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Ruth Paine's Station Wagon


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#1 Mark Carter

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Posted 28 April 2006 - 10:44 AM

One of the most bizzare instances during John Kennedy's assassination was the testimony of Dallas Police detective Roger Craig while he was examining a bullet mark on the pavement near the triple underpass. While over by the underpass he witnessed a cream colored Nash Station wagon with a luggage rack moving down the street very slowly when he saw a man who he later claimed was Lee Harvey Oswald enter the passenger side of the vehicle and drive off. His exact words are.


Mr. CRAIG - I saw a light-colored station wagon, driving real slow, coming west on Elm Street from Houston. Uh-- actually, it was nearly in line with him. And the driver was leaning to his right looking up the hill at the man running down.
Mr. BELIN - Uh-huh.
Mr. CRAIG - And the station wagon stopped almost directly across from me. And--uh--the man continued down the hill and got in the station wagon. And I attempted to cross the street. I wanted to talk to both of them. But the---uh--traffic was so heavy I couldn't get across the street. And--uh--they were gone before I could---
Mr. BELIN - Where did the station wagon head?
Mr. CRAIG - West on Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN - Under the triple underpass?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Could you describe the man that you saw running down toward the station wagon?
Mr. CRAIG - Oh, he was a white male in his twenties, five nine, five eight, something like that; about 140 to 150; had kind of medium brown sandy hair--you know, it was like it'd been blown--you know, he'd been in the wind or something--it was all wild-looking; had on--uh--blue trousers--
Mr. BELIN - What shade of blue? Dark blue, medium or light?
Mr. CRAIG - No; medium, probably; I'd say medium. And, a--uh--light tan shirt, as I remember it.
Mr. BELIN - Anything else about him?
Mr. CRAIG - No; nothing except that he looked like he was in an awful hurry.


Then later in his testimony Det. Craig describes the car.

Mr. BELIN - What kind and what color station wagon was it?
Mr. CRAIG - It was light colored--almost--uh--it looked white to me.
Mr. BELIN - What model or make was it?
Mr. CRAIG - I thought it was a Nash.
Mr. BELIN - Why would you think it was a Nash?
Mr. CRAIG - Because it had a built-in luggage rack on 'the top. And--uh--at the time, this was the only type car I could fit with that type luggage rack.
Mr. BELIN - A Nash Rambler-is that what you're referring to?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes; with a rack on the the back portion of the car, you know.
Mr. BELIN - Did it have a Texas license plate, or not?
Mr. CRAIG - It had the same color. I couldn't see the--uh--name with the numbers on it. I could just barely make them out. They were at an angle where I couldn't make the numbers of the--uh--any of the writing on it. But---uh---I'm sure it was a Texas plate.
Mr. BELIN - Anything else about this incident that you can recall?
Mr. CRAIG - No; not that---

Then later at the Police Station after Lee Harvey Oswald's arrest Det. Craig identifies Oswald as the same person that he saw entering the Station Wagon in Dealy Plaza earlier.



Mr. CRAIG - I drove up to Fritz' office about, oh, after 5--about 5:30 or something like that--and--uh--talked to Captain Fritz and told him what I had saw. And he took me in his office---I believe it was his office---it was a little office, and had the suspect setting in a chair behind a desk---beside the desk. And another gentleman, I didn't know him, he was sitting in another chair to my left as I walked in the office.
And Captain Fritz asked me was this the man I saw--and I said, "Yes," it was.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Will you describe the man you saw in Captain Fritz' office?
Mr. CRAIG - Oh, he was sitting down but--uh--he had the same medium brown hair; it was still--well, it was kinda wild looking; he was slender, and--uh-- what 1 could toll of him sitting there, he was--uh---short. By that, I mean not--myself, I'm five eleven--he was shorter than I was. And--uh--fairly light build.
Mr. BELIN - Could you see his trousers?
Mr. CRAIG - No; I couldn't see his trousers at all.
Mr. BELIN - What about his shirt?
Mr. CRAIG - I believe, as close as I can remember, a T-shirt--a white T-shirt.
Mr. BELIN - All right. But you didn't see him in a lineup? You just saw him sitting there?
Mr. CRAIG - No; he was sitting there by himself in a chair--off to one side.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Then, what did Captain Fritz say and what did you say and what did the suspect say?
Mr. CRAIG - Captain Fritz then asked him about the---uh---he said, "What about this station wagon?"
And the suspect interrupted him and said, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine"---I believe is what he said. "Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."
And--uh--Captain Fritz then told him, as close as I can remember, that, "All we're trying to do is find out what happened, and this man saw you leave from the scene."
And the suspect again interrupted Captain Fritz and said, "I told you people I did." And--uh--yeah--then, he said--then he continued and he said, "Everybody will know who I am now."
And he was leaning over the desk. At this time, he had risen partially out of the chair and leaning over the desk, looking directly at Captain Fritz.
Mr. BELIN - What was he wearing-or could you see the color of his trousers as he leaned over the desk?
Mr. CRAIG - No; because he never--he just leaned up, you know, sort of forward--not actually up, just out of his chair like that (indicating) forward.
Mr. BELIN - Then, did you say anything more?
Mr. CRAIG - No; I then left.
Mr. BELIN - Well, in other words, the only thing you ever said was, "This was the man,"--or words to that effect?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes.


So later on Det. Craig describes how Buddy Walters went to Ruth Paine's house and saw the station wagon parked in Ruth Paines driveway.




Mr. BELIN - Anything else in connection with the assassination that you think might be important that we haven't discussed here?
Mr. CRAIG - No; except--uh--except for the fact that it came out later that Mrs. Paine does own a station wagon and--uh--it has a luggage rack on top. And this came out, of course, later, after I got back to the office. I didn't know about this. Buddy Walthers brought it up. I believe they went by the house and the car was parked in the driveway.


Where things start getting real strange is where Buddy Walters after going to Ruth Paine's home describes this encounter.


Mr. WALTHERS. Yes; and I took our officer, Harry Weatherford, and we met Officer Adamcik that works for the city and Officer Rose and another one of their officers, but I don't recall his name right now--at this address in Irving and when we went to the door, what turned out to be Mrs. Paine just as soon as we stepped on the porch, she said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you, and we didn't have any trouble at all--we just went right on in and stared asking her--at that time it didn't appear that her or Mrs. Oswald, or Marina, who came up carrying one of the babies in the living room--it didn't appear that they knew that Oswald had been arrested at all--the way they talked.
Mr. LIEBELER. How do you account for the fact that Mrs. Paine said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you?"
Mr. WALTHERS. I don't know--to this day, I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you sure that's what she said?
Mr. WALTHERS. I know that's what she said.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Paine said that?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes, sir; she said, "Come on in, we have been expecting you."


So what is going on here? Why would she say that if she didn't know that Lee Harvey Oswald had been arrested yet? The information about Oswald being arrested had not even been on television so far at that point. If somebody called Ruth Paine maybe a little bit earlier and told her about the assassination . It still doesn't explain why she was pretending that she didn't know about it as Walters describes above? What is equally strange is when Det. Adamchick( who was there also) describes how Linnie Mae Randle shows up right on cue with the "curtain rod" story to make sure that "all" the police detectives could hear about it!



Mr. ADAMCIK. Coming back, Mrs. Frazier, I believe it was, drove up to the house as I was coming back with--no, it was Mrs. Bill Randle. She (Mrs. Randle) was a neighbor there and she was driving up to the house, so I asked her whether she knew anything about what had happened, and whether she had seen Lee Oswald, and she did tell me that Lee Oswald rode to work with her brother, which is Wesley Frazier, who was staying with her, and he rode to work with him that morning. She told me that she saw--she was up early in the morning and was drinking coffee, and saw Lee Harvey Oswald go across the front yard, across the yard carrying like a long package wrapped in something, carrying it from the Paine house to Wesley's car.
Mr. BELIN. Did she say how he was carrying the package?
Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she didn't. I think we got an affidavit. In fact, I know we did, but I didn't take it.
Mr. BELIN. Did she say about how long the package was?
Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she said it was long and wrapped in a paper or a box. That is all I remember her saying.


It seems that we have a little problem here in river city. What is going on here? Well when Wesley Frazier testified to the Commission he told them that people in this neighborhood kind of keep to themselves. They don't associate much!

Their is another small problem with Linnie Mae Randle's account of the events mentioned above. She says that she saw Oswald walk across her yard but the next day she told the FBI.

RANDLE stated that about 7:15 a.m., November 22, 1963, she looked out of a window of her residence and observed LEE HARVEY OSWALD walking up her driveway and saw him put a long brown package, approximately 3 feet by 6 inches, in the back seat area of WESLEY FRAZIER's 1954 black Chevrolet four door automobile. Thereafter, she observed OSWALD walk to the front, or entrance area, of her residence where he waited for FRAZIER to come out of the house and give him a ride to work.

WHICH ONE IS IT? WALKING ACROSS HER YARD OR WALKING UP HER DRIVEWAY?

Another problem in Linnie Mae Randal's account appears when Westly Frazier testifies before the Commission that he and his mother saw Oswald just appear in the window.

Mr. FRAZIER - I was sitting there eating my breakfast there, so sitting there, I usually talk to my little nieces, you know, they have them cartoons on for a while and we usually talk a little bit back and forth while eating breakfast and I was just finishing my coffee there and my sister, you know, was working over there around, you know the sink there, and she was fixing my lunch so she was somewhere around there over on the cabinets fixing the cabinets and mother just happened to glance up and saw this man, you know, who was Lee looking in the window for me and she said, "Who is that?"
And I said, "That is Lee," and naturally he just walked around and so I thought he just walked around there on the carport right there close to the door and so I told her I had to go, so I went in there and brushed my teeth right quick and come through there and I usually have my coat laying somewhere on the chair and picked it up and put it on and by that time my sister had my lunch, you know, in a sack and sitting over there on the washer where I picked it up right there by the door and I just walked on out and we got in the car.

So according to Frazier Linnie May Randle just happened to "glance up" as Oswald just happened to appear in the window! So she never saw him walk across her yard or up her driveway did she? She was sitting at the table having breakfast with her son. Frazier also testified to the Commission that Oswald did not take any lunch that day but when they got to the Texas School Book Depositoy building he saw Oswald walk in the building with a package of "curtain rods" but when Jack Dougherty saw Oswald enter the building he said that Oswald was carrying nothing in his hands! So where were the curtain rods?

This whole thing sounds a little shakey to me?

#2 Antti Hynonen

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Posted 28 April 2006 - 11:58 AM

Mark Carter Posted Today, 09:44 AM
One of the most bizzare instances during John Kennedy's assassination was the testimony of Dallas Police detective Roger Craig while he was examining a bullet mark on the pavement near the triple underpass. While over by the underpass he witnessed a cream colored Nash Station wagon with a luggage rack moving down the street very slowly when he saw a man who he later claimed was Lee Harvey Oswald enter the passenger side of the vehicle and drive off. His exact words are.

-----

Where things start getting real strange is where Buddy Walters after going to Ruth Paine's home describes this encounter.


Mr. WALTHERS. Yes; and I took our officer, Harry Weatherford, and we met Officer Adamcik that works for the city and Officer Rose and another one of their officers, but I don't recall his name right now--at this address in Irving and when we went to the door, what turned out to be Mrs. Paine just as soon as we stepped on the porch, she said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you, and we didn't have any trouble at all--we just went right on in and stared asking her--at that time it didn't appear that her or Mrs. Oswald, or Marina, who came up carrying one of the babies in the living room--it didn't appear that they knew that Oswald had been arrested at all--the way they talked.
Mr. LIEBELER. How do you account for the fact that Mrs. Paine said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you?"
Mr. WALTHERS. I don't know--to this day, I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you sure that's what she said?
Mr. WALTHERS. I know that's what she said.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Paine said that?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes, sir; she said, "Come on in, we have been expecting you."


So what is going on here? Why would she say that if she didn't know that Lee Harvey Oswald had been arrested yet? The information about Oswald being arrested had not even been on television so far at that point. If somebody called Ruth Paine maybe a little bit earlier and told her about the assassination . It still doesn't explain why she was pretending that she didn't know about it as Walters describes above? What is equally strange is when Det. Adamchick( who was there also) describes how Linnie Mae Randle shows up right on cue with the "curtain rod" story to make sure that "all" the police detectives could hear about it!


The motorcade was broadcast on radio, live. The shooting and the TSBD was mentioned immediately following this. According to the Paine's, the mentioning of the TSBD as a landmark near the location of the shooting caused them to immediately think of Lee Oswald. An arrest was announced later as well I believe...

Quote continued:

Their is another small problem with Linnie Mae Randle's account of the events mentioned above. She says that she saw Oswald walk across her yard but the next day she told the FBI.

RANDLE stated that about 7:15 a.m., November 22, 1963, she looked out of a window of her residence and observed LEE HARVEY OSWALD walking up her driveway and saw him put a long brown package, approximately 3 feet by 6 inches, in the back seat area of WESLEY FRAZIER's 1954 black Chevrolet four door automobile. Thereafter, she observed OSWALD walk to the front, or entrance area, of her residence where he waited for FRAZIER to come out of the house and give him a ride to work.

WHICH ONE IS IT? WALKING ACROSS HER YARD OR WALKING UP HER DRIVEWAY?

Another problem in Linnie Mae Randal's account appears when Westly Frazier testifies before the Commission that he and his mother saw Oswald just appear in the window.

Mr. FRAZIER - I was sitting there eating my breakfast there, so sitting there, I usually talk to my little nieces, you know, they have them cartoons on for a while and we usually talk a little bit back and forth while eating breakfast and I was just finishing my coffee there and my sister, you know, was working over there around, you know the sink there, and she was fixing my lunch so she was somewhere around there over on the cabinets fixing the cabinets and mother just happened to glance up and saw this man, you know, who was Lee looking in the window for me and she said, "Who is that?"
And I said, "That is Lee," and naturally he just walked around and so I thought he just walked around there on the carport right there close to the door and so I told her I had to go, so I went in there and brushed my teeth right quick and come through there and I usually have my coat laying somewhere on the chair and picked it up and put it on and by that time my sister had my lunch, you know, in a sack and sitting over there on the washer where I picked it up right there by the door and I just walked on out and we got in the car.

So according to Frazier Linnie May Randle just happened to "glance up" as Oswald just happened to appear in the window! So she never saw him walk across her yard or up her driveway did she? She was sitting at the table having breakfast with her son. Frazier also testified to the Commission that Oswald did not take any lunch that day but when they got to the Texas School Book Depositoy building he saw Oswald walk in the building with a package of "curtain rods" but when Jack Dougherty saw Oswald enter the building he said that Oswald was carrying nothing in his hands! So where were the curtain rods?



Note! Frazier says "mother just happened to glance up..." not his sister Linnie Mae, who, in turn was " and my sister, you know, was working over there around, you know the sink there".

Nevertheless, there's a lot of odd testimony and ridiculous coincidences in this case.

Edited by Antti Hynonen, 28 April 2006 - 12:05 PM.


#3 Greg Parker

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Posted 28 April 2006 - 02:49 PM

The motorcade was broadcast on radio, live. The shooting and the TSBD was mentioned immediately following this. According to the Paine's, the mentioning of the TSBD as a landmark near the location of the shooting caused them to immediately think of Lee Oswald. An arrest was announced later as well I believe... - Antti


One problem there, Antti... Ruth paine also testified that she believed Oswald worked at the other warehouse.

Mr. JENNER - I heard you mention the Texas School Depository warehouse Did you think the warehouse was at 411 Elm?
Mrs. PAINE - No. I had seen a sign on a building as I went along one of the limited access highways that leads into Dallas, saying "Texas School Book Depository Warehouse" and there was the only building that had registered on my consciousness as being Texas School Book Depository.
I was not aware, hadn't taken in the idea of there being two buildings and that there was one on Elm, though, I copied the address from the telephone book, and could well have made that notation in my mind but I didn't.
The first I realized that there was a building on Elm was when I heard on the television on the morning of the 22d of November that a shot had been fired from such a building.
Mr. JENNER - For the purpose of this record then I would like to emphasize you were under the impression then, were you, that Lee Harvey Oswald was employed?
Mrs. PAINE - At the warehouse.
Mr. JENNER - Other than at 411, a place at 411 Elm?
Mrs. PAINE - I thought he worked at the warehouse. I had in fact, pointed out the building to my children going into Dallas later after he had gained employment.
Mr. JENNER - Did you ever discuss with Lee Harvey Oswald where he actually was employed, that is the location of the building?
Mrs. PAINE - No; I didn't.
Mr. JENNER - Did he ever mention it?
Mrs. PAINE - No.


She therefore had no reason on the face of it to expect the police to come a-calling.

RP also claimed that Mrs Randle had told her that her brother, Wesley, thought they had a vacancy at the TSBD.

Mrs. PAINE - And the subject of his looking for work and that he hadn't found work for a week, came up while we were having coffee, the four young mothers at Mrs. Roberts' house, and Mrs. Randle mentioned that her younger brother, Wesley Frazier thought they needed another person at the Texas School Book Depository where Wesley worked.

Randle however, was having none of the blame, and denied outright she made any such remark.

Mr. Ball.
Was there some conversation at that time about her husband Lee Oswald?
Mrs. Randle.
Well, they had--it was just general knowledge in the neighborhood that he didn't have a job and she was expecting a baby. Of course. I didn't know where he was or anything. And of course you know just being neighborly and everything, we felt sorry for Marina because her baby was due right away as we understood it, and he didn't have any work, so they said, so it was just--
Mr. Ball.
Mrs. Paine told you that Lee didn't have any work?
Mrs. Randle.
Well, I suppose. It was just in conversation.
Mr. Ball.
Marina didn't take part in the conversation?
Mrs. Randle.
No. She couldn't. So far as I know, she couldn't speak.
Mr. Ball.
You and Mrs. Roberts and Mrs. Paine talked about it?
Mrs. Randle.
Yes.
Mr. Ball.
Was there anything said then about the Texas School Book Depository as a place he might get a job?
Mrs. Randle.
Well, we didn't say that he might get a job, because I didn't know there was a job open. The reason that we were being helpful, Wesley had just looked for a job, and I had helped him to try to find one. We listed several places that he might go to look for work. When you live in a place you know some places that someone with, you know, not very much of an education can find work.
So, it was among one of the places that we mentioned. We mentioned several others, and Mrs. Paine said that well, he couldn't apply for any of the jobs that would require driving because he couldn't drive, and it was just in conversation that you might talk just any day and not think a thing on earth about it. In fact, I didn't even know that he had even tried any place that we mentioned.
Mr. Ball.
What were some of the other places mentioned?
Mrs. Randle.
Well, I remember two of them. Mrs. Roberts entered into the conversation and, of course, she is more familiar with the place than I am. It was Manor Bakeries which was a home delivery service.
Then there was this Texas Gypsum which makes sheet rock and things like that, and we mentioned because Wesley had tried those places that I mentioned those.
Mr. Ball.
And then you also mentioned the Texas Book Depository?
Mrs. Randle.
Well, I didn't know there was a job opening over there.
Mr. Ball.
But did you mention it?
Mrs. Randle.
But we said he might try over there. There might be work over there because it was the busy season but I didn't have any previous knowledge that there was any job opening.


The mention by Randle that it was the "busy season" however, was not apparently true. Bonnie Ray Williams testified the floor laying was only done to keep people in work so they wouldn't have to belaid off until it got busy again...

Note! Frazier says "mother just happened to glance up..." not his sister Linnie Mae, who, in turn was " and my sister, you know, was working over there around, you know the sink there".

Nevertheless, there's a lot of odd testimony and ridiculous coincidences in this case.
-Antti


Ahh yes. Mum. Essie May Williams whose husband was ill in hospital.

Probably another of those confounded coincidents- in fact, almost sure that's all it is - but Essie May Williams just happens to be the name of Strom Thurmond's daughter to an African-American woman. Both Essie's were around the same age. One had a seriously ill husband in late '63... the other became a widow in '64.

Anyhow... just thought I'd throw that in in case there are any genealogy students out there...

To Mark... you don't appear to be taking much notice of the info you're being given, but I'll try one more time- the Hyde clan had no communists in it's closet or under it's bed. It did have members who worked for orgs directly linked to the CIA.

Michael Paine was not a Quaker. He joined the Unitarian Church - which had Birchers among the flock. You know what they say about birds of a feather?

#4 William Kelly

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Posted 28 April 2006 - 03:53 PM

Mark,

The Paines owned a number of cars, including a station wagon, but not a Nash Rambler.

BK

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Posted 28 April 2006 - 05:31 PM

Hi Greg et al,

The whole Paine(s) milieu - including W.C. testimony - remains mysterious, murky, inconsistent to say the least, but nonetheless fascinating (I've got some material on bloodlines, unavailable at this moment, that I hope to cite before this thread is bare).

Regarding the following excerpt from your lifted W.C. material, there is something telling if not instructive (perhaps even Freudian) about Ruth Paine's "[/u] of the twenty second" utterance. It's reminiscient of Dubya's recollection, if you'll pardon the expression, of how he had seen the first of the WTC attacks:

"The first I realized that there was a building on Elm was when I heard on the television on the morning (emphasis added) of the 22d of November that a shot had been fired from such a building."


Then,

Mrs. PAINE - "And the subject of his looking for work and that he hadn't found work for a week, came up while we were having coffee, [b]the four young mothers at Mrs. Roberts' house
[u], and Mrs. Randle mentioned that her younger brother, Wesley Frazier thought they needed another person at the Texas School Book Depository where Wesley worked."

Damn, every time I read this woman's testimony there seems to be more and more fertile ground. Who are these desperate Oak Cliff housewives, these "four young mothers at Mrs. Roberts' house?" It's easy for me to sit here and let others provide the good stuff, but maybe we can start a thread on this. There are, at least on the surface, all kinds of scabs worthy of scratching. What they truly are and what it all means could prove to be very important. Hope someone can shed some light. This is great forum fodder today.

Thank You,
JG

Edited by John Gillespie, 28 April 2006 - 08:49 PM.


#6 Antti Hynonen

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 09:05 AM

John Gillespie Posted Apr 28 2006, 04:31 PM
Hi Greg et al,

The whole Paine(s) milieu - including W.C. testimony - remains mysterious, murky, inconsistent to say the least, but nonetheless fascinating (I've got some material on bloodlines, unavailable at this moment, that I hope to cite before this thread is bare).

Regarding the following excerpt from your lifted W.C. material, there is something telling if not instructive (perhaps even Freudian) about Ruth Paine's "[/u] of the twenty second" utterance. It's reminiscient of Dubya's recollection, if you'll pardon the expression, of how he had seen the first of the WTC attacks:

"The first I realized that there was a building on Elm was when I heard on the television on the morning (emphasis added) of the 22d of November that a shot had been fired from such a building."


Then,

Mrs. PAINE - "And the subject of his looking for work and that he hadn't found work for a week, came up while we were having coffee, [b]the four young mothers at Mrs. Roberts' house[u], and Mrs. Randle mentioned that her younger brother, Wesley Frazier thought they needed another person at the Texas School Book Depository where Wesley worked."

Damn, every time I read this woman's testimony there seems to be more and more fertile ground. Who are these desperate Oak Cliff housewives, these "four young mothers at Mrs. Roberts' house?" It's easy for me to sit here and let others provide the good stuff, but maybe we can start a thread on this. There are, at least on the surface, all kinds of scabs worthy of scratching. What they truly are and what it all means could prove to be very important. Hope someone can shed some light. This is great forum fodder today.

Thank You,
JG


John, I believe this episode took place in Irving TX, a suburb of Dallas, some 10-15 miles away from Oak Cliff.

Greg Parker Posted Apr 28 2006, 01:49 PM


QUOTE
The motorcade was broadcast on radio, live. The shooting and the TSBD was mentioned immediately following this. According to the Paine's, the mentioning of the TSBD as a landmark near the location of the shooting caused them to immediately think of Lee Oswald. An arrest was announced later as well I believe... - Antti


One problem there, Antti... Ruth paine also testified that she believed Oswald worked at the other warehouse.

Mr. JENNER - I heard you mention the Texas School Depository warehouse Did you think the warehouse was at 411 Elm?
Mrs. PAINE - No. I had seen a sign on a building as I went along one of the limited access highways that leads into Dallas, saying "Texas School Book Depository Warehouse" and there was the only building that had registered on my consciousness as being Texas School Book Depository.
I was not aware, hadn't taken in the idea of there being two buildings and that there was one on Elm, though, I copied the address from the telephone book, and could well have made that notation in my mind but I didn't.
The first I realized that there was a building on Elm was when I heard on the television on the morning of the 22d of November that a shot had been fired from such a building.
Mr. JENNER - For the purpose of this record then I would like to emphasize you were under the impression then, were you, that Lee Harvey Oswald was employed?
Mrs. PAINE - At the warehouse.
Mr. JENNER - Other than at 411, a place at 411 Elm?
Mrs. PAINE - I thought he worked at the warehouse. I had in fact, pointed out the building to my children going into Dallas later after he had gained employment.


Yes Greg, this is a good point. However, I just wanted to relay how the Paine's explained how they made the connection between the motorcade broadcast and Lee. But, yes, this is a fairly weak link.... since Ruthie didn't know if Lee worked at the other warehouse or at the actual TSBD.

#7 Robert Howard

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 01:13 PM

John Gillespie Posted Apr 28 2006, 04:31 PM
Hi Greg et al,

The whole Paine(s) milieu - including W.C. testimony - remains mysterious, murky, inconsistent to say the least, but nonetheless fascinating (I've got some material on bloodlines, unavailable at this moment, that I hope to cite before this thread is bare).

Regarding the following excerpt from your lifted W.C. material, there is something telling if not instructive (perhaps even Freudian) about Ruth Paine's "[/u] of the twenty second" utterance. It's reminiscient of Dubya's recollection, if you'll pardon the expression, of how he had seen the first of the WTC attacks:

"The first I realized that there was a building on Elm was when I heard on the television on the morning (emphasis added) of the 22d of November that a shot had been fired from such a building."


Then,

Mrs. PAINE - "And the subject of his looking for work and that he hadn't found work for a week, came up while we were having coffee, [b]the four young mothers at Mrs. Roberts' house[u], and Mrs. Randle mentioned that her younger brother, Wesley Frazier thought they needed another person at the Texas School Book Depository where Wesley worked."

Damn, every time I read this woman's testimony there seems to be more and more fertile ground. Who are these desperate Oak Cliff housewives, these "four young mothers at Mrs. Roberts' house?" It's easy for me to sit here and let others provide the good stuff, but maybe we can start a thread on this. There are, at least on the surface, all kinds of scabs worthy of scratching. What they truly are and what it all means could prove to be very important. Hope someone can shed some light. This is great forum fodder today.

Thank You,
JG


John, I believe this episode took place in Irving TX, a suburb of Dallas, some 10-15 miles away from Oak Cliff.

Greg Parker Posted Apr 28 2006, 01:49 PM


QUOTE
The motorcade was broadcast on radio, live. The shooting and the TSBD was mentioned immediately following this. According to the Paine's, the mentioning of the TSBD as a landmark near the location of the shooting caused them to immediately think of Lee Oswald. An arrest was announced later as well I believe... - Antti


One problem there, Antti... Ruth paine also testified that she believed Oswald worked at the other warehouse.

Mr. JENNER - I heard you mention the Texas School Depository warehouse Did you think the warehouse was at 411 Elm?
Mrs. PAINE - No. I had seen a sign on a building as I went along one of the limited access highways that leads into Dallas, saying "Texas School Book Depository Warehouse" and there was the only building that had registered on my consciousness as being Texas School Book Depository.
I was not aware, hadn't taken in the idea of there being two buildings and that there was one on Elm, though, I copied the address from the telephone book, and could well have made that notation in my mind but I didn't.
The first I realized that there was a building on Elm was when I heard on the television on the morning of the 22d of November that a shot had been fired from such a building.
Mr. JENNER - For the purpose of this record then I would like to emphasize you were under the impression then, were you, that Lee Harvey Oswald was employed?
Mrs. PAINE - At the warehouse.
Mr. JENNER - Other than at 411, a place at 411 Elm?
Mrs. PAINE - I thought he worked at the warehouse. I had in fact, pointed out the building to my children going into Dallas later after he had gained employment.


Yes Greg, this is a good point. However, I just wanted to relay how the Paine's explained how they made the connection between the motorcade broadcast and Lee. But, yes, this is a fairly weak link.... since Ruthie didn't know if Lee worked at the other warehouse or at the actual TSBD.

I have lived in Dallas my entire life, and yet I am not familiar with the location of the 'other warehouse that Ruth Paine references, in her WC Testimony and in her recollections in other media. Does anyone have an address for the Texas Schoolbook Depository Warehouse, (not the one) on Elm St. Was it on Harry Hines Blvd.?

#8 Duke Lane

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 04:49 PM

I have lived in Dallas my entire life, and yet I am not familiar with the location of the 'other warehouse that Ruth Paine references, in her WC Testimony and in her recollections in other media. Does anyone have an address for the Texas Schoolbook Depository Warehouse, (not the one) on Elm St. Was it on Harry Hines Blvd.?

Robert, it's not there anymore, but the warehouse was located at 1917 N Houston. See CE1381 among other references. It was only about a block away (if that) since, in 1963 and until construction had been completed on Houston Street in 1964, Houston curved into Ross beginning at Pacific, which is the street one block north of Elm (Ross is two streets north).

There was (is?) a building north on Central Expressway, I think, on the west side of the highway where you could (can?) clearly read "Texas Schoolbook Depository" as you travel. I haven't seen it in a while, so couldn't tell you if it's there still. At least, that's where I recall it having been.

#9 Robert Howard

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 07:43 PM


I have lived in Dallas my entire life, and yet I am not familiar with the location of the 'other warehouse that Ruth Paine references, in her WC Testimony and in her recollections in other media. Does anyone have an address for the Texas Schoolbook Depository Warehouse, (not the one) on Elm St. Was it on Harry Hines Blvd.?

Robert, it's not there anymore, but the warehouse was located at 1917 N Houston. See CE1381 among other references. It was only about a block away (if that) since, in 1963 and until construction had been completed on Houston Street in 1964, Houston curved into Ross beginning at Pacific, which is the street one block north of Elm (Ross is two streets north).

There was (is?) a building north on Central Expressway, I think, on the west side of the highway where you could (can?) clearly read "Texas Schoolbook Depository" as you travel. I haven't seen it in a while, so couldn't tell you if it's there still. At least, that's where I recall it having been.

Thanks for the information, one can get lost in the WC Hearings and Exhibit's, it's hard to know every nook and cranny. BTW, I have been looking through the 1444 documents, would you happen to know if the Waggoner Carr Collection contains any corresponding info on the 'Oswald Phone Call's matter,?' I've read Walt Brown's article in the April 2006 DPQ and feel he brings up some interesting points.

Edited by Robert Howard, 01 May 2006 - 07:47 PM.


#10 Duke Lane

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 07:05 AM

I have lived in Dallas my entire life, and yet I am not familiar with the location of the 'other warehouse that Ruth Paine references, in her WC Testimony and in her recollections in other media. Does anyone have an address for the Texas Schoolbook Depository Warehouse, (not the one) on Elm St. Was it on Harry Hines Blvd.?

Robert, it's not there anymore, but the warehouse was located at 1917 N Houston. See CE1381 among other references. It was only about a block away (if that) since, in 1963 and until construction had been completed on Houston Street in 1964, Houston curved into Ross beginning at Pacific, which is the street one block north of Elm (Ross is two streets north).

There was (is?) a building north on Central Expressway, I think, on the west side of the highway where you could (can?) clearly read "Texas Schoolbook Depository" as you travel. I haven't seen it in a while, so couldn't tell you if it's there still. At least, that's where I recall it having been.

Thanks for the information, one can get lost in the WC Hearings and Exhibit's, it's hard to know every nook and cranny. BTW, I have been looking through the 1444 documents, would you happen to know if the Waggoner Carr Collection contains any corresponding info on the 'Oswald Phone Call's matter,?' I've read Walt Brown's article in the April 2006 DPQ and feel he brings up some interesting points.

I've been corrected - somewhat, anyway - by another local who's been here longer than I, who said that prior to 1963 (a few days after the assassination), Houston and Ross did not intersect at all.

My observation was based on a WC document (introduced in Worrell's testimony, I forget the number, but maybe 369 or something like that?) that shows Ross curving into Houston and joining it at what might be called a "K" intersection at Pacific with Houston continuing north; a 1962 and 1967 Dallas Transit Company map showing the curve, but Houston NOT continuing north (just merging with Ross and turning east); and a 1963 Mapsco that shows Houston going north to intersect at right angles with Ross a block north of Pacific and continuing on to McKinney Ave, pretty much as it all does today. The latter two I obtained recently at the downtown main Dallas Library. I have no way of knowing with certainty which is correct since I didn't get here until the late '80s.

#11 Trygve V. Jensen

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 09:22 AM

Resurrecting an old thread. There are so many threads concerning the Paines, and if it have been discussed further whether or not Mrs. Paine knew where Oswald was working,in a later thread, I would appreciate a point of direction towards it.

I can't see how Mrs.Paine was telling the truth;

One problem there, Antti... Ruth paine also testified that she believed Oswald worked at the other warehouse.

Mr. JENNER - I heard you mention the Texas School Depository warehouse Did you think the warehouse was at 411 Elm?
Mrs. PAINE - No. I had seen a sign on a building as I went along one of the limited access highways that leads into Dallas, saying "Texas School Book Depository Warehouse" and there was the only building that had registered on my consciousness as being Texas School Book Depository.
I was not aware, hadn't taken in the idea of there being two buildings and that there was one on Elm, though, I copied the address from the telephone book, and could well have made that notation in my mind but I didn't.
The first I realized that there was a building on Elm was when I heard on the television on the morning of the 22d of November that a shot had been fired from such a building.
Mr. JENNER - For the purpose of this record then I would like to emphasize you were under the impression then, were you, that Lee Harvey Oswald was employed?
Mrs. PAINE - At the warehouse.
Mr. JENNER - Other than at 411, a place at 411 Elm?
Mrs. PAINE - I thought he worked at the warehouse. I had in fact, pointed out the building to my children going into Dallas later after he had gained employment.



Yes Greg, this is a good point. However, I just wanted to relay how the Paine's explained how they made the connection between the motorcade broadcast and Lee. But, yes, this is a fairly weak link.... since Ruthie didn't know if Lee worked at the other warehouse or at the actual TSBD

if this is what transpired at November 1st in Hosty's interview with her:

* * * readily admitted that Mrs. Marina Oswald and Lee Oswald's two children were staying with her. She said that Lee Oswald was living somewhere in Dallas. She didn't know where. She said it was in the Oak Cliff area but she didn't have his address.

I asked her if she knew where he worked. After a moment's hesitation, she told me that he worked at the Texas School Book Depository near the downtown area of Dallas. She didn't have the exact address, and it is my recollection that we went to the phone book and looked it up, found it to be 411 Elm Street.107

http://historymatter...eport_0231b.htm


Did she know or not?
Is she in her testimony referring to that incident with Hosty? That she copied the address,but didn't 'note' it in her mind.

Edited by Trygve V. Jensen, 04 June 2007 - 09:45 AM.


#12 John Dolva

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 10:42 AM

Mark Carter' : "One of the most bizzare instances during John Kennedy's assassination was the testimony of Dallas Police detective Roger Craig while he was examining a bullet mark on the pavement near the triple underpass."


some points:

"examining a bullet mark on the pavement near the underpass"

-as this topic* explains there is a very good likely hood that the mark is a trochoid strike of a wheel rim's steel/lead wheel balance part and not a bullet strike at all. Tague did not make anything of being hit until Walther pointed out blood on his cheek. This was on the left side of his face and his testimony can be read as him looking with the left of his face towards the TSBD. There is also an indication that he has a patch of tissue covering a possible shaving cut.

Theoretically, increased blood pressure and a flush of sweat (salt) plus wind can cause a recent cut to sting. IOW for Tague this was a 'moment in the sun' where going along with suggestions led to an unwitting distortion of the case from day one. The number of books and articles and posts that refer to the Tague event as written in stone makes it a recurrent problem.

Given that a new analysis of bullet fragments have recently been done, IMO this is an area that should be scientifically addressed now.

This curb damage has almost universally been taken as significant and unchallenged.

IMO there is a real possibility that it never happened and was just one of many similar curb damages caused by vehicles wheel rims rubbing up against the curb. The trochoids clearly visible coincides with this as a viable theory of what hapened there.

* http://educationforu...h...ost&p=79067

Walther can arguably be seen as a dubious character.

-What the accepance of the curb damage as being from a bullet does is that it defines trajectories. This IMO is a possible mistake. The curb cut out should have the lead component rediagnosed and the trochoids examined to determine the diameter of the wheel that may have caused it. IE the shot that missed may be part of the conspiracy.

(Please comment on this in the topic referred to rather than divert this one.)

Edited by John Dolva, 04 June 2007 - 10:44 AM.


#13 Mark Knight

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 09:26 PM

"IE the shot that missed may be part of the conspiracy."

And THAT may be the most significant nugget to come from this thread.

#14 Miles Scull

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 10:43 PM

One of the most bizzare instances during John Kennedy's assassination was the testimony of Dallas Police detective Roger Craig while he was examining a bullet mark on the pavement near the triple underpass. While over by the underpass he witnessed a cream colored Nash Station wagon with a luggage rack moving down the street very slowly when he saw a man who he later claimed was Lee Harvey Oswald enter the passenger side of the vehicle and drive off. His exact words are.


Mr. CRAIG - I saw a light-colored station wagon, driving real slow, coming west on Elm Street from Houston. Uh-- actually, it was nearly in line with him. And the driver was leaning to his right looking up the hill at the man running down.
Mr. BELIN - Uh-huh.
Mr. CRAIG - And the station wagon stopped almost directly across from me. And--uh--the man continued down the hill and got in the station wagon. And I attempted to cross the street. I wanted to talk to both of them. But the---uh--traffic was so heavy I couldn't get across the street. And--uh--they were gone before I could---
Mr. BELIN - Where did the station wagon head?
Mr. CRAIG - West on Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN - Under the triple underpass?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Could you describe the man that you saw running down toward the station wagon?
Mr. CRAIG - Oh, he was a white male in his twenties, five nine, five eight, something like that; about 140 to 150; had kind of medium brown sandy hair--you know, it was like it'd been blown--you know, he'd been in the wind or something--it was all wild-looking; had on--uh--blue trousers--
Mr. BELIN - What shade of blue? Dark blue, medium or light?
Mr. CRAIG - No; medium, probably; I'd say medium. And, a--uh--light tan shirt, as I remember it.
Mr. BELIN - Anything else about him?
Mr. CRAIG - No; nothing except that he looked like he was in an awful hurry.


Then later in his testimony Det. Craig describes the car.

Mr. BELIN - What kind and what color station wagon was it?
Mr. CRAIG - It was light colored--almost--uh--it looked white to me.
Mr. BELIN - What model or make was it?
Mr. CRAIG - I thought it was a Nash.
Mr. BELIN - Why would you think it was a Nash?
Mr. CRAIG - Because it had a built-in luggage rack on 'the top. And--uh--at the time, this was the only type car I could fit with that type luggage rack.
Mr. BELIN - A Nash Rambler-is that what you're referring to?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes; with a rack on the the back portion of the car, you know.
Mr. BELIN - Did it have a Texas license plate, or not?
Mr. CRAIG - It had the same color. I couldn't see the--uh--name with the numbers on it. I could just barely make them out. They were at an angle where I couldn't make the numbers of the--uh--any of the writing on it. But---uh---I'm sure it was a Texas plate.
Mr. BELIN - Anything else about this incident that you can recall?
Mr. CRAIG - No; not that---

Then later at the Police Station after Lee Harvey Oswald's arrest Det. Craig identifies Oswald as the same person that he saw entering the Station Wagon in Dealy Plaza earlier.



Mr. CRAIG - I drove up to Fritz' office about, oh, after 5--about 5:30 or something like that--and--uh--talked to Captain Fritz and told him what I had saw. And he took me in his office---I believe it was his office---it was a little office, and had the suspect setting in a chair behind a desk---beside the desk. And another gentleman, I didn't know him, he was sitting in another chair to my left as I walked in the office.
And Captain Fritz asked me was this the man I saw--and I said, "Yes," it was.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Will you describe the man you saw in Captain Fritz' office?
Mr. CRAIG - Oh, he was sitting down but--uh--he had the same medium brown hair; it was still--well, it was kinda wild looking; he was slender, and--uh-- what 1 could toll of him sitting there, he was--uh---short. By that, I mean not--myself, I'm five eleven--he was shorter than I was. And--uh--fairly light build.
Mr. BELIN - Could you see his trousers?
Mr. CRAIG - No; I couldn't see his trousers at all.
Mr. BELIN - What about his shirt?
Mr. CRAIG - I believe, as close as I can remember, a T-shirt--a white T-shirt.
Mr. BELIN - All right. But you didn't see him in a lineup? You just saw him sitting there?
Mr. CRAIG - No; he was sitting there by himself in a chair--off to one side.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Then, what did Captain Fritz say and what did you say and what did the suspect say?
Mr. CRAIG - Captain Fritz then asked him about the---uh---he said, "What about this station wagon?"
And the suspect interrupted him and said, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine"---I believe is what he said. "Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."
And--uh--Captain Fritz then told him, as close as I can remember, that, "All we're trying to do is find out what happened, and this man saw you leave from the scene."
And the suspect again interrupted Captain Fritz and said, "I told you people I did." And--uh--yeah--then, he said--then he continued and he said, "Everybody will know who I am now."
And he was leaning over the desk. At this time, he had risen partially out of the chair and leaning over the desk, looking directly at Captain Fritz.
Mr. BELIN - What was he wearing-or could you see the color of his trousers as he leaned over the desk?
Mr. CRAIG - No; because he never--he just leaned up, you know, sort of forward--not actually up, just out of his chair like that (indicating) forward.
Mr. BELIN - Then, did you say anything more?
Mr. CRAIG - No; I then left.
Mr. BELIN - Well, in other words, the only thing you ever said was, "This was the man,"--or words to that effect?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes.


So later on Det. Craig describes how Buddy Walters went to Ruth Paine's house and saw the station wagon parked in Ruth Paines driveway.




Mr. BELIN - Anything else in connection with the assassination that you think might be important that we haven't discussed here?
Mr. CRAIG - No; except--uh--except for the fact that it came out later that Mrs. Paine does own a station wagon and--uh--it has a luggage rack on top. And this came out, of course, later, after I got back to the office. I didn't know about this. Buddy Walthers brought it up. I believe they went by the house and the car was parked in the driveway.


Where things start getting real strange is where Buddy Walters after going to Ruth Paine's home describes this encounter.


Mr. WALTHERS. Yes; and I took our officer, Harry Weatherford, and we met Officer Adamcik that works for the city and Officer Rose and another one of their officers, but I don't recall his name right now--at this address in Irving and when we went to the door, what turned out to be Mrs. Paine just as soon as we stepped on the porch, she said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you, and we didn't have any trouble at all--we just went right on in and stared asking her--at that time it didn't appear that her or Mrs. Oswald, or Marina, who came up carrying one of the babies in the living room--it didn't appear that they knew that Oswald had been arrested at all--the way they talked.
Mr. LIEBELER. How do you account for the fact that Mrs. Paine said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you?"
Mr. WALTHERS. I don't know--to this day, I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you sure that's what she said?
Mr. WALTHERS. I know that's what she said.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Paine said that?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes, sir; she said, "Come on in, we have been expecting you."


So what is going on here? Why would she say that if she didn't know that Lee Harvey Oswald had been arrested yet? The information about Oswald being arrested had not even been on television so far at that point. If somebody called Ruth Paine maybe a little bit earlier and told her about the assassination . It still doesn't explain why she was pretending that she didn't know about it as Walters describes above? What is equally strange is when Det. Adamchick( who was there also) describes how Linnie Mae Randle shows up right on cue with the "curtain rod" story to make sure that "all" the police detectives could hear about it!



Mr. ADAMCIK. Coming back, Mrs. Frazier, I believe it was, drove up to the house as I was coming back with--no, it was Mrs. Bill Randle. She (Mrs. Randle) was a neighbor there and she was driving up to the house, so I asked her whether she knew anything about what had happened, and whether she had seen Lee Oswald, and she did tell me that Lee Oswald rode to work with her brother, which is Wesley Frazier, who was staying with her, and he rode to work with him that morning. She told me that she saw--she was up early in the morning and was drinking coffee, and saw Lee Harvey Oswald go across the front yard, across the yard carrying like a long package wrapped in something, carrying it from the Paine house to Wesley's car.
Mr. BELIN. Did she say how he was carrying the package?
Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she didn't. I think we got an affidavit. In fact, I know we did, but I didn't take it.
Mr. BELIN. Did she say about how long the package was?
Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she said it was long and wrapped in a paper or a box. That is all I remember her saying.


It seems that we have a little problem here in river city. What is going on here? Well when Wesley Frazier testified to the Commission he told them that people in this neighborhood kind of keep to themselves. They don't associate much!

Their is another small problem with Linnie Mae Randle's account of the events mentioned above. She says that she saw Oswald walk across her yard but the next day she told the FBI.

RANDLE stated that about 7:15 a.m., November 22, 1963, she looked out of a window of her residence and observed LEE HARVEY OSWALD walking up her driveway and saw him put a long brown package, approximately 3 feet by 6 inches, in the back seat area of WESLEY FRAZIER's 1954 black Chevrolet four door automobile. Thereafter, she observed OSWALD walk to the front, or entrance area, of her residence where he waited for FRAZIER to come out of the house and give him a ride to work.

WHICH ONE IS IT? WALKING ACROSS HER YARD OR WALKING UP HER DRIVEWAY?

Another problem in Linnie Mae Randal's account appears when Westly Frazier testifies before the Commission that he and his mother saw Oswald just appear in the window.

Mr. FRAZIER - I was sitting there eating my breakfast there, so sitting there, I usually talk to my little nieces, you know, they have them cartoons on for a while and we usually talk a little bit back and forth while eating breakfast and I was just finishing my coffee there and my sister, you know, was working over there around, you know the sink there, and she was fixing my lunch so she was somewhere around there over on the cabinets fixing the cabinets and mother just happened to glance up and saw this man, you know, who was Lee looking in the window for me and she said, "Who is that?"
And I said, "That is Lee," and naturally he just walked around and so I thought he just walked around there on the carport right there close to the door and so I told her I had to go, so I went in there and brushed my teeth right quick and come through there and I usually have my coat laying somewhere on the chair and picked it up and put it on and by that time my sister had my lunch, you know, in a sack and sitting over there on the washer where I picked it up right there by the door and I just walked on out and we got in the car.

So according to Frazier Linnie May Randle just happened to "glance up" as Oswald just happened to appear in the window! So she never saw him walk across her yard or up her driveway did she? She was sitting at the table having breakfast with her son. Frazier also testified to the Commission that Oswald did not take any lunch that day but when they got to the Texas School Book Depositoy building he saw Oswald walk in the building with a package of "curtain rods" but when Jack Dougherty saw Oswald enter the building he said that Oswald was carrying nothing in his hands! So where were the curtain rods?

This whole thing sounds a little shakey to me?


Mark,

The WCR altered Craig's deposition to hide the true facts & to concoct the LN rubbish. Craig writes:


I first saw my testimony in January of 1968 when I looked at the 26 volumes which belonged to Penn Jones. My alleged statement was included. The following are some of the changes in my testimony:


Arnold Rowland told me that he saw two men on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository 15 minutes before the President arrived: one was a Negro, who was pacing back and forth by the southwest window. The other was a white man in the southeast corner, with a rifle equipped with a scope, and that a few minutes later he looked back and only the white man was there. In the Warren Commission: Both were white, both were pacing in front of the southwest corner and when Rowland looked back, both were gone;

I said the Rambler station wagon was light green. The Warren Commission: Changed to a white station wagon;

I said the driver of the Station Wagon had on a tan jacket. The Warren Commission: A white jacket;

I said the license plates on the Rambler were not the same color as Texas plates. The Warren Commission: Omitted the not -- omitted but one word, an important one, so that it appeared that the license plates were the same color as Texas plates;

I said that I got a good look at the driver of the Rambler. The Warren Commission: I did not get a good look at the Rambler. (In Captain Fritz's office) I had said that Fritz had said to Oswald, "This man saw you leave" (indicating me). Oswald said, "I told you people I did." Fritz then said, "Now take it easy, son, we're just trying to find out what happened", and then (to Oswald), "What about the car?" to which Oswald replied, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to drag her into this." Fritz said car -- station wagon was not mentioned by anyone but Oswald. (I had told Fritz over the telephone that I saw a man get into a station wagon, before I went to the Dallas Police Department and I had also described the man. This is when Fritz asked me to come there.) Oswald then said, "Everybody will know who I am now;" the Warren Commission: Stated that the last statement by Oswald was made in a dramatic tone. This was not so. The Warren Commission also printed, "NOW everybody will know who I am", transposing the now. Oswald's tone and attitude was one of disappointment. If someone were attempting to conceal his identity as Deputy and he was found out, exposed -- his cover blown, his reaction would be dismay and disappointment. This was Oswald's tone and attitude -- disappointment at being exposed!

http://www.ratical.o.../JFK/WTKaP.html

#15 Miles Scull

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 10:44 PM

dupe

Edited by Miles Scull, 13 June 2007 - 01:22 AM.





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