisenhower penned to his brother, Edgar Newton Eisenhower, on 8 November 1954:

"Now it is true that I believe this country is following a dangerous trend when it permits too great a degree of centralization of governmental functions. I oppose this & in some instances the fight is a rather desperate one. But to attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything & even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon "moderation" in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.

http://www.snopes.co.../quotes/ike.asp

The full letter is here: http://www.eisenhowe...uments/1147.cfm

Edited by Myra Bronstein, 24 April 2011 - 06:21 PM.


#6 Myra Bronstein

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 05:42 PM

Great post here:

http://webcache.goog...=www.google.com

"Thread: John Birch Society Extremism Never Dies:The Fortune Behind Walker’s Union-Busting [Campaign]"

Of course the poster is ridiculed down-thread.

#7 Myra Bronstein

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:30 PM

Interesting little auction of the infamous Dallas "Wanted for Treason" poster, and write up:
http://www.liveaucti...om/item/5708828

#8 Jim Phelps

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 03:58 PM

You are on the right track.

The USAEC Intelligence Community knew exactly what happened on 11-22-1963, and in Oak Ridge the "Birchers" were the top dogs fingered on the JFK assassination that same day, and their anti-Communist NAZI linked buddies.

Just add in all the Dallas Birchers: Gen Walker (and his Gehlin Pals in Germany), Clint Merchison, and HL Hunt. Toss in Nagy helping.

Add in Guy Banister in Norleans and his connections with Nagy, Clay Shaw, and that George Mandel moved to Norleans in later years. The PERMINDEXers were helping.

Connect up Gen Walker's Congressional good ole boy in California (Rousselot) and Clay Shaw shipping all his PERMINDEX files to California to hide them from Garrision, then Reagan refusing to honor Garrison's court orders.

If you ever wondered how and who was messing with Garrison and shipping people and records off the California, then wonder no more:

http://www.larouchep..._sheridan_t.pdf



Blend in Harry Dean's insights and you'll be extremely close. That was the central NEXUS in the JFK assassination, and the games they used to cover it up and leverage LBJ and Hoover.



It is interesting to follow the Birchers, as the LDS started to back off from them in around Jan. 63, and Buckey even backed off after the JFK hit.



Perhaps even Robert Welch figured out his gang was connected to the extremes that formed the successful plot to off JFK and leverage the cover up at the highest level of Govt. Welch got on the better track in later years of fingering the Bilderburgs, Royals, Fed. Res., IRS, et al. But that was the Fascist outcome of his beating the war drums on Communism, as that empowered something even worse and the USA fell from within, not to Communism, but to the extreme right Royalists.

Just keep in mind that Rockefeller was behind the JBS and its extremes paved the way to Royalist Oligarchy.

http://www.rense.com...l39/EUSTACE.htm


http://www.seekgod.ca/rockefeller.htm

So now, the US hangs in the balance of this mess, and solving the JFK assassination becomes essential for the return of Freedom and not Fascist's control of the US.



So, all those LDS types that are supposed to be saving the US's Constitution need to get onto this central problem that they had a big hand in making and start helping fix the problems.

Edited by Jim Phelps, 15 August 2011 - 03:06 AM.


#9 David Andrews

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 05:54 PM

Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things.

The sad thing is that both parties have done this by increment since 1980, and deregulated corporations, trading, and banking to the point of our present detriment and exploitation.

It's been buried in party politics, but the impetus comes from beyond parties.

Edited by David Andrews, 15 August 2011 - 02:08 AM.


#10 Jim Phelps

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    The Ring Leaders on the JFK assassination in Dallas were the Birchers. HL Hunt and General Walker
    The JFK assassination was more than just a domestic plot, it had Foreign Elements in the Murder.

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 03:32 PM

A hot little item on how they screwed over Jim Garrison and who were the principle players and the "safety zone" provided in California by Reagan:

http://www.larouchep..._sheridan_t.pdf


====================

The "Crooks" of the Warren Commission who were conspiring with Crooked LBJ and Hoover to cover up the JFK assassination almost got away with their crime until Jim Garrison started reading the Warren Report and decided it is contrived garbage with massive holes in the logic.


The stupid and corrupt Warren Commission tried to follow the script handed to them to only find one shooter and only shooting from the TSBD, and frame the designated Patsy. This was the plot of the JBS and Minutemen, but they had back up plans to leverage against LBJ and Hoover if they failed. It would literally place the noose around LBJ's and Hoover's neck, if they failed in the slightest.

When one looks more closely, one finds the real plotters, JBS's/Minutemen were very clever to have a secondary plan in place, in case the Patsy story didn't fly. The back-up plan was that the real shots came from Dal-Tex, which hooks up Jewish Morris Jaffee, LBJ, and the USAEC. They also hooked up a Jewish anti-Communist, Weissman, in the Dallas newspaper. And the really big Jewish person with the PERMINDEX connections pulled in with Nagy of Dallas, Clay Shaw of Norleans, and on up to Mortimer Bloomfield.

Jim Garrison's investigations quickly spotted a bunch of crooks and his investigators were hot in the trail of Clay Shaw and PERMINDEX's hit squad. Then the witnesses started having odd deaths to keep them from telling the real story. Shaw moves his records to California, where Ronnie Reagan helps to conceal Shaw and PERMINDEX from Garrison's prying investigative eyes.

Then Mockingbird's NBC sicks Walter Sheridan on the Garrison Investigation, and he is busy trying to screw over Garrison from connecting the PERMINDEX hit squad to the JFK assassination. The Crook's worst nightmares on the JFK cover up by the Warren Commision had come into view, and once that happened there was only one layer between PERMINDEX and the dirty deals in Dallas with the JBS/Minutemen and putting Hoover's and LBJ's necks in the noose for conspricy to kill JFK.


The JFK assassination was never a simplistic plot and it did have various layers of the so called "Onion Skin" to peel away to get down to the real plotters and their many leveraging and diversion plans. It was an epic plot of how JBS/Minutemen insiders designed a plan to kill JFK and set up more persons than just Lee Oswald to take the fall if things closed in on them.

LHO as the Patsy was just a little part of the Patsy story the crooks fashioned to take the blame for the JFK hit. When Garrison found Clay Shaw and his Canadian Bloomfield Big Jewish/Bronfman Mafia/UK Intelligence/DISC/FBI-5/Hoover connection, Garrison cut loose the second layer of the Onion Skin due to the poorly constructed and faked up first layer being so obvious a poorly designed script.

Yet, Garrison was still one layer away from the real crooks that designed the JFK hit and hooked up the PERMINDEX gang toward their goals, as well as diversion tactics.

I think it was David Ferrie, at least his character in the JFK Movie, who first brought up the issue of the "enigma" in the JFK hit and the "onion skin" concepts, and this is those issues all peeled away into plain view of all the Crooks.

Edited by Jim Phelps, 15 August 2011 - 09:10 PM.


#11 Jim Phelps

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    The Ring Leaders on the JFK assassination in Dallas were the Birchers. HL Hunt and General Walker
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Posted 22 August 2011 - 07:13 PM

Don't forget the Koch gang is still around today, and they'll still use the same methods and techniques to gain power and control----except they change the name to something like Tea Party.


http://www.nytimes.c...ion/29rich.html

The Koch brothers’ father, Fred, was among the select group chosen to serve on the Birch Society’s top governing body. In a recorded 1963 speech that survives in a University of Michigan archive, he can be heard warning of “a takeover” of America in which Communists would “infiltrate the highest offices of government in the U.S. until the president is a Communist, unknown to the rest of us.” That rant could be delivered as is at any Tea Party rally today.


=========

Henry Makow of Canada has much to say per the Koch history:

http://www.henrymakow.com/koch.html

Fred Koch (1900-1967) was a chemical engineer who invented a new process for refining oil. Supposedly, he was shut out of the US by the Rockefellers and had to go to work for Stalin. He built many refineries in Soviet Russia and trained Russian engineers to operate them. Supposedly, he became disillusioned with Communism and became a founding member of the John Birch Society in the 1950's.

===========

Edited by Jim Phelps, 22 August 2011 - 08:09 PM.


#12 Harry J.Dean

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 11:57 PM

Don't forget the Koch gang is still around today, and they'll still use the same methods and techniques to gain power and control----except they change the name to something like Tea Party.


http://www.nytimes.c...ion/29rich.html

The Koch brothers’ father, Fred, was among the select group chosen to serve on the Birch Society’s top governing body. In a recorded 1963 speech that survives in a University of Michigan archive, he can be heard warning of “a takeover” of America in which Communists would “infiltrate the highest offices of government in the U.S. until the president is a Communist, unknown to the rest of us.” That rant could be delivered as is at any Tea Party rally today.


=========

Henry Makow of Canada has much to say per the Koch history:

http://www.henrymakow.com/koch.html

Fred Koch (1900-1967) was a chemical engineer who invented a new process for refining oil. Supposedly, he was shut out of the US by the Rockefellers and had to go to work for Stalin. He built many refineries in Soviet Russia and trained Russian engineers to operate them. Supposedly, he became disillusioned with Communism and became a founding member of the John Birch Society in the 1950's.

===========

Most of Robert Welch statements were brilliant 'reversals' in their aims. Takeover by Communists etc; was meant to be an anti-Communist takeover.
Try applying his statements in 'reverse' the brilliance will shine like a desert sun.

#13 Jim Phelps

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    The NAZI Phoenix that rose from Hitler's Germany ashes of WWII to Kill an America President:
    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread784763/pg1

    The Ring Leaders on the JFK assassination in Dallas were the Birchers. HL Hunt and General Walker
    The JFK assassination was more than just a domestic plot, it had Foreign Elements in the Murder.

    "Live Long and Prosper": Be sure to include abundant Boron minerals in your diet.

Posted 23 August 2011 - 12:24 AM

Yes, Robert Welch was pretty much owned by the Rockefeller gang that bought the candy company. Welch catered to them for funding. This is the same Rockefeller that owned Standard Oil and taught IG Farben every thing they wanted to become in Germany. Standard Oil / Rockefeller and IG Farben were just about joined at the waist as Twins, but Farben didn't go as far as price fixing.

Rockefellers and their big banking company like the corperation models to shelter profits from taxes and grow stronger than the Government and hide just who control them. Just think, IG Farben was so connected in Germany that the Farben HQ was never bombed and became General Eisenhower's Main Office in Germany.

That is pretty connected and perhaps IKE saw this as the beginning of the Mil / Ind Complex, especially as Rockefeller backed Welch started toasting IKE rear on Communism claims. It went so far as to put "Tricky Dick" in charge of getting Cuba back and killing Castro.



I do think Welch started, much later in time, to point to the correct problems being the overbearning Royalist's capitalism trying to promote themselves into Oligarchic like Fascism over the US Govt. and the American People But, by then, the extreme damage was done and JBS was infiltrated by a lot of Jewish types trying to figure out just who all set the Jewish factions up on the JFK hit. They found the Germany / NAZI connections all over the place that liked using that to get two birds with one stone.

IN the mean time, due to various factions on both sides of the hit----all the motives were covered up in the interests of big oligarchic fascist control of the US Govt. via vast wealth and rigging the elections to put in similar crooked deals to disenfranchise the American People from Govt.

The enemy for this bunch of extreme capitalists was anyone that sounded like Huey Long with making all Men Kings, or JFK's method of rising tide lifting all boats and making Black people have the same rights as the Whites.

Since they don't have the Blacks being so easy to exploit as a special disenfranchised group anymore, due to Lincoln, it has come to hold all Americans into similar exploitation as the Blacks and using the Mexican Illegals.

Currently the plan is just like that for the German Weimar Republic and running high levels of inflation to pull down the wages in the US to third world countries. Nothing really new, just more crooks totally against Heuy Long and John Kennedy's thinking. For these crooks anything less than the Govt. being run and controlled by their money power is their enemy.

So, now to become free the US is going to have to complete JFK's plan to get rid of the Fed. Res. and stop these baiting the US into wars for the big bankers Masonic schemes, and then lower the US taxes to much less.

But, more than likely the American's are too dumb to fix it and it will build to a great nuclear war. The final war needs to keep in mind the controllers are not the poor people, but those oligarchic controllers with 90 percent of the world's wealth controlled by their corperate powers-----of what IKE called this Mil/Ind Network.


Unfortunately, this Welch type effect was also put into place in the Churches to control Communism. It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to know that Leon Trotski moved to Mexico when he was run out of Russia. Then one notices all this effort to control church thinking in Mexico. They were even using it in Vietnam with Diem.

The problem is the real story of Jesus involves the Essene thinking linked to Mt. Carmel and this version of the Essene was different than the Monastic Essene of the Dead Sea Area and Jerusalem. Mt. Carmel was family oriented and Carmelites were called Nazarines. They hated the Pharisee and the Saducee and called them a bunch of snakes misleading people. The Pharisee and Saducee is basically the plan of the Oligarchics or Fascists that shot Lincoln, shot JFK, Shot MLK, Shot RFK, shot Long. The Nazarine teachings were more like Huey Long's teachings.

So, now one has to consider this church control, like the ACCC and others that seek to cover up this true version of the Christ.

This Welch like control of various groups has been in action for a long time, and even working Mexico around Leon Trotski (Lev Davidovich Bronstein (Trotsky)).


http://www.fbuch.com/leon.htm


So, when looks at Royalist's capitalism one has to include their needs to control the thinking of the masses on religion. All these Baptist missions and lots of others jumped into selling Jesus as Judeo-Christian, when that concept is likely intended to mislead the masses.

You also see the P-2 in Italy attempting to merge these two different factions in the Catholic Church and merge their wealth building concepts to encourage that buy-in.


When the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in around 1947, the opened up a real can of worms on the concepts of the Essene around Mt. Carmel. And these days, almost everything but the truth of Jesus is being presented. There was a lot of stalling in releaseing these Dead Sea Scolls, but they are being released in greater details these days.

Edited by Jim Phelps, 23 August 2011 - 01:15 AM.


#14 John Dolva

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Posted 23 August 2011 - 02:54 AM

true version of the Christ

All these Baptist missions and lots of others jumped into selling Jesus as Judeo-Christian, when that concept is likely intended to mislead the masses.

Jim, could you expand on these please?

#15 Jim Phelps

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Posted 23 August 2011 - 07:24 PM

Sure,

The real Jesus is best presented from the Essene Community at Mt. Carmel, and the close by area of Nazareth. This Nothern Group of Essene were different than the Southern group near the Dead Sea and the Essene in Jerusalem. The Nothern group was family oriented and the Southern Monastic and Male. The term "Nazarene" was used to refer to the Nothern Essene group, and was used to refer to Jesus.

The Nothern Essene, which were more in Phonecia, had their own temple, and they didn't like the Jerusalem temple for the Pharisee and Sadducee. They were so different that it would be difficult to group them together in belief. The Essene recognized the problems in the Babylon Talmud and distanced themselves from it and the Pharisee and Sadducee. While them may both be Semetic people, one religion was seen to be more pure in derivation and one more derived from the extremes of Nimrod's tyranny.

Lots of the Essene history associated with Jesus was lost long ago, perhaps as all his followers were killed. There seemed to be an exodus of the Essene from these areas as the Babylon Temple priests sought to disband this popular threat to their power and control. But in around 1947, the "Dead Sea Scrolls" brought some new light and refocus on the Essene and Jesus and his family being associated.

For the longest time, this difference had the Vatican and Rome telling that the Jerusalem Temple Jewish sect associated with the Talmud were the "Christ Killers". Most of Europe was Catholic and the Catholics even did well with Hitler and the NAZI's. But as the issues of the Ghettos and the Holocaust came into discussions after WWII, the Vaticans stance on the Jewish Jerusalem Talmud Temple was considered a large part of the cause for the Holocaust. The issue was: could the present day Jewish be responsible for the Death of Jesus so long ago. And the longer term issue was perhaps the Babylon Talmud was the problem, the issue, and it was still in vogue.

Perhaps in some attempts to lessen the religious divisions, This turned into more of a motion to join Christ with the Jerusalem Temple's beliefs, when Jesus thought of them more as the "Den of Snakes". So, long story made short, the Jerusalem Temple Talmud Jews didn't like the Essene Beliefs and they didn't like Jesus recounting those beliefs and called him a blasphemor.

To this day, lots of the Israel religion folks hate the Jesus theme and it is against the rules down there to recruit Christian Followers in Israel. Though there are many Jewish folks that do buy the Jesus story and they tend not to buy the Talmudists extremes and they are called Messianic Jewish folks. Most Jewish folks are moderate and don't get into these Orthodox Talmud extremes. But Zionism tends to buy into it more than anything.

The real story on Jesus is all about the Mystery School of Egypt, which ran counter to the Talmud. The Essene sought the higher truths and considered that the Bablyon Talmud corrupted religion by following the games of Nimrod's tyranny. The rest of the story gets on up into Revelations, where it tells of the Harlot of Babylon's beliefs seducing the Christian Church. This is the beliefs of the Babylon Talmud effects misleading the followers of Jesus. Jesus and the Christian religion were quite separate from that of Jerusalem Temple Jewish beliefs and it would be misleading to attempt to join them as similar in beliefs.

Even in Jerusalem, there was a Essene Quarter and they had their own Essene Gate, Essene bath houses and toilet facilities outside the walls. The Essene were the Guardians of the Tomb of David and the famous Upper Room for the Last Supper is located over this Tomb that was part of the Essene area. Recent excavations have found the Essene Gate and many of their outside the wall facilties.

Jesus was a fullfilment of a long running Essene belief in a Messiah and tied that to celestial events and alignment of the stars. Even Wise Men came years after Jesus Birth to see this person of the Essene Prophecy, and Kings so feared these Mt. Carmel teachings that they killed many new born folks and Jesus and Family fled to Egypt for a time and learned even more Mystery School teachings from there.

The Essene were healers of men, they believed in bringing heaven upon the Earth, and their teachings fully designed Jesus as part of their Temple's teachings and beliefs. The Essene were of the most Pious system of beliefs in that period, and rejected the Babylon Temple's teachings and likewise they to the Essene. Their differences could not be merged and tell the story correctly.

This religious division still exists to this very day. JFK appeared committed to this Peace that the Eseene wanted and often sought. JFK followed these Essene and Jesus teachings so closely, that he appeared to have been a serious student of that knowledge and how not to fall into this quest for wars that stems from those not seeking peace.

I'll dig up some links that may help explain and add them below:

http://www.essene.com/

http://www.essene.or...ent_Essenes.htm

http://mount_ecclesi...com/essenes.htm

http://mysticson.blo...nd-essenes.html

http://www.thenazareneway.com/


======

Even Edgar Cayce got into the Mt. Carmel issues:

http://www.near-deat.../origen049.html

The Incarnation as Jesus

Two years after Cayce's death in 1945, the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in Qumran. This remarkable archeological discovery revealed a large amount of information about a religious sect around the time of Jesus referred to as the Essenes and affirmed information provided by Cayce. The word "Essene" is never used in the Dead Sea Scrolls but most scholars accept that the Qumran sect was either identical or closely related to the Essenes of the classical authors such as Josephus and Pliny. According to Cayce, Jesus was an Essene along with Mary and Joseph who was affiliated with an Essene community based on Mount Carmel which was a continuation of a "school of the prophets" begun by Elijah, Elisha, Samuel, and Melchizedek. Cayce described the Essenes as an pious religious community of men and women whose purpose was to prepare the way for the coming of the Messiah. Archeology does not reveal the meaning behind the word "Essene" but Cayce mentioned that it means "expectancy." According to Josephus, the Essenes were known for divination (foretelling the future) which agrees with Cayce's descriptions of them spending their time recording experiences of "the supernatural or out of the ordinary experiences; whether in dreams, visions, voices, or what not" (1472-1). Cayce also mentioned that the Essenes were students of astrology, numerology, and reincarnation.

The Dead Sea Scrolls describe the Essenes as an authoritarian, highly disciplined community that controlled every facet of member's lives. They had to give all their money and property over to the community after a year's probation. Their theology stressed a good versus evil duality. It also describes a conflict between a "Teacher of Righteousness," a "Wicked Priest," and "the Liar." They separated themselves from the outside world in an anticipated final war between the sons of light and the sons of darkness. As for the Jesus connection to the Essenes, scholars believe the idea of Jesus being an Essene does not fit the personality and teachings of Jesus despite the many interesting similarities between Jesus and the Qumran community. For example, scholars believe the Essenes wouldn't have approved of Jesus' bending of the moral standards such as associating himself with prostitutes and tax collectors. It is also believed that John the Baptist was an Essene because of the similarities between himself and the Essene community.

According to Cayce, Jesus' mother Mary was chosen by the Essenes at the age of four to begin intensive spiritual training lasting three years in preparation for the conception of the Messiah. Her election as the mother of the Messiah occurs during a special ceremony in the temple at Mount Carmel in which an angel leads her by the hand to the altar. Remarkably, this Cayce reading agrees with an apocryphal book entitled the Infancy Gospel of James where Mary is presented to the Lord at the age of three when her father Joachim "set her on the third step of the altar, and the Lord God gave grace to her ... and she received food from the hand of an angel." (325) Cayce and the Infancy Gospel of James agree that Joseph was chosen to be Mary's husband by lot. They also agree that Joseph was much older than Mary. Cayce gives their ages at the time of their marriage as thirty-six and sixteen, respectively. Cayce and the Infancy Gospel of James agree that Jesus was born in a cave.

=========

The Essene Gate in Jerusalem:

http://www.centuryone.org/essene.html

=========

The Essene ruins at Mt. Carmel:

http://www.essene.co...Essene Life.htm

========

Edited by Jim Phelps, 23 August 2011 - 08:59 PM.





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