Jim Hargrove

Oh brother. They are innocent unless you or someone else can prove they are guilty, which is a concept deeply ingrained in our system of justice and our sense of common decency. As for the rest of your post, nothing in it persuades that the call was anything other than what it appeared to be. Someone, probably Elizabeth Bentley, witnessed a young boy going by the name Lee Harvey Oswald, or perhaps even Harvey Lee Oswald, under the care of people who appeared to be his Hungarian father and uncle, probably Emil Gardos and Fred Blair.

Cute, but I’m sure you are aware that the point was that service in WWII and the Reserves hardly makes Mr. Tippit of Connecticut—or may father—a spy. You seem so suspicious of the CT Tippits that you said, “I would not have put any faith in Tina Tippet explaining to you John Kowalski any more than what was already in the 1963 FBI report.” How do you know that? Do you really want to discourage original research. Tina Tippit told John Kowalski that her mother had taken notes of several sessions with the anonymous caller. You really want to discourage an attempt to find those notes, even if it is a long shot? UPDATE -- I see you've addressed the issue of John Kowalski's research while I was posting. I'll get to that when time permits.

And none of this offers any evidence that would prompt your question, “BTW, might RFK have wanted Oswald silenced after 11/22?"

And, of course, you misquote me. After pointing out that the third source was behind a paywall, I said, “Nowhere have I seen ‘We must get a hold of Oswald.’” If it is in the Post article as you indicate, fine, you were right. But you have already misquoted me in the paragraph above, and so I will try to see if for myself. [emphasis added]

Very true, but from what I’ve managed to read, Matt has certainly posted a lot of information, but I have to argue with a number of his conclusions. For example, in THIS POST he writes: Now -- how did Daniel P. Moynihan on 11/22/63 know "We must get a hold of Oswald?" Asked for sources, Matt offers a Harvard Crimson article and another identically worded newspaper article in which Moynihan merely expresses well-founded concern for Oswald’s safety in the immediate aftermath of the assassination. A third source is behind a paywall. Nowhere have I seen “We must get a hold of Oswald.” In THIS POST he writes: BTW, might RFK have wanted Oswald silenced after 11/22? Something to think about. Quite an accusation, disguised as a question, and without evidence. Since we now know Ruby was more involved in the assassination of JFK than was previously thought, it seems highly improbable that RFK would have anything to do with Ruby’s instructions. In THIS POST he writes: At the most basic level, for now, the point is this: The Tippet's of CT are much closer to TX than they have let on and they are much closer to covert operations (AF reconnaissance certainly and possibly too the Flying Tigers, eg) than they have let on. Like my father, J.D. Tippit of Connecticut was a WWII veteran and a reservist. This hardly makes either man a spook. In THIS POST he wrote: If this is correct, that the Tippets of CT sold out Elizabeth Bentley, I would not have put any faith in Tina Tippet explaining to you John Kowalski any more than what was already in the 1963 FBI report. And all the more now, since Tina Tippet is deceased. The Tippits of Connecticut DID NOT sell out Elizabeth Bentley. They did what any responsible citizens should do after receiving such a call. The FBI knew all about Emile Kardos/Emil Gardos as well as Elizabeth Bentley. All had been on the radar for years. This attempt to vilify the Tippits of Connecticut seems odd, until we examine the next quote from Matt. Also, I’m shocked that Matt seems so opposed to the important efforts by John Kowalski to obtain contemporaneous notes Mrs. Tippit made of the call(s) from the anonymous caller. Don’t get discouraged John! And in THIS POST Matt writes: uh ... because obviously she [Bentley] is linking the Tippits of CT to Tippits of TX and knows some things about Oswald's back story that could blow the entire assassination story. The Tippits of CT are very much involved in perpetuating that story. The Tippits of Connecticut WERE NOT “very much involved in perpetuating the story.” By 11/30/1963 the basics of LHO’s biography were well known. Pointing to an LHO living with a Hungarian “father and uncle” hardly backs the Official Story. It points, clearly and directly, to a second LHO!

I’ve stopped reading the flood of posts from Matt for two reasons. First, in my opinion the documents he presents often do not support the statements and opinions he makes. Second, a number of his most recent posts contain X (Twitter) widgets that the highly regarded Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) has labeled as potential “trackers.” I have long used the EFF’s Privacy Badger Chrome extension (for Linux) to block the X widgets. Here’s what the EFF says on it’s Privacy Badger Web page (emphasis added by me). The latest version of Privacy Badger replaces embedded tweets with click-to-activate placeholders. This is part of Privacy Badger's widget replacement feature, where certain potentially useful widgets are blocked and then replaced with placeholders. This protects privacy by default while letting you restore the original widget whenever you want it or need it for the page to function. Websites often include external elements such as social media buttons, comments sections, and video players. Although potentially useful, these “widgets” often track your behavior. The tracking happens regardless of whether you click on the widget. If you see a widget, the widget sees you back. This is where Privacy Badger's widget replacement comes in. When blocking certain social buttons and other potentially useful widgets, Privacy Badger replaces them with click-to-activate placeholders. You will not be tracked by these replacements unless you explicitly choose to activate them. Read more HERE.

Thanks so much for doing this, John. We're keeping our fingers crossed.

It sure would be! Note, though, that Corvina Press of Budapest first published both “Carpathian Rhapsody” and “Circus Maximus” in the very same year—1963. Grace Blair Gardos (and undoubtedly Emil Gardos) were associated with the publisher (via Grace’s translation of “Carpathian Rhapsody”) at the time both books were published. These were surely obscure titles in the U.S., both then and now. Are we to believe this is all a coincidence? Haven't been able to find any specifics about others associated with the Hungarian publication of "Circus Maximus" (it was also apparently published in Germany and elsewhere) but I'll ask Geo if he knows anything else about this.

To Matt Cloud…. Thanks for all this new material. I’ll read it all again asap, but a couple of preliminary questions: In this post you wrote: Now -- how did Daniel P. Moynihan on 11/22/63 know "We must get a hold of Oswald?" In an admittedly quick read, I didn’t see this provocative statement in the docs you posted. Can you cite a source for the quote? In this post you wrote, “BTW, might RFK have wanted Oswald silenced after 11/22? Something to think about.” The research of John Armstrong and others has shown that Jack Ruby was almost certainly far more involved in the assassination of JFK than we previously thought. I sincerely doubt RFK put Ruby up to anything in this case. Also, you frequently spell the surname “Tippit” as well as “Tippet.” Both the Connecticut and Texas Tippit names were spelled the same, as far as I know. I’ve made the same mistake, so I’m betting these are just typos, right? Finally, portions of many of the docs you reproduced here have excerpts highlighted in red. Were those highlights made by you specifically for these posts, or were at least some of them produced in a different context?

Earlier today I asked Geo Kozma if he could provide information we could all see about a relationship between Emil Gardos and Corvina Press, the Hungarian publisher of “Circus Maximus,” a book that, according to Heritage Auctions, was in LHO’s possessions near the end of his life. Geo responded that I should look up a Hungarian book entitled “Kárpáti rapszódia (Carpathian Rhapsody).” Several hits immediately came up using the English translation. According to TheModernNovel.org, “The Corvina Press translation, long since out of print but not too difficult to obtain, is, frankly, not a great translation but still quite readable….” First English translation 1963 by Corvina Press Translated by Grace Blair Gardos Goodreads.com says: This two volume English translation was published and printed in 1963 by Corvina Press in Hungary. The book was translated into English by Grace Blair Gardos, the American wife of Hungarian Emil Gardos. Geo also said that he doubted Grace had the skills to translate the book, so we might assume that Emil helped her. And so let’s get this straight. The anonymous caller said that the man we can surely identify as Emil Gardos was the Hungarian father of “Lee Harvey Oswald.” Emil’s wife was the American Grace Blair Gardos, who was the translator of an (obscure in America) book by the same Hungarian publisher of a book allegedly in the possession of “Lee Harvey Oswald” near the end of his life. Pretty interesting, eh?

John, Just got off the phone with John A. and we discussed your ideas for some time. John was absolutely convinced that you would be the best person to make the call because you had previous contact with Tina and might not come across as a complete stranger. If she was unaware of your previous communication with her mother, you could at least explain what had happened. You might tell her the current status of the research on this matter and explain that a fellow in Budapest is currently trying to help us with it. John thought it would be important to try to explain to her the importance of the call and to ask her not to throw any of her grandmother’s old paperwork away without checking to see if it has something to do with the anonymous caller from so long ago. I think John A’s thoughts on this make sense. Do you agree, and is there anything else any of us can do to help? Good luck!

John, Interesting ideas! If Rob Reiner could be persuaded to make the call, my bet is it would have the biggest chance of success, but only if the granddaughter understood it wasn't a prank. I'm not sure if Rob even remembers me, but he does know John, and so it would surely be best to start with that introduction to the potential ask. OK if I forward your post to John to get his take on this?

Geo sent a reply to our question about “Gardos” vs Gardosh.” Here’s part of what he said: Oh it is simple...hi Jim. In Hunnian we use the S = sh And for S we us SZ. So i use * Budapesht * as we pronounce S= SH Yes of course you may put up my stuff... EVEN THIS as I omit the name I fear to mention publicly: The things I do not want to mention publicly… Some quick web research indicates that the word “Hunnian” is not used much in English, but it seems to mean “Hungarian,” at least from what I can tell. Under “The things I do not want to mention publicly,” Geo writes nine numbered paragraphs, and so I want to be careful here, but it is surely safe to say that he refers to “Gardos/h” a number of times. Therefore, “Gardosh” is probably just the Hunnian (Hungarian) way to refer to “Gardos.” Anyone see a more likely interpretation? If so, this leaves us with the possibility of the following remarkable coincidence: An edition of a Hungarian book published in 1962/1963 was allegedly in the possession of the Russian-speaking Oswald at the time he was arrested and killed. This book was published by someone in Hungary (Budapest) with the same last name as the Hungarian in America who may have been Oswald’s caretaker for a relatively brief period.

John, Has it been four or five years since you last spoke with Tina Tippet? If so, do you think it would be wise if you or someone else here contacted once more to see if there is any way to acquire copies of those notes?

Paul, I read Geo’s note as saying that by the 1960s virtually all artists in Hungary and probably other parts of Eastern Europe had seen and felt enough of the Soviets to dislike them. In other notes, Geo has expressed his feelings about the Russian state quite clearly and negatively. In my very limited visits to former Eastern Block countries and nations bordering Russia, I felt a similar consensus. In my total of two days in St. Petersburg, Russia, I got the feeling the people there still disliked the Germans more than anyone else. The potential relationships of “Gardosh” and “Gardos” seems like the major question right now. I’ve sent another note to Geo about it, but it is nearly midnight in Budapest, so we’ll probably have to wait.

I'm confident Geo will approve of me quoting his full answer here which, if Gardos=Gardosh, seems kind of stunning. Here it is: Hi Jim the old 1947 drawing that somone has put on in 2019 (David Josephs I think - or maybe Paul Joliffe ) was from somewhere else not this book ---in this 62 -63 booklet, in the 60s there was no artist left who would root for Communism that turned out to be just a Police state stifling any individual initiative - hence pepe were starving. Of course they never promised anything else...except the false belief that eating the rich will make the poor less poor. they are like steinberg in the new yorker - abstract...tongue-in-cheek humour, clearly silently anti Communist The point in it for us is not the content. But that the artist was a family relative of Gardosh [ who worked then at Corvina] and the name Gardosh is also up in an Oswald family [ one among hundreds but still there as the Tippit Call also did say...] So they must have had a way [ maybe by diplomatic post] to send that book. My twopence is that my Uncle at the Rand working with his former student Kissinger and McNamara and Cyrus Vance and Bob Kenbedy could have the ways and the clout to be a middle man to send the book to link the distant relatives Oswald and Gardos. Because on a personal level people do not hate an opponent 24/24 as they are also just family...and they could not be aware of the tragic future...certainly my Uncle could not. If Gardos had infos...he might have tried to counteract others and our task now is to see the codes he used to send messages by the books he sent. The in-law of my Uncle Karl Mannheim had a Memory Card system with all cards having a letter of the ABC That is a simple method to hide words into a bridge game report. Just got back from an appointment and received Geo's note above. My first question involves whether "Gardosh" is another version of "Gardos?" Anyone know?

BTW, Geo just emailed me copies of some of the interior pages from Circus Maximus. Surprisingly to me, the cartoon captions are in English, and many are quite funny. Here’s one (cropped to preserve bandwidth and hopefully preserve “fair use”).

It would be helpful to find a specific reference to doppelgangers (or similar terminology) in Dulles’s “The Craft of Intelligence.” I spent a half hour or so trying to find a searchable version of the book, without success. One of the problems I have convincing myself that the Hungarian book was owned by Harvey Oswald and suppressed by the FBI is that so often the FBI just made evidence it didn’t like disappear. As one of many, many examples, all the original NYC school records simply disappeared while in FBI possession, despite the best efforts of Judge Florence Kelley to find out what happened to them. Why would the FBI allow Marina to keep “Circus Maximus” if they understood the significance of the Hungarian connection? Thanks, Paul, for the link to the news articles on Bentley et al. Fascinating that Bentley apparently said she got “all kinds of information from her strategic contacts in the Office of Strategic Services headed by Gen. William J. Donovan” and had all that information on John Abt. Since both Frank Wisner and Allen Dulles were active in the OSS, it is easy to see how an apparent CIA project could have had roots prior to the Agency’s inception. It’s also easy to understand that the Abt/”Oswald” connection could have concerned Bentley, but I’m not sure why that would have prompted her to make that call to the Tippits of Connecticut, especially suggesting all the Commie connections. Does that make sense?

John K: Megathanks for the MK/ULTRA articles. They reference events a few years later than we are examining for the earliest Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald's appearances in the U.S., but no doubt Americans who approved of things like MK/ULTRA were well entrenched in the US Government by the mid-1940s. Does anyone doubt that? Paul J: I’d completely forgotten the Elizabeth Bentley info you had posted years ago. Megathanks for reminding us of it. You make a great case that she may have been the anonymous caller. Isn’t it fascinating that Ms. Bentely appeared before HUAC just a year after Jack Ruby did? Small world, eh? Do we seriously believe that the Gerald Ford Library referenced a “false document” about Ruby and HUAC from 1947? See paragraph #1 below.

Geo, As the late John Butler pointed out in THIS POST, Circus Maximus by the Hungarian author Tibor Kajan was was allegedly found among Oswald’s possessions. Here is the description from Heritage Auctions: [John F. Kennedy]: Lee Harvey Oswald's Personal Books. Two books owned by Lee Harvey Oswald. Most telling is a paperback copy of the "Communist Manifesto" (5" x 7", Chicago, Charles H. Kerr & Company, 60 pp., 1946). The other is a copy of Tibor Kajan's "Circus Maximus" (5" x 7.5", colored boards, Budapest, Corvina Press, 1963). Wear to corners of spine. A delightful and whimsical book of cartoons directed toward juveniles. These were included in a cleanout of personal papers requested by Marina Oswald following the assassination and given to her personal lawyer. Accompanied by a letter of provenance. However, we have a number of USG and DPD prepared lists of Oswald’s possessions, and, despite a "letter of provenance" listed above, I don’t recall ever seeing this book listed there. I’m not at all convinced it is legit, although it may have slipped through the cracks or have been suppressed because of the Hungarian connection.

While we’re talking about Robert, it is interesting to note that even long ago Jim Garrison and his staff believed that Robert was hiding something about the identity of his “brother.” During a lengthy examination of Oswald’s multiple heights (centering around 5’ 9” and 5’ 11”) the DA’s chief investigator, Lou Ivon, wrote in a memo: If you want to know what I really think, it is that Robert knew this returning defector was not really Lee and this is what his problem was the night of the assassination when he found it necessary to take such a long drive to think things out. He knew things were far more complicated than they appeared on the surface. And about those heights. Notice, for example that in a 1959 Marine Corps physical examination, Oswald was listed as 5’ 11”. But measured on the slab in 1963, the dead Oswald was two inches shorter. These were professional measurements.

Again, Robert was clearly trying to hide the specifics of the Oswald Project, of which he was part. But he sometimes go confused and made mistakes. One of those slips involved Stripling School. From our website: Robert Oswald knew HARVEY Oswald In 1948 Robert Oswald enrolled in the 9th grade at Stripling Junior High School in Ft. Worth (1948-49 school year). Six years later, in 1954, HARVEY Oswald enrolled in the 9th grade at Stripling JHS. Two years later, during the summer and fall of 1956 Robert Oswald, HARVEY Oswald, and the short, heavy-set Marguerite Oswald impostor were living in an apartment at 4936 Collinwood in Ft. Worth, not far from Stripling JHS. Google Maps While living together in this small apartment, it is the author's opinion that Robert and HARVEY discussed their attendance, teachers, and experiences at nearby Stripling JHS. The would explain how Robert Oswald learned that HARVEY had attended Stripling JHS, and would also explain how Robert was able to tell the Warren Commission that his "brother" had attended Stripling. NOTE: It is worth noting that during the summer of 1956 Robert's mother, the tall, nice-looking Marguerite Claverie Oswald, was still living in New Orleans and working at Goldrings Dept. Store. LEE Oswald was also in New Orleans, working under the supervision of Frank DiBenedetto at the Gerard F. Tujague Company. Late that summer Marguerite Claverie Oswald relocated from New Orleans to Ft. Worth and moved into an apartment at 3830 W. 6th, not far from 4936 Collinwood. While in the Marines her son, LEE Oswald (not HARVEY), resided with her when on leave from the Marine Corps. HARVEY Oswald joined the Marines in October, 1956, left Fort Worth, and arrived at Camp Pendleton in California. One month later, in November, Robert Oswald married Vada Mercer, and the Marguerite Oswald impostor was now alone in her apartment at 4936 Collinwood. During the time that Robert and Vada were dating, the summer and fall of 1956, Robert never introduced his future wife to HARVEY Oswald (supposedly his "brother") nor to the Marguerite Oswald impostor (supposedly his "mother"). This makes perfect sense, because HARVEY Oswald was not Robert's brother and the short, heavy-set Marguerite Oswald impostor was not Robert's mother. Robert Oswald clearly participated knowingly in the Oswald Project, which began around the time the Central Intelligence Agency was created (1947). This CIA project began by allowing a very young Russian-speaking youth to share the identity of a young American boy--Lee Harvey Oswald. While growing up both boys--American born LEE Harvey Oswald and Russian speaking HARVEY Lee Oswald--would live in the same city, often attend the same schools, and at the age of 17 both young men would join the US Marine Corps. The goal was for HARVEY Oswald to assume the identity of LEE Oswald and "defect" to the Soviet Union, where he could secretly use his Russian language ability to collect information on behalf of the CIA. Robert Oswald likely met the Russian speaking HARVEY Oswald in New York City in the fall of 1953. Three years later Robert, HARVEY, and the Marguerite Oswald impostor lived together at 4936 Collinwood in Fort Worth, TX, from June thru October, 1956. In 1958 Robert took a photo of his real brother, the taller, huskier LEE Oswald, which he published in his book titled LEE, a Portrait of Lee Harvey Oswald. One year later Robert took a photo of 19 year old HARVEY Oswald, only a few days before left the United States and "defected" to the Soviet Union.

I just excerpted Shuskevich who said about Oswald's Russian: "He didn't appear to know a lot. He didn't appear to want to know a lot." For the third time today I'll ask, How did Oswald learn Russian before ever going to the Soviet Union? As James Norwood wrote on this forum in 2017: Regarding Oswald's exam score on the Department of Army's Russian language proficiency test, Lt. Col. Alison Folsom provided a breakdown of the results for the Warren Commission. There were three components to the exam, suggesting that this was a comprehensive test. Oswald's scores were as follows: understanding (-5), reading (+4), writing (+3), with the composite +2 indicating that Oswald answered two more questions correctly than those that he missed on the exam. So, the young man scored better than 50% on this challenging exam. Another factor needs to be considered, based on Col. Folsom's testimony: Oswald was also administered tests in cognitive abilities in English, including reading and vocabulary; arithmetical computation; and pattern analysis. His scores on these tests were all rated as “poor.” Oswald was even administered a “radio code test,” in which Lt. Colonel Folsom indicated that Oswald’s score was in the bottom, or the “lowest” in results. For those who claim that Oswald had an innate intelligence that permitted him to learn Russian by self-study and "immersion," how can one explain the all-around negative scores he received on basic cognitive abilities? English/German language instructor Mathias Bauman posted on the forum also in 2017: ... Oswald managed to reach level L2/R2 in Russian - which would have qualified him to be a language expert in the military - by self-study only. Why don't you show us the material he used for his studies - I'd like to recommend them to my American friend who's just barely passed his L1/R1 exam after 300 lessons of training. Mr. Baumann also wrote: .... here and on other threads I've shown that - the target level of foreign language tests in the US military is that of a native speaker - Russian is one of the most difficult languages in the world, only the Asian languages are harder to learn - Oswald got about half the answers right on that test, which would've qualified him to be a language analyst. - people of average intelligence normally need hundreds of lessons to reach that level - Oswald was not considerably more intelligent than an average person. Again, how did Oswald learn Russian before ever setting foot in the Soviet Union? In the Marines, he obtained the same scores in Russian language exams and in English tests. How?

Which is easily explained by understanding that Robert Oswald was a part of the Oswald Project.

Are you ever going to explain to us how Oswald knew Russian so well before ever setting foot in the Soviet Union? (See my last post on the previous page.) Shushkevich told an interviewer that Oswald seemed to have little interest in learning Russian and Shuskevich thought his real job was "to see how much Russian Oswald really knew...."